Morning Breath Energy with Chris Appleton: Thursday, January 22nd, 2026

22:58it's more like and I feel really bad saying anything about this because your texts have been so nice in their intent but your last few it's felt like I was reading a mass corporate email sent to 200 employees and it feels awful to be in any way critical of you of any way to be critical in to be in any way critical of any way you process what you've been going through but I just kind of miss my funny dark normal speaking friend who talks to me as herself and I know you feel attacked from all sides for ridiculous reasons so you're feeling like you have to overly explain things, but it's me. That's just caused a little distance and you don't need to apologize.

23:30Just come back, please. Okay. Like to be honest, that is like such a nice text message because I'm sure she was insufferable. I think everybody can relate to a saga where like your friend is really in something and like you're helping them along with it. It does get exhausting. Like, and I'm sure Taylor never would have said anything if Blake didn't just outright ask. So I actually appreciate her honesty and I think she delivered it in a really kind of lovely way. the fact that we are reading this but it makes me feel better that you said that Blake put forth these text messages yes that's what I read this morning so like please if I'm wrong I can't I'm not going to be right about everything from what I just read that's what it sounded like it was her filing yes and it's all meant to prove and support her case of whatever she's pleading to the court it's just crazy and I imagine any shred of hope that her relationship with Taylor would be irreparable Her supplying these messages to the court for public consumption.

24:28Taylor, it's an unforgivable thing. But also sexual harassment. Yes. Right. Sexual harassment. Yeah. So then. But it's also she's being sued. She's suing. Yeah. He's claiming he took over. They took over the movie like it was a small country. Like, yeah. So she responded by saying she's become digitally paranoid. so that sort of like clues you into the fact that she probably not probably but thought maybe one day someone would be reading these text messages and so maybe they're a little bit more tailored than they would have been she said so yeah I've been texting like I'm writing not like me talking I didn't realize that until you pointed it out but I see it on top of that I'm over packaging simple things because I felt so deeply and misunderstood that I don't trust my judgment of myself anymore this fucking guy and what he did to me gave me an identity crisis legitimately she then said the thing that spooked me most in all of this though wasn't the bad guys being bad guys it was the good guys my lifelong friends quote tilda yeah allies to women it's getting like spongebob to women who quietly dipped and so i'm probably being over the top with my friends who stayed because i've never felt more alone she then thanked taylor and apologized no you to me and to our kids fuck that guy and fuck his whole gaggle of super villains no i know this exchange took place i keep wanting to know three days before taylor wrapped her tour yes they had just we've even spotted out together so there was no when was that when they were at corner store right when did she wrap her tour in december like i can't remember with international right i'm just like i know we're not supposed to say this but like reading that text message is like really made me feel bad for blake like i know whatever you want to believe like it's just pathetic like it really is and like this is like her one remaining friend and they're not even friends anymore like it's just i i feel bad i do sorry yeah i feel bad too the text the exchange goes on like it's resolved nicely it's not like they're not fighting they're like really it's such a mature conversation yeah um and they do resolve it being like i'm going to bed but like love you love you here for you like it doesn't see it obviously it shows cracks in the friendship but this is not where it ended but what does it prove in blake's case i have no fucking idea like we need a documentary not that i want more of this but i do need someone to spell it out for me like in an unbiased fashion if that's even possible and then there was also messages released between Jamil and Jamil.

26:47Not Jamil and Jamil getting called. And so she's Team Baldoni. Yeah, she called Blake a suicide bomber. They're like cackling at all these TikToks that are going around. So it's like, I don't like that. Yeah. And I just am at a place where I find Jamil and Jamil insufferable. So I'm going to be on whatever side she's not on. Right. No, that's what I'm saying. There's players on both sides where it's like, I'm not on any team here because I'm not getting along with all the teammates. Yeah, right. No, it's very confusing. And I'm not aligned. And then people are like freaking about the Ben Affleck email because apparently I didn't know this.

27:17There's like a lot of lore between Ben Affleck and Blake Lively. They filmed a movie together called The Town. She was with Penn Badgley. He was married to Jen Affleck. And there were rumors that they hooked up on set. He was married to Jen Affleck.

27:31Yeah. Jennifer Gardner. What was wrong with what I said? No, no. Her name was Jenna. Like they were married to Jen Affleck. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was married to Jennifer Gardner. there were rumors and then like right after those rumors came out he was spotted walking with jen affleck with a black eye like so it's like funny um lore but apparently they're on great terms enough that she could ask for him to take a look at her edit yeah and those emails were also very over the top i wound up reading them that's so like don't you see her talking like that is but i also can imagine if you're her friend and she wasn't always that formal and now she's talking like this because she's just like scared dotting her eyes crossing her t's like everything it's a lot no it's insufferable like to be with a friend who's going through this like enormous thing and you want to be there for them but it can be very draining yeah so i um i relate to taylor people are like freaking that like in her private text messages which she never thought the worst thing she said was like little bitch if the worst thing i said about somebody my like my friend hates ever got leaked you would never fucking see me again i say the most vile shit okay about people that i hate this is taylor's worst most deep evil thought like little bitch girl people are like she's like seriously i feel like she wrote hard for her friend and her friend's enemy like do we not know that about taylor like she loves her friends i don't feel like it was like even remotely bad i'm not understanding like the taylor um people like this makes taylor look so bad i don't think so at all i don't think it makes her look bad at all but i wonder like what became the thing that really ended their friendship because like this is like, you know, we're sort of cooling off and then they do reconcile.

29:06But now they're in a place where they don't like talk. They don't follow. They don't see each other. You know, so something more stuff has happened. And TMZ is saying that Justin Baldoni is now not going to be calling Taylor Swift as a witness. Like everything they've gotten subpoenaed is sufficient. Sufficient for what? I don't fucking know. So that's the latest today and it's not even March yet. I just want to say, I've seen like a lot of people be like, please have a legal expert on like to talk about the Balcona case. I would rather claw my own eyes out than listen to like a lawyer read me these depositions.

29:40I would actually rather be dead. Absolutely not. Are you ready for our next story? More than you even know. Kim Kardashian went on Khloe in Wonderland and talked about a lot of different things. One thing that might have surprised people saying that she still listens to Taylor Swift. Yeah, it feels like she had a couple of things she wanted to clear up. And so she went on a super safe podcast because I found the conversation about North very interesting. I didn't like, you know, people have a lot to say. Every time North is spotted out, she wears like lots of crazy colored hair and piercings and like, you know, spiky chains.

30:16And people are like, what 12 year old is dressing like that? And I think Kim wanted the opportunity to explain. I found that part really interesting just about how she actually lives in a really strict house, but the one area where she lets North just sort of like freeball it as like a creative. is her wardrobe and you know she's the parent of an artist son of an artist like i actually i i really appreciated that insight also like her homeschooling thing sounds crazy yeah she's a brand building class i'm dead yeah she makes hats and sells them right like oh you want to learn about math let's build a business how many hats do you need to sell yeah to make back your money she like goes to fit for fashion camp over the summer like she's very immersed in fashion and that's obviously her creative outlet plus she also produces right and yeah i think uh kim like wanted to explain that as best as she could but also did a good job i thought so too but i also feel like like i never saw what she's doing like she doesn't have to explain it to people yeah um she did talk about their parenting which i found was so interesting they talked a little bit about like their differences in parenting but kim was even talking about her differences in parenting her different children she said like the older two have devices and like she was kind of like learning on the job and now she does different things with the younger two like lessons learned from the older two, which was, I thought, so interesting.

31:24I mean, I imagine a huge lesson learned with that Roblox thing. Yeah, now the younger two don't have devices, even though Saint and North had them at those ages. I think Chloe is the strictest parent. Yeah. Well, then Kim Clarke, she's just very scheduled and regimented. But as far as discipline, they didn't really touch on that. It's a very hot button issue. And the one time they did touch on it, when Corey wanted to smack one of Scott's kids, it was a really uncomfortable situation. Yeah, but there are other forms of discipline, you know, like boundaries. Without smacking, yeah. So it would have been interesting to hear more.

31:57I love when people talk about parenting. We've been talking about like parenting styles a lot. But then Chloe also says her kids are still little comparatively. So it's like she hasn't had to like make these big decisions yet about them. Did you feel like the format of the episode was just like a little weird? How Chloe just opened up with like rapid fire? That's like a game you do at the end. Yes, I did. And I imagine it's like difficult for Chloe when she's interviewing her family where it's like she knows everything about them. So to ask questions as if she's someone who doesn't is kind of difficult.

32:24So she's trying to ask like fresh questions for the audience. She wants her sisters to be comfortable, but it's kind of hard to know where to kick off. So it more so felt like she was there a couple of stories that she feels like her sister should tell. And so she's prompting them to get them to tell those stories. There were moments where like it flowed better and it was really enjoyable. But then other times it felt very like next question. The podcast is very relaxing. Like visually, it's really aesthetic, very neutral tones. They both, the Kardashians are often accused of like being monotone and they are like soft speakers.

32:54So when the conversation wasn't like so titillating, I did find it boring just because it's meant to like lull you to sleep. I'm in Wonderland. Like it felt like a dreamlike state. Yeah. There's a part two coming out that's meant to be like even juicier. But a couple of things that they talked about, they talked about the elephant Birkin. Kim wanted to clear up the elephant Birkin. She said it was fake, that it was from the set of All's Fair. What's the elephant Birkin saga? Please remind me. told me about it she was spotted wearing an elephant birkin which is like a birkin made out of an elephant yeah from the 80s and it's like an elephant which is like i mean i guess it's not like freshly made they obviously don't do that anymore like but she said that she no longer wears furs that aren't vintage she won't buy new fur ellen degenerates like converted her and like spoke to her about it and so ellen messaged her about the elephant birkin was like what is this and kim said it's fake and kim said it's fake because on the set of all's fair she would bring some of her birkins but they also had some so she would like pick one up what is she doing with a fake Birkin.

33:48She shouldn't have admitted that because now it's like, well, which of your other bags are fake? I thought that was so odd. Then they did a segment about Kardashian closet explaining how it's a... They are so passionate about clearing the name of Kardashian closet because they did a whole thing on it on the season and I feel like that put it to bed for me. It did. And they did it again on the episode. I was like, I just watched this on the season. Except I would have loved if the Kardashians had a thrift store called Poor Little Rich Girl and you could go thrifting through the Kardashians closet.

34:14It's like a physical store. that's what it was supposed to be before Kardashian closet. But like it would be in LA and we would never go now. Kardashian closet. Anyone can buy from there. She said consignment stores buy from there like collectors. Like it actually is a really great project and it's great for CC. But I felt like that that had been thoroughly covered. It didn't bear repeating. So there wasn't like a lot of new tea. Except the Taylor. Except the Taylor. But we knew that. Yes. And it's just the same sort of tone from Kim. When Kim the last time she was asked about this was literally watch what happens live.

34:42Plead the fifth. And he was like where are you at? with Taylor Swift and the beef and she was like over it, over it. Like very flippant about the whole situation, which is easy to have that tone about it when you weren't the injured party because that is so not like Taylor's. Taylor fucking hates Kim. She's still writing songs about her. Like it's her Roman empire. It's the worst thing that ever happened to her. It's what Blake is referring to when she's talking about when you went through your thing. Like it is an unfair. And Kim is like, yeah, I'm over it. Like how nice for you. But she also listens to the old music.

35:14She made sure to say that. So like I feel like the new music is literally about her. What is she going to be listening to? What's the one? Thank you, Amy. Thank you, Amy. So yeah, she says it's on her playlists. And I feel like they think that like that's juicy. But like we didn't know that already. I guess we just like know everything. It's also almost impossible to not listen to Taylor Swift. Do you know what I mean? Like it's so embedded in, especially she has kids. Shake It Off is fucking, I hear it everywhere now. Like it's almost impossible to avoid the music. And I'm sure it's harder to avoid the music.

35:42I'm dying to know if any of those kids went to the art store in a secret suite or whatever. Yeah. They also called Jonathan in the middle of the show. Yeah. I guess people thought they're not friends anymore. I kind of haven't thought about them as a duo in a while. I might have thought the same. But they're good? Yeah, they're great. He was in Miami. He was talking about Chris's party. Kim was saying that they're not throwing a party like that again for a while because it was very expensive. The 70th. Yeah, of Chris. So it was, yeah, it was really relaxing. I would have liked for her to talk about like that Meghan Markle photo thing.

36:16Well, she did say, should we talk about the party crasher? And then like they were in the middle of conversation and that was it. Excuse me, rewind. Yeah. But wouldn't she have said party crashers if the both of them? Perhaps. Perhaps. But I felt like, yeah, and honestly, like that's a shit we want to hear about. And Kim said at the very beginning, she said, I knew I was going to do Chloe's podcast, but we were only going to do it if we could make it really juicy. And I'm sorry, like, it is a public service. You need to tell us what the fuck happened with those pictures. It's true. So she said the second part, I mean, that's how you tease the part.

36:49Of course. That's going to be like more juice. So we'll see. But that's like, that's what we need to know. Yeah. There were like a couple of questions. Like I actually was just like, I've always been randomly curious about like, what is Kim's natural hair? She was like, anytime you see me in a bun, like that's my natural hair. But she said the length is like what Chloe's was, which is like here. Yeah. Like, and also that she does stem cell injections. She does everything. To keep her hair growth. Yeah. Because she's had a journey. Yeah. And I think when you get your glam done so much, it's when you bleach your hair, when you have extensions, when you have wigs, like I think a lot of celebrities have like three strands of hair.

37:19Yeah. Just from like the wear and tear over the years. Yeah. So she does stem cell injections in addition to like the supplements and the serums and things. Yeah. That was interesting. Yeah. But it was really just pargy content. Yeah, it was. It was like, give us more of that. I love. And then I started watching Kylie's a little bit because it came on after. This is why the Kardashians for a while have needed an in-house podcast. I know like it took Chloe a long time to be able to like do anything public facing without like having an anxiety attack. So I'm respectful of that. But they needed this a while ago because anytime there's like something to talk about.

37:50Like remember when Kim needed to address Balenciaga and she had on that really random podcast just because it was like a safe thing where she could say her piece. Like they have needed this for a while. Yeah, but they didn't even approach it in that way. I guess like she talked about North and the Elephant Bergen, which were like two things that were going on. Oh, she talked. They also talked a lot about AI content about them. Oh. Like how you see those AI photos of Chloe and Victor Webin Yama walking on the beach. So they talked about that. When Luca Donchus was traded to the Lakers, there was like a fake comment from Kim being like, guess I need to learn Slovenian.

38:21I'm cracking up. And then there was a comment from Luca, which no one knows if it was fake or not, being like, no, you don't. But Kim's comment was real? No, she said no, it was not real. So it's just like so awkward. And that shit's so annoying. like it's so annoying and then there was something else that was fake that they wanted to address so like they were talking about all this stuff that's like like that aren't like the real things that people talk about but I guess sort of funny yeah like and also the elephant bergen like she felt like she wanted to address that oh the question from chloe which was like did you ever feel like there was something that your career like would not come back from and kim was like a million times but she talked about the divorce again which chris humphries oh no funny how that's like with for me I feel like that was the like I the like first time we ever doubted them yes but now in hindsight like it's it's interesting that she still like thinks about that I think that was a really scary time because she wasn't as big as she is now and like she had like the like now there's really nothing they couldn't come back from right because they're just like bigger than novas but at the time it was a really big deal and it was devastating for her fans yeah yeah because we really shipped them we felt like we got played especially you remember that big drama where there was like a scene in Kardashians that was filmed totally later and cut in to make it look like Kim was always having doubts.

39:35It was like a fake scene where they like blacked out the car was so obvious. So we really felt like we were being duped by people who were supposed to be the opposite of that. Yeah. And it's not like I felt like the marriage was a lie or it was fake. It just felt all very like sort of careless. And he was a nice boy. Obviously, like, you know, in the reality show that he was brand new on, he didn't say and do everything right. But I do believe he was like a nice boy whose life they really effectively ruined. Yeah. So I think she's justice to that sister. She's right to see that time as like the most precarious in her career.

40:07Yes. So it was, yeah, interesting. But there's also so much more they could touch on. So I'm excited for part two. Yeah. Next story is actually going to be a half story. It's going to be some movie news. I like that. Subset A is Oscar nominations dropped today. Sinners leads with 16 nominations. and then one battle after another follows with 13. I feel like I don't care about the Oscars. Like I know I said I was going to try and watch the movies, but they all look more dreadful than the other. There's like a couple big headlines. Timothy was nominated, which is just great. Kylie will most likely.

40:38Few for the Kylie stans. And it's really looking like, I don't know what Polly Market is saying, but he definitely has a really high chance of winning. He has won almost every award in this circuit until this point. And he's up against Leo, Ethan Hawke in Blue Moon, Michael B. Jordan in Sinners, and Wagner Mora in The Secret Agent. You know, the greats. It must be very humbling for him. Well, Wagner Mora won that other category at the Golden Globes. Oh, right. Because now it's a consolidation. It's literally Timothy versus Wagner. Timothy v. Wagner. So it'll probably go to Ethan Hawke. I will quite literally only be tuning in for Kylie.

41:12So if the Oscars knows what the fuck is good for them, they will let Timothy win. It's just like, I need to see that movie. I've heard it was amazing. Kate Hudson is nominated. For Blue Song Bird Blue? Blue Song Bird Blue. That's major. Good for her. I love Kate Hudson. Like, actually, I don't know if there are a lot of people in Hollywood I could not say one negative thing about. Like, there's nothing about Kate Hudson's career, personal life, style that I don't like. Yeah. Running point was great. No big scandal. Yeah. She must sleep. That's why she's like her skin is so clear. Like, she just sleeps well.

41:42Restful eight hours. She was born wealthy. She never had to worry about money. Deep REM. But turned out well. Yeah. Despite the odds being stacked against her. Yeah. She's a queen for that. And now she's an Oscar nominated queen. And then the other big news is that Wicked was completely snubbed. No Ariana, no Cynthia. Like, do you even go? I don't think the movie was nominated for any category. It might have been nominated for like music. No. No. Their original songs were left out of the original song category. Not that I have a lot against Wicked. I have a couple of things. But I kind of just like love the drama of that.

42:17No, I like that they, I hate when people so obviously do things like for a reason. And them making two movies was just like a money grab. And them creating really bad original music for the second movie was to get an Oscar nomination. And so when you try really hard to get something and you don't get it, ha ha. Wait, so they won't even go. Why would they go? Unless it's like as a presenter. But no, do you get invited? I mean, of course, Ariana and Cynthia can go wherever they want. But like if they wanted to go, I'm sure they could sneak an invite. But they shouldn't go because they've been like thoroughly snubbed.

42:48Best original song, Dear Me from Diane Warren. Relentless Give it to Diane Warren Has she still not won? I don't think she's won What is it like 60 nominations? But like Golden is nominated From K-pop Demon Hunter We're going up Up up It's our moment You know together we're glowing Gonna be gonna be golden Give it to them Like seriously give it to them That was the song of the year From the movie of the year I lied to you from Sinners Like those people Whoever is nominated for Golden Like will most likely I don't think you can win the Tony But they'll be EGOTs They'll win a Grammy for it Yeah And not an Emmy.

43:22Sorry. Okay, so there'll be a go. Grammy. Oscar. Okay, yeah. But they seem very talented and they can go on to win Emmys and Tonys. Sweet Dreams from Viva Verde and Train Dreams. So obviously Golden should win. And if Golden doesn't win because they just like to be different, I vote Diane Warren. Me too. Like seriously, she is Leonardo DiCaprio of the musical industry and she deserves her flowers. Yeah. Oh, I guess Miley didn't get nominated. She did a song for Avatar. That's messed up stuff. So yeah, Oscars. Looking forward to seeing Kylie there. Yeah. Some more movie news is Sydney Sweeney will star in an Edith Wharton adaptation, Custom of the Country.

44:04Just when you think you know Sydney Sweeney, she's being an OnlyFans model on Euphoria, and then she's being like a lesbian boxer. Here she is being a socialite in the Gilded Age. Name Yundin Sprague. She's so Yundin. There is actually an interesting backstory behind this. It was originally greenlit as a TV show on Apple starring Florence Pugh. But Apple, I think, thought it was going to be too expensive. And it's quite literally the Gilded Age. Like, they already did it. No one's going to do it better than Julian Fellows. And it got canceled. And now it's being, like, repurposed in a movie form.

44:37Honestly, it has all the making. So it's called Custom of the Country. It is... She's trying to, like... She's, like, this ne 'er-do-well who's trying to crack into high society. Yes, she's an ambitious Midwest woman who attempts to ascend the social ladder in the turn of the century New York, Gilded Age, as described in the official press release. Undine Sprague is armed with beauty, daring hustle and sheer force of will and unwavering ambition. She battles an entrenched elite, fearlessly courting controversy until love and fortune align. Now, I haven't seen The Housemaid, so I'm like a little behind.

45:08But I just haven't quite figured out yet if Sidney Sweeney is a terrible actress. Because when I watched her in Euphoria, I was dazzled. I was like, oh my God, she is the talent of our generation. And then I watched her in Anyone But You and I said, how did this girl get out of community theater? Like it was shocking to see. I do believe those are the only things I've seen her in. So like I don't know where I personally landed in her acting ability. The White Lotus, she was like. Oh, she was great. Yeah, she was great. But that's like, no offense, like an easy job to like sit on a beach and be a bitch.

45:36That's how I also feel about Euphoria. Like she's just this like young girl playing a young girl, like a modern. I think playing on Dean Sprague will be really telling. Yeah. yeah um and if she can like transport us and it just doesn't feel like we're watching sydney sweeney in the like a petticoat yeah right like i if she's like it's gonna either be like a dazzling performance or like a live action role play yeah of her like doing a civil war reenactment but it sounds really good and i i'll be sad yeah i do think people are like hyper fixated on this era in new york because the gilded age apparently turned out to be an amazing show when i was watching i hated it i don't think it turned out to be an amazing show because people were saying it was amazing even during the things we didn't like.

46:14Well, like Stassi says, it's so good. It's like her whole personality. But she was saying that season one. Yeah. So she just liked it. Season one was fine. Like it took a couple of episodes to be better, but it was fine. They really lost me on the second season. I couldn't even finish it. I don't know if I watched the second season. People say it's so good, Jackie, though. Like, do we give it another chance? Maybe I would give it. I have a lot on my plate right now. I'm like behind on a couple of things. Maybe I would give it another chance, but I don't know, maybe because I'm a history major with a concentration in that time.

46:43For sure. I feel very close to it. Well, as a media major, I find media fascinating. No, you don't. Like I did take a course on New York. And of course, as someone who watched the Ken Burns documentary, I feel very close. I imagine actually that whilst making this project, like leading up to it, Julian Fellows probably did watch the Ken Burns documentary and like maybe took a course. So I think that like you're good. We're on the same level. Yeah, yeah. I just would have done something different. Of course, of course. Are you ready for our For the Mental Story? Like I wouldn't have cast Cynthia Nixon, I'll tell you that.

47:13Oh, hell no. But that. She's a real modern woman. Like, I'm sorry. She, it's a blessing and a curse to be like such a famous actress for one particular thing. To be so recognizable. Because I'm like, what the hell is Miranda doing in the 16th century? Or whatever. I actually would have cleared the decks on the cast. I really don't feel like anyone was well cast. Except for Christine Przanski. Carrie Coon? No. Who plays the Russell? No. Oh, she's excellent. The other auntie. Oh, slay the house down boots auntie. I love her. Who plays Cynthia's sister. Yep. And the dog, Pumpkin. Marianne, she sucks.

47:48Gloria, like, no, she's supposed to be Gloria Vanderbilt. What's the daughter's name of Carrie Coon? She sucks too. She's supposed to be Consuelo. Yeah, sorry. Thank you. And the husband of Carrie Coon. Get out of here. Russell. I think they're the Russell family. Oh, yeah, because why would they call him by his first name? Mrs. Russell. You're wrong. She's amazing. I disagree. But it's also because of the accent of the time, that like transatlantic accent. Like just we're so not used to it. It's like it's extinct. So it just sounds funny to us. Yes. Yes. But at least it's historically accurate.

48:22Yeah. Yeah. No. But no, I disagree on her. She would go with the rest of it. No, you're wrong. Fifth and final story. We'll lean into TV recap. Tell Me Lies. So inside the love lives of the Tell Me Lies cast. This week we found out of two new couplings from the Tell Me Lies cast. So we have, we know, Stephen and Lucy are dating in real life. Pippa and Wrigley are dating in real life. And Evan and Molly are dating in real life. Okay. These two. By the way, who the fuck is Molly? Like, so last season he tried to, he tried to rebound with Bree. So she's like a rando, right? Yeah. She always really liked him.

49:00He like gave her the time of day when like Bree was moving on, but he was always like hung up on Bree. So it obviously didn't work out because she wanted something more serious and he wanted Bree. So they broke up. But now this season she's like, oh, I can do casual. Right, right, right. But she's obviously not doing casual. She's such a fucking bitch for telling them about Diana. Like I, oh, sorry. Spoiler start now. Yeah. Tell me lies recap starts now. I hate her. Like seriously hate. She was like stupid in the way that she went about it. But nothing about the way that Diana shared the information with her was like proprietary.

49:29She's like talking on the steps. No, she's being very casual about the whole thing. Very flippant. She never said like, obviously that's not something you should share. But she never said like, please don't tell anyone. I feel like that girl only said it because she wants Evan to like her. She knew it would be a valuable asset. 1 ,000%. But Diana is a very smart person. So to tell the person who wants to be in Evan's good favor when Evan is best friends and partially living with Steven, that's going to get around. Now, I know that Steven has been evil since the first episode. But something about this season is highly elevated.

49:58He's literally like... Diabolical. It's actually painful to watch. I had to watch all the... I watched three out of four episodes last night. Like it left me feeling like very emotionally tired. I am looking forward to watching one episode a week. It is a lot like him, like in that tunnel filming a video, like a Hamas terrorist, like was so distressing. And it's just like, he's an amazing actor and it's such a terrible character. I'm having a really hard time watching it, him specifically. And I'm enjoying the show so much outside of Lucy and Steven. They've really like built all the characters.

50:30I love Brie. Like Brie is my girl. She's so cute. What is that cocktail? haircut they gave her it's fucking horrible she got that haircut in the offseason so they made it work big mistake huge put an extension in like she looks horrible when they go flashing back to the wedding it's like better but she looks like she's in the 90s like it looks like a haircut for a 90s show starring a boy like she looks terrible i hate the hair brie and wrigley like just wore my heart especially because like peppa like peppa peppa like only likes wrigley as a friend now so it's like Pippa would be so happy for them.

51:04Like they're so happy together. Diana's my favorite person on this show. She is a queen. She's such a queen. And so I'm happy like to see her happy with Pippa. And like everything like works out nicely. For everyone except for Wrigley and Brie. Well, in the future, of course. But no, like if everyone. If they break up, like it's okay. Pippa feels like she can't break up with him because he's like on suicidal alert for his brother. She doesn't know that like he has his eye on Brie. And he's like, he's doing well. Yeah. He's thriving. And you know, she was really there for him. Like she's a good.

51:31She's a good friend. they are friends. I feel like when they started the show and we were at the wedding and like we only know Lucy and like Pippa's this like curmudgeon-y like Svabicina I'm like I was like hating her but I love her. She's like a good friend and she's a good person. The Chris McMillan stuff what's his name? Chris the brother Lydia's yeah Chris yeah oh my god it gives me such a pit such a bad situation Lucy has found herself in. It really is but she does keep making it worse because she could have said in that meeting she could like if she had said in that she told the truth like oh it didn't when I said that it didn't happen to me but it did happen to my friend so I just wanted to corroborate your story without like throwing my friend under the bus because she's not ready to talk about it please leave me alone yeah like that would have been that in terms of like Katie looking to Lucy and also the dean keeping calling her in and yeah it's not a good thing to do but she wouldn't have been like kicked out of school for it I just want to say if only like school administrators were so like um crossing their eyes and doubting their t's on like campus rape it's like impossible to get arrested if you Well you're seeing that with Katie Because she did make an allegation Right But she didn't have enough proof Right but I just would have a hard time That like Especially in like 2009 Like all these administrators Were like doing what they Like doing their most Yeah So she keeps making it worse for herself And obviously How does she not see that Stephen's behind this That Stephen Lucy That Stephen made Yeah of course Yeah He's building it up So that he can then post the video If he posted it right now Like He's making her sick with it I love the drug dealer And I want him to end up I don't love the drug dealer With Brie But it's like brother sister But it's not Like I just It was giving like a book I feel like I've read a book Where like two foster kids Like met in this terrible house And ended up like falling in love Or whatever Yeah I'm not loving the drug dealer And like it seems like Lucy's going down a dark path now But isn't it like A dark path of forgiveness Like I was Right Well you like to be Beat into submission So let me like Beat forgiveness and love into you Is that what's going on?

53:22Um Sort of It's like a humiliation ritual Also To make her a better person I'm confused Right But also at the wedding, they keep referencing what Steven did to you sophomore year. And I feel like that's what's coming in terms of the video. And I feel like she's going to start self-harming because the thing with the burn on her leg, like it just felt like that was random. It felt like a foreshadow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she's also like seeking out like more aggressive partners. And so I feel like she's going to get into a very dark place of like self-harm and self-loathing that Steven brought her to.

53:54and that's what they keep talking about at the wedding, what Steven did to you sophomore year. Also, last season at the wedding, Steven and Lucy fucked. Yeah, like the night before. No, so it's like, it's painful because you're watching this and you think it's like resolved itself by the time of the wedding, but they're still very much in it. And I cannot remember what really went on with that bartender. Max. So the bartender was her date at the wedding, right? Yeah, that's her boyfriend, I think. Until she ditched him and he left, right? Oh, did he? He's not there. He's not there. They need to give us wedding flashbacks as well.

54:20Yeah, I'm pretty sure, like, remember, she brought him... I thought that was her boyfriend. She brought him to the hot tub to have sex with him just so she could like tell Stephen that she had sex with him or Stephen was like right outside and watch the whole thing. I mean, he figured out he was like, you're sick and left. And Lucy, I do not root for Lucy. I do not like Lucy. She has like sweet moments when she's with the girls, but she makes poor choices over and over again. Like even having sex with Stephen at the wedding five years, six years later, like you're grown. You know what you're out of what he did to you.

54:46Sophomore year. Everyone keeps talking about. So they're kind of perfect for each other at this point. They might as well be together and stop ruining other people's lives. When you said last season when we were recapping and I kept thinking about it, it's like Lucy has these huge issues. Like she is caught in these lies, like life ruining stuff. And they would all go away if she just transferred. Right. And I just like need to tell her that. I'm like, girl, switch schools. She does apply for this study abroad program, which of course she's not going to go on. And of course she's late. Does she give a fuck about?

55:20How is she still in school? How is she still in school? She only like she applies herself when it's like convenient. And of course, the administrators like giving her an extension on the application because of the sexual assault thing. They think she was trying to get away from that. And so whenever this video comes out, it's also going to affect her study abroad. Iris Apatow jump scare. What's that? Who's that? Iris Apatow. What did she do? We're going to get there. Ready? Who does she play? Iris Apatow. Yeah, did she come into the show? Yeah. As who? The freshman who's seeing Oliver. Oh, that's Iris Apatow?

55:54Yeah, you didn't recognize her? No. Oh, it's Iris Apatow. I'm more of a mod girl. Wow, she grew up fast. I know. I was like, wait, this girl either really looks like Iris Apatow or she's grown. No, and it's her. Wow, I haven't seen her since this is 40. Literally, I haven't seen her since like Olivia Rodrigo's Instagram. They're best friends. Oh, so she's like a girly. She's like a swirly about town, yeah. Interesting. yeah yeah Brie going to confront Oliver also bad like it's just but you also have to remember like they're college students I know you're like not making the best decisions like it's they're young girls and this group just needs to be disbanded I know but like Brie and and Lucy they're they are playing up the friendship this season but they do have a true friendship and the fact that like Lucy would debase herself to protect Brie's feelings whereas it's sweet um but wrong and misguided because Bri should just know.

56:44I don't, she would obviously, it would affect their friendship. I think they could come back from it. She doesn't even like Evan at that moment. She should have told her earlier before she's like, now she's going back to Evan. Also, like, there are two people who have like successfully untangled themselves from Steven and that's Wrigley and Diana and they are so elevated. Like, when I watch them, I feel peace and I got like, not annoyed, like scared for Diana and she was scared too because she like did get like, now she's you know pregnant she got like wrote back in and it's like girl like i just want her out i want her safe i want her just like free from his grip um and wrigley has reached a state of enlightenment diana was there as well um and i'm just joyful for them really overjoyed and i need everybody to get on their level like i need them to have and you're expecting a lot from college kids these are like borderline teenagers who like our group think so but if they could all just sort of like band together and like just decide to like fuck him yeah it would make me feel a lot better yeah which is why diana like sharing the pregnancy like so publicly and flippantly is in congress with the diana that we know who worked all last semester last semester to affect like to successfully disentangle from steven and make him think it was his idea and now not only like are you very connected to him in this moment you're starting stuff and she told him like i'm actually fine with my dad like wait wait so he's like yeah like all the work you did she showed her hand like that was just not very Diana like.

58:07I know but she's like going through a lot. She's maybe in a state of distress. The hormones you know. She doesn't seem like she's in a state of distress. No that's Diana. She keeps it cool. Yeah. And now she has her lady love. And you know she's religious too in real life. She is? Yeah. I didn't know that. I know when I found that out I was really surprised. But no she has her lady love like every you know she's got her job lined up and her LSAT scores and just triple check. I heard that like a million years ago when I told it to Ben. He's like are you sure? Because she was like, you know, shirt off, like making out on the show.

58:38I'm like, no, I'm pretty sure she's religious. Diana, tell me lies.

58:51Maybe it's someone else from a different perspective. No, I'm right. Hold on.

58:58I think I'm asking a character. Diana Actress.

59:09Alicia Crowder is her name. Mm-hmm.

59:16No, I think I'm making this up. Okay. That's okay. It happens.

59:25I just want to just triple check. Oh, there's Iris Habitow. Yeah, right? Mm-hmm. Where did I hear that? When she's dating Sam Nivola, who's the little brother from White Lotus. And she was dating Joe Alwyn's little brother, Patrick. And that's when she was hanging out with Taylor. She would hang out with Taylor.

59:55cool oh lydia fully made it up lydia lydia okay she fully made that up thank you for clarifying i'm sorry i have to tell them no let him go i was like so excited to tell oh my god he's going to they're gonna have her on so tell us about your faith maybe maybe maybe um so that's your tell me lies recap seriously like the craziest show but very immersive and like very anxiety inducing and pit worthy. Yeah. If you're into that sort of thing. Oh, and Wrigley without his hair is a completely different person. Wrigley is my favorite person on the show. Agreed. Like easily. Yeah. And so what's going to happen with Bree and Evan in the wedding now that, and also Steven, Steven knows.

1:00:43Well, I guess like Steven, like the show can continue now because the show can, like the show thrives when Steven has things on his friends in which to manipulate and hold over their heads and so he was kind of running out yeah and also like i think the show the pat the 2009 will end when they graduate because without like the show is about college steven and lucy um and then they could pick it up with just like 2015 stuff like what happens after but they've said that this is going to be the last season i think the showrunners said that oh and it would be like perfect because they're graduating the older the older ones yeah and you know I didn't go to a real college so I don't know how like the dynamics work but the school does seem very similar to the school that you went to would three freshmen and three juniors at the time like have become like a girl gang like they only hang out with each other the six of them and they're different ages well in the beginning they're all dating each other and at some point one is always dating another it seems like the girls only go to frat parties at their house which is possible.

1:01:45But yes, there are other people at the school. Right. But they seek other friendships. They keep coming back to the three and the three. But I guess someone is always dating someone in that group. So like you are going to always go where your friend's boyfriend is. Yeah. And that's how you're going to start your night. OK. So it's not impossible. But like there are other people. It's a huge school. It seems it's not huge. But like there's definitely other fraternities, other parties that like the girls could go to that the boys can't go to other human beings to interact with. But Lucy does always find someone.

1:02:12The worst person. Yes. But was Leo bad? No, he was sweet. He wasn't bad enough for Lucy. He wasn't bad enough for her. Yeah. Well, that's your Tommy Lies recap. And we are going to turn you over to our guest interview with Chris Appleton, who we were just like truly humbled to be in the presence of. So thank you guys for watching today's episode. I hope you enjoy this fabulous interview that is brought to you by Bear Bells, the protein bar, the only protein bar that I really feel like eating because it's delicious. It's packed with protein. And as you guys know, I'm on my health journey. So are you like one of the many Americans who are making Get More Protein as their New Year's resolution?

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1:07:14Enjoy. Welcome back to The Toast. Today's guest is years in the making here at The Toast. We have Chris Appleton, hairstylist, author, and second time Toast guest. Chris, welcome to The Toast. I'm back. Not only are you back, I am so excited. If you were to say, Claudia, you could have anyone in the world cut your hair. Like, who would you want to cut your hair? It's celebrity stylist Chris Appleton. Every time I go get my haircut, I have an inspo pic from celebrity hairstylist Chris Appleton. He's here talking about his book, and we said, well, how can we make this a little bit more Jackson-Claud coded?

1:07:49And I said, you know, I'm going to use my platform, and I'm getting a haircut, a free haircut from Chris Appleton. A live haircut. Oh, live, yes. This whole thing's happening live. I have no idea. We've not spoke. Okay, so I have inspiration pictures. We're going to talk to you about your book. You told us you're selling your business. We have a lot to catch up with you on, and we're also really excited to sort of redeem ourselves. Yeah, we need to right some wrongs from the last time. I don't know if you know, the last time you were on the toast haunts us. Haunts. We dress up for our show. Oh, my God.

1:08:19This is so rude. That's okay. It's probably me. I was like, who is that? I'm like, oh, it's me. I'm like, it's so... We always, you know, do our hair and makeup for the show in the best way that we can. The one time that you came on our show, we were headed to the airport right after. And so we wore airport looks. and we felt like such disheveled clowns when you came on the show and we always say like we can't ever look like that because of chris appleton the time that chris appleton came on the toes kind of like the chris appleton theater yeah like we were slobs when chris appleton came on the toes so like when we saw that you're doing press for your book we were so excited to have you come on the toes so we could redeem ourselves show you that we are not slab like women and claudia could get the haircut of her dreams which is very much in theme with your new book it is part self-help memoirs.

1:09:06Your Roots Don't Define You by Chris Appleton. We love a celebrity memoir here at The Toast. So we're going to talk to you all about your book and also sort of like art imitating life. Do a haircut, have a therapy session with Chris Appleton. It's like you're actually in my chair. We always talk about being in my chair. Everyone keeps saying, what is it about sitting in a stylish chair and you become a therapist? Maybe you're not, babe. Right. I think you've made the career. I'm trying to get Tania to open up. I am an onion. I have lots of layers. And just, what do you want to know, Chris? What do you want to know?

1:09:33Well, Chris, oh, hey. Sounds terrible. Do it, Chris. I just want you to know, like, so much of being a girl, like, of girlhood is getting your hair cut and, like, crying afterwards. Totally. Do you know that as a hairstylist? You're a beautiful hair, of course. Thank you. You know that, like, everybody cries. Of course. And why do a hairstylist, like, sometimes not listen? When you say, like, oh, I only want to cut one inch, and they cut four. I think it's because, um, I honestly don't know why they do that. Maybe they know better. Maybe you have four inches of dead. Yeah, or they'll be like, you're like, one size longer than the other, like, no.

1:10:02So what it is is your head actually goes to the side slightly. So if you actually just sort of walk around like this, You look perfect. That's better. Or the color's not right. Well, if you turn the lights off, it's better. Perfect color. It's like, so we don't have lights. I don't know. It's just sometimes a thing of like, I think it's just covering the tracks. Right, right, right. Well, I feel very confident. I'm going to show you some inspo pics. Let's see. First of all, you have great hair. Thank you so much. The inspo picture is you. That's gorgeous. I have recently, like my hair grows really fast.

1:10:29Show us. Oh, okay. So it's this beautiful, who's this? A model? She was my friend, actually. We didn't... Was? Oh, no, she's still my friend. She's gonna be like, yeah, exactly. No, she is my friend, and we shot it during COVID. It's gorgeous. The time of change, whatever. In fact, everything changed during COVID. Oh, really? Was that a big time for you? Especially business-wise. Because it nearly went wrong and went really right. So why I like this, I'll explain. I love big, bouncy layers. I love face framing. And I'm sort of on a weight loss journey, so I need my framed face layers to like make it look skinnier, if that makes sense.

1:11:04I like my length and I don't think I have a lot of dead. So I'm not looking to change the length so much, more so even more bounce and movement. Who is your hair icon? Well, I don't have so much hair icons because celebrities change their hair so much. I have like looks that are in like the hall of fame for me. J-Lo at the Super Bowl, which I know was you. Oh, okay. You want to walk around with that every day. Kim's like really dark chocolate, like PC layers, long hair. Yeah, that's cute. Love that. So I have like the same sort of like very Victoria's Secret. So, it's a little bit bouncy blowout.

1:11:32Foamshell. What don't you, I mean, obviously you look, so you really like the length of the minute. So maybe I'm interpreting that you don't necessarily love like how heavy it is. Yes, so my hair grows really fast. These pieces at one point were much shorter and I just like when there's more movement. Yeah, like more of that, because I mean, if you look at your face shape, you've got a beautiful face shape. Thank you. You've got like an oval face shape. Oh my God, so you think I'm skinny, okay. Yeah, I love that. I love that, was it different before? Yes, it was a little bit more round. Okay, so that's gone into oval.

1:12:01Yeah, of course, of course. But because your hair is so heavy, what can happen sometimes is it can start to wear you. You know what I mean? Like, the hair should have, like, that sexy movement and should move as you walk, whereas at the minute, it's quite heavy. Like, if you move it, the whole thing moves. Yeah. So it'd be nice if it had, like, a little bit more of a kind of ba-ba-boom, like, sexy vibe. I think it'd be really nice to open up your cheekbones a little bit. Would you be open to taking this shorter? Yes. Yes, yes. But how much shorter? I'm gonna say yes to everything for her. I think, yes.

1:12:26Okay. You have to trust... Oh, am I getting like a crazy haircut? Chef's choice. Okay, okay. Chef's choice. Give her a box. Chef's choice, yeah. A lot of, I will say, this is kind of how a lot of viewers watching will relate to because a lot of girls have this kind of hair. I'll be honest with you. It's beautiful, but it's almost a bit like, you know when you're at school and you're a kid and you just have middle school hair? That's what we call it. Oh my God. It goes there a little bit. No, you did not. Just thought me about middle school hair. No, it goes there a little bit. Just because you're like a sexy lady and like, Thank you so much.

1:12:52I think you're into that now. Yeah, yeah. And it'd be nice to feel that when you kind of run your fingers through your hair, it's got that kind of movement. I agree. It's not just like hanging, you know? It is just hanging, yeah. But that doesn't mean you have to cut all your hair off. So I think we, I open up the cheekbones a little bit here. So I think the shortest part should be like around here. That's like by my eyes. I know, I think it'd be, but it's going to be very face. It's not even going to have a big old bag. Cut it. It's a once in a lifetime haircut. It is a once in a lifetime haircut.

1:13:15Okay, okay. We're going to kind of basically lighten up through here with layers and giving it shape. Yeah. But you have this really beautiful wave. So I want it to be able to like dry, air dry naturally as well. So you have to do it. Yes. But if you do, you have that like bombshell, like Pamela Anderson, 90s, sexy. Okay. We're just like doing it. We're doing it. Let it rip. But I really, I really love the length. I think it's great. But I'll be honest with you, like the length is literally like one length. So this is going to be - It's one length. Yes. And that's not what I want. Not what you want.

1:13:40This is just going to be a, a U.20. You know what I mean? We're just taking it to the next level. Change isn't always about cutting your hair off. It's just like finding out who you are. Like you say you want to feel a little bit sexier. Yeah, and a little bit more mature. You know, I'm a mother now. I don't know if I'm mature. Don't mean mature. I agree. I think if anything, like a bit more youthful and sexy. And how old are you? I just feel like that's not important. I think. I'm 13. 13. So at 13 years old, like I think we should, I got the compliments there. I'm gonna start. Okay. Yeah. And we're gonna talk to you.

1:14:12So you were telling us, because we are huge Colorado fans. Wait, we should wear a cape on. Oh, a cape? Yeah, of course. Oh, yeah. So professional. Yeah, it's true. It's brilliant. You might have to move your microphone, Claudia. I'll go to your case. Oh, I'm sorry, everyone. It's okay. We're not cutting corners. And Claudia is very precious about her hair. I don't want to have hair redone. Extremely precious about my hair, so. Good. As you should be. As everyone is. It's like a big part of who you look. And also, your hair is like a really great feature. You know what I mean? Yes, I've always really identified.

1:14:39Sometimes people like have hair and it's just like an accessory. Yeah, and they change it every week. And it means nothing to them. My hair means everything. It's your identity. It is my security blanket. It's my identity. I can't even do this gown up. How does this thing work? Step one, how to put on a gown. I just feel like you've evolved the gown. Step two, cut the hat. Yeah, I'm so over putting gowns on me. When was the last time, I guess you cut your clients' hair a lot when you do celebrity glam. Are they, are celebrities more like carefree about cutting their hair? Like they're like, sure, sure.

1:15:09Because they can always get a wig if they don't like it. Just like when I cut Kim's hair up into a bob, like... She freaks? Oh, it's like a big thing, like you're cutting away, like, you know, like, hair can mean so much, and it can have such a feeling. It can make you feel sexy. It can make you feel glamorous. Short hair feels very different. Doesn't move the same. You don't... It changes the way you walk. It changes everything. It changes the way your makeup reads. It also changes. It can make you look more sophisticated. It can make you look younger and sexier. It just depends on, I think, how you feel good, what you feel good with, and, you know, what you go to.

1:15:37So, no, everyone has that feeling. When do you think a person, like, is a good candidate for getting a bob or, like, a short haircut? Well, there is the breakup haircut, which I talk about in the book, and it's a really kind of interesting time where people really want to change their hair and just cut everything off and do something completely different. Do you think that's a good idea? I think sometimes it's a scary idea just only because like it's that time you want that instant change and you just don't want to see that reflection. And a lot of the time you don't want to see the pain that you're in.

1:16:02You kind of want to pull it out of it. Do you know what I mean? Like what book can I read? Who can I talk to? What podcast can I listen to to like get over this heartbreak? Listen to the toast. Listen to the toast. Exactly. But sometimes I think, you know, it's about kind of trying to escape. So I feel like breakup haircut is always a little bit scary. But I think a bob haircut is like a really beautiful, I love it. I love a bob. It's just, it's a commitment. I don't want a bob. Do not even think about it. Do you want us to think with your texture? It would be bad, right? Not a good candidate.

1:16:29It would be. Oh, okay, good. It just wouldn't suit your hat. I mean, it would be, it would be big. You'd have to really style it. It would be big. It would just like not work. It would just ruin your, you know, even change your texture. Oh man, this is like the craziest thing I've ever done. Wait, we like to do crazy stuff on the show. You really put us on to Color Wow when you came on the Toast in 2019. The Pop and Lock Shellac, we literally have it here. We use it every day. And then it's like a gateway drug to the other products. And you were telling us before... Wait, do you know what we should do so it's less boring, so people can actually see it?

1:16:59Yeah. I should dry your hair. Oh, sure. Dry it after? I think we should dry it now. Okay. And I'm going to cut it dry so people can actually see it. Great. And you can see it. Because also because the texture of your hair, you're not really going to get... It's going to kind of a little boring and dark. Okay, okay. So... So let me dry it. Can we do it quick or do we pull? Chris is going to dry my hair. And then we're going to cut it so everyone can really see sort of the drama. I want people to see the transformation. The big reveal. So we're not going to cut your hair, we're going to contour it.

1:17:23So now you contour your face with makeup, right? So contour, what you got? You got blush. What else have you got on there? Everything. But you layer and shape your face. We know that you can do that with makeup now, right? Made me look chiseled, contour, shape me. You can also do that with hair. So you've got your standard layered haircut, but when you contour, you really like shaping the hair according to the hair texture, the hair density, and also the face shape. So it's kind of working on more of like a hair cutting technique, which is contouring. OK. The new haircut of haircuts. I love that.

1:17:55So we're going to contour your hair. But that's why we're going to do it dry. OK. OK. So guys, we'll be right back. We're going to blow dry my hair. A quick commercial break. A quick commercial break. And we'll see you in a minute. OK, we are back. Chris has blow dried Claudia's hair. It actually looks really beautiful. And it's going to be... Like, the fact that I got my hair blonde. So all they did is made it dry. Yeah. So now we're gonna start with the shape in. And I, like, wanna ask you questions, but I'm so, like, like, I need to distract him. You don't wanna focus? This is so important to me.

1:18:22But he's used to talking while he works. Yeah, it's true. All right, let's go. You ready? Do most celebrities, like, wanna chit-chat, or they just, like, wanna sit and silence? There's always stuff happening, like, they're on the phone. Right, right. You know, there's always life happening. This is the craziest thing. As is today. So yeah, you're in the chair today. This is it. This is happening. This is the crazy stuff. You're gonna be great, Claudia. Don't look at yourself. Trust the process. Let's focus on Chris and his book. This is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. It really is. Wait, when I came in 10 years ago, did you think I was gonna have a book out?

1:18:49No, when you came in 10 years ago, you were still... Six years ago. You were still very much like an iconic, because you've always had like probably the most A-list clients. But you've really evolved into much more of like a media empire now. Like you were saying before, when you were referencing Color Wow off-camera, and you said, we are doing XYZ. I did not know that you were involved. I thought you were like maybe an ambassador. A brand ambassador. No, I was a big part of it. Really? Yeah, I mean like 10 years ago when I met Gail, Coloval just had the shampoo condition. They had some products and they had the root powder, which people knew of, but we just kind of connected.

1:19:22And honestly, we've had the best relationship. It was just like, it was all a little crazy. It was very personal. It was a lot of family that's involved. We're all a little off the wall with our ideas, but I think fundamentally we all really cared about creating a great product for the people that, you know, needed hair care solutions. And I was saying to you during COVID, it was like a really interesting time, because it was a time where we thought we had it all sorted, knowing what worked and the message. And then COVID happened and everything changed. And we were like, what happens now? But then we changed towards social media, and we sort of took that on.

1:19:54And that was such a big way of connecting to people. And it grew the brand so much more. The power of TikTok. No, by the way, I feel like myself included, like everyone knows about ColorWow because of you. and there were a couple of products that went super viral. Like you use the dream coat on me, which is I use it every day. It's like the best thing to use before you. Before you blow your hair. Yeah. The hairspray, the shampoo and conditioner. Yeah. I mean, the dream coat is it's like, that's the hero product. It takes it like a frizz, gives it that mirror-like shine. And honestly, it's just a great product, which helps a lot of people.

1:20:25And I think that's what it's simply about. And I think that's like, honestly, that's the reason I brought out the book. The book isn't a memoir, by the way. It's part memoir, but it's more self-help because I think a lot of people just need, even you sitting in the chair, like there's an uncomfortableness to change. There's an uncomfortableness to like, I feel like she's close to panicking when she sees all the chairs on. No, I'm actually feeling very calm. Like you're in good, you're in the best hands. Yeah, given what's going on right now, and like this might be the craziest thing I've ever done, I feel extremely calm.

1:20:51You have a warm presence about you. You know, you're also a parent. I feel like a lot of people, every time you post your kids are shocked to find out that you have two grown, like pretty grown kids. How old are your kids? My kids are 21 and 23. And how old are you? You look like 17. I'm 42. Wow, you look amazing. I was 19 when I had kids. Yeah, I had a very different life before I came out. Right. And you talk about all that in the book. Yeah. I mean, do you know what? Be honest with you. I actually had a cancer scare. I spoke about it for the first time this week because I just didn't really want to go out there and necessarily talk about it.

1:21:23But there was a very different book written where it was more surface level and maybe what people know about me. I work with celebrities. Right. I mean, we post the best parts of ourselves. Look, we're all guilty of being controlled with what we post. We're all scared. Like, do you ever post and think, what is this person thinking? What is that person thinking? Let's face it, they've already made their mind up, and you're probably on mute. Yeah. You know what I mean? If someone doesn't really like, you're probably already on mute. Right, right. So I, you know, try and be more authentic with my posting and try and be more authentic, and I really want to be more authentic with my story, because with this cancer scare, I actually had to go under, and have an operation.

1:22:01Oh, wow. And my daughter was with me. And it was very scary because it was esophageal cancer. And my mom had that, and it was very nearly the end, Janiva. And obviously, Kim's dad had it. He died very fast of it. And I know a lot of my friends' friends that have died at 30, 40. It's very aggressive. So when I was not getting reassured by the doctor and I had to go under, I was like, is this my time? I've had a lot of stress in my life. I've had a lot of trauma. Like, I remember thinking, have I written what I should write? Like, and used my voice, or I just done another edited version. And I knew I had.

1:22:35I'd done an edited version because it was safer. So I decided to write this and just be more vulnerable and more real, because I guess I just wanted to own my voice before, you know, my possibility of not having it. So, yeah, it was hard to kind of go into my darkest kind of moments, but hopefully that'll help other people. Yeah. Because at the end of the day, we all have them, right? Right. We all have those, like, moments where we feel lost or unsure or question, like, is this it? is this who I am? Is this where I'm going to be? I'll tell you something. No one knows though. A big result of, um, the cancer scare I found out was, um, I went through a stage of trying Manjaro, you know, GLP one.

1:23:11Oh, girls who I know Manjaro were best friends. That's what, that's what you're doing now. Um, I'm technically on zip bound, but they're all the same. So, I mean, so why did you tell me your, I don't know your journey. What? So always struggled. And then, yeah. And like right now I had a baby, uh, eight months ago, I was actually eight months today. Okay. And I think, yeah, happy eight month birthday. And for me, like bouncing back is really just about like wanting to have more kids and I don't want to even attempt to do it myself. I've always struggled doing it myself. With weight, yeah. Yeah, and I love these, like I think these medicines are magic.

1:23:45I'm a huge fan of them. Why did you take it? I think I've always been very conscious of what I eat. I work out, I work out like seven days a week, six days, I don't know, depending with what, but I like to go mentally because it makes me feel great. But I think also physically, like I want to feel good. When you're standing in front of people, I want to feel, I don't want to be standing there feeling like not healthy. What kind of example am I? So I did it just because when I got to my forties, it was so much harder to lose like one pound. Yeah, right. I go to the gym for an hour. I spend half an hour on the treadmill, but then with my life and scheduling and stuff, and I kind of, I wanted to lose like six pounds and I thought, why not?

1:24:21I'll just try it. I just thought I kind of was interested to see what it was all about, how it worked. and I've got a huge appetite. Like I could be a really big guy if I wanted to. But, you know, I think for me, I was like struggling with lifestyle, work, traveling. And what I really noticed, what was amazing is it took away like the noise of food. Yeah, that's the magic. So I ate, listen, I took the lowest dose. So I still had my breakfast. I had a lunch. I had my dinner. And I was very conscious of doing protein shakes in between. I wanted to make sure, well, my goal wasn't to be super skinny, but it was just to keep me from getting, yeah, eating crap all the time, getting like unhealthy, which has a negative effect on the gym.

1:25:00It was just kind of about balance. But I only tried it for a short period of time, but that actually gave me like the acid reflux. Oh yeah. That's real. Really bad. Like waking you up in the night. Yeah. So these, this thing that they thought was possibly a suffering trial cancer, it was cysts. I had cysts. Now that wasn't caused from the Mangiano. I think it was caused from lifestyle stress. I also was taking a medication called I get doxycycline for my skin. I get folliculitis from the hair on my face. And I didn't realize, I used to take it at bed at night and I'd go sleep. And apparently it's the worst medication you can take because you lay there and it sits and it can eat away and it causes this acid.

1:25:34So effectively like that combined, that's one of the reasons I got cysts. So I stopped doing it. I only did it for maybe a month, but I see the benefit. I see the benefit for some, I've been, I mean, Kate, the mother of my kids, we're still best friends now. She's struggled with her weight a whole life. She has done every diet from eating soups for six months. Like, she lost the weight, she looked great, always put it back on. Because when life got involved, she couldn't maintain, like, the amount of commitment she had to give to losing weight. And so when she tried it, like, the difference and how it changed her life, I think, was amazing.

1:26:08And I see the kind of... It seemed to lift her whole aura, like, of, like, this pressure she always felt. And I write about your roots don't define you. Well, a lot of time it does. and like these sort of lives we feel trapped in. And I think it gives people a freedom to be able to see a new version of themselves. And focus on other things. But it's not as a, I mean, I am a believer, if you're gonna do it, like you still need to eat healthy. It's not about, some people just do it and they don't eat. And they don't change anything. And I'm like, guys, you gotta eat protein. You gotta make sure you take in your vitamins.

1:26:39Like hair loss is a big thing, I will say. With GLP-1, I mean, obviously not on you, babe. No, but with weight loss in general, like it's such a - People always lose hair. When they lose weight, the hair, I think it's just like lack of nutrients, shock to the body. Those things always changes. So I'm always saying like, make sure you take your hair supplements. You've got to be really kind of, I think, aware of what you're doing. And I still think it's good to go to the gym and use it as motivation to like, a lot of people when they're overweight. Yeah, like their knee hurts because they're overweight.

1:27:07Whereas in actual fact, it helps them get to a better place so they can excel on them. Right. I'm a big fan. I see Oprah going around right now. She's struggled with her weight her whole life. I think it's so brave to go out because there's so much negativity on it and people are terrified to say, and so many people are on it, but people, it's so funny. You say, oh my gosh, you look amazing. And let's face it, you know when someone's on it because it's completely different. You know what they say? Yeah. Oh, thank you so much. Yeah. I said, what are you doing? And they're like, um, intimate fasting.

1:27:33Okay, right. Okay. Yeah. That's how you got it all together last minute. You know, look, each to their own. I just think there should be more honest conversations. Yeah. I tried it. It didn't work for me and possibly my area of life and health reasons. And let's be honest, I don't really need it. I just wanted to get to a place that I'd always wanted to get to, a physique. And, you know, I realized it was just a bit too much on my life. Yeah, right. What do you think to it? I mean, I'm obsessed with it. I have had the most positive experience, I think, like for women who... How much weight have you lost?

1:28:01Well, right now, I've had two like stints on it. Right now, I just started a month ago. I'm down around 11 pounds. Okay. And then before I got pregnant, I had lost like 70 pounds on it. So really like a huge success story from it yeah and i'm a i'm just a really big fan i think that like so much of like such a so much of the struggle around like being a mom is so way related right like so all the different issues of like wanting to lose weight before you get pregnant again a lot of people being hesitant to get pregnant because or like when i was overweight i did not want to get pregnant at that weight so i think like so many of the stages of womanhood like we can't not talk about them without talking about weight and i think this just really did you get flack for it did people people um well so i did it for many months before I shared.

1:28:46Were you nervous to be honest about it? Of course but also like I was nervous to be on a drug like I don't take drugs like I'm injecting myself I didn't want to share it until I knew that like I was gonna like love it and have a good experience and also it was just so personal weight is so personal for girls like so I just didn't want to share and now in hindsight like I do wish I shared a little bit earlier like I shared more towards the end of my journey um but it was it was a beautiful journey it was what it was. It's your first time doing it Exactly. And it was before. Now it's ubiquitous.

1:29:11Everyone talks about it. Everyone shares that they're on it, and it's not a big deal. In fact, people are like, stop talking about it. Would you try it? Would you do it? Oh, yes. It's my dream. What do you mean it's a dream? So I've had three kids. I just had a baby two months ago. Okay. So I do look forward to being on it one day, but I'm breastfeeding, so no can do right now. Okay. And before, it came out right when I started having kids, so it was like not my time. But I do feel like my time is coming soon, and I'm really excited. I just want to say, like, we're getting close to the front of my hair.

1:29:44Like, I just think... And I can't wait. We need to acknowledge that. And I'm just working on my way from... But I'm being so brave. I'm being so brave. You're doing great, man. Thank you. But I promise I'm not gonna lie out. You're still gonna look... No, I know, I know. But I'm shaping. Shape away, girl, Frank. Shape away. You're bringing sexy, baby. Oh, I already see the contour. Claudia looks so good. You're contouring the body. I'm contouring the hair. It's so true. Don't... These bitches aren't ready. It's a contour summer. Do his work. Yeah, yeah. That's a nice way of putting that. Okay, so of all your, like, famous looks throughout history, which do you think is the most impactful, like, on the beauty community?

1:30:17For me, J.Lo Super Bowl is up there, like, for sure. You know, that was, like, the worst moment of my career. Why? Because it was the biggest moment of my career. And I really didn't realize it was gonna be that big. So I saw J.Lo's performance, and I was like, wow, she's mega. Like, if anyone ever seen J.Lo perform, she's great. And I was like, how do I give her hair worthy of this performance? And I also know so many people watch these things for the glam. How do they look? What do they look like? So I decided to do... Oh, God, I'll tell you something. I did a hairstyle on her for... It was like a rehearsal, but it was filmed.

1:30:51So we did this rehearsal, but it was filmed, because they were worried it was gonna rain on the day in Miami, and if it was gonna rain, they were gonna use this recording. So I don't know why, but I sort of did this thing that sometimes we do where we overthink things. He's like brides. They always wear their hair down their whole lives, no makeup. They get married, they have blue eyeshadow and put their hair on. Right, right, right. Extra, you know, they're like, why did I do that? Sometimes we just go too far. Yeah. So I decided to like curl her hair, but normally I'd curl her hair, let it drop, brush it out.

1:31:17I decided to curl it on like a really tight curling iron. So that when it felt, like it would fall. I was like, oh, I really want it to hold. I don't want it to drop. And then I was, I pinned it with pins curls. Which I don't normally do. Well, you'd think, right? You'd think I'd know by now. So they're like, hey, J.Lo, we're ready for you. ready on stage and she's like, okay, baby, so I take the pins out and I just brush her hair out and it's gonna be like gorgeous, right? Nice, bouncy. So I take the curls out and they're like coils. Right. And I went to brush it out. I don't know what I did that day, but they just stayed, it kept going back into a coil.

1:31:46As I was brushing her hair aggressively as I got out to the field, like I'm really going for it. And she's like, what's going on, baby? And she's like, let me see them here. And it's like these coils, these curls. And she's like, it's curly. And I'm like, yeah, it's gonna drop. I did that thing I first used to do when you... You're like, turn the lights off. It's the, um... You know, the... It's gonna drop. So she's like, okay. So she does this performance. Anyway, I just see her spinning her head around on the big stage, and it's just like, ba-doing, like these curls. I'm like, what the hell happened?

1:32:16So anyway, she came off and she's like, how was it? And everyone's like, oh my God, it was amazing, blah, blah, blah. And in my head, I'm like, oh, it was too fucking curly. So I was like, I'm just gonna, I'm very honest. I was just like, I think your hair was a bit too curly. She's like, it kind of felt curly. So then her manager came in and he was like, Oh my God, your hair on that last take was phenomenal. I love the bounciness of it. So I actually developed this new technique where I did this double curl. I decided to curl the hair on the smallest curling iron, and then I went over it with the biggest one that I normally do, because you get a real tight curl when you curl it on a small curling iron.

1:32:44But the big curls always drop out. But when you have the base of the smaller curl, the big curl really holds. So that was actually how it stayed, because I did her hair as... It's like Thomas Edison in the light bulb, right? Yeah, it was called the double curl technique. I love that. So basically, she went out there, I did a performance, but I went home that night and cried still. Yeah, and thank God it did a rain. No, I went home and I shed one piece of hair when she's like, there's one piece of hair went in between her eyelash like that, and it got stuck. And I thought, oh my God, I've ruined that performance.

1:33:09Right. I've literally ruined everything. No, I think that's the eyelash person's fault. Yeah, a thousand percent. Everyone went out, had a great night, and I was like just torturing myself. But I realize now, and that's what I write about a lot in the book, these experiences where like now I can be like way more realistic with myself. I can turn that, the hater down that we all have. Down to a two, and I can come back to myself. And I can actually say to myself, well, actually, the fact that her hair moves so well added to the performance, if it was really straight and stiff, it wouldn't have been as good.

1:33:34But some of the biggest moments in my career, I feel like I failed and let myself down. Rather than like celebrating it, I pulled myself apart. Just watching Kardashians, and you and Kim were joking about the Marilyn hair at the Met. Oh, do not. Why did you bring that up? That's what you're talking about, but it's... We don't talk about it. Well, can we talk about it? No. Anytime Kim brings that up, it'll probably also be like, not the Marilyn. No, leave it. It's so funny, because as cultural commentators, we were gooped and gagged when we saw it. She will still send me edited versions of like, wait, what about this Jackie O.

1:34:05We should have done the big... Like, the AI version. Oh, my God, that's so funny. Chachi BT. I stand by the bun, because the idea was, like, she didn't want to do, like, a Marilyn copy. And we were so worried about it. Like a modern take on Marilyn. You know those people at Hollywood Studios where they have the Marilyn? So we were like, do the wig. But I think when you've just bleached your hair and you've got no rue, it's kind of very... I don't know, I still stand by, I thought it was cool, but... I think... You guys are so funny. I'm still debating it. That's so funny. Wait, what were you gonna say anyway?

1:34:33No, I was gonna say, what would you have done differently? Like, if you did that outfit again, what would you have done? What do you think is the right thing? I think I'd just leave it in the moment. Yeah, it was amazing. Loved it. I mean, look... We're going, we're going. Everyone's gonna have an opinion on it. I think I stand by it, but, you know, I think it could have been fun. I'm not gonna have crazy. Show everyone my hair. That'd be a best one little bit. He's making gains, by the way. Yeah, no, and the thing is, I'm feeling so good about this. Yeah, it's good. It's good. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:35:00I have Chris Appleton doing my hair. Like, how many people can say that? Exactly. Exactly. I'm just going with what you're saying. You just don't give me, like, fringe bags, okay? No, it looks so... Oh, I love that piece. Opening up your face, babe. I love that. Oh, look at that. Where are you? Opening up your face. Wow, we're watching Transform. Oh, I'm confused, because the monitor's the other side. This? Okay. Yeah, no, we can see the transformation. Is there a celebrity whose hair you've done who was so unpleasant to work with that you never wanted to work with them again? I see that all the time.

1:35:26People keep going on about, like, why do people love to, like... Gossip like that? No, they're always looking for the bad. Oh, when you say people, you're talking about me. Okay. No, I think he's talking about the hairstylists who say that. People, like, talking about the glam bot. Oh, yes. I'm like, I don't know. It's just like, JLo... She's working. It was like, she left so much earlier. I think there was so much traffic to get there. And we were like, why is she not on the carpet? Why is she not on the carpet? but so you get there, it's so chaotic in these situations and you're moving on and your PR person is just passing you from place to place and you go and you say, you know, say hi, but like you got to hear everything they're saying.

1:35:57Like, I just don't think it's - Like we talked about it. Why do people, oh yeah. And like expose people. We talked about that the other day because I thought that that video like went so viral for no reason. No reason, people just love to get out. And I have to say like I worked with her for a long time and I think she's an amazing person. She's always been incredibly generous. And I think anything can be taken out of context. And I think people sometimes look in. and I think now they've started on the Glenbot guy because there's someone posting their emails I'm like yeah the Glenbot guy is getting canceled I know poor guy I mean I wonder who would do that oh was it you guys no no we just reported on it and I thought like maybe his time was coming because I feel like sometimes he sets up celebrities do you feel that like like even the JLo video don't you feel like he knew what he was doing when he posted that oh he posted it yeah it felt nefarious to me like and I think a lot of times he filmed celebrities without their consent and not all the time is a celebrity and be like hi oh my god how are you sometimes you're at a work thing and you're just quiet and you know for anyone that's watching and anyone that wanted to drag jaylo during that moment red cock is already saying it's them it's it's not a natural thing to have so many people screaming your name it's so as so many different people you're saying hello to it's really overwhelming so i'd like to see anyone yeah you know like hugging everyone you're also kind of like it is a bit of a pantomime of like you're there to take your picture you've spent hours getting right you look in your best picture you move on quite nerve-wracking no matter how long you've done it.

1:37:17Yeah, it's an art form. So I actually am fully defensive of Jolo, and I think she's a very kind person, and I think everything can be perceived in different ways, especially on a, like, 10-second... Yeah, video, right. But that's the well-being limit. And you've got to be able to, you know, just take it, give and take. And at what stage of the haircut do you think you're in right now? I'm just going to go for it and refine it. You have, like, a lot of weight in one area of your ass. I also have a cowlick. Like what do you, like what does, how do you get rid of a cowlick? Like you can't. Cut it off?

1:37:50Wait, how? It's almost like - Oh, you just work with it. Just work around it. That's what I mean about contouring. It's like, I'm like actually looking at your hair now. Do you see the cowlick? I'm actually going to start to create like some shorter pieces. Oh wow. A within. Chunk out the back. You've got like a big chunk of wedge on the back. Oh, okay. Not big. Like a chunk. It's like a lot of, you sometimes obviously see if your hair is not spread. Sometimes it's thinner hair and you have the big - Oh, that's interesting. So it's kind of like balancing proportion. It's not like, you know, business in the front and a party in the back.

1:38:19The whole thing starts to have one blow. But we can start to - It already feels lighter. But you still have hair. Yes, yes, so long. There's loads of hair on the floor. Oh my God, there's - Oh, is there? I can't look. I can't look. But your hair is still long. Oh my God, you guys! My hair! I'm fucking dying! And we're doing more. Okay, we have to collect it all and then like make a, like a Merkin or something. And put it on the shelf. Yes, of course. Here lies Turdy's mop. Let's get like an acrylic box. We'll make a Merkin. Yeah, that's what I said. You've never had a crazy haircut where you've hated it?

1:38:54No, I always do the same. Every time I go get my haircut, I do like a little trim. We cut off the dead and then lots of layers, lots of movement, face framing. Can I ask you the odd, can you be honest with me? Mm-hmm. I want you to do the same. I write a chapter in my book about the hater inside your head. Yeah, nobody hates me more than me, so. Okay, well, this is precisely my point. So there's a part where I talk about people looking in the mirror. And it's like, when you look in the mirror, are you truly alive? Like what you see in your outside image with how you truly feel on the inside, the way you want to get in your life?

1:39:22Because a lot of people say, I don't care about the way I look. I don't care about my hair. But you're also saying something. So when someone sits in a stylish chair, it's a real moment of vulnerability because you look in the mirror. And you can't look, you know, you look and we just stare at them. It's so true. I cannot stop staring at myself. Okay, so most people have this hatred inside their head where they like start tearing themselves apart. Do you know the amount of women that do this? Yeah. I'm always like this. And they're like, do you think it's, you know, why I did that in here? Because I've got this big dog, like, my boot, one boot is bigger than the other.

1:39:52Like, is this on? Swips, you just start tearing yourself apart. The voice inside your head is like loud. Yes. And we talk about that in the book and how basically it's from your past and something someone probably once said to you. Someone probably once said that, you know, you're the shy one. Your sister's the confident one. or you need bangs because you have a big forehead. You carry these things. So when I would talk to people, I'd talk about like, they'd be like, well, I know I can't do that. Yeah. Right. I'd be like, why is that? And they're like, well, because I just, I can't, I don't know.

1:40:22And they carry these like preconceived ideas of who they are from something someone once said, you know, and they carry it off the whole life. So when you look at the mirror, like, what do you see? Like, what does the hater say? Oh, what does a hater say? Well, the thing is, I feel like, um, I am like my biggest hater, but I'm also like no one's more delusional about how amazing, gorgeous, perfect I am. Like I really teeter between, I teeter between being like delusionally self-confident while also being so hard on myself. I feel like it really just depends on the day. Okay. And the season. On a bad day?

1:40:52What is it? On a bad day, it's like, like the worst things I think about myself visually or like internally. Oh, always wait. Actually, that's it. Like I kind of have amazing skin and amazing hair. It's wait for me always. Amazing face and features. Yeah. And like so smart and amazing and like intelligent. and it's always the way you probably carried that with you my whole life yes you know but you can start to like change that voice inside your head yes it was a resolution of mine like many years ago to stop the negative self-talk i didn't one can speak worse to yourself than yourself it's so true you know what i mean like that's i realized that like especially when i kind of came out i realized i made a career out of making people look in the mirror and see themselves and like really kind of like be the best versions of themselves but like i never actually looked because it's really scary to do.

1:41:37It's like the hardest work you can do is to stop and take the wrong hard work. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Wait, what's yours? Wait. You know, these days there's not much to do about it. Right, that's the other part. Like being on drugs and breastfeeding. Breastfeeding and getting pregnant. You're so hungry, you can't diet, can't take drugs. Did you, okay, so when you had your kids, you were living where? Dude, this is like in... Stop. And where was I living? Oh, in Leicester, in a small town called Leicester. Lester? Middle Indian. Lester. Lester. It's spelled like Leicester, right? Yeah. L-E-I-C-E-S-T-E-R.

1:42:12Oh, hi. Yeah, no, I'm completely fine. You don't have to worry about me. And it's in the back for too long. You're like, is it there? Yeah. Is it gone? You said you have a very good relationship with your ex-wife, mother. Yeah. So did you come out after you were divorced or that was the reason you got divorced? Our relationship kind of broke down. We've been together since I was 19. I was like 27. And our relationship kind of broke down. I think we were still really close, but I don't know. Sometimes things just for whatever reason. But we still had this like friendship. And I will say during my like darkest time, she was the one that really reminded me who I was.

1:42:46And I would say like, it's definitely an unconditional type of love we have because even to this day, like we still talk all the time. We spend New Year's Eve and Christmas together with a kid. That's so nice. Was rare, but I also believe that's like real love because even in my darkest moments, the night I tried to end my life was the night I tried to, I had to tell my kids. I just couldn't bear telling them or causing them pain or grief. And she was telling them about the divorce or coming out. Got it. And she was the one that really helped me see myself before I could see myself. Oh, wow. She sounds amazing.

1:43:17And what does she make of you now? Like in your success? And I guess it was really interesting because we we were we spent Christmas together and like the fireworks were going off in the years of Eve. And there's a video where I put my arm around her and I just I don't know. I was just sort of taking it in and she's like, wow, you, you actually really did it. Chris is like, I knew you always would like, I believed in you when you didn't believe in yourself, but she's like, you actually, you did it. Like I set off to America with a dream and I guess. That's really sweet. I bet it would have been very different if it didn't have the people around me.

1:43:49Like, right. There was one moment in my career where it probably would have been a very different story. Um, I was doing Christina over there on the voice and basically like we had three hours for glam. I ended up having 20 minutes. I walked in. I'd never worked with her before. I was terrified. And I said to her, like, you know, what do you want to do? And she was like, I don't know. What do you want to do? And I said, I thought I'll put a wig on. It'll be quick. It's only 20 minutes. So I had these hair pieces and she was like, I don't like wigs. So I was like, oh, cool. Why would you like anything I've got to do?

1:44:18And I'm like, why would you even? I was like, she's, I had that complete impostor syndrome. I was like, she's insane. And then I literally felt like I was paralyzed. I started to do this thing that hairdressers do. this is a maybe triggering to some people are you gonna keep touching oh why do hairstylists do that it's triggering they finish your hair they just yeah basically you don't know what you're doing oh that's great but when i'm doing this i'm like please something happen someone say something something fall for something i've got to i've got to there's a oh my god let's avoid what's happening yeah so basically um i had that and then i remember kate's boy she said me on the way in the car she was like if you don't make this work because you're gonna have to come home because i had two kids to provide i didn't have the luxury we were poor as well but they didn't have the luxury of like just being single yeah yeah living my gay life you know i had to provide for the kids it was we always had that commitment and i remember her voice and i kind of came back to herself and i was like you know i didn't come to this work for me so i know what i'm doing and i had these breaks i said it's just kind of happy so i got one out of the bag and i put it on her head and she was like oh so cool and um she was like oh i like it and it was like 10 So I put it on her head, she ran off and went on the voice.

1:45:27And I remember she came off and she was like talking to the contestants. And she looked over at me and she's like, everyone likes your wig. And then I'm talking. And in that moment, like I knew, but I tell you now, I swear to you, if I hadn't, I've took that leap of faith and come back to myself. And maybe Kate believing in me, even when I didn't, I wouldn't be here now. I wouldn't have written the book for sure. I wouldn't have done any of the celebrities. I would still be in Lester probably believe in a version of myself I was told as a kid. And I think a lot of people have that. A lot of people like believe the things they've always just been told.

1:45:55because it's scary to do anything else. Fortunately, I had someone that saw me when I didn't. But now I've learned to do that to myself. Because then you get into bad relationships, you get into bad friendships, you make bad financial decisions, it makes everything in your life. Yeah. Can we talk about the Kardashians? Your go-to for all the girls. Yeah, go to them. Oh, we're out of time. We're out of time. Oh. Yeah, because we're running late. We'll have to do your hair. Okay, well... Right, stand up. Okay, we're finishing up Claudia's hair. We will post the final photos, I'm so excited to see, on Instagram.

1:46:23Chris Appleton, thank you so much for coming to The Toast, our redemption episode. Live haircut, never been done before. Nobody can do it like The Toast. You're not going to need him. No, that's not true. I'll send you a picture. We're probably so fabulous. I can't with us. Guys, you're excited to see this out there. I'm happy of your root stone to find you for some more Chris in your life and some more positive self-talk. We appreciate your time. And we will see you tomorrow. Love ya! With new hair! Love ya, bye!

1:47:19So long a theirs, not our πολ��ies King!