#874: Guy Oseary — The Legendary Hollywood Power Broker on 5-Minute Decisions, 36 Years of Managing Madonna, 26 IPOs, and Spotting Magic First

21:21Tim Ferriss:Was there any flashpoint or was it really gradual? The Bernie Bernstein moment where he offered me 25 grand the week I turned 16 was a big game changer for me. And then there was a personal moment for me when I got a car when I finally passed my driving test. Took a few times. When I finally got my car, I remember going to see my old friends from my old school. When I drove it to Beverly Hills High, it was a Honda Civic. When I drove it to Beverly Hills High, I got not one person commented or said congratulations or nothing, no mention of it at all. And then I went to my old friends from my old school and then they couldn't believe I had a brand new Honda Civic.

22:04And they got in the car and they were rolling down the windows and sticking their arms and heads out. And I was like, oh, wow, okay. I got a little perspective there to go, oh, these people at Beverly, they're not really my friends. I'm here for a reason. I was putting around this community for a reason, which is to work and which is to build my name and to build the things I want to do. And it wasn't until years later, I actually had told that story in that thing you're talking about when I was 24. My dad mentioned it was really hard to even come up with the money for that car back then. It was a really big deal for us.

22:38It was expensive back then. And so I think I need a perspective a lot of the opportunities that were in front of me and to really appreciate them. So it's a combination of those things.

22:53Tim Ferriss:And from the chapters we've discussed so far, I mean, was then the next phase building your relationship with Madonna primarily? Or where did you kind of hop off past the things that we've already discussed? Madonna, the first real connection was that whole connection where it's like, well, tell me this thing that you like. And then the second artist I brought was Rage Against the Machine. And I really wanted to sign Rage Against the Machine. And so I took her to the concert in New York, The Limelight, I think it was called. And I didn't get them either. I didn't get Rage. They ended up going with Michael Goldstone at Epic Records.

23:30So, you know, God, the first two things I competed for, I didn't get.

23:34Tim Ferriss:Well, not only did you not get them, but they went on to be successes, right? Yeah, it was painful. The third one that I competed for, I did get. It was called Candlebox. And at that time, actually, I think it outsold both Hole and Rage at that time. They ended up doing really, really well. But regardless, hole and rage, even to today, I still listen to them. I love them. But I was very lucky to get Candlebox. The fact that they bet on me, we didn't have anything. We just had this idea, you know, they ended up selling 4 million albums on that album. But I'll never forget that. I'll never forget that they gave me that shot.

24:08That was my first success story was Candlebox. So they give you a shot, but just to repeat what you just said, like you didn't have much,

24:17Tim Ferriss:right? They're placing a bet on you. What then goes into helping make a hit album that sells 4 million? Going back to that time period, first is the music. I was so lucky. I walked into almost everything that I've been lucky on happens within minutes, not within days or weeks or months to think about it. It's all intuitive and it's very fast. I walked into, I was supposed to be somewhere else that night, but I went to this party. was so bad that I thought, oh, I have time to go see that showcase of that band from Seattle. So I go to the lingerie on Sunset and I walk in and these guys start performing.

24:56Now there was a screen, like a video screen on the side of the stage, like, and then there's a stage. And I was looking at the video screen. There may be like 30 people in the audience. It's a showcase. and I'm looking at that screen and I saw thousands of people singing along to that band. In your mind. In my mind, yeah. I went to the payphone from that performance, called Freddie and said, Freddie, I have our band. This is the band. I just saw them. This is the one. So it starts with that. Always starts with the magic. I don't care if you're a tech company or you're whatever it is, a film, a product, a book, magic.

25:38You got to have magic. Something has to pull you in. And that night I saw it, I visualized it, and the songs were there. The songs were so there that when we made the album, their first two singles, we could not beat the demo. They went in to re-record them for the album. So whatever they made for a few hundred bucks that I had, with a lot more money and a lot more time, we couldn't beat. And so those songs, those first two songs on the album are from the demo. So the music was there. They were talented. The band was talented. The singer, Kevin, is so great. And they really did it the hard way.

26:13They chipped away. They did show after show after show. Took a few years for every week, every week, little by little, little by little. Key word is artist development. And people don't artist develop that much. But it's something that we all want. Every artist wants to have the time to build, have the time to develop. And we really took that time week after week after week developing that one. And that's how we got there.

26:37Tim Ferriss:This may be jumping ahead too far, but what would be an example of that in your investing later? Could be tech, could be outside of tech where you saw something or you talked to someone and it was within a matter of minutes or one conversation where you're like, okay, that is a horse to bet on. Honestly, I would say that 90 % of the things I do happen in the first five minutes. 90%. It drives me crazy when we get in a room and talk about it for three months. And I respect the process. I know there is a process to these things, but I think I know what I want to do very quickly. It started out, I think the muscle that got built for fast sort of response thinking or intuition was really in the music business.

27:28We have such a small label, so boutique, and we're competing with these big companies that have been around forever and have all these other artists. We didn't have any artists. So when I met an artist that I liked them, Alanis Morissette, I signed off of one song. Muse, I saw them perform one song and I'd stopped them. They flew all the way from London to LA to showcase for me. After the first song, I stopped them. I said, you do not have to play another song. They're like, we flew out all the way from London. We'd like to play more music. I go, but I just want you to know, I do not need to hear another song.

28:01Just be clear. So it shows the artist the passion, which is very important. This person believes in me that much. High conviction, yeah. High conviction. And also, if I left it available, maybe someone will offer them way more money or make them other promises. And I couldn't afford to not make fast decisions or else we would never have gotten to where we got to.

28:27Tim Ferriss:But in any of those examples, and I know this is possibly very hard to verbalize. Someone said to me recently, and I thought it was pretty funny, they're like, yeah, in Silicon Valley, if you say you're using your intuition, nobody listens. But if you say pattern matching, then they pay attention. But if you were trying to explain what you intuited or noticed in that one song, understanding the music is good, but what else are you picking up from those five minutes? Because you can't bet on everything, especially the small label. So what were you picking up on that allowed you to make a fast decision in that way?

29:05I have to fall in love. And you can't fall in love every five seconds. I didn't know I was going to fall in love with Alanis when she walked in my office with Glenn Ballard. They came in to play me. I didn't know what was going on here. I thought they were a band. He was the producer, co-writer. You just have a feeling. There is a lot of pattern recognition later. Like now with experience, now I bring other elements into the mix, other things I'm looking for that are different than back then. It was just, I love it. I'm ready to go. I feel it. You have to fall in love. And later today, I would say on my tech investing and what I do there, it's a combination of gut, pattern recognition.

29:45And then there's a few other things. One of the things I look for is, can I help it? I visualize what I can do for the company and that gets me excited too. So I go, oh, wow. Okay. I have a feeling I can help in a big way. Or I have a puzzle starts to come together for me very quickly. So that's important. And then of course, there's the other aspect of, well, you got to make sure they do what they say. hey, let's try this thing out. Let's make sure the car actually shows up when you press the app and it picks you up. Well, make sure that things work. Make sure that you can stay at the apartment and it's actually, oh, I pressed the thing and I can get an apartment.

30:19These things have to work. But for me, it all starts with that initial pitch.

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31:59Tim Ferriss:So how does Alanis Morissette fit into your life? Seems like an important piece of the puzzle. Yeah, she played a big role in my life. She was the rocket ship that just took me to the next level. I mentioned earlier, she appeared in my office with Glenn Ballard. And they played me one song. They played a few songs, but the first song they played was a song called Perfect. I didn't understand how powerful those lyrics were until later. what I really listened to it. It's really about earning your parents' do they believe in you? Do they love you? I don't know if you know lyrics. Sometimes it's never quite enough when you're flawless, then you'll win my love.

32:42Don't forget to win first place. Don't forget to keep that smile on your face. I didn't even understand. To me, it was just, well, how is she putting these words together? I just had never heard anything like it. And again, later, I understood how powerful those lyrics were. But at that time, I was just in love with what I was hearing. I hadn't heard anything like it. And I went, I'm ready to sign you. I love this. I'm all in. And I didn't know anything. Remember, I didn't know that the comparisons where people were like, oh, I thought it was Joni Mitchell. People were like, oh, I didn't know Joni Mitchell.

33:18So to me, she was my Joni Mitchell. I didn't never listen to Joni Mitchell before. I listened to it later because of her. I wanted to know what people were talking about. but to me she was my Joni Mitchell and I didn't know any of the background a lot of people prejudged her because she as a teen did like a pop album in Canada and so people had all this background I had no background I literally was asked to meet with her and Glenn and I knew nothing all you had was that I knew nothing they walked in and I thought oh wow it felt like a hippie group actually I was like oh maybe there's like some sort of hippie vibe kind of what is this going to be like kind of thing but it was again another life-changing moment when the story is told it's that everyone passed but i just felt it in the first minute and then we ended up working together and working on that album and that album ended up selling 30 million albums and i think top five debut album of all time that really just took me to the not only did i sign it but everyone else didn't want to sign it So it's not like I even competed.

34:20So it really cemented that I'm in a good place right now, that I can do these things. And this probably is going to give me more opportunity to do more of these things. So she's such a big part of my life. And she's so talented. How lucky that years later, right now, she's still winning awards. She's still out there crushing. She's actually doing incredibly well right now. and it makes me so proud to have played any part of that it would be so sad to have missed that one i'm so happy to have been fortunate to have gotten that meeting and to have figured it out a lot of people when they initially heard it i remember freddie once asking me what do you think this record could sell before it ever came out.

35:10And I go, millions of albums. I just had a feeling that I had not heard anything like this and that this was a monumental record. The rest is history. The rest is history.

35:24Tim Ferriss:I'd love to spend a little bit of time on what you've learned from Madonna. This is an older variety piece. But the quote here that's attributed to you is, she mentored me and by working so hard, pushed me to work so hard. I didn't know shit until she grabbed me by the hand and said, let me show it to you. And it goes on and it goes on. But what did you pick up from Madonna? What are the key sort of learnings? I mean, there's some clear learnings and there's stuff that with, I'm 36 years next to this woman. And there's things that when you look back, you go, okay, you know, I got that. Like people who think about things that, well, they got that from my brother or my mother or my friend.

36:03There are things that I didn't realize I was getting the whole time. So there's both. And the front part is pretty, I think, obvious. Her work ethic is not to be believed. Her commitment to her craft, not to be believed. Her passion for just the greatest gifts of whether it's through the books that she's reading or through the art that she's finding or the people that inspire her or the designers or that she's so surrounded herself with a collection of some of the most incredible people in the world. And she identified them, by the way. She is the greatest identifier. She found these amazing talents early and was able to be painters or Frida Kahlo, or they could be designers or musical people.

36:53She's an incredible finder of talent. So I think the thing that has really affected me the most is that there's no walls around her. thoughts. There's no, oh, I can't do that.

37:09Tim Ferriss:Right. In terms of constraints, right? Yeah. And I think that even going back to my first experience at Maverick Records, if you went to any record label, they would have put me in a compartment. There's the R &B department, there's the jazz department, the rock department, reggae department, pop department, hip hop department. And you're, oh, what department are you in? And they sort of bucket you into these things. And I think that when I look back and I go, how did I not really bucket myself? I went from this to this, to that, to that, to that. It's really just being around her has allowed me to never think in a limited way.

37:44And they all work together. A lot of the stuff I do on technology has allowed me to bring that into my musical world and to understand how these things work together or the relationships. And they're so hand in hand. And of course, a few decades later, now people understand that. But at the time, it was so, it was very much like, well, what are you doing? This tech thing is crazy. And you're doing, innovation is innovation. And how we can distribute music or how we market and vice versa. All the stuff from music is when you're launching a new company, these founders are rock stars. In my mind, every founder I invest in, I look at them like they are the rock star.

38:22I go, that person has music they want to share with the world. They have their album. And my job is to identify that artist, that founder, before everyone else maybe identifies them. And my job is to help you reach that audience. How do we tell the story? How do we reach the base of your audience? How do we grow your audience? What's your first single? What's your second single? I still work in that kind of process, which is very musical in my mind.

38:49Tim Ferriss:We're going to spend a good amount of real estate on the tech. But before we get to it, I want to take a moment to explore the terrain of film and how you ended up executive producing Twilight and all of the rest. Because as you mentioned, in a different environment with a different label, you would have been tightly siloed and you wouldn't have had that ability, right? How did you end up with the foray into film? I'd been signing bands for a long time and running the record label. And I thought, well, why don't we do a film company as well? And Madonna and I were really in a good groove together.

39:33I thought, let's just start this film company. Why did that come to mind? I don't really recall that. I just recall thinking about how people do it differently. And so, again, I didn't have context. The best thing sometimes is to have zero context. So sometimes fresh is okay. Sometimes having a blank canvas. And with films, I had a blank canvas. I didn't know how it worked, but I knew I wanted to make some films. So I had this idea of bringing in a bunch of producers under one roof, and they were all independent producers. The idea was, is I'll bring them in and house them and give them support and pay for a lot of the legal, things that cost money.

40:18When you're independent, there's a lot on you.

40:20Tim Ferriss:All the back office. all of that. We'll take all that on. We'll help you. And then we'll work on these projects together. And we had like a lot of producers. If I was to pay for them, I couldn't have afforded it, but we did it that way. And out of that came a lot of films and a lot of different Twilight and Percy Jackson, a few others that I was very lucky to be part of. The guy who ran it, Mark Morgan, was really good at it, but there were a lot of complications. And I was at that same moment that started to take off, I picked up Madonna as manager with my partner at the time, Angela, and I took on Confessions, which was pretty massive tour that year.

41:03And I think the biggest laying record of that year. So as a, I don't know how old I was back then, but that was a major responsibility for me.

41:11Tim Ferriss:Hard to ride both of those horses at the same time. Just that alone, just Madonna at that moment in time for someone, I had not been a music manager for anything near that level. And so to take that on and to work on all things, the tour and the album and all that. And for people who have no context on music at all, what does a music manager do? It's a tricky question because no one manager is the same. Everyone's different. I guess, what was your umbrella of responsibilities? is when madonna started working on ray of light i found the producer william orbit but i was not managing her i was her partner at the record label maverick records right and not her own not warner brothers which is where she was on war brothers but we were just friends and working together but i fed ideas i found the director jonas okkerlund and so i was creatively really working on this project called Ray of Light.

42:11So we're already building a creative rapport. And on music, Stefan Sidnaway, the director, introduced me to a producer named Merwais, gave me a demo. I loved it. And I gave it to Madonna and I ended up becoming music. So I found on those two albums, even though I wasn't managing her, I was creatively helping here and there bring in some ideas. So we already had a rhythm on the creative side. Now, there are some managers that don't do any creative, and there are some that are very creative. I was coming from the creative point of view on ideas, ideating. Here's things we could do. Here's things we could build.

42:46So I think that's the management that I am. I'm more creative. When I'm working with someone, I'm sort of in it. And there are other managers I've worked with who, they don't do the creative, but they do an incredible job managing everything. Putting together the tour, but they're not in there going, what if we did this? What if we... There's different kinds of managers. I'm for creative. For example, when I showed her, Jonas Arkerlin did a video for Prodigy, which is a band I signed, and it was really provocative. And I just showed it to her, this is crazy. And she goes, he's doing my first video.

43:20Or I showed her, there's a guy named Chris Cunningham. He made a song called Come to Daddy by Aphex Twin, which is really insane. It's a$30 ,000 video. I just showed it to her just to show her, look at this crazy thing. And she's like, that guy's doing that video. So she had Chris Cunningham do Frozen, which is an incredible video. And she had Jonas Ackerlund do Ray of Light. So it was just a really great back and forth. We had really great energy together. She was open to my craziness and then she would take it to the next level.

43:53Tim Ferriss:What, and this is my, even when I was very, very young and everybody knew Madonna. I was constantly impressed by her longevity and ability to seemingly reinvent herself. And I'm just wondering why you think she has been so consistently good at that over decades. I mean, it was the first example that I remember even as a young, pretty young kid, marveling over. And I'm just wondering if you could add any color to that. She doesn't sit well on her past. She's not high-fiving herself. She just keeps it moving forward. And I think that is part of the inspiration for continually trying to move forward myself, is I have a front row seat or shotgun to this incredible journey of this a woman who just continually defies all the odds and fights the fight.

45:01It is not easy. It's not that she's maintained or stayed around. It's actually that she's had to fight her way through it a lot. She's breaking ground for a lot of other people who are coming behind her who can say, oh, Madonna's done it, I can do it. But it is no easy feat. There is a lot of bullshit to deal with. I think it comes from she just doesn't celebrate her accomplishments. She just starts like it's a brand new day.

45:30Tim Ferriss:How did you end up, and I don't know if this is a good starting point, but I'll throw it out there as an example. Your first consumer investment, Vitacoco. Well done. Thank you. I don't know if that was your 10th investment overall or your first, but how did you end up edging into the world of investing, whether it was CPG and consumer stuff or tech. How did that even come to be? The original, original, original was I was on a plane to Milan for MTV Awards. And I don't remember how old I was. It was my twenties. And I was reading in a magazine about sky Dayton and it said he started earth link and he was worth a hundred million dollars.

46:19I'm like, wait, what you can, wait, what is he doing? How old is he? And so I go, when I get back home, I want to meet this guy. So I came back and I took me a while, but I finally tracked him down and we went to have lunch four seasons hotel. And, and he was like, wow, if you're impressed by me, have you ever heard of bill gross? And I go, no, who's that? He goes, well, he started an incubator and he's launched$3 billion companies in one year. And I go, Sky, I like you, but can you just, can you get out of the way?

46:50Tim Ferriss:This time has been great. It's time to move on. I need to talk to this Bill Gross guy. So he sets me up with Bill Gross. Bill Gross ran an incubator called Idealab in Pasadena. And I just loved it. I love the idea of a lot of ideas reminding me of the record label, where you had all these artists and you had all these project managers. or the independent producers. A version of that. And you can walk in and out of different rooms and you can say, oh, okay, what are we doing here? What are we doing here? And so he was building all these different companies and I would go in and out of ones that I could be helpful to.

47:21And I would learn about it. So that was like a, oh, okay, an incubator. I really fell in love with that idea. And there's bad news to this story. But it's like all things, it worked out in the end. Well, wait a second.

47:34Tim Ferriss:My listeners are going to kill me if I don't follow up. What was the bad news? Well, I mean, the bad news is that I worked there for a year helping. And then one day, someone I really trust that they don't know it to this day. They're an incredible human. And I was lucky to sit with them at dinner one night. And they were telling me how Bill Gross is one of the greatest investments they've ever made. So I called up Bill and I go, Bill, I want to put money into Idealab. And he goes, well, you know, I was going to surprise you and I was going to put X dollars in for you from out of my heart for all the work you've done here.

48:11And I go, oh, what is that worth? And he's like, you know, you told me what he thinks it's going to be worth when it comes out. And I was always worth a lot. And I go, that's not enough. I'm thinking, right? I'm thinking to myself, that's not enough. So I go, Bill, I want to put more in a lot more in. And he's like, hey, for you, I'll let you do whatever you want. And he did. He's a really, really sweet guy. And that's the bad news. He let me do whatever I wanted.

48:32Tim Ferriss:What year was this? It was before the crash. By the way, it wasn't a year before the crash. Yeah. I think it was like an hour before the crash. Okay. So I put every dollar I have plus dollars I didn't have. I picked out three investments at that time. Ideal Lab, because of Bill Gross, Bill was the first guy in, I think, in LA to have the Blackberries. So I was the first guy from Hollywood to even know what the hell BlackBerrys were. So I ended up buying 400 of them and I gave them to all the people in Hollywood so I could connect when I needed to and talk to them. And so I made a deal with Jim Basile to be an advisor because I was the guy that put it in everyone's hands.

49:17This is smartphones before anyone else was doing it. And then I also, my friend Seth Rotsky brought me vitamin water. So those weren't going to be my first three investments. what happened was the Idealab thing once I put that money in I don't know the timeline because I tried it's almost like something you want to wash away from your mind it collapsed fever dream

49:40Tim Ferriss:you're trying to forget the bubble burst so fast on all of that that I didn't have the heart to invest into I never signed my deal with Jim Balsley in Research in Motion and I never did my deal with Vitamin Water which both ended up, it's almost like the hole and rage analogy. They both ended up being massive. And then I lost all my money with the first one. So I learned about diversification. I didn't diversify. I put the majority of my money in one thing and I paid the price for it. I really, for the next two years, I only thought about that about 15 times a day. It didn't matter. If I was sitting here with you right now, back then I'd be thinking about it.

50:21I'd have a conversation with you, but I wasn't thinking about you. I was thinking about how did I lose all my money? on that one investment. Everything I saved my whole life. And I ended up, I was mad at that Sky Dayton introduced me. I was like mad at all the wrong reasons. Everyone was just trying to help me. But now I'm like, why did I even read that magazine? I should just stay in my music lane. But what happened was years later, after my first Madonna tour, I started to think about it again. And I go, I wasn't so off really. The timing was wrong on the Idealab part. The other two worked. had I diversified, I would have done incredibly well.

50:57Yeah, you would have been great. And so I went, so I got two out of the three. And the truth is, it's not fair to Bill because he really built an incredible company. And some of the stuff that he had built ended up becoming search for Google and a bunch of amazing things. But it just didn't work out. And that's life. Sometimes they don't work out, these deals. A lot of the time. But I came back from, I think I had done three Madonna tours in a row. you know all the money i'd lost i made that back to survive and then i had a window where i knew we were three tours in a row we're going to take some time off and i thought to myself i didn't get it so wrong so i'm going to try this one more time i'm good at identifying the ideas i'm good at identifying the talent i'm going to do one more time so i started and the same guy that brought me vitamin water, Seth Rotsky.

51:48Did he later work with Reese Witherspoon? Yes, exactly.

51:51Tim Ferriss:Huge. Yeah, yeah. He's done well for himself. And then he called me one day and goes, hey, have you heard of this coconut water thing? So, of course, I'd heard about coconut water. One, my wife is Brazilian, and my first son, his first words were like, agua de coco. So we drink coconut water at the house. But the whole coconut water sector in America, if you added all the companies together, was maybe a five or$7 million business. It was nothing. Nothing. But Madonna on tour, on the previous tour, she would have the trainer would go in different markets to find fresh coconut for her, for the coconut water.

52:29And I'm like, wow, every location we went to, we have to find fresh coconuts. And so I started to hear that other people were doing that as well. Other people who cared about their health were drinking coconut water. And I started to see, again, back to pattern recognition, I started to see this thing. And then one day the New York Post ran an article about coconut water. There was a photo of Giselle drinking from a coconut and they're talking about coconut water. And I had cut that out. I put that article on my desk. And when Seth called me and said, have you heard about coconut water? I go, you have to be kidding me.

53:01I have.

53:02Tim Ferriss:It's sitting on my desk. I have. The only thing that I've torn out that's sitting on my desk is an article about coconut water. It's on my desk. And it's like my to-do. Like, I need to figure this thing out. And here you are calling me. He goes, well, there's a company called Vitacoco out of New York. And I go, count me in. I got on a plane. I went to meet with the founder, Mike Kirbin. The company was a, I think it was a$35 million valuation at the time. And I literally just, here we go. I'm jumping back in. And I went in really big. I brought Madonna into that. I brought Demi Moore. I brought Matthew McConaughey, Anthony Kiedis.

53:35I brought a bunch of people into this thing because they were all healthy people who drank coconut water. I'm like, let's blow this thing up. That was the first time back after the crazy run.

53:45Tim Ferriss:For people who don't know, how did that turn out? It's a public company today. I think it's$4 billion market cap. So you're back in the game. Yes. It takes time. It takes time. It takes time. Didn't happen overnight. What were you looking for? How would you replay that meeting with the founder in your mind? You fly out, you meet with the founder. How did you approach that meeting? I think I approached it the way I approached everything. It wasn't, let's think about it. It was like, I'm all in. Let's go. I want to do this. Here's what I can do. And I think they were probably overwhelmed by, whoa, and we just ran.

54:24And he's awesome. What he's done with the company. We went public, I think, at like$2 billion and now it's at$5. He's done an incredible job.

54:31Tim Ferriss:So we're going to hop to some more recent examples, which may or may not include this chair in a moment. But I want to focus on a term or phrase that I've seen applied to you a lot, which is great curator of people. Chris Rock has said this. Matthew, you just mentioned, has said this. Woody Harrelson have all described you in this way. And you seem very intentional with the people you surround yourself with. Not only that, but you have these very long-term relationships with a lot of people. I'm wondering how you think about building relationships. I'm not saying you have to come up with like guys, 10 commandments of long-term relationships, but how would you think about that?

55:12Tim Ferriss:Right. If you're in front of a class of students and you're like, look, a lot of people get this wrong, or at least let me tell you how I approach relationships. Any particular rules that you use for yourself or just approaches, things you keep in mind, because that's certainly not true for everybody. Right. You just have this long-term cohesion of these people around you. And I'm just wondering if you can perhaps just speak to that in any way. Well, I think it started early. In my teens, there was a group of us that were running around and we found each other. So you find the other people who are also on the hustle, who are also creative.

55:52And I wasn't a comedian or a musician or an actor or a director. I was like an executive. and there's a little responsibility. He's the responsible one. I don't drink. I don't do drugs. So I found my position was to really be a safe zone for people, and they knew I worked with Madonna, which... Pretty much gave a lot of credibility to, okay, this guy, she trusts him. Maybe we should trust him. Maybe back in the day. But I think over a period of time, my house became the place that people would come to or people would congregate and feel safe. You know, even when I do events here or anything, there's not a lot of photos, there's no cameras.

56:35I think safety and support has always been in my DNA from an early age, just making sure that people are protected. And again, I think identifying really incredible people to be around. Same way I identify the greatest companies to invest in. I think I identified really amazing, incredibly talented friends who inspire me, who in their early days, you may not have known them 30 years ago, but you identify them and they identify you. And so there's this camaraderie and there's this trust. And I do try to bring them all together a lot. I think it's important.

57:11Tim Ferriss:That was going to be actually my next question, which is along those lines, which is how often do you gather people, whether it's at this house or at events that you put together, just to facilitate that long-term cohesion? How often do you organize or host things like that? even if i'm landing in new york this week i'll probably do a dinner and i'll invite the 15 or 20 friends and we sit down and we talk and we so like i'm always staying connected and in touch it's not like oh i haven't talked to you in a year no i'm checking in on my friends a lot finding out how they are and always we're always checking in on everybody i grew up just with my dad my two sisters were older they weren't around so my friends are they're everything i had before i had a family my friends were everything to me i'm lucky i get to work with some of my family you know madonna's i've been beside her for 36 years the chili peppers are my best friend in the world's godfather of my first son is anthony the whole band all of them flea chad john their family so it's a dynamic that i've chosen for myself is to really support and be around my friends a lot.

58:24It's a big part of my life, which is to keep that close. And again, if someone's in need, this is the number. Call me. I want to hop to the, back to the investing.

58:35Tim Ferriss:I mean, you've had a lot of hits. Airbnb, Uber, Spotify, it goes on and on and on. I mean, I don't know how many IPOs and so on that you've had. I mean, a gazillion. Let's talk about one. So you put in, tell me if I'm getting this right,$35 million at a$5 billion valuation into Anthropic. This is a company that's been in the news a lot. I think the last round was what, 965 billion, something like that. Are those numbers roughly accurate? Yes. Okay. So that's a pretty nice multiple so far. We'll see how things go. How did that Anthropic deal happen? Well, it starts a little the day that OpenAI came out, which was on my dad's birthday, ChatGPT, it was life-changing.

59:23You remember those moments. And again, I go back to music. I remember when I heard Smells Like Teen Spirit by Nirvana. I pulled over the car and I went, what is this? And when ChatGPT came out, that was a what is this moment for me. And if you saw me anytime after ChatGPT came out, I would have harassed you to show you ChatGPT. There's no one, every artist, every actor, everyone I walked around and met, I'm like, check this out, check this out, check this out. And I was obsessed. And I called Ashton and I said, Ashton, this is it. This is OpenAI. We're doing OpenAI. This is the greatest thing I've ever seen.

1:00:04We have to do it, have to do it, have to do And so that was our first, this is the one we're going to go after. But then we visualized that when we first started investing, Ashton and I, it was when the iPhone and the App Store were happening. And so for the first time ever, you can scale companies like never before. And I think anyone would have done well at that time. We were like lucky people that came in at the right time and were looking at the right time and started our fund at that very moment, which is crazy. And so we had this incredible success because of that. I saw it again. Back to pattern recognition.

1:00:49If you fast forward, we're still using Uber and Airbnb and Spotify. We're still using those things from that time period. And we felt that this is it. these foundational AI models in 10 or 15 years will be how we plug into all these things. So we really felt like we had a three-month window. We told people we have a three-month window. Now, it came out November 30th, 2022. So there's not much you can do. People are going away. There's Christmas time break, blah, blah. But as soon as January came, we went out there and told people, this is the vision. We're going to do a foundational AI model fund.

1:01:28I got it. LPS. Raise money. Raise money and create this fund, which was a crazy idea at the time.

1:01:33Tim Ferriss:Now, had you already confirmed that you'd be able to get allocations or you just had complete confidence? So we, Ashton spoke to Sam. We were able to get OpenAI. And what happened was, is I'm very close to Mark Benioff and Salesforce Ventures, people don't really understand how smart they are. They don't get all the press on. They are one of the best investors in the world. There's two guys there, John Samarjai and Paul Drews, who were, when I was doing my research, because now I'm on the lookout. What should I know about an AI? Once I find out about something, I just lock in. And I want to know everything about it.

1:02:13As I was doing my research, I was finding out that they were going to do Anthropic. And they were very bullish about it. And I found out from a friend that works with a job hunter kind of people who help find jobs for people. Oh, like headhunters. Headhunters that everyone's going to this company called Anthropic. You know, like people are really going to this Anthropic place and they're not going anywhere else. I'm like, oh, okay, I need to pay attention. So I asked Paul and John, connect me with this founder, Dario. So they connect me with Dario and Nirov. And they come here. They're here right in this room.

1:02:55And that's where we made the deal to invest in Anthropic. So we did a bunch of other companies in that foundational AI fund. It was a three-month window. So it was before a bunch of other things that have come out since. But we set ourselves up for exactly what we did. This is going to be within three months. We're going to deploy 80 % of the money in the next three months. And that's what we did. And that's over three years ago.

1:03:18Tim Ferriss:How did you know the window was going to be so narrow? I imagine, did you get any pushback from LPs when you said we're going to deploy 80 % of this in three months? Well, we didn't have, there was no LPs, meaning that was the pitch. Yeah, yeah. So it wasn't like we raised money. They either bought in or they didn't. Yeah, it wasn't like we raised money and then told them the pitch. It was like, here's the pitch. Here's what we're going to do. There's a window of opportunity here. We think this is the future. And that was it. They had opted in. Yeah, opted in or opted out. We didn't know what we were going to raise.

1:03:47It's just whatever came up is what it was going to be. I was trying to pull from memory, but it looks like sound at this point is at 86 exits and 26 IPOs.

1:03:59Tim Ferriss:That's insane. I mean, that is... It's been fun. you have seemingly different batteries certainly i mean you've got good batteries what is the next five years do you think look like for you i mean is it more of this type of investing what do you see is it switching gears entirely and looking at the prison through a totally different way i mean what is what is next for guy i feel like going back to the core really honing in that antenna for the greatest talent in the world, the greatest ideas in the world. This is an incredible time where people can scale up a company in the quickest ways. And I'm excited about the potential of what's to come.

1:04:46I've already identified three things I want to do today. So I can only imagine what's to come, but it's just really just, I'm okay doing a version of what I've been doing, which is identify great talent and help them. Help them in every which way that I can. Pick the teams that you want to back. I'm feeling pretty good about that. They're just continuing on this best-in-class talent idea. The hard part is for a lot of people is the access. So we're very lucky we have access and we also do the job. We have more than enough proof of people that come through when you work with them. And we're a different kind of investor on the cap table.

1:05:33We're not in the Valley. We're here in Hollywood. And we bring a different dynamic, different, you know, obviously narrative is something that I'm very focused on. Marketing is something I've been doing since I was a teen. And so, you know, marketing, strategy, media, partnerships, narrative, storytelling. Hey, if you want someone like that on your cap table, I might be interesting to you. And hopefully I can be helpful. And that's what I need to find that dynamic of a company that I'm in love with. And hopefully the founder believes that having me would be a great advantage to them.

1:06:07Tim Ferriss:A lot of founders listen to this podcast. Are there any particular things that have your interest right now or types of companies, types of founders, anything that you'd like to sort of make clear to people who are listening or otherwise? Also, where can people learn more about what you're up to? Is there anywhere that you would point them in particular? I'm a generalist. I don't care. That particular AI fund was very specific. And we may have thematic funds from time to time. If an idea comes and you go, you know what, I've got an idea. It's going to be built around this one idea. But usually I'm a generalist.

1:06:44I really like talented people. And in regards to sharing, where can they find out what I'm up to? I'm not really, this is it. As you know, this is my first podcast. And depending on how this goes, could be my last. And if it goes well, maybe one more. Everything has been fine without doing that. People either find us word of mouth through friends or I find them. It's okay. It all works out. I'm not out there yelling, hey, find me 1-800-whatever. It'll work itself out. The right people will find each other.

1:07:17Tim Ferriss:Well, Guy, I mean, we've covered a lot of ground. Is there anything else that you would like to say before we start landing the plane? I'd say that AI and music content. It's on one level exciting that so many people are experimenting, writing songs for the first time, writing beats, creating sounds for the first time. That's pretty exciting. At the same time, the idea that there's companies out there valued at billions of dollars that are built on the top of other people's music where not one artist has ever gotten paid a dollar is not okay. So I don't want to bundle it all up. It all becomes one thing.

1:08:03It's not all one thing. Mikey, he runs Suno. He's a great guy. I mean, great guy. I really like him as a person. But every time I read about the company, and it's now at a$5 billion valuation, and next thing you know, it's at a$10 billion valuation, and it's all built off of the world's music, but yet not one music artist has gotten a dollar. So that's not okay. That has to be fixed. I'm hoping Mikey does the right thing and fixes that, comes up with a system that allows artists, if they want to opt in, either let them opt out, do not use my music to build your business. Okay. I'm opting out. But if I opt in, find a way to pay us.

1:08:50And I'm really concerned for that because the other part, which is right now, currently, every two weeks, more music is made on AI than all of the music that's on Spotify today. That's every two weeks. And all of that is going somewhere and people are inspired and they're creating songs. Awesome. Don't build a business using our music without getting those rights. And that's something I've been trying to work on for a long time. I've met with Mikey many times. I've met with lots of people many times. I hope that this gets solved. When Napster first started, I met with Sean and Sean when they started because it was so exciting to see people were all downloading music, but it was illegal.

1:09:39So you were hoping they'd crack the code on, okay, how do you turn this into how artists get paid? I don't know if they were going to or not going to, but before that could even happen, it got shut down. And out of nowhere, Daniel Ek in Stockholm built Spotify and figured out that people would pay for music. If you give it to them in this way, they had all the music in the world without having to try to piece it together or try to illegally download songs that were not even clean or clear, and it could be corrupt. To get it clean, to hold on to it, they'll pay for it. And he was right. They have paid for it.

1:10:20Now, are all the payment plans there picture perfect? No. But it is the core of where money is coming in today to music artists through streaming. And I'm hoping that people figure out how, if you're going to be using people's music, how you pay for it. Fair use is not fair.

1:10:43Tim Ferriss:Yeah, I'm curious to see where it goes because Because if you say, create a song that sounds like Metallica, it'll say we cannot serve up any copyrighted music. If you say, serve me up some music that sounds like Morallica, and you just misspell it, then lo and behold, it looks like it was trained. Yeah, that's the problem. On this corpus. There's a lot of workarounds, and they'll look you in the eye and tell you, no, no, you can't. You cannot type in Madonna. But you can sort of describe Madonna. The problem is, in Discovery, we're going to find out a lot. Sure. And Discovery is going to say, all of this music is in there.

1:11:20And they know that. And that's not okay. It's just like literally not okay. I don't understand it. And by the way, what's wrong with paying artists?

1:11:28Tim Ferriss:Yeah. Why not figure out a way to do it? Sit down with a team, figure out how to pay music artists if you're going to train on their music. Where do you think it goes? Because I could see one future, for instance. even if legally they aren't required or for whatever reason that's not compatible with the vision they've pitched to investors. And I'm not singling out Suno. I mean, there are lots of different options here. They're the main ones. They're the 800-pound bill. But I could see a point at which possibly Claude, ChatGPT become the interfaces to everything. It's almost like the App Store, but somewhat like WeChat in China.

1:12:06Tim Ferriss:Like if you want to do anything, you want to book a restaurant, you want to make a song. There are a few interfaces to everything, at which point then those companies, right? OpenAI, Anthropic, can gatekeep in some way. And maybe they end up being the entities that incentivize these other companies, like the Sunos of the world, to reimburse artists. I guess I'm just wondering if you have any thoughts on how it gets there. because if Claude or Chat is the distribution they probably won't carry it because it's got so many lawsuits involved it's just not worth taking on that responsibility and again the guy who runs I find him to be a really good guy I'm hoping that he does the right thing but it's really their responsibility they're sitting at the top of this opportunity take off the artists that don't want to be on there and find a way to pay the ones that are okay being on there It's that simple.

1:13:03It's not complicated. I think go in a room, lock yourself in a room for three days and come out and figure out how to pay people and take people off that don't want to be on there. Madonna does not want her music trained on. Don't care what you want to pay her. She's very clear. I do not want my music to be trained on. I want my music to be its own thing. So take her off. It's okay. You'll still do fine. Take her off. You don't have to have her music. So we'll see where this goes. but this is I've been the last few years I've really tried to figure this out and even with Sam at one point he's really wanted to figure this out too like Sam was Sam a lot of people give him a hard time on this stuff but he really did dedicate time to trying to figure out if there was a music thing to do how to do it in a way that supported artists yeah I mean

1:13:53Tim Ferriss:there may be someone who comes along also if it's not you know someone who comes from behind like a next generation Spotify and figures out how to do it Spotify could do it. Yes, more Spotify could do it. Yeah. You mentioned there were three things that you'd like to do today. I'm not going to ask you to name those things. But how did you find those things or how did those things find you? Well, I'm working on this platform that I'm going to announce in a few months that you're part of. It's how we connected you and I. So I'm able to ask investors what companies that they're looking at. And so two of those came from that conversation.

1:14:29Tim Ferriss:That's good information. Yeah. They're like, what are you looking at? What are you liking? And then they tell me and then I go, oh, let me look into it. And some things I just read about, I read every single day. I'm checking things out every single day and I'm making sure I'm not missing an idea or I'm hearing about things. Well, I'm on X a lot. I see a lot of the stuff, a lot of information on X that's flying by. That's sort of my start of information. You mentioned missing BlackBerry and vitamin water. Do you have, and this could go way back in the catalog, could go back to being 10 years old.

1:15:01Tim Ferriss:There's no limitation here. Any favorite failures or parent failures, meaning failures that taught you a lot or that set you up somehow for later success? There's so many. It's endless, endless. One of the things that Ashton was really good about, not looking back like that, he sort of just keeps it moving forward. And I'm always like, I can't believe we're not in that. and I had it and we had it. And he's like, come on, let's go, let's go. He always gives me like, oh gosh, he's going to complain about not being in it again. Here we go again. But what motivates him is he just keeps it moving forward and it's awesome.

1:15:37And what motivates me is like, I'm not going to let that happen again.

1:15:40Tim Ferriss:Looking back, it seems like in some ways, missing hole, missing fill in the blank was almost a prerequisite source of fuel for the things. Yeah, it's scary though. It drove you towards it. It's scary though. Yeah. When you miss it, Ash and I invested in Bitcoin on our own, you know, when it was a$22, when it hit$250, I thought I just made 10 times my money. Yeah. I'm a genius. So I sold then clearly not a genius. So that hurts. And I remember Anthony gentlemen on that wall, Elon invited Anthony from the chili peppers to see SpaceX. Early days. Very early days. And I went with Anthony. I tagged the Long.

1:16:28It's the first time I met Elon. And we went to SpaceX. I was so wowed by the concept that I didn't even pay attention to the business model or what could be the business model. I was like, wow, this guy's building rockets. That moment in time, Anthony and I had the wherewithal. I go back to that time and go, we just had the wherewithal to go, what business model? I didn't even ask those words. I was just you know sometimes I go to shows like I've seen shows where people are so wowed that they're just like they're like this from a show they didn't even take in all the songs they were just like oh my god if you ever look back at the Sex Pistols shows people are just like what?

1:17:07and they're like was I actually there? I think I was more blown away by the concept of what Elon was building that I did not understand that there was a business model and I really wish I just would have asked one more question hey how do you monetize this how does this work can we invest so i have hundreds of those stories but those are two that stand out today i want to talk about the longevity for a second you mentioned

1:17:35Tim Ferriss:and fact i mean if i'm getting this wrong but like the three back-to-back tours with madonna i mean that sounds impossible just from the demands of the physicality of that and she's It's kind of legendary, of course, for her training and endurance and everything else. But for you personally, what were the keys to enduring that and being able to function at a high level for that period of time? I think it's different as the years go by. There was a point around 10 years ago, 11, 12 years ago, where it was a lot for me. I was also changing and growing and having kids. and I was just sort of losing myself because you're going to a different city every other day.

1:18:18And the amount of things you're missing back home, you sort of forget you have a family, you forget that you can go do other things, you forget to call back Stripe, or you forget to, right? All the things, you just forget everything. And then one day your dad calls you and goes, oh, hey, I'm at your house with your kids. And I'm like, oh, I have kids? I have that house? So if you look at the first three tours, those three tours that I did, those are 240 shows. 80 average. I missed three of those shows. Three out of the 240. One, I was sick. And then I missed two because it was my 40th birthday.

1:18:53And I really didn't feel like being in Seattle that day. I wanted to be home with my friends. So my 40th birthday spent here in this house. So I missed three shows out of 240. But we're talking about a different city, a different hotel, a different... In order to move along, you sort of have to block everything else out. you have to forget and it's a very selfish very for me otherwise if you think about if you're every day you're thinking about you know back home or your family or other things it hurts so I just go okay I'm off and I'll see you I bet it's what actors do when they go away and make a movie for three months and then they come back they probably just compartmentalize a little bit but you know in the last few years I've stopped doing as much I still go but not as much I've went it down there was a moment there where I managed the Red Hot Chili Peppers U2 and Madonna and it was, they're all going on tour.

1:19:42It was a lot to process.

1:19:45Tim Ferriss:How do you even make decisions about where to be in a case like that? You can't be in three places at once. It's hard, but it sort of tells its own story. You know, you're not going to miss New York. You're not going to miss London. You're not going to miss some of the major moments. And then you look at the calendar and go, oh, we have this time off. Let's go to New Zealand with Madonna or let's go to so-and-so with you too or let's go to so-and-so with the peppers. and you find your way around it. You just make it work. So if you look at, let's just say the last 10 years, and presumably a lot of your focus is on the investing, how do you mind the different responsibilities?

1:20:24Tim Ferriss:Does that make sense? When I think of responsibilities, I think of management. That's a really big responsibility and I don't take it lightly. There's no way around it. Something's going on there. It's a focus. It is cyclical. So, like, the Peppers are not touring this year. They don't have an album this year. They aren't touring next year. They don't have an album next year. So, you know, there's a lot of time in between where they're coming up with the creative. They're going to make an album. They're going to do all the things. They're going to write songs. So, that takes time. So, you get these windows of opportunity where you go all in and you get windows of opportunity where you have a moment to breathe.

1:21:02Just like they do. They all need it, too. Madonna, after this cycle, will probably need a minute to just sort of catch her breath and figure out what she does next. So these are cyclical things. What I don't do is I'm not out there trying to sign 10 more bands or 10 more artists. So that's where the balance comes in, which is continually be creative through other ways. When the cycle starts, my creativity has never stopped so that I still have those things. I'm not starting from scratch. I'm always looking and meeting with people and understanding what's going on in technology. And so when Madonna comes back into cycle, I can bring some of those ideas or some of those new relationships I met while she was off.

1:21:42I found a way to make it work.

1:21:44Tim Ferriss:And maybe I'm sure misquoting, but roughly paraphrasing much earlier in the conversation, I feel like you said part of Madonna's ability to reinvent was not resting on her laurels, obviously, but not patting herself on the back for what she's done and sort of marching forward. and I'm wondering how you've thought about for yourself the drive and velocity of forward-looking achievement versus sort of appreciating what has been done or savoring the time that you have. I mean, I imagine you get a lot of that with congregating friends and so on, but I'm wondering if you have any thoughts. You know, my friends and I don't spend a lot of time talking about what I do.

1:22:33A little bit. I share with them so they're in the know. We don't spend a lot of time on it. We don't work together on these deals. My wife and I don't talk about work much. I think I just keep it moving too. And again, when you look back 36 years, it's probably Madonna that is responsible for how I also think of just keep it moving forward, keep it moving forward. And And maybe one day, sometimes when I'm telling my kids a story about the past or someone asks me a question and I tell them about the past, I go, oh my God, I forgot I even did all those things. Or I see something pop up and I go, oh, I was there for that.

1:23:10And I don't think about it that much. Things pop up every now and then. But when I wake up tomorrow, I'm like, I haven't done anything today. I better figure it out. I need to step my game up. That's how I feel. I don't feel accomplished. I feel like I still have so much to prove and so much to do. But at the same time, I do know if I really took a minute, I go, oh, wow, okay. I should probably take a moment and take that in. But I really don't.

1:23:36Tim Ferriss:Is that okay? Is that a problem? Is it fine? I just keep it moving. I don't know. At some point, I can visualize being on the beach and high-fiving with my friends and having fun. But again, they don't do it either. A lot of my friends, we don't talk about it like that either. I mean, I think we just sort of, how cool that we're survived this period of time. How cool is it that we're even able to do what we love? Waking up and being able to do what you love. There's a Josh Kushner quote that I love that he says about success. He says, Tim, success is being excited to go to work and also being excited to go home.

1:24:15And I got that. I'm excited to go to work and I'm excited to go home. That's pretty cool. You know, not a lot of people get to do that. And I don't take that for granted. And I work hard because of that. Because I go, this is not a given. It's not a given. The potential and opportunities. And I'm trying to bring in other friends and other people into my world to say, plug into this. Let's help you figure this out. I'm not just doing it for myself. You should use what I have. You should meet some of these people. You should come to this event. You should go to this. So I like sharing that.

1:24:45Tim Ferriss:So after 20 years, you and Ashton are going to be doing different things, it sounds like. And I was wondering if you could just share a bit of the background and what that looks like. We've had an incredible run. And this AI fund is, I don't know what to compare it to other than winning the Super Bowl for what we do. Right. And between the investments in opening Ionthropic, and we also did SPBs the whole way up, a lot. So we're really fortunate and blessed. And after 20 years, Ash and I asked the question of, now that we've done that and we've hit it out of the park, what are we going to get enjoyment out of doing?

1:25:25And so it's a really strong question. And we all gave it some thought. This was a few months ago. We looked at each other's visions of what they want, what he wanted to do that would make him happy and what he wanted to build and what I wanted to do. And we have a third partner. Her name's Effie. and what she wanted to do. And it turned out that we had different visions. And when you look at his vision, which he will share at some point, so I'm not going to share any of it, it's a pretty awesome vision. It's an incredible vision. And the guy is mind-blowingly smart and talented. And I support that vision for him.

1:26:07It isn't my vision. And I will support it financially. And I will support it with energy. I want him to win. and I have mine, which is the things that we're talking about today and the things that I want to build. And I have a version of the things I want to do that I haven't shared with everyone in full, but it turned out that we just have, it's a new chapter. And I've had many new chapters my whole life. The record label for a certain amount of time. And then I moved on. I went to music management. I went to crypto and I went to film. I have so many different chapters in my life that this is a beautiful chapter that we're in a celebratory mode.

1:26:45So we're sort of hoping to be on the beach, high-fiving each other at some point on the work that we've done and have worked hard to get here and taken a lot of risks and a lot of chances and put in our own money. And this decision was made out of joy and to support each other's visions. There are going to be times where we'll cross over and we'll work on things together because we do have some crossover of things that are part of things we both like. But he's very specific on what he wants to do. I'm very specific on what I want to do. Effie and I are going to continue on with sound and what we've built the last 10 years with sound.

1:27:20So we'll continue to build that. And then we've got some surprises of how we want to build that out too. It's all really good. It's all very supportive. It's just another chapter.

1:27:30Tim Ferriss:Cool. Guy, this has been a wide-ranging conversation. What a life. What a journey. and it's not over, obviously. You've got lots of battery left for what's ahead. Thank you for the time. Thank you. Thanks for inviting me here. My first podcast. I know. I know. Mine too. Your first podcast with me. Exactly. And people can find you on Instagram, x, at guyoseary, no apostrophe, guy, O-S-E-A-R-Y. and we will link to everything in the show notes as per usual at tim.blog slash podcast. And until next time, everybody, thanks for tuning in. Be just a bit kinder than is necessary to others, but also to yourself.

1:28:18Tim Ferriss:Compassion is not complete if it doesn't include you. Thank you, Jack Kornfield. And as always, thanks for tuning in. Thanks, Guy. Thank you. Hey guys, this is Tim again. Just one more thing before you take off and that is Five Bullet Friday. Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little fun before the weekend? Between one and a half and two million people subscribe to my free newsletter, my super short newsletter called Five Bullet Friday. Easy to sign up, easy to cancel. It is basically a half page that I send out every Friday to share the coolest things I've found or discovered or have started exploring over that week.

1:28:55Tim Ferriss:It's kind of like my diary of cool things. It often includes articles I'm reading, books I'm reading, albums, perhaps, gadgets, gizmos, all sorts of tech tricks and so on that get sent to me by my friends, including a lot of podcast guests. And these strange esoteric things end up in my field, and then I test them, and then I share them with you. So if that sounds fun, again, it's very short, a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend, something to think about. If you'd like to try it out, just go to tim.blog.com. Type that into your browser, tim.blog.com. Drop in your email and you'll get the very next one.

1:29:33Tim Ferriss:Thanks for listening. Back in the day, this was 2004 maybe, I had someone approach me in a coffee shop and say, G'day, mate, and introduce himself. Who was that? It turned out to be founder of AG1. Believe it or not, way back in the day. And people often ask me, what has survived after 20 plus years of testing every supplement under the sun? Just about. What actually has stayed in the rotation, in the toolbox? This episode's sponsor, AG1, is at the top of that very, very short list. I started using it close to 15 years ago when it was still called Athletic Greens. I put it in the four-hour body, didn't get paid to put it in there, and it's outlasted almost everything else that I've tried.

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