2344 - The Seven Essential Practices to Overcome Insecurity in Midlife with The Insecurity Project's Jaemin Frazer

0:04Well, hey, Thoughtful Leader. Welcome to the Thoughtful Entrepreneur. On this show, I interview purpose-driven founders, experts, and change makers who are making a real impact in the world. Want to be a guest? Simple. Go to upmyinfluence.com and click podcast. I'd love to promote your story to our audience of over 100 ,000 and across over 2 ,300 daily episodes and counting. Want to get booked on other great shows like this? Simple. Go to podverified.com and get your free guest authority score. Thousands of hosts are looking for high quality guests and Podverified connects you the right way. Now let's dive into today's episode.

0:59With us right now, it is Jamin Frazier. Jamin, you are the founder of the Insecurity Project. You are the author of the book, Unhindered, The Seven Essential Practices for Overcoming Insecurity. And you are the host of the Unhindered podcast. I am so excited to have you. Jamin, thank you so much for joining us. Yeah, thanks for having me, Josh. This is going to be great. Yes. Well, listen, before we get going and talking about a topic that I'm really excited to talk about. I always love finding out, you know, what our guests are into, hobbies, movies, TV shows, games, that sort of thing on the side.

1:40And I understand you're watching one of my favorite TV shows, one of my few shows, TV series that I've rated a 10. And that TV series is what? That you are halfway through right now. Ted Lasso, I finally got into it. And I share your opinion. I was a bit skeptical with all the hype, but it's the real deal. It's very special. I think that there are likely so many messages in the show, and there will continue to be so from my memory, around your area of expertise as well, which is exciting. So, Jamin, let's just start. Do you mind sharing a little bit about what your work is? And we'll talk about the book, of course.

2:22Do you mind talking about your work with the Insecurity Project What is that? Yeah, sure. When I launched that, my business coach at the time said, wait, what? The Insecurity Project? That's the wrong name. People are insecure about being insecure. It goes against business modeling. You're supposed to pitch the promise, not the problem. But I just find people suffer greatly for not knowing what to do with insecurity. It's unavoidable. It's inevitable. No one survives their childhood without a measure of woundedness and picking up limiting beliefs. So everyone comes into their adult life with insecurity as a driver.

3:01And it can be useful for a season. It can be rocket fuel to have something to prove and defend. But eventually it's going to turn toxic and it's going to ruin everything. And so my work is really dealing with ambitious midlifers who maybe have used the motivation of proving and defending to achieve great things. And now it's the thing that is most in the way of everything that they desire in life. It is undermining their relationships, their health, their sense of purpose. And I'm convinced it's a solvable problem. Most people think you just manage it. It's part of the human condition. I have a real engineering bent to the way I see the world.

3:38I love structure and systems. And insecurity is a very structured problem. And not only can you solve it, I think you must. I think it's actually your most important adult problem to solve. So the insecurity project is creating high-quality resources and conversations and content directly aimed at a very difficult and scary subject to help dial down the angst. So when people are ready, they can actually eradicate this for good. I have talked to so many of my fellow Gen Xers and elder millennials that are at this age right now. And they have said, you know what? I am experiencing a level of maybe anxiety or sadness or something.

4:21And why now? Why all of a sudden am I struggling with this in a way that I didn't in my earlier years? And I don't know if that's part of your thesis or experience as well. Do you mind sharing what's going on, Jamin? What's wrong with me? No, I should say, by the way, this very topic, we'll talk a little bit more about this as it was just really led me to uncover a lot of those kind of Jungian, Carl Jungian shadow self, you know, looking at, you know, some of those patterns. We'll get into, we'll talk about this, you know, some of the patterns that like when I was like an eight year old, we're getting set.

5:03And now, you know, I'm like having to like, wait a minute, that's not true. you know, that sort of thing. Anyway, let's, let's get back to the organ. What's going on? Why do people start experiencing this more and more in what we'll call the second stage of life? Yeah, look, I used to be on a mission to eradicate all insecurity. And then I heard myself say that one time and I thought, Oh no, you know, when you hear someone on a mission, you know, you're about to be preached at. And so my, I think the most important diagram in my book is the relationship between insecurity and performance as we age, because it is a performance enhancer.

5:38And sport is the greatest example of this. I think the most elite performers in sport are also the most insecure. They've been the small kids, the shy kids, the bullied kids when they were young, and they have got such a drive to have their name up in lights. They will stop at nothing. And you have to stop at nothing if you're going to be the best of the best of the best. And why that works is because of the energy of youth. When you're a young person, you have energy to waste. You do not have to run efficient systems when you were young. You get older, though, and efficiency is the name of the game.

6:11You must optimize. And so no longer can you be stealing from Peter to pay Paul. You know, the exhaustion of driving yourself with no off button and no ability to rest because you must continue to prove yourself by your performance. You realize that you're only as good as your last performance and it's getting harder and harder to perform. And so it all catches up with you. and this driver, it's unsustainable. So I think it's the midlife season when you start to realize energy is running out. Perhaps also you realize that the halfway point of your life is coming up and the way that you are you in the world is not what you dreamed.

6:50And you understand there's a bunch of stuff that isn't automatically going to fix itself. So there's a bunch of really predictable indicators that say the midlife season is the time that insecurity is going to really bite you in the butt. Well, that's crazy because you would have thought that we would have had that all worked out. And I guess maybe because we were just white knuckling, we didn't really notice it was there. Is that what's going on? Yeah, well, I'm a very pragmatic person. So I just think you don't change things that are working. So if you are getting rocket fuel, why in the world would you address that, examine that, ruin that?

7:24If it's working, you would keep it working. So I think the reason people start to examine is things stop working. It catches up with you. So that's a great opportunity for some awareness and reflection, and it's very predictable. But, yeah, young people, it's like, ah, it'll sort itself out. Down the road, I'll get to this eventually, and it's fine. I'm okay. And then all of a sudden one day you wake up and you're not okay and things are falling apart. Well, Jamin, your book in particular, I want to make sure people know about this. Do you mind sharing a little bit about that work and kind of your mission and your message?

8:08Yeah, well, when I uncovered a mountain of insecurity in my own life, it was a great surprise to me. And often, you know, insecurity, you can find yourself in a safe pocket of the world. We're like, no, I'm fine. I'm doing good work. Everyone loves me. And then you step outside of that. And all of a sudden, this mountain of insecurity exposed itself. So that was certainly my journey. And I went on a discovery path to see, is this a solvable problem? Has anyone ever worked this out before? Surely I can't be just me. And I found people that had found their way out the other side of insecurity. I just hadn't found anyone that had modeled the path or anyone who'd made it explicit.

8:46So that became my mission to go, I must find this path explicitly. What are all the steps? Don't miss any of the pieces. And so I reverse engineered this for myself primarily and found a model that works. And then out of the overflow of that, I thought, well, if this works, it would be very unkind of me not to devote some energy and time to clear thinking so that this could work for others. So I don't claim to have invented the seven essential practices for overcoming insecurity. I claim to have modeled it and made it really explicit. And I think it is the complete strategy. I'm sure no one has ever or will ever eradicate insecurity from their life outside of these seven practices.

9:26Yeah. Well, me, I wonder if that's kind of a fool's errand. You know, it's like sometimes we just we have to embrace. And I wonder how much of this is just kind of being comfortable or embracing and say, you know what? You know, this when this thing happens, you know, I get it makes me feel nervous or it makes me feel sad. and to be okay with that, you know, as opposed to, I can share from my own experience and, you know, maybe I just had a unique, you know, kind of earlier adulthood. But, you know, I, I probably was a little bit too, I had a little bit too much toxic happiness going on where I was like, I felt like if I was anything other than happy, that something was wrong.

10:10Now, some of it It had to do with my culture that I chose to be a part of. Not necessarily healthy. But is that it? Is it being comfortable with who we are? Or is it truly kind of deconstructing and reconstructing? I'm a big fan of the deconstruct. And I love turning the lights on and having a look. And my first job is always to examine what it is that we're even talking about. People start to realize they're being motivated by fear, that they are somehow running and hiding. But the really hilarious and ironic fact is no one knows what they're afraid of. Not a single person ever is aware of the exact nature of their fear.

10:56And Yoda's wisdom is, well, named must your fear be before banish it, you can. So the first point is to go, no, no, no. If you could understand what insecurity is, it will change your strategy. So people think they're afraid of some kind of failure or some kind of rejection. That's not it. No one is ever afraid of failure or rejection. They're afraid of the personal implications, the lay of it. What that means, what that means. If I fail, what does that reveal about me? What do you see now? Now it's personal. You see me. If I was rejected, having tried my best. Now, what does that mean about me?

11:29Now you see that I'm not worthy of love, that there's a problem with me. So when you really examine insecurity, you discover it's not the fear of what others think about you. It's the fear of your own worst opinion of yourself being confirmed by the world. And as you alluded to before, you, without a doubt, formed that worst opinion of yourself before you were seven, maybe even before you were four. So, yeah, there's some deconstruction to do, to examine the very structure of what it is that's motivating you, what is driving you, this running and hiding. Are you sure the thing you're running and hiding from is actually true?

12:02when you see the structure of it, it will be in the form of a childish opinion that has gone unexamined. And because it's gone unexamined, it has taken a life of its own and been ensconced around, you know, evidence upon evidence upon evidence to make it feel real. And it never will be. I would imagine that you see some common patterns among high achievers or people that have very high expectations for themselves, maybe where they developed that early on, you know, It could have been maybe there was some conditional love going on. Who knows? But for myself, I know that that was a really big discovery that I had to come to is I was starting to feel sad and anxious.

12:47And there was no seemingly logical reason for me to feel that way. And I think a big portion of that came from being upset about things that I could not control, but yet what that meant about me. So, for example, if I had something that happened that disappointed me in business, wasn't my fault. It was really not a whole lot I could do to change what was going on in someone else's life. But yet there was this underlying belief that that is not something that happens to successful business owners. And that is so, if you were to ask me that logically about somebody else, I would say, that's absurd.

13:32I would never think that way about somebody else. but yet subconsciously that's exactly what i was doing to myself even if you were to ask me logically you know well do you believe that i would say no but you know kind of that young and shadow self side of me was like no no no you do feel a little bit of sense of shame or guilt around that and that man that's just so unfair uh well you mentioned the fact that if you were objective about it and examined anyone else you wouldn't think the same so it turns out one of the structures of overcoming insecurity is objectivity we it's hard to be objective about our own selves so we're very subjective but it is possible to review to step outside and to go back and have a look i've not met a person who who ever wants to do that naturally every day someone would say to me you know jamon you're a coach you're forward focus you know what are the strategies for moving forward you can't change the past it is what it is but like you know people say we don't have to go back in the past surely and I go well no of course I never take people back into the past I mean except where it's necessary yeah and it's always necessary so to strap in of course you will have to go back and review that data that is the structure of your life and no one seems to want to do it but it makes so much sense that if you could just be objective about it you would find key drivers and motivators that if you would just look cleanly you you wouldn't think them about any other person There is no logic and structure to it.

15:00It only exists because you don't examine it. Jamin, share a little bit about your work. Your website is Jamin. I could talk about this subject forever, but I want to make sure that folks who are also intrigued like I am know where they engage with you. And in particular, I'd love to learn about your products. Do you provide coaching? are you doing you know how do you work with folks yeah look i've been encouraged gal my offering and do more but primarily i do one-on-one i do a deep dive for six months i'm not sure anyone fully gets to the bottom of their stuff in the context of a group so um i i know the way without getting in the way and practice five in my model for the seven essential practices is get help from someone who doesn't care about you.

15:53It sounds so counterintuitive, but it's so essential to have someone who doesn't get invested, who's not there to believe you and to encourage you to put air in your tires. That feels good, but it gets in the way. So every hero needs a guide. There's always a wisdom character, but no one's coming to save you. So you must find someone who has actually embodied this, who has found a way to overcome their own insecurity. I think most therapists are just as insecure as the person they're coaching and they're guessing about the way out. And so, yeah, I think we need help. We all need help with this.

16:32You've got to find the right person who knows the way without getting in the way. So I think six months is a great chunk of time to do that. And primarily that is my offering. It is a coaching experience. And of course you have your, By the way, I'm married to a marriage and family therapist. And yes, all therapists have a therapist of their own. And somewhere there is an apex therapist. We don't know who she is. But man, she's incredible, I'm sure. Your book is Be Unhindered, The Seven Essential Practices for Overcoming Insecurity. Obviously, that's available through your website. and you can get it everywhere.

17:16But who should be buying the book and what is the outcome that you would hope other than to truly become unhindered? Well, I think that's the game. That is it, to be able to show up at your best where it matters most, unhindered by self-doubt, fear, and limiting beliefs. And I think that's really where life begins. I don't think overcoming insecurity is the main game. I just think it's a ticket to the game. I think midlife, that's your main job to go back and review the data of how you got here and to make sure the operating system for your whole life is adult, is logical, is rational, is clean and free.

17:51And if you can do that and then show up in the world with nothing to prove and defend, you do your best work. If you are still driven by insecurity into the next season of life, it's a descent into madness. It is not fun to watch, and I promise you it is not peak performance. So if you're someone who is ambitious to do good work can really find yourself, then you will at some point have to deal with insecurity. There's no way around it. So if that's you, well, then I think this is the best resource available to do that work. And for our friends that are listening to a podcast right now, that's you.

18:29You can search in your podcast app right now for Unhindered. And you've been at this a while, Jamin. And congratulations on getting into the 300s of episodes. What do you talk about on your show? Yeah, all variations on a theme. There's some live coaching episodes where someone is willing to have their own stuff aired. And I find those episodes are always the most meaningful because you can't help but try it on for yourself. It's a great gift for someone to be that vulnerable, to be coached, for others to listen. and occasionally I have guests talking about it, but typically it's thought leadership on this subject.

19:08It's just riffing on these themes. My whole world is spent coaxing scared kittens out from under the lounge with a saucer of milk. You know, people, there's so much angst around this subject. So any way that I can dial it down to make it scientific and structural just helps people go, huh, okay, there is a way. And when I'm ready, I could follow this way too. there's a certain level of uh transparency and vulnerability that i appreciate um that that you're talking uh about the language of insecurity and it's almost like it's it's kind of almost like i think a dirty word for some of us you know to not admit that or like oh my gosh i can't believe he's admitting that when we all feel it yeah right so thank you so much jamin for you know kind of introducing that to the public dialogue.

20:00It's important. And I think that the more we discuss it, the more we realize we're all alike. We all deal with this stuff at one degree or another. So thank you so much. Jamin, your website once again is jaminfraser.com. We have the spelling. It's the direct link in the podcast app. The book is called Unhindered, The Seven Essential Practices for Overcoming Insecurity. Jamin Fraser, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much, Josh.

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