476 - Epstein Docs & A Culture Of Slop

29:54Tim Dillon:Maybe we're just letting too many people into the country. And maybe those people are gonna eventually be desperate like the people that currently live here, okay? And maybe those people are gonna turn is some type of fraud or crime. It's like completely natural and normal. But like every reaction to everything is so dialed up insane crazy. You know? This January, Bare Knuckle Fighting Championship takes over the ocean. The inaugural Bruise Cruise sails from Miami to the Bahamas aboard the Norwegian Jewel. Three straight days with pool deck bare knuckle fights in the Caribbean. Massive parties, beach events, DJs, cigars, tequila tastings and non-stop action.

30:39Tim Dillon:The lineup reveals coming soon. Cabins are disappearing fast and the prices won't stay this low. Reserve your spot with just$200 down at BKFSEA.com. Saturday, September 26th, two of combat sports most dangerous strikers collide. Bare Knuckle. Liverpool's own Darren the Gorilla Till goes to war with Cuban powerhouse Yoel Soldier of God Romero. Plus the Bare Knuckle Middleweight Championship of the World is on the line when the reigning champ Dave the Redneck Mundell defends against undefeated British challenger Jack the Meat Cleaver Colon. BKFC 94, Till vs. Romero. Watch it live only on DAZN. Sign up now at DAZN.com.

31:22Andy and Anna here from your new favourite podcast, No Such Thing as a Fish.

31:27Tim Dillon:Yes, we are two of the four hosts of the podcast that stuffs fascinating, amazing, weird, mad facts into your ears on a weekly basis. You got any good facts, Andy? Yes, how about this one? Anteaters have evolved on 12 separate occasions. Wow. Mysterious, wonderful. The world really wants them to exist. What about this one? When Ronald Reagan left office, he left a note on the White House lawn for the squirrels warning them to beware of George Bush's dogs. So there you go. If you like fascinating facts and much more besides, we are No Such Thing As A Fish. Saturday, September 26th Two of combat sports' most dangerous strikers collide Bare Knuckle Liverpool's own Darren the Gorilla Till Goes to war with Cuban powerhouse Yoel Soldier of God Romero Plus the Bare Knuckle Middleweight Championship Of the World is on the line When the reigning champ Dave the Redneck Mundell Defends against undefeated British challenger Jack the Meek Cleaver Colon BKFC 94 Till vs.

32:27Tim Dillon:Romero Watch it live only on DAZN Sign up now at DAZN.com. It's completely batshit. All everybody wants to do now is go to like a store and spend$75 on a smoothie. They want to biohack and live forever. Why? God, why? Why do you want to live forever? To watch celebrities continue to have fat sucked out of their faces by some machine? Why do you want to live forever? What exactly are you planning to do? You think this thing turns around? This biohacking stuff, all these guys microdosing everything, trying to level up to the best versions of themselves. I mean, great, more power to you, do what you want.

33:11Tim Dillon:What exactly is this all for? You want to be here in 30 years? You want to be here when we're talking about President Jake Paul's administration and why they're not doing more to stem the conflict in, you know, the civil war that's happening in our country? Like, what exactly are you people living for? Quite frankly, honestly, rationally, can you explain to me why you want to be here for the next 75 years? Is that exciting? Is it that exciting? It's actually creepy and strange. The music all blends together now into just a lot. There's some good music for sure. But a lot of the stuff you're listening to, It's just this odd, strange, it's just like corporate drivel.

34:03Tim Dillon:And you're just meant to listen to it while online at a salad place. Before you get in the elevator and it takes you back up to this flex space that you're working in. and you get on your MacBook and you just, again, you float off into nothingness. You do nothing. People are just filling their time and they're filling their time in the absolute worst way possible. There's this idea of what a perfect life is. It's been drilled into these people's heads. They need the right things all the time. The best schools and the right neighborhood. West Village girls. Like, you know, you need the best coffee.

34:54Tim Dillon:You need the great food. You got to get the table at the right restaurant. Fuck you. I'm embarrassed. Go to New York, I'm embarrassed. These pigs at Carbonium, embarrassed. Spicy rigatoni. I'm embarrassed by what has happened to a great city. Stop. It's disgusting. It's disgusting and repulsive. Your behavior is repulsive. it really is it's fucking 10 restaurants you read about on Instagram you get to wait 4 months so you can drag your friends to go to the corner store you can eat caviar and think it's something I mean it's just I'm just completely whatever this is is nothing it's not culture it's not trust me trust me this isn't culture whatever this is whatever you think you're participating in it's not it's not worth your $7 ,000 a month rent whatever you think you're doing is nothing.

35:51Tim Dillon:You know, I mean, truly. Now these Epstein documents, say what you want. Say what you want about Jeffrey and Ghislaine and the Trumps and the Clintons, but they had class. They had class. They went to the best places in the world and they raped, murdered, and tortured people. And yes, a way that I would live? No No Sort of evil, a little demonic But it was culture It was culture And it's a bad cult It's not a good culture It's not ideal It's less than ideal Certainly less than ideal But That was the culture of our world We have to accept it I don't want it to continue and I want the people that participated in it to go to jail.

36:45Tim Dillon:But that was our culture. We didn't even know it, but we did. Sam Chris has kind of a great article about that. If you read his stuff and you should. But that's the thing. It's like, this was our culture. For a very long time, it was domination. Evil.

37:10Tim Dillon:Exploitation. Bad. bad, not good, but it was our culture. It was our culture, you know, and, you know, we're coming to terms with that. We're coming to terms with that, and it's going to take, it's a little bit of a pill to swallow, is it not? It's a little bit of a pill to swallow, huh? It's a little bit of a pill. It's a little bit of a pill. You ever get sick as a kid, and your mom's like, you got to take this one. And you're like, ugh. She's like, this one is everyone that rules over you is a satanic pedophile. You're like, oh no, not this one. It's a little bit of a pill to swallow, but that's where a lot of this comes from.

37:52Tim Dillon:This is the runoff. What you're seeing now is the runoff of people living to pretend that that isn't true. It is the denial of that culture that has produced this culture. Listen up, I'll say it again. I'll say it again. I should be paid more for this, frankly. I'll say it again. It is the denial of that culture that has manufactured this culture of nothingness. It is the unwillingness to look that in the face that has produced slop. That's what it is. It is the discomfort that comes from facing the fact that your greatest fears are true. And you're unable to process that, so you dive into the Eras Tour.

38:47Tim Dillon:You backstroke through the fucking, you know, restaurant that serves the thing from the app that you saw. You try to vacation in the right place to take the edge off. you know it is the denial of truth that has delivered you here into nothingness into emptiness into a place where do you want to see the amenities the building is really nice but you've got to see the amenities the amenities are really over the top the HOA is really high but you have to see it because the amenities are so worth it the amenities are amazing there's this amazing room you can use it if you have a party like 12 to 15 people.

39:37Tim Dillon:You want to do a dinner. You can bring in a private chef. You can bring in a private chef. It's so amazing. They'll set right up and they'll do a dinner. You can actually bring in servants and a bartender. I've done it before. It's amazing. It actually connects to a terrace. What's great about it is it's actually for everyone in the building to use. You can reserve it, but it's very easy. You just do it on the app. Is the world run by satanic pedophiles? There's also a rooftop garden. It's amazing. I go up there. I have coffee all the time. You can go. So you get a special key when you come here and it'll only go to your floor.

40:09Tim Dillon:So you don't have to worry about any of the security. And at the top of the building, there's a rooftop garden and you can sit there and you can even do yoga because it's actually super private. There's like alcoves. Right. So let me ask you, do you think that our civilization is run by like evil pedophiles that are murdering and torturing children? And next year, the restaurant opens. So like, I don't even want to talk about the restaurant because it's literally so amazing and you can't have it right now. But within five months, we have a celebrity chef who's opening a restaurant. It's like Mediterranean, but it's also kind of like more on the Italian side.

40:45Tim Dillon:It's like super perfect. It's like amazing. It's great for like light bites in the morning. And then you can like even grab like coffee and breakfast. And then there's like a lunch and then there's like a dinner. And even I've heard this. I've actually heard this. I've actually heard this. I can't confirm, but I've heard, can't confirm, but I've heard that they can actually cater your party in the private amenity space. Like the restaurant can cater your party in the amenity space. Wow. That sounds really good. Why do you think that woman got shot in the face in Oklahoma? Well, anyway, if you want it, just speak to your realtor because it's going to go really, really fast.

41:25Tim Dillon:We already have so many people coming back to see it for a second and third showing. Cool. and I just heard that around the block, that like super exclusive restaurant that nobody can get into, Tate McRae was there last night. Wow. Well, thank you for this info. You've given me a lot to think about and it is the denial of that culture that has produced this one. Okay.

41:56Tim Dillon:Looking that in the face is very hard to do and when you refuse to do that, you can only concern yourself with the minutia, the meaningless, the bullshit, the empty signifiers of status that are splashed across social media, ultimately adding up to nothing. But that's the point. nothing is the point they don't want you asking any questions about anything real they want you to play the game not for any reward not for a trophy not for glory not for honor not for pride they want you to play the game because it distracts you from the game that's the whole thing you're playing this game it's called the rat race whatever you want to call it you're distracted from what's really happening where the money's going who's disappearing, who's being threatened who's being intimidated, who's being murdered on whose behalf it's all happening all the clans and groups and little huddles of people trying to exert power and trying to manifest their reality all of that you ignore because you're playing a very hard game that involves the accumulation of money, the signifiers of status.

43:33Tim Dillon:It involves the right life, the right friends, the right people, the right tastes, the right opinions, the right concerts. It involves all of that and it's designed, it's curated for you to participate in and only have a small glance at what's actually happening, what's actually going on, the things that are driving society off a cliff. That's not by accident. And to think it is, you would have to be incredibly naive. You would have to be incredibly naive. I feel terrible for what happened to Rob and Michelle Reiner but as a good friend of mine recently said, Ray Kump, he said the best thing that can happen in this country is for your kids to kill you it's truly the win it's truly the win have it be your family it's coming anyway have it be your family it's coming anyway.

44:40Tim Dillon:How lovely to die by the hand of your own blood in a world such as this. Happy New Year, everybody. We'll see you on the other side. Bye bye. Saturday, September 26th, two of combat sports' most dangerous strikers collide. Bare Knuckle. Liverpool's own Darren the Gorilla Till goes to war with Cuban powerhouse Yoel Soldier of God Romero. Plus the bare knuckle middleweight championship of the world is on the line. When the reigning champ Dave the Redneck Mundell defends against undefeated British challenger Jack the Meek Pleaver Cullen. BKFC 94. Till vs. Romero. Watch it live only on DAZN. Sign up now at DAZN.com.

45:26Andy and Anna here from your new favorite podcast, No Such Thing as a Fish.

45:32Tim Dillon:Yes, we are two of the four hosts of the podcast. that stuffs fascinating, amazing, weird, mad facts into your ears on a weekly basis. You got any good facts, Andy? Yes, how about this one? Anteaters have evolved on 12 separate occasions. Wow. Mysterious, wonderful. The world really wants them to exist. What about this one? When Ronald Reagan left office, he left a note on the White House lawn for the squirrels warning them to beware of George Bush's dogs. So there you go. If you like fascinating facts and much more besides, we are No Such Thing as a Fish.

46:35Tim Dillon:Sign up now at DAZN.com. Andy and Anna here from your new favourite podcast, No Such Thing as a Fish. Yes, we are two of the four hosts of the podcast that stuffs fascinating, amazing, weird, mad facts into your ears on a weekly basis. You got any good facts, Andy? Yes, how about this one? Anteaters have evolved on 12 separate occasions. Wow. Mysterious, wonderful. The world really wants them to exist. What about this one? When Ronald Reagan left office, he left a note on the White House lawn for the squirrels, warning them to beware of George Bush's dogs. So there you go. If you like fascinating facts and much more besides, we are no such thing as a fish.

47:20Tim Dillon:Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the show. Ryan Grimm, who writes at DropSite News, which has done the best reporting on the Epstein case. This is not even debatable. We talked about one of their articles a few weeks ago where Jeffrey Epstein was back-channeling to try to get a meeting with Vladimir Putin between Vladimir Putin and the ex-Israeli prime minister to talk about the Syrian civil war. We talked about that on the show. And people send me drop-site news all the time and go, you got to read this article. Steve Bannon and again you guys aren't ideologically aligned but Steve Bannon has even praised you as a good journalist like people from many different political persuasions even I think people on the Epstein list are saying this is good even the pedophiles are going he's doing he's doing the work so hey this is legit so Ryan thank you again for coming I appreciate it it's the holidays and I appreciate you making time for us If you could sum up as just an introductory statement for the uninitiated, when you look at this new dump of Epstein files that just came out, number one, tell people, you know, surmise for people what exactly you think the Epstein operation was, if there was one.

48:53Tim Dillon:You know, the FBI says there, you know, said that there wasn't, but they have all these files suggesting maybe there is. What was this operation? And I don't know how many of these files you've looked through in the new files. Has any of your opinion changed with regard to the scope of the operation, the intent of the operation or any of the key players? Yeah, I think that my take on this is actually, usually you go into the reporting and you find out that the story you're looking for isn't quite all the way there. It's not quite as interesting as you kind of imagined that it might be. This kind of has been the reverse.

49:35Like this, you keep peeling the layers back and you're like, oh, wow, that was true. That was true. That was true. And on and on. You know, when they say there was no Epstein operation, it's like the guy's been doing a lot of operating for many decades. And at some point, you're going to have to call that an operation because it's he keeps becoming involved and he keeps being found from Iran-Contra all the way up to the things that you were talking about. the Syrian civil war, like a lot going on in Africa, which was a piece of Iran-Contra as well, the kind of unspoken piece of it. The fact that he focused so much on Africa really shows that he really does kind of know where power flows and where money, commodities, and resources flow.

50:27So yeah, there's an awful lot there.

50:30Tim Dillon:Part of the question with Jeffrey Epstein has always been about definitions? Is he an agent? Is he an associate? Is he a, what in the, in the murky world of intelligence, what was Jeffrey Epstein? Was he employed by the Mossad or the CIA or MI6? Was he a liaison that worked with all of these different agencies from your reporting? What would you call him if you had to call him something? Well, we don't have a W-9 or anything from Epstein. And I think that that kind of misunderstands the relationship. Like if you think about Mossad, for instance, or the CIA, like running people. Yeah, they are organizations and they have ambitions, they have projects.

51:18But he was operating at a layer above, I think. The Mossad and the CIA, they're there to serve the major power centers throughout the world. and different factions within them serve different factions at different times. But if you think of the kind of global elite as kind of organized around that Davos conference or this Davos crew out there, like the CIA, it's more properly understood that the CIA works for them. And Jeffrey Epstein was an integral player in that Davos set. And I think sometimes his allies and he himself was, he was waning. He's not doing as well. Other times his power is on the rise.

52:00You know, that's how it works inside nebulous organizations like this. But he's right there at the center of this, you know, fundamentally undemocratic global institution. It's not even an institution. It's just this amoebic type of entity. He's right there in the middle of it, you know, and he still has to jockey for power. But he is then able to deploy his own assets, whether it's Mossad or whether it's people in the CIA, in order to serve he and his allies' own interests, which sometimes align with the interests of Israel, sometimes align with the interests of the U.S., but they're also self-serving interests.

52:36Tim Dillon:What are the main concerns, the primary objectives of the, quote, Davos set? Is it a monolith or do those people have varied interests? I think it's well, they're they're in competition with each other for each other's resources, for sure. But they're also in competition with the ninety nine point nine percent of the world that doesn't really want them to exist. And so what they're trying to do is kind of justify their existence and maintain their power and justify their existence. That's why when they get together, they often talk about the kinds of things that would be wonderful if they delivered on them.

53:14You know, they're going to end world hunger or they're going to end illiteracy around the world. They're going to go after disease and malnutrition. They're going to reverse climate change. and yet some of it somehow it just all keeps getting worse and and their power continues continues to grow and their wealth continues to be concentrated at the very top uh so their their their goal is i think self-perpetuation and kind of continuing to lock down you know their their position in the world and to keep the the public at at bay because they're fundamentally an

53:47Tim Dillon:undemocratic uh entity someone uh katherine austin fits describes some of the people you're talking about as intergenerational pools of capital. Does that make sense to you? Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yes. And they're also, they're very much transnational. Right. Like they are not American. They're not Israeli. They're not Chinese. Like if they're Chinese, they actually have a little bit more strings attached to what they're able to do. But in the Western ones, you know, they're looking for their own sovereignty. And what it appears like is going on with Epstein and his work with Israel, and also the UAE, we're going to have a lot more to come about his work with Saudi Arabia and the UAE.

54:32What the UAE and Israel both figured out is that when you're operating in this kind of world that is filled with nation states, nation states have particular rights. They can vote in the UN, they can set up banks, Those banks can then move money and those banks are then subject to the laws and the judiciary kind of within those states. And if the national security apparatus controls that judiciary, you can basically be a criminal gang. So the United Arab Emirates, for instance, they're doing enormous amounts of money laundering. Like if all of this, all this wealth that's coming out of Africa is, you know, flows right into into the UAE and then they skim off the top.

55:15You're like, how is this? How are they doing this? This is basically mafia stuff. It's like, well, they call themselves a state. They call themselves a government so they can so they can do that. And Israel does a version of that as well, where the state is aligned with the companies and they have this protection that they can operate in a way where if they were just private actors, like, wait, you can't do that.

55:33Tim Dillon:Right. So it's kind of a cartel. Yeah, right. It's a legalized cartel that operates as a state. What role does sexual blackmail play in this? You know, obviously Epstein spent years engaging in horrific abuses. And he was, you know, he got a slap on the wrist. You know, he had a very light sentence regard to the crime. They charged him with a very specific crime. There were many victims. He was only charged with crime. What role does number one, do you believe it was a blackmail operation? And then if so, in when we talk about these cartels, when we talk about money laundering, we talk about, you know, people that are trying to evade the democratic process, the legal process.

56:26Tim Dillon:what role does Jeffrey Epstein's sexual proclivities, and I'm not saying it lightly, proclivities, but his sexual crimes, what role do they play in this larger picture? And your point about them only charging him with one girl is a key one. And his lawyers were so successful, they got him charged with the 17-year-old. Right. Even though there were dozens, and some as young as like 14 or even younger, and so then his revisionist friends can say oh it was 17 year old right what you know he didn't he didn't know and then you look at it oh that's all he got charged with okay let's go let's get back into business buddy rather than oh dozens like even much younger i mean he's a fully evil man and i think just lane maxwell's like when you read these documents and and even the prior documents it's very hard to come away with any other picture than that these were evil people engaging in acts of extreme abuse, rape, perhaps murder.

57:34Tim Dillon:We don't know. Things like that. And with total remorse and doing it on a, like, seems like daily basis. Right. Remorseless. Yeah, absolutely. 40 to 50 years. But it's interesting what what you need a Jeffrey Epstein for going back to our kind of trans national cartel operating as a state kind of thing is that if you want to move money, guns, let's you know, let's say you want to move weapons from Iran to the Contras in Nicaragua or you want to move them to some type of rebel group in Africa when Congress has told you you can't fund this rebel group. in Africa, or you've got blood diamonds that you've got to get moving out.

58:15You can't really go to the, like the white shoe firms for that. Right. They're going to be like, you know, let me get your, you know, your client here. Like, how do we know that this person isn't sanctioned? This appears to be a terrorist organization that you're shipping weapons to. Right. Is that, did you say Iran is involved in this? I thought we're a war with them. Yeah. So what you need is somebody who lives in the gray area. And those people are very useful. And so when the New York Times, for instance, says, you know, there's all these conspiracies about Jeffrey Epstein, but in fact, he's just actually a giant con artist.

58:56That's missing the point. To work in that realm of the spy world, in the shadows, you're going to be a con artist. You're going to be the kind of person that pushes things to the edge and then over it. And so that's what you see time and time again with Epstein is that, for instance, we wrote about – actually, I don't know if we've written about this one yet. But George Mitchell, former senator who was secretary of state under Clinton, he needed to go to Sudan back in the 2000s because he was running for president. And he wanted to broker – it looked like he was going to broker a truce in Sudan.

59:33And in order to get in there, he reached out to Jeffrey Epstein. He's like, who's got the jets? Who can move me into a warlord zone? And it's somebody like Epstein. He ended up not using Epstein, but Epstein was able to put it together. And then he announced a completely fake truce that fell apart a day later and used it in his presidential campaign. But that's the kind of thing you need him for. Like, I need to move money. I need to move guns, diamonds, minerals, commodities. Things have to happen. It has to happen quickly, and it has to be done off the books. And that's what people like Epstein are for, who just have no morality whatsoever.

1:00:14Tim Dillon:Is he blackmailing these people and keeping the information himself? Is that information then going to another state like Israel? Is it going to the highest bidder? he's photographing and recording people. Where is all this information going? We don't yet like have evidence of, Hey, I've got footage of you. Right. You need to do X. We do have him being just absurdly aggressive to people like Leon Black and, and Les Wexner and emails in a way where you're like, this is not how the power dynamic between an accountant and a multi-billionaire. These are two billionaires. Les Wexner, billionaire, Leon Black Billionaire.

1:00:54Right.

1:00:55Tim Dillon:So when he's being uber aggressive in those emails as a journalist, does that lead you to believe that he has some leverage? What you what you can say for sure is that there is implicit blackmail going on under there. Right. Like because they allegedly are engaged in all of these types of activities. So just by definition, Epstein would know and they would know that Epstein knows what he's involved with. Now they deny that, but, you know, there's been plenty of reporting that, um, that he, that all his friends and quote unquote friends like knew what he was up to. Right. Um, even Ehud Barak, um, in one of the emails, he's asking how he can, uh, how he can win over this banker that he wants to work with for this one, um, this, this deal.

1:01:47and he says ladies is your forte to to epstein right i was like and people who who i've talked to who met him within within like 30 seconds are like this guy's complete and total creep right like he's just he's just oozing creep vibes so the people that stayed in his life like very much understood that and so they know in the back of their mind um that he knows that now at the same time what what the emails and the documents that we've gone through show is that he He was actually effective at doing the things he said he was going to do. Like he's going to get you your tax breaks. He's going to get you your meeting with Putin.

1:02:25Tim Dillon:Saturday, September 26th, two of combat sports' most dangerous strikers collide. Bare Knuckle. Liverpool's own Darren the Gorilla Till goes to war with Cuban powerhouse Yoel Soldier of God Romero. Plus, the Bare Knuckle Middleweight Championship of the World is on the line when the reigning champ Dave the Redneck Mundell defends against undefeated British challenger Jack the Meek Cleaver Colon. BKFC 94. Till vs. Romero. Watch it live only on DAZN. Sign up now at DAZN.com. Andy and Anna here from your new favourite podcast, No Such Thing as a Fish. Yes, we are two of the four hosts of the podcast that stuffs fascinating, amazing, weird, mad facts into your ears on a weekly basis.

1:03:13Tim Dillon:You got any good facts, Andy? Yes, how about this one? Anteaters have evolved on 12 separate occasions. Wow. Mysterious, wonderful. The world really wants them to exist. What about this one? When Ronald Reagan left office, he left a note on the White House lawn for the squirrels, warning them to beware of George Bush's dogs. So there you go. If you like fascinating facts and much more besides, we are No Such Thing As A Fish.

1:03:52Tim Dillon:The bare-knuckle middleweight championship of the world is on the line. When the reigning champ Dave the Redneck Mundell defends against undefeated British challenger Jack the Meek Cleaver Cullen. BKFC 94. Till vs. Romero. Watch it live only on DAZN. Sign up now at DAZN.com. Andy and Anna here from your new favourite podcast, No Such Thing as a Fish. Yes, we are two of the four hosts of the podcast. that stuffs fascinating, amazing, weird, mad facts into your ears on a weekly basis. You got any good facts, Andy? Yes, how about this one? Anteaters have evolved on 12 separate occasions. Wow. Mysterious, wonderful.

1:04:35Tim Dillon:The world really wants them to exist. What about this one? When Ronald Reagan left office, he left a note on the White House lawn for the squirrels warning them to beware of George Bush's dogs. So there you go. If you like fascinating facts and much more besides, we are no such thing as a fish. Ryan, this is the real question. Jeffrey Epstein is a math teacher at the Dalton School, which is a prep school in New York City, very expensive, very well regarded. He's hired by Bill Barr's father, Donald Barr. Donald Barr wrote a novel about, a science fiction novel about the elites of a fake planet using sex slaves on that planet.

1:05:20Tim Dillon:There was a class of people on the planet that were sex slaves. He was a novelist, whatever. I don't know. Is it a right? Would you know? We don't know. But so Jeffrey Epstein is working for this man who's written some questionable literature, whose son then becomes the attorney general. He's at Dalton, which is a private school. He is not a math genius. It's not the guy from A Beautiful Mind. He's not winning Nobel Prizes in mathematics. He somehow links up with Les Wexner, billionaire owner of Victoria's Secret, the limited brands, the Gap, things like that. Then, you know, fast forward, he's got Ghislaine Maxwell, whose father, Robert Maxwell, you know, it's widely believed and written about that this man was an Israeli super spy, that he was a, you know, a hugely influential member of the intelligence community.

1:06:17Tim Dillon:He was a media mogul, but, you know, he was given high honors with his burial in Israel. I mean, Mount of Olives, it's all real stuff. So this story for a lot of people feels like, okay, the guy's Epstein's clearly a pedophile. He's a monster. How does a guy like that, who just gets a job at a high school, go to back-channeling between Vladimir Putin and the ex-Prime Minister of Israel? That's the question that a lot of people are having a problem with. Who made that happen? Who allowed that to happen? I'm sure Epstein was an enterprising person, but from your research, what is the story? How does he get to be in this position, in this rarefied air with the quote unquote Davos set.

1:07:08Yeah. Yeah. So he winds up at Bear Stearns out of that Dalton thing, like that Barr's dad also gets him that job at Bear Stearns, which was known as like, as I've researched it, more like kind of the trashiest investment bank, like the one that would kind of cut corners the most. He cut too many corners, gets edged out of that. But as he gets edged out, and this was in our most recent piece, he goes into business with this guy stan pottinger stan pottinger was a lawyer who is now known to be former nixon attorney uh deputy attorney general known to be at the center of iran contra he was setting up he was helping to do a lot of the moving of the money and setting up the structures for the the iran contra deal which should probably be called like iran israel angola contra like Right.

1:07:57Because people might not realize it kind of gets written out of it. The U.S. didn't send the weapons right to Iran because that would have been completely illegal. So they came up with this scheme where they're like, OK, Israel will send weapons to Iran, which is thinking back. It's like comical. Are you serious? Right. Israel's arming Iran. It's insane. So Israel's arming Iran and then we're replenishing their stocks. And then Shimon Peres, Ayyad Barak and the CIA are taking the loot from the profits from Iran and funding the Contras and then also funding these Angola rebels that the CIA was backing but that they weren't supposed to be backing because Jimmy Carter is saying we're not doing this anymore.

1:08:40And we're not doing all these terribly legal things with these terror groups. And so Epstein is in business with that guy. He's also associates with Adnan Khashoggi at the time. That's actually, coincidentally, Jamal Khashoggi's uncle, one of the biggest weapons dealers of the, like, 1980s and 90s. He was also a central banker for the Iran-Contra scandal. And the New York Times mentioned this in their early article. He also knew Douglas Lees, who was this British arms trafficker who also had ties to Iran-Contra. So Epstein is right in the middle of this, and this is a seminal kind of global intelligence scheme that now we all acknowledge.

1:09:27Like, oh, Ron Contra was a thing. Like, they did all these things, and actually they did more than they've acknowledged. But even what they've acknowledged is completely insane.

1:09:35Tim Dillon:And how does he end up in business with Stan Pottinger? Do you think it's that Jeffrey Epstein is just a morally questionable guy who doesn't mind blurring the lines of what is and isn't appropriate? is there some other connection do they know each other socially like what about Epstein makes him you know there's probably a lot of people at Bear Stearns what about Epstein makes him the guy I think that uh I think he was I think they knew each other socially that's that's my sense from the reporting so far and also Epstein was building a lot of connections at that time so he was going back and forth to London a lot.

1:10:13He'd met Khashoggi. He'd met Lise. He's really starting to be somebody.

1:10:16Tim Dillon:When did he meet Maxwell? Maxwell's like later in the 80s. Okay. Did he know her father? Knew of. I don't think they met. Actually, somebody like a Whitney Webb who knows this more in a more encyclopedic fashion. Right. But no, I don't think so because I think they met when, yeah. So they met when she came to New York and she came to New York because things were not going well for her over there because he had fallen off or got pushed off his yacht or whatever. Is it possible they met when he was going back and forth to London? Yeah, but I don't actually know the details of that early part. And when it comes to Wexner, this is something else we had reported on that weren't the first.

1:11:01People were like, wow, he does power of attorney for this random accountant? How on earth did this happen? Turns out that about a month before Wexner agreed to give Epstein power of attorney, the local police and the local attorney general, the state attorney general there in Ohio, were looking very closely at all of Wexner's organization as linked to this like mob connected assassination of an attorney who was linked to a Wexner company.

1:11:29Tim Dillon:Who's about to testify this attorney. Right. Yes. So the heat is on big time against Wexner. And so whether or not that had something to do with the decision, we don't know. But shortly after that, the very planes that the CIA was using to do Iran-Contra, Epstein then transitions from that to running Victoria's Secret lingerie and Abercrombie and Fitch stuff from Hong Kong and China. So like that's another connection where you're like, hold on. Jeffrey Epstein brought the CIA's like airline to Ohio to work for Wexner. And then when it's done, it goes to Angola where they were also shipping weapons.

1:12:10weapons.

1:12:11Tim Dillon:So when we're talking about the CIA, we're talking about obviously a very large agency with a lot of power. But as you rightly said, they are not usually the author of the story. They are working for very wealthy people, business interests, things like that. We're talking about the CIA. We're probably talking about a faction within the CIA or many factions. I don't know. You could maybe illustrate this where there's probably a ton of people that show up at Langley every day. They're typing, you know, these reports of their analysts and they're saying, well, did the guy in Pakistan in the cafe say, whatever, who are the people in the CIA working with Epsi?

1:12:52Tim Dillon:And I'm not saying you even know their names, but can you illustrate who these people are? Are they currently members of the CIA? Are they ex-CIA? Are they in other parts of the government, maybe the State Department, but actually are deep cover CIA agents? Who is helping him arrange air transport with this CIA front company, this airline, and with Les Wexner in your estimation? Right. There's this like amoeba-like overlap between the leadership of the CIA and the kind of ex-CIA types, you know, who are the former CIA directors, former CIA officials who are now doing, you know, consulting or they're running foundations that have enormous amounts of money.

1:13:41Like Wexner's Foundation, for instance, was one of the biggest funders of pro-Israel causes. Or Leon Black is, you know, donating enormous amounts of money. Ellison is the biggest donor to like friends of the IDF. So even if you're not directing a CIA budget, like if you can, you know, through your friends or through your board positions, you can still be moving kind of many millions of dollars. And so it's those people that are former CIA, but they're now in private practice, but they're still associated with the leadership of the CIA, plus then the people who are in the White House itself. So like the political appointees.

1:14:17and that's the kind of network that comes together to do it oftentimes you know lots of different operations at the same time and some of them almost at cross purposes and the ones we learn about are the ones that either blow up or or are like eventually successful um but you'll get people together like okay here's here's something i'd like to do in afghanistan oh which is another place they were spending the iran profits by the way um and so all right all right how are we going to fund this Afghan project. We got, obviously now we're not going to go to Congress. We're not going to like go to the public and say, here's an idea we have.

1:14:50Would you like to use your taxpayer money for it? No, we're going to like find our own sources of money, whether it's through, through black ops, through this like CIA, you know, hedge fund, you know, venture capital fund, or through our foundations that are, that are friendly with us. And then we're going to see if it sticks. And if it doesn't, we'll just deny it. And if it does, we'll deny it.

1:15:11Tim Dillon:So Epstein, in your mind, this is somebody who obviously establishes all these connections with arms traffickers and, you know, billionaires, people like Les Wexner. Then he begins to facilitate operations between former government officials, billionaires, arms traffickers. And he's in this world. and so is he a free agent? Meaning like, is this guy working at the behest of Israel? Is he working at the behest of a foreign government? This is something that I know and I've talked to some smart people. You talk to more people than I do. I talk to a lot of people that are mentally ill, but they're very interesting and it's hard to know what's what.

1:15:56Tim Dillon:And some of the mentally ill people actually sound really credible now. But there is this belief that Epstein was working for Israel or at least Israeli interests. And it dovetails with the Wexner of it all, the Maxwell connection. Do you think there's credibility to that belief that he's not just a completely free agent, that he is working on behalf of at least Israeli interests? Well, he also is politically aligned. So it's, you know, you wouldn't have to twist his arm to do it. But just from like a matter of fact of what he actually did, like we can we can count a number of different instances where he was doing things on behalf of either a Barack when he was minister of defense or the state of Israel.

1:16:50Like, you know, I think you've talked about this in your show before. Like we started we started simple with a little story about a security agreement they helped cut with Mongolia. It's like not a big, not the hugest deal in the world. Sure. But like it's to show like how this thing unfolds. He and Ehud Barak used their connections to get a meeting actually literally at Davos with the president of Mongolia. And Larry Summers was there. You know, you got to impress the guy, show him that you are friends with powerful people. Then they cut some weapons deals. And then from there, you get a security agreement.

1:17:27And same thing happening in other states as well. So you see like other countries perceiving him and perceiving Ehud Barak, who's a private citizen, but going back and forth in and out of government as representative of Israel, of the state of Israel. Funny thing is that Netanyahu would agree with that. In fact, he shared some of our reporting and it created this big scandal in Israel because our reporting connects Epstein more closely to the kind of opposition in Israel.

1:18:02Tim Dillon:The other party, right. Ehud Barak and what used to be the Labor Party and all that. Yeah, progressive. And so Netanyahu's like, aha, see, Epstein, there is an Israel connection, but it's my adversaries. Now, we'll have a story out next week about how he connected JPMorgan Chase and Netanyahu as part of this, what looks to be this, like, giant gas pipeline deal. So it wasn't just, he wasn't only on the opposition side. But yeah, so, but also Ehud Barak, yes, he's adversarial, like, you know, in the intramural league, you know, with Netanyahu. But he's still out there representing Israel's interests.

1:18:41Tim Dillon:Right. Right. But now, was he doing that first or foremost or was he, you know, was his greater allegiance to the CIA or something? We don't know, but we do know that he was carrying out missions on behalf and that served the state of Israel. Like that's that's not it's not a controversial statement. Now, what do you make of his relationship with Ghislaine Maxwell? You know, you've studied this, you've looked at this. She's looking for a pardon, I believe. She was moved to a much more, I guess, a low security or lower security prison. She's clearly angling to be pardoned. Right. What is the relationship with Ghislaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein from your reporting?

1:19:27Tim Dillon:Also, what do you think Ghislaine Maxwell may or may not have on the president of the United States? yeah i mean that they were tight for so long um uh that you know and i think there could be you know they knew melania for a long time as well like almost separately who um uh the like epstein and and glane how did they know her i think through john luke brunel some of the who killed himself yeah so he was a well john luke brunell died right he was a photographer he was a fat yeah fashion industry fashion industry guy tycoon trafficker and a sex trafficker and then how did he die he's dead dead right jail cell also yeah yeah yeah a lot of depression so he knew melania because she was a model that that's that's my memory yeah okay um um that and very early very early stages and and um and melania is very sensitive about this subject i think she sued she sued who michael wolf or she sued somebody okay yeah she sued michael wolf i believe yes yeah and and i think she sued like this another book that was saying that she and epstein dated or something so she sued over that um so i think the trump and melania are probably worried about what's in there as as well what do you think is in there i mean i know that you're a reporter so you don't usually um you know you know extrapolate or say things that you can't but if you could and i'm not asking you to make wild claims what would the what what is the fear originate from well so there did you see the email that came out just the other day from in the latest tranche um where it was there was one federal prosecutor writing to others where he said, just as a situational awareness or whatever the words are they use, looks like President Trump, and this was during the first term, flew on Epstein's airplane significantly more times than was previously known.

1:21:36And he was also on there twice with Maxwell while there were victims on the plane during the time that we're investigating her for sex trafficking. Right. Just a heads up, Like this is something y 'all might want to know because this is our boss, like at this particular moment. Like that right there in any normal world would be utterly devastating. Like so this is a convicted sex trafficker, Maxwell. Forget Epstein.

1:22:04Tim Dillon:She's not convicted at that time, though. Not yet, but was getting was getting investigated. Now we now we know she's a convicted sex trafficker. and there were victims on the plane while the president or the wasn't the president yet but while trump is on the plane and so you know at best at that point you can be like well i didn't see anything but everybody else who's ever been around these folks are like no this was like debaucherous disgusting stuff right there's no way you didn't see this and also we know that you know he did that whole thing where he's like yeah what did he say on howard stern he he bought Miss Teen USA so we could like creep into the locker room.

1:22:44Not an ideal statement for sure.

1:22:48Tim Dillon:So do you - Not secretly recorded either. Just like - Did you see the email from Mark Epstein saying my brother was about to name names and I think his murder was authorized by the president? I hadn't seen that, but - I don't know. You know, that's in there, I guess. I will - Yeah, I will - There's fake stuff in there, right? Right. I will say that it's hard to believe that with the amount of power and the number of friends that he had, that he felt like he had no way out. Like he considered himself to be a smooth operator, a very powerful person. He's got lots of damaging information about almost everybody in positions of power.

1:23:28Tim Dillon:Yeah. Like I've never seen – I don't know anybody who can get you meetings with Putin, Bill Clinton, Sarkozy, like Netanyahu. So you don't believe he killed himself? So it's just hard to see. Yeah, anything is possible, but like he was still fighting the charges, and there was no reason to think he was going to spend the rest of his life in prison given the power that he had. Right. What he could offer, but that's dangerous. But then, you know, it's also very hard to figure out how they could pull it off. But it's very hard for me to get my head to a place where he's ready to just end it. He's at Chelsea Clinton.

1:24:07Tim Dillon:I'm sorry, Ghislaine Maxwell is at Chelsea Clinton's wedding. Right. Bill Clinton, there's photos of him swimming in a pool with Ghislaine Maxwell. Yeah. Bill Clinton's not a rube. He knows that, he knows what's going on. Right? Yeah. I mean, he knows who Ghislaine Maxwell is and what they're up to. Um, why is, and I know the answer. I think I know the answer. Why is Bill Clinton so cool with hanging out with these people? Yeah. I think, yeah, you probably know the answer. It's like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we, so we, we have a problem here. I mean, this is truly a real problem, right?

1:24:49Tim Dillon:We, we, we have a problem if we're supposed to have a democratic society now let's say it's hijacked by money we all believe that hijacked by business interests we all believe that it's hijacked by uh oligarchs and we nobody's nobody who listens to this show is shocked to hear any of that what i do think people are shocked by surprised by disgusted by enraged at is how many of these people seem to be either pedophiles or very tolerant of pedophiles. What about the ruling class in your estimation makes that the case that they, if they're not partaking, they're hanging out with human traffickers and that's okay.

1:25:34I think if I had to put them on the couch, that the way they have lived their life suggests to them that there are no rules. And I, and I also think partly that once you are a billionaire or once you've been president of the United States or president of whatever country you're from there's probably a lot of boredom that creeps in right and you and i and i would imagine like they start getting their thrills by by pushing into the forbidden right like in a in a world where almost everything is available to them yeah with ease yeah with just and everyone is nice to them even the people that hate them right like that's gotta be unsettling well you

1:26:17Tim Dillon:You have Prince Andrew in the UK, who's, this has been a huge crisis for them, right? Because Prince Andrew has been named by multiple witnesses, very credibly and accused of very heinous behavior. The UK police, it was just reported, are now going to ask the FBI for information on some of these UK sex parties where somebody is alleging that he was abused as an underage boy by Ghislaine Maxwell and Prince Andrew. and like tortured, right? Like with electric shocks and everything like this in the UK. Now there's been, there was a scandal at the King Cora boys home in, I believe Ireland. You know, the Franklin scandal was another scandal in the 80s in Omaha, Nebraska, where Franklin Credit Union was laundering money on behalf of a human trafficker who was peddling children to wealthy and powerful people.

1:27:15Tim Dillon:is this something that has been going on forever and this is something that people are now just kind of waking up to the depravity of some of these people like you know yeah is this something that you think is you know do you have to go back all the people who said you know pedophile shape-shifting lizards run the world do you have to go back and apologize to them now yes i think you i think you do uh yeah i think this i think this level of power also like corrupts people's like souls and their minds yeah for sure which which is another argument for like actual democratic checks on their power on their own behalf too you don't like we're trying to prevent you from being shriveled up pedophile reptiles is there a quasi-religious element to this and i mean and I don't get into the woo-woo stuff all the time in the sense that like defiling and abusing innocence and innocent children and committing these horrible acts, this obsession with death, you see it with the skull and bone stuff.

1:28:29Tim Dillon:And I always thought, I always kind of wrote it off as kind of like childish and kind of trying to be edgy and whatever it is. But this obsession with death and these images of, you know, somewhat of the occult and the weird Bohemian Grove stuff where it's like we all stand there and everyone goes, well, it's just a frat party and it's a bunch of guys blown off steam and they're standing there and they're worshiping the Owl of Moloch and Moloch is a biblical symbol and it's talking about child sacrifice, truly. Now I'm not trying to sound like crazy and I know that you're a reporter and you're only going to talk about what you've sourced and what's out there, but like, is there some strange, you know, I mean, genuinely, like is there some strange belief system where these symbols keep popping up and these people have this weird upset tony podestas got weird art in his house it's just very odd i mean truly right it's like odd it's like i've i've been in a lot of wealthy people's homes and i've never seen a picture of a demon holding a baby or what this art is very strange um where the artist literally said i'm working through my own trauma with this art i don't know i'm not trying to draw all of these, you know, associations, but like, do you look at any of this stuff that you're reporting?

1:29:44Tim Dillon:Do you look at any of this stuff in a new light now where you go, oh yeah, they believe certain people are disposable, expendable. If you're a 14 year old girl that grows up on the wrong side of Palm beach, your life is meaningless to them and they can do anything they want to with impunity. Is there some overarching belief system that that fits into? I do think so. I think it is like one of the strongest arguments against inequality against this runaway like insane level of inequality that produces a class of people that is unique separate distinct from the rest of the population and it and it's got to mess with them it's got to it's got to get in their heads because they don't have to worry about the pedestrian concerns that people have of like making your mortgage and like, right.

1:30:36Just staying alive and, and like keeping your marriage healthy and like spending enough time with your kids and like this, the normal things. So then they have to like develop all of these pathologically like depraved activities to just keep them, to let themselves know, to let them know they're alive.

1:30:57Tim Dillon:And this has happened over generations. It's just a generational problem. And it's happened also for thousands of years. Like if it was just legalized with, you know, harems and all that, you know, over, you know, the long arc of history, the difference then was like, it was like, oh, that's what they do. How bad does this get for the Trump administration? I mean, they're saying that there's a lot more files that still have not been released. Looking at the material, do you think this gets much worse? Do you think this makes him a lame duck president? Do you think there are calls for impeachment or resignation?

1:31:29Tim Dillon:What do you think happens? I mean, I don't think we're looking at impeachment or – I think it's deeply damaging. I think – there are a lot of people who are like single-issue, no-pedophiles voters. That makes sense. Yes. Do you think Bill Clinton is going to be called to testify? And I think – yes, they're trying to get him to. And it would be – Steve Bannon went to jail for refusing a subpoena to testify to Congress. It'd be wild if they refuse. What do you make of that relationship? You know, people talk about Steve Bannon advising him and there's hours of - That's a very good question. Wow, a cat, it's a black cat who comes in.

1:32:11Tim Dillon:Watch out, it's Mossad. Uh-oh. That's what they do. All right, so Bannon and him, what's that deal? He, I think Bannon, I mean, obviously this is deep into people knowing what Epstein was all about. Yeah. I think Bannon understood like what an operator, like what an operator this guy was. Right. Like Bannon was, if you remember after 2017, he's trying to go to Europe and become this like right wing kingmaker and turn Europe into this, you know, right wing utopia. And he, he's often working with Epstein to Epstein's connecting him to all these guys. But then he's also giving him all this advice about like how he's going to uh you know his public image and and then he's like when ehud barack um wants to run for israeli prime minister again um he and epstein like bannon and epstein are talking about working like bannon wants to work for barack right like to support barack which is like wild also um yeah and he has successfully dodged a lot of the scrutiny around this i think and i think it's because there's no evidence that he was like partying with partying with the guy or involved in like that part of the depravity he was just kind of having some i don't know advising him to whatever yeah he's like because he i think he correctly understood how powerful a role he was playing in the world at that point um which is what so many people like deny as a as a reality do you think there's any chance that Jeffrey Epstein isn't dead no that that would be wild though that'd be a nice that'd be a nice ending to this I was told by someone I was told by someone very high up that it was that they didn't think this was the case but there's a small possibility that he's living on Wexner's estate in Ohio because it's so big just I would I would assume they'd uh kill him again if uh interesting like What's the point of letting him live?

1:34:14Tim Dillon:Right, right. The old double. Yeah, okay. Like, all right. It's a good point. Hey, we saved your life. We're taking you to Wexner's estate. Oh, and then we're killing you right here. Yeah, okay. That makes sense. Right. They don't want him. He's dangerous. They can't have him around. He knows too much. He certainly knows enormous. As a reporter, it's been interesting to get such a window into the type of machinations that are usually shielded from the public. Right. Yeah, there were so many things he could have shed light on. Do you think this scandal, and I think it does, but would you agree that this really sheds light on the way the world actually works in a way that maybe no other scandal has before?

1:34:59I think so. And I think when he was arrested in 2019, people got this hope that they were going to get that look at the way the world actually works. And then it was slammed shut. And now the window is kind of being forced back open a little bit. But I do think that's right. I think that this is the way that this Davos set operates globally. And the more we know about it, the better.

1:35:31Tim Dillon:But would you say that this is also the way the countries like Russia operate and China and all of these big, powerful countries? Yes, I think because we are because we in Western Europe are nominally democratic, we have a slightly greater need for people operating in the shadows. Right. Whereas I think that, you know, paradoxically, Russia and China can be a little bit more explicit about how they're going to manage their operations. Right. It's like, what are you going to say about it? Like, this is what we're doing. Right. Right. But I imagine that, you know, when he's back channeling or supposedly trying to back channel with Putin or back channeling, like, this is a guy who's, there's no one, he's working with everybody.

1:36:15Right. Yeah. He immediately got Barack this, like,$2 million deal with Viktor Vekselberg, big oligarch in Russia. Like, as soon as he leaves the minister of defense position, he's like, I need money. Like, I got your guy. Right. We're going to hook you up with Rinova. He's tight with Putin. And it's like, how, like, what? But you have to think about it. Like that alone is like he's tight with the Clintons. He's tight with Trump or falling out supposedly with Trump. And he's tight with Putin. Like what – how does that square with our understanding of what they tell us the world is?

1:36:49Tim Dillon:It's still tough and you've done such a brilliant job of reporting and I've read a lot of your stuff. It's still difficult for me to fully understand how that becomes the case, right? Right. It's still like when you say, oh, he's building connections to it. And he is clearly, but it's still difficult for me to understand how this happens in the sense of like, you know, he seems to, you know, how many people in history do you think are, have been like Jeffrey Epstein are currently like Jeffrey Epstein? Like how many Jeffrey Epsteins do we not know about? Right. Is he a one of one? Is he a one of a hundred?

1:37:32Tim Dillon:Is he who, how many people are, would you say with that deeply connected? And you know, how does that, how many people? It's a good question because it takes decades to build those connections up and to build that trust up to get both sides to believe that this person is going to actually make this thing happen. You probably saw the one email that to me – there were actually two that were striking to me where Putin wants to meet with Epstein at this conference. Yeah. He wants to meet him on the sidelines of a conference. And Epstein tells Putin's aide, no, you know, if Putin wants to meet, like, it's got to be at his palace.

1:38:15And, like, we need to set a significant amount of time so that we can really hash things out. Right. I'm not doing, like, a little brief catch-up.

1:38:22Tim Dillon:Right. At this conference. And meanwhile, he set up Barack, and I think it was Sarkozy, not Macron, and a banker for dinner in Paris. And he just blows it off. Epstein's supposed to be there. he's like, I'm not feeling well. God only knows what he was doing instead that night. Right. But he's just blowing off presidents around the world. So how many people in the world are doing that? It can't be that. Didn't Nicholas Sarkozy have his own sex scandal or am I completely wrong? Yeah. And he's in prison right now for something.

1:38:59Tim Dillon:I mean, so it's just, again, it's like this, he's this figure that is, you know, obviously he's a pedophile. He's a monster. He's trafficking women. What is this island? You know, he's got this strange island. He's got Phoenician symbols all over. It's like an odd. what is this what role does this island play getting high-level scientists people in the tech community to this island what is this guy you know what is he doing is he is that island do you think it's like a pleasure island where these billionaires are going and they're you know meeting underage people what is he doing with his island yeah yeah i mean he's definitely doing like what we think he's doing.

1:39:49There's lots and lots of evidence of that. And I think it's a way to set yourself apart in that billionaire class. It's like, you gotta have an island. You gotta have jets, you gotta have a helicopter, you gotta have an island. The ranch in New Mexico, I think is like, serves some of the same purpose. But that's a little bit more pedestrian, like having your own island. He also, as we found in a lot of his correspondence, was figuring out these tax loopholes and tax incentives for these island-based biopharmaceutical companies. You could call something a biomedical company, and then all of a sudden you can move billions of dollars through it, and then it's completely laundered.

1:40:34And people have not said, oh, he's not a real accountant. Because he wasn't a real accountant. He was willing, I think, to break the law in a way that other accountants wouldn't. So he was actually able to find genuinely innovative, quote-unquote, innovative solutions for these billionaires to be like, hey, the U.S. Virgin Islands, you can move your money right here. And I know people and I can shelter it here. And then all of a sudden now it's not taxable. And you also get these incentives. And so he's constantly blending. And as his survivors will tell you, he was like often on the phone while he's like getting these, you know, starting with the massages and moving into the abuse.

1:41:17So like people are often like, how did he have time to like be a part, such a global operator when he was also like on a near daily basis abusing girls? It's like, well, he was literally doing them at the same time.

1:41:30Tim Dillon:Right. And you read his emails, if you've looked at some of those, there's not a single sentence that doesn't have, isn't shot through with typos and grammatical mistakes. Right. Like you can imagine him just like engaged in abuse and just like firing off emails to like prime ministers and arranging these meetings. What do you think this – how does this shape the political reality going forward of the U.S.-Israel relationship? Does it have no impact at all? Is it – is there a slight impact? Is there no impact? Because that was one of the questions. Obviously, people are very unhappy about what Israel's done in Gaza, and people are very unhappy about people like Miriam Adelson and whatever.

1:42:18Tim Dillon:Do you think there's political, diplomatic fallout from this tranche of documents that's going to come out where people go, you know, this is damaging the U.S.-Israel relationship, or do you think it won't? I mean, I think so because I think eventually the rest of the press is going to have to start reporting on the reality of it because it'll end up being similar to the lab leak question, actually, where you still, maybe to this day, do not have mainstream media approval for the idea that COVID leaked out of the lab in Wuhan. Yet if you do a survey of the American public, something like 80 % I think at this point, maybe higher, are like, yeah, it came out of a lab.

1:43:13And so even if, I think you could see the same shift here. Like even if the mainstream media refuses to touch any of the like public information, public documents and correspondence that connect him to working on behalf of Israel, a year or two from now, you poll the public, you know, was he working on behalf of Israeli interests? I think you'll get like a 70-80 % doesn't mean it was solely working on behalf of Israeli interests but yeah so I think that they won't be able to hold that back and so it coming in the context of both the genocide and also this like insistence that you're not allowed to criticize the genocide is just going to add up to be just too much I don't know what what political party is going to be unapologetically pro-Israel going forward.

1:44:04Neither of them really.

1:44:05Tim Dillon:Yeah. It doesn't feel like it'll be a popular position. Two more questions, and I appreciate you doing this. Having done all the reporting you've done on Epstein, on his connections, on the extent to which he was involved in global politics, and the way that that network of people, you talked about X intelligence, X, you know, leaders of countries. Do you feel at a certain point, and again, this is asking you to kind of pontificate that that system is going, there's going to be a threat to that system. And that is that because we have more technology, we have a new media landscape, you can't control the narrative as much as you could, is there going to be a threat to that system?

1:45:07Tim Dillon:Or, and I would be the cynic and say not really because they don't really care. Like that's my thing. My thing is they don't care. They know that we know. We know that they know that we know. It doesn't seem to matter to them. Do you think it matters to them that we can get millions of people to watch this or listen to this or Rogan can get, do they care at all or not really? I think it bothers them a little bit because anything that they can't control unsettles them. I think that you're right that they still have things firmly under control, but they don't have everything under control. And so I think that bothers them.

1:45:47And I think, and it's no secret, I'm not a huge fan of Donald Trump, but I think a lot of the public thought that Donald Trump was actually gonna be a threat to this system. Well, I think it's been extremely demoralizing to people to see the opposite come about, to see him be an obstacle.

1:46:05Tim Dillon:What do you make of J.D. Vance out of curiosity? Well, since he's not connected to this, he could at least make hay out of it. Right. But I think he's probably boxed in because he can't get ahead of Trump on this. So he's kind of stuck as well. He can speak in generalities, and now he's probably unleashed a little bit now that Trump has been pressured into releasing the files. But before that, he had to walk this fine line where he wants transparency, but he can't contradict his boss either. What do you think? Yeah, how do you think he's handled this? Well, I think he's in this interesting position, right?

1:46:42Tim Dillon:Because he's got to have loyalty to Trump. But I also think that he's seeing his own political aspirations get negatively impacted by this. right? I mean, that's obvious. So I don't really know, but it seems to me that he's in a weirdly untenable position because Trump's not running again and Trump's old and Trump's made his money. I mean, and I don't know, you know, I don't know what exactly, how far he'll, I don't know how damaging this gets. That's the real question, right? How bad does it get for the White House? And then is JD willing to go, hey, not me. You know, final thing. There have been lots and lots and lots of, there's been lots of speculation about two events.

1:47:33Tim Dillon:Now, I don't know how much you've looked into any of these events. One was the attempted assassination on Donald Trump. The second is the assassination of Charlie Kirk. These have inspired lots of discussion across multiple platforms with many high-level people weighing in, and they've caused massive problems within the conservative movement. and even to a lesser extent, but even on the other side, you have, I think, certain fissures over issues like this where you have people that are accused of conspiracy mongering and doing it for profit and you have people that are like, well, no, I'm going to accept the official narrative of the FBI, which is now being run by cash Patel.

1:48:33Tim Dillon:And, and I think you, you, you find a lot of people somewhere. Like I find myself in the middle of not being an investigative journalist, but also having no faith in cash Patel and the FBI on those two issues. Where would you put yourself? And I've, I've actually found it really interesting that the, the, in the two cases, like the one, the Charlie Kirk one to me does actually seem pretty straightforward. The FBI bungled it from start to finish. Right. And some of it is like weird, but it does seem like to me, like what looks like to have happened, like mostly to me is what happened. Whereas on the Butler one with Trump, that is a complete mystery.

1:49:18Like it's a ghost of a person who doesn't exist on social media for the most part nicks the guy's ear and climbs up there casually from 150 yards out. And that one is the one that was just kind of moved. Everyone's kind of moved on from it. But and instead focuses on the Kirk one. And that part to me is kind of an interesting, that's not how I would have expected them to take out. And Trump never really brings it up. Yeah, and because I guess they never were able to like, if it would have been a liberal kid, then, or even if it had been a right-wing kid, like you need something. There was nothing to grab onto.

1:50:01Tim Dillon:Does Israel bomb Iran before the midterms? They certainly want to. Right. Um, they're, they're, yeah, they're, they're agitating. Netanyahu will be here on Monday for what his sixth trip. What do they have on what, why is the president so docile when it comes to Benjamin Netanyahu? I don't know. He doesn't seem to like, like him interpersonally. Like when you look at their body language and yet, and it's, it's, it's, it's truly amazing. Um, uh, I actually, I saw your clip about, uh, him and Mary Maddelson, which was still delightful. It is lovely. I mean, they are friends. Here's the thing with him and Miriam.

1:50:40Tim Dillon:They're just buds. You can tell they, you can tell he actually likes, there's very few people you can tell Donald Trump actually likes. I think he really likes Miriam Adelson. I think, I think he's also, I think he's also amused by her and by her late husband's, like obsession with Israel. He's always, he always like negs them about it. Like, man, you really love Israel. That's like the only thing you care about. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it just seems very interesting to me that he's such a, you know, you know, like, you know, wildly unpredictable guy on every single issue except this one issue. Like, he's been for and against things.

1:51:23Tim Dillon:He'll go, we're doing this. We're not going to do it. I like this person. I don't like this person. He gets in feuds quickly. He fires people. But he loves Miriam Adelson. I mean, he's got 250 million reasons and counting. That's right. Yes. His whole selling point was that wasn't who he was. And it's like, we can't even get that. Is anyone going to be the president when that's not who they are? I don't know if it's, if like, right. I guess the whole problem with, you know, he was so over leveraged and struggling in 2016. Like he wasn't an actual billionaire. so we need we need some actual billionaires i guess if we're gonna um that's what you've heard it here first ryan grimm's more billionaire leaders more billionaires well listen enjoy the holiday one place we can put bars around the place happy new year where can people follow your work you're doing some of the best reporting right now in the country on this that's yeah very kind of you too yeah we're at drop we're at dropsitenews.com and then um you know monday through Fridays where we're putting up shows at breaking points.

1:52:31Um, but yeah, we're, we're reader, reader funded. So let me put in a plug reader funded over at drop site. Um, so if you can, everything is free, but if you can become a subscriber or a donor, it's a nonprofit. Um, Hey, you still have a few days to get your charitable contributions in.

1:52:46Tim Dillon:Get your charitable, get your contributions in. I wish I could subscribe. I've given my yearly charitable contribution to Israel in the form of my agent. And that's where my money will go. Ryan, thank you again for making time to do this on a holiday weekend. I appreciate it. Yeah, it was my pleasure. All right. Thank you so much. Saturday, September 26th, two of combat sports' most dangerous strikers collide. Bare Knuckle. Liverpool's own Darren the Gorilla Till goes to war with Cuban powerhouse Yoel Soldier of God Romero. Plus, the Bare Knuckle Middleweight Championship of the World is on the line.

1:53:22Tim Dillon:when the reigning champ Dave the Redneck Mundell defends against undefeated British challenger Jack the Meek Cleaver Colon. BKFC 94, Till vs. Romero. Watch it live only on DAZN. Sign up now at DAZN.com. Andy and Anna here from your new favourite podcast, No Such Thing as a Fish. Yes, we are two of the four hosts of the podcast that stuffs fascinating, amazing, weird, mad facts into your ears on a weekly basis. You got any good facts, Andy? Yes, how about this one? Anteaters have evolved on 12 separate occasions. Wow. Mysterious, wonderful. The world really wants them to exist. What about this one?

1:54:05Tim Dillon:When Ronald Reagan left office, he left a note on the White House lawn for the squirrels warning them to beware of George Bush's dogs. So there you go. If you like fascinating facts and much more besides, we are No Such Thing As A Fish.

1:54:22Andy and Anna here from your new favourite podcast, No Such Thing As A Fish.

1:54:27Tim Dillon:Yes, we are two of the four hosts of the podcast that stuffs fascinating, amazing, weird, mad facts into your ears on a weekly basis. You got any good facts, Andy? Yes, how about this one? Anteaters have evolved on 12 separate occasions. Wow. Mysterious, wonderful. The world really wants them to exist. What about this one? When Ronald Reagan left office, he left a note on the White House lawn for the squirrels, warning them to beware of George Bush's dogs. So there you go. If you like fascinating facts and much more besides, we are No Such Thing As A Fish.