2182 - Pioneering Zero Waste and Zero Emissions in Mining with Phoenix Tailings' Nick Myers

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1:05With us right now, it is Nick Myers. Nick, you are the CEO and co-founder at Phoenix Tailings. You're found on the web at phoenixtailings.com. Nick, it's great to have you. It's an honor to be here, Josh. Thank you so much for having me. Yes, before we get going, and I'm really excited to share what you do and what you've created for the world. This is rather remarkable. We're going to get to that in just a second. But regarding who you are as a person right now, what are you geeking out on? or what are you into in your personal life? Hobbies, music movies, TV shows, that sort of thing, gaming, whatever, outside of work?

1:40Tacos, actually, funny enough. I'm a big taco fan. I love tacos. I even started my own little personal blog. It's just an Instagram. Yeah. The tacos on, it's very silly, but I love it. And I travel all around the country and I have tacos at different places and I try to find the best taco shop in every city I go to. Boston has two good ones. New York has one of the best, Los Tacos number one, it's amazing. and Orlando has my favorite on the eastern seaboard, which is Hunger Street Tacos. It's one of the best. Well, that's my town. So, okay. So now I have new weekend plans. You said Hunger Street?

2:11Hunger Street Tacos. Get the carne asada taco. It's the best. They have a Oaxaca style cheese on it. Yeah. They home make their tortilla. It's amazing. Okay. I've got their website pulled up. This even looks familiar. Like I may have been there. Okay. What are the, so now I need to know what are the elements of a good, like what's differentiates a good taco versus a not great taco or just like a yeah it's pretty much just a standard taco oh no that's very key so the first and number one thing it's very critical and not everyone does it is a homemade tortilla i personally like flour tortillas but a corn tortilla is also very good um but a my my that's absolute mission critical is to have a homemade tortilla if you don't have a homemade tortilla it cannot be a 10 out of 10 taco not possible yeah and so How can you tell, like if you did a blind taste test, how could you tell just from tasting that like, yeah, this is homemade, I could totally tell?

3:03Easy. So the homemade ones are a bit more thicker, generally speaking. The store-bought ones, they like really cram them down. There are a few big ones where they like, they do okay. But generally speaking, they're really crammed down, really plasticky. And they're okay, but they're not good, like at the end of the day. Yeah, I think I know what you, like it has a little bit more of a waxy extension. to it very thin like it's almost like uh if you'll speak yeah on my tortilla it is um fluffy it's chewy it's uh and it crumbles in just the right way and so you get this thickness to it that you just can't get anywhere else and the flavor is way better um a corn tortilla is a little bit more crumbly yeah get it when it's homemade um but it's and this is the flavor to it just adds to everything in the taco and it's absolutely mission critical do you have so you said you have a specific Instagram account just for tacos?

3:57It's called Tacos by a Gringo. Oh my goodness. Okay. All right. Well, there's another new follow for me. So Tacos by a Gringo. I'm going to search you up and find that. That's brilliant. All right. Well, that's cool. I've got some new inspiration for tacos this weekend. Tell us about Phoenix Tailing. So I was introduced to your company through a mutual friend. And then when I was going through the website, I'm like, Like, this is, like, I love when we can create, like, you know, a sustainable, but yet very kind of profit-driven free market, just a really clever way through the use of technology to solve multiple problems at once.

4:44And that's what you're doing at Phoenix Tailings. Share what it is. Thank you so much. Of course. Yeah, I mean, we started Phoenix about seven years ago when I met my co-founder, Dr. Tomas Villalon at a Bible study of all things. And started talking about the biggest problems in the world, you know, late at night, as of course one does. One of the problems being actually how we get the raw materials that we need to power wind turbines, electric vehicles, defense systems, MRI machines, computers, cell phones, all this stuff, all the amazing technology that you and I love and use on a daily basis relies on these specialty metals.

5:17And the more advanced the technology is, the more of these specialty metals they really need. The problem is getting those specialty metals is extremely challenging. It's very hazardous because the way in which you do it is very new. It hasn't been really done before. They didn't do it in mass scales. Originally, the first use of rare earth metals, which is the key metal that we produce, was used to make the red coloring in plasma screen TVs, which was a good market, but it's not an enormous market, especially when it first came out in the 80s. so now all of a sudden we're relying on the same techniques that we used back then to be able to produce all these metals that are used to underpin 30 trillion dollars of a global market which is enormous right so now it's crazy so anyway so there's 2 000 tons of waste for every single ton of metal produces what the end goal is that's crazy it's insane and it's all in the processing so it's not like with traditional metals like iron you go and you dig a hole in the ground and you get a nugget of metal and that nugget of metal is then put into your steel which goes into your car or whatever it is.

6:17Specialty metals is different. It's all in the processing. So if you dig a hole in the ground, you find dirt. And in fact, we have plenty of that dirt right here in America, but we ship 30 ,000 metric tons of that dirt to China today to process and turn to metal simply because they're okay with that level of pollution. They're okay with discharging all of that dirt, all of that waste and the cost to come with it. So at Phoenix, we stood out and said, hey, look, it's not okay to discharge waste. It's not okay to hurt people in the process of making metal. We need these metals and we need it more readily available at lower costs.

6:49So we started, we got a bucket of mud in the backyard seven years ago with playing with mud then and built the first prototype with$7 ,000. And since then we've raised a little over 80 million to date and about 45 people now on the team. And our whole mission is the same as we started, to build the world's first fully clean mining and metals production company with zero waste, zero emissions built to power the growth of this electrified and more technologically advanced future are bringing the raw materials needed to fuel that. So we do the processing of critical metals, specifically rare earth metals from both waste materials and mining, but also traditional raw material or into the final metal, metal alloy.

7:27And we ship that out to customers that make it into electric vehicles, wind turbines, medical devices, and other different products. Wow. You know, on your website, you know, and I think really folks do need to see exactly what this looks like visually, for example. And maybe you could talk about the impact if you if you can about not like what is the impact of the status quo? For example, you pointed out like the 2010 Hungarian red mud disaster on your Web site. I mean, there is some serious like these things have consequences. is people get sick, kids die. I mean, these are problems that probably should not be, you know, like a can kicked down the road.

8:16Our inaction just simply means more people die. Yes, absolutely correct. That's the problem. I mean, the current operations in Baotau, China, have 40 % elevated thorium levels in the blood of the people around it. Massive radioactivity in their blood, causing cancer, causing deaths, et cetera. This is very well known, very documented, and very clear that this happens today. And everyone's cell phone, everyone's car, everyone's computer relies on those metals that go through that region. Pretty terrible stuff. And the Hungarian red mud disaster is a horrible problem, right? That spills this toxic waste dump that's in Hungary producing alumina, which is key for aluminum used in a MacBook or a car or a plane.

8:58And that spilled. It killed 10 people, but caused hundreds of million dollars of damage to the economy there. and literally untold amounts of environmental damage that we can't even document in Eastern Europe. So it's pretty challenging all the way around. And that's what we're solving at Phoenix. Yeah. All right. So talk about the kind of the business of Phoenix tailings, like who you're working with, like what that ends up looking like, where you fit in within all of this. Absolutely. You know, I think a lot of people get scared away from metals and mining because it's so complicated and confusing of a sector that no one really understands how it works.

9:33But at the end of the day, it's fairly simple if you break it down to it. Mining traditionally is digging a hole in the ground. Mining companies really don't do much more than digging a hole. Now, digging a hole is very hard. Be very clear. If anyone from Rio Dinto listens or anything, they do a great job. It's very tough to dig the hole. But once they've dug the hole, unless it's in a form factor that is usable, it's pretty challenging. So they have to take that and do something called refining. so that's shipping to a customer or a processing company so generally it's in china 97 of the world's processing is in china today two percent in russia one percent and that rock or that dirt is then shipped there to process and turn the metal that metal is then shipped to say korea or germany or the us to turn into a magnet that goes into an electric motor and eventually into your car if If you have an electric vehicle, wind turbine or MRI machine is one of the big applications as well that we like.

10:30So at Phoenix, what we're doing is at the first stages, we're starting off by solving that refining problem. So we buy from mining companies today, as well as electronic recyclers, as well as other players. Processing that rock and dirt into that final metal and metal alloy. We sell to the magnet companies all around the world. So not China, but we sell to Korea. We sell to the US. We sell to Germany and Canada. And they turn that into, generally in our case, is primarily automotive applications. And that goes into an electric vehicle. So the primary powertrain for any type of electric vehicle uses rare earth permanent magnet.

11:08And that's the metal that we make. How did, you know, and I think that there's a lesson here, or I think that there's a message here that I think is so inspiring, right? is that we can look at some of these ills that exist. And I do believe that just like you've implemented here, there are technological solutions to nearly everything if we keep asking questions and if we keep researching and if we keep asking why and not accepting the status quo. That's the vibe I get from Phoenix Tailings. 100 i could not agree more i think the biggest mistake the united states made as a nation back in the 1980s was to say hey let's not push the money towards you know innovating and finding a solution let's take the quick approach and just push it to china russia whomever yeah process and just get the profits now if we had taken its effort short term use technology to solve our problems we wouldn't be in the situation we're out today where 97 relies on that that's the key thing.

12:13So technology is the end solution and America candidly does that better than anyone else in the world. Who does? I'm in the United States of America. Oh yeah, right, right, right. Yeah. All right. So Nick, of those who are listening, who should we be sharing this episode with? And, you know, how can I help, like, who can I help connect you with? Or, you know, how can I, how can I help Phoenix Tailing do more good in the world? Who can be working with you? Absolutely. Thank you very much for the offer. And to everyone listening, we really appreciate your support. I think it requires everyone to really be galvanized around a solution.

12:50We need to work with key players to solve this problem very effectively. So the first is, of course, anyone that works in the automotive sector, the aerospace sector, the medical device sector, any of those items, hey, please share this with them. We want to make sure that they know that there is an alternative to buy metal that doesn't have to be purchased from unsustainable sources that have huge social rights issues and things like this. we can produce it here in America at the same price points without having those problems. Very key. The second thing is, of course, government folks. I know there's a lot of push right now in the government.

13:20I'll let you all look it up online about what's going on with the current administration, but a lot of key things going on there. And as long as they, I would love them to understand that, hey, we don't have to turn to release our environmental regulations. We can do all of this here in America without having the same discharge. We just have to focus on technology first. And that's the key way to solve this. right now. The third, of course, and I always want to highlight this is new hires. We are very actively hiring all the time. If anyone wants to join our mission, we would love to talk to you, even if it's now today or in a couple of years in the future, we'd be honored to speak with you.

13:51We love building a network and it relies on every one of us to really truly make this solution a reality. Nick, your website, phoenixtailings.com, for someone that wants to reach out or connect, what is that process? Particularly, let's say they're in the automotive industry and like there is an opportunity to do business together. What's that path? Absolutely. Literally there's a contact us line there. As silly it is, I do still have my, my director of commercial actually looks at it on a daily basis and monitors every outreach. We will respond. I promise you. So if you guys reach out to that, whether a new hire, whether a potential customer, potential supplier, all of the above, we do look at every single one of those and we'd be honored to talk.

14:32You can always notification as well. I love it. phoenix tailings.com nick myers again ceo co-founder uh thank you so much for the work you're doing so grateful that we got connected and uh really looking forward to um seeing you have a bigger bigger impact uh in the world and and again thank you for um you know again just it sounds like okay wait we have one more minute here um you know can you tell me how your your your co-founder like like how did you come to this like how did he figure this out it wasn't a matter of figuring it out prior or anything like that honestly and i always tell people like this we didn't have a piece of technology that he magically scaled we literally agreed together at that bible site said you want to try to find a way to solve this problem yeah everything we can so we built the first prototype it didn't work all that well and we iterated and built new ones we did it was grit determination trial and error and pushing through time and time again, 100-hour weeks regularly for seven years until we were right today.

15:34That's incredible. That's like Edison's story with the light bulb. There were lots of people at the time who were trying light bulbs. Edison just tried it more times. That's it. He wasn't any more genius. He just had a bulldog tenacity to keep at it. And that's what led to finally something that worked out okay. Absolutely. Love it. Nick Myers, thank you so much for joining us. Thanks so much, Josh. Really appreciate it.

16:09Thanks for listening to the Thoughtful Entrepreneur Show. If you are a thoughtful business owner or professional who would like to be on this daily program, please visit upmyinfluence.com and click on podcast. We believe that every person has a message that can positively impact the world. We love our community who listens and shares our program every day. Together, we are empowering one another as thoughtful leaders. And as I mentioned at the beginning of this program, if you're looking for introductions to partners, investors, influencers, and clients, I have had private conversations with over 2 ,000 leaders, asking them where their best business comes from.

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