#700: Guy Laliberté, Founder of Cirque du Soleil — The Power of Belief, Street Gangs, Wild Tales from Las Vegas, The Dangers of Nurturing Fear, and Dancing on the Cliff

26:59So at the other time, my parents sent me to a school in a college in Montreal, which was a boarding school, and obviously soon I realized with my friends that there's a bunch of priests that want to abuse you sexually. So I resist that. I beat that up. But I had a friend who suicided himself. And so I start to be very, very reactive. And it brought me a lot of angriness because, you know, what is the feeling? First, you resist. I've not been raped, but I've been, they've tried it and I got their trick. I resist. I fight it back. But there's some other kids there that didn't have this courage of reacting.

27:36And they were my friends and they got beat up in the sense of it killed their soul and then one suicide itself. So obviously, and I was incapable of saying to my parents at that time, remember, I was 10 years old, 11, and knowing my parents were religious. So obviously, would I be punished or would that? I didn't know. I was confused about the information. And I guess there was a taboo thing because I see my parents were very religious. I was confused. So I kept that for myself and among my friends. So I build up this desire to destroy to the point of a certain moment, even because of another event later, I left two events, a little bit like that.

28:15And the last one was just kind of like the add-on of that. I arrived to a point where I want to kill the person. And actually, I was not feeling that. So that dark moment really was present. I was doing things that was not necessarily creative. That was more destroying. I was doing things that is not how I was educated. It's not what I was feeling, but I was doing it by rage. And this is where it's super important to understand that what saved me out of that darkness is music and this desire of traveling and actually activating the action of getting out of my city and getting out of my environment because that was toxic.

28:54It was contaminated by what I had lived as children and I was not able to see the beauty and I was just seeing the darkness. And going out of this circle, geographical circle, had permit me to slowly heal these things to a point where a certain moment, I remember there was a very, very precise moment where I have the address. I knew where this person that tried to rape me was living and I kept in my pocket always the address because I said, if I pass by there, I want revenge. and a certain moment i physically had took the paper rip it off put in garbage and that was it i was living my future and i boom it but again this is how lucky i am do you know how many kids their life will be destroyed for things like that so again what that comes from is it the love of my parents this understanding of your dad this feeling that the way you think is not the way you want to be and overcome that.

29:52Do you know how many friends have not survived that? How many people have been, their life have been destroyed by living something like that? So obviously, once I overcome that, I become so engaged in those type of value and defending that, that I become very, very strong about not allowing those type of things in my surrounding. Compat that, fight that, not with my fist, but with my creativity. For me, making people live an emotion because they live a moment of joy. And when you're capable of putting down the walls that those people put in general around them to protect because they got hurt before, and you bring them to a point that they put down those walls and open their heart for you to plant a seed, it made me realize that part of my job is not only to be a merchant of happiness, but a soft medicine healer of the soul.

30:46I don't know how you could do that. And then it reversed totally. At the moment, I start to feel this power to understand that feed the circle of life, it feeds you back, and it was like very, very powerful. And it's like trying to explain it in a colorful way, but the dynamic is what I just explained to you. So it's very interesting because sometimes people tell a story, but they don't tell the source of why you are there. And there's many other things that I learned my lesson out, But this is a typical example that you could reverse negative and build it to even be better. So what do you believe in that?

31:22Of course, that person, those person was wrong because this is not right. But on the other side, if I didn't live that moment, maybe I would be a different person and not realize very young in my life that, wait a minute, no, I would not be and I would not use that type of power over other people. So it's very interesting. We could talk and talk. This is my philosophical part of the brain, but those are typical ways that I learn out of everything I engage in. Guy, thank you for sharing that. And I'm sorry that you and your friends experienced that. And as a spectator, as a, I guess, participant, but from the stands, someone who's gone to many Cirque du Soleil performances, is it's beautiful for me to hear how you referred metaphorically to the lowering of those walls, those protective mechanisms, because we don't have to spend much time on this.

32:14But I was very badly abused when I was very young, two to four. And I have very well established walls. But when I've gone to Cirque du Soleil performances, and there are a few places in life where this is true, but it's where I can forget those stories and become engaged with awe and wonder in a way that allows me to exhale and experience these things very fully in a very tangible way. So I just wanted to reflect back my personal experience. And you'll be surprised because I always said, you know, to hit the big seven, which is having the privilege on this planet to be born on the right side of the planet, having the love of your parents, water, food, not being beat physically before the age of 10 or sexually abused.

33:03Well, it has a question around, I will tell you, it's like, there's not many that qualify for the big seven. So this is very important to understand. I believe in the society we're living, it's a lot of creepy and twisted things that happen to human being and that human being to teach other. So again, Sig Dussolay, I'm so happy to hear your story because two things, my show were about, of course, the spectacular of it, the things like that. This was the big pleasure. But the fundamental satisfaction was coming from two things. Really having the impression that each of my shows was helping to build a better world in two ways.

33:43First, in exposing. Because all my show was all about inspired by the culture of the world, either through the music, the costume, the team, and things like that. My artist was a mosaic of all these beautiful people around the world that was performing. So for me, I believe that I was a promoter of one world. And by then, open the mind of people that there's other people than you and they could be beautiful too. And they don't have to think like you. That one. The second one is really what I just explained about this wall. Because I believe strongly that the power of love overcome the power of hate.

34:18Because it's a feeling. So when people feel something that extremely profound and deep in the emotion of joys, well, they will try and they will look into living that again and again and again. And the same effect when somebody suffers something. And this is why sometimes one event of aggressivity could provoke a monster. Why? Because the emotion is there and you want to give revenge. So he's building even more what he had in there. So it's like, it goes both ways. And like I said, I'm so happy to make that choice of my life that I could have these tools of this healing tools that I believe is, I think my job at Signe du Soleil, I did a lot of things, but one of the most important functions I have when we create a show, my job is to assure that every show, it could be a fraction of a second that any spectator in the place would say, wow, they did that for me, you know, whatever it is.

35:19And if I was able in my show to make people feel that I did that for them, that was the most wall was falling down at that moment. So again, it's understanding the psychology, the world, different way, radical acceptance, recognition that nothing's perfect. It's just like, this is all came to my journey. And SICK was the sandbox in which I was able to build that castle.

35:46Just a quick thanks to one of our sponsors, and we'll be right back to the show.

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37:02Let's track your path to the sandbox because there are many people who busk. I actually did a very small amount of busking in Paris, actually. But it pissed everybody off because I wasn't asking for money. I just did acroyoga with another woman who was there. Place Beaubourg. I think we were actually near, I'm not going to pronounce it properly, but near the gardens. What is it? Tullerie? Something. Oui, les Jardins de la Tullerie. Yes. Les Jardins de la Tullerie. I was close. I was close. So we were nearby. In front of the Louvre. In front of the Louvre. Yeah, very, exactly. And there are many buskers, many people who busk, but very few people who create something like Cirque du Soleil.

37:37So you come back from Europe. Could you describe some of the key decisions or moments leading up to Cirque du Soleil after you return? Actually, when I came back, I was not yet decided if I was going back to school or not. Again, I find another way to extend my year not going to school to tell my father, well, I need to make money now. Could you help me to have a job? You had a friend who had a factory to do a window for the RVs and trailers. So I worked there for months. Obviously, this was a factory job, but it was bringing a little money while I was playing in bars with music and still willing dealing anything that could sell on the side.

38:15What kind of stuff would you be selling on the side? Not baseball cards, anything. Anything, anything. I will find anything. I was able to see a opportunity to make a buck on anything. So you just like buy a bicycle at a yard sale and then sell it to somebody else? Something like that. Or buy, sell a bunch of jeans and going things and making five bucks over the jeans. That's cool. Whatever. I was a wheeler dealer. I was a hustler also. I was good at bagammon. I was like a pool and stuff. A little bit of everything. I always like to put to challenge. I love competition. Like I said, same competition amongst people.

38:51I think this permits you to, it's like playing poker. You discover personality of people by being a good chess player. That was nice. And actually, it's something I apply in business later on. But at that moment, we're talking about when I come back to Europe. So 1978, 79, got that job. And then there's another friend my father had, because at that time, the biggest job you could have was to go work on the dam in the north, the electrical dam. The wages there was like, you were sent there. You had the highest wages, extra hours. You were working seven hours. It was like you were doing so much money.

39:26So my father got me that job. So I go there. Then three days after I arrived there, my syndicate go and strike. Your syndicate is like the union of the workers? The union. The union. Got in strike three days after. I got it. Oh, here we go. My summer is screwed. My money is out. Bad timing. Then I come back. They want me to go picking. I have nothing to do with their things. To be honest, it's a community that I didn't even engage with. And I was like, I didn't know. I didn't feel emotionally engaged to go pick things because they were giving you a check, a small check, but they were giving you a check.

40:02So what I decided to do, I said, where did I then go in my province? And there was one place, Bay St. Paul, okay, which is a little village, North Quebec, which had the reputation of one of the coolest youth hostel there. And I said, wait a minute, I have a little check. I'll go there. I'll offer my service to help against a bed and food. That was it. And I'll wait. I didn't know when the stride would stop or not, but it ended up to be all summer. So when I arrived there, climbed the hill, and funny enough, I see Gilles Saint-Croix, that is one of the most important persons in my life with Cirque du Soleil, and another guy, Daniel Gauthier, that was my school friend, which was, we left a relationship, not a good note, and there I go.

40:45I said, okay, why do I end up with this guy that I want to see? But it's part of this. It was a nonprofit organization. And I arrived at the time where they were shaping the usual sales. So we prepared the things. I got the job of animating. So I was in charge of the party. You were in charge of parties at the hostel? Exactly. Okay. Parties, organizing things. That's what I was good to. I always been good at doing those things, organizing trips and stuff like to Louisiana at 15 years old, running the Mardi Gras. I have many of those mini stories there that we could talk for a long time. But this one was an important one because first the deal was, they would tell me, we cannot pay you, but we could offer you a roof and a bed.

41:27I said, that's okay with me, but could I have maybe the opportunity of making a little more money? I said, I'll organize your party, but I want to be able to pick up every beer bottle on the site and earn the money of the beer bottle. Oh, like the redemption, like you get the few cents. Exactly, the two cents. the five cents but i'm telling you after every day there was a truck on anti-bondon i made so much money going back and selling every day those bottle that i end up having a very with little contract of music and the bar and the cafe i end up having a pretty decent thing and this is where gil senkoa which was coming out of was also a very interesting misfit creature he was just coming back from an experience at Bread and Puppet in Vermont.

42:14I don't know if you remember. You know, I just heard about Bread and Puppet or Bread and Puppets for the first time from some of my family who live in Vermont. Literally last week, they just told me about it. Because you're probably too young to remember that. They're still there. But at that time, there was this leader and the Bread and Puppet movement was anti-war. It came during the Vietnam War and they had that farm in Vermont that they shape and they had a magic wood. And every year they were doing this festival and they were the master of stilt walking. And Jill came back of that and said, I have an ID.

42:48Let's do it. You know, I'm doing music. We're doing a little theater. So let's start a theater troupe on stilts. That's the end of 79. Then in the falls, I got called for the strike sale. And I go back to work on the dam. And Jill, in the meantime, choose another partner. I said, okay, well, you're not doing a collective. You want to do business? Fine. I said, but I won't hire you. I said, well, listen, I'm going in Mexico. Came back, went to the dam. A month after, Gilles said, I have the grant of the thing that you want to be an artist in my troupe. I said, I don't know. So a grant, this is from the government?

43:24The government, yeah. Basically, they had those grants that you could have enough money to pay salary for the summer. In that region of Quebec, it was very simple. 80 % of population was working on grand salary during the summer and get the unemployment check during the winter. This is what that region is about. So basically, you need 20 weeks to work to get your check the rest of the year. And that's what's the life. And most of people was living on that pattern. But I didn't know. So what I said, I said to my employer, I said, listen, I didn't have a house. I said, my house just went on fire.

43:57Could I have a couple of weeks to just organize a thing? I didn't want to lose my job. you know because if i say i quit uh that's it i'm done so i don't even know if i'm gonna worry so i nailed that story i got the permission went there never went back but at least i had that back off it's always you know you're playing chess in life i know it's like you make a move but you want to know what's your back move that was one of them so so eventually i accept to be one of the artists in this theater true bone stilts which was in partnership with this guy silvett nero we end up to be so bad for the business so at the end of the season actually we had an amazing experience it was a summer of my first big love in my life and an amazing theatrical original experience but bad relationship with the management especially that guy so everybody was like we don't like the guy they end up bankrupt at the end of the season gil said well you know it's like I'm making mistakes.

44:57And we all decided to create a nonprofit organization, buy back the assets, and started under a new company, which was the original, the foundation company that we built Sigue du Soleil with in the future. So step two of that was to manage. And then I was tour manager. I was like assuming a marketing business function. I was able to give my skill. And we had an amazing 1980 summer. This is the year also of the federal election. I was a candidate at the rhinoceros party. You know, there was this like crazy party that wasn't promising anything. I was a political candidate. We had a lot of fun. Quick question.

45:38So was the performance at that time still mostly theater on stilts or had it changed? Theater on stilts, music, fire breathing. By that moment, I really had mastered. I would say then all the skill I had, probably fire was the highest level I was mastering. So I had my pyro license. I was one of the best fire breeder in the world. I was developing device to manipulate fire. I was organizing show with fire. And this was my personal, I would say, feature. And I was very proud about it. And I was recognized for being one of the best Quebec fire player or fire master. That being said, then we did one season.

46:23And the winter, I was always, again, 20 weeks of work, and people were going and getting their paycheck for the rest of the winter. It was not my style. For me, it was about, okay, the job's finished. I was hitting the road all the time, south. One time on a motorcycle, going to Montreal, Key West, then San Diego, and then jumping there. But in 1979, 1998, and 1979, at the end of the first year, which was my love affair, I discovered Hawaii. Summer was the love of my life back then, first big love. And at the end of the year, it was like the broken heart of my life. Within six months, seven months, it was like I went from, wow, this is love, and second, oh, heartbreaking is very hard.

47:09It's very painful. So I had to take care of somewhere. So I was a friend that was in Hawaii on the big island of Kona that I passed by and arrived there. And wow, I was discovering a part of the world that I didn't see. and I always want to go Hawaii because my parents told me so many good things about it. And then I was there and it was very interesting. There was an interesting EP community performer there. There was like the EP side. There was, you know, nice nightlife, simple life and mellow things. But I was still in pain and it was a very interesting moment in my life. So for the two first week, it was fun, get to know people, but I had this sadness inside me and I was heartbroken and I was getting this little cafe or juice I was not drinking coffee but like this milkshake type of things you know in the morning at the same cafe and there was always this old EP there I remember he was a magician I learned that after that was always the same thing with me and a certain moment he approached me and he said hey what's wrong with you I said what's wrong with you you asked me the question what's wrong with me and I said well there's nothing wrong he said you're not on the vibe I said what do you mean you're fighting the rate of you know the guy was throwing me like that was like sitting down didn't even invite himself he invited himself he said wait a minute i'm in my bubble of pain and then he just keeps throwing me those things you're not feeling the vibe of the island and he said the sermon said you know what i know i'm disturbing you there but i will tell you one last thing i said try to feel the rhythm of the island and the island will bring you on the right side of your soul boom okay what is that and i let mom and and you know i could be very thing but i listen you have to understand remember kyle gibran the prophet things is like my first philosophical reading and i ram on it everything that make poetic sense or whatever i was it got my attention after that because when you're capable of reading behind the word and the meaning of it i start to discovery and this is where I start to like words before that it was pain but now I start to understand and I really reflect on that and watching sunset and then I start to just and this island changed my life this is where I start to get inspired I connect with a Lua troops I was doing my fiery hands I was playing accordion in the Italian restaurant going and hustling a a backgammon and a bar after.

49:39And, you know, meeting and realizing that, actually, so many things at that moment. I'll try to mention all of that. First of all, at that time, there was 101 type of religion or spiritual faction that was on there. On the island. On the island. Made me realize, wait a minute, because at the same time, you hear about all those fights about religion and things, and you say, wait a minute, it's like, what is it? And then you suddenly see a piece of land on earth that people live in peace with each other and respect. Wait a minute. Oh, something. Then you meet all those healers with potions, with growing herbs and stuff like that.

50:17And there's this healing spirit on the island. You see people at a rhythm that doesn't exist on the North American continent. There's a pace that is more toward the pace of the rhythm of the wave of the island or the wind instead of the subway rhythm. and then you meet a bunch of performer that we hang out on the beach every day and perform on the naked beach, on the non-naked beach. There's a party there, a funeral party. And then I start to, for the first time in my life, got to what I believe still today the closest to meditation on my side. I'm not a meditator guy. I never stopped. The Amsterdam, I had a nonstop.

50:58But when I watch sunset, this is a very peaceful thing. And this Hawaiian sunset, this is where I start to think about project. Remember, every winter I was coming out of that. That was the second year of the first year and then second. I went there three years before we did the Fête de Fouren, which I'll talk. But the sun was my inspiration moment. So I start to think about project, creating this. So my creative mind explode there. Okay. The reason what the name Soleil, Sigue du Soleil is for two reasons. the inspiration of the sun of the big island okay sunset which are amazing and at that time in the symbolic book of symbol sun was the symbol of the energy of youth so that was this is the name of my company so it came later but before that while i was there every winter was going down finding my old friends and just having it became my healing island that for the rest of my life every time i have a business decision, an emotional distress, a question about my decision to be made, this is where I find my answers.

52:04Every time I was coming there, I was planting the seeds of my question. And then I knew that when I come out of there, the answer will be there, whatever decision I made, and they were pretty much all good. So this is where the evolution of the theater troupe on stilts, you know, we were trying to grow and then Gilles said, okay, we'll do a winter version on skype and on the arena. I said, not for me, Dar. I'm not spending a winter here. I'm a beach bomber. I'm not a ski bomber. And this is where I started to talk about the project of a street performing festival in Bay St. Paul. And with Gilles, what we did in 1982, we went into this village, which is very traditional painting.

52:44You know, this place is recognized by, oh, this is a peaceful place for artists that paint a landscape and things like that. So we were already black sheep there, the youth social people in this village of wolf mentality. You know, you have to understand, this is all the old traditional families that are direct line from the founders of Quebec. You know, the people who got thrown in the boat by the French as bandings and built this country. And actually, it's very, it's not this wolf mentality because it's all very strong, established families. So when you're a stranger coming there. Oh, I see.

53:18They're just aggressive when you say wolf mentality. Well, yes, yes. And clan. The clan. They're very protective. And here arrive a bunch of people who are in a youth hotel cell or maybe dancing naked around a fire, taking substance. And actually, the first business that's been opened by our community there is called Le Mouton Noir, the cafe. The restaurant was called The Black Sheep. that we made a statement that we will assume the perception that we have. So you could imagine. And they had that festival at that time, which is an art festival painting, very touchy, white glove, white glove festival.

54:00You know, it was like an institution. And we arrive wanting to close the street and do a street performing festival. So we have to go through all the political level, conventions and then sponsorship. We're selling, you know, in our program,$75 little business card size in our program to the merchant. But we have to convince the people to give us a chance. And it became a success. You know, it's like financially we lost a little money, but we had the attention of the big city in terms of culture. We brought the merchant. We're super happy. So the black sheep go pitching this crazy idea in this, let's just call it maybe a conservative town, protective town.

54:42What was the key to the pitch? I don't know. You know, it's like, I guess, again, it's so convincing. Like I said, me and Gilles is a charming human being. Always paused, never raised. I was the jester. The jester. The jester, the Speedy Gonzalez guy. I'm always like hands up, talking like that, but with a lot of passion. But we arrived with something I believe was safe enough, colorful enough. business-wise maybe maybe it will have a good economic impact for us so we got a shot we got a shot and actually pretty well on obviously and again the last day the last day of the last show in the arena because all those people from home were there there was workshop people were learning how to do clowning in the wood in the mountain whatever we organized a very nice program you You know, it was not a big budget, but people showed up.

55:38And mostly a lot of my international friends decided to come and visit us because we were booking, co-booking. The big paycheck was from the main festival in Quebec City, but I got a good deal if I was getting a deal for them in Quebec. So that justified them to come. And I got them for a good price. But we had that closing show in the arena, which was everybody on the scene together. And where the last moment is the fanfare is there, and I'm blowing fire. And that moment, there's a thunderstorm. And we're playing that track that's called the Funabil, which means the person that walks on the wire.

56:15It became more anthem tracks. And we're in the grand finale, and suddenly the storm shut down all the electricity, and we're just with the flame and the candle. Super dramatic. And I still have goosebumps. And there was a big, big quantity of the Quebec street performer. And this is where we look at each other. It was so emotional. And we said, okay, let's think about, maybe it would be time to think about creating our own circus. Okay? And this is what inspired me. The first flame of inspiration came out. Wow. Look at all us together on stage. Imagine under a big tub. Start to share that. But obviously, starting a circus, far more difficult than doing a street performing festival.

57:00So we did a second year in 19, that was 1982. In 1983, we do the second version of it, and that's greater success. And then we got the attention of the government because 1984 was a celebration, the 450th anniversary of Discovery of Canada, both celebrating by the federal side and the provincial side. And you have to understand the provincial, we're French-Canadian, we're frogs or French fries, and then the English accent on the other side. And obviously the government want to celebrate and both take a position, very political. So there's a lot of money that is thrown for cultural shows, activities or things.

57:42So special money. So I've been invited, based on the success of El Foren, to depose or propose a project. And this is where at that moment I said, well, this is our window. So we build relationship with the director of programming. But we're still, you know, remember, I'm dealing now with the government. a cultural minister that is so in the high-end class, see, I'm hanging out with the stars. So you're thinking about a government where this minister of culture is totally star-systeming. You know, in all the different departments of culture, you have dance, opera, singing, whatever, music, street performing circus was not there.

58:24Basically, you have to understand the social reality there and the mentality of whatever festival government was about, pay them a sandwich, they'll entertain you for 50 minutes. Okay, so this is where we started. Their assumption was it was very low. We're the low brain. We're down the food chain. Okay, we're way down the food chain. Everybody get the money. Everybody get the contract and things. And here I am with one other friend that was Rabel Legui, which actually is the real co-founder. It's not the other one. The other one came later, but there's one real co-founder that left after the first year.

58:58So we engaged ourselves of going pitching to the government. And then there's different level of contracts you could get. But there was this artistic director that was in charter programming, Jean Grenot, that really we had connect. But I was pushing him to the, he was coming red sometimes. That's not what I'm asking you. You know, we had to fit in a formula. And I'm trying to pitch the first Quebec circus. and I'm trying to explain to him, he believed in him, he said, you will not be able to sell that to the government. You will not. I said, no, no, this is the time. And then slowly, by slowly, they would apply us to hire or put in our team somebody that was recognized by the government.

59:37A friend of mine, we play with it, but she was absolutely not the same level. But slowly, and I will always remember the tilting because there was a famous cap of a million dollar contract. And it's not grant, those were contract negotiating. And my project, that what I want to do with some compromise was costing$1.7 million. But to have over a million dollars, you have to do a minister council. So they didn't want to bring a freak like me as a proposed content provider, especially not that minister that doesn't like street reformer. So basically, I will always remember you pitch in front of the commissary, the minister and stuff.

1:00:15I have two documents on the table. one big cover colors and I put a corner there and I have a black and white one. Okay. And then because they asked me to stay at$999.99. Okay. One dollar under the million dollar project. And I did work. So I presented black and white. Everything of my project, I presented black and white. I said, this is a project. And there's one, of course, I've seen the document. I said, what is this other document? We call it. Well, I said, well, it's not important. It's like, this is the 1.7. You don't want it. and i raise it and i'm playing the game full on the game no no no you're just like it's what you get for a million and eventually somebody i'll ask me convinced me and it was part of the game actually this is all negotiation colorful negotiation i call that strategic thinking understanding human nature okay and it's very interesting and i learned all that in the street you know because in the streets is basically you have a fraction of seconds to decide if you hit and run if you hit or run fast or talk, but you don't have one minute to converse if there's a situation there.

1:01:22So one of the biggest skills in business I learned was in the street because of this dangerous environment, or you make friends or you run or you're ready to face a more physical reality. So obviously there was a compromise there where it was, we cannot give you$1.7 million now, but let's start with 1 million. And we promise you that over the summer, we'll be able, by exception, by exception, by exception, to get to your budget. So basically, I have my$1.7 million contract. And with all the hard start, we were the star of the summer. You know, everybody was failing, huge failure. We fell too in the first month, but the beauty of it is we were the product that was going in the country, in the countryside.

1:02:06So the first month was a disaster. We lost our big top. It was raining. It was like conflicts. The artist was fighting. Whatever happened at the beginning, we were in the mud up to the throat. But a month after, our show was so tight. You were able to prototype it in the countryside, so you were able to be a mess. But it didn't matter because you could refine it. Yeah, because they asked us, the minister, we want to keep the big city and the stars of the big city. They put us on the third row. You know, go, go in the cheap country. We were the piece of bread that was thrown in the country to satisfy, to touch everybody with a celebration thing.

1:02:46But at the end, it become the best thing that arrived for us. Because when we arrived in the big city, because we did play in big city, we arrived so ready. We became the success of the summer. Press-wise, public-wise, and government-wise. And prime minister was there. And he said, wait a minute. Those are the type of, because you have to understand, we're right in the middle of the independent movement. And the prime minister at that time was trying to always say, we're not done for a little bread coming out from the religious things by and then. And we lost everything to the English rest of Canada in terms of the economy.

1:03:19So this minister was like, believe in the French-Canadian creativity, business skill and stuff like that. So we became. The symbol. Totally. And they've loved that relationship with that prime minister. And he fell in love with that. We were his case or the product and the example of what he meant. So basically, the second year, he like twist the arm of the minister of culture. He said, no, if you want that amount, you have to give them. So it was a very important thing. So obviously, year second was more being by yourself in the business. But this is the beginning of it. This is how it came and that's how it took place.

1:03:54So let me pause for one second. So in that meeting, you have the black and white copy, you have the color copy. So you're playing on human nature and you're doing it really well because of, in part, your experience learning lessons on the street. Still, when you walked in, I assume that their perspective was street performing, again, lowest on the food chain. Right. So what else was there in the presentation that made them change their minds? Over time, because that was a year in preparation for meetings, we slowly got ally. Ah, right. You developed some relationships. She's a financial officer, which is a big man.

1:04:37Monsieur Mathieu became our defender. Then the press person was in love with you. You know, it's like there was so many, the Jacques Renaud director of creation that was like pushing, he won our project. So suddenly the administration, the people at the administration level, not at the decision level, well, middle level, decision level, start to recommend us. I said, no, you have to have that type of programming and all this. This is the risk. They became our defender. And actually, and we had certain a lie, but slowly we convinced them by, I believe what they believe was a great creative project, but also our enthusiasts.

1:05:15We were a bunch of kids. You have to understand. We were coming from the streets and this was a window. And as a wheeler dealer, this is an opportunity. I'm not giving. And they're like, unless the fish is cutting the line, I'm taking that fish out of the pile. Okay. so i was really always in this like war i was on a mission and i achieve it and because what i was carrying on my shoulder is the dream of all the community in montreal or quebec that for years was talking about the dream of doing a circus but never nobody organized it and i had the credibility of that tribes because i did the street performing festival so i was able to ally behind me, the entire community.

1:05:57And I was giving kind of like the carte blanche to make it happen. And without having to go through this collective process of things, because I believe in consultation, I believe in collectivity, but at a certain moment, I believe also that everybody in the organization have specific responsibility. And mine was to make final decision. And I got the respect of that. It was not, I had to gain it in the first month because there was a lot of challenge related to that. But at the end, I got the support of the community and the press, favorable critics, and the love of the public. So once you have those three things in front of whoever, you have an army.

1:06:34Yeah, you have an army. And let's talk about maybe influences, philosophies I read, and maybe this came later, so we could also pause this for later, but that your marketing inspirations were P.T. Barnum and Walt Disney. P.T. Barnum, obviously, people who know and read well, very complex character, but basically invent modern marketing. Talk good, talk bad, but talk about it was his line. And, you know, this is a guy that was bringing a circus in New York and will make sure that the biggest truck that carried the biggest elephant will have a breakthrough in the middle of Times Square. Oh, breakdown.

1:07:12And he will have a breakdown. and we'll have the front page of the New York Times a day after that worth$100 ,000, okay? He was a master of that. And for people, and I understand, even if people think that he was abusing freaks and stuff like that, he had decided, yes, to do business with all the misfits, but he gave them a roof and a community. So that, and the other one is Walt Disney. Walt Disney. Oh my God. And I was like this, I don't know, we're not on the visual here. But over a napkin, he designed the entire vision of Walt Disney with things. There's a famous napkin drawing that he did.

1:07:51Yeah, like the parks, the merchandising. Exactly, exactly, exactly. So this guy was so creative and so business. It was a perfect balance of the two sides of the brain of a person. So obviously, this was my other influence. At the time that you get the million dollars with additional, like maybe it adds up over time to whatever it was, 1.5 million from the government, then you do another year. At that point, what was your aspiration? Well, the other year was almost killing it. The other year we were technically in bankruptcy. Okay. What you don't know in between, say once you have those contracts, well, then you have to go and find a bank.

1:08:29It's one thing to convince the government, but I'm telling you, it's much more difficult to convince banks. To help you with your financing. Yeah, because the government was signing a letter, contract, but the payment process of government is a little longer than just signing a check every month. So we have to go and finance and find the bridge, which was Banker. And my God, this was like hilarious. I don't know. I think we did Avery Banker in a hundred miles around the city we were in. And basically we're entertainers. They all have a smile, but they all told us no with a smile saying, well, I like your project, but us bank, we need collateral.

1:09:07And actually we don't know what we'll do with a trapeze or a tent or a crane truck or a counter of hot dog if you fail. And then, listen, this is a contract. Yeah, but so, but we end up, and it's very, very funny. We end up in the last financial institution we ever thought we could know or not. That was a little bank that was mainly known to finance strikes. So basically, you know, you have a a lot of money and things. When people go on strikes, they need a bank that will manage the strike budget. How does the bank get repaid if they're funding a strike? They take some portion of the settlement?

1:09:48No, no, no. Basically, the union have a lot of money, but they use those banks. This is where they put their money in. So this is the number one bank in Quebec where the The union puts their money. Deposits their money. Deposits. So most of their members are union workers. Right. There's not a business person in business with them. They're all union. This is a union bank. I get it. Yeah. That have no clue of financing a business or whatever. And this is where we, and this is the one bank that gave us our first bank account with a first credit line or advance the money that the government, they trust.

1:10:27Because that's what they get. They're used to that. They use that union would say, okay, give money to those people. We found it. We guarantee the money. So it's in their DNA to advance money to people who have no money because they have people, big bank account that say we'll pay. Government is the same thing as a union. They have big bank account. Anyway, so in this moment, we established the first year was not risky because it was all pretty much guaranteed. And we end up with 50 ,000 profit. Out of the 1.7 million, a couple of equipment, but a lot of experience. But obviously, it also tells me that we cannot work under the model.

1:11:06We did that because it was a compromise. So we had to go to the market. And then we were by ourselves. There was no more grant or no more contract from the government. But we had the prime minister out there that really loved it. And 1985 was the international year of the youth for young people, youth. So that just made me for me. One thing like that for me to build all the next second year of Signe du Soleil under the youth banners. And here we go. We build the Signe du Soleil. And actually, even there, I recognize that we cannot survive with the ambition we had when I built only in our province.

1:11:39We were condemned to export on time. I see. Just for financial reasons, you would have to export. Yeah, yeah. There was not enough market. Yeah. Not enough market. You know, the analyze we had on the things was okay. We could do three months for months. but to run a circus you have to do nine months ten months over the year and because of the climate and the population ratio we have to export so our first line of exportation was ontario toronto and niagara falls two million visitors whatever by month or things like that that's what the government told us you should they're just like the biggest tourist destination niagara fall So the way we had no money for marketing, you have to understand that we were tied.

1:12:23We had little subsidies, we had things, but money was always coming at the end. And at the end, what made the success of entertainment is your marketing campaign. But we were always short on money for promotion. So we were betting always on the first night or creating a PD Barneyum event in the downtown city or whatever to get a little press. And that year, it was going well. You know, Toronto was going well, But we were so fragile in terms of a general budget that one city, you know, we could afford a little hiccup, but a drastic failure would create a drastic financial situation. So we arrive.

1:13:02That's almost the last city on the tour. We're in Iyer Falls. We're all prepped, you know, for the opening night. There's fully people there, all the politicians, the local people. And then normally the history tells us that the day after the sales tickets increase and we get our end result. Second day, 10 tickets. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. Second show, 65 people in the room when I have 75 workers. Okay. Second day, 20 tickets. So I went on and on. I was like, what's wrong? What happened? And then I have a revolt of the artists. We're not going to play in front of 15 people. this is where the rule that we will never perform we made a deal with the artists that we will never perform if the number of public is under the number of artists that was a moment we made a deal like that but it was catastrophic so then it's like what's going on and we did all kind of things by page of things we tried to react but nothing was working and this is where a certain moment is like what's wrong why are we that bad it doesn't work to then realize that yes there's 2 million people passing an airfall, but the average of stay of people is 45 minutes.

1:14:14And the other one who stay long, they're honeymooner and they are in their room having their honeymooner moment. So we understand that the notion of market study, really. But the result of that is we're technically in bankruptcy. And we saw that. So this specific bang, and this is a true story. You know, obviously we were about three quarter million dollars in deficit at that time. But to arrive there, we had to survive the end of the tour, pay the salary. And if we don't do that, that's it. So we have a list of supplier under$5 ,000 and over$5 ,000. We have a payroll to deliver every two weeks.

1:14:49And we have our minimum OPEX costs and we cannot build back. So you have to pay cash. And then we have no more cash. We're coming back in Montreal. We know we'll get a little more money and we could reduce that and not overcome everything. but we have to survive that because if we cannot bring a little more money to balance a little bit we're done and then who's else we have no money we're not selling tickets so the banker this union bank that we have like i don't know 100 000 that year or 200 000 credit line start to allow without approval of his committee first it was every check we're doing we went over maybe another 100 000 Then he said, wait a minute, you know, you're over your line.

1:15:31Yeah. And, you know, instead of telling you, you can't do any more, he said, please, could you not do check over$10 ,000? I said, like, wait a minute, this is a banker. So we do check under$10 ,000. Then the second call is, please, could you not do check over$5 ,000? It went down to$500. So he was in. And the last thing we got out of him, it was, I think, a$25 ,000 or$30 ,000 payroll, the last payroll of the season. We went to there and said, listen, I know we're way over. And the guy said, look at me. And he said, I'll lose my head. I have no authorization. I did things that I was not a rise to do as a director of the bank.

1:16:11He said, if this goes wrong, I'm dead. But I said, yeah, but please, you're definitely dead if you don't help me to pay the payroll. And the guy released another$25 ,000,$30 ,000 to pay the payroll. And then we're end of season. And my partner at that time, Danielle, we look at each other. If one, and we have maybe$20 ,000 cash that we put outside. And we said to each other, if one supplier come and post an action. Like a lawsuit or, yeah, claim. Just claim, just going to court, then it will trigger all the things. Then very soon, what we did is I took all the supplier over 10. I said to the bank, first of all, I said to the bank, could I have five, six months?

1:16:56You know, we're doing another tour. We have a contract. They exported the night 86 in Vancouver. We have good traction. You know, it's like we're popular, but we don't, we're totally, technically we're broke. So I went on with my director of administration and me, we went to every supplier and made a deal. Didn't pay none of them except three, and then we'd use the cash. We made a deal, postponed check, eight months in 12 checks. All of them. They all accept. Why did they accept? They loved us. Okay. They trust us. I think they believe in us. We were upfront, but we had a deal. You know, we had a braid of six months minimum, eight months of each of them, with postponing check with the promise that if the cash was coming first, we will pay them faster.

1:17:47My God, this is angel flying. And not only one, this is like 50 angels. And actually, it was about 250 supplier. Whatever, from 500 to 10 ,000. The biggest one, I think, was 100 ,000. And the bank. And the bank. And the guy has to go back. So the bank, I have to ask. So this guy is clearly just breaking all the rules. It seems like to give you guys this money. Was he, I want to know a little bit more about that. I mean, was he just pissed off at his boss and he was going to quit in six months anyway? No, no. I know, being a bit of a joker, but why would he, I mean, he's risking his job, I would think doing this.

1:18:23Totally, totally. But I guess you have to be there at the origin. We came like, we were a storm of color, of happiness. And what we're doing, we're what people never saw in the circus thing. So we were clearly, we were inspired and we were working hard and we were working on a business plan. And everybody understands if we bring that things, it could be a huge success. But we were just young entrepreneurs that was living everything a young generation have to face when you do business. And suddenly, every wall of those people that normally would put a wall in front of kids at the side. And I didn't interview everybody of it, but I would say for the banker point, because he became a great, great friend.

1:19:05it was just like, I just believed. And I was ready to go battle with my bank committee, you know, and say we should. And actually his philosophy was banks should sometimes take risk, business risk, and not only protect themselves. You know, his principle, we do so much money that a portion of our things should be when we feel it to take greater risk over and above what the rules of bank rules is. And that's what he was defending. Actually, he was using my case and actually this bank that we stayed until I sold Cid du Soleil. We were super faithful to him. And for him, it became the bank that every young cultural enterprise or young things were to go because they made a model out of that.

1:19:49And they had been able to service there. And it was just like, again, this was a type of thing. And then 86, we went to Vancouver. In one year, we pay everybody, the bank and stuff like that. It was all done. And then 87, we hit LA. It was a live or die in LA. opening night again at work most died that night wait did you say you almost died that night well listen that day okay you have to understand we're going to los angeles festival art festival super again institutional things director of programming come he came late he said well we're interested but we have no money to book you i said why i'm going from quebec to canada have to put everything on things and one of my partner was saying, well, let's go to Vermont.

1:20:33What the hell? Vermont would tell you if we will be successful or not. We have to hit the big city, New York or Los Angeles. And we had an opportunity there. So I made a deal with the Los Angeles Festival. I said, okay, I'll go. I'll take my own risk. But please, could I have the opening night, okay, of the festival? And please, could you just at least make sure that in your promotion, your generic promotion, you put us? and I said third could you make sure we have good press the big name of Hollywood on the opening day but here we are we're in a little Tokyo you know where they put out in a little Tokyo yeah it's everybody else is in the forum of that all the big institution they threw us in the middle of the worst neighborhood there is little Tokyo okay downtown LA in a site that is the middle of which basically is the middle on one side you have one street gang and the other one you have the other street gang is one of the biggest crime place things that is like murder all over the it's just like wait a minute so we end up having to deal with the neighborhood there so and on and we have to you know we have two choices either way or security things so we decide i've been able to negotiate kind of a truce between the two gangs saying listen i'm coming i come from the streets i put all my street history behind i made them laugh uh you know i did the clown of myself i got their approval why because i said your wife your kids i'll give them job okay other than selling drugs or killing people whatever stealing my god too memorable moment okay and it was a very interesting because people tell us put the 20 foot no no i got another 420 foot things will give job so everybody a job the security parking cars uh cleaning hushers uh selling up dog whatever everybody that was hired from the two gang there and actually i think for a very long time that was the first time they were not killing each other in the same roof anyway so there's two events that happened that made me laugh one is about that opening day which you see people arrive the big limo the big mercedes the big rose royce and they give the key to the hood yeah this little kid that usually will break in the window and the guy was like going park the place in the worst place you could park that type of car so just that thing was like wow wow wow wow just that for me was an interesting mission accomplished somewhere to be able to make that kind of but the most freaky moment was the opening was in the afternoon and it was so hot so hot and people arrive and you know all they would they don't arrive on the dot it takes 45 minutes oh my god as we were dying just that's like they had people it was like 100 degree people were sweating you know and then okay uh it's not complete and the organizers wait a minute this this star is coming he's on his way so we decided to send the clowns to animate the place and you have the mayor you have like the governor it's like all the big shabang is there and they're on time okay so they're just sitting down waiting and so you're Yeah, and then my clown go because we have to give a little animation pre-show.

1:23:46So I said to my bunch of clowns, okay, just go. Don't do the things of the pre-show, but you have enough tricks to make them laugh. My one belly clown, one of them is clown. First thing he's coming, he's coming with a hose, a water hose. Oh, water hose, yeah, yeah. Water hose, open the hose and start to spray everybody and think, I said, I'm dying. I'm there, I'm dying. I said, I will really die in Italy. And then suddenly, a fraction of a second, because you could see people reacting in Seoul. And then you see the first body talk, and there's suddenly a bunch of people all together, give it more.

1:24:23They stand up, and it's like, give me more water. Magic moment. Wow. Then we did the show. That could have gone a lot of ways. That's what I'm saying. I thought it was going the other side. So finally do the show, standing ovation. and the day after is like sell, sell. So we're sold out. And this was the beginning of never looking back again. We did have bumpy road and stuff like that. But from that moment, there's only one year, the year of a growth crisis in our growth that we lost a little money. But since then, sick, except the bankruptcy year, we've been doing money, money. Never, never been on a deficit year.

1:25:00That's interesting. Super interesting. So if you look at LA, so you told a bunch of stories about LA, You're headed to Vancouver. You do really well in Vancouver. You don't want to repeat Niagara Falls, obviously. Now, Vancouver is very different from Niagara Falls, but was there any planning or changes that you made to the preparation before going to Vancouver that made a big difference? Now, you have to understand that we start to build wealth, you know, on reputation and we're able to do media deal. So we're starting to be much more strategic in our communication. Remember, the first year was very difficult because we have all the money for the operation, but we're very tight.

1:25:37Suddenly we start to generate cash flow and profit. So again, it's support of good campaigns. So we're able to buy a full page in the New York Times and hit and create, I would say, attention. We were very famous to every opening night at that time. It was an amazing party that everybody wanted to be there. And then after that, sales was going. And the model was click, click, click, click. And then we expand to show. And then the breakthrough of Vegas with Steve Wynn. It was just like life or the universe. And it was presenting us opportunity. And we were, our eyes was enough open to see them and seize them.

1:26:17Because it goes both ways. And I believe this is something that's very important for people to understand how we were thinking. It's that somewhere in this space or this dimension, there's something for us. And we have to find it. But not only we had find it, but it was coming to us. And this is all the notion of the blue ocean concept versus the red ocean environment. We basically created a blue ocean by itself. We were ahead of time. We packaged. We didn't reinvent nothing. The hard form of circus was there. We just put color on something that was very dusty and apply a theatrical approach versus a circus show approach.

1:26:56And we are in the end. Once we start to have money, we reinvest for supplying our organic growth. And at the same time that we're building relationship and having access to bank money. So we became great business people. And that always related to when, at the beginning of CIRC, when I tried to convince bank, put a place on the board where nobody wanted to be a boarder. I said, well, now I'm condemned to play business. And I still had to play business. and had fun playing business because it was always about the game. And I was like, we come from nothing. So what was the wrong situation? Go back to nothing?

1:27:32I couldn't live that. That's where I come from. And while I was seeing successful people failing because they were starting to nurture to not having tomorrow they have today and start to nurture fear. And there was like, no. Could you explain that a bit more? I've seen a lot of successful enterprise. There's many things that kill success, right? The first one I've seen is about once you have success, you get a lot of reward financially, economically, and then you're starting to nurture the fear of not having tomorrow what you have today. Right. And then change your entire way of addressing things.

1:28:09So suddenly you're not the same person. You don't address your business the same way. You don't address your vision and things because you nurture fear. Okay. So my say of that is like danger there is. but please evaluate danger don't nurture fear because at the moment you nurture fear there's a good chance that you call your fear and the result of the fear so that's one thing and i've seen a lot of entrepreneur shifting their way of being shifting or transforming what they are and deny where they come from so at the end not being themselves and having a business of success changing their soul, their way of doing things, and become other people, which again, could affect the result company.

1:28:54And the other one is more recognizing or realizing that at a certain moment, you're not the person to bring your business or your baby to another level, to be able to step out when you realize that you maximize for different reasons, your contribution to the success of your enterprise. So let's talk about the first part of that just a little bit longer, because I lived in Silicon Valley for 17 years and I have a lot of friends from that period of my life. Many of them have shifted, I would say, into trying to defend what they have or have experienced more fear because they don't know who to trust, et cetera.

1:29:32I mean, there are many stories about it. Yeah, trust is a big factor also. So what else would you say to those people? They're people you care about. You see them maybe changing or feeding the fear. What else would you say to them? You mentioned something about trust. There's a thin line between wasting time of doubting versus trying to see the best side of a person and work toward making a merge of a person this best side. And this is a conversation I still have, whatever, with my kids, with my ex and the actual business. It's this notion of to which level you trust without compromising the fundamental.

1:30:09And this is very difficult to conclude because I've lived the two spectrum of that in life. I got some of the best reward by trusting people and focusing on their beautiful soul versus their dark side. And that has been very rewarding. That provoked the observation that people have sometime when you have give them trust, they will fell in the trap of failing in the greed, ego and power side of life versus the love, respect and trust side of life, which is what we had built our things with. And that brought me a lot of deception to people I really trust that I believe that we had enough experience together and they fell on that part.

1:30:54And again, it happened in my own little ethos, but look what's going on in the world. You know, we're driven by this tension between the two sides of it. And obviously the people who are driven by greed, ego, and power, every morning they wake up and then thinking about how they could be better. Us, you know, on the side of the love, peace and love and stuff like that, we get it on the face. We look at the sun, we meditate and we're a little more slow to react to that. So I guess we have to be a little more organized. If I'm understanding you correctly, I mean, it sounds like you're suggesting maybe defaulting to trusting people and expecting sometimes you're going to get punched in the face, but that's just the tax you pay for being optimistic.

1:31:35Or are there other ways that you protect the fundamentals? No, I would say at the end, there's more success than failure, but the failure are more touching than the wind of trust because it's usually attached to deception. So I'm talking more about the deception. You know, you're in business, you win, you lose, you make good decisions, you do bad decisions. That's part of it. Nobody's perfect. And nobody's perfect in the choice of who you work with, who you trust or not. It's part of doing business. It's more deep than that, what I'm saying. It's just like, so this is why I guess as much honest conversation at the beginning to establish, not the contract.

1:32:13This is why in my contract, I always not put just the legals part. I always start the first page by the assumption, the spirit of how a deal is done. Because my wish that if there's conflict, before going on the legal battle, you look at what the spirit of the deal was. And if you have sensitive people, intelligent people, they will relate to this foundation version, the word of the legal things. And that's actually a page in the document that has the contract. It's a page in the contract. It's a page in the contract where the first page is not about legal stuff. It's about the philosophy, the spirit of why we're doing the dream.

1:32:51What had brought us to that deal? What is the spirit of the deal? Okay. I made a mistake to forget that sometime. And this was the most chaotic things because I'm telling you, it's like, if you're not attached to the spirit and it's just legal, we're living in a country, you know, not America, especially in the States, hit in me, it'll make me happy. making mistakes and not clear, it's much more difficult for a person to deny the spirit if it's been written down. It will deny it and say, it's not what I say. Because when you try to bring the spirit in an oral conversation, they will always find a way to justify that it's not what they say.

1:33:30Yeah, that's smart. To write the thing, it's very difficult for them. Then it's betrayal. Yeah. Understand? Then you know it's a betrayal. It's not a misunderstanding. Is that first page, I'm very interested in this, is it almost just like regular text, like it's paragraphs or is it bullets? It's understanding that we desire to conquer Planet March. We will do everything. You know, it's like very poetic sometimes, very philosophic. It's very mission-oriented. You know, we all do document in business, a mission and vision. Why are we not putting those principles right in the contract when two parties do things?

1:34:10Because this becomes a new mission. This is built on new value. And I think this is, I believe, an antidote against persecution or a legal process. Yeah, that's very smart. Well, I've not been that smart all the time because I'm in some case that I forgot to put it or my family office, I forgot to put it. But now I'm telling you, this will be for no on. Even with experience, I did forget to put it because I guess I even trusted more than I believe that I should not put it in it. And that became the biggest betrayal in business I ever did. So now it's there forever. So you mentioned a name earlier that I'd love to hear you say more about.

1:34:54So I think you mentioned Steve Wynn. So how does Steve Wynn fit into this story? Game changer. Steve Wynn, a game changer for me. When I started Cig du Soleil, I always found myself by going to see as much show as possible. So right up in a Cirque, I would go visit, see artists, and I would always make a stop in Vegas to see the entertainment. And then suddenly Mirage arrived there, and the Zig Fren and Roy show was there, and not the entire show. The first 20 minutes, it was like mind-blowing. I said, wow. I was so inspiring and impactful for me because I realized and made me realize that, wait a minute, Vegas is as his baby foot of modern entertainment.

1:35:38You know, you have New York on one side, London on the other side, but Vegas is still cheesy. They have big production, but still not deep in the, I would call the theatrical, the artistic. It's very flamboyant. It's a big thing. And they put a lot of money. You have a volcano, you have like showers or whatever, a hundred dancers, you have the spectacular. but when you analyze it in the artistic quality things, it's level one. And then with this 20 minutes, I say, wait a minute, I look around, it's one, two, three, four, five, six, because you know, they don't have a big show or this big show has been there.

1:36:15So I suddenly realized, I said, wait a minute, this city has the potential of becoming the third biggest entertainment city in the world after New York or with New York and London. And this is where a certain moment I start to put a lot of focus. Then we have, Caesars was the first one to approach us from a vice president entertainment part, Caesars location. So we engage in the development of the deal, which I had at that time to put$300 ,000. They put$300 ,000 and we develop a concept of show. It's called Timeless Kiss. But Timeless Kiss is the first show, which is a, but Mystere, okay? Mystere at Treasure Island.

1:36:53But we went to a level, presented the board, Henry Glock, Terry Lani, and Century City in Los Angeles, all those very aged persons with a couple of young executives, and we pitched. And we believed at that moment that we did a great pitch. We were confident in the show. And actually, the deal with them was far away from the deal they made in the future with Seawood. So I'm back in Montreal waiting the answer. I received a phone call. I was on my treadmill. And this vice president said, well, sorry, I have a bad news. I said, well, the board think that your show is too esoteric for Las Vegas. Esoteric was the word to explain to me why they're not going ahead with the deal.

1:37:35I raged. I don't think ever in my life I had done so many hours of Stepmaster in my life in a row. I was raging, screaming for three hours. And then I was like, wait a minute. And that was$300 ,000 investment at the moment. We're talking 1990, 91. beginning of our success and that was into the concept development yeah well yes yes we were trying to make a deal with one of the casino to put our product there then that failed so we went around next one next one is the hilton where elvis pressey was there at that time it was like a broadway show was there same story pitch pitch pitch suddenly and oh it's too complex and then That one, I didn't rage because having received that answer once, I was expecting.

1:38:23And then like a week after, I received a message called Steve Wynn, called you, called back. So I called back, Monsieur Laliberté. He's having this very more radio voice than me. He said, I heard you were flirting with my competitors. Have you made any deal with my competition? I said, no, why? I said, why didn't you come see me? I said, well, you have the best show in town. I didn't even think you'd be interested in my brother. You have the best show in town. Well, he said, I would like to have a conversation. I think I have some things that we could bring Cirque du Soleil. I said, have you seen Cirque du Soleil?

1:39:01Yeah, I've seen it in Santa Monica in 1987. I said, we have a new show. It's called The Ville Experience. Have you seen it? No. I want you to see it. He said, where are you? He said, well, I'm in Toronto now. But I said, before we converge, I want you to see what I am about now. I don't know at that moment that he has his eye problem and vision problem. So he said, I'll be there Friday with my CEO and one or two board members. So he flow in, receive in, look at things. And then I see the guy. We go intermission. He said, I like it. So I would like to bring this show behind the Mirage. And we could set up there.

1:39:41He turned around. He said, deal? I look at that deal. And he presented his hand. I said, well, we have to negotiate. He said, this guy will make sure that you will have a good deal and I will have a good deal and we'll make it happen. I need to be activated very fast. Shake hand. They have to make a deal. They bought all the new equipment, build the things behind the Mirage. And I didn't know at that time that for him, you have something else. You have the Treasure Island, what is mine, and actually he wanted to lock me down. he did that contract just to lock me down so I could not talk to others because he in two years after he was building this thing and it cost his money and on the top of that opening night my god again all the big shebang of Vegas and Steve Wynn have very powerful and influential friends in the political things the business side he has his bankers there and opening night one artist animation again but this one could have been turned very bad He did that 2 ,000 times.

1:40:43He's sliding on a row from the tower over the head of people on the stage. We're about to start a show. I'm seeing from the side of my life the artist fell on the people. Oh, God. I think I experienced what it means and what is the temperature and the feeling to be in the tomb. The sound, the sound of the big tub. the CEO Bobby Ball and see the same thing and Steve wouldn't don't see what's going on what's going on and CEO said well there's an artist who fell on the end and he knew that who fell I think it was a banker one of the major banks so he just fell in that thing oh no and Steve said what and dead silence so thank God it was just kind of like hurt on the shoulder he couldn't break his neck basically one inches on the top he'd break the neck and that was it for me it was done okay so we go to show and you know it was a hard show to start the show and build up success so the reaction at the end was good but it was not the terrific you know it was not overwhelming it was like everybody was like uh is he okay and uh so we overcome that moment that it could have been crucial and then uh two three months after he said the real reason why i i want to lock you down is because i'm doing treasure island i want you to do the main show of this thing.

1:42:10So the show gave us and became the timeless kids that we may miss there. We tried to explain to him our creative process, which we need, you know, you give us a theater, we'll design it for a show, but we need dust free and we need time to rehearsal. And with clowns, we need the audience to test things and stuff like that. So theoretically get everything. First dress rehearsal, another magic moment with Steve Wynn. My clown, the same Benny, by the way, the same Benny that is my clown, he wanted to do a satiric clown number. The fire hose, right. The water hose. The same one who's done that, still believe he's one of the best lines of the world, but he wanted to do an original clown act, which is about a satiric number of boxing in Las Vegas.

1:42:55And his game is to set up kind of boxing things, theatrical one, invite an audience member to have a boxing fight that end up to throw each other tarts. Cream tarts. Okay. But the test people are only the worker of the casino plus all the executives. Because Steve wouldn't ask all these top executives, go check it out. First, we don't even call that a dress real, so we call that a lion den. Meaning it's a cage for lion. The risk we're taking there, and we just want a little bit. Normally, we invite friends and family, small crowd. The room is like probably 50 % of the executives with the attire right there.

1:43:35and the number go wrong. Benny panicked, the clown panicked, and he started to throw all the tart on the audience. So, of course, I received a phone call from Steve Wynn that's doing ski and ass band. I said, well, I will not use the word. Happened. He's like, what are you doing? What is it to throw tarts to people in the room, in the new theater? And I said, Steve. He's like, this was the lion dance, and we're testing it. get wrong and stuff like that the clown panic will correct that don't worry that's part of the process i said and he said there's no f way you can you can say it on my show i'm just okay because with all those things there's no fucking way exactly well i didn't say it you say that i just tried to play with the situation so he said listen i'm flying tomorrow I want a private view of the show.

1:44:32Okay. And there's no way you will open the show. And I will tell you what's worked, what doesn't work. I have the experience of that in Las Vegas. And we're there, everybody's freaking out. So I'm cranking because we took months to explain him this process. And now he's like treading me to not open the show, whatever, you know, in a Steve wing way. So we arrive. I'm not sitting with him. I'm sitting with Bobby Baldwin, and a CEO because he's my friend and that's the one I made the deal. Franco Dragone and Gilles St. Troyes, the director and the director of creation with Steve. And you could see Steve.

1:45:07And you know, those shows that have so much mechanic on it, you cannot put the artist on risk. So you don't run the show at real speed. You run the show in a safe way so you mark the step and then, you know, it's a process. So I'm obliged to run a show that's supposed to give him the information what the show is about. but instead of being 100 miles an hour, it's running at 75. So obviously, you don't see the beauty of the race car. You know, it's like, it is just safety, safety, safety. You mark, you take a client lining. There's a light could affect an acrobat. You know, there's all this hundreds of detail.

1:45:41So obviously, everything is slowed down. So at the end of the show, stand up. We have a meeting with him. And he's around at Abo. he looked at the he talked to her he was like what the fuck is this show? He said it looked and felt like a fucking German opera.

1:46:03Franco Dragone the director turned around and said thank you Steve this is the biggest compliment you can ever tell me about the show I create. Swear to God this is true sorry. I see this is like what? But then I just here i just tell you the show is a piece of crap and you're telling me thank you by telling you that but and yeah and franco explained he's like do you know german opera is very important in the world of open rise with institution and steve is totally disabilized and then he starts to say i like that i don't like that i want you to change that and then i intervened and said no steve i said i explain you explain with the things we're not done yet with the show this will be a great Rachel, trust me.

1:46:50And by the way, I have the last word contractually about what will be the show or not. And his reaction, yeah, but I control the room. And if I decide nobody goes in, fair for you. Then you'll be in penalty. Because if I deliver a show and I have the right, if you don't want to let people in, it's your problem. I would have done my job. And then he turned raised because he said, you have to understand, Steve Wynn always had control on 2 % of his narrative. Everybody's at this foot. Here's a little kid from Quebec, like standing in front of him saying no. When people tell him yes three times in a row to make sure he understand no, yes.

1:47:26And then he turned and Bobby Baldwin, CEO said, what the fuck is that contract? I don't have the last word. And he said, well, Steve, you asked me to make a deal with them and that was a break deal. You asked me to make sure that it will be with us. I did it. That was a condition. It was a break deal. I signed it. To the credit of Steve. To the credit of Steve. At the moment, the CEO said, this is contractually binding. Steve said, okay, then. I will have to trust you. I hope you're right. And you will prove me wrong. But here it is. I will trust you. See you at opening night. Just like that? Just like that.

1:48:01Opening night. Day after, sold out, sold out, sold out. We were the hit new show. Rock Vegas. Then after that, there was a whole show. And you know the story. It's like bang, bang, bang. To a certain point that after you sold to MGM, There's a moment at the pentacle of things. We were responsible of 6 % of about 40 million visitors, of primary reason why people were coming to Vegas. And we were controlling almost 39 % of every entertainment ticket in Las Vegas. Wow. So we did contribute a little bit. Now Vegas is a total red ocean, but we arrived, created a blue ocean, and just like squeeze it with beautiful show.

1:48:42And they were giving us all the money we want to create the most amazing show. And O is an example of it. This is like masterpiece. It's like, that's the perfect match with somebody who believe in you, have a lot of money, and a team that arrive at creative maturity to do his masterpiece. So I'll just mention for people, Blue Ocean, the Blue Ocean Strategy, also a great book worth reading that gets more into this concept. Which was a test case story. A case study. A case study on it. And it's very interesting. And people will read it. It really makes you understand how addressing a red ocean by creating a blue ocean could totally be a game changer for an enterprise and the way of thinking about your envisioning strategy.

1:49:24Yeah, total game changer. And I would love to ask you more about Steve Wynn. We might come back to it, but I know we're coming up on two hours. So I want to be respectful of your time. But let me ask you this question, which is, I would love to get your perspective on maybe what people miss about Cirque du Soleil and why it became successful. Because I imagine there are many people listening to this who will wonder, and I've wondered this too, why didn't someone else do this? Well, we were a pioneer. But after the success, like any good success, you have impact. Creative Mind or production company.

1:49:56Some will have the easy reaction, a lazy reaction of trying to copy you. Very bad for them. Very bad for the business. Very bad for my brand. Why? Because they will play inspired by, they will call that a sick of that, to try to grab the flavor and attract them by trying to sell that they're at the same level, right? Disaster. And this, for me, it's lazy people to do that and non-creative people. There's some of that and you have to deal with that. So in some tribe, I usually, they don't last long, but it does affect your credibility for a period of time. But people are not stupid. They will understand what is the real recipe versus the fake one, right?

1:50:43We're the original. Then there's the other one that you inspire, okay? Young artists. And I had a lot, I was responsible for a lot of new emerging entertainment companies that inspired themselves about what we did and became the second generation. you know it's like an art you have the first generation you have the second generation and you have the the other one that are we call the derivative derivative of the bad one you know that sometimes make money out things but they just copy and they have no contribution to the evolution of the art but today we have nurtured sigle soleil and nurture dozen of second generation of artists and things and it's not necessarily always about circus i'm yahoo for example i don't know if you know Mia Wolf.

1:51:29So for example, Mia Wolf, without saying they're second generation, but they are because I know the founder or some of them. And, you know, obviously we had a huge impact in inspiring cultural or artistic entrepreneur to use us as inspiration. And Mia Wolf, some of them, I said, well, listen, you've been very important in inspiring us and many others like that. And when you see this, or even in circus, there's been little troops, Cirque du Soleil, all like babies of Cirque du Soleil that define their own style, that inspire and contribute to the elevation of the art of circus. And that's beautiful.

1:52:09And there's more of that than failure. And actually, it's very rewarding to see that type of impact you could have on the next generation. So, yes, it's people who try, but the clever one or the one who don't try to copy, but try to make their own signature. so Guy I want to be respectful of time do you want to keep going for like 10-15 minutes yeah yeah yeah okay I would like to talk about the community you know which is again the beautiful 40 years that I live with amazing colorful people that come from the same environment of work which is funny then obviously I sold Sigue du Soleil 2015 many things happen another story to tell and I'm jumping to the conclusion where went from family office, different portfolio, explore a lot of things.

1:53:02I don't want to go into details. Rough moment, COVID, having to, you know, I was about to activate new content, new project and COVID killed it all, lost my investors and stuff like that. You know, like starting to lose, not every year. Now it's like at least a couple of months, friends that are dying, you know, make me realize that, wait a minute, i'm not saying clock is ticking but let's say time passed fast and it does have impact and i realized that what became important was my parents and then suddenly it was about wait a minute one of my dream because i had some dream in my life but the recent dream was about hey i would love to go back with all my group of people or friends invite them on the island or whatever and spend a couple days or a night just with a good bottle of wine and just listen what their life was about, just to see the people you love, what they evolved.

1:53:56Because a lot of them, I always keep contact with them, but some I've not seen for 20 years. And we're still in contact. We just would love to hug ourself and have a good conversation again. So it changed the last couple of years, really, and especially from last year. About 14 months ago, I really went through that period of, whoa, what are my priorities? First, family office type of money management. Not my type of, I'm an entrepreneur. Okay, I need action. I don't have the patience of most of the things. One of my investments was the biggest betrayal of my life. I said, wait a minute. I want to be with my friend.

1:54:36I want to be with my loved one. I want to be with my tribe. I want to be with my family. So it shifted, made me the decision that I said, I want to do shows again. So the last year about, since last September, yeah, about a year, I've been gearing up and we've been developing concepts and with some of it with my old friends that we told ourselves, let's do something again. and a bunch of young, new kids, young people that have the fire, the drive, and that I invite to play with us and make sure with all my elders that we use this opportunity of creating things and transfer the knowledge of what we have, our wisdom, form them and give them and work with them so they could carry on a nice entertainment environment.

1:55:23And at the end, what does it mean? What is the conclusion of that? It's like, you know, in life, you could have all the success you want. You could have all that. But what is most important? Your family, your friends, your tribe, the people you live a life with. And the comfort of that is so much important than anything else after. Which at the end, if you realize that, and for me, this exercise of starting up a new entertainment company with new show that I cannot disclose today, but I believe the pretty ass kicker also there. We have, first of all, we have a lot of fun. We're laughing our ass out every morning that we're writing and creating that thing.

1:55:59So we'll live or die from the public reaction. But among the team here, we're like cranking up and we have a lot of joys. But at the end, what all this will permit me is somewhere, hopefully, to this new adventure engage in, which I didn't have to, is maybe end up having achieved one of my goals at the end, which is, as I mentioned before, being a good ancestor. and this is all the desire of giving back as much as I could in the time left and I hope there's another 30 years whatever my goal is at least 100 years but I was fed by so much love so much joy so much opportunity that what I got was bigger than what one individual left so I'm trying to find a way that how could I give back of all that through what I know best is creating shows and creating entertainment company.

1:56:50So this is where I am. We talked about the tome one, there's a tome two, and I'm starting to engage tome three, basically. Very different and also very interconnected chapters, it would seem. And how much of the getting back to performing or shows is the performing in the shows, the content versus having a reason or an excuse to get together with your old friends and the performers? Well, there's a different factor on that. One, is I realized I didn't do my epilogue. You know, I left, I'm playing a call, I visit things. I had a bad result thing for X reason. Again, another conversation. But what is my epilogue in all this amazing, creative production adventure?

1:57:38And what I'm working now is my epilogue. The second thing is a challenge. It's funny. As much as I'm very active, I have the impression that I could become very lazy when comfort is there. So I always perform the best when I'm on the cliff. And it's true. It's true. And knowing that if I decide to come back on that, and I'm risking a lot, I cannot do what I did at Cirque du Soleil. I have to find a different way. I have to address every angle of the artistic experience I'm about to do with a different look at it. And this is intellectually so, so challenging and interesting. So I'm having a very interesting brain activities with all those hamsters that keep rolling.

1:58:19The hamsters are definitely awake in this brain. Alive and well, dancing on the cliff. Well, Guy, is there anything else you'd like to say, any requests of my audience or anything else that you'd like to add before we close this first round? Yeah, but if I open my mouth again, it will be$5 by word that I say from now on. It's okay. No problem, no problem. Well, this has been incredibly fun. I'm glad that this finally came together. And I really appreciate you taking the time and sharing everything that you've shared. And hopefully we'll get a chance to do a round two. To have a good bottle of wine together.

1:58:59Have a good bottle of wine. Absolutely. Where are you based? I'm based in Austin, Texas. Oh, okay. But I travel a lot. So I'm on both coasts. I'm international frequently. So I'm sure there's an opportunity where we can make an opportunity. I spend a lot of time in Vegas, especially by activating certain things. Let's make sure we don't lose contact. I will definitely either a good bottle of sake over a good Japanese meal or a good bottle of wine, the red wine, Burgundy over a good meal. Sounds perfect. And really appreciate you taking all the time. And to everybody listening, we will link to everything in the show notes and more at tim.blog.com slash podcast.

1:59:39and as always be a little bit kinder than is necessary both to others and to yourself until next time thanks for tuning in hey guys this is tim again just one more thing before you take off and that is five bullet friday would you enjoy getting a short email from me every friday that provides a little fun before the weekend between one and a half and two million people subscribe to my free newsletter my super short newsletter called five bullet friday easy to sign up, easy to cancel. It is basically a half page that I send out every Friday to share the coolest things I've found or discovered or have started exploring over that week.

2:00:17It's kind of like my diary of cool things. It often includes articles I'm reading, books I'm reading, albums perhaps, gadgets, gizmos, all sorts of tech tricks and so on that get sent to me by my friends, including a lot of podcast guests. And these strange esoteric things end up in my field and then I test them and then I share them with you. So if that sounds fun, again, it's very short, a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend, something to think about. If you'd like to try it out, just go to tim.blog.com. Type that into your browser, tim.blog.com. Drop in your email and you'll get the very next one.

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2:04:31影片 crushing