#666: In Case You Missed It: March 2023 Recap of "The Tim Ferriss Show"

22:27Next up, David Deutsch,

22:48And as an aside, one beautiful output of that that I saw in one of your books was that if you were to look at, there's lots of ways to be wrong, but there's only a few ways to be right, or there are certainly less ways to be right than there are to be wrong. And because the ways that are right are likely to be copied, if you were able to peek at the entire multiverse at once, you would see truth as a thing that is repeated across the multiverse. So I took that in a fanciful way as a meaning of life, which is I want to be the version of myself that is successful in the most instances of the multiverse, because that contains the most truth.

23:22We want to be multiversal crystals. Yes, the closer you are to the truth, the more of you that exists in the multiverse in a very odd way. So there's your practical application of multiverse theory combined with epistemology. But out of this also came all kinds of other interesting outputs. I really encourage people to read The Beginning of Infinity, at least the first three chapters, which I think are an easy read before you even get into the physics part, where you talk about wealth and resources. Can you give us your definition of wealth? And then as a follow-up to that, I think naturally comes, are we running out of resources?

23:58Wealth is not a number. I don't think it can be characterized very well by a number. It is a set. The set of all transformations that you are capable of bringing about, that is your wealth. And obviously, if optimism is true, then there's no limit to wealth. and at any one time there is a rough correlation between the wealth that is the set of all transformations that you could bring about and other things that aren't very fundamental like the amount of money you have or the amount of energy you control or the amount of land you control or the amount of power you have and so on but those are not fundamental they are all outgrown eventually by the growth of knowledge.

24:51So at the moment, if you have a lot of gold, you can bring things about by exchanging the gold for knowledge that other people have. If you want a painting of yourself, you can hire a painter to make the painting of yourself, even if you couldn't. But in the long run, gold won't do that because in the long run, some other knowledge that is growing will be able to get gold from an asteroid and then gold will become cheaper and cheaper and cheaper and artists will no longer accept gold ultimately what they will accept and it's also true today because the economy is a rather imperfect way of accounting for knowledge creation.

25:44It's true that it's rather imperfect. So people can acquire money and power and so on, sometimes without creating much knowledge. But again, in the long run, that is not true. So in the long run, the only thing you could pay the artist with would be more knowledge, kind of knowledge that he's not good at creating. And I love how deep this explanation is. I love the reach of it because it also applies at the civilizational level. As a civilization figures out how to make more and more transformations, everybody gets wealthier. Wealth is a byproduct of knowledge. And because we can do anything and figure anything that's not constrained by the laws of physics, that wealth is unlimited, just like knowledge is unlimited.

26:29and even things that before were not considered wealth, we can transform into sources of wealth through new knowledge. So this idea has tremendous reach, much deeper than I think even just the first definition would imply if one thinks it through. And as somebody who personally spent a lot of time thinking through wealth creation, it was staggering to me how good of a definition this was to the point where I've replaced my previous definitions with this one. Yeah, that's nice to hear, yeah. When you have an idea, let's say you're a geologist or something, you have an idea about geology, suddenly your idea has converted some rocks into a resource.

27:10And you haven't even touched it yet. The rock has been converted into a resource without anyone ever touching it. Just the idea in the mind of somebody has converted the rock into a resource. I mean, I've just mentioned asteroids. Somebody thought of mining asteroids. Nobody's mined an asteroid yet, but they have already made asteroids more valuable just by thinking of that. Yeah, it's like a solar power is basically a set of ideas that converts sunlight into an energy resource for it that's usable by humans. Before, it was only usable by plants through photosynthesis. The discovery of fire turned wood into a resource.

27:46Nuclear fission turned uranium into a resource. And so resources are things that we create through knowledge rather than some finite, static, fixed set of things that we burn through and abuse and use up. Yes. And before anyone had those ideas, the objects, the physical objects in question, obeyed the hierarchy rule. But as soon as you have that knowledge, it was the other way around. The hierarchy rule, people turn everything the other way around. Instead of massive energetic things dominating less massive, less energetic things, it's things with more meaning that dominate things with less meaning.

28:29Things with more knowledge dominate things with less knowledge, or hopefully no knowledge, because we don't want to dominate people.

28:42next up michael mobison head of consilient research on counterpoint global at morgan stanley investment management

28:54now in addition to the wisdom of crowds there are a number of books that came up in the process of doing research for this conversation that you have mentioned and i don't mean to imply that we need to spend a ton of time on all of these, but I would love to at least get your take on two that have popped up. And there may be one or two more, but I'll mention two. One is Against the Gods, The Remarkable Story of Risk. And this came to mind because you just mentioned risk in the context of Switzerland. And the other is Complexity by Mitchell Waldrop, if I'm getting that pronunciation right. Why are either or both of these books meaningful or must-reads or important in any way?

29:42So let's start with Against the Gods. It's written by Peter Bernstein, who was a brilliant economist and historian. And it is the history of human understanding of risk. So it's a fascinating thing. Now, I'll just say that, broadly speaking, I think understanding the history of ideas is incredibly valuable in pedagogy, generally speaking, right? So if I'm talking about an idea or I'm using an idea today, I think it's very helpful to understand where it came from, who were the propagators, what were their blind spots, where did they take a turn one direction where they could have gone a different direction and so forth.

30:19And so Bernstein just brilliantly lays this out in Against the Gods, and he was a wonderful writer. It's a very interesting book. By the way, he also wrote a book called Capital Ideas, which basically does the same thing for the history of finance. So Peter Bernstein, that is money. And if anybody's interested in the idea of how we understand risk, and this goes back to the Bernoullis in the 1700s up to relatively modern times, it's a fabulous book. I'll give one other backup, one little step on this, which is it's a book I almost never talk about. But one day when I was a food analyst, I was visiting a money management firm.

30:53It was actually the state of Michigan, the pension fund state of Michigan. And I was in the waiting room, literally waiting for my meeting. They had a bunch of books, and I just strolled over there. And I picked up a book called Bionomics by a guy named Michael Rothschild. I don't think anybody's – I mean, I think it's a somewhat obscure book. But as the name would indicate – and this book was written, I think, originally in 1990. As the name would indicate, what he was saying was the way to understand economics is really through biology. and you know starting really in the late 1800s but into the early 20th century economics became very mathematized and in fact there's a wonderful book called more heat than light by a professor named phil marosky which documents how economists literally and i mean literally mapped over equations from newtonian physics to basically give economics street cred so economics and finance went sort of this mathematical slash physics envy route versus going more biological.

31:53And, you know, I think that in retrospect, you could sort of say that biological way would have been a very logical way to go or as logical, albeit not as mathematically straightforward or tractable. So I've read this book, Bionomics, and I'm like, this is like so cool. And the guy sort of opens the book by saying, hey, you can't really understand economies unless you understand sort of evolution and so forth. So I was very drawn to all that. So that's the backdrop. I'm like sort of primed i'm thinking about this idea and then along comes waldrop's book complexity and this is really the story of the founding of the santa fe institute and by way of background these two was founded in 1984 by a number of scientists who felt and very prominent scientists many nobel prize winners who felt that academia had become too siloed right so the physicists hung out with the physicists and economists with the economists and the chemists with the chemist but again most the interesting problems in the world were really at intersections of these disciplines.

32:48And gee, wouldn't it be awesome if we got these different scientists to hang out and talk to one another? And so this is how this thing got going in some of the early conferences. For example, one of them was the economy is a complex adaptive system, right? So the idea of economics being in there early on was early days. And so why this book is so, I think, still to this day kind of exhilarating is because you read about these scientists and how they were coming up with ideas that were far from the mainstream. And when we look back on them now, many of them have become much more mainstream ideas, but it's just, it was super cool.

33:24And so one of the main protagonists, I think the book does open with a story, is Brian Arthur, who's an economist now. And, you know, Brian was promoting this idea of increasing returns. Now, if you've taken economics, microeconomics at any point, you learn about decreasing returns, right? So if Tim's lemonade stands super profitable, Michael will open up and let him stand right next door, charge slightly lower prices, and so you'll become less profitable, and then you'll have to match my prices and so forth, and we'll compete our way down to less profitability, so decreasing returns. And Brian pointed out that under certain circumstances, there were these increasing returns.

33:57There were sort of these winner-take-all effects. This is now, again, he was writing about this in the 80s and 90s, completely heretical. And by the way, like basically the mainstream economists wanted nothing to do with it. Waldrop, and I think in a very engaging way, describes how all these ideas developed. And so if you said at the Santa Fe Institute, is there a unifying theme? It would be sort of this idea of a complex, adapting, evolving system is a way of thinking about it. So those would be my answers. Those are two wonderful things. And, you know, my oldest son, before he went off to college, he did a gap year.

34:28and I thought, you know, like what would be a list of books that would be really great for him to read and internalize? And, you know, I think we had a list of 15 or 20 books, but these were both on that list because I just think it's super cool to understand the history of ideas. And by the way, as a teacher, if you're ever teaching something, I think it's just super helpful to know where it came from. Like, what is the genesis of this? By the way, there are a couple of things that I'm actually trying to track down now. These are specific finance type of things. And I'm having a hard time finding the first person to come up with it.

34:57So it's kind of cool, right, to sort of go on these little wild goose chases.

35:04Last but not least, performance coach, Dr. Kelly Starrett, author of the new book, Built to Move, the 10 Essential Habits to Help You Move Freely and Live Fully, co-written with Juliet Starrett.

35:23800g i assume that doesn't mean 800 000 800 grams 800 grams so food can be a little sensitive for people when we talk about food with people and diets five percent it's per performance I'm a cyclist runner, right? I want to build muscle. And the rest of it tends to be around how do I change my body composition? So we'll start with that assumption. Now, here is the non-trigger trigger warning. If you're a vegan, carnivore, paleo, vegetarian, I'm still talking to you, okay? It doesn't matter what you eat. we found that when i back up didn't want to ever get near nutrition for all the reasons that it's complicated it's highly individualized it's cultural people have strong ideologies around it and real personal identities around it super cool i think nutrition for a lot of people has become um almost like entertainment it's like a hobby or religion well sure but if we get down to you're working with me and i'm worried about your tissue recovery or tissue health or you're injured because again a lot of times it comes through or we're trying to keep lean body mass on you because you're aging and it turns out maybe fat is a problem but keeping your lean body mass is a bigger problem.

36:59When we actually get into how much protein are you eating, people oftentimes do not get enough protein. And so notice that I'm like, oh, you want to eat raw bear steak? You knock yourself out. You want to do plant pea cricket protein? You knock yourself out. I don't care. But let's see if we can establish what a reasonable amount of that is. And again, what I really like in my life is getting something for nothing. And something for nothing in this situation is that we found that when people started eating more protein, guess what happened? They got fuller. So 800 grams of protein a day? No. Yes.

37:36That would be great. For the low, low price of$69.95 per month with a free dialysis machine for the first year. All you need to do. That's right. So we found that a reasonable amount of protein was somewhere between 0.7 and 0.8 and one gram per pound body weight. That's a reasonable amount. That's not crazy. We're not going to shock load you. And remember, a lot of times, if you're trying to change your body composition or heal or grow, you need to make sure you have enough protein on board. And so one of the things that we found was this was an easy way of controlling satiety and actually making sure that people had on board what they needed to recover and to heal.

38:17And what I'll ask you is if you count the protein that your growing children are eating, you might be shocked to discover they're actually in some pretty low to moderate protein diets because it's hard to get kids to eat those things. Okay, protein aside. Again, however you want to do that is fine with me. If a vegetarian, it may be harder to hit your protein minimums. But one of the things that we saw a lot was our vegetarian friends would come in with these little tendinopathies and some of these issues. And when we asked them about the whole sort of pantheon of potential behaviors that went along with that, we found that they were really under protein.

38:58And the international track and field folks, everyone, sports, they really have this one gram. It hovers around one gram per pound body weight. It really ends up being a very reasonable number that a lot of people agree on. Okay. Which is still a lot more than most people concern. Great. So guess what? Now you have a vital sign. And if you didn't nail it today, you'll nail it tomorrow. So where's the 800 coming? Okay. So this is the magic. We have seen a dearth of fruits and vegetables eating. And this 800 grams comes from our friend, EC Sienkowski. And EC came up with this idea that, hey, what if instead of taking things out of your diet, we expanded your diet?

39:39What if I said, Tim, you want to change your body composition? I'm going to have to have you eat a lot more. You'd be like, well, sign me up. So 800 grams is 800 grams of fruits and vegetables. And it can be, they can be frozen. They can be fresh. They can be cooked. It doesn't matter. So four big apples is 800 grams, right? So it's not as crazy as it sounds. It's not as crazy as it sounds. A banana is about 100 grams. You can think of it that way. So what I'm asking you to do is eat fruits and vegetables. And what we find is people don't really eat fruits and vegetables. They talk about it a lot, and they have a little iceberg lettuce salad.

40:14We've struggled to eat vegetables here in Japan. Actually, not only have we struggled, but we went to a sushi restaurant where one of our guides, who's fantastic, native Japanese, and I was overhearing, and someone's like, why are you laughing so hard, Tim? And I was like, well, and then the guide explained, she said, well, I just asked, where can we get some vegetables? What are your vegetable options? Do you have vegetables? And they're like, no. It says sushi on the door. Yeah. What's the question? It's not a vegetable restaurant. This is a sushi restaurant. So we're agnostic about how you do that.

40:54You're like, I'm a rutabaga guy. Cool. You want to get 800 grams of rutabaga? But buried in there are these things called micronutrients, vitamins and minerals. Yeah. And what also buried in there is crucial is this thing called fiber, which most people don't get a lot of. And one of the things we've seen when we have gone into this diet culture where we restrict and take out, it's really not very sustainable. And I have two daughters, full disclosure, one who haven't always been the best eaters. But if I pack them full of strawberries and apples and whatever they want to eat, fruits and vegetables wise, again, fruits or vegetables.

41:32If you're like, I don't eat vegetables, I'm like, down, cool. Just you do you. You do fruits. That's fine. We found that there's a lot less room for crap in our diet. Yeah. And all of the research is that 800 grams is about this magic number where a lot of really good things happen to you from a healthy perspective. Fiber, micronutrients. Should you eat the rainbow? Sounds great. Let's eat the rainbow. I try to get six to eight kinds of fruits and vegetables every day. It's kind of a game. And guess what? Tomorrow? Six to eight servings. It's just like different types. Oh, types. Yeah. So a grape is one.

42:04Then I had some spinach. And trying to eat this diversity. I think it was Kate Shanahan of Deep Nutrition who wrote that we used to eat roughly somewhere between 40 and 50 different kinds of fruits and vegetables every year. Typical person in America. And now it's like three or four. Like we just don't eat a lot of fruits and vegetables. and those two things we find that we have people focus on getting more protein getting more fruits and vegetables there's just not a lot of extra room for keto donuts you know i mean like you're you're like holy crap i'm really like guess what everyone white potatoes it's a vegetable to fried potato not a vegetable right we should probably do you have been advocating for these very dangerous things called beans for a long time oh boy internet you're gonna give me a brian mackenzie ted talk on beans no beans count towards your grams i'm like how cool redemption you're eating a thing that's a plant full of plant matter and fiber that's so great let's eat more beans right and like i think yes of course if you're a person who's like beans cause me anxiety not trying to be beanist here but if that's you you're excused from eating beans and that's what I want to give people permission is saying, hey, I understand you don't like these things.

43:22What else can we open up to? 800 grams of kiwi fruit. Do it. Do it. Do it. And you know what we found is that if you are like, I'm only going to do this with apples, you'll do that for four or five days and you're like, what else is that? Kiwis are super cool. Kiwi every day is a little bit much. And again, we're looking at through this lens, this built to move lens of durability. If we keep lean muscle mass on you and get fiber and micronutrients in you, you're probably going to feel better and do better long haul. And maybe we have all the things your tissues are going to need to repair and heal.

44:01And sometimes that is one of our friends described as supply chain economics of your tissues. There's a reason here in Japan they eat everything. All the collagen, all the skin, all the bones, everything, broth. Those things have been part of our diet for a long time. Yeah, totally. So a few thoughts for folks also on top of that. So with getting an increased volume of vegetables, fruits, it may make sense if you have the savings to do so and the cash flow. Look at a list called Dirty Dozen. there are certain plants that have more pesticide exposure in the United States. And so you can use that to selectively either avoid certain things or consider selectively buying certified organic so that you're not dealing with...

44:59Like a strawberry, my understanding is like a sponge. So maybe spend your money on better strawberries. Yeah. Or like stick with bananas. Don't eat the skins. That's right. Less skin. You're asking, it's not great. But you'll notice there, it's easy to demonize meat, for example. And I didn't even say eat organic meat. I just said, whatever you can afford, whatever works in your socioeconomic system, is going to be a better health outcome than not getting enough protein and fruits and mushrooms.

45:30And now, here are the bios for all the guests. I am thrilled to have Andrew Huberman here with me. so great to have you here in person andrew so andrew huberman who is this andrew huberman phd on twitter at huberman lab is a neuroscientist and tenured professor in the department of neurobiology at stanford university's school of medicine he has made numerous important contributions to the fields of brain development brain function and neural plasticity work from the huberman laboratory at stanford medicine has been consistently published in top journals including nature science and cell for those who don't know that's like having a sweep at the oscars but back to the bio andrew is the host of the podcast huberman lab which is often ranked as one of the top five podcasts in the world by both apple and spotify the show aims to help viewers and listeners improve their health with science and science-based tools new episodes air every monday on youtube and all podcast platforms you can find all things andrew at hubermanlab.com on youtube that is huberman lab instagram huberman lab and also on twitter as mentioned at huberman lab

46:38Hello, boys and girls, ladies and germs. This is Tim Ferriss. Welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferriss Show, where it is my job to interview world-class performers, to deconstruct how they do what they do, lessons learned, tools, et cetera, that you can apply to your own lives. Nowhere is this more true than in this episode where I interview my friend and doctor, Peter Atiyah, MD. You can find him on Twitter at Peter Atiyah, MD. He is the founder of Early Medical, a medical practice that applies the principles of Medicine 3.0 to patients with the goal of lengthening their lifespan and simultaneously improving their health span.

47:14He is the host of The Drive, one of the most popular podcasts covering the topics of health and medicine. Dr. Atiyah received his medical degree from the Stanford University School of Medicine and trained for five years at the Johns Hopkins Hospital in General Surgery, where he was the recipient of several prestigious awards, including resident of the year. He spent two years at the National Institutes of Health as a surgical oncology fellow at the National Cancer Institute, where his research focused on immune-based therapies for melanoma. His new book is Outlive, subtitled The Science and Art of Longevity.

47:47And on the book page for Outlive, you can find quotes from Stephen Levitt, who is the best-selling author of Freakonomics, from Esther Perel, who no doubt many of you will know, New York Times bestselling author, psychotherapist, and podcast host of Where Should We Begin, Andrew Huberman, who many of you will know also, Hugh Jackman, and others. This is an incredible book. It's taken a long time for Peter to put together, and I'm very excited to have him on the show to discuss not just the book, but everything that went into the book, many different approaches and frameworks you can apply to navigating and improving your own health and health span.

48:26You can find him online. I'll give just a few on Instagram at Peter Atiyamd. That's Peter A-T-T-I-A-M-D. And on the website, PeterAtiyamd.com, you can find links to the book and many other things. And the practice website is earlymedical.com.

48:49My guest today, I would say is not only a world-class performer, but also one who studies world-class performers, advises world-class performers. Matt Moshari, you can find him on Twitter at Matt Moshari, M-O-C-H-A-R-Y, coaches the heads of top Silicon Valley tech investment firms and companies on how to be the best leaders and build the best organizations possible. There are some names you might recognize, including my friend Naval Ravikant, as well as Brian Armstrong of Coinbase, Sam Altman, perhaps best associated or most associated with open AI these days. Well done, Sam. And many, many others.

49:27His philosophy and method are captured in both the Moshari coaching methodology, which is available as a free Google doc, and in his book, The Great CEO Within, which is available on Amazon and also online as a free Google Doc. We will link to all of those in the show notes at tim.blog.com. And you can also find, I imagine, all of them, I believe, under the top right curriculum at mosharimethod.com. As a former founder, CEO, and investor, Matt knows firsthand the challenges of those roles, as well as solutions to the most commonly encountered problems. His coaching is not questions only. There is real guidance.

50:02Matt specializes in helping CEOs and their companies or investment firms transition from freewheeling startups to dominant enterprises.

50:14First, let me say that one of the secret agendas, not so secret, but I'm not sure I've stated it explicitly of this podcast is to capture living legends, people who have so much to offer that I want to capture their lessons for posterity. So hopefully millions can learn from them for decades and decades. That is the intention with many of these conversations. And this conversation, I should stress from the beginning, is not for professional philosophers nor for physicists. It doesn't require any hard scientific training. This is for curious people who want to learn to think more clearly, learn more effectively, and perhaps just live more optimistically.

50:54And I want to introduce first my co-host, who is really the lead driver. He is the host of this conversation. And I do this when I think it will be most helpful for the listener. And I've done it many times on this podcast. Naval Ravikant, close friend. You can find him on Twitter at Naval, N-A-V-A-L. He is the co-founder of AirChat and AngelList. He's invested in more than 100 companies, including many mega successes, including Twitter, Uber, Notion, Open Door Postmates, and Wish. You can see his latest musings on AirChat and subscribe to Naval, his podcast on wealth and happiness on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

51:32You can also find his blog at nav.al. For more conversations with Naval, you can check out my wildly popular interview with him from 2015, which was nominated for podcast of the year. You can learn more about AirChat and Naval and interact certainly at getairchat.com slash Naval. The guest today is David Deutsch. You can find him on Twitter at David Deutsch, O-X-F, last name is spelled D-E-U-T-S-C-H. David is a visiting professor of physics at the Center for Quantum Computation, a part of the Clarendon Laboratory at Oxford University, and an honorary fellow of Wolfson College, Oxford. He works on fundamental issues in physics, particularly the quantum theory of computation and information, and especially constructor theory, which he is proposing as a new way of formulating laws of nature.

52:21He is the author of The Fabric of Reality and The Beginning of Infinity, and he is an advocate of the philosophy of Karl Popper. You can find him online at daviddeutsch.org.uk. And I should return to what I stated initially, and that is preserving the lessons of a living legend. David is truly a pioneer in multiple fields. and the hope is that with the help of naval because i am in the passenger seat i am largely silent in this conversation that naval can help to tease out counterintuitive learnings that you can apply to your life and apply to your life in many many different areas and to quote naval i will say quote i think understanding david deutsch and carl popper is the easiest way to actually get smarter fix your epistemology and fix your thinking so what is epistemology briefly because that term comes up a lot.

53:14Simple definition of epistemology is the theory of knowledge, especially with regards to its methods, validity, and scope. And perhaps this is a key part you want to keep in mind, the distinction between justified belief and opinion. How do you separate fact from fiction? How do you stress test your own beliefs? How do you navigate reality, construct reality in a way that is helpful, optimistic, and constructive?

53:41My guest today is Michael Mobison, spelled M-A-U-B-O-U-S-S-I-N. You can find him on Twitter, MJ Mobison. He is the head of conciliant research on CounterPoint Global at Morgan Stanley Investment Management. Prior to joining CounterPoint Global, Michael was director of research at Blue Mountain Capital, head of global financial strategies at Credit Suisse, and chief investment strategist at Legg Mason Capital Management. Michael originally joined Credit Suisse in 1992 as a packaged food industry analyst. Some of you long-term listeners will perhaps recognize some of that from my conversation with Bill Gurley and was named chief U.S.

54:17investment strategist in 1999. Michael is the author of many books, including The Success Equation, subtitle Untangling Skill and Luck in Business, Sports and Investing, Think Twice, Harnessing the Power of Counterintuition, which I've mentioned several times on this podcast, and More Than You Know, Finding Financial Wisdom in Unconventional Places. More Than You Know was named one of the 100 best business books of all time by 800 CEO Read, one of the best business books by Businessweek, and best economics book by Strategy and Business. That's in 2006. Michael is also co-author with Alfred Rappaport of Expectations Investing, Reading Stock Prices for Better Returns.

54:55Michael has been an adjunct professor of finance at Columbia Business School since 1993 and is on the faculty of the Heilbrunn Center for Graham and Dodd investing. He received the Dean's Award for Teaching Excellence in 2009 and 2016, and the Graham and Dodd-Murray Greenwald Prize for Value Investing in 2021. He earned an AB from Georgetown University and is Chairman Emeritus of the Board of Trustees of the Santa Fe Institute, a leading center for multidisciplinary research in complex systems theory. You can find all things Michael at MichaelMobison.com.

55:32Dr. Kelly Starrett. Who is he? He's one of my favorite performance coaches. I've spent a lot of time with him. When I have problems other people cannot solve, if I have aches and pains, injuries, performance goals perhaps that people can't spec out for me, make sense of, I call Kelly. He's also a treasure trove of one-liners and is hilarious. So I think you'll enjoy our conversation. He has been on the podcast before, is very, very popular. Kelly Starr at DPT, you can find him on Twitter and Instagram at TheReadyState, is, along with his wife, Juliet, co-founder of TheReadyState. TheReadyState began as Mobility WOD in 2008.

56:11Just a side note, Kelly's like 230 pounds of pure muscle with quads bigger than my chest and he is more mobile and flexible than I am. Full lotus, no problem. Couch stretch until you think your hips would explode, no problem. So he really walks the talk and squats the talk, as it were. All right, so the ready state began as Mobility WOD in 2008 and has gone on to transform the field of performance therapy and self-care. You know, I'm going to keep adding in little tangents. I think it was for Kelly's 40th birthday he decided, and he'll have to correct me if I get this wrong, that he wanted to do a few things to celebrate his 40th birthday and mark it as a milestone.

56:53And if my memory serves me, it was a standing backflip. Remember the dimensions that I mentioned. It was running an ultra marathon, the quad dipsy. So look that up. It is no joke. Again, remember his physical dimensions and then power cleaning something like, I have no idea, 300 pounds, 350 pounds, something outrageous. So that is Kelly Starrett. He is the decathlete of power and mobility. So let's get back to the bio. His clients include professional athletes in the NFL, NBA, NHL, and MLB. That's Major League Baseball for folks outside of the US. He also works with Olympic gold medalists, tour de front cyclists, world and national record holding Olympic lifting and power athletes, CrossFit games medalists, professional ballet dancers, elite military personnel, and much more.

57:42Kelly is the author of the New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestsellers, Becoming a Supple Leopard and Ready to Run. His new book is Built to Move, subtitled The 10 Essential Habits to Help You Move Freely and Live Fully, co-written with Juliet Starrett. So her name has come up a few times now, and I've known Juliet for a long time. Who is Juliet? I just have to mention a few things before we move on. So Juliet, trained as an attorney. She's done a million different things, badass in business, incredible operator, but also she was the U.S. national champion in extreme whitewater racing from 1997 to 2000, world champion from 97 to 98.

58:23She returned to the sport in 2018 to become world champion in the master's division. So she is also very smart, very capable, very fit, and both of them as a team have really thought through what it takes to build yourself to move.

59:09over that week. It's kind of like my diary of cool things. It often includes articles I'm reading, books I'm reading, albums perhaps, gadgets, gizmos, all sorts of tech tricks and so on that get sent to me by my friends, including a lot of podcast guests. And these strange esoteric things end up in my field and then I test them and then I share them with you. So if that sounds fun, again, it's very short, a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend, something to think about. If you'd like to try it out, just go to tim.blog slash Friday, type that into your browser, tim.blog slash Friday, drop in your email, and you'll get the very next one.

59:48Thanks for listening.