1510 – Mental Health in Business with Malorie Nicole

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0:55With us right now, it's Mallory Nicole. Mallory, you are found on the web at mallory-nicole.com. You work with high-level leaders. And one thing that kind of initiated this podcast appearance was I had posted on Facebook about, you know, wondering just kind of like, you know, how can we assess if we've got burnout or if we are just like legitimately depressed. And again, I know that you work with a lot of high-level leaders who experience perhaps all of the above and kind of help them get to a sustainable point and help them thrive. But so Mallory, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much for having me.

1:46I'm excited to talk with you. Yeah, we'll tell, before we kind of get into it, share just a little bit more about your work. Yeah, so I would consider myself a trusted performance specialist. I really help CEOs maximize thriving success by driving sustainable growth. So in a way that a business coach is going to look at the operations of the business, part of what I do is that, and we go deeper into looking at more of the operations of self-identity and behavior and why you do the things that you do in the way that you do them. Yeah. Well, look, I'm thrilled to be super transparent, you know, in our own conversation here, because I think what initiated this was, you know, I'm not working 80 hours a week, but I feel like, you know, the hours that I'm on, you know, I'm definitely, you know, it's, I think there are certain jobs and, you know, and again, when you're in a leadership role, oftentimes, you know, it's not like you're just mowing a lawn, for example, which I actually love to do.

2:55I wouldn't say mowing a lawn, but I've got an herb garden, like I work, you know, plant my trees, you know, I like that type of work. Like I like that's therapy for me. I really enjoy that, you know, either listen to nothing or listen to music or listen to an audio book while I'm doing that. And that's like something I really look forward to is just kind of those, you know, just something that's a little bit more relaxing on the brain because I don't do relaxing on the brain kind of activity. And I suspect many of your clients don't as well. Exactly. Exactly. You were spot on. Most of the people I work with don't do a lot of those.

3:33Let's, let's turn, let's slow the mind down or turn it off. In other words, and it is something that a lot of people struggle with is how do I have a high-performing business that requires a lot of energy and a lot of output and how do I be really present in the times that I'm not working? Well, you know, and kind of the question I got to and I wonder if other people, you know, you know, question this as well is, am I truly like, you know, and again, I want to be careful about kind of therapeutic or, you know, kind of therapy words or mental health words, because, you know, we're not necessarily talking about that.

4:17But am I, you know, just am I burnt up because of work? Am I just clinically, you know, maybe I need to, you know, chat with a professional because maybe I'm just clinically depressed or anxiety. And yeah, the work might be a factor in it, but there might be something larger. You know, one thing I did find is, you know, is imagine if, and this is someone had posed this question, right? And they said, okay so let's say you were to take a solid like two weeks off of work and here's the thing though like you don't have to stress about like your business there's going to be absolutely zero impact to your business because i think you know that's part of the you know the kind of fear of taking too much time off is like there's going to be consequences but let's assume in this imaginary scenario where there's absolutely no consequence to you leaving your position income's going to be fine, blah, blah, blah, blah.

5:14You know, it's like, how, you know, let's say four or five days into your vacation, how do you, and you're just, don't have to worry about, you're not checking your emails, nothing. You're like, you were just completely unplugged. How do you imagine your mental health being that far into it? And I think that, you know, the thing that the author was bringing up is like, if you feel like that you would be significantly improved, you know, into of that, it's probably, you know, pretty related to your work. And you, yeah, you might be just burnt out. Whereas if you said, no, I would still feel miserable.

5:54Okay. That's probably a little bit more now where, you know, we can't just say, well, it's just because of work. There might be deeper stuff. And I'm sorry to kind of presuppose that, but I'd love your take on kind of what I shared there. No, totally. And it's, I appreciate your kind of, Hey, this isn't black and white. Let's look at all the moving parts, because I think that's, that's something that I struggle with sometimes in my own expression of sharing the work that I do because it isn't black and white. Everybody's situation is different. And, you know, there might be some clients that I work with that we, we do need to do the identity work.

6:31We need to work on the boundaries. We need to work on the business alignment. And also they also need to work on their hormones and their adrenal fatigue and the physical things that have come up in this season of burnout that they've been going through so that it all comes together and gives them, you know, a fulfilling and thriving life for other clients that might not be the case. Maybe their health is fine. This is more of a mental thing. Maybe there's some shifts mentally that they need to make some identity work that needs to happen. And I think as people that listen to content, as people that listen to podcasts and read articles on LinkedIn and read Facebook posts and all of that, we always have to remember that everything that's being shared applies to us differently than it could apply to the next person.

7:17And knowing that we are all in a unique situation and nothing is black and white, there is no perfect answer. There is no perfect solution. There is no perfect burnout recipe. But what I can tell you from the work that I do with people is that I've chalked it up into five key principles that I know have the ability to help move people forward in the right direction. That doesn't mean I'm the only person that helps them in certain cases, because some people that come to me are pretty dang burnout and others just want to shift. But the five key principles that I help people with are more related into the interpersonal connection and self-actualization that impact the decisions they're making in the business.

8:00Yeah. Mallory, are there, let's start, maybe start talking about, you know, lifestyle things. I think it's easy for some of us to say, well, one way I can maybe self-medicate or cope is work is done. And so therefore I'm going to truly escape. You might decide to do that chemically, you know, maybe you have an after work drink or whatever, you know, whatever substance that is. And I don't know, like, I'm sure like in your work with folks that could be a tool that they're using in their toolbox may not be the best tool, but it is a tool. It's readily available. How does, or, you know, and there are other lifestyle things we could do.

8:46Can we talk maybe a bit about outside of work? What are the lifestyle things that we could do to support us? And, you know, focusing on the things that really do matter and really are going to make an impact so that we, you know, again, if we're kind of dealing with that stress, anxiety, worry, you know, whatever it is and, and or burnout, it can definitely improve those things. Yeah, that's a great question. And I think that that question actually probes another question for me that I would want to start with is like, why do we feel like we need to escape? What is the root of that in the mind that is leading us to even getting to a point where we're like, I need to do something to escape.

9:28And that's like a whole big, that can open up a can of worms for anybody. So you and I could sit here and talk about that for eight hours. So I'll make sure, you know, just in context for what your primary question was, but knowing that like for all of us, that is something to just be consciously aware of, of, am I getting to a point in my Wednesday or my Thursday or my Friday where I'm over the edge and I feel this sense of, I need to escape because what we're actually seeking is emotional balance. Now, as far as like the practical things you can do is really look at how are you filling your life up with joy along with your business?

10:08Because high-performing people have a tendency to focus so much on business success and their performance in their business that everything else is an afterthought. It's like they have a joy threshold and they forget sometimes. There's this whole other part of life too that's fun and exciting and can be full of all kinds of great things, but their identity is so focused on that success that they have forgotten to look at, you know, how are you spending your time outside of work? And are you truly connecting with your husband or your wife when you're at dinner? Like, do you have eye contact? Are you having a conversation?

10:46Are you really asking each other how the day was? Or in the back of your mind, are you thinking about all of the things on your to-do list tomorrow and not really being present in the evening. So a lot of it, it's less about like the hacks and the things and more about, are you intentionally being present in the time that you're working and not working? Wow. Yeah. So I think, you know, another way to look at, I mean, cause I will say, you know, like whatever, like emotionally, like, again, you know, I have a job where I have to be on. So it's almost like being on stage or like, you know, be like being a school teacher or you're in front of a class and you just need to teach for like, you know, six hours, seven hours straight.

11:30You know, so that in and of itself is like, you know, I get done with that and I'm kind of like, you know, to a degree. But yeah, I think you're right. You know, I, it's amazing. I used to laugh at people who would, you know, constantly be, oh, TGIF. But somewhere along the line, I feel like Mallory, I've become a TGIF kind of person. Yeah. And sometimes it's like those transitional periods because I have days in my week too, where I'm like, oh, wow, I've got seven clients on the book, right? And I'm going boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And by the end of the day, I'm kind of tired. Like we only have so much output energy that any of us are capable of.

12:10We're not super humans as much as we'd like to be. All of us want to have that drive and energy that's endless and doesn't stop. But that transitional period too, I think is so important. And it's something we skip. We just go from that last client call or for you, like that last podcast interview. And then we go immediately into like bomber dad mode or, or parent mode or, or husband or wife mode. And we don't even give ourselves time like five minutes to just decompress and shift into, I'm just going to sit with myself for a second. I'm going to take a couple deep breaths, cleanse myself, cleanse my energy.

12:46I know that might sound kind of out there to some, but just giving yourself that ability to get back connected with you so that you can set an intention and transition into what is for the rest of the evening. And I'll tell you, I work with so many people who have kids and their story on their mind is like, well, I can't do this. I've got to be, I've always got to be on. There's no way for me to have this happen. But what I see happen when parents start to do this too, is their cup is able to give more to their children because they are more present and they're not bringing the work stress into the rest of the evening.

13:21And all it takes is like a couple minutes, a little gap. Am I in setting intentional space for myself to shift from this role of me, this high performing role that's driven and successful and wants to achieve things into this role of me who's a parent or a wife or a husband? And am I giving myself a little bit of space to decompress and shift into the next thing? Yeah. And yeah, so this is fantastic. Let's talk about maybe the role of maximizing our time away. And I think the obvious one is, look, if you are going to, you know, if you're, if you're going to be, you know, being present, right. So if you're going to be on a date with your loved one, your partner, be on that date, like truly do not open Slack, you know, set your notifications so that they're not interrupting.

14:21Right. I think that's, we've, we, I think we all know that. And like, I think that that's that ideal that we want to be. And because, you know, it's like, you know, compartmental, you know, was it, was it Dale Carnegie, or I forget who it was Dale Carnegie, you know, just, you know, putting your life into daytight compartments, like, and being present, when you're at work, be present, then don't be just 60 % present to work 24 seven, you'll be 100 % present when you need to be 100 % present. And then when you don't need to be like, the world's not going to end. I mean, if it's not truly an emergency, then that could wait.

15:07Exactly. And I see this a lot with people that have teams. It's what you just said right there. They have a hard time grasping that. And what they end up modeling to their teams, even if they're not telling their teams to do it, if you struggle with that, you model to your team that you always have to be on. And what happens when your team feels like they always have to be on is they're on a hundred percent of the time, but they're giving 70 % of themselves because they don't have good boundaries of when they're supposed to be working and when they're not. So it's even for you, it's important for your, for your life experience, but it also models something.

15:41It models something to your clients and model something to your employees and model something to your children. What we do and how we behave projects a message to everybody in our life. And it's so important to just allow ourselves to go a little bit deeper because that's oftentimes, Josh, when it becomes real and we can go, oh man, I don't know that I like what I'm modeling. It's time to make a shift here. Yeah. So aside from, you know, kind of knowledge of these, kind of these tenants. Mallory, when you're working with someone like, what is, is it just kind of helping your client to become introspective enough to, well, helping to create awareness.

16:27So I think awareness is probably pretty valuable. Like what's going on here? Okay. I think I'm starting to add two and two, that seems to jive. So obviously awareness is a big part of it, but then what? Like, okay, cool. Yes. I know what's burning me out. My relationship is failing right now. My kids, I've got all this going on. I've got a lot of stressors going on in my life. Okay. I think I know I'm not superhuman. I'm allowed to be, I'm allowed to have emotions. man can I ask you a better question yeah yeah go for it I love it giving ourselves permission to feel something other than happiness not everybody deals with this I love this question but this was this was big for me I think I read um the happiness trap and subtle art of not giving an f um and it's like you know it's okay like I you know and I think culturally you know for 24 four years, I was part of an organization where if you weren't happy, that meant that something was wrong.

17:33Like you're constantly toxic happiness. And so that was four years ago that we kind of separated ourselves from that organization, but it was a church. But I, and I'm a better person for it, but yeah. Can you share just a bit about that? Do you have a hard stop in five minutes? No, I don't. I don't have a hard stop in five minutes. I had to reschedule that call. So this is perfect. Oh, great. Great. Great. The yes, a hundred percent. That happens a lot. And it actually ties back to something that you were saying before this. And is that lack of awareness? Like a lot of times when people get themselves stuck in misalignment or in burnout, or just really taking a look at their life and going, it's not thriving the way that I want it to thrive.

18:14It is that lack of consciousness, that lack of awareness of where it started. But this is the deeper work. This is part of what happens a lot in a pattern that shows up is this, I was raised in an environment or I am someone who created some beliefs in my life world that bad means I am wrong. I am not enough. I am not worthy. Like all of these stories start to show up. And sometimes it's kind of hard to go into those layers on a podcast because, you know, depending on the situation that you're in or who you are, you want to make sure you open up that in a safe space. But the toxic positivity keeps us from having radical honesty with what's working and what isn't.

19:01You know, to say to ourselves, this isn't working, I would like to change, doesn't mean that we are not enough. It just means we are seeing this isn't working. And I want more out of my life, what can I do differently or how can I be different in order to get there? And what I found even for myself and my own coaching and experience and training to work with people the way that I do, our bodies don't always know how to process emotions that aren't positive. So we will deflect conflict and deflect anything we can. We're not always aware of it, but we will prevent ourselves from facing those emotions because our body tenses up and doesn't know how to move it through us and has this concept in our mind that that emotion is somehow going to be stronger than who we are and it's going to take over.

19:55So we bypass it. We create these wild patterns that bypass these emotions. And because of that, it doesn't give us the permission to really be vulnerable with ourselves and go a little bit deeper to create that thriving life. Yeah. What does working with you generally look like when you're engaging with a client? How long do you meet? What are, obviously, set goals? Can you explain that coaching process? Yeah. I usually work with people for about six months. I'll often start at three just because I like to just give people options and six months to some feels like a long time. But in the first portion of working together, there is a process called identity work.

20:40And really, we are looking at what is driving the behavior the way that you are currently living your life. What is on the background making decisions for you that you might not be aware of? So we go through a big process of uncovering the patterns and behaviors that are running your life the way that they are. And I'm going to add to this for a second, because a lot of times we think mindset work or this identity work or deep work, this is for someone who has fear about starting a business or fear about being seen or fear about putting themselves out in the public image. And what I want people to really understand is that's not true.

21:19I work with people that make loads of money every month, have tons of employees, have tons of success. We all need identity work. None of us are outcast from this process of self-actualization work and being able to learn how to be vulnerable with ourselves and go deeper. So the first part of it really is a lot of deep work. And then we look at vision. We want to make sure that the vision that you see for your life is actually what you're set out to do. And a lot of times there's a misalignment in this. When we start to uncover the identity work and when we start to go deeper in the self-work, we realize, okay, hey, you know what?

21:58Maybe the life that you're creating isn't actually what you want to be creating or the opposite. Maybe there's this brilliance in you and you're playing at 80 % of your potential. And what would it look like if you were playing at a hundred percent? A lot of times the people I work with, it's less about doing more and more about how they're being and how they're showing up that really starts to open doors and change things for them. So it's the identity work, it's the vision work. And then there's three other components. We look at the structure. We make sure that the actual tangible pieces and the structure is set up, the habits and behaviors and everything is set up and you're receiving the support that you need in your business and in your personal life.

22:38We look at boundaries and we look at expression. Those last two pieces, I mean, I could go in tangents just Oh, man. Boundaries. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, setting boundaries with clients and team members and, you know, people in our personal lives, too. it, you know, you don't have to let someone into your life in a way that you don't want to, I mean, generally. And I think that sometimes, especially, I think that there are also then personality types like myself who, you know, I would say I try to be, or I, you know, maybe a part of my character is, you know, kind of this, you know, kind of deep empathy, right?

23:30And so, but then sometimes that means that I end up absorbing, you know, someone else's stuff, or like we, what was I saying? It's like we, what we permit persists, right? And so if there is a negative dynamic. And we allow that and we don't say, I'm sorry, but, you know, look, we, we need to define, you know, some boundaries here. Like that is so that could be that could be incredibly helpful in some cases, too. Absolutely. And we bargain with ourselves a lot about this, especially in client service, client relation world, like a lot of, you know, you work with people all day long. I work with people all day long.

24:16My clients work with people all day long. We rationalize why things are okay or not okay. And sometimes we haven't given ourselves an opportunity to look at a layer deeper in boundaries because a lot of people think about boundaries just in time management. Am I stopping work at five o 'clock every day of the week? And am I taking the weekends off? But that's not enough. That is scraping the surface of what boundaries look like. boundaries to what you just said. What am I carrying from the conversation that I just had? Am I saving my clients? And I know that when I say that, people are like, I'm not saving my clients.

24:56But sometimes we carry this massive responsibility for our clients and people in our life that's sneaky and it's undercover and we don't necessarily realize that we're doing it, but it's more about us than it is about them. Yeah. Mallory Nicole, your website is mallory-nicole.com. When somebody goes there and they're like, okay, well, I want to hear more from Mallory. I've heard enough of Josh. Also, you're a podcaster as well. I am. Yeah, you got nearly 300 episodes. I'll say you're a podcaster. I am. I love podcasting. So my podcast is short and sweet, five to eight minutes solo episodes, because I know this stuff sometimes is like, it's hard to grasp it, but you need more content and you really need more stuff to be able to go, okay, how do I integrate this?

25:53So every week I pick one topic and put out something and teach people like, this is the practical thing. This is how you integrate it into your life so that they can learn how to coach themselves. Yeah. The podcast is called Abundantly Clear, the Growth Mindset Podcast with Mallory and Nicole. Mallory, your website's mallory-nicole.com. Where else would you lead people to who want to go down the rabbit hole a little bit more? Yeah, I have a book coming out. It's not out yet, but it'll be out later this year. So I'm really working right now on bringing all of the stuff in my head and all the thousands of coaching conversations and how do I put it into a framework and really show people.

26:30So that'll be out in a few months. So you can get on the email list to be ready to receive that. And that's really easy. The way that I work with people, we actually start with a text message conversation so I can get an idea of what's going on. And if I'm even someone that can help you. So if you go to my website, you fill out the form, I will personally text you back within 24 to 48 hours. And that's what it looks like. Yeah. Awesome. Mallory Nicole again. Yep. Yep. Your website, mallory-nicole.com. This has been a great conversation. Thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for having me.

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