1727 – How To Have A Better Relationship With Money with Ellen Rogin

0:28Hey there, thoughtful listener. million in revenue. Just head to upmyinfluence.com and watch my free class on how to create endless high-ticket sales appointments. You can even chat with me live and I'll see and reply to your messages. Also, don't forget, the thoughtful entrepreneur is always looking for guests. Go to upmyinfluence.com and click on podcast. We'd love to have you.

0:58with us right now it's abundance activist ellen rogan ellen you were found on the web at ellen rogan.com r-o-g-i-n ellen it's great to have you here i'm so excited to be here with you thank you you bet yeah i should also point out you're a podcaster please share with us kind of like what you're known for what you do in the world and and don't forget to talk about the podcast Because someone listening to this conversation is just a couple of clicks away from joining you there. Yeah, great. So for most of my professional career, I was a traditional financial advisor. And what I realized that really lit me up was how people think about money, how they think about success, how you can use your mind as a tool for getting more of what you want.

1:44And so I sold that business about five years ago. And now I'm out there speaking, writing, teaching on concepts about how to have a better relationship with your money, especially in your business. Yeah. Oh, I'm so grateful you're here. By the way, I come from the money nerd world myself. That was my last company, Savings Angel. And so I was more on the consumer side of things, helping people save money and that sort of thing. But I love this. Okay. So I've got a lot of questions. All right. So the very first thing I want to talk about is what are your observations when it comes to working with founders or leaders and things like cash flow and just kind of like how that impacts them emotionally?

2:33Well, I'm glad you mentioned the word emotionally, Josh, because I want to really start there. And that's the fascinating thing to me is about how what we think about makes such a big difference in our results. And it is on the personal side. That's where I spent 28 years. And I'm also a business owner, work with a lot of financial advisors and other kind of conscious businesses, knowing that what we think and say to ourselves about our business, our success, our team makes all the difference in the world. And what I've seen is that people can lean more on the scarcity side of thinking of things or more on the abundance side.

3:12And I'd like to define that a little bit because some of you may have heard of that before. But in general, scarcity is when we're worried about things. It's very fear-based. It's aggressive competition. Like for me to win, you have to lose. There's only so much business to go around versus the abundance side, which is about collaboration. It's about generosity and optimism. one of the metaphors i found super helpful with this josh is um going with the current or against the current so my husband steven has done an ironman competition and i'm not sure if you're familiar with that you look oh yeah yeah so i saw the one i saw the one in maui uh or the big island in fact um yeah it was was there for that that that is a oh you saw it in person yeah right so So if you're not familiar, it's like a triathlon on steroids.

4:08It's like a two point something mile swim and a hundred and I think it's 12 mile bike ride. And then you run a marathon. So Steven did this and he is a good swimmer, but he ended up doing phenomenally well for his age group in the swim. And part of the reason was that they were swimming in the Ohio river with the current. and so what can happen with us in business and how we think about money is if we go with the current which is abundance thinking things are just easier they flow and we can go against the current which is more abundant scarcity thinking and it's just harder now I'm sure you know people that have made a lot of money maybe had businesses that seem successful but they're jerks or people don't want to work with them.

5:00And so it doesn't mean you can't make money going against the current. It just sucks. Like, why would you want to? And so I'm all about like, let's figure out ways that you can feel like you're flowing, making a difference, having people want to be on your team and work with you and have people referring to you. And that's the energy of going with the current. Yeah. And so talk about, and you know, it's interesting that you're from the Midwest as well. So that's my background. And I think that there are some maybe unique things that I think might be more pronounced. You know, I grew up, you know, kind of poor working class.

5:40And there was just this idea, you know, a lot of conflicting messages about money. And I would be naive if I said that that still doesn't affect me today. Right. And a lot of it, I think, comes down to, you know, my worth. And if I just work harder, then I will be able to work my way out of any problem or challenge. Right. And, you know, this idea of like, you know, there's always this equitable, you put in eight hours, you get a, you know, the commits, you know, the value that's equal with that. Those are some of the things that I know that, that I heard growing up and I still, you know, think kind of rest with me.

6:18What observations do you see? And maybe not just necessarily about, you know, Midwest, but maybe things that you see quite often amongst type A, highly self-motivated, highly driven leaders. Yeah. So the fact that you said, like you saw and heard this growing up is really fundamental to this, Josh, because what we hear and see when we're little itty bitty people has such an impact on how we relate to things growing up. It could be that it wasn't just like your parents said, Josh, you got to work really hard. And that's how you make money. Maybe they did say that, or maybe you saw them doing that.

6:58And it's often what we see versus what our parents tell us. And it's very common. And I don't know if it's just a Midwest thing for many people to think like it has to be hard. It has to be hard to be successful. And yet we all see people who have beautiful lives, they have a beautiful balance between work and family and relationships, and it doesn't feel hard for them. So I think the most important part of this conversation is to know what it is that's operating in the background. And most of the time we are unconscious to that. These tapes playing in the background, It could be money is really scary.

7:44I'm not going to be okay. It could be the belief there's always got to be a way. So they're not all negative, right? And having the belief, like one thing I heard you say is, well, if I just do this, if I work really hard, it'll work out. So part of that is probably pretty helpful for you as long as you're putting the energy in the right place and it's working for you. So one of the things I think is a helpful tool for people is to think back about what what was money like growing up in your household? I recently spoke with someone who thought they had zero money growing up. They barely had new clothes, but they went to this fancy school.

8:21It turned out there was tons of money, but their stepmom was afraid to spend it. And then other people who grow up thinking, oh, there's so much, and they run into all sorts of debt because they never saw any constraints on money. So this is a bigger deal than I think most financial advisors or most business consultants even focus on. Because if you don't have the beliefs right, it's like the roots of the tree. If the ground is poisoned and the roots aren't strong, it's really hard to grow the fruit that you want out of your business. Yeah. Another thing, just kind of thinking about maybe emotional things that I've experienced in the past.

9:05You know, we, you know, for our companies too, you know, we've had business loans and we've, you know, the lines of credit that we've used and those ended up being very successful moves. But that doesn't mean that I didn't feel a lot of weight from this concept of debt, right? So there's, you know, there's consumptive debt and there's productive debt. and sometimes when we look at this, oh my gosh, I'm on the hook for X, Y, Z. Well, yeah, but you wouldn't even have a company if you didn't put some risk out there, right? Can you talk maybe about that relationship with potentially productive debt and how that factors into SMB, business growth and ownership?

9:49Well, it is important. As you just said, there's a difference between investing in your company and just spending irresponsibly. And an investment kind of debt can be really helpful. It's also really helpful to understand what the implications are. Because coming from a background as a CPA and a certified financial planner, it was shocking to me because money, like that number side of things just came easy to me, how some people don't actually understand how that works. So if you are making a decision to get like a working capital loan or borrowing money for your business, it is important to have a plan to know like, okay, what are the payments going to need to be?

10:29Are the interest rates locked in? Are they going to go up? What does that mean? So that it isn't more, that it isn't stressful. You're seeing yourself investing in your business versus something that you don't understand. And for many people, it can be a wonderful, I mean, we just think about like taking mortgage out on your home. For most people, that's how they build up equity in their home. And it's a very similar thing to your business. If the loan's too big and you can't afford to pay it, you're going to get yourself in a hole. It's really hard to get out of. Yeah. And then, you know, another observation that I know that I've had is not every CFP speaks entrepreneur.

11:11And I'm grateful that you have, you know, some connection to that. Um, what, um, what advice might a typical CFP provide that maybe someone who truly understands entrepreneurialism and business ownership and some of those, some of those nuances or ups and downs or the inconsistency, you know, like, Hey, how come you only paid yourself a thousand dollars this month and$8 ,000 the next month? What what's going on there? That's not, I, you know, the, the, kind of the job CFP, like, what, you know, might be a little freaked out by that. Just as an example of like one thing that might come up. Yeah, well, actually, if you're working with a financial advisor, many times they are in their own business.

11:55So I'm hoping they speak some language of entrepreneurship. It might be that you have the type of business that they can't totally relate to. Like I worked with more self-employed people than I did a business owner with hundreds of employees. I didn't have any clients like that. That wasn't my market. So some of it might be that if you're choosing a financial advisor or an accountant or someone else that's helping you on the financial side, you want to make sure there's a really good fit there that you aren't necessarily their biggest client or their smallest client and that there is some alignment so that you can get the kind of advice that you most need from them.

12:34and yeah, and finding that person is like finding the right specialist for healthcare. You want to make sure you feel comfortable with them, that they know what, that you're confident, they know what you're doing and that there is a good fit for you. Yeah, and are there any resources that you'd recommend, books, maybe something that you've created that would be helpful for this? I don't know, just finding peace with money or maybe questions that we can ask ourselves so we can get a little bit more introspective about our relationship with money. Because as you mentioned, listen, this impacts your operations.

13:14This impacts your sales. This impacts pretty much everything. Your relationship to money is impacting way more in your business, this is my belief, than you probably are aware of. This is big, important stuff. Yeah. Well, thank you. And I agree. I'm going to go a little self-promotional for a second because around the time this is coming out, my third book is about to be launched. It's called Messages from Money, How to Stress Less, Prosper More, and Reshape Your Relationship with Money. And it's a lot about the internal work that we do. My last book, Picture Your Prosperity, which I think is really a really good book, is a little bit more on the personal side of things, but it delves into how we think about money.

14:01And as you actually create a visual financial plan. So that's one resource. And another thing, and this sounds, this is a little bit super micro tactical, but I think it's one of the most important things I ever did as a business owner. Doesn't seem directly related to your money, but I'm a huge believer in mindfulness and meditation because that how we started this conversation, like what you think and say to yourself about money, you can't hear that if there's always like all this constant noise happening. So to settle things down and take even mini breaks of three breaths to, um, it's like letting the snow globe settle so that you can hear what's actually happening in there is one of the best things that I've ever done.

14:50I agree with you. And I think sometimes our brains, at least I can speak for my brain, my brain, when there's something challenging or stressful, my brain immediately wants to go into action mode or fix it mode and not even to take the time to be still and, you know, to kind of reflect. And, you know, some of these things that are probably going to provide, you know, a little less frenetic energy for certainly, you know, which is, I agree is pretty helpful. Yeah. And I want to recommend another book. There's a book called Brain On by Deb Smolenski. And it's all about how to have your brain be the most effective it can at work.

15:35And she talks about exactly what you just said, that the way our brains are structured, when we're stressed out or worried, the amygdala, our flight, fight, flight, or freeze response is activated. And sometimes that can be helpful for us. And often it keeps us from being able to access the more creative, more thinking parts of our brain. And so to have tools like meditation, like walking in nature, like just taking a break from your day, nose down, working all the time is really hard to be creative. And there's lots of great tools in that book as well. And it is, as Deb says, it's one of our best tools that no one even pays attention to.

16:18Are you maximizing and appreciating the use of your brain during your workday? Yeah. Thank you so much for that book recommendation. By the way, I want to just point out, Ellen, if someone goes and obviously go to your website, ellenrogan.com, click on at the very bottom, you'll see a link to your LinkedIn and on your, it looks like you did a live stream with Deb, that is probably going to be a really great conversation. I see it playing right now in your LinkedIn stream. So if you want to kind of preview the topic in detail before engaging with the book, Deb or Ellen, that's a great place to watch a conversation.

17:05It looks like you're a fantastic host. All right. From here, someone's been listening to our conversation. They know that they need to have a conversation with you. What are those ways that you engage with people? And what might be some great doorways in those engagement paths? Yeah, well, I would love the opportunity to do that. Certainly, you can connect with me on LinkedIn. I do do the only work I do with individuals right now on the kind of money side of thing is I do what are called messages from money, where I work with people to help them clear money blocks that they may have. I do a lot of speaking and writing.

17:41If you go to ellenrogan.com, you can find out all sorts of things about my programs and my books. And if you go to ellenrogan.com forward slash goodies, there's a special free resources that I have for your listeners, Josh, And you would get a copy, a free copy of my first book, Great With Money, which is a great book. Simple, easy, talks about this process. And then also some other resources on mindfulness and ways to just have a better relationship with your money. Yeah. Awesome. All right. Ellen Rogan, your website, ellenrogan.com, the hub to all things Ellen. Ellen, it's been a great conversation.

18:24Thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you, Josh. I'm so grateful for being here.

18:57by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts or join our listener Facebook group. Just search for The Thoughtful Entrepreneur in Facebook. I'd love even if you just stopped by to say hi, I'd love to meet you. We believe that every person has a message that can positively impact the world. We love our community who listens and shares our program every day. Together, we are empowering one another as thoughtful entrepreneurs. Hit subscribe so that tomorrow morning that's right, seven days a week, you are going to be inspired and motivated to succeed. I promise to bring positivity and inspiration to you for around 15 minutes each day.

19:40Thanks for listening and thank you for being a part of the Thoughtful Entrepreneur Movement.