2177 - Discovering Authentic Learning Experiences from Luma Brighter Learning's Gina Anderson

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1:05with us right now it's dr gina anderson uh dr gina you are the ceo and co-founder of luma brighter learning your website is lumabrighterlearning.com you are also the author of a couple of books one you're a co-author of and that's perspectives on invisible illnesses is, Living and Thriving Beyond What Can't Be Seen. And your other book, this is exciting. Congratulations on the launch of this book, Thrive, How Learning Can Ignite a New Way Forward. I have so many thoughts on this. And then finally, you are the host of the podcast, I Love Learning podcast, which to our friends listening right now, you could just do a search for it right now.

1:52Goodness, you got quite a few episodes here. Fantastic. So again, that podcast is I Love Learning. Well, Dr. Gina, thank you so much for joining us. Absolutely. Thank you for having me today. I'm so excited. Absolutely. Before we start talking about all your bona fides and the work that you do in the world, we're going to talk about learning. What do you do? Like, what have you been into lately? I don't know if you're watching anything, listening to anything, like just like anything that you're totally geeking out on lately? Okay. So this is, this is probably going to be really strange, but I run because it's hard.

2:26So what I do, what I've been doing lately is try to find like scavenger hunts in town, um, different things I can do to like, make it like, so I don't think about running because I hate, I don't enjoy running. It's not something I like to do. So nobody enjoys it. So let me tell you what they're doing. I've run a couple of marathons. It's very boring, but then there's, but, but, but go ahead, go ahead and keep talking. Yes. No, no, no. Cause we could talk all day about this cause your body hurts. So you got to keep your mind on something else. So Mount Pleasant, they just started doing these like, um, shells and they like any business can like decorate and paint these shells.

3:03And I started noticing them around town. And so I looked it up and like, you can buy one of these shells and then decorate it. And so I go out and I don't know where they put it. They don't have a map, which I think they should. Um, I go out and try to find these shells. So every time I find one, it's like a, it's like, it's so excited. And I take a picture. So it's kind of weird. I did it one time around Halloween too. Like I was had to go do this long run. And I said, I'm going to go try to find all the skeletons in town. So I like ran around this little town. It's old Mount Pleasant. And I counted like over 800 skeletons.

3:36Oh my gosh. And I took pictures of them. So it's kind of a weird hobby I do, but I make up these This is brilliant. I make it fun. Like, what should I go do a scavenger hunt on? Yeah. I mean, but this is like Atomic Habits, you know, where like you're pairing, you know, fun activities with things that, you know, maybe are good for you. But, you know, just to like, what is the benefit that you get from running? Like, what does it do for you personally or emotionally or spiritually? Yeah. So for me, running is hard. I write about it in my book. I don't like doing it. And so doing hard things actually makes you stronger.

4:12And so I do it because I am a CEO and I go through strong, you know, hard things all the time. So for me, running is a release of that stress and knowing I could do hard things like that. Like you said, running a marathon, or I know people that run ultras, those are hard, like, but it makes you stronger. So I do it. I do it to build confidence that I can do anything that's possible, but I need a little help. So these scavenger hunts really helped me. It's like, you know, a little extra boost. Well, I think that this segues so nicely into your area of expertise, you know, because when I think about learning and what I've learned is that like, so for example, like, you know, learning to, so I picked up the bass guitar about a year and a half ago.

4:53And, you know, I read something in a book and it really just, just, I mean, it was just a huge aha moment for me because I said, you know, whether you think you are learning or not is irrelevant. You are like if you're engaged in the activity. So like, you know, 60 days into Duolingo, learning Espanol and. Yeah. And it's just the activity of doing it. But, you know, to your point, though, it's it's when we so like, for example, like last night, I was I can just play along with songs and I can have a lot of fun. it probably helps me learn a little bit. But I think it's kind of like when they talk about language learning, when you're fully immersive, and it's really challenging.

5:45It's uncomfortable. You're struggling because you don't know what to say, and so your brain is searching. And so it's that discomfort that truly pushes us to growth. That's my working theory, Gina. Can you expound on that? You're like nodding and smiling like the whole time. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I love it. Cause I'm so passionate. My passion is the brain. So I'm a learning scientist and I love this stuff. So I'm going to geek out with you. So absolutely. You know, I just like released a research study just this past week on, I looked at the different ages of brains. So we talk about generations like zero to 11, 12, you know, the, the generations of different ages of brains.

6:29And there's a stereotype, you know, when you talk about generations, but it's the influences that we have today that are impacting like the technology on the neural transmissions, the gray and white matter in our brain. You can actually see the structural changes happening on scans in our brains as you look at what's going on in our environments. so I actually witnessed this in my own personal life um but in the sense when you stop learning when you stop problem solving and this is one of the things we could do a whole podcast on AI there's so many benefits but to the impacts on our brains I mean the thing is we stop we stop problem solving and engaging the neural transmitter so absolutely I could talk science and brain science all day but when you stop learning you stop living oh oh I so believe And I think so many of us, the type of person who listens to this podcast likely believes that to some degree as well.

7:28Dr. Gina, you know, on that note, I want to talk about AI. And when I would get your opinion on something, it's really interesting. I'd say, you know, October. I mean, I was using AI, using Chattapet quite a bit the first half of last year. And then into the fall, I really started using it a lot. And then like the last, I mean, since November, it feels like to me, I'm just noticing my own behavior, right? I have done away with the notion that I know everything or that I know anything, to be quite frank. you know it's like I really I don't know that you know the concept you know just tabula rosa like I'm just I'm assuming I know nothing and I go to chat GPT for nearly everything and I'm it's almost like I'm I'm resetting my ego and just and so just everything now I'm like okay well I want to plant these flowering cactuses here what I mean I could guess at that or I could pretend I know what I'm doing.

8:39But I know what the results of that look, look, don't last long. So that means just an example, but it's really fascinating because I feel like, and, and, and I can't, I mean, it sounds like weird to say this, but I feel like that over the past handful of months, I feel like I have been personally evolving at a rate never before in my life. Like I just, I'm just this, you're just obsessive passion for learning different things and really exploring. But most importantly, I think, you know, just kind of getting curious and introspective about myself and questioning all of my preconceived ideas. But it's going to be really exciting to see how AI impacts populations.

9:24What are you seeing or observing or any thoughts on this topic? Yeah, so it's very incredible the way you described it, right? So it's actually inspiring your creativity. it's engaging you in ways that you have never thought about but here's the danger there's positives like in that way and there's so many benefits I think it really defense it depends on how you define learning and how you engage in it so let me give you an example so I was on a podcast um like last week and I talked to the host and he said look I love AI because I don't ever have to think of a title again like I can just have AI generate a title for me and it's going to go viral.

10:06Like I have, I, he would told me a story about how he was at Michigan state university. When, when he was there, he would spend hours walking outside, listening to the birds, smelling, smelling the flowers, being in the environment and coming up and thinking about the most incredible, think about that, thinking about the most incredible title that he's ever imagined in his life. So he was, I think it's this idea of like, how are you right? You're working your brain. Good work we're talking about with the brain. Exactly. So if you're using AI to replace your thinking, that's where the danger comes in.

10:42Because if he never again uses his creativity and how he's using AI and he's using it to replace his creativity, that's where the danger comes in. I did a post on this a few weeks ago and I got a lot of comments like AI is actually going to like the way you just described it is how those people are feeling in their posts. Like AI is actually going to help us be more creative. it's gonna but are you gonna look at ai if now if you're looking at ai and saying is this real or is this a hallucination a hallucination because it's not always right right because it's pulling from data um i think it just depends on that piece of it because once you use technology to disengage your mind to be disconnected that's where the danger comes in um so when you offload your your cognitive work completely to it.

11:28Right. Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's why I love having a learning company because we are in this time, Josh, today where people are disengaged in their learning and they think content is going to change their behavior. And we know that that's not true. Well, tell me more about that. Why isn't content the answer? Okay. Well, let me give you an example too. So first of all, the way the training is mostly done in corporate education and trucking education and education in general, as we give somebody something generic, right? Like, so for drivers, for example, you could send them a generic parking lot, like be safe in a parking lot or don't text and drive.

12:11Right. But that doesn't change their behavior. What's different is if like you're talking about the program you're using, it's tapping into motivational theory and also authentic learning. So we can scan now with technology. You talk about AI, the power is like unlimited. Like you can go out with a phone, using Luma, scan an environment of a parking lot, upload it, identify the hazards, have a discussion with the drivers, have a discussion board where they can talk about the hazards, drop it to them before they get to the parking lot. And guess what, Josh? They're not gonna hit that yellow pole because they have authentic learning.

12:49So, you know, there's so much power in leveraging technology today to create these authentic, meaningful environments that can be life-changing. It can save your life. This isn't marketing. This isn't like passive content. This is about saving lives. And I think that's the key. Yeah. Well, tell me a bit more about Luma Brighter Learning. What is the problem that you're solving? By the way, I love your user. can I ask you I want to ask you very specifically you have some right happy characters in here and I thought that that was really interesting because you are in that's right you are in the trucking industry what's going on because I I see you know some parallels like um you know so with Duolingo they have all kinds of like happy silly characters and stuff but Dr.

13:40Gina we're adults Well, it's funny. You should see my booth. I have an actual mascot. I have Nugget. Nugget's a little bit of hope, love, and learning. Nugget is our mascot. Wait, look, Josh, doesn't every basketball, every sports team have a mascot? Everyone needs something to cheer about, right? Every business. What's your mascot? You need a mascot. Everyone needs a mascot. Everyone needs something to cheer about. The thing is, Nugget represents small, meaningful connections with people. We're disconnected. And Nugget spreads learning. And people go by my booth and they see all these characters.

14:18And they're in trucking. This is a male-dominated industry. And they're like, Gina, why do you have these little characters? We're not six-year-olds. And I'm like, no, we all need friends. We all need these meaningful connections. People take Nugget. I have Nugget. It's on my shelf. I won't go get it. But it's a little character and it goes around with the drivers. They write stories about Nugget. They share Nugget with people. They share their learning. People need something to cheer about. And that's the thing. We give them that and we give them the opportunity to spread real learning and real meaningful connections through Luma.

14:51That's what it is. Yeah. Well, how does it work? What, Nugget or Luma? No, no. Luma Brighter Learning, your platform. Yeah. Okay. So we want to know how Nugget works as well. I can tell you, Nugget, Nugget, Nugget's incredible. So Luma Writer Learning. So we have micro learning, but it's more than just content. We are able, we're a learning management system and we can bring in telematics and data to track real behavior change. So we can deliver not only content, but like I talked about authentic content. And there's five things that people don't think about. And I'll tell you those five things.

15:31The first thing, Josh, is learner-to-learner connection. We can't change behaviors by just dropping content. We have to engage learners with other learners. The second is learner-to-coach. We have to align ourselves with somebody that can coach us. Learner-to-content, if you're going to do content, it has to be authentic. And learner-to-self, how many times do they ask the driver or ask the fleets or ask the warehouse workers, what do you want to learn? Josh, last year I asked, we have over 600 ,000 learners in our system. And I asked them, what do you want to learn about? What do you think they said?

16:06What do you think they want to learn about? Do you have any idea? No idea. All right. Well, they, they want to learn about depression. They want to learn about caring for elderly parents. They want to learn about financial wellness and look, they're not being asked. People don't ask people what they want to learn about. So asking the learner, getting them to reflect on. And if you're tracking behavior changes through machine learning, learner to machine, that's the last one, then you really have to understand, is that person ready to change their behavior? Because look, if they're not ready, if they're not on board, it doesn't matter how many content, how many e-nuggets you sent out, they're not going to change their behavior.

16:44So the five interaction modes of engagement are critical, and Luma brings that to the industry. This industry does not have that. All they have, all they do is generic content, and that doesn't save lives or change behaviors. Wow. So can you do you mind explaining the business of Luma, Brighter Learning? Like, who do you work with and how do you form relationships? And so to our friend that's listening, you know, they may be a potential client. They may be a decision maker or leader within a company that they likely should have a conversation with you. You primarily serve the transportation and logistics world.

17:22Yeah, so we're primarily in logistics and transportation. So we've been in business since 2008. And we really work with fleets or retail companies or you think of anything that has goods and services. So you could talk gas stations could be a client. A grocery store could be a client, you know, large logistics companies, shipper yards. I mean, there's a lot of bus companies. You know, some of our clients are bus companies. Any anyone that serves people and goods is what we do. And so we, you know, really we get we network. We go to large events in the industry. and really most of our business has been through word of mouth because people that use our system, this is not just delivering content.

18:20People that use our system and work with us see real measurable safety improvements. People are safer on the roads and I would never come and say that without specific research and data that shows it. When you can track behavior out on the road, you really see your ROI and you really see the changes in the behaviors. And so you have to have that data and you have to understand what your ROI is to measure if learning is working. How do you know learning is working? And so we work with organizations and decision makers to help them think about what are your ROI goals? How do you want to get there?

18:58And how can we use learning in our learning management system to really drive behavior change? Because that's what we are aimed to do. Yeah. Um, so also we only have just like a minute left. Can you tell me about your book thrive, please? Yeah. Okay. So I started my book. I wrote my book because I had drivers telling me they were depressed. Um, I was out doing a talk and I asked an, um, an audience, how many of them felt like fours and fives and only two people, Josh raised her hand out of like 300. So people are not happy. So for me to write the book, I wanted, I'm a learning scientist. The power to change is inside of each of us.

19:42We have a brain. Each of us has a brain, even though a lot of people are using AI to help. We have a brain that we can use to move ourselves forward. So I wanted to write a book grounded in evidence and science and strategies to help people feel better. Because that's really what learning does. It helps ignite a passion and a way forward. So that's what my book is about. Yeah, the book title, again, is Thrive, How Learning Can Ignite a New Way Forward. Dr. Gina, your website is learningwithgina.com. And that's your personal website where people can see the work you do, including your podcast, which, again, our friend, you're listening right now in a podcast.

20:25Just click around. You can find this podcast. It's called I Love Learning Podcast with Dr. Gina Anderson. And Dr. Gina, your website, lumabrighterlearning.com. You have been an avid Inc. 5000 member. You've got many, many awards and your clients seem to love you. You got some pretty fantastic reviews. And again, that website, lumabrighterlearning.com. Dr. Gina Anderson, it's been a fun conversation. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you, Josh.

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