2106 – Building Brand Loyalty Through Strategic Mobile Messaging with Vibes' Alex Campbell

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1:05With us right now, it's Alex Campbell. Alex, you are the co-founder of Vibes. Your website is vibes.com. Great domain name. And you've worked with some pretty big brands. Before we explain what you do, I'll just say who you've worked with. You've worked with amazing companies like Chipotle, Ulta, Children's Place, Napa, Kohl's, Allstate, KFC, Crocs. A few brands that people have heard of. But Alex, it's great to have you. Yeah, it's great to be here. I'm excited about this. Yeah. Yeah. Explain what Vibes is, like what you do, the problem you solve in the world. Yeah, absolutely. So we're mobile messaging.

1:43We do mobile marketing via messaging. We've been at it for, I mean, it's funny you talk about the domain name. You know, we got that domain name a long time ago. We've been doing this for 20 plus years. So, you know, it's a really interesting space, you know, as brands start to realize that they can communicate with their consumers via text and what's coming up with RCS. You know, it's a wild world and it's great to see the progress going on. And so like go back to your question, what do we do? We help those brands that you mentioned, plus a bunch more, actually do that interaction. So in the messaging world, you have to be very careful because you have to make sure you're providing value to consumers.

2:25You know, but if you sign up for it to get text messages from a brand, we need to make sure that those messages are helpful and not intrusive. and so yeah, I mean, it's been a wild ride. Well, look, I just, I recently had an episode where we talked about this, but I would be absolutely remiss if someone was only listening to this episode and we didn't have this conversation and that is about how the laws have changed over the past year or so and I'm hoping maybe you could just give us a 101. Here we are in January of 2025 when this episode is being aired and a lot of changes have happened. In fact, I think there was just recently, as I've been recording this, there was actually just a major, either a change or an enforcement a handful of days ago, if I'm not mistaken.

3:13Yeah, well, I mean, what we're talking about is TCPA, right? So TCPA comes from where, you know, the robocalls and all those calls that you, they've actually kind of calmed down a little bit. They have, yeah, they're getting better, getting better, except for election season. And God have mercy on our souls for, I think we've all got a little PTSD for going through that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, the election. So, yes. Yeah, so I'll fill you in on one thing. In TCPA, there are two parties that are immune to TCPA, one of which politicians. So all the rules that you have to follow with like opting in and getting someone's permission, which honestly I think makes the channel better.

3:53Oh gosh, absolutely. Yeah, I don't want to send a text message to someone who doesn't want it. That's intrusive. So to me, the fact that, and by the way, this has happened in the US more than overseas. In the US, the carriers did a good job of saying, hey, we're going to protect this and make sure that we are fighting spam, we're fighting any of these scams that are coming in because we don't want that experience for our customers. I mean, when you think about it, if you get a spam message, you're not calling, you know, whoever sent you that message, you're calling your carrier. So you're calling AT &T saying, hey, I got this.

4:30And that's a real cost to them, right? So they want to minimize that. So in the U.S., the carriers have actually done a really good job of keeping this channel free of that. I mean, you get the occasional spam, you know, usually it's from a 10-digit number. And that's someone who's kind of figured out how to go around the carriers and all that. But when you look at messages from trusted parties, they come from a six digit number. And those are those have been vetted. They have been qualified and you have opted in. Right. And so, you know, the opt in nature really and it ties back to the to why marketing is so effective here is because you have, you know, millions of hand raisers who have said, I want your message.

5:11I want to hear from you. I want I want you to send something to me. And that's why we're seeing, you know, click through rates, you know, averaging like 20, 30%. And so that's, that's really what makes it so amazing from a marketing perspective. Oh, yeah. Well, so obviously, you know, when you're working with a big brand like Chipotle, do you mind maybe sharing a few examples of how you've worked with them and what the opportunity was or what the gap was? And what I'm really curious about is maybe some of the, like how you deconstructed, like, I don't know if they came in and they said, Alex, this is exactly what we need.

5:49You know, we don't need your advice on anything. Or, you know, is there a discovery process that leads to best practices that are going to help them achieve the outcome that they really want? They might just, you know, value from some of your experience and wisdom and what's working now. Yeah, I mean, absolutely. I think it's actually twofold to that. One is there is a big trend going on that has been going on for years where people are not really paying attention to traditional advertising that they've seen in the past. They have, you know, forget TV, right? Because you have the, you know, the TiVos and DVRs of the world where I can skip ads.

6:26You've got ad blockers on your computer. Like you now have a focused inbox and a non-focused inbox in your email. So, and it's interesting to see that the marketing side of how brands communicate to consumers, it's been very intrusive, right? Yes. Right. And so from our perspective, and I'll go back to Chipotle in two seconds, but one of our approaches is your phone is a mission driven device. So you pull it out when you have a mission. It is a tool for you to fulfill that mission. And it's funny, I've been tested on a lot of panels of like, what about this? What about when I'm checking ESPN? And it's like, no, but your mission there is I want to find out the score of the game.

7:10And so anything that gets in the way of that mission. So, I mean, we've all seen it where you get that, it's usually a car company, you get that takeover ad that plays automatically for 15 seconds. You can't skip it. That's annoying because it got in the way of your mission, right? So what we always try and tell our customers is, what is your buyer doing along the journey? And how can you use mobile to help them along that way? So going back to one of our customers or any of our customers, if Chipotle has an offer that they want you to know about, texting someone that offer is incredibly helpful.

7:49It's helpful for both parties. And me as the consumer, I'm not always on Chipotle's website. I'm not always checking it out, but if they have something going on today, I mean, they do certain things with, you know, with, with guac and some of their products. But if I just got a text at 1130, it's like, oh, that actually helped me take advantage of that offer. That was really helpful. So that actually helped my mission of saving money and shopping with someone like Chipotle. So what we always try and say is we go back to like, let's make sure that mobile marketing helps in that mission rather than gets in the way.

8:23right it's the messages you get that's like you know my you know for us i always think of the like hey this weekend 10 off right why did you text that don't text that you could email that you could you could put that on your website but if there's an offer that i really would want and i'm excited about ai because ai is going to help yeah exactly yeah ai is going to do a great job and we're already seeing these crazy numbers come out from black friday um where um you know this black Friday, there was a 26 % increase in click-through versus last year. And this is taking the exact same consumers.

8:58And that's because we're starting to use AI to match things up that are relevant to you that you actually want, right? And then you're going to see a much higher click-through. And so that's going to help continually create better experiences for consumers. Oh my gosh. Imagine, you know, I'm thinking about this and I'm really, you know, excited about the consumer experience here and and and maybe you're already doing this but here's what i imagine right it's like you open up the duncan app and all of a sudden you're just like talking with the duncan bot or whatever right and it says hey um just out of curiosity like i have like freebies and coupons and deals and stuff i can send you is is that something you'd be interested in and you're like yes or no and like yeah it's like cool i want to go i want to go yeah how good does the deal need to be how often would you like to receive it how would you like to receive it and it's like i can completely meet you as a consumer wherever you are that's our future and and probably way beyond what i'm envisioning here yeah i mean ideally what i see coming is where and i don't know the time frame for this but but where i mean take that exact example you were talking about with duncan is Duncan has data.

10:12Like they know who you are as a customer. They know when you come in, they know what you buy. So if I'm the AI there, or if I'm trying to get you a message, first of all, I don't probably want to get you a coupon on the coffee that you come in every day, right? You're going to come in because that's your habit. Regardless, right? You want to match something up that I think you would actually be interested in that you may not know about, right? So maybe it's a, I mean, go back to just straight up easy. like, hey, we have a deal at, you know, two in the afternoon and you can come get the same thing you get in the morning for 10 % off.

10:47Right. Like to me, that's where you say, hey, I OK, thank you. Like, I didn't know you had 10 % off and I can go get something that I already wanted, like easier. Right. To me, that's where AI can match up this data that brands have. I mean, we've run into a lot of brands who have collected all this data. Right. And they're like, I don't quite know what to do. What do we, yeah, right. What do we do? Help us mine this data for profitability. And Alex and your team comes in and your platform. Sorry, you got a big team here, but like. And that to me goes back to like, that's good marketing, right?

11:24I don't want marketing that is irrelevant to me that I don't really, that I don't like getting. And this is why, I mean, I love being in this space because there's no room for wiggling, right? If we send out a message that you don't want, Like we're going to see people opt out and then they're gone, right? They're gone. They're gone for good. I mean, you could probably get them back, but that's a whole process. So what I want to make sure of is when we send out messages, we're looking at is this content resonating with consumers. And we've seen the more segmented we can get, the higher the customers actually like it.

11:57Right. And so that's what when I think of AI, that's going to help in that process of get more relevant information to you as the consumer that you actually like. Right. Alex, can you tell me a little bit about Vibes, the company? You guys have been around forever. Do you mind just you don't have to go too much into the history. But, you know, what I'm curious about is kind of like where Vibes is going, particularly over the next year or so. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, going way back. So I started Vibes with a friend of mine from kindergarten. Oh, my gosh. Crazy. One bedroom apartment up in Wrigleyville in Chicago.

12:33Yeah, there's a couple of Chicago boys. Yeah, there you go. It's actually funny. We moved from the East Coast to Chicago to start the company. Oh, wow. Interesting. Yeah. And so, but yeah, that was a long time ago. It's a great market. It's a great city. It's one of my favorite big cities. Yeah, absolutely. And so, but we've always had this idea of kind of what I've been talking about, right? Mobile is coming and marketing is there. If we can bring these two worlds together in a way that is unique to how mobile works, that's going to be really powerful. So that's always been our kind of North Star and guide.

13:08I think when we think about where things are going, I mean, I'm very excited about AI, as we talked about. The other thing that's coming is something called RCS. So RCS is called rich communication messaging. So think of anybody who was on an iOS device and Apple who went from text messaging to iMessage where you get the blue bubble and you can send videos and you can respond with tap backs and stuff like that. That's now coming to everybody. And so if you have Android or Apple, you will have access to RCS. there is a there's a business component that's called rbm which will allow us to send out messages via rcs that are way more um you know rich and and and you can respond to them more easily you can actually buy things through text messaging yeah that's now coming so that has been released um you know here in the united states and we're working with our customers to really figure out what are these new use cases that I can do where what if I don't have to have someone download an app to buy something, right?

14:11Like I could send you, you know, take something like abandoned cart, right? You were shopping, you got distracted, you went away. We can actually send you a text saying, hey, did you want this with a picture of it? And you can just tap it and say, yes, and buy it, right? Like that's a whole new world. And so as RCS continues to roll out in the United States, that's really exciting for us, especially now you go back to and pair it with AI, where the AI is sitting there and understands all this data. What that really means is, you know, Josh is interested in this. And now I can send him an actionable message saying, hey, go do this, like, go take advantage of this right now.

14:50Like, that's really cool. It's so exciting. I think, you know, the future of marketing too is, you know, we've had just such this glut and I unfortunately think of a lot of amateur marketers have ruined a lot of consumer experiences so as a result I think that you know consumers have become just so hyper resistant to being sold inappropriately at the wrong time the wrong place with the wrong offer that unfortunately all that noise has really just I think damaged a lot of communication platforms and I agree with you that the future is customization personalization and it feels like Like, here's what I want, right?

15:26It's like, I want to feel like I've got a friend over at, you know, we're going to use one of your clients. A friend over at Chipotle, right? And what I want is I want the buddy at Chipotle that's going to keep me informed with only the stuff I want to know and knows me better than I know myself so that it can suggest opportunities or offers that are going to be relevant to the season, the weather, the time. like all of these factors that are just like all of these data points that are out there and you know anticipates my desire to eat chipotle with my 18 year old like better than i do right i mean that that is hitting the nail on the head right and that's when we talk to our brands around around like you know all right like sms and texting is a personal you're doing with your yes it is yeah think of if chipotle were your friend yes what do you want from them you certainly don't want them to just text you all the time being like come in tomorrow come in tomorrow right right exactly which unfortunately that's a lot of what's been going on but all of a sudden if chipotle is like hey i got something i know who you are and i really think you would be interested in this and you'd like this if that text comes across it's like thank you like that was great and here i'll give you 10 off or something some sort of incentive to come in and try it like that's cool like that's good mobile marketing right and that's why i go back to like the data and AI, like that finally, like the fact that that's there now, that allows us to have that new level of personalization that really will make you working with you communicating with a brand as if they know you.

17:03Right. And that, and that's great. That's great for everybody. All right. So you have some really great web resources on your website. So the website to our friend that's listening, go to vibes.com. And then when you go there, there's, I really, my gosh, let's talk about what's under the resources tab. You guys don't mess around. No, I mean, for us, I mean, look, this, this industry is, is relatively new. In fact, even though we've been doing this for 20 years, like, you know, it's still new. There's still exciting new things coming out. I would also say there's a lot of hype around certain things.

17:38And so part of our job as a company is, you know, one of our core values is create value, which sounds like, that sounds like, of course, everyone wants to create value, but there's a lot of things going on that we don't see actually create value. So our job as a company is to understand something like RCS. Is that going to create value for our customers? Like we think so? Yes. Augmented reality? Maybe not, right? Like sounds cool and looks cool. It's a shiny object. But what we've done in the resources section is we've kind of distilled all of these things that we hear. I mean, we're breathing, living and breathing this every day.

18:13I think your listeners are not, right? They just want to say like, hey, what do I need to really care about and what's real and what's not? So that part of our website, we go through a lot of those concepts that are out there and break things down for people. We go through here are the trends that we're seeing. Here's what's actually happening versus, oh, you probably heard this. Like, here's why that's not necessarily true or, you know, we can think about it in a different way. So that's a really cool resource for anyone who wants to like, who's curious about mobile messaging, marketing, you know, to kind of go there and learn what's really happening.

18:48And Alex, of course, to our friend that's listening, who is like, like, like, they really need to grab a conversation with you because they probably have some really easy paths forward to a very successful collaboration together. Like, what are the things that you look for? You're like, oh yeah, I can help in that situation. Yeah, I think it's interesting. I think there's two camps to that. One is someone who has been doing SMS or doing mobile marketing. And it's like, all right, we're seeing things kind of stagnate, right? You know, like kudos to anyone who's kind of gotten into the game. And then if you're seeing opt-out rates that are higher than, you know, like 0.1 % when you send, like you should talk to us, right?

19:34Because you're doing something. Something's not working there. And so I think people who have tried it, who have gotten into it, who are like, all right, I want to take this to the next level, that's someone I would love to talk to. On the flip side, someone who is thinking, all right, I know this is out there. I know consumers are using this. I just don't know where to start. I don't know what to do. That's someone else that we successfully talked to to be like, all right, let's take a step back. Let's figure out where this is going to have the maximum impact, and let's start there. Right? Love it.

20:06Vibes.com, Alex Campbell, you're the co-founder. Great conversation, exciting new world that we're entering into. And again, it's a great conversation. Thank you, Alex, for joining us. Yeah, thanks for having me. I appreciate it. It's fun.

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