1600 – Practical Solutions to Thorny Problems with VSA Partners’ Ariadna Navarro

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0:59with us right now it's the chief growth officer of vsa partners it's ariana navarro ari thank you so much for joining us of course thank you for having me your website by the way is vsapartners.com it's great to have you uh you do amazing work uh i'll let you tell us about it Yeah, well, thank you, first of all, Josh. Yeah, so VSA is a brand strategy and design consultancy. And we basically work with really big blue chip clients all the way down to startup companies, really trying to help them figure out where they need to go, whether that is brand strategy, whether that's thinking of a new identity system, whether that's thinking of organizational transformation, but really trying to solve big thorny problems.

1:54And that's when and where we are best. And when companies come to us, it's sort of these big pivotal moments of either trying to grow or stagnated growth or the competition's eating their lunch. So we're really thoughtful and intentional about how we think of the business and where to take it and come with solutions that are really practical in the real world. And it looks like VSA does a lot of work around purpose, you know, kind of the why, advocacy, you know, just, I guess, mattering. And I don't know if that's always been the case, or, you know, if VSA is kind of leading the charge for what I and many others know to be expectations of consumers today.

2:41Who are you? What do you stand for? and that's far more important than today than four out of five dentists agree. Yeah, I mean, I love that you're asking that. So the VSA was founded 40 years ago and the ethos of this company is design. And when I say that, it's not just like, oh, they're designers or we are designers, but it's a company that was founded under the belief that design is a business asset. So you can use design to transform an organization, to transform behavior. So from that thinking comes our purpose, which is we design for a better human experience. And I think that may be what you're catching on to in our work.

3:24And what that means for us, whether you're solving seriously like a giant global challenge, whether you have a company that's gone through a hundred mergers and acquisitions that doesn't know how things fit anymore, or whether you're literally a startup trying to define yourself, we think about the value that that company is bringing into the world. And that's they designed for a better human experience. And we really try to be intentional about not putting more noise into the world. And we're marketers, so our job is to create more. And we really believe that more is not more, because that comes at the expense of the audience or the customer or the human being on the other end.

4:08So when we are creating brands or business strategy or design systems or advertising even, we're really intentional about is that a better human experience? And that we define through an understanding of what is the value and value for all. So that's what sort of that's the common thread in our work. And sometimes it means that we are very tortured and we really think deeply about the problem we're trying to solve. and the best way to solve it. And so ultimately in connecting the dots, you know, at that level, and I should point out, like you work with Kleenex, Google, Goose Island, a lot of Mack trucks, Manuka Health, YWCA, some really great brands.

4:57And why do you feel that this sort of work, you know, makes that change or can impact so much? Is it just about driving revenue or is there more, it sounds like, that you're saying that brand can help foster? Yeah, it generally sounds like you work at VSA because we really think of this like a three-dimensional value creation. And I know value creation sounds like a silly buzzword, but it's not. So what I mean by that is, and you're hitting on it, is are you creating value? yes, there's got to be a profit side of it. So if you're doing business strategy, you have to think of the business case, of course.

5:41But we also have to think about, is it creating value for employees? You know, so if you can be, if you're creating value and destroying your employees, then that's sort of breaking kind of that relationship. Are you creating value for your customers? Obviously that should be the first thing. It's not always the first thing companies ask, but it should be the first thing. You know, is this a value to your customers? Is it an unmet need or is it meaningful or is it relevant or is it vital? You know, however you want to define vital value for your customers. And then ultimately, is it good for the world at large?

6:14And that's, you know, that's probably a whole other podcast because companies have to think of that sustainability claims and that's, you know, that's a whole different conversation. But when you think of value for all, it sounds really difficult, right? It sounds like, holy crap, like, well, I can either create something that's going to make money or something that, you know, the audience wants when it doesn't make money or employees are not happy, but you have to think of it holistically. And it's not always easy, but it's always not that hard because we do think about, we talk about like, are there false constraints and are there things you think you can't do, but really, can you?

6:52So it really is kind of when you ask yourself those questions and you come out with something better on the other end. Yeah. And, you know, so VSA is, you know, one of the upper end branding agencies here in North America. And so from this position, too, I would imagine that and I know that you've been in this world for quite some time. If you were to dispense advice to a founder of an SMB who says, well, I don't know that I've got, you know, VSA budget, but boy, would I love to learn a thing or two from what, you know, what, maybe what things you are advising your clients to pay attention to.

7:35Or, you know, again, if you're trying to be a little bit more future thinking, you know, you might want to start leaning in this direction with your communications and, you know, how you present yourself. Yeah, it's, it's a good question. And we don't always just work with the IBMs and Googles of the world. we do do a lot of smaller companies as well, because there's something really exciting about defining someone from the beginning. I do think it's a mindset shift. It's really thinking about what do you stand for? And I think sometimes companies, and by the way, this isn't startups, it could be startups, it could be giant corporations.

8:15Sometimes they think brand is the fluff thing. It's a fluffy thing. It's like, oh, that's advertising. And it's not, It's basically defining your ethos. It's no different than if I ask you, Josh, hey, tell me who you are. Who are you as a human being? And then tell me what you do and all that stuff. And like, you know, what do you like and your hobbies? But first, like, what's who are you as a human? It's the same thing for a brand. So what I would say is take the time, the same time you're taking and defining your product or if you're a software company or your services or whatever it is you make and you do.

8:49most of the time goes there and for better or worse people there's so many brands and companies in the world that it's very hard to win by selling features it's very hard to win by selling what you do you really this is kind of the Steve Jobs sort of philosophy you have to sell you know a brand is your set of values what do you stand for because that's what you want people to attach themselves to to gravitate toward so I am you know I've been in this business as you said a while although I still say I'm 28 but it's I do love the concept of friends because it's more than a group of things it really forces you to I mean done well it forces you to to really put a stake in the ground of who you are and what you stand for and that could be scary because we live in times where, you know, it's cancel culture.

9:42It's, you know, people are afraid to say anything, brands are afraid to get it wrong. Um, but I think if you are honest about who you are and consistent about it, then you should be okay. Yeah, I agree. I, well, and you know, there's obviously been some very notable headline, you know, evoking stories in the branding world, where there's been, you know, maybe I don't know my observation and I want to be careful here, but I think you just mentioned, you know, where it doesn't feel like you're co-opting something like this feels in integrity. And I think that it's a little unsettling and shocking when you do see a brand like, oh gosh, I'm going to be careful here, but let's just say Bud Light, you know, who it was abrupt.

10:37And I think that that was unsettling for what you may have thought, you know, was the Bud Light audience. And I'm not saying that it's good or bad. I think time will tell here. Ultimately, you know, if this is if they're if they're playing three dimensional chess with, you know, with consumers. But right now, it certainly seems like, oh, that. Yeah, I kind of took one on the nose there in that decision. And again, I don't want to get into the rights or wrongs or morals or values of that, but they just, they made a brand decision. I think that's ultimately, that's all you can do. I think it just has to be true to who you are versus a marketing scheme.

11:17And that maybe schemes are a word, but like, you know, marketing tactic. So, you know, when Nike supported the whole Copernic, you know, on the knee, like the whole thing, like they caught a lot of slack as well. And people, there are probably tens of thousands of people that said they were burning their shoes but for them it was it was a symbolic of who they are and what they what they stand for or at least that's how it was communicated um and that i don't know the word it resonated but at least it seemed authentic yeah and i think it's the the co-opting feeling is when it feels like you're you obviously just using something or it's just a tactic you you know, sort of pushing it because you have, because you feel you have to.

12:02I feel like it's really tough to pull one over on consumers today because they're already with anything you do generally pretty skeptical. Yeah. I mean, I, I go back to like, and I feel like they're lazy examples because they're so good. But when you think of a Patagonia who, it's not, it's not even like that they're true to their purpose, you know, of saving the world. I mean, they are, that's what they, that's what they are, everything about them. And I was reading something today about, I'm spacing out on the CEO's name, Yvonne, or Yvonne, what's his last name? I'm spacing out. But anyway, so talking about sort of quality of everything we do and, you know, at some point you don't have to grow anymore.

12:55Like we just we'd rather have quality for our employees and, you know, like just sort of using quality as a thread. But the point I wanted to make back to that is like they are who they are. You know, they could potentially catch slack for some of it or they could, you know, someone could say like, oh, my God, yeah, you make fleece zip-ups. You're going to tell me you're going to save the world. but they they put everything behind it you know they give all their profits to the world and everything is is given back so that's very hard to do but as a as a startup I think startups in particular have a better chance because you don't have all these legacy yeah right years and years of things you know you had to do in the 80s or 90s that you can't undo or untangle you can in theory start from a better place.

13:40And that doesn't mean you give a profit. It just means you do it in a way that's more connected. You know, when you've got clarity, I can just say personally, you know, when you have clarity about, you know, what your mission purpose values are, like who you are, why you're here, what your impact role is in the world, not only does it make a lot of decisions easier in and around what you communicate, but it makes every decision in business easier because you can just hearken then back to your values. And certainly I would imagine Ariadna, there's folks listening to our conversation right now that should probably be reaching out to VSA partners.

14:18Your website again is vsapartners.com. And who is kind of like that, that ideal boy, they are just so teed up there. It's like a great marriage waiting to happen. Yeah. I, uh, it's such a good question because we never think of that. Do we like, you think of like, oh, even when clients reach out, they're like, oh, I'm going to bring these five agencies into a pitch. And, you know, and then we ask them what's an ideal agency partner. And they say one that's this or that. And, you know, rarely anyone asks, what's your ideal client? So I, I love that. I love that you're asking that. Well, first, I feel like any client that is at a pivotal moment in their trajectory.

14:59And like I was saying earlier, whether it's a big legacy organization that has to change very quickly, that has organizational challenges, that has to transform internally, or whether you're a smaller organization that is figuring out how to grow. Like legacy organizations and small organizations have very different challenges. Big challenges, both of them, but very different challenges. So we like really thorny problems to solve. And one thing we do really great, which is what attracted me to VSA or part of what attracted me to the SA is we really turn strategy into actionable, whatever that is, go to market or execution, or we really think about it in the real world.

15:45And that's rare with consultancies because a lot of the consultancy strength is in the intellectual business and brand strategy. And we really have both sides of the coin, the ability to really turn that into the real world. and and so when somebody goes to vsapartners.com what would you recommend they do at this point and they're like yes i you know they're very very they they know that they need to do the work and uh you know they there's some known gaps there um but yeah what does engagement look like how does that begin yeah it depends on the bit on the challenge but we we have a kind of a very simple ethos and how we think about it and we say every business problem is a human problem So we really start with what we call a problem party, which is kind of our approach to really understanding what is the problem?

16:39What are we trying to solve? Because very, very often you get a brief that says, I need a narrative or I need a new business identity or I need a new positioning. And it may not be that. It may be that what you have is actually an internal organizational challenge or you have a purpose or, you know, set a belief challenge, or it is a behavioral problem, you know, like diagnosing that, that business problem to the human problem is really core to how we think or how we start. And then we get to hypothesis very quickly. And then we have a rigorous approach to how we validate that. So it's sort of this, it almost feels like this continuous cycle of how we think and iterate.

17:23Awesome. Ariadna Navarro, Chief Growth Officer at VSA Partners. The website is vsapartners.com. One thing I'd recommend to our friend listening is click on work. Look at the examples of the work that you've done and you'll see exactly, okay, VSA is an amazing, amazing organization. Again, you've worked with the biggest of the big, Google, IBM, McDonald's, Harley Davidson, some Mack trucks, Nike, AT &T. So again, this has been a fantastic conversation, Arianna. Thank you so much for joining us. Of course. Thank you. It was a pleasure.

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