1805 – Creating High Impact Leaders with Cary Frieden

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2:09With us right now, it's Kerry Frieden. Kerry, you are the founder of Effective Exec. You are found on the web at effective-exec.com. Kerry, thank you so much for joining us. Hey, thanks for having me today. Excited to be involved in talking to you. Yeah, and I don't know if we'll get to it, But we did a little exercise ahead of time, and I'll leave that up to you if it kind of works into our conversation. But Kerry, I'll have you kind of maybe just share an overview of the work that you do today and who you work with and what you do. So I know I appreciate queuing it up that way. So I'm an executive advisor to several hundred CEOs, not all at once, but they're in my phone book and I'm in theirs in terms of I'm their chief related people advisor.

2:53I give strategic advice using applied psychometrics to help them understand how realistic or insane is their business plan, their chief goal or objective into being able to put the points on the board. Can they get the team to get the boulder over the hill the way they planned? Or is that in fantasy land? And I help them tactically strategize how to get there. or someone who's listening to us and they just heard the word applied psychometric analytics and they kind of like, oh boy, is that just, are those just buzzwords? Tell us about the science here and how the skeptical person realized just how valuable what we're talking about is.

3:37So I appreciate that. And actually I probably validated this, you know, over 10 ,000 times as my clients do it. It becomes the most, I'll call it, it's the religious go-to source for understanding what someone's strengths are. So in terms of validity, and there's all kinds of psychometric tools that everybody knows about, DISC or Myers-Briggs, and there's a few others. The tool that I use has one of the highest rated scales for validity and predictive performance for individuals based on who they are. And so when we're looking at a team or we're trying to figure out, should I hire Josh to be the CEO of my company?

4:19Well, what I want to understand is who he is and do his traits drive the behaviors that are necessary for the goals of the organization. So if I look at your organization, well, the first thing I want to understand is, what are your top goals? Where are you trying to get this to go three to five years from now? What kind of growth are we trying to achieve? And when I understand the components of where you're trying to go, when I look at who you are, and as you indicated, I actually have the data on your traits, then it lets me know how probable are you to achieving those goals. You see, the traits that we're born with, and 48 % of the traits that we have are based on nature.

4:59You get them from your mom and your dad. The other 52 % is through nurture. What happened to you after you came out? How many siblings did you have? Were you beat up? Were you stuffed into a locker? By the time you're eight years old, roughly 75 % of your traits are hardwired. And by the time you're 12 years old, you are completely hardwired. You are who you are. You do not change. So when I'm looking at companies and teams trying to understand who they are and how do they put points on the board, and when they're not what we need them to be, it's not a hit the eject button, kick them out of the boat, have them walk the plank.

5:34It's can we manage them in a way or support them in a way to make them more successful? Most of my clients choose that tactic rather than the eject button. Now, before you hire somebody, you want to measure are they who you need them to be. Data is very accurate. I actually have your data, and I got a couple of people in your team's data as well to understand objectives. Yep. Do I want to hear this? This is the first time I'm hearing this because I submitted. Thank you, by the way, for offering that. And okay, I'm an open book, Glass House, whatever, however you want to. Terry, what are you seeing?

6:10Let me tell you what I know about you based on the data. And I think it took you that the record chose me. This took you about six minutes to fill out a basic two question event that lets me understand through this predictive analytics tool set who you are. And again, the words I'm going to use have meaning that might differ to me than they mean to you. So please feel free to challenge me. My job is not to tell you who you are and who you aren't. But let's see how accurate this can be. So the first thing I'll tell you is that when it comes to being a sociable person, This is your greatest gift, accomplishing things through and with people.

6:44Words that I would describe you, you are very friendly, talkative, sociable, optimistic, motivational, inspirational. You are all cheerleading and consensus building, getting people on board. That's just who you are. Even if you said, you know, I'm just going to sit here and keep my mouth shut and not talk to anybody, can't help it. You love to talk. You love to get other people talking and sharing so you can understand who they are, what they're about and how do you get people aligned to achieve a mutual goal? Any questions about what I've said so far? Yeah, that's pretty good. You know, it's so funny.

7:18Even that little comment you made, there's times that my wife and I were like, we're going to like a get together or a party and I'm like, oh man, I am just not feeling it. And then I get there and, you know, as soon as it gets going, I'm like, ah, man, you know? And so I - That's your juice. You never want to leave the party. Well, yeah, no, what's interesting, though, and think about this for anyone who maybe heard that description and can identify with some of that. What here's what I do know, is that when I'm in that social environment, I enjoy it, like I'm in my groove. And it both invigorates me, but it also kind of wipes me out a little bit, too.

8:01Because I do, you, like, I feel this pressure to be so present that sometimes that's, you're just physically exhausting. Like it's speaking, right? So it's like you get on stage and it's like, you get done speaking. And I think most of us just want to go lay down. At least I'll speak for myself anyway. No, I'm not going to argue with you on that, but I want to explain some of you about one of the differences between what we're talking about measuring and how businesses utilize this to make money and understand who the people are. Because ultimately that's what this is all about. Some people are more driven by their sense of self, their autonomy, their desire to be the leader, to be in charge.

8:38Others are more desired by their need to perfect or get things accurate. And people who are wired the way you are, are most desired to use and create that people glue. And so when it comes to the way I would expect you to predictably build an organization, First and foremost, people glue is your non-negotiable requirement. Josh is willing to give up some points on the board, some push forward to get that people glue. Your big picture strategic vision is to get everybody going in the same direction to then put points on the board. Not let me shoot first and then ask for forgiveness and permission later.

9:24It's not about driving the results first. It's about getting everybody together. And once you know you have that, that's when I see Josh put on his let's push it forward and let's make sure everything is right. And so some organizations, some positions, sometimes you need quality first. Sometimes you need people first. Sometimes you need let's get the drive and we'll figure it out on the way to the market. You are a let's get people on board first. And so you are wired. If I need a team builder, if I need to build an organization that has amazing, cohesive value first, you are the guy. If we are building the highest technical product with the craziest and most absolute analytics.

10:12Well, that's not you. That's not Josh. Now, can you survive in that environment if you were in that role? Well, we're going to want to surround you with people who thrive in that. And they'll be the happiest group of QC programmers that you've ever met because that's what you strive for. That's what you create. So if part of your company's core values is building cohesive teams, and that's the first thing on the list, Josh is your guy. Interesting. That is really cool. You know, and here's the value, Carrie, is, you know, when, let's say, as a leadership team, how valuable this could be if, you know, everybody understands, like, for example, we don't have to, you know, go through poor Kimberly's results publicly.

10:58But I'll tell you, you shared some results with my kind of director of all of our pod coaches. and that was really, really valuable because there's going to be certain things, Carrie, like when we know our people, it can be really easy for us to be oblivious because we operate in the way that we wanna do things, but that might be like nails on a blackboard for somebody else. Or again, it's kind of the, understanding this kind of these strengths, weaknesses, sensitivities and so forth. you know, I might know or want to be sensitive to kind of maybe meet Kimberly in the middle or Lisa in the middle.

11:39Or I'd say also, too, I'm just thinking of so many benefits here, right? Hiring, you know, it's like, well, if it's known that Josh is not a super analytical detail kind of person that loves to spend hours and hours and hours in the numbers, well, then Josh probably is going to want to have someone, you know, on his right hand side to be able to do that stuff. Absolutely. Well, and to your point, as leaders, we as leaders, you can't call yourself a leader if you turn around and nobody's following you. And so how do I get people as a leader in an organization to follow me? Well, the first thing is I do need to make sure I'm meeting each person where they are.

12:15If I go to the person who only cares about quality, okay, they care about everything being perfect, the absolute perfectionist. And I start talking about growth initiatives, they might say, well, you know, Kerry only cares about growing. He only cares about pushing the ball forward. He only cares about points on the board. And what is actually translated from my mouth to their ears is kind of like the, um, the adult voice in the old peanuts cartoons. They don't actually hear any of it. But if I go to that perfectionist, if I'm the leader of this perfectionist who's in charge of my IQC and I explain to them, okay, I'm really interested in the quality of the delivery of our product.

12:56And I want your perspective as to how do we scale this organization in a way that maintains quality? Well, as soon as I said quality, what happened? Their ears perked up and they said, wait, hang on. We want to address quality first. Yes, I am so on board with scaling in this manner. But if I go in and just say, I want to be in seven new markets and I want to do this, what are they thinking? I don't care about how we do it. I just want to get there. And so I need to address those things. But there's something magical that happens in that conversation. By me taking that perspective, I'm not just getting them to hear me.

13:34I'm also seeing and valuing what they are concerned about, which starts to give me a slightly different perspective, more of a 360 view other than just my own vision. So by focusing on seeing the world through our other team members that we rely on to execute, it gives us a more well-rounded plan and a better chance at strategically executing on the top objectives of the company. Ultimately, this is a business process. I don't do personality profiling. I'm helping business leaders execute on their top strategic goals. Yeah. Carrie, let's talk briefly about the consequences of not paying attention to this as a leader.

14:18And then we'll kind of wrap it up here because I just want to because there might be someone listening and think, oh, that would be a nice to have kind of thing to kind of we'll all do personality tests and it'll be fun. And so I want to light a fire under our friend who's listening to our conversation right now. And then let's give them a call to action so that they can maybe do a little bit of this work with you. Yeah. And for clarification, I want to say that, you know, you use the word personality test. I want to say I did that. This is about strategic execution. One of the tools, one of the tools we use is a measure of some business related traits that are essential to understanding.

14:56But let's talk about what the tax is if you ignore this, if you fight against it. The typical visionary, the prototype visionary leader has an unrealistic expectation about what they can achieve and what the people on the team can achieve. What they typically will do is try and always cram that circle into a square, saying modify, behaviorally modify. And so we send someone out to do a task. In your case, if I said, you know what, Josh, I got to put you in charge of ensuring that all of the numbers and all the forms were filled out perfectly. And it's going to be highly technical, transposing of data, calculated formulas all day long, puts you as a forensic accountant position.

15:40And that's your job. Well, there's only three things that can happen when I send somebody to do a job they're not wired to do. The first thing is if I'm going to hold them accountable, they're going to be stressed out and that doesn't equal fun for them. And as their manager, it's not fun for me either because I'm always asking you to do something you don't want to do. And I keep weighing, do I use the carrot or do I use the stick? Because you're not intrinsically motivated to execute without my management. So you don't have a good time for engagement. The second thing that can happen is you start to disengage in the position and let other people carry your bucket of water, which means you're stressing the other workers out and they're not doing it.

16:24Other people are having to do the work for the first person. You're double paying one person underpaying the other. The third thing is it just doesn't happen. There's a delivery gap in company. It doesn't. It's not achieved. the goals that achieve, or we have to start shrinking our goal to meet the bench strength we have. Because ultimately, each company is perfectly designed to achieve the results that we're achieving. And so what I do is I help them look at that to see if we can't stack the deck, make it easier. Yeah. Yeah. Kerry, what does it usually look like when you begin that work with someone?

16:58So I'll be candid. This is not what I do isn't for everyone. And so what I will typically do is called a, I go out on a date and that date looks like a team assessment. And I want to assess the team. It's not a very deep project. What happens is in the course of each team member spending about eight to 10 minutes going through a basic assessment, me having a conversation with the CEO to understand top goals. We can then have a data intensive conversation about whether or not that team is wired to meet the objectives. And as I'm going through and explaining the data and asking questions and learning about that company.

17:33It lets us both understand the company and me, if this would be something that would be beneficial. And so in short order, I get to know if I want to go out on a second date with you and you with me. And that way we're figuring out, is this a viable path? Time is the most valuable commodity we all have. And the last thing I want to do is waste my time or someone else's with a program that maybe doesn't fit for them. So So assessing that is the first step. And whether or not we go forward, I always find it's a valuable use of my time, which is why I do that assessment typically for qualified companies, complimentary, because I want to find out, is this going to be good for me too?

18:13I'm selfish that way. Sorry. Yeah. Carry your website, effective-exec.com. When somebody goes there, what would you recommend they do? You know what? I think the best starting point is to do the self-assessment, which I have that as part of the contact form you can go to. And I'll send you the assessment. I will schedule a 10 to 15 minute call. Let me tell you about the data that I have on you based on that and start to kind of paint a picture that we can understand. Would this be a good Bible? I do want to know. I'll say, don't be lazy. You got to have some set of goals and objectives about what your business is trying to achieve.

18:48if you don't have a set of plans that you've already started to formulate, whether it's you're using traction, using a vision traction organizer or a one-page business plan, having a clear understanding about where your company's going, mission, values, goals. I want to have that first before I'm talking to you. All right, Kerry Frieden, again, you solve people problems. Hey, I appreciate the time. Yeah, Effective Dash. exact.com. Thank you so much, Kerry, for joining us. Hey, thanks, Josh. Thanks for being a good listener to it all.

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