2377 - The Transformative Power of Asking and Listening with Empathy with Lushin's Shad Tidler

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0:46Visit podverify.com if you'd like to be featured as a future guest. I'm Josh Elledge. Let's get into it. with us right now shad tiddler shad you are a sales consultant with lucian you're found on the web at lucian.com that's l-u-s-h-i-n.com shad it's great to have you thanks josh i appreciate being on here and looking forward to you know just talking and helping out however i can well i'll tell you you're talking about a very very valuable subject that uh i i know almost everybody in this audience cannot get enough of. And that's honestly, it's making sure that we are staying in business and we're bringing in sales.

1:28We're going to be talking about that. Before we do chat, I always love hearing what leaders are passionate about outside of work, hobbies, movies, music, TV shows. What have you been into lately? Well, two things, Josh. One is travel. My wife and I are big travelers. I've had the benefit of living overseas in India and Hong Kong in my career. You know, yeah, just and just being able to travel, lived in New York City, Philadelphia, then really came back to Indiana. So my wife and I love to travel and she's originally from the Philippines. We generally get back like once a year and, you know, just to travel, you know, that's always a big thing.

2:07It's like we're right now in process just thinking of where we're going to travel this year, next year, kind of, you know, getting all those lists of places. That's a big thing for us. And then the other is I've been really, I've been focused over time, but, you know, really now on longevity, you know, and really focusing on like, what do I need to adjust in my life to be able to live not just even longer years, but have a good quality of life physically and healthy and mentally and spiritually in those later years. So those have, Those have been kind of my two big focuses here in the last probably couple months.

2:41Well, you and I are of similar age, I think, just based on the eras that you and I both went to college. I think we were kind of in college in the same time. So I'm right there with you on that. I wanted to ask you just one question, your perspective. I always love, you know, kind of hearing this answer from folks who have been able to spend a lot of time, you know, again, speaking as an American overseas, right, or just, you know, outside of our own country. As a leader, as someone who, you know, has to work with, you know, lots of different people, how would you describe the value that you have got from, you know, trying to live as much of kind of an international life as possible?

3:25And, you know, particularly, you know, here in the United States, you know, how does it make you a better American? Yeah. And, you know, it's not too many people ask that. Like I'm 100%, you know, just a lot of people, you know, are like, what was the experience like living here? What did you do there? Did you go see this? You know, and that's I appreciate the question there. Um, you know, one of the biggest things is just, it, it really helps you just to stop and think and go why, why that perspective or why, why that particular thing is important to them or they, they have a challenge with it.

4:01Um, it's, I mean, we know we all make assumptions, right? We have biases, we make assumptions, especially based on where we come from, what we do, you know, our experiences, et cetera. the one big thing that traveling's helped me immensely is just to stop and go wait a minute let's pull that aside and what there's got to be a reason why that they're they're thinking that way or bring up and the curiosity behind it like one of the things i love about travel um may sound silly some but you know you grew up watching the indiana jones like you feel like that adventurer when you're out traveling like like i love when we're like flying into someplace new or even someplace, right?

4:37And landing, like, and just exploring different places. And part of it's got to have a curiosity. And I think the more, what's really taught me with, with, with traveling is the curiosity of people too. And some of the best conversations experience I've had have just been being open and talking with people as I've traveled around the world. Well, as someone who is a sales consultant, I can't help, but imagine that this is probably one of the biggest segues that we can make, best segues that we can make into what makes a really, really great. I didn't think about that, but it is. Yeah, or founder who is, and I work with a lot of founders who are still very involved in their sales.

5:16You know, sales, obviously, you know, if you start from a perspective of, you know, here's my opinion, here's my take on it. That's one way. The other one comes from a position of empathy and curiosity and wanting to know more about this other person. And you mind maybe I'll just kind of table set there for you and let you take the ball and run with it on that context. Yeah. The biggest thing is just people don't want to be told what to do. I laugh because my wife and I have this conversation and, you know, we have nieces and nephews. We all have kids ourselves, but nieces and nephews who are anywhere from high school age, you know, up to college.

5:54college and we talk about like when we're interacting with them or they're over is having conversations with them understand where they're at in life and like what they're doing helping them think through things and you know and josh i don't know if you have kids but you know you want to impart you know as the older generation and you'll impart good knowledge and you know and fundamentals and things but they don't like to be told what to do and nobody does um and one of the things that it's helped in sales is that is being able to ask the questions and be curious about going back to what I said earlier, connecting the dots here is that, you know, it's like, there's a reason why.

6:29So for example, if someone, you know, a potential client you're talking to, looks at you and says, well, it's got to be able to do this, or can you guys do this? Or is it able to do that? There's a reason why that's not random, right? And most people, why are you asking random, like whatever, like, you know, nobody, they don't put the thought of thinking of like, there's a reason why, well, it's because there's a challenge that they ran into with with how they're doing now or whatever they're using now right or or they're going this is really important and that's the time to really ask about those things like I think when I travel is like when people ask me about the U.S.

7:02and certain things like I can remember being on a bus in India you know from this town that we had traveled to and going to we're coming back from like this religious site this temple that was very beautiful and so it's like three of us Americans are part of this program I was in and then like the whole rest of the bus was all people from India and a lot of, a lot of like college age kids. And I remember like one kid, like asking me, like we were sitting out talking about the U S and he'd never been, but he was asking me things. He was like, is it like Beverly Hills, 90210? And it, it was like always this connection.

7:33Cause that was a big popular show back then. Right. Um, it was always this connection of that's the experience he's had. And he's asking about that because he's basing certain things and he doesn't know it's, and there's a reason behind it. He goes, well, I always, you know, I want to travel there, but I'm like, I don't know if it's always like that, or is there diversity there. Right. And that was, I think that's been something that's helped me immensely in my sales career is just being able to, you know, ask those questions, just like, well, why do you think it's like that? And he goes, well, I see it on these shows and I've, you know, heard these things.

8:03And so we spent a lot of time talking. I shared with him where I'm from a small farm town in Indiana. It's not like that. Right. Yeah. Are there parts of course, but you know, that's where it comes from. But like, like he was very just like amazed as I shared like this is what it was like growing up and like what my town's like and like you know and like where what it you know is and and helping him see that there was a reason behind that question and that thought from him yeah uh i i can tell you this shad is i i i absolutely think what you're saying right now i i could really um take some action on this uh can i share with you and i think i i'm going to share this because i think i wonder if there are a lot of other founders who are selling on Founder Magic find themselves in my same position.

8:49And I'm sure you have a great prescription here for me. I ask good questions at the beginning. I certainly want to know the context and, you know, kind of feel them out to see how I can help. And then the very enthusiastic professor in me comes out and I'm like, oh, I know the answer to that. I can help you. And I certainly go into talking about, you know, how our product can solve that problem. And I love explaining all of that. And, you know, and clearly, you know, my eyes light up and I get real animated. And, but I think that I probably don't, I mean, I probably could do a lot better in not monopolizing the conversation.

9:34In fact, I was just thinking about this because I did a sales call about an hour ago. And I was like thinking afterwards, I'm like, oh boy, I bet if I were to look at kind of like the zoom breakdown of who talked to the most. I'm like, Oh man, I, it is probably, and this is embarrassing to say, but it is probably close to about 90 to 10, 90, 90 % to 10 % because she wanted to know more. But, um, you know, again, my enthusiasm, because I love what we've created and it truly is genuine. I, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm Ovi even, okay. It's like, Listen, ultimately, it's their response. You know, it's their decision if they want it.

10:12But yeah, I'm really excited to share. Oh, my gosh. And we built this. And it does this. And da, da, da, da. And here's the outcomes that we're creating. That sort of thing. Help me out, Chad, when you get someone like me. Yeah. And Joshua, you explained this very common. And let's take a step back first before I go, hey, here's how to fix. Let's talk about why. Because if you understand, I find if you understand the why, then you go, okay, now the fix can make more sense as to why I would even go there. The reason why we get excited is you are the founder, right? If you think of founder, right?

10:41And you've spent so much time, effort, energy, and the blood, sweat, and tears, and the late nights, and the tough times, that when somebody has that interest, and they want to hear more, and you've had all the rejections of the people that don't want to hear more, right? Or like, we're good. That comes out, because you're like, I want you to understand everything I've been through, and why it's so good. The problem is that passion's good, but the problem that it is is that now they're going, well, now you're kind of showing up like everybody else and telling me all about it versus really understanding what's important.

11:20And really understanding why this is. And you've got some good awareness. If you go back and look at it, it was 90-10. It probably wasn't that bad, I'm sure. But if you go, I've got awareness that I was doing most talking. Yeah, that's actually not helpful. That would be like the analogy I think of is like going to the doctor and going, you know, doctor's like, OK, hey, what's your problem? And, you know, he's like, I got this cough. It's been lingering for a couple of weeks. And he goes, OK, well, I'm going to tell you, like, what are we going to do? And here's the prescription I'm going to give you.

11:49You're probably going to go wait unless it's your family doctor. You've been going to for a while who just trust on a vocally. But if it's a new doctor, you're probably going to go, whoa, no, you don't understand. And if they're going to give you a prescription, you're actually going to go, I'm not going to take this prescription. I'm going to go get a second opinion. Or what a lot of people do is I'm going to go home and I'm going to self-diagnose and then do whatever I find on WebMD or chat GPT or whatever it is, right? And it's because they didn't do enough digging to go down there and to make you to really understand what's most important, right?

12:23And so part of that is we've got that, you know, that excitement. And also we want to look like we know we're the expert. We know what we're doing. And so we think by telling, by explaining, by showing, that's going to get us there. Where actually people go, the experts. And if you ever really know, like watch this, like really, really great people and what they do. And like tops, like they don't talk a lot. They ask a lot of questions. They just ask a lot of stronger questions that really make people think and go, wait a minute. holy crap, I never looked at that way. That's a great question. Why haven't I, you know, and then because of the questions they asked, the process they went through, people go, you must know, and you must be an expert because of that.

13:04Because if not, you wouldn't know to go there. You wouldn't even know to ask about those things. So the fix is to, when you start to feel that excitement, instead of going, I got to talk, you know, what's the next question I can ask? And here's the key questions. It's not only understanding what the problem is, which a lot of us are good at, you know, like we're taught in school, what's the problem and how long has been going on? And, you know, what have you done so far to fix these things, but going deeper to what's most important is like, why is this even a problem for you? Like, why are you even trying to fix this?

13:36And what impact is this having that you're trying to solve, like personally, like on your business? And then the next level is, are they truly committed to solving it? Because you hit the nail on the head. Not everybody is just because you go, I've got the solution or problem doesn't mean they're actually going to take action on it. Great. Shad, how do you help people? Tell me about how Lucian works. Yeah. A lot of times, and we're working with president owner CEOs typically is our starting point. Them, their sales team, their sales management, sales leadership, big, big basic things that we're helping with, Josh.

14:13Number one is, hey, they've been growing. Most organizations we work with actually have been, you know, they've been growing, we've been doing well, but they're going, we want to grow that next level. We don't feel like we're getting in front of enough of the ideal clients to get there. You know, we just kind of take what comes in or what we, you know, our people think are best versus if we're really in front of these folks and selling to them and closing deals, that would make the big, and we're just going, we could get there faster. Or they're saying, Hey, we've got, we've got good opportunities coming in, but we just can't predict anything like based on those opportunities.

14:44Like, you know, it seems like our people are saying they're going to close, they're going to close, and then they don't, or they take a lot longer. And it's becoming harder for us to predict revenue and grow in a systematic way. Or finally, you know, the big thing we hear is like, hey, we got good people, really good, good folks on team, we just don't know what we need to do to help them be more effective selling and like what they're missing or what we're missing as organization to help them get there. So those are the three big areas we help with and figure out like, what's the reason behind that?

15:13Why is that? And then let's set the specific goals and plans and then work with your team and yourself to put those pieces in place to help them grow and implement it in their day-to-day world to hit those goals. Well, already with the advice that you've shared on this conversation, I feel like I'm so much better prepared. And thankfully, I have enough awareness to know that I'm being a little bit of a motor mouth. And I'm like, oh, man, I know I'm not asking enough of the right questions. But what a great analogy that you shared earlier. Shad, I know you've got some resources and kind of next steps for our friend that's been listening.

15:48Your website, we have linked up. It's lushin.com, L-U-S-H-I-N.com. You're a really good follow on LinkedIn personally. And I know you've got some great white papers. You've got a great blog here, videos. where would you recommend people go from here? If they want to talk with me and, you know, further questions or see if I can help if they get our website, Lucian.com and the upper right-hand side, you're going to hear a corner. You're going to see a little button that says talk to coach. If they click on that blue and white button that says talk to coach, it takes them to a landing page, fill in some very basic info, just what they want to talk about.

16:25And then they can actually drop down, select me. And that sends me an email that within 24 hours I'll respond to and schedule some time to talk with them. Yeah. What types of companies do you work with? Anywhere from startups all the way up to some of our biggest clients are billion dollar companies. Mostly based here in the US. I've got a few international I work with. Like I said, a lot of them are we're growing, but we're just stuck. Like we just don't know what we need to do to get to that next level. And we don't know if it's a systems and structure process thing. Is it a people thing? Is it a skills and tools?

16:59Is our leadership? we just don't know. And those are the types of businesses that we work best to help them figure out what it is they don't know. And then let's get the plan and actually help them implement putting that in place. Love it. Shad Tiddler, again, sales consultant with Lucian, found on the web at Lucian.com. When you go to the website and click on the blue button that says talk to a coach, I highly recommend taking a peek at the learning center as well. And of course, if they want to see you personally, see your picture and connect with you, they can click on the meet the coaches and you've got your profile there along with a video of you.

17:35Shan, it's been a great conversation. Thank you so much for joining us. Thanks a lot, Josh. Really appreciate it. And have a great rest of your day. Thanks for listening to The Thoughtful Entrepreneur. If your goal is to grow your business, increase revenue and build authority without gimmicks, this show is designed for you. Each episode gives you practical insight from leaders who have turned trust and credibility into real business results. If you value short, thoughtful conversations that respect your time, make sure you're subscribed. We publish daily 15-minute episodes focused on growth that actually compounds.

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