1972 – Empowering Women to Lead in Tech and Beyond with Kim Jones

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1:05With us right now, it's Kim Jones. Kim, you are the founder and CEO of the Kim Jones Alliance. Your website is kimjonesalliance.com. Kim, thank you so much for joining us. It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me. Yeah, absolutely. So tell us what the Kim Jones Alliance is. Yeah. So my business is all around, it's basically built on a mission of elevating women in the workplace. So just a little bit of background on that. I have a 25-year corporate career. Prior to founding my own company, I worked my way up to very senior executive level positions in the information technology space.

1:44I was divisional CIO with a Fortune 250 company, and in that work really saw the need to elevate women in male-dominant spaces, particularly in industries where women are significantly underrepresented, like leadership and tech. So once I left my corporate job, I really had a very clear vision about how to work with women who are looking to achieve their highest potential through the work they do in the work that I do. So that takes the form of a number of different things from coaching to consulting to education and teaching to leading workshops and teaching leadership skills and the like. Kim, on the topic of gender equity, if you were to give us a current state of the union of maybe some things that have really, like we should feel good about, you know, over the past 20 years of where we are today, and maybe identify some of the largest gaps that you think or see that there's still quite a bit of work to do.

2:45I would love your take on this. Yeah. So let's start with the good news. On the good news side, the conversations are happening at a level that I have not experienced in my 30 plus years being part of the workforce. When I joined the workforce and when I worked my way up to leadership, there was sort of this prevailing idea that there was one way to lead, that traditional models of leadership were based on traditionally male-centered characteristics and traits. Over time, there's been a lot more recognition of the intrinsic qualities that women bring to leadership, qualities like empathy, flexibility, collaboration, and ways that we can express that and be authentic so that we can achieve a really good balance and more authenticity in the kinds of leadership styles that are out there, which creates more inclusivity for folks.

3:36That's the good news. The good news is the conversations are happening. Companies are really interested in building more diversity in a number of different ways from leadership all the way down. The bad news is that we, as you said, still have a very long way to go. We still see women being significantly underrepresented in leadership positions. If you look at Fortune 250, 500 companies, there are single digits usually of women who are sitting as CEOs of those companies. C-suite level positions are still hovering in the 20 % range. My industry tech, depending on the role and the company, you can expect to see only 25 to 35 % of positions being held by women.

4:18So we have the awareness of where we need to go. The question now is how do we actually get there? And that's one of the reasons why I built my company is to help those organizations turn their intentions into actions so that they can start to benefit from the advantages of having more diverse workforces that include more women leaders and employees in general. I'd really love to maybe kind of split up this question into two parts. And I'd like to maybe first address what women might be able to be more mindful of regarding maybe existing cultures or beliefs in the workplace. And so maybe internally, what can women do to, obviously we hear, don't undersell yourself, don't shortcut your worth, that sort of thing.

5:18But if you were to kind of turn and face the ladies in the audience right now and say, women, let's have a quick conversation, and we'll get to the men in just a second. I love that. Well, the first thing that I would say is to understand that bias exists and it's part of the environments that we operate in. This idea that there's a fair and just world isn't exactly where we are right now. And oftentimes just knowing that our systems are sort of stacked against us because of the bias can help us start to take empowered actions to maneuver and navigate in those environments. And so once we understand that any bias that we encounter is not personal, it's often systemic.

6:01So for example, if we're being interrupted or we're not being deferred to as the expert in our area, or we're not being included in networks, once we understand that that's likely not due to anything that you're doing, that is likely a function of bias. Then the next thing that I do is to encourage my clients to figure out and to identify what is the power move that they can make in any situation where they're encountering bias. so often when women encounter bias, they tend to shrink and make themselves smaller. They tend to think, what am I doing wrong? How come I'm not getting the same airtime as my male colleagues, or how come I'm not getting the same access to promotions as my male colleagues?

6:38And they can start to doubt themselves and almost create a self-fulfilling prophecy where they're not putting themselves out there as much, not using their voice and they're doubting themselves. So what I encourage them to do is identify what is that power move so that you don't give away your power in that moment? What can you do to hold firm? So that can be as simple as just noticing that you're starting to shrink and take that back, take back that position of confidence and authority. It can be finding allies within your organization who will support you in the kinds of things that you want to do in your career.

7:10It can be promoting floor time for yourself so that you're getting equal airtime in any situation. It can be as simple as being prepared to go into a meeting and use your voice when you're really uncomfortable doing that. If you're someone who tends to hold yourself back because you're a little bit worried about how your messages will be received, having a very clear structure about how you can show up and lean into your areas of discomfort, like lean into the edges of your comfort zone so that you can start to sort of build that confidence muscle and to operate confidently, even in the face of the things that we as women encounter in male dominant fields and industry so that we don't, again, give away that power and we then put ourselves on the best path to success.

7:55Excellent. I love it, Kim. What a great address. All right, gentlemen, now let's turn and maybe address the other side of the room. In this bizarre imaginary room, for some reason, they've separated themselves by gender. But now let's address the gentlemen. And, you know, I hope and I could be completely naive here, but I hope that at least intellectually, 98, 99 percent of men when asked would say, yes, I absolutely believe in equity. Again, I could be completely off on even intention. And then I believe that there is likely where intention and what's being exercised or what's actually being done, there's likely some gaps, Kim.

8:47That's my suspicion. Yeah. No, it's a great point, and I agree with you, Josh. I see the same thing. I see most men absolutely advocating for an experience of equity. the challenge that all of us have men and women is that we are conditioned to hold certain biases and stereotypes just from the environments that we're in from the norms that we're exposed to. So if I were, I were talking to men in the room, the first thing I would say to them is don't assume that the experiences that you are having in the workplace are shared by everybody else. If we know from data, we know from surveys that men are much more significantly more likely to state that they feel that their environments are fair and inclusive because those environments were built for them and support them.

9:35And they may look around and they may see women and people of color and people in different marginalized groups and think like, hey, you know what? We don't have an issue here. I see representation. What they may not be aware of is the experiences of those groups might be vastly different. And there's a whole lot of maneuvering and negotiation that we have to do in underrepresented groups just to feel like we're on level playing fields. So what I would encourage the men to do is, first of all, take away that assumption that everything is fine if you happen to believe that. Get to know your colleagues who are in underrepresented groups.

10:07Ask them questions about what their experiences are. Start to pay attention to where you might be holding your own biases. By the way, I've had my biases as well. Again, because we're all conditioned to have these biases. But because my experience and my career is affected by my gender, I'm much more likely to go out and learn about how those biases show up and do something about it. Whereas people in more of the majority groups may not be so, you know, so aware that there's these things are existing and to learn about them and to start to unlearn some of those behaviors. So once they can become aware of the fact that they're likely carrying biases that are affecting the trajectories of people in marginalized groups, they may be in a better position to then sort of change their own behaviors.

10:51And importantly, I would invite them to be allies to people who are in more marginalized groups. So, for example, you have access as a man. Men have access to things that others may not have, assuming you're a white man in particular. And so understanding where you might be able to give some of that advantage that you have to those who are underrepresented groups. So for example, maybe give the stage to a woman or a person of color when you're invited to speak on a panel or in a conference. Perhaps you're speaking a woman's or a person of color's name in the room when an opportunity comes up to promote them for some stretch assignment or promotion.

11:29So really thinking about ways where you can support those groups that have a steeper climb up the path of success because of some of these biases that we've been talking about would be the place I would start with the men in the room. Yeah, I absolutely love this, Kim. You know, just a quick thought on that, you know, of maybe extending ourselves just a little bit more beyond what might even feel normal or comfortable. And I think, Kim, sometimes, I mean, I can talk about myself, like, we always want to be authentic in this, and we don't want to come across, you know, as if we're pandering or anything of that nature.

12:07But, you know, and I've had enough great conversations with DEI leaders that if anybody else has that insecurity there, it is really important for those who are champions and advocates and allies out there to do a little bit more because the reality is there's plenty of people that are not doing near enough. And there are workplaces where there is unfortunate disparity. You know, it's much like I've been thinking about this. I've been seeing these signs encouraging customers to be polite to the staff and you could be asked to leave. And so, you know, I think a simple thing that all of us can do is just be extra kind to outdo maybe some of the negativity.

12:47It's that same principle out there. And this, I believe, and it inspires other people. It certainly, again, can outdo some damage and not just damage of the past, but current damage that continues to happen out there. But I do love this concept. Thank you so much for sharing that message. You're welcome. So, Kim, tell me a bit about the work that you do now. So your website is Kim Jones Alliance. Obviously, you do both individual coaching and then you also work. It looks like you work with organizations as well. Do you mind maybe just kind of explaining a bit more about what that looks like? Yeah, sure.

13:25So I can start with the work that I do on a one-on-one basis. So I do individual coaching with two primary groups, women who are in leadership and women who are in the tech industry. And we work on the kinds of things we've been talking about here, which is how those women can navigate and chart their own path to success. Often it starts with just defining what it is that they want to accomplish in their work and really building a brand around that. So often as women, we think that in order for us to step up and lead in greater capacities, we have to know everything about every area that we're responsible for.

13:59Otherwise, we might begin to feel like imposters or like we're not qualified or we're going to get challenged. And by developing a brand around what it is that you do incrementally better than your colleagues, what is your secret sauce, if you will, that allows you to play in the lane that you do exceptionally well and surround yourself with the resources that can help support you in areas where you're not maybe as strong. So an example of this for myself is that I came over to IT from the business side. I did not grow up through the technology industry. And that could be a very easy way for me to sort of take myself out of the game or not even look at that opportunity because clearly people could challenge me on whether I'm qualified based on just technical skills.

14:39But when I looked at myself as being a transformational leader who was capable of leading teams through large scale transformations in organizations. And I played in that brand and in that lane, then I was able to sort of speak confidently from the value that I was adding versus worrying about all the things that I didn't know that were in my domain and, and who would be, you know, who I could partner with to make sure I was well covered and fully conversant in those areas. So that's where we start. And the one-on-one coaching is really working with people to understand what they bring, what they want to accomplish, how it aligns with the organizational mission, and how they can use that to grow in their own career path.

15:20The work that I do with companies is centered around inclusive leadership and team building, really building the kinds of leadership teams that are based on strengths-based leadership principles that have high levels of emotional intelligence that are psychologically safe. I teach about this at UCLA Extension as part of their technology management program. So I work with tech leaders of both genders to help them build the kinds of environments where everyone can thrive, because ultimately that's what drives top performance and helps them build strong, strong, loyal, and engaged workforces that help them as leaders accomplish their highest potential as well.

16:03Yeah. Kim, your website, kimjonesalliance.com, and perhaps you have some other resources, someone who may have stumbled upon our conversation. Maybe they're already kind of aware of the work that you do, and now they're just kind of listening to our message today. For someone that wants to maybe spend a little bit more time virtually with you, what would those next steps be? I mean, ultimately, hopefully, you know, leading to a conversation where I think really great work gets done. But what's next for our friend that's listening? Yeah. So there's lots of great information resources on my website.

16:41So you can check out other places that I have shown up to talk about other various and various aspects of my work. So I've got an in the news page on my website that you can check out that has links to other podcasts that I've done. And I've got my blog posts out there as well, if you want to check some of those out. And then ultimately, if you'd like to chat about some of the concepts here, there's a way to book a call with me as well. And we can go deeper into any of the topics here that might be of interest to your listeners. Yeah, you do quite some impressive speaking as well, which I'm on your events page.

17:18So, you know, certainly, you know, for someone that has some say over upcoming events, it looks like, Kim, you have some opportunity to do some real good. in this format as well. Yeah. I actually have a number of different workshops that I offer, both virtually and in person. I do everything from leadership retreats to team building, to focused workshops on topics like building accountable cultures, giving good feedback, how to navigate gender bias in the workplace. Just to name a few, I talk about my own journey to the C-suite for those audiences that are interested in just understanding how they can work their way up.

17:53And my message there, I think, is particularly important for people who feel like the only weight at the top is if you build a certain credential list versus how I've done it and how I coach others to do it, which is to understand what you bring from a leadership capability that can be leveraged into great value for your organization. So yeah, definitely check out that page as well and reach out if you want to chat more. Kim Jones, you're an executive leadership career coach and a gender equity advisor, consultant, keynote speaker, your website, Kim Jones Alliance.com. Kim, thank you so much for the conversation.

18:29Oh my gosh. Thank you. This was so fun.

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