2291 - Why Networking Should Feel More Like a Dinner Party and Less Like a Sales Pitch with Daniel Andrews

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0:58With us right now, it is Daniel Andrews. Daniel, you are, you're a connector. You are, your website is danielpatrickandrews.com. And by the way, I mean, as well as, you know, being a serial entrepreneur and, you know, kind of a mentor and so forth, connector, I don't, I want to make sure I underline and bold that because that is truly that amount to the work that you do. And we're going to get into that in just a second, but it's great to have you. Thank you. It's an honor to be here and I appreciate the engagement you spent with me pre this. pre this event and making sure I'm prepared and I feel comfortable and confident.

1:35And you're going to be a great host. I'm excited. All right. We'll see. I think you're going to do fine. The jury's out on how I do. Daniel, before we kind of get into things, I always love finding out what overachievers, most of us are passionate about other things in life other than just work. What have you been into lately? Good question. I dabble in a lot of things, but the, you know, when you, when you told me that that was a question you're going to ask what my brain settled on first was the friendships that I've cultivated, right? It might be out doing something outdoorsy, kayaking, rafting, canoeing, hiking, biking with my friends.

2:18It might be having them over to my house, but I take my relationships, my friendships pretty seriously. And, uh, but people laugh, but when you think it through, it makes sense. My wife and I have set up a calendly link for dinner at our house. You just pick a Saturday of your choice and bring a salad. So it reached the point where we had to let people manage their own schedules in terms of, you know, showing up at our house, but we're, we're big, um, uh, hospitality and friendship people. Well, wait a minute. So, okay. So that is something because I hear this a lot, particularly among men, middle-aged men is that it can often be challenging to do friend things.

2:57Like you have to be very proactive. And, you know, my wife and I, we were like looking at this new board game that we got and we're like, it's, it requires three players and, you know, I can probably get my boys to play or something like that, you know, but they've got, they're busy too. But, you know, we were just like, man, we need more friends. Like we've got friends, but it's just like, I don't know. It's like, you know, it's like, we, feel like we have to do a lot of the, you know, the organizing and what's going on. I know you have a background in psychology too. And this is a topic that's, again, it's a part of your superpowers professionally, but what's going on with people here?

3:36With that? Okay. I think a couple of things. One is the exhaustion with the number of pings and pulls at our attention, Right. You know, just the electronic age, you know. Cal Newport has written extensively about this, you know, other people, you know, the ruthless elimination of hurry is the name of the book. I'm blanking on the author at the moment, you know, but, you know, we feel exhausted by by the interactions or we feel like we've kept up. I mean, Facebook killed the high school reunion because I don't need to go to find out what's going on in their lives. right? I already know. And social media and constant texting probably prevents us from feeling like it's time to hang out with Bob or Pete or Sue or Jane, because I already know what's going on in their life, even though that's not true, real deep connection.

4:19So that's, you know, that's, that would be my educated guess around this. And then the amount of time that it takes to coordinate it, right? Meaning the whole reason behind the Calendly link, and this is not a promo for Calendly. I have no affiliate code with Calendly. They don't offer them, right? Is that my wife and I would get into a text thread with, say, Jennifer and Andrew. And, you know, there's four of us chiming in. Oh, this weekend will work. Oh, wait, something came up. I hadn't told my spouse yet, but this is there. You know, this isn't going to. And I'm like, let's just quit messing around.

4:48Let's send Jennifer and Andrew a callally, like, let them figure out what weekend's going to work. Wow. You know, and just leave it alone. Right. You know, you know, people don't have the bandwidth for 83 back and forth. I know something like what day is right for dinner so just and my wife resisted it for the longest time and then she realized we were not you know there's many Saturday nights we're sitting home going we should have had friends over I'm like I know I'm telling you we can make it easy so hospitality is my job that makes so much sense and um you know Calendly feels like you know kind of a very utilitarian business type thing if I like send to my friend Don and like because my friend Don you know it's like we want to come over and play arcade games.

5:28I've got this main cabinet with like 20 ,000 arcade games on it. I'm like, dude, come over. And I'm like, listen, and I've got my, I'm mostly available on Monday and Tuesdays after work because my wife is a therapist and she has sessions that night. So I got nothing to do. And it's just like, I don't know. Well, then start promoting an open house, right? I mean, it's hard for me to judge your age, but when I was a child, the family with the pool said when, you know, visiting hours were, right? Whoever in the neighborhood had a pool, the family made a boundary, right? And they said, this is the time to do that, right?

6:04And my friends know that if we're going to get together, it's Saturday night. My mother-in-law lives with us. We have caregivers during the week because she can't be left alone. You know, mild dementia, moderate dementia probably. You know, a whole bunch of things go around this. But Saturday night, we have no caregivers. So we're at home Saturday night. Why not cook dinner? Because Linda can engage. You know, she's not, you know, off in a corner. You know, she can engage and laugh at people's jokes. You know, so Saturday night is the night and we're just, you know, we made a point of making sure people know this is when we're available.

6:31But what's fun about guys is guys like to do things together. They can build a friendship while they're building a tree fort for the kids or hanging pictures on the wall or fixing the garage door that broke. Right. Guys do well building friendship alongside each other. And so that's what makes it easier for me as a guy. Right. I'm like, hey, I got a thing to do. Come over and let's do it together. And that's our bonding time. Right. It's a do for. You know, we get, we get the, the art hung on the walls and we get to hang out. Yeah. And, and then, you know, we have, you know, we, we have invited some people over and I'm sure this is, again, this is application of both business and personal.

7:09Sure. Yeah. Yeah. And, and it, boy, it felt like we had to really, like really had to stretch to like, kind of keep the conversation going. And, you know, in my mind, I'm thinking, oh, this was a mistake. I mean, whatever. I mean, I love to cook, like, you know, and so I love entertaining, you know, I love, you know, putting effort into it. I think, you know, my wife was like, you know, feeling like we almost like made a mistake by inviting, you know, and I mean, that's silly. Don't invite them back, you know, I mean, or, you know, give them two chances and see what happens because some people warm up slow.

7:50That's true. And these are people that I already know, right? I I mean, I'm not cold calling the neighborhood and going, hey, dinner at our house Saturday night. These are people that I know and I know I engage with. Right. We've gone to the local concert at the, you know, you know, Civic Amphitheater together. Right. You know, we've you know, we've hung out after, you know, we've stayed after the business networking event and got to know each other. Right. You know, I've you know, one guy does woodwork. I engaged him to do a few things for me. So I know I know him well. And, you know, he came to my Christmas party and met another friend at our Christmas party.

8:19and now they're married. So of course he, you know, the two of them think, you know, give me an Adina credit for the fact that they're together. And I'm like, okay, whatever. You know, it's just a Christmas party. Yeah. How can I make invitations, either business or personal, feel less formal? Because I think I've seen this too, where it's like, ooh, dinner at the Elegis. Okay. And then it's like, you know, it's like, I don't want anyone to feel stilted, you know, about the whole thing. It's like, no, dude, it's just whatever. just come on over and I love to cook and easy in, easy out. Like, is there anything that I can do?

8:54And again, I think this is application for business as well to just like kind of lower the, you know, the feel, any feelings of obligation or formality. Well, and I'll transition into a business setting because I think that's primarily what we want to accomplish. But yes, when I invite somebody onto my calendar, you know, I have a calendar link specifically for first meetings, get to know you meetings, whatever you choose to call those. I choose to use words very carefully. I call them paired interviews, but a get to know you meeting of some sort. And there's a link specifically for that because in the link, I describe what the expectations are.

9:32Right. And, and, and those expectations are, we're going to learn about each other's business. Right. I don't say there's no sales pitch, but it's only a 20 minute meeting. So it's clear I'm not selling you anything and you're not selling me anything. Yeah. Right. And, And I mean, I also frame it that way in the dialogue, but you're talking about getting people on your calendar. And when I create introductions for other people, I use the same low stakes, as my coach calls it, a low barrier to entry, right? A low friction question, right? And so I will say, for example, hey, Fred, you need to, you know, I want to introduce you to Josh, you know, he's good at blah, blah, blah.

10:07I think you might need to engage him ultimately. But what my suggestion is that you get into a short meeting with Josh to see if a longer meeting is appropriate. And I think when you lower the bar and people walk in and they know they're not going to be sold to. Yeah. Right. Because this is just a first meeting to decide if I want a longer meeting. So it's the low barrier to entry. Right. Hey, just hang out for, you know, a quick phone or Zoom call and figure out from there what you guys can or can't do together. And so I think anytime you can reduce the mental load or the expectation about how much is going to be expected of them in that meeting, you know, you've created, right?

10:46And again, going back to our calendly link, you know, it says, bring a salad, list your allergies, we'll provide everything else, right? Right. That's it. You know, you know, you could do that part. Right. You know, my wife and I are not drinking much anymore. So everything that's in our cabinet from when we decided we weren't drinking much anymore, they don't need to even BYOB. You know, they can make it right. You know, we're letting the bottles go a little at a time. Oh, I'd love to make a craft cocktail, too. Right. I'd be happy to do that. But I'm just saying, you know, we don't even have to be, you know, tell them to BYOB because there's still plenty left over from the days.

11:16Right. Right. Right. Right. From before we decided we were going to do this very infrequently, you know, consume alcohol ourselves very infrequently. one. So I think anything you can do, right. Bring a salad and list your allergies, right. Anything you can do, right. Get into a meeting with Josh and see if a longer meeting is important. Take a quick phone call and see where it goes. Anytime you can set the expectation as the first, you know, the first entry point is low stakes. I think that goes a long way. Right now. I don't ever introduce two people and go, cause I get this a lot. You know, people want to introduce me.

11:45Well, you know, you need to meet Susie. Why Susie? Well, she's an awesome person. You would just really like her. I'm like, I got to have better reasons than that. And I'd like to think Susie did too. Yeah, agreed. Right. Meaning, I think an intro needs to identify the objective and the purpose. And those are two different things in my mind. The objective is almost typically a short meeting. Now, if somebody introduced me to you, the objective wouldn't be a short meeting. The introduction would be, hey, Dan, you need to be on Josh's podcast. That's why I want to introduce you. Right. But the objective is a short meeting.

12:12But the purpose is to what end? Hey, Fred, you might need to buy what Josh is selling. Not sure if that's true or not, But why don't you guys get into a short meeting to explore the synergies and whether or not you guys should be engaged? Yeah. Short meeting, 15 or 30 minutes? To me, I put 20. 20 is an oddly round number. Yeah. It gives me another 10 on the other side, meaning a 10-minute buffer now has only taken 30 off my calendar. Right. You know, 20. And I've done enough of these that 20 feels about right. Now, I need to add an extra bulletin on that link that says, if you're going to ask about the swords, add three minutes.

12:46Because the first thing you said when you came in, you know, when we got together on Zoom, you were like, tell me about the swords. I'm like, yeah. So, you know, which, of course, you know, would be even more intriguing to people, I guess. We could have some fun with that. But I love a 20-minute first meeting because nobody's going to sell anybody anything in those 20 minutes. Yeah. You know, and I contrast the way that you were explaining this versus what I think that is incredibly unfortunate around how a lot of the amateur lead gen world is behaving. And it, to me, is just so distasteful and transactional.

13:18And it just seems like the person doing the reaching out, unfortunately, is just very self-focused on what their goals are. And that's a disappointing missed opportunity in my standpoint. Can you comment on that? Absolutely, I can. And I think that the fundamental difference in a cold call or finding somebody and then trying to build the trust necessary versus an introduction, because an introduction is either borderline or full on an endorsement. I'm not looking for a lead, right? If you gave me a, you know, if I was at the networking group with you one week, Josh, and you're like, hey, Dan, here's a lead for you.

14:02I wrote his name and phone number down on a piece of paper. I'd be like, no, thanks. You can keep it. You know, what do you mean? if you're not going to introduce me, right? Meaning, I get into a lot of first conversations where it's clear that my ultimate objective is to have them become my client, or at least, you know, to sniff that out, right? I have something that the person introduces, thinks you might need from me. And so the fundamental difference is they land in my inbox with the trust of the person that introduces. And I'll just use Suzanne's name as an example, we've got a real person here at stake, Suzanne Taylor King or Nick Alter.

14:39They both create a lot of introductions for me. And somebody lands on my calendar assuming that Nick understands their needs and my deliverable, right? They're in a trusted position with Nick. And there's something about the wingman or the endorsement effect, right? I mean, you and I, of course, are married, we're not dating. But if you ask the youngsters, right, having a wingman when you're out you know, at the bar or the club, right? Somebody else that will lift you up. It's amazing how simple that is and it has an effect. So it can still be clear that I'm trying to get onto your calendar, Josh, because I have something I want you to buy for me.

15:19But if Suzanne Taylor King or Nick Alter has said to you, hey, Josh, I mean, assuming you trust them the way I trust them, right? Hey, Josh, Dan's got a thing that you might want to look into. You can receive that with the spirit and the endorsement and the trust and the credibility that comes from the intermediary's introduction, right? And that's why I'm at a point in my career and I teach people to very quickly reach a point where everybody that's on your calendar gets there by introduction, not because it's, have your people call my people. You know, there's not some snooty approach. It's, I don't want to spend time building credibility when I've already built it with enough people that the credibility they've built can now be leveraged back into my world.

16:04I just want to start further down the path of success in that conversation by having people assume, you know, I'm credible, which I am. And my metaphor there is the relay race, right? The gun goes off, the first runner comes out, goes around the track with a baton in their hand. Second runner's on the track. At the moment of handoff, what is the second runner doing? It's got his arm back. He's got their arm back and they are already running. They're already running. and they don't stop and go, is this a legitimate baton? Is this the one I, you know, my partner started with, you know, did he trade it for one a few ounces lighter?

16:37Right. And was I standing in the right lane? What color jersey did that person have on? They don't ask any of that. They assume the handoff is legitimate. If there's a Bible, they look back. But I'd like to tell people, trust is that baton. When person A hands it at person B, the assumption is everything's in order and it's yours to lose. You can screw it up. You can be late. You can use the poor language. You can start to talk politics, right? There's a hundred ways you can lose cred, but you start with credibility already in the bank and it's yours to lose at that point. And that's a huge difference.

17:08And I have people saying, oh, relationships take a long time. By the way, Dan, tell me about the$25 ,000 a year community you were talking about. I could refer you. And I said, Peggy, you just said relationships take a long time. I've known you for 26 minutes and you're trying to give me referrals. Right. And she said, you're right. I said, see the magic, Peggy's not in the 26 minutes. The magic is in the fact that Ron Harvey told you, you know, my calendar and you believe in Ron Harvey. And that's why 26 minutes in, you're writing down the names of people that are going to give me big dollars.

17:39Dan, your website is danielpatrickandrews.com. To our friend that's listening, where do they go from here? How do they engage with you? And can they come over for dinner? Can they come over for dinner? If you are willing to drive or fly to Columbia, South Carolina, you're welcome to come over for dinner. The easiest way to go, so you don't have to wade through, and you're welcome to go to my website. You'll find testimonials there. You'll find some stuff. I don't make it easy to get on my calendar from that website, but because it's you, Josh, because I know your audiences are good people, I've got a legitimate offer to make to the world.

18:14If you'll go to my second domain, cuttingedgebusinesscoaching.com, just like it sounds, cuttingedgebusinesscoaching.com, It will immediately take you to my calendar link to book a 20-minute call where I help you build a networking business plan. Now, Josh and I talked about this before we came on. You have to enter your email address to get on my calendar, clearly. This is not a lead capture tool. I do not collect email addresses. I don't have a newsletter. I won't pester you. I just need the email address long enough to get on my calendar. it. Whether or not you want to engage with me after the 20 minutes, completely up to you, but I'll spend 20 minutes helping you figure out how to do more with less, how to get better results by focusing on a few people.

19:00We didn't get to really talk about the nature of the work I do, but the reality is if you're a professional, professional services, B2B, or even some categories of B2C, like financial services, real estate, insurance, within 90 days, I can show you how to hit your annual goals and more on nothing other than inbound introductions to ideal client profiles, spending less time with fewer people. And I'll walk you through the math when we get together for the network building business plan, but that's my offer. 20 minutes on my calendar and no cost, no charge. I will get to the end and the entire sales pitch will consist of this phrase.

19:36There's more where that came from. Let me send you a link. So we will spend 19 and a half minutes It's focused on getting value for whoever's listening to this that goes to cuttingedgebusinesscoaching.com. It takes you directly to my calendar. That way you don't have to dig your way through to a link on my main page because I make it a little hard to find me on my main page. Yeah. All right. Daniel Andrews. Again, your website, danielpatrickandrews.com, or you can go to cuttingedgebusinesscoaching.com. Daniel, thank you so much for the conversation. It was a great conversation. Have a good time.

20:08Thanks, Josh.

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