2399 - Building Soulful Connections by Moving Beyond Surface-Level Conversations with 5 DOTS' Larry Kesslin

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0:46Visit podverify.com if you'd like to be featured as a future guest. I'm Josh Elledge. Let's get into it. with us right now larry kesslin larry you are the chief connector and founder of five dots you're found on the web at five dash dots.com you are also the author of the book the joy molecule how to unlock the power of human connection uh topic i am so incredibly uh a fan of Larry, it's great to have you. The finding joy part or the connecting with other humans part? There's both sides of it. But thank you for having me and pleasure to be here. I would argue that human connection leads to joy.

1:32It's an inevitable outcome. We'll get into that. I don't mean to steal your thunder. Yeah, no, it's perfect. The Harvard study for over the last 85 years has said that you can tell at 50 whether somebody will be happy at 80 based on one criteria. And that criteria is the depth of your relationships at that stage of life. So I would argue that human connection is one of the main reasons we're actually on this planet is to connect, not just with humans, but I think also with the planet, to connect with other animals, to connect with our art and our music, which we were talking about before. So I think we're here to connect.

2:07And I think that's the foundation of our work. Speaking of which, let's talk about, because I don't want to skip the question I love asking for leaders I have on this podcast. leaders who are multi-passionate generally have things that they're really into when they're not at work uh i understand that you and i share a love and passion of music uh yes and and and so tell me tell me about your background music and like uh you know at your age like what what you do to kind of scratch that itch well i mean i played trumpet in high school and i sang all through college and actually traveled through europe with the rutgers glee club back in uh summer of 1982.

2:48Oh my gosh. Yeah, I sang at the Duomo and Chartres and Covent Gardens and in Amsterdam. And it was an amazing trip as an 18 year old. Actually, yeah, I was 18 at the time. So just an amazing experience at that stage of my life. And I do miss singing. I mean, I haven't really been in an organized. When I got out of college, I joined a group in Pittsburgh that did Gilbert and Sullivan plays. And I always would get a lead in those shows and a couple of solos, but I enjoy being on stage, which now I just get on stage to speak. And that's why I write books. And I guess I write books to figure out, to create a platform for myself to say, okay, I learned this.

3:32And the best way to integrate learning is to teach it to others. So, but it's been an interesting journey. Music to me is aligned with my engineering background, which is a math and science thing. It's kind of, they all kind of go together. And I just love, and the way that I scratch my itch now is American Idol and The Voice and some of the other music shows that I get to listen. And you can tell when people have pure voices and when people are struggling, you can hear the just a little bit off key that says, oh, somebody said that sounded great. And I'm like, yeah, but when you hear it, and I was the guy who would always swoop in, And all the people in choir that had perfect pitch, they hated me because I would try and find a note sometimes.

4:16I did not have perfect pitch. That was not a gift God gave me. Connecting humans to each other, gift. Perfect pitch, not gift. We were talking. By the way, you said you played trumpet? I played trumpet in high school. Were you ever in a ska band? I was not, no. Okay. highly recommend it if you get i i've played a little bit of ska on bass uh which is it's it's a fun it's a fun vibe to play of course as a trumpet you know it's one of your one of your main options if you want to get into contemporary and rock music you could you can go the ska route um so um larry let's talk about uh the joy molecule sure uh how to unlock the power of human connection.

4:59I, and, and I'm hoping maybe that you could center this on where we are today in an era where so much of what we are seeing from a content and you know, I'd say just, you know, what we're, what we're exposed to is either now being created more and more by artificial intelligence, or at least, you know, it's being not subsidized, but enhanced by AI. But yet as humans, you know, we have, you know, millennia of background that have wired us in a certain way to, you know, to crave that which is created and is run by humans or is human. we have an energy each of us and that energy expands outside of our physical being so as much as video has been great for connecting with people around the world and I talk to my parents regularly via video and they live in Florida and I live in San Diego and the technology is amazing and I went to school for engineering and it's been 40 years of my career but I've never I got out of selling technology almost 36 years ago or 35 years ago and I have no desire to ever sell technology again, because I love the human experience.

6:22And I use technology every day, but I actually run potluck dinners here in San Diego. I do the right thing. I bring together, last week I had 17 people. They all brought something. I send out an email in advance, who wants to bring main dishes, who's bringing sides, who's bringing appetizers, who's bringing dessert. And I bring people together to get to know each other. And I created this deck of cards. My book is all about knowing what you are, who you are, and why you are. That's my definition of joy. When you know those three things, you are yourself. And nobody can tell you anything other than what you are.

6:55And you walk this planet in peace. Yet most of our society here in the US is very focused on the what. They don't spend enough time on the who and the why. So I was speaking to this public speaker. And I said, you know, I want to create a laminated card to give it to everybody in the audience with 50 questions that have nothing to do with what you do. because josh i took six months and i traveled around the world with my kids in 2015 i took them out of school they were in seventh and ninth grade and i went to 12 different countries 27 airbnbs over six months australia middle east and europe and nobody asked me what i did nobody and then i get back to san diego and everybody so what do you do what do you do and i stopped answering the question i just said well i'm a dad first and at the time i was a husband and i'm an entrepreneur.

7:43And they would say, but what do you do? I'm like, I play a lot of pickleball and I cycle and I play golf and I love being a dad and I go camping with my kids and I do all this stuff with my children. No, no, no, no. What do you do? I'm like, I just told you what I do. If you want to know how I make a living, that's a whole nother conversation. And I only really want to know who, how people make a living if I align with their values. So I made this deck of cards instead of one laminated car with 50 questions. He said, why don't you make a deck of cards? So I have a card deck, it's called spark cards.

8:18And you can actually, there are 54 questions, 52 questions with the suits and two jokers. The two of each suit is the least vulnerable question. And the ace is the most vulnerable and the two jokers are over the top. But it's about starting conversations with people that have nothing to do with what do you do? Because if I could have one goal in this lifetime for every business person out there, stop asking people what they do and get to know who they are, it will change your life. It would change the quality of your relationships. I mean, what you do is a great starter, but it's a surface level resume connection, a who connection, like around your values and how you show up and your essence and your way of being.

8:58That's a really good deeper connection, but a why connection. When you connect around purpose, around why you are on this planet. And for me right now, I do a lot of work with nonprofits. 50 % of the book's proceeds goes to two causes. One's called Boys to Men Mentoring here in San Diego and the other's Challenged Athletes Foundation. There's actually three stories in the book. The book is eight stories of people I've met since I got back from Africa in 2012 and the five lessons they've taught me about my search for joy. And when I got to Africa, I met people that I was trying to help and make a difference for.

9:33We were bringing computers to rural villages. And I met people that are happier, were happier than anybody I've ever met in my life. And then I came back after a month. I was so blown away. I said, I'm done with success. I need to be significant. Hence the book behind me, Success Redefined was published two and a half years later. I realized that success without significance isn't success at all. So I had to redefine success for myself. And I got to the point where I got to this conference and I was asked three questions that changed the trajectory of my life through that trip to Africa, plus these three questions, which were, what is poverty?

10:11Who gets to define it? And why are we trying to fix it? And my mind just exploded because I just got back from a place that was poor. But those people were happier and more joyful than anybody I'd ever met. So what was the disconnect? And the disconnect for me is I believe that they were just impoverished. They're not poor. They're deeply connected. They're connected to the land because they're still farming it. They're connected to their ancestors because there's no computer to give them the answers that we get today. And they don't send their elders to retirement facilities to go die. They're actually engaged and they get all their wisdom from their elders.

10:48And there was a guy there, a young man, he was telling me about the history of the United States. I'm like, no, that's not true. Well, that's what my grandmother told me and I believe it. So it doesn't matter. Truth is not as important as the connection between the generations. So they were connected to people. They were connected to their history. They were connected to the land. They were just deeply connected. And we're not. So from that conversation, I took away this idea that we're poor. They're just impoverished. We are emotionally and spiritually poor as a culture. And if you're looking at this from an entrepreneurial perspective, asking people to come to work just to produce financial return is an empty pursuit for me.

11:29Now, there are plenty of people that do it. and God bless them. And I hope they live wonderful lives. But if we're here to engage, if we're here to be human, then how do you get to know? I used to tell all my clients, I ran peer groups for over 25 years. And I would tell all of my CEOs, keep a black book for every employee in your company. And instead of writing them a check for 500 bucks, know what they would love you to buy them for$500 that they wouldn't spend their own money on. Because front row tickets to a certain football game for one of your employees is worth more than a$10 ,000 bonus because they would never spend it on themselves.

12:03Or whatever that was for a person, a simple trip or a dinner at a beautiful restaurant that they have always wanted to go to, but couldn't afford. Those things, when you make business human, when you connect people based on who you know them to be versus what you need from them in order for you to make money, I think that's when businesses shift. But this whole journey for me has been all about stop focusing on what we do and start focusing on who we are, why we're here. And my biggest cause right now is how do I help young people build a meaningful life? Like I work with Boys to Men. I'm also engaged with an organization here in town that I'm starting to get to know called First Gen Scholars.

12:47And I really look at this whole work readiness world, I think is where my cause is most rooted is how do I help young people prepare for life? Whether that's a teenager who doesn't have a dad, or that's a college student who's lost, whatever that looks like, that is where my passions lie. Well, Larry, your book, I know, I know professionally, you're a speaker, can I, can I share just obviously, obviously, you've got the book. But I know that professionally, I don't know if you do coaching or consulting. I do a lot of coaching. Yes. Did you mind sharing a little bit. So to our friend that happens to be listening to this and they're like, I love what Larry's talking about.

13:25How can I work with him? So I mostly work with people that are successful based on society's definition of success and are wondering why they don't feel as happy as they thought they would when they were chasing it in the first place. Because that's where I was when I got back from Africa. I had the best year of my career. So 2012, 13, 14 were spectacular years for me financially. And I was empty. My I was emotionally distraught. My kids were at that time, what, 12, 13, 14. My business was cruising. I was making a lot of money and I was traveling all over the world trying to make an impact to fill that void.

14:03And all I can tell you is 13 years later, I figured out why that void exists. And it exists because my mind believes that it is the boss of this vehicle. And my mind is a tool for me to have access to that I can enjoy my life with its presence. So I find a lot of people that I meet that are super talented and chasing the American dream and have no peace. They don't sleep well. They are struggling with their humanity. They're struggling with existential questions. And they're trying to figure out, well, I did everything that society taught me to do. On the outside, I look incredibly successful.

14:41My marriage is good, bad, indifferent, irrelevant. I love my kids and I know there's something missing. And that's what I've been chasing for well over a decade. And I've come up with answers for me. And I, in my coaching work, I'm very open with my own journey. I'm very open with my own experiences. And I love helping people understand that I use this all the time, that I am the sky. My thoughts are the clouds and my feelings are the weather. And there's always going to be days when the clouds are dark, but just know that you are the sky above your thoughts and you are the one viewing them. But most people believe that their thought process, we could go into this for hours, but our belief system and our identity are closely tied to all of our experiences in our life, our observation of those experiences and our interpretation of those observations.

15:30And that creates our belief system, which is just a protective mechanism to keep us safe and comfortable. Again, everything I say, and I tell this to my clients. These are my opinions. I'm not saying I'm a guru, I'm a genius or anything like that. I just know that at the end of the day, that I'm a human, I'm here to have an experience. And that experience is so much more beautiful when I'm present. And I'm not worried about what happened in the past. And I'm not thinking about what's happening in the future, because those two don't exist. The only moment that exists is right now. And I meet so many people that are struggling with being present.

16:03They can't meditate, they can't do mindfulness, they can't spend time alone, They need so much. And I have a really, I love holding space to let people be uncomfortable in the uncomfortable and then helping them understand why and how to find more peace in their life because we're here to enjoy this journey. And most of the people I meet are not enjoying it as much as they thought they would with the accomplishments and the achievements that they've accomplished. And they have sleeplessness and they have pain and they live in this state of anxiety or something that they can't just sit there and be okay with being themselves in this moment without anything else around them.

16:48They need something. They need their addictions. They need their people, whatever. but we're here to experience. We are all connected. And I truly believe that. And I love helping people find that center, finding that peace. And I am a business guy. Like I am not, I did not wake up. I didn't grow up with all this stuff. I feel like I intersect business, philanthropy, and spirituality. Like I live in all three buckets and I like all three buckets. And I love having conversations with people about all different topics. And I'm incredibly curious And that's, I think, what makes me a very good coach.

17:26Larry Kesslin, your book is The Joy Molecule. Your website is five-dots.com. I was just looking at your spark cards, which again, when you go to five-dots, you'll see a link to that. Very cool. Get to know you. if you're talking with someone that you want to kind of bring the conversation down or to, you know, kind of a more human, connective, yeah, more human level, that's for sure. So these are great. So, well, Larry's great conversation. Thank you so much for joining us. My pleasure, Josh. Appreciate what you're doing with everything on your podcast and with Pod Verified and appreciate how you are helping people find their way on this world of podcasting.

18:08Very kind of you. Thank you.

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