2228 - Finding Fulfillment in the Second Half of Life with Made to Matter's Adam Landrum

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1:05With us right now, Adam Landrum. Adam, you are a founder and coach with Made to Matter. Your website is madetomatter.coach. Your book is The Life That Matters Manifesto, which I can't wait to talk about. Adam, it's great to have you. Thank you for having me, Josh. I'm looking forward to our conversation. Yeah, absolutely. Well, Adam, before we kind of get into your work and your impact in the world, what are you currently doing for fun or what are you geeking out on lately? Yeah, you know, well, my past year, have you ever remodeled a house or anything? We sure did. A couple of years ago, we had a big gut at everything.

1:46You know exactly what I've been doing for that last year. So I actually, a year, almost a little bit over a year ago, I bought a cabin in the Blue Ridge Mountains. It's literally a log cabin. And it has a beautiful long range view, which had no windows on that side of the cabin. I don't have no watch. So we just put in 16 feet of glass. We remodeled this whole thing. And that has been, if you can call that a hobby, that's pretty much what I've been doing. I also play pretty bad tennis when I can. So tennis and remodeling cabins is what I'm doing. How active have you been on the remodel? Or are you just kind of like just ordering, making the orders?

2:29Or are you getting your hands rolling up your sleeves? Yeah, I am not the guy to roll up. you don't want me working on anything with my hands. So, um, but I am the general contractor, you know, I'm making a thousand decisions that I'm hurting cats in terms of getting all the trades there. Yeah. Yeah. What is it like working with contractors up in the blue Ridge mountains? Cause I don't, you're probably not like downtown. Correct. Yeah, no, it's, I'm, so I'm in Greenville, South Carolina. I'm a little bit over an hour away from the cabin and, uh, um, up in North Carolina. And yeah, it's, it's tough.

3:01It's, I think herding cats is the right thing. They'll reply to you when they want to reply to you. And so you have to be persistently, pleasantly persistent to get them there. Yeah. Yeah. There's a great, there's a great business opportunity for someone to put like, help these people do admin and scheduling and project management. I don't know why it hasn't happened yet. Well, that's your job apparently is the GC. Yeah, exactly. Thus, it's become your part-time job. Well, Adam, in your full-time job, give us an overview of the work that you do with Made to Matter. Yeah, so Made to Matter, I'm happy to say it's really the vocation I've always wanted to do.

3:41I love the word vocation. Vocation is this idea of a calling to a career. So the first half of my life, I founded an agency. We did brand and marketing for universities. and I did that for 22 years and I was fortunate enough to sell that um and a couple years ago and so I am now doing what I wanted to always do when I grew up you know I don't know if you can relate to that but um so I'm coaching men in their second half uh around purpose and really um doing the vocation that that they've always wanted to do so so that's uh yeah that's that's what I'm doing and having a blast doing it. So what's going on?

4:23You know, you know, thinking about this, you know, second stage or second half of life with men, share with us your manifesto, if you could. Yeah, well, yeah, thanks. The it's really, there's been a lot of writing and studying about this. There's been some very popular books, Strength to Strength, Second Mountain by David Brooks and various other books about, and really it, I think Young, the psychologist really identified it in terms of, in the first half, we're all about achieving and succeeding and right. If you go to the traditional route, we graduate from school and get married and have kids and buy a house and have a first career and grow it.

5:07You know, it's like achieving, achieving. It's like the idea is this is what the world wants. and when we hit midlife and we all know about the midlife crisis and stuff it is as as as if our soul is saying okay you've given the world what they want now what do we want like let's start doing what we want to do and so we get we you know that that starts getting around purpose and fulfillment and you know achieving the things isn't as meaningful anymore and but doing the qualitative, meaningful things, that's really what the desire comes from within. So I think that's why a lot of people have that midlife crisis is because they just don't have the meaning that they want.

5:50So that's really the core issue that I'm helping men address. Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about roles and identities? And sometimes I think particularly maybe in the first half of life, when we kind of settle into our career, we really wear that suit very hard. I am this. This is who I am. This is what I do. And, you know, I think that there are some potential risks to, you know, being too wrapped up in those identities. And I am kind of inspired by a couple of things that you shared on social media, but I don't know if you have any thoughts on that topic. Oh, yeah, man. Well, we could do the whole talk or the show on this.

6:32So, yeah, from an identity standpoint, and I can relate to this because I just did it, is one is as a business owner, you have probably more identity than you think you do. And I knew that. I knew it was like an iceberg. I knew it was like, oh, this isn't totally me. But when I sold my business, that was a major event, a major blow. I mean, I was a little depression afterwards. afterwards and just, and I knew it was coming, but you can't do anything about it. You just got to get through it. So that's, that's one identity. I think wired in, in, in men in particular is this, is to be the provider.

7:14So Josh, I can't tell you how many times I've, I've been coaching men and they say, I have more than enough money. I can do whatever I want to do, but yeah, but I just, I feel like I have to keep making money. And like, and so that, so, so that identity is the provider is fighting against us from doing what it is we really want to do. You know, husband, father, you know, of course your, your identity, you know, you don't lose identity as a father, if you have kids, but it certainly shifts as, as the nest becomes empty. So, I mean, midlife there's, I think that's why there's just so much change happening that it can just be a really confusing time.

7:54And that's why people are looking to be grounded, right? And that's why they're looking for that meaning. You know, and Adam, I wonder how much of this too is like in our conscious brain, like someone might just be dissatisfied. They might be depressed. They might be feeling a lot of anxiety. And yet they, and I'll just speak very plainly for myself, right? I never suspected that it was, you know, because I would have never thought that there was something inherently wrong with this idea of being way too wrapped up in my professional identity to think that that's where the disconnect is happening.

8:33Like it was so insidious. It was so, I would say even subconscious that it really just took a lot of awareness and digging and like, wait a minute, you know, my identity or my confusion or my frustration with my identity, that is the source of all of my problems. And, you know, again, in my mind, I'm like, why would I ever think that's a bad thing? But for me, it was. Well, a couple of things, like how many years have you been doing your career when you had that dissonance? Oh, well, I don't know. Like now I'm like, I'm honestly like this is something I've almost like literally like really recently unpacked.

9:14So you're asking the question, how many years have I had? Well, I don't know, because it's like I feel this urgency to do what I'm supposed to do to provide for my family, you know, be successful, you know, be, you know, make my dad proud. Who knows? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's funny. As grown men, we're still trying to make our dads proud, even if they're not alive or not. Yeah. You know, I think you've been doing it for 20, 25 years. And, you know, what's the first question people ask you, right? When they do. What do you do? Like it's, so it is just ingrained, like the work men do. And I do think, you know what?

9:53I think there's a reality. I think it matters. I do think at a level of matters, I think maybe we make it matter too much. But yeah, and so if it's 20 years, we've been doing a very similar career and that, I mean, it just sort of seeps into us and then you feel like you can't change. You got to keep doing it. You maybe you get paid too much money to do what you've always been doing. And I mean, there are so many things. So, yeah, unwinding the identity. It's a big part of what I do in terms of coaching. Yeah. Wow. You know, and at the end of the day, too, I you know, I just think about, you know, you know, also men may I think historically or stereotypically, I think this has improved quite a bit.

10:39but to allow ourselves to be that level of introspective or vulnerable. Again, I think from my observation, men are getting better at this, or at least culturally, it's more accepting. You know, we have a more accepting culture that we can ask some of these big questions, and it's okay, you know, to kind of explore. I'm sorry, I'm kind of meandering here. Here, take the baton, please. Yeah, no, well, I mean, I agree with that comment that it's, you know, I think there's a, I think there's actually a spiritual movement going on and it's not as much in the church per se, but it's still spiritual.

11:16And it is okay for a man to be vulnerable, to be, to be introspective, as you said, to be transparent. And, and yeah, and so, and it makes sense, as I said before, it's like the, the soul in the second half starts speaking up. And that's probably, you know, if we look at baby boomers or something, that generation, you'll probably push that down. And these newer generations are starting to open up and maybe, you know, have conversations with that one in you who is saying, hey, maybe there's more. Maybe we should be doing things differently. And I think that's a healthy thing. your book uh is the life that manners matters manifesto uh the 11 principles to know and commit to a lot uh to live a life that matters it's on kindle it's on paperback do you mind maybe just giving a quick overview of that and who this book could be for yeah this so i i mean i wrote i wrote this book for um i mean really it's it's based on on on what my needs were at the time a business owner.

12:16I wrote this book in 2001. So that would put me at 47 years old. And, and, you know, I was just, I was just sort of just sort of burned out and looking back at life and, and saying, Hey, what, you know, if you look at a life that matters, what does that look like? And so I identified those 11 principles, you know, big cornerstone of that is our foundation of that is, purpose. So I always say every man should know their purpose, have a vision and be on a mission. And so that's a lot of what there are other principles in living a life that matters, but that's the core of it. And here's the idea, Josh, is that I just believe that a man should always be on an adventure.

13:03And when we're not, we get bored. And what happens when we get bored? I think a bored man is very dangerous, right? Idle hands and that type of thing. So the first half of life, I mentioned all the stuff like, you know, well, you learn to ride a bike and then you get on the basketball team and then you get your girlfriend and then college and, you know, all that stuff. So adventure is constantly coming at you. When we hit midlife, adventure is not coming at you anymore. You have to generate the inertia. You have to generate the adventure. And I mean, maybe the biggest thing that make grandkids, I hear grandkids is wonderful.

13:41I'm not there yet. But so really finding that purpose and having that vision and then going on that mission to get you closer to that vision is a lot of what the book is about. So that's why I just think in midlife people wake up. I talked to a business owner who sold his, I think, eight figure sale. And he said, you know, my wife said I need to find a purpose because I'm just sort of laying in bed. I don't know what to do with myself anymore. So that's that's what it's about. Yeah. And Adam, tell me more about the work. Like, what does it look like to engage with you? Yeah, well, so really, the first part of engaging is identifying those three things, the purpose, vision and mission.

14:30And by the way, I think a lot of that gets interchanged. So I just want to touch on this. Vision is the North Star. You can't reach it. You can't reach it. It's your guidepost, right? It's what you're going for. Mission is the North Pole. You can actually reach that. So it's a one to three year plan, adventure, whatever it may be. It may be, you know, start my next business. It may be do my next thing. And so I help men. I coach them through that to identify that. and that really takes about 13 weeks, a quarter to go through the 11 principles in the book. And then from there it is, you know, Hey, are you wanting to do your next thing, your next business?

15:10Are you wanting to exit? A lot of people who want to exit their, their business rather, what are they going to do next? They usually need support if they're exiting. I would, I would highly recommend it. And so, so then, so then it's just an ongoing coaching relationship to help them successfully launch their next best thing. Yeah. And when they work with you, what would you or what do you see as the improved outcomes or the improved lifestyle that they gain because they have you as their wingman? Oh, man. Well, yeah, it's really a more fulfilled life doing meaningful work that energizes them again.

15:58So I just think we start running out of energy in midlife and we need to really kickstart the engine again. So they're fulfilled. They're happy what they're doing. They're probably working less and they're making more money. and there's it's just funny that we sort of think that like oh gosh I got to keep doing what I've always been doing because I can't I'll never be able to make enough that just hasn't been my experience at all you can you can do meaningful work and have a very financially viable second half so that's I love helping men do that yeah at your website made to matter.coach you have obviously where someone could access the book.

16:40You have an online course you're working on, but you can also download the PDF workbook directly at your website. You want to mention maybe next steps for our friend that's listening? Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, part of the book is, I think it's cool, is that it's about two thirds book and a third workbook. So what I wanted to do, I didn't want to do just another book on this subject, on the purpose subject. I wanted to get very pragmatic and be like, hey, here are the tools. You can actually work through it. So you could buy the book for$20 on Amazon and get the workbook for free, the download and do it yourself, right?

17:20If you wanted to do it with me one-on-one, where I take you through it for 13 weeks, then I have a place where you can sign up with that. That's called Repurpose Coaching on my website. And then, um, the other thing is, um, I do discovery calls for, for free. And it's, I don't do a little 30 minute one. I actually do a 90 minute full experience. I want you to experience what coaching is like. If you've never, if you've never worked with a coach, um, it's pretty cool, whether it's me or somebody else, it's a really neat experience, but I want, you know, it's like to coach with me. So you could sign up, um, for a call and, And I'd love to do that coaching with you.

18:03Yeah. All right. Adam Landrum, the website made to matter dot coach. Adam, thank you so much for the conversation. Josh, thank you. Enjoyed it.

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