2001 – Leading with Generosity: Balancing Giving and Gaining from 2000 Conversations

0:05Hey there, thoughtful listener. Are you looking for introductions to partners, investors, influencers, influencers, influencers, and clients? Well, I've had private conversations with over 2 ,000 leaders asking them where their best business comes from. I've got a free video you can watch with no opt-in required where I'll share the exact steps necessary to be 100 % inbound in your industry over the next six to eight months with no spam, no ads, and no sales. What I teach has worked for me for over 15 years and has helped me create eight figures in revenue for my own companies. Just head to upmyinfluence.com and watch my free class on how to create endless high-ticket sales appointments.

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1:05Hey everyone, and welcome to a very special series of The Thoughtful Entrepreneur. I'm Elisa Nolan, Chief Operating Officer here at Up My Influence. And if you've been tuning in for a while, you probably know that I'm usually behind the scenes. But today, the tables have turned, and I'm stepping in as your guest host for this week. Why? Because we're celebrating a huge milestone, 2 ,000 episodes. And to mark the occasion, and we're doing something a little different. Josh Elledge, our usual host, is in the hot seat today. I'm here. We're going to dive deep into what makes The Thoughtful Entrepreneur so special.

1:46We're taking a look back at some of the key themes that have shaped the podcast over the years. But before we get into that, I think it's important to go back to the beginning. So Josh, let's start with a bit of history. Yeah. Thoughtful Entrepreneur began back in 2018, and it wasn't even focused on podcasting at first. We were doing PR work at the time, and this podcast was originally created to interview our then current clients. Can you share with us what inspired you to start the podcast back then and how it evolved from just a PR tool into what it is today? Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. So, and by the way, PR tool, that's, again, if folks know who we are and what we do, I can understand the delineation there.

2:31My background in podcasting, and again, you know, for someone that's been listening to this, if you've listened to a bunch of episodes, you may have picked up on, you know, kind of my background going into this. But I often really try to take these episodes and shine the spotlight on our guest. So I am delighted to maybe share some behind-the-scenes stuff and some story stuff that folks don't normally get to hear, Elisa. So thank you so much for arranging this. Okay, so backing up the truck a little bit. I was in broadcast journalism in the United States Navy long ago. Then went to college, studied family therapy, and then started a string of small businesses.

3:13And several of them were in and around some aspect of media, eventually culminating in with my company, Savings Angel, where I became a consumer expert and a syndicated newspaper consumer expert in 13 cities. I mean, I've been in the media serving audiences over 2 ,500 times. And so that's just kind of what I've been doing historically. And so the Savings Angels show was kind of my first podcast. And Elisa, I started that, no joke, in 2007. I mean, back then, the term podcasting was still fairly new. I mean, it was, you know, really just not as ubiquitous as it is today. There were very few celebrities, certainly, that were in the podcasting space.

4:09But I was taking my own podcast. I was recording my radio segments. I was chopping them up into MP3s, putting them up on my own server. I hope you don't mind me backing up the truck a little bit because I think it's interesting. But yeah, so I would take these recordings off the radio, trim them up, upload them to my own server, hand code my own RSS feed at the time, and then somehow that managed to get into iTunes, the predecessor to Apple Podcast. So since 2007, well, then I kind of officially launched the official Savings Angel show after a while, which was more of a true podcast. You know, a few hundred episodes, a couple hundred episodes of that show.

4:53But you're right. Then the Thoughtful Entrepreneur came about. And it's really, I think, Elisa, when we think about like as leaders, you know, it's probably a really, really, really great idea to stick with what we know, to go where other people don't go at the level at which our passion allows us. So what I mean by that is if I have the capacity to do something a la Atomic Habits that other people get bored with, would other people be willing to do a couple of thousand episodes of a podcast? Most wouldn't. The vast majority of people wouldn't. But because for some reason, the way I'm wired is I'm cool with it.

5:32I like meeting people. If it's my personality, lo and behold, here is the thoughtful entrepreneur. And so to our friend that's listening, you may not even know what we do professionally. It's okay. Like, I'm glad that you and I have a relationship that we're able to spend time together. It's great. Like, I'm honored. And so, you know, to your point, Elise, I think some of the behind the scenes, like evolutions about my influence have been relatively invisible to our audience. All they know is, you know, they come here for very quick profiles of successful leaders who are doing great things, particularly for those folks that are in the B2B world that really want to hear from smart, competent, successful leaders.

6:17And so that's really the intention of the Thoughtful Entrepreneur. And again, we try to fit that, you know, within a quick car commute. And certainly if you even listen to me at 1.5x speed, God have mercy on your soul. You know, that's a very short commute potentially. Well, before we get into some of the bigger themes, let's talk a bit about the nuts and bolts of running the show. What's your process for preparing for interviews? And how has that changed over the years as you've done more and more episodes? Yeah, yeah. So, and listen to any other content creator out there where you are engaging and collaborating with guests and other people.

6:56at the beginning, I think we all deserve, our guest certainly deserves our diligence, right? So when I have a guest on the show, my job is to give them an incredible experience. I don't generally hit guests with gotcha questions. My job is not necessarily to put them on the hot seat. My job really is to advocate for the listener. Elisa, one thing that I know about our show is we get a lot of what are called long tail listens, meaning that a lot of people find episodes of this show because it's well-placed from an SEO perspective. So someone is searching for the content that we're talking about or our guest.

7:42And so certainly we have a great roster. And thank you so much for like the daily listeners or the folks that binge listen to a bunch of episodes in a row. But a lot of people are just, they're really interested in topics and people. So they search and they listen to this podcast long-term. Well, what's amazing, and I'll get to kind of show prep here in just a second, is now with a vast library of 2 ,000 episodes, what an incredible asset that is to begin relationships with potential new partners, clients, audience members, fans, that's friends, you know, that sort of thing. So now, getting back to your question about how I do show prep, in the beginning, I would absolutely spend at least like if I was doing a 20 minute interview, I was doing at least 20 minutes worth of show prep.

8:34Like I just didn't want to feel like a fool. I was a little bit more again, new. So I would probably want to write out my questions a little bit more. And I definitely did that. Now, again, it's kind of like an atomic habits, the more you do something, the better you get at it. So what I found is much like, you know, when I was doing some volunteer teaching for high schoolers and stuff, you know, when I started that volunteer work, I had to do a lot of prep. And then it got easier so that I pretty much was able to, you know, do much lighter prep each evening, right? And so in this case, too, you know, with the podcast, there's two things that I need.

9:13So for future guests, and if you are guesting, on a podcast and the host is pretty competent. They likely may have a team that might be gathering notes about you, but honestly, the guests who provide great Intel, man, does that make my job easier? Now, if I don't get great Intel, then here's what I'm going to do is I'm going to spend some time on my guests' LinkedIn profile. I'm not only going to look at what they're sharing. So listen, to future guests, please keep your LinkedIn updated because you never know where centers of influence or partners or whatever are gathering their information. So, you know, once a quarter, go review your LinkedIn and make sure it's updated.

9:56That's number one. Number two, and here's another thing, is the number two place I look, Alisa, is the About page on my guest's website. And again, if that's old, if it's outdated, if it's inaccurate, it just creates a lot more confusion. So again, I will rely on stuff that folks are sent to me. But today, and again, to other content creators, if you're frustrated that podcasting takes a long time, it gets easier the more you do it. So I'll just say that I don't spend 30 minutes each time now. Usually I'm really good. And also, too, when you've done this a couple thousand times, I love giving myself the freedom to ask questions in the moment.

10:43So while a listener may know that there are a few questions that I commonly will throw in there, I love the freedom of being able to improv in the moment. And so with context, I feel like I can ask better questions, but from a listener's, advocating for the listener's perspective, it's my job to be in the moment, be on the fly, respond to things that a guest just said, rather than, you know, not even listening and just going through my plain old list of the same old five questions over and over again. And especially because we produce, you know, anywhere from 10 to 15 episodes a week. I mean, we're not, we're sharing seven episodes a week, but, you know, we usually record so many.

11:33So, you know, we wouldn't want to have the same boring questions every single day. Yeah. Yeah, no, no, that's what I would, that's what I would think, right? And so, again, in the back of my mind, I'm thinking if my listener were here right now and they genuinely want to know about this guest. And again, the way that I like to think of it is that for me, when I go to events, I like learning things. But I can learn things everywhere and anywhere. And so I'm always into that now. But when I go to an event, one of the most valuable aspects of conferences, trade shows, et cetera, are the relationships that I make.

12:20So my hope with The Thoughtful Entrepreneur is that this show, I am kind of like your advocate and the concierge that is going to introduce you, the listener, to the guest. And so I just, again, I want to be very mindful of the things that my listener might be wanting to know or concerned about. Or, you know, a lot of times you'll hear me when I'm talking with people, I'm like, hey, someone might be a little nervous about reaching out. Maybe they don't want to waste your time. They don't want to waste their time. But tell me, da-da-da-da-da-da, right? And so I'm like trying to give clarity as to whether or not the listener should take the next steps to engage.

13:05And if so, what might those next steps be look like? Maybe it's just watch some videos. Maybe it's subscribe to their podcast. Maybe it's actually book a call. And so I like to be able to help folks identify what that right path is for them. That's such a great insight into your process. And it just really shows how much thought goes into every episode. Yeah. So now let's talk about one of the guiding principles that's been with you throughout this journey, the go-giver philosophy. I know it's something you've been passionate about for a long time, and it's really shaped how you approach everything, not just in business, but in life.

13:46What was it about the go-giver philosophy that first resonated with you? And how has it influenced the way you've conducted interviews and built relationships with your guests? Yeah. So listen, and I want to, again, just kind of connect heart to heart with our entrepreneurial friend that might be listening. Because I remember what it's like to be in business for yourself and you love what you do. And you want to do what's in your zone of genius. Like, that's your passion. Like, if you're a leadership coach, that's really what you want to do. and so when you say great i'm going to go into business for myself i'm going to be a consultant i'm going to start an agency i'm going to coach or whatever your thing is right um then you get going on that and then you start to run out of warm market and you're like okay well what am i supposed to do now and then some guru comes along and says well yeah you got to do all this salesy and sales bro-y sales and marketing stuff and then the person's like ew i don't like doing that but But if you're saying that's the necessary evil that I have to do in order, it's so that I can do what I really want to do, I fundamentally disagree with that premise.

15:02I just don't think that that's the case. Yes, there are a lot of hats that we need to wear in business for each other, but the go-giver presents a way that we can always stay in integrity with who we are. Again, if you have no problem being a bro-y salesperson or marketer, God bless you. Okay, keep doing what you're doing if that works for you. The vast majority of high-level leaders that Alisa, you and I work with, we've launched somewhere between 200 and 250 podcasts with the show. All of our clients are six - to eight-figure business leaders. They're all very, very good at what they do. They're all very collaborative in their approach to how they grow and build their businesses.

15:50And they're very relationship-oriented, right? So if you identify with that, then the go-giver is really, and particularly, it doesn't really matter if you're B2B or whatever, but if you're in business for yourself, there is no better way to do business today. Right. Because what we like to do is we like to do business with others in in the way that that or in other words, we we should like it feels really good to go out and do business with others in the way that we want other people to do business with us. So when we're out of alignment there, and maybe you're slamming DMs and sending a cold spam and people are emailing you back saying, get lost spammer, like that feels awful.

16:38When you feel pressure to have to use these manipulative sales and closing tactics and techniques, that just doesn't feel good. And it's going to burn you out. So as an entrepreneur, what I want to let you know is that with the right relationships, certainly with the right volume of meaningful relationships. Now, I'm not talking social media followers. I'm talking about people that you have a meaningful relationship with, like someone who likes you. They consider you their friend, right? You've invested into that friendship. You care about them personally, right? If you can stay in that zone with a couple of hundred other leaders, you are set for life.

17:24When you get going, doing business in a go-giver way, initially, it will feel like what you're doing is ineffective. The reality is you will get to a point where you will not be able to out-give the market. You just got to get in. You have to lead with noble intent. There's no faking this. Stop going into relationships with a transactional mindset. Just go into relationships with providing the greatest amount of value you can, and then And you get to be open to whatever the outcome is. If you can do that, I'm telling you, it is so freeing. And after a few short months, you will get nearly everything you want in business, or it'll start to come your way.

18:06Everything's coming up Milhouse for you. So all you got to do, listen, if you want to chat about this, like if you're like, wow, I mean, I really love this. Two things. Number one, go read The Go-Giver if you have not read The Go-Giver, please. That is step one. Step two, let's grab 30 minutes. Like if you're good at what you do, you generally work with high-level people, grab 30 minutes with me. I don't know if it makes sense for us to work together. I don't know if I can even help, but I suspect I probably have some ideas and I probably have some connections given the fact that I talk to about six to 10 new leaders every single week.

18:41We've got a roster of 200 to 250 clients that we've launched. We're really good at what we do. We have huge networks. We know a lot of great people. Chances are pretty good. there's some opportunity for us. And I love hearing opportunities. If you're B2B, generally work with higher level folks, hey, come find me over at Up My Influence. I'd love to find out what you're doing and see if there's some immediate collaboration or partnership opportunities for us. Or maybe I can help facilitate a bunch of introductions your way. That's completely up to you. We'll figure that out. All right. So to start things off, we've got to hear from the guy.

19:16We're just starting. Is that right now? What's that? People are like looking at their watch like, we've been going now for quite a while and now we're just getting started? But I need to share this clip. I better shorten my answers, Elisa. We have got to hear from the guy who's been such a big influence on both of us, Bob Berg. This clip is from back in May 2022 when we had him on the show. Bob really nails down what it means to be a go-giver and why leading with generosity isn't just good for business, but for life in general. What are the basic tenets of a go-giver philosophy, whether that's in sales, as an influencer, in business in general, or in life, or someone, again, who's not in business for themselves, but yet wants to extol that go-giver philosophy in all they do?

20:09Yeah, the basic premise, Josh, is simply this. It's that shifting your focus, and this is really where it begins, shifting your focus from getting to giving. And when we say giving in this context, we simply mean constantly and consistently providing immense value to others, understanding that doing so is not only a more fulfilling way of conducting business and living life, it's also the most profitable way as well. And not for any kind of way out there, woo-woo, magical, mystical type of reasons. Not at all. It's actually very rational. It makes very logical sense. When you're that person who can take your focus off of yourself and place it on serving others, on discovering what they need, what they want, what they desire, when you can be focused on helping them solve their challenges and problems, when you can be focused not on yourself, but on helping them to move closer to happiness, whatever that means to them, people feel good about you.

21:09People want to get to know you. They like you. They trust you. They want to be in relationship with you. They want to be a part of your life. They want to do business with you when that's appropriate. They certainly want to tell others about you. They want to be your personal walking ambassador. So in all the books that John and I have co-authored, John David Mann, my excellent co-author, that we've worked on together, that's always the basic premise. And, you know, I think if we think about it from being in the other position, we know what it feels like to be seen as a piece of meat or, you know, where we're engaging with someone and we can tell that it's all about them.

21:51And I would argue, having studied and led on consumer behavior for the past 15 years, you know, people have been exposed to being bombarded with advertising so much that you've created a hyper-resistant population that is on guard, you know, to being sold at. Whether it's someone sliding into our DMs with some artificial come on or cold email or just walking up to us and we feel it. And again, I think in the consumer's brains, our antennae are just finely tuned now. And I don't think that you can get away with a, you know, kind of more of a smarmy, what do I got to do to get you into this baby kind of attitude, especially if I'm thinking about the sales component of leveraging more of a go-giver philosophy.

22:42Well, you know, one of the things I say whenever I speak at sales conferences, one of the first things I'll say is nobody's going to buy from you because you have a quota to meet. Okay, they're not going to buy from you because you need the money. They're not even going to buy from you because you're a really nice person. They're going to buy from you because they believe that they will be better off by doing so than by not doing so. And that's fine. At first, it's the only reason why anyone should buy from you or from me or from anyone else. But it's also great news for that entrepreneur or that sales professional who really can place their focus on serving, on bringing immense value to that other person.

23:25This is why John and I say that money is simply an echo of value, right? It's the thunder, if you will, to values lightning, which means nothing more than that the value must be the focus, the value you're providing another person, the money you receive is simply a natural result of the value you've provided. But, you know, you brought up a great point earlier that it's not just in sales. It can be in any, first of all, leadership, nobody's going to follow you because you want them to, but because you're able to tie into their needs, wants, desires, values, goals, or in a personal relationship.

23:59Are you thinking more about yourself or are you thinking more about how you can bring value to that other person in the relationship, whether it's personal, social, whatever it happens to be. So really the universal laws apply across the board, whether we're talking about success in terms of financial, physical, spiritual, mental, emotional, social, relational, what have you. Bob really encapsulates the essence of the go-giver philosophy so well. Over the years, you've had so many guests who also embody this mindset of giving first. How have you seen the go-giver principles come to life through the stories your guests have shared?

24:39And can you think of any specific moments or interviews where a guest's generosity or commitment to adding value really stood out to you? Yeah, absolutely. So when we think about how we give, right, and Bob will tell you this, right? And so Bob does not spend all of his time freely with everyone because he can't, right? There's only so much to our capacity and our bandwidth and so forth. So we have to compartmentalize or we have to categorize where and how we show up in generosity. I believe that one of the most important things, Alisa, to answer your question, that a guest can do is to really work hard on their stories, right?

25:27And to tell their stories, not from a perspective of what's going to get the cash register ringing, what's going to get those people coming in, what's going to get those phone calls, what's going to get those opt-ins. Listen, I understand we always have to have a business objective to what we do. There needs to be justification from a profit standpoint in business and so forth. Okay. But what I'm going to tell you is that your commitment to changing hearts and inspiring hearts and minds has a direct correlation to your results. And your ability to cohesively give these elevator pitches and these calls to action, that's not as important to people feeling like they get you, that you understand them, that they understand you, that they feel like they have a connection to you.

26:19So one of the most important things from a generosity perspective is to really work on empathy. And empathy meaning not thinking about the audience as a whole, but thinking about one individual listener. So, Elisa, I would say the level at which guests do that, it ranges wildly. The best guests are the ones that tell me ahead of time that they say, listen, I am here to serve. And my goal is to, like, in my mind, you know, it's like, okay, let's say that I was getting paid to give$50 ,000 worth of value to every single person in this room. That's my job. But I'm not allowed to ask for any money.

27:11And anything I do has to be constrained within what I can do in this 20 minutes and or give away freely with no expectation of return. Those are the ground rules. If you as a guest can play that little exercise and say, how can I make it more valuable? How can I make it more valuable? How can I make it more valuable? And you keep playing that exercise, you're likely going to change what you share with folks. And you know what's going to happen? Elisa is, sorry to not give any concrete read examples. I mean, it's, you know, admittedly there, it does kind of blur and blend together a little bit after a couple of thousand of these.

27:56But, you know, there are stories that have been shared with me and conversations before and afterwards that truly are life-changing. And it's amazing how often I feel like the perfect guest just comes along at the perfect moment. And we have this amazing connection. We do great stuff together, or they inspire me to ask a question or to kind of get introspective about something. I mean, it's really, I'm in a very enviable position where I get to get free coaching and consulting every single day because I'm talking with really, really smart people. And sometimes the questions I ask are quite frankly, just the things I need to know.

28:34Even if I say, Alisa, I've got this friend and this friend has, you know, that's, that's code for Josh. Speaking of moments that stand out, can you share a moment when you realized the podcast was making a significant impact, not just in terms of downloads or metrics, but in the way it was really resonating with people or changing the way they think? Yes. And this is, I think this is again, going to surprise folks that are content creators. When I look at, and this is the whole premise behind what we do at Up My Influence. If you want to become a content creator because your grand vision is to assemble a large audience and the larger the audience is, the better.

29:23And then therefore, the more money you're going to make, that is one possible path forward. That's hard. It's hard today because there is so much content. So you're competing with people that have huge name recognition and maybe better production and better whatever, right? And so, but to answer your question, and again, to my fellow content creators, this is perhaps why you and I should talk. The entire strategy behind what we're doing is primarily serve audiences, celebrate guests, and to inspire audiences. But our primary goal, like, you know, when we think about all of these benefits that we get out there, one of our primary goals is to connect personally with these guests and explore just to see if there's any opportunities for us.