1900 – Navigating the World of Publicity with Alice Draper

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0:58with us right now it's alice draper alice you are the founder and chief strategist with hustling writers your website is hustlingwriters.com alice thank you so much for joining us thank you so much josh i'm excited to be here yeah please do give us an overview of what you do with hustling writers yeah so hustling writers we're on a mission to make publicity accessible for under-recognized entrepreneurs. I myself have a background in pitching myself as a journalist, so I learned to write pitches to get published in magazines like Pathpost or Business Insider. And early in my career, I found the process of getting rejected very deterring, and it almost made me reconsider whether I am cut out to be a writer, whether I have what it takes to write these stories.

1:50And I came across a Facebook group where a bunch of writers were talking about their rejection goal. And their goal was to get 100 rejections in a year. And that completely did a 180 in the way I approached pitching myself. For the first time, I was focused on output rather than getting each pitch perfect and hearing yes. And that's when I started to see real results. That's when I really started building a portfolio and getting a lot of articles accepted. And then it came with kind of a natural skill of pitching, which is how I ended up pivoting to publicity. And here we are. Well, and this is interesting.

2:25I think, you know, if we think about rejection, nobody necessarily sets out to be rejected. But yet, I think when we look at those who, you know, catch a lucky break or however you want to describe it, oftentimes, you know, whether it's an actor or someone, you know, that was auditioning for stage opportunities or certainly in media, something I know a little bit about, you know, it's just, you know, not every part is right for you. Right. And not every, you know, guest expert slot is right for you in the moment. Either you're not ready. It's not the right timing. It's just not the right production for you.

3:03And that might be hard to hear a no, but can you give us a little bit more insight on that? Yeah. So, I mean, there are so many reasons why you might be rejected. You could be rejected because they just three weeks ago had someone with similar expertise on the podcast. If we're pitching podcasts, for example, if you're pitching a magazine, they only have a budget to, you know, get a writer to talk specifically about these three topics and you happen to not be pitching one of these three topics. So, and that's all the stuff we don't really know as the people pitching ourselves. We don't know all the background context of why someone's rejecting you.

3:42And then also the other part of it is we get better by doing. Like I'm a firm believer that the more we do something, the better we get at that thing. And that thing is pitching in this context. So if you're, you know, getting all caught up in a rejection, you're not giving yourself a chance to get better at pitching and to start hearing some yeses. Because if I look back at my early pitches, they sucked. But the reason why I got better at pitching is because I set a rejection goal and as I started hearing these no's and then I heard some yeses I'd be like oh what what did I do right in that pitch how can I you know learn from that and apply that to more of my other work and I think building a rejection resilience muscle translates to all areas of our life it means that we are a little bit hard like you know more resilient and we can make bigger asks in other areas not just pitching ourselves which I think is quite key to success is putting ourselves out there and making those asks.

4:37Yeah. So what do you recommend to say someone that is just trying to get their expertise out there? They're just trying to serve audiences. They want to do so either through the media or maybe they're working with a digital content provider. And let's say that, well, okay, I'm going to be silly here. Let's say that they use like a press release service or they just blast out like, you know, a hundred press releases about their new amazing book. and they get nothing in response. What went wrong? Yeah, I guess a lot of things could have gone wrong. Probably, you know, if you're, and I don't really work in the spray and pray approach of media outreach, so I can't speak to it as much.

5:19I do very personalized PR. That's what my team does. We spend a lot of time on each pitch and so we get a very high acceptance rate. But like with us, the way I do it is, you know, if we're not getting results, we'll really look back and be like, what what marks are we missing if you're sending a hundred pictures by an ai machine and you're not getting anything then i would probably guess that like the people receiving it can tell it's written by ai they can probably tell that it's not targeted and like kind of what they deal with what their content matter deals with so i think there's so many things you can start looking at about what went wrong it could be that you're pitching the wrong people what you're what you released is irrelevant to them um it could be the style of pitching it could be that the pitching doesn't really address like them in a personable way because a cold pitch like by definition is cold and our job as a pitcher is to make it as warm as possible um so that they're not getting the ick reading it they're kind of like wow this person knows me and they kind of know what i'm all about and that's impressive so yeah i think there's a lot of things that that could we could because their nature was kind of dissecting what went wrong.

6:32But I think what could be helpful is ask for feedback. You know, if you do get a no, you could say, hey, like, could you tell me a little bit? What about why? What went wrong here? Yeah. And it's also, too, having empathy for whoever the creator is, you know, if it's a journalist, if it's a producer, certainly if it's a host, you know, the empathy is they get probably dozens of pitches a day. Right. And so don't feel bad because you'll likely got cotton in the wash for them. So it's not that there's anything wrong with you, but to your point, and I think this is really key. We need to underline this.

7:13I'm so glad that you picked up on this. You know, I agree with you. Like I found that if you treat journalists and influencers, content producers, podcasters, big YouTubers, if you just treat them like a number and you're going to do the spray and pray approach, that journalist will know that energy. They'll feel it. They can tell. They know when you're just blasting like a one to many. And so I like what you said. And I'm going to spend more time with fewer people kind of approach. And some people might argue, well, Alice, that sounds ineffective. Why am I going to spend all this time with one single journalist?

7:52How would you answer that? Well, I think, you know, you're not thinking about the long-term relationship rewards of that. So as much as that may take a long time, and especially when you're doing those direct outreaches, it's really hard to kind of make a positive impact in the journalist's mind because they are just getting so many of you every day dropping in the inbox. But when you do have that positive interaction, I mean, the psychology has proved this, they're more likely to respond to you over another publicist next time. And the more repetitions you get of that, the more they realize you are a good publicist, you know what they're about, you know what they cover, you always come with policy leads, the quicker that pipeline is for you getting future clients press coverage from that journalist again.

8:38So when you're building those relationships, it can just be like a DM, hey, I've got someone else. I really think she's relevant to like what you're working on. And you send it over and you didn't even have to spend time pitching it because you built that relationship. They know you, they trust that you have good people and they like want to see what you're sending them. So yeah, I would think of it in that lens, which is like the long-term payoff. Yeah. You know, and I've mentioned this before, but you know, I've, I've had the opportunity to be in the media now over 2 ,500 times. I would say 90 % of those 2 ,500 are 10 outlets.

9:13Like, does that make sense? Like I've done so like, you know, oh my gosh. Well, you know, it's like I've been a syndicated newspaper columnist since 2009. And so that every single week, you know, it's that's part of showing up. Now, that gig came about from investing in warm relationships, offering to be of service, not selling. And this is what I'd love for you to talk about next, because I have seen a lot of pitches where it's just me, me, me, me, me, me, me. what you're going to do for me. And everybody wants to know because that we launched version 1.2 X of our new software, or, you know, here's yet another book to add to the pile.

9:59And, you know, again, those pitches a lot of times sound like, okay, that's great. Well, this sounds like you want to be known for what you do, or you want to be celebrated for what you do. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. It's just that may not necessarily match the goals of the producer or the journalist. Can you talk a little bit more about intent and what makes a good pitch? Yeah. I mean, I'm so glad you brought that up because I think that that's one of the quickest ways to get your pitch ignored. And like you said, it's not bad intentions. You know, you, obviously, when we're pitching ourselves, it's because we think that our work is interesting and relevant for this place.

10:36But opening up with a bio of I am so amazing at this thing, wow wow wow it really doesn't speak to you don't you're not one you're not disarming the person receiving it so they're not like wow josh really knows me or you know whoever's pitching me really got to know me and what i'm about so the advice that i always give is like a few things to do before you go into the me me me um and this can be specifically pitching podcasts which is what our expertise is um i would open up with a very specific personal intro which is like hey josh i loved your linkedin post on xyz i you know i changed my approach to marketing and now i do this on my social media channels and now you're like damn like it's not overkill they're not being like i think you're you're amazing and you have a great podcast which is very generic and you can probably smell bullshit but they're like actually did read your linkedin post and so that that's already slammed you next i would open up with a narrative so it can be very short it can be very specific um what i did and what my podcast pitches i spoke about my rejection story which is like me young eager journalist i send a pitch out i like made it perfect i you know proof checked spoke to my sources did all my research and then crickets nothing and how disheartening that was and so i think the thing with storytelling especially vulnerable storytelling is that you are creating an emotional connection with the person even if they're a stranger it's like okay this this could be kind of interesting to read like this is not my usual just like overkill bio about how you amazingly are and even if I said I went to Colombia and spoke to Barack Obama like at this point you're probably not even reading it but a story is just different so yeah so then I opened that then I would give like the value now this is like a speaking point so if I'm coming on a podcast if it's an article I talk about what the article is going to address and then right at the end I put the bio with the links make it really easy for them to go check out who you are, where you're hanging out, and then like a call to action that you know you want to connect.

12:50So that's my approach to pitching. I kind of go through those steps and I really try not make it feel ego-driven and open up with the bio of me. And I'm so amazing because I really don't think it's an effective pitching strategy. No, probably not. I agree with you. Your website is hustlingwriters.com. Alice, share just a bit about who you work with and what that looks like. Yeah, you know, kind of day-to-day work is we work on retainer with entrepreneurs, a lot of coaches, a lot of keynote speakers, a lot of authors, people who really have businesses that require them to be getting consistent visibility.

13:30That's why I love working with authors because, you know, they have this book and they need to get this book in the hands of as many people as possible. And then I also have a course, support picture power which is 57 and that teaches everyone the basics of pitching themselves with the screen shares and um yeah like everything that we do in-house how we find the email how we craft the pitch all those things um and then i have a free template on my website um so if you just go to as you said hustlingwriters.com you can get that free template with my template how i do it all these things i mentioned you know about our strategy and like the five key things you should include in a good pitch.

14:08Yeah. Again, that's hustlingwriters.com. And again, on that website, you'll find those resources. What do I click on to find the template in particular? It's hustlingwriters.com forward slash, I think it's pitch template, but I'll send you the link afterwards. You can put it in the show notes. That will go, yes. So to our friend that's listening, just click around until you find the show notes. We have a direct link directly to that template, which I think you're going to want because you're probably going to learn some things. Oh, I shouldn't be saying that. I probably should be saying more of this.

14:40Alice, you've got it all figured out. And again, your website, hustlingwriters.com. What would be an example of someone that would make a really great client for you? Someone who is interested in being vulnerable to share the story. I think that's like what I love doing is I love kind of getting through to that transformation story. So if you wrote a book or you're working in a business where you're really about kind of building an authentic brand and kind of showing sides of you, that's my dream clients. Like I love working with entrepreneurs, under-recognized entrepreneurs who have done something different in their field and now want to show like a holistic, like all sides, the good and the bad, the bad things they overcame in order to get where they are and use that to kind of build up their personal brand.

15:31Alice Draper, again, your podcast guest placement expert, and you are the founder and chief strategist for Hustling Writers, your website, hustlingwriters.com. Alice, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much, Josh. I really enjoyed this.

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