The Wayward Women of Hollywood: Wednesday, February 18th, 2026

6:41Claudia Oshry:And your shoes? Oh yes. I'm wearing flip flops.

6:45Jackie Oshry:Fancy like flip flops. They're called Texas. Tequis? Teeks? Teeks? Teeks? Yeah because like who wants to wear flip flops? But like these are so elegant.

6:56Claudia Oshry:Texas merch. pk she said texas from pk she said texas from pk that's the brand yeah texas from pk um how are the stories today they're good it's again like there was a lot of stories that were like all lightly interesting um not like so significant so i picked my five things yeah

7:18Jackie Oshry:any businessman of the week come to mind this week well we already have our businessman of

7:22Claudia Oshry:the week so i didn't want to feel so conflicted yeah and i just want to make everyone know like

7:26Jackie Oshry:don't come to expect businessmen of the week to be every week because then it gets forced. Think of it more as like a Kelly's Mindless News. Like when a businessman makes news, whatever week that may be, he will be the businessman of the week. And until then, Paul Salem is a businessman until we find another one.

7:40Claudia Oshry:Yeah. And I think the businessmen like would like that.

7:43Jackie Oshry:Are we going to keep the photo rotating? Yeah. Or Paul Salem, he's our inaugural, like he's forever.

7:48Claudia Oshry:We can't have a picture of Paul Salem up here forever.

7:50Jackie Oshry:Oh, and do you want to hear the best part?

7:52Claudia Oshry:Unless like he wants to be businessman of the week every week.

7:55Jackie Oshry:Do you want to hear the absolute best part of this whole thing? Is the cardboard Koji element of it. Because I wanted to get a frame. Does that frame look familiar?

8:05Claudia Oshry:Home Goods?

8:06Jackie Oshry:I bought it at Home Goods like a little while ago. Because we took these really cute holiday pictures like with Santa and everything and the kids. And I was like, let me just like frame it. And I bought it from Home Goods. It was$6. And it was actually broken. Like the picture wouldn't stay in it. Like it doesn't stay up. It's like so broken. So I meant to return it. Obviously never did. And now it's been repurposed. Cardboard Koji reigns supreme

8:26Claudia Oshry:Except Cardboard Koji didn't make the return

8:29Jackie Oshry:I know Oh sorry no I sorry We did and they were like you didn't buy this here I'm like excuse me I did and they were like And you also broke it I'm like you broke it Yeah and then I got into a fight So it's just been like it's been hanging around And now I found a purpose for it

8:43Claudia Oshry:Of Paul Salem But any businessman like it's never too late to be businessman Of the week if you want to Give us a jet

8:51Jackie Oshry:Oh that's a very easy way to give us like if you want to be businessman of the week here's how you can get it give us a chat we can be bought this is a segment oh where bribery is like very much a factor or if like you're in a

9:03Claudia Oshry:business that's having like trouble optically like you could sponsor businessman of the week like like a great idea if astronomer like wanted to rehabilitate their ceo they could have bought businessman of the week where we had to say nice things about that ceo yes it could be a sponsored

9:19Jackie Oshry:segment so just like i want everyone to know like that's coming um giving us a jet either like for a trip or of course in perpetuity yeah evergreen um making us like you know they're always giving like celebrities like the chief mom officer yeah we'll do that yeah a paid gig you called me

9:38Claudia Oshry:something yesterday in the ads of thrive market i said you're the chief brand officer maybe that's a good job for me if the ceo of thrive market wants to be businessman of the week and we're

9:49Jackie Oshry:just assuming that all major companies have CEOs who are men no if they have a CEO who's a woman

9:53Claudia Oshry:you're not eligible like this is very much like a binary segment that's amazing that you that you

10:00Jackie Oshry:did that you love to see women like in high places slay mama all the way and then you don't need

10:04Claudia Oshry:businessman of the week for your business's optics because you're probably like in a good spot with

10:08Jackie Oshry:it's kind of like the way it's kind of like how we have woman's history month but not men's history month like something like you have business man of the week but not business woman of the week

10:16Claudia Oshry:Yeah, some things just are. They need uplifting. The businessmen need uplifting.

10:21Jackie Oshry:Correct.

10:22Claudia Oshry:Yeah, I'm really excited to see what comes of this.

10:24Jackie Oshry:Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing what the future holds for BMOTW.

10:27Claudia Oshry:I feel like we're going to meet some really great businessmen.

10:29Jackie Oshry:I mean, and I didn't even know about Paul Salem yesterday, and he's literally changed my life. And Nicole Kidman, hopefully soon. In a positive way.

10:37Claudia Oshry:And if you're a celebrity who watches this show, maybe get some inspo for your next boyfriend.

10:41Jackie Oshry:Yes, of course. Although, unfortunately, a lot of the businessmen are wifed up.

10:46Claudia Oshry:Yeah.

10:47Jackie Oshry:But not in a meaningful way sometimes.

10:49Claudia Oshry:Yeah, or like formerly wifed up. But no, we're not here to like break up any marriages. Maybe we can only have. Single? Single.

10:57Jackie Oshry:Then we're really, that's like really hard to find. Like I feel like we're really pigeonholing ourselves. Yeah, we are.

11:03Claudia Oshry:We are. We'll see the natural evolution of BMOTW.

11:07Jackie Oshry:Yeah. One thing, we have to let the chips fall where they may. I can't believe people said what about business women.

11:12Claudia Oshry:Seriously. I can't believe you guys.

11:15Jackie Oshry:I know. It's like, do you not know us at all? Like, stop. Just stop.

11:23Claudia Oshry:Oh, so yeah. So yeah. That's the latest. And the greatest. Do you want to get into the stories? I do. Because I really do want to talk about Tell Me Lies. And unfortunately, we have to do the stories before we can do such a thing.

11:34Jackie Oshry:But there are a couple of stories I actually really need to talk about. And I just want to warn everyone. Hater alert. I'm kind of like hating everything today. Some days I really try to come to this show with light and positivity and be like, you know what? It's going to be great. And then, you know what? I just want to be honest.

11:48Claudia Oshry:Yeah. Our Fast Five stories are presented to you by...

11:54Jackie Oshry:Okay, Smart Mouth. If you're a coffee drinker, a garlic lover, or married to me, Smart Mouth has got you covered. Smart Mouth is the only mouthwash that's scientifically proven to give you 24 hours of fresh breath with just two rinses a day. The secret is their dual solution smart zinc technology. So as you pour, the two solutions activate billions of zinc ions that instantly eliminate bad breath and keep it away all day. It's backed by science. It's developed by dentists who literally wrote the encyclopedia on bad breath. And when you think about like the mouthwash industry, it's very much like perfume.

12:21Jackie Oshry:I don't think a lot of the companies are coming at it from like a scientific perspective, even though bad breath is science, like it's dental hygiene. And I love that the ethos, the brand ethos of smart mouth is like committed to eliminating bad breath because I don't have bad breath, of course. But I'm kind of a sniffer. I feel like bad breath, like I attract it. I don't know what it is. Everyone around me has bad breath all the time. I'm married to someone who has like the most experimental palate. And that's really challenging on a marriage. And that's why Smart Mouth has really just been a wonder for us.

12:53Jackie Oshry:Upgrade to a smarter mouthwash. Find Smart Mouth at Walgreens, Walmart, and Amazon. Or you can visit their website, smartmouth.com slash toast, and you'll snag a special discount on your next Smart Mouth purchase. That's S-M-A-R-T-M-O-U-T-H dot com slash toast. Do not miss out on 24-hour fresh breath. Your mouth and your loving wife will thank you. That's smartmouth.com slash toast. Today's episode is also brought to you by Skims, the place to shop for bras and underwear. So as I've gotten older and, you know, my body has changed, my needs when it comes to bras and underwear have changed. I'm very much a full coverage girly.

13:26Jackie Oshry:I like a very supportive minimizing bra. And Skims is the destination for all things undergarments, mostly because of their, like, size range. So I feel like a lot of us have been wearing the same bra size as we, like, got measured in middle school. And you're most likely wearing the wrong bra size. But sometimes you don't even know what your bra size is. Sometimes you don't even know that your bra size exists. And Skims, I think they have like over 60 bra sizes. So you're going to find one that fits perfectly. And whether you're looking for like a push-up bra, a t-shirt bra, a minimizing bra, they have everything.

13:53Jackie Oshry:I love their bralettes. They're from the Everybody Fits collection. They're very stretchy because I can't like walk around my house without a bra. It's just like not my lifestyle choice. But I don't want to be wearing like my full heavy-duty bra. So I get the bralettes from Skims. They keep me supported all day long. When I was breastfeeding, it was so easy to whip a titty out because they're so stretchy but also supportive. and the straps are adjustable, which if you have big boobs, like you know that that's a game changer. Their undies are fabulous. Their pajamas are fabulous. Everything they make is fabulous.

14:18Jackie Oshry:Also, they have great maternity clothes. I wore their maternity pants and long sleeve shirt like my entire pregnancy. So if you're in New York or anywhere that's like cold right now and you need like long sleeve shirts, pants, I love the Skims ones. Shop our favorite bras and underwear at skims.com. After you placed your order, be sure to let them know that we sent you. Select podcast in the survey and be sure to select the toast in the drop down menu that follows. The website is SKIMS.com and just like you're welcome, you know. Today's episode is also brought to you by BetterHelp. Thank you, BetterHelp, for sponsoring today's episode.

14:47Jackie Oshry:Sometimes it can feel like everyone else around you has it all together with their love lives. So whether you're married, dating, or single, the truth is that most of us are still figuring out and finding our way. So no matter where you are in your romantic journey, therapy can help you find your way, help you determine what you want, what feels heavy, what feels wrong, what feels right, and of course how to take some pressure off yourself. So February can be like a very triggering month. You know, it's full of flowers and candy and stuffed animals. And a lot of people are talking about dating and relationships.

15:12Jackie Oshry:So no matter where you are, whether you're married, you're dating or single, or you're just focusing on you, you're right on time. Therapy can help you find your way and see more clearly where you want to be. So therapy from BetterHelp is done entirely online. BetterHelp's therapists work according to a very strict code of conduct. They're fully licensed in the U.S. And BetterHelp has a therapist match commitment. So they do the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your goals. You fill out a short questionnaire, it'll help identify your needs, your preferences, and they have over 12 years of experience in industry-leading match fulfillment rate.

15:41Jackie Oshry:It means that they typically get it right the first time. They have over 30 ,000 therapists. They are the world's largest online therapy platform, and they have served over 6 million people globally. It really works with an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 for a live session based on over 1.7 million client reviews. So if you've been thinking about getting into therapy, this perhaps is your sign. We do have a code if you sign up at BetterHelp.com slash Toast. That link will get you 10 % off. BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com slash toast. BetterHelp.com slash T-O-A-S-T. Thank you, BetterHelp, for sponsoring today's episode.

16:14Jackie Oshry:This episode is also brought to you by Nutrafol. Women have been sold every miracle product under the sun, especially when it comes to hair, 30-day transformation, quick fixes, overnight results. None of them actually last. It's a lot of false promises, and that's why Nutrafol really stands out because it's not about hype. It's not about a quick fix. They are committed to just a simple daily routine that will support your hair health from within and the results actually build over time. So Nutrafol is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand. And it's the number one hair growth supplement brand personally used by dermatologists.

16:42Jackie Oshry:When I went through, if you ever experienced like any sort of hair issues, I experienced hair shedding a couple of years ago when I lost a lot of weight. People experience it from like the different stages of womanhood, postpartum. Everyone recommended Nutrafol to me. Their hair growth supplements are peer-reviewed, NSF certified for sport, and clinically tested to measure improvement in hair growth, quality, and strength. It's not a one-size-fits-all approach. They have a ton of different formulas. They're trying to target the root cause of why you might be having a hair issue. So like I said, mine was a change in diet, sometimes a change of environment, sometimes stress, sometimes, you know, the womanly wiles, the different stages of menopause and postpartum.

17:18Jackie Oshry:And so they are giving you support that's actually right for you. Let your hair be one less thing to worry about. See visibly thicker, stronger, faster growing hair in three to six months with Nutrafol. And for a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners$10 off their first month subscription and free shipping when you visit Nutrafol.com. And enter promo code The Toast. That's Nutrafol, N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L.com. Promo code The Toast. Nutrafol.com. Promo code T-H-E-T-O-A-S-T.

17:44Claudia Oshry:Thank you, T-U-R-T. You're welcome. them first story Miley Cyrus will return for the Hannah Montana 20th anniversary special set to be released in March on Disney plus so Miley is celebrating 20 years of Hannah calling it the Hannahversary she will be participating in a Hannah Montana 20th anniversary special on Disney plus so it will feature it will be filmed in front of a live studio audience and will feature an interview with Miley hosted by Alex Cooper she will revisit iconic moments from the show as well never-before-seen footage and recreations of the show's sets. Disney also promises that, quote, there will also be some familiar notes that find their way back into the spotlight.

18:24Jackie Oshry:Oh, great. Can't wait to see a never-before-seen footage. Like, that's not what the people want. Like, Miley is, oh, I'm sorry. Like, I'm hating this. Miley is always, like, dangling Hannah in front of us, and she's been posting so much about the 20th anniversary, the wig. And so, girl, all we want is for you to put the wig on and sing. Like, that's all we want. We want the songs. We want the music. People love the show, of course. But like we want Hannah Montana, the pop star. Oh, great. We're going to recreate the sets. Like I'm good. Yeah. This would have been nice. Like paired with a concert or a tour or like a DVD or something.

18:55Jackie Oshry:Like, I'm sorry, this sucks. It's like the Friends reunion. And the Friends reunion was like not my favorite. It was like live studio audience, like talking about the fun memories. But it was cool to see the Friends back together. Like the show about like Hannah and Lily and Oliver, like great. But that's not what people love. It's the music. It is the music.

19:11Claudia Oshry:I would love to hear her up there singing the hits, shaking that thing.

19:15Jackie Oshry:I need like a backyard sessions. Remember her like old YouTube series where she's just singing Hannah?

19:19Claudia Oshry:And like stripping them down.

19:20Jackie Oshry:Yeah. This is life. Fine. Don't even wear the wig, okay? Like all of the things about Hannah Montana like are great. The sets, the people, the footage, sure. But it's really the music that like carried the generation through. And it's what people miss. She might say no. They did not say that. They said they're recreating the sets, watching old footage, and taking a look back. Okay.

19:40Claudia Oshry:There might be some familiar notes that find their way. Notes. That's a weird thing to say. Are they withholding?

19:47Jackie Oshry:Musical notes. Are they withholding that she's going to sing? Because to me, that's the pull.

19:52Claudia Oshry:Yeah. It's weird because a bigger fan of Hannah Montana you could not find than me.

19:58Jackie Oshry:Than our family, by the way?

19:59Claudia Oshry:I could not have watched that show backwards. It shaped me as a person. So this is for the fans. For you. This is for me. this doesn't do any i don't need to hear behind the scenes what happened on the set of the show

20:13Jackie Oshry:that i watched 20 years ago it was like a show for kids there's not going to be drama not like that tea you know it's not tea so i don't really know what this does and you're right miley's

20:24Claudia Oshry:always dangling hannah every time she gets a haircut with bangs yeah hannah every time she

20:28Jackie Oshry:gets a haircut it's a hannah tease every time she releases new music it's a hannah tease every time she's like cleaning out her closet it's a hannah like she has dangled it in front of us for so long. She does give us like little crimes. I know she sings The Climb live a lot, like on her shows and tours, but like she's overarchingly giving us, given us nothing except that she is, thinks very fondly of Hannah, which is nice. Now, this is really not enough for me. Now, again, I can acknowledge like I have a high bar. Cause like you said, like love Hannah, like Hannah shaped us. Like I know everywhere.

20:57Jackie Oshry:I just, I sometimes listen to Hannah Montana in the car and I still know every line to every word, every word to every line. Um, so yes, my bar is high, but like, I don't need a sit down interview with Miley. Like maybe in addition to the concert, this is just not what I need. If she did like a lot, you know what they should have done? They should have done like a live show at like the Hollywood bowl where they streamed it live on Disney plus. Like people could buy tickets, like an in-person thing where like she either performs as Hannah or like Miley, you know, reflecting on Hannah and she could talk about, you know, maybe the, this, the, the, the tour stage is like designed like her Malibu house.

21:28Jackie Oshry:and maybe she'll talk in between songs about maybe Lily will come out and sing a song like sure but the music not being the center of this like I'm so out I just don't think there's like a even

21:39Claudia Oshry:a good way to do something like this like it's just a moment that's gone you know and can't we

21:44Jackie Oshry:just accept that like no I don't think she has to accept it like I think there is a way to honor

21:48Claudia Oshry:it and this is not it I I don't know what do I need from Hannah now 20 years on I need her to

21:54Jackie Oshry:saying yeah I guess like that's that's the only thing I need from Hannah right now yeah I don't

22:00Claudia Oshry:know I like so this is for me I don't know if I will get around to watching it it depends what what the meat is one the same but two maybe there are interesting stories that I don't even know I

22:11Jackie Oshry:would be interested by I don't think her dad is going to be involved I think he will be there in a good place and if he's not that's yeah I don't know why I just like I don't see it for him i think he's like very polarizing and then the whole river rose fire rose that did you hear her voicemail or not voicemail like her secret recording about it yeah it was bad um and yes him and miley are like a little touch and go so i think it's probably like you know and oliver is in the slammer for meth or something yeah so it's like we actually don't need anything besides hannah okay yeah and i feel like her and emily ozman are actually not friends and emily's

22:44Claudia Oshry:really the only if we don't get jackson rico if we don't get jackson and throw it in the garbage

22:52Jackie Oshry:and if we we were doing like a concert style format we could have gotten like rico and jackson's beef jerky song like there's so much to be done like this is such a shame jackson we need Jackson

23:09Claudia Oshry:I think maybe Moises he's a little too he's very artsy Moises he's like a photographer

23:15Jackie Oshry:you mean 490TX I do think Moises would go back there

23:21Claudia Oshry:this element is interesting to me like who will participate in what capacity if there isn't a song to be sung I agree throw it in the garbage but beyond that I don't know it just makes me feel old

23:35Jackie Oshry:Who hosted the Friends reunion? Was it James Corden? Yeah, I'm just, because this is like the most similar format They do a lot of like Classic shows, reunions It was James Corden Classic shows like reunions or reboots Like they always do something And Friends was the first one to like kind of veer from the Template And they did this like interview type thingy-majig And so this feels like the most similar to that That's why I keep comparing it It's just like, okay.

24:06Claudia Oshry:The good news is, though, is like I love Miley. Yeah. I love a Miley interview. So this is also that. Yeah. And I think, you know what? It depends on what I'm up to in late March. But like I think I'll give this a shot.

24:20Jackie Oshry:Yes. No, I definitely have plans to watch it. And I guess my expectations are so low. Like maybe I'll enjoy it. But this is just not what the fans want.

24:26Claudia Oshry:I feel like there was nothing they could have announced that would like just capture what it was. Because it was a moment in time. It's fleeting and it's gone.

24:33Jackie Oshry:I feel like you're not giving my concert idea like any, you would love that.

24:37Claudia Oshry:I would, but like it would just make me feel old, I think. Like to watch us being old, like, I don't know. I think it would make me feel. Reemacting the glory days.

24:45Jackie Oshry:No, I feel like it would make, like I look back on, I don't even think of like Hannah Montana as the glory days. Does she have to put on the wig to sing the song? I don't care. I don't think she does. I think of it as like really the soundtrack of my childhood in such a positive way. It reminds me of my family. And like it's so, it doesn't make me feel sad at all. It makes me feel like grateful. And so like if she could just honor that, like the show was amazing, of course. Like it's not about that. I like your backyard sessions idea. I mean, bring back the backyard. What was it called? Backyard sessions?

25:13Jackie Oshry:Backyardians. Yeah.

25:14Claudia Oshry:It was backyard sessions. So good. Jolene. Bring back backyard sessions and the bun. If we can get the bun. And a bun, yeah. And sing Hannah songs in the new Miley fashion. That would be pargy.

25:25Jackie Oshry:Yeah. I mean, she could have brought out Dolly to do a collab. She's always bringing out Dolly. Yeah. Who else was on the show? Brooke Shields. Who guest starred on the show?

25:35Claudia Oshry:You know who was on the show that was like when we were talking about him, we couldn't remember like how we knew him, but it's actually from Manhattan, Montana. Who? Kind of dark, but Rob Reiner. He was in an episode of Montana.

25:46Jackie Oshry:Yes, he was. Was he playing himself? I think so. Yes, he was. Honestly, his kids must have been fans. That's how like Brooke Shields says like she didn't even know the show.

25:54Claudia Oshry:Larry David was on it with his daughter.

25:56Jackie Oshry:Yes, because the kids were fans. Dream. Like that's where being an Apple baby like is actually unfair. Like I'm fucking fair. I agree.

26:03Claudia Oshry:You got to meet Hannah and Miley and be on the show. Best of both. Oh, and what about. Jake Ryan and Austin Butler. He won't be there.

26:16Jackie Oshry:Jake Ryan is not Austin Butler. Was Austin Butler on Hannah Montana?

26:19Claudia Oshry:He was.

26:20Jackie Oshry:No, he was on Zoe 101.

26:21Claudia Oshry:Yeah, a small role.

26:22Jackie Oshry:No, he just looked like Jake Ryan.

26:24Claudia Oshry:Okay. And what about Jesse? so to me and like awesome butler was on hannah montana who did he play just like it wasn't a major role okay it wasn't like a love interest was it uncredited role okay are you sure he was on like

26:39Jackie Oshry:derrick hansen in one episode so he was literally an extra like that doesn't count okay you were

26:44Claudia Oshry:confusing him with jake ryan no no i wasn't but i know that he's like credited when people talk about his past as being on hannah montana and not as jake ryan so i just thought he was like a boyfriend at one point.

26:54Jackie Oshry:Roxy like a puma better show up. Yeah, she really influenced us. Like, we were always saying that as kids. Yeah. And what about the girl who said, don't worry, Hannah. We'll keep your secret. She's from the movie. There will be movie elements. Oh, well, if the movie's in it, then we have so many more people. Lucas 2. Vanessa Williams. Vanessa motherfucking Williams. Tyra Banks. Uh-huh. Also, who's the actress? Jan from The Office. Jan from The Office and the woman from Secretariat. Oh, and Rascal Flatts. Ah, they should come out and sing Bless It. See, if we programmed this, like, we would have made it, like, really for the fans.

27:35Jackie Oshry:Like, this to me, I feel like Miley, like, deviated from Disney. And in recent years, she's, like, very much back in the Disney family. She got a Disney Honors Award. And so I feel like her doing this, like, maybe it's not her preference on how to honor the show. but like she's back in Disney's good graces and like maybe one day we will get I'm just so desperate like you will not yeah what what's due to us but I also don't think Miley does anything she doesn't

27:59Claudia Oshry:want to do yeah if she wasn't about this she wouldn't do it so I don't think it's like Bob Iger not businessman so let's like oh he if he if this went off like without a hitch yeah he could

28:12Jackie Oshry:be businessman of the week is Bob Iger like was a businessman of a decade we talked about him incessantly on this show because he was like the only businessman we knew for like the first five years of this show so he's gotten his flowers he has i also don't think he's at disney anymore no and then he came back he came back and then he's still there he left and came back right yes that sounds very like needy and greg and i feel like he's the ceo we're so like no he's not he's like a chairman yeah he's like fancy chairman he's so rich chairman bob I gotta be the chairman of something, you know? The toast.

28:45Jackie Oshry:Okay, you'll let me. Sure. That would make me your boss. You're fired.

28:53Jackie Oshry:Okay, well, like, I would love to be wrong. I just want to say that. But all in all, it's just not what I would have preferred.

28:58Claudia Oshry:Yeah, it doesn't really scratch the itch for me. I mean, I feel like I will never be scratched.

29:03Jackie Oshry:Yeah, because, like, I've gone back and watched Hannah. It's on Disney+. And, like, it hits. But it just, like, you're right. It was a moment in time. But I just want to say, like, I think for a lot of girls our age, like looking back on it, like it does not make me feel sad. It doesn't make me feel old. It really makes me feel like happy and grateful. And like, look, like Hannah raised us. She really did.

29:21Claudia Oshry:She really did. So let's let's hear from Hannah. Let's see. I'm going to give her a shot here, what she has to say. But I just want to like go on record saying I wasn't asking for this. I wasn't waiting for this.

29:30Jackie Oshry:And if we were going to get something to honor the 20th anniversary, like it was not an interview style look back. Yeah. At the sets. Like I'm good. And I follow the girl on TikTok who lives in the Malibu house. So, you know, they had a picture of the outside of the Malibu house and they would, ooh, and they were like showing it from the back. The inside was obviously like a fake set. But she lives, her grandparents own the house.

29:51Claudia Oshry:Well, I would love to hear how they came up with some of those rips for between scenes.

29:55Jackie Oshry:Maybe that's the notes they're referring to.

29:56Claudia Oshry:Where did that come from? Ooh, yeah.

30:00Jackie Oshry:I love it. If they have the footage of her recording that, I would find that interesting.

30:05Claudia Oshry:There's potential. and the more we talk about it, the more I'm open but when I saw this, I'm like, move on everyone. No, I don't agree. We can move forward and honor Hannah, but without

30:20Jackie Oshry:killing her, beating her to death.

30:22Claudia Oshry:I don't know what's right for Hannah. I don't know what's right for her.

30:26Jackie Oshry:Maybe it's this. Maybe we're wrong. I'm very open to being wrong.

30:30Claudia Oshry:I'm going to give it a shot though. The more we talk about it, the more potential I see and you're right, it does center around the music so she better up there be up there shaking that thing. Big time. And that wig. Yeah. Are you ready for our next story? Uh-huh. Hilary Duff is making a rare comment on her complicated family dynamic.

30:46Jackie Oshry:Yes, I saw her opening up in Glamour Magazine.

30:48Claudia Oshry:Yeah, so she sat down with Glamour Magazine. She touched on her riff with her sister Haley.

30:53Jackie Oshry:And Ashley Tisdale.

30:53Claudia Oshry:And her father. And why she wrote about it in two of her new songs.

30:58Jackie Oshry:I wouldn't know because I don't listen to her new music.

31:00Claudia Oshry:Right, I just know about the one with the blowjob. Correct. That one I heard. Becca, there's an end of giving your head. Something like that. She said, quote, that's my family. Those are the people that affect you the most, take up the most space naturally as a human who's born into something. Well, true. Just because you're born into a family doesn't mean that it always stays together. You can only control your side of the street. She acknowledged that she's had a very complicated life and said that her parents have a very complicated dynamic as well. They are divorced. I know it's not rare, and I think it goes back to the theme of why share now?

31:34Claudia Oshry:I guess I just felt ready she said well that makes it even sadder that her and Haley aren't

31:40Jackie Oshry:close and like actually hate one another because if they did grow up in this sort of like unstable toxic environment like your sister your sibling like that's your life raft yeah and so like they're all on the fritz like that's really sad especially because they were so close for so long like yeah got through hard times and then she also said she was like um talking about like friends she's made as a mom and she was like it's been really surprising that like a lot of the friends I made later in life like through motherhood are like the deepest, most amazing friendships, even though I haven't known them so long.

32:06Jackie Oshry:But then you also like start to prioritize like being around people whose values align with yours. It's giving politics. You think so? Yeah. That's like what people say.

32:16Claudia Oshry:Yeah. There's a lot of kinds of values, especially when it comes to parenting.

32:21Jackie Oshry:Raising. Yes, that's true. Or it could be like maybe she's referring to like politics or parenting style. Yeah.

32:27Claudia Oshry:Like the gentle parent. Right.

32:29Jackie Oshry:Like maybe Ashley Tisall props up an iPad.

32:31Claudia Oshry:There's a lot of things it could be I agree it doesn't rule out politics Right But

32:36Jackie Oshry:They're never beating the political allegations

32:37Claudia Oshry:Right but also like Politics also can spill over into other things Where it's more so like

32:42Jackie Oshry:Right you parent this way because of your politics

32:44Claudia Oshry:Vibes Right So But I feel like If you take a step back and stop trying to like Zero in on these two Like if you said Someone is not your motherhood friend Because of like your values don't align Like you would understand what that meant Right?

32:59Jackie Oshry:Yeah I would if I said that I would mean that like we just parent really differently yeah and like yeah

33:05Claudia Oshry:that's what I would mean if I said that so I understand that statement it doesn't have to be like well she voted for this one and they right our values as parents don't align and if your

33:14Jackie Oshry:values as parents don't align like you probably also voted for different people well yes right like yes yeah um very sad Hillary um I've made it on I'm like on Hillary talk okay she's still doing this like very small tour um she looks so beautiful she's styled to perfection like i don't know who's like she's not wearing like typical tour outfits she's not wearing like you know a bodysuit she's just wearing like really chic pretty outfits um and she wears a different one that's like the beauty of being on this like little small tour like she just she's done like 20 shows and she's gonna wear 20 outfits like it's not and she looks so cute and pretty and she's singing so good and she's just like really well adjusted it's nice to see you don't see that a lot and she never had a period publicly she might have like battled behind closed doors but she never had that like

34:00Claudia Oshry:stereotypical which is also surprising considering now we're hearing about like her family drama

34:04Jackie Oshry:tough home life yeah yeah and that usually lends itself to like some sort of spiral publicly especially as you transition from child start to adult but the child's doing okay today this this child i actually attribute a lot of hillary duff's like stability to younger i feel like that

34:23Claudia Oshry:was a really important bridge for her yeah not even by then she was like grown yes but like it stopped her it really her ability to transition and continue working yeah from like raise your voice even though who would ever want to leave where's the raise your voice 20th anniversary

34:41Jackie Oshry:special where hillary duff sits on a stage going

34:54Claudia Oshry:the reason why we need that is because we know nothing about raise your voice behind the scenes it's like a steel trap you know we've heard from hannah over the years we even back in the day like we there were interviews you know disney channel.com like but this was just like a movie This was a movie we don't know anything about.

35:12Jackie Oshry:Also. Who wrote it? Did you see that Hilary Duff was actually reunited with her, where's your voice mom, Rita Wilson? No. They took a picture. I don't know if Rita went to her show or something. They saw one another and took a picture, and it was seriously the best photo I've ever seen in my life. Rita Wilson is low-key in everything, and she's also a country star.

35:28Claudia Oshry:We needed to see her with John Corbett. Was that the dad? No, he was the teacher. Oh, of course. The singer teacher. Right. Who were her parents? They weren't really in it. She went to boarding school, right?

35:38Jackie Oshry:No, they kicked her out because like, oh no. The brother. The brother sent in the tape to go to the music school.

35:45Claudia Oshry:Yeah, so like the parents were kind of irrelevant.

35:48Jackie Oshry:Alan what? Wilson, I don't know him.

35:50Claudia Oshry:Rita's brother? Rita and Alan Wilson? Dad from Raise Your Voice. No, the parents were insignificant.

36:01Jackie Oshry:I know I make mistakes, I live my life. By the way, have we ever put together that Raise Your Voice was directed by Sean McNamara?

36:09Claudia Oshry:Yes. Okay. Yes, we have. Okay.

36:11Jackie Oshry:I love him. We need a Sean McNamara documentary. Everything Sean McNamara has made is perfect.

36:18Claudia Oshry:It's very, very true. We've done this before, but I think we need to do it again. I agree. Okay. Raise Your Voice, of course. Brats.

36:31Claudia Oshry:Claudia, we have to have him on the toast.

36:33Jackie Oshry:The Suite Life movie.

36:37Claudia Oshry:oh remember the movie baby geniuses oh we loved that movie yeah he did that of course we did

36:41Jackie Oshry:that's like oh bring it on fight to the finish i don't know that one is that sharks for jets no do you want to hear the funny and then wait also um legally blondes remember those two twins from

36:51Claudia Oshry:disney yeah yeah it's like the go-to for he's an extremely decorated he also did a couple of casper movies oh and then of course bow artists at war the holocaust movie that we were doing ads for yes directed by sean mcnamara yeah that's why he's on my brain who also did brats yeah king king range do you want to know something so funny when um olivia did the toast with me we were talking about something about the jets and i like made a joke sharks versus jets and she was like what's that and i was like oh this like bring it on where it's like sharks versus

37:26Jackie Oshry:jets cheerleading like an extremely turnt bring it on that's exactly what i said bring it on seven

37:31Claudia Oshry:whatever sharks first jets so claudine i say everything sharks first jets but apparently sharks first jets is from west side story yes oh you didn't know the original like no now that sounds familiar but like bring it on seven was referencing west side story yes bring it on seven is like a modern adaptation of west side story not a lot of people don't see that but it is like how clueless is like jane austen it's exactly like that yeah yes yeah yeah the lion king is hamlet correct bring it on seven is west side story yeah yeah so that was funny that i learned that yeah are you ready for our next story brianna chicken fry went on impulsive podcast actually making a lot of news from this podcast yes so she's discussing zach bryan's new marriage and

38:20Jackie Oshry:friendship dissolution with grace which i literally like i'm i'm over zach brian like i love what she did for us like letting him know like we all know who he is like i don't need to hear from her on zach brian i feel like the more interesting thing is her relationship with grace because like there was a two-week period where everyone on the planet was talking about them yeah and like their friendship breakup and there was everyone was team grace like that's when brianna really became the villain she was like riding this high of like being beloved by everyone after telling everyone about zach brian the 12 million dollars turning it down um and then i think people also really understood like how her and grace had started to drift apart.

38:52Jackie Oshry:She was in this really toxic relationship and you probably weren't being like the best friend you could be. Um, and everyone took grace's side in the friendship breakup. I feel like that was like bad for Brianna's Q score. Like everyone was loving her after the Zach Ryan thing. And then it went completely downhill. I just want to say I was never like a hundred percent team grace because I kind of saw, and this is exactly what Brianna said. Like she said, when people started like speculating that there was beef between them and then really started to like send Brianna a lot of hate while Brianna was dealing with this abusive relationship that Grace knew about nobody knew about it but Grace did Brianna was like can you tell like people to like fuck off a little bit like this is a podcast that Brianna started that Brianna made you know popular and then gave Grace a job at and then gave Grace a platform people started to really like Grace they were like you know like us like a Jackie and Claudia you're like a Grace or a Brie and like there are a lot of friendships that mimic that and then she kind of like created this monster in Grace where like Grace was getting more hype and everybody loved Grace and when Brianna was like really you know going through it Brianna was like can you just like tell everyone like we're

39:53Claudia Oshry:good like everyone's like especially because they were they were like coming at Brianna on Grace's behalf yeah it's like it's very easy to be like no Bri and I are great like please stop and also is the fans of their show it's not just like haters like it was their own fans like turning on Bri for the sake of Grace so if Grace could have been the quickest way to end it and be like Like, no, we're good. Stop. Like, please stop sending hate.

40:14Jackie Oshry:And Brianna said on this podcast that Grace, like, said no. Now, I do give Grace a little grace because, like, she was so new. There's no easy way to navigate, like, what they, like, the TikTok drama. It became so big. There's no right way to navigate that. Maybe if you're, like, five, ten years in this business, you know what to do. But she was literally a year into it. She was, like, unemployed before. No one knows how to handle it. So I give her a little bit of grace. But like she should have defended her friend, especially when at that point her friend had done so much for her, like given her a job, gotten her a job at Barstool.

40:44Claudia Oshry:It feels like basic like friendship, even if you're on the schoolyard, someone's bullying your friend. You say, hey, that's my friend. Yeah. It feels like you don't have to be in this business for so long to just like and it's not like you're even putting yourself out there. Everyone loves you. Yeah. Everyone loves us. But then all you say is like, no, like, please stop. Bri and I are good. What you're saying is just unwarranted. Right. That's it.

41:06Jackie Oshry:And then the interesting thing was, was like, I remember us talking about their friendship breakup and the podcast breakup being like, this is so interesting because like the drama is so big, but the podcast was not that big. Like it's very outsized. And when they both like split up and then it was a big drama that she went to unwell. Remember, I was like very interested to see if either of their individual projects were going to take off in a meaningful way because their shared project like wasn't even that big. It was just so crazy how big the drama came. I think it was like the Zach Ryan of it all.

41:34Jackie Oshry:and now she does a podcast and it was like all the people who were like gassing up grace weren't really doing it for grace i think they were doing it because they hated brianna because grace's podcast i don't even know if they still do it it wasn't like it wasn't like she had all these fans it was like they really let the internet come between them like in a real way yeah and i think they could have gotten past it but then what brianna said on this podcast it's like you know they're home friends they have like a whole group of friends outside of internet people we don't know like college friends high school friends hometown friends who like are getting married like they still see each other out a lot and she says great she literally said grace is evil she said like grace won't talk to me she's telling everyone like she hates me when like brianna has said like maybe there was room to reconcile but grace says like no um and now brianna says no

42:21Claudia Oshry:yeah no now like they're done we will never be friends and i think there was a period where like

42:25Jackie Oshry:interviewers would like ask brianna brianna does a lot of interviews grace doesn't they were asking Brianna like oh your friendship breakup and she was like very political about it you know leaving room being like I just want what's best for greats like we're not talking right now but like we're good yeah and now it's like I hate her she hates me she's evil she thinks I'm evil like it's bad the gloves are off and I guess that was the catalyst for that was like them having you know interactions at like you know engagement parties life things of your hometown friends um that went really poorly yeah so that's that on that like it was kind of interesting though like from a podcast perspective to see like uh people weren't comparing it at the time to like call her daddy right like the breaking up but call her daddy at that time I was doing like a million downloads an episode it was the biggest show in the world it was on top of the charts on top of Joe Rogan like it was the biggest show in the world so it was the biggest show in the world breaks up it's the biggest story in the world this was just like two girls yeah but it became so big and it was like and if you even listen to the podcast right and i think that like the answer was no because both i'm brina doesn't even have a podcast anymore and i don't even know if grace does yeah they ended

43:30Claudia Oshry:bffs but i think right it still does plan plan brie like i solo yeah i think in some capacity

43:37Jackie Oshry:there okay no plan brie well the drama was bigger than the show grace doesn't still have a podcast

43:43Claudia Oshry:she might like i don't know okay the point is that you don't know correct um like i know she

43:48Jackie Oshry:does stand up but like based on how people were just like gassing her up and like hating on you would think that like she's out you know yeah well a different lesson that i think you have to

43:57Claudia Oshry:like learn the hard way and it's not something that's so clear it's like to not let the internet like affect your real life yeah that's something that like more years of experience might have they

44:07Jackie Oshry:might have known that so i feel like maybe brianna knew it like but grace was so new and that's why

44:12Claudia Oshry:i really can't fault her like when everyone's like telling you that you're so great and brianna's mean to you terrible and she's such a bad friend like it's hard to not listen to that um and so maybe she believed and that's why she didn't stand up for Brie because she believed it and

44:24Jackie Oshry:Brianna now talks about it very openly and I actually would love to hear Grace's POV like have we not she went on Theo Vaughn did she but I think that was when they were still in the period of like we're not friends we might not ever be but like we're good it was like very civilized and now something I think happened we're like they hate each other with home friends and like yeah people

44:45Claudia Oshry:against each other yeah such a weird dynamic and it's really sad to me I remember when it happened And I felt very sad about it. I don't feel as sad now because like now they're just grown women. Yeah. But they just felt like like girls who like came into this world together and they had each other.

45:00Jackie Oshry:And like really grew up very, very regular. Like and this was like their big break and they could have been huge. It was a devastating story about how like the internet is so cruel.

45:10Claudia Oshry:And Zach Bryan. Like yes, Brie wasn't a good friend and she chose him over Grace. But like also she was young and impressionable.

45:18Jackie Oshry:In an abusive relationship with a rock star. Right.

45:20Claudia Oshry:Going through her heart.

45:20Jackie Oshry:So like I give her grace for that also. No, it was like a crazy saga.

45:25Claudia Oshry:It was and it still is. Yeah. Now they just like both operate in the internet sphere, which isn't like huge. And at their friends' weddings. Correct. The two influencer friends who hate each other.

45:35Jackie Oshry:Honestly, it would have been sadder if one of them was booted from the hometown group. Like that would have been wrong. You know? If then suddenly Grace doesn't get invited to anyone's wedding. It also makes you feel like not one of them is so clearly in the wrong.

45:48Claudia Oshry:because if they were like their other friends would have taken a side and been like how could you do that correct that's a good point so it's just to hurt people hurting people yeah i'm kind

45:57Jackie Oshry:of ready for the grace sit down like brianna's been very open i saw her on a red carpet also talking about it more like she doesn't give a fuck anymore i'm telling you something happened

46:04Claudia Oshry:um so i'd love to hear grace's pov yeah this would be a good show you know like tell me lies yes two small town girls yes get into like influence wait they should shop it maybe that's a project that brings them back together no and then Brianna like further apart because it's like

46:21Jackie Oshry:more fame oh yeah no it's also like are we telling your version or mine like Ashley Tisdale or yeah but the concept and then like one of them starts dating like John Mayer you know like yeah I love

46:30Claudia Oshry:that and then it comes between them and the show and tell me lies people should do it it's like a

46:34Jackie Oshry:combination like tell me lies nobody wants I was gonna say that I want to say like Anna Delvey

46:42Claudia Oshry:because that just started as a story that got picked up. Just a free idea. I don't have the time to do it because I have a lot going on.

46:51Jackie Oshry:But I would watch it. We have the time to watch it, not to make it.

46:54Claudia Oshry:Yeah, and support it. And if you guys want to bounce any ideas off me, I'm around for that. But beyond that, I can't participate.

47:02Jackie Oshry:Free idea.

47:03Claudia Oshry:Free idea.

47:04Jackie Oshry:Don't call me.

47:06Claudia Oshry:Seriously, don't call me. And that goes for everyone. I will never pick up your call. Except me, obviously. Oh, no. FaceTime is fine. Yeah. Family memory. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

47:15Jackie Oshry:FaceTime is good.

47:15Claudia Oshry:Other people, like, seriously, do not call me.

47:18Jackie Oshry:And I feel like I'm getting more calls than ever. I agree. It's insane. Are you ready for our next story? If it's our next story that's brought to you by the Container Store, does your home or schedule feel a little chaotic lately? We'll head to the Container Store where they can help. They don't just sell containers, but they do sell containers. I just want to make that clear. They sell other stuff, too. Amazing stuff, but they also sell amazing containers. Their experts help you create systems that actually work for your space. when everything has a place it's amazing how much calmer your day feels so from closets or kitchens garages to home offices the container store has been helping people get organized for almost 50 years you know our sister olivia um i was actually really because i'm a very clean organized person i have no clutter in my home or um anywhere um my sister olivia you know she recently took on the project of cleaning out her garage and i thought that was wonderful don't you

48:01Claudia Oshry:think she feels lighter oh yeah she doesn't stop talking about it she does she was like should we have dinner in my garage like that new shelving system that i got in my closet i do container store everything from the container store they're on instacart they are on instacart um they have

48:15Jackie Oshry:the best selection of quality organizers expert service there is no better option they are just like ogs in helping people declutter their life because obviously like clutter is clutter right but it's also clutter of the mind you are your space and so you know do you want to be messy do you want to be organized the question is yours it's very simple visit containerstore.com slash toast for a special discount to use online or at any location of the container store that's containerstore.com slash T-O-A-S-T for a special discount in store and online. Today's episode is also brought to you by Taylor Farms Chop Salad Kit.

48:46Jackie Oshry:So obviously eating salad is good for you, like your insides, but it's also really good for your outsides. Like everyone's going to be talking about like, oh my God, is that the girl who's eating a salad?

48:54Claudia Oshry:And she has a nice looking salad.

48:55Jackie Oshry:Yeah, and it just like, it makes you feel better than other people and that's worth it alone. But eating salads can be really hard. They sometimes don't taste good and they're not really convenient, like having to chop everything. but enter Taylor Farms chop salad kits. Like you're good. You don't have to chop anything. You don't have to wash anything. It is pre-washed. You don't have to take it out of the bag if you don't want to. Now I know what you're thinking, Turdy. Salad in a bag? No. This is not your grandma's salad in a bag. It is so fresh. It is so crisp. They have amazing recipes. So they do the classics, right?

49:22Jackie Oshry:Like the sort of standard Caesar. But they also have some flavors that are defying boring. They're also a-fying boring. They've got everything. I'm going to gaslight me. Yeah, they have five boring. I don't know what you're talking about. They have a Mediterranean crunch an avocado ranch salad in Asian. What's your favorite one? You know me. Like when it comes to salads, like I'm very particular, just a Caesar. But like Ben lives for the sweet kale, the pizza ranch. Like the more crazy the flavor, that's what Ben likes. So we keep them stacked. Yes, and they are individual size, but you can also get the big ones, put a bunch in a bowl for like a dinner party.

49:54Jackie Oshry:Because like you have to serve a salad at the dinner party. Nobody's eating it, but you have to serve it.

49:57Claudia Oshry:You have to serve it.

49:59Jackie Oshry:You can do it. Grab a Taylor Farms Chop Salad Kit today and get your salad together. Today's episode is also brought to you by Gold Bond. Here's a quick check-in, everybody. Take a look down at your hands. How are they doing? Between the cold weather, the incested hand washing, and just life in general, ours were dry and begging for help. And then entered Gold Bond's new scented hand creams. They give you clinically shown 24-hour hydration, plus skin-loving benefits that come in four amazing scents, which make moisturizing feel like a tiny luxury moment instead of a chore. Each one is formulated to keep your hands looking and feeling their best.

50:28Jackie Oshry:They're perfect for on-the-go hydration. I keep one in my bag. I actually have one in my little pouch right here. desk, studio, car, and I'm in like the car all the day.

50:37Claudia Oshry:Club, bus, another club. And the nice thing is like

50:39Jackie Oshry:you don't have to put it on a thousand times a day. They have Vanilla Dream, Floral Bloom, Citrus, Pop, and Cedar Rain. Cedar Rain is what I have in my bag right now. It's very refreshing. It has aloe, vitamin E. It's perfect for a little gift. Maybe give it to your co-worker. It's like a nice, you know, relaxing spa moment throughout the day. Or if you just want to give yourself a little reset throughout the day. If your hands need hydration that actually lasts and you love a good scent, this is your sign. Shop Gold Bond's new scented hand creams now on Amazon. and as always, use as directed.

51:04Claudia Oshry:Thank you, Turd is directed. I'm a director, much like Sean McNamara. Oh, if only you could have a career as story this is.

51:12Jackie Oshry:Fingers crossed.

51:13Claudia Oshry:Our next story, some businessman news. Massimo Giannulli steps out with a much younger stylist.

51:19Jackie Oshry:Whatever the opposite of businessman of the week is, is Massimo, like...

51:22Claudia Oshry:After his breakup from Lori Loughlin. So Massimo Giannulli, ex-husband of Lori Loughlin, father of Olivia Jade, is spotted with a new lady love. Her name is Hannah Harrison and she is a stylist. How old is she? She is younger, unclear, 32. And he is? 62.

51:43Jackie Oshry:That's really yucky, especially when you have like daughters around that age.

51:48Claudia Oshry:Yeah.

51:49Jackie Oshry:I literally hate Mossimo Giannulli.

51:52Claudia Oshry:Maybe she's consulting on his new line?

51:54Jackie Oshry:Sure.

51:56Claudia Oshry:She doesn't look like she's dressed as a consultant. Let me see. She looks like she's like having morning after coffee with her man.

52:02Jackie Oshry:Like imagine fumbling Lori Loughlin. Like imagine Lori Loughlin like taking the L for you and your family. I just, like I think he's disgusting.

52:12Claudia Oshry:And like fumbling your family. Like what a family.

52:14Jackie Oshry:She literally looks like she'd be friends with like Olivia.

52:20I can't lie.

52:20Jackie Oshry:Like he's extremely good looking. He kind of looks like David Beckham, don't you think? Look at that picture. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. A little bit. I'm just not here for it. Definitely candidate for Weenie of the Week. Go home to your family and stop it.

52:37Claudia Oshry:Yeah. Go home, Massimo.

52:39Jackie Oshry:Do not come.

52:41Claudia Oshry:Yeah.

52:42Jackie Oshry:Are you ready for our fifth and final story? And I just hope Lori Loughlin is getting dicked down with Paul Salem. Okay?

52:49Claudia Oshry:She needs Paul Salem.

52:51Jackie Oshry:She actually went businessman and it went south. And that's the thing about Massimo that's so frustrating. It's like when you choose a businessman. You're supposed to be getting all the things. what he did was so the antithesis of like why we suggest a businessman bow for women in hollywood um so he's like the failed experiment he's the exception not the rule of course of course so i hope she continues actually at this rate though like she doesn't need like a stable she just needs to have fun yeah whatever let her hair down laurie wants maybe like jacob lordy has like a friend for her that's what she needs her and olivia be going on like double dates okay

53:27Claudia Oshry:our fifth and final story is tell me lies recap so the tell me lies creator is diving into the finale and explaining why the show is ending she said we couldn't fuck it up yeah so Megan Oppenheimer who's the creator of tell me lies gave an interview explaining why this season is the

53:46Jackie Oshry:final season and I like how they dropped it like the day before that it's not like we were waiting all that's kind of better like that was clearly an intentional choice when I was confused by But ultimately, I like.

53:56Claudia Oshry:And it also helped. If we knew that this was the last episode coming up, we would know that things are almost over. It would almost be a spoiler. Like, oh, we're not getting more wedding. Like, knowing that, it was like, oh, okay, so this wraps this up. We were even talking about it, how there's going to be a second half of second semester. But no, like, second semester is over. We learned a lot in knowing that the series was ending. So she said, I went into this season saying, we are going to wrap things up and give a satisfying ending and then see what happens. I always felt like three seasons was a perfect number.

54:27Claudia Oshry:I always knew that I wanted the final downfall in college to culminate with whatever happens at the end of the wedding weekend. Yeah, the last episode was so crazy. Now I watched the two of them back to back. So some of it, like it's gonna, I don't remember what was in the finale, but spoilers from here on out.

54:42Jackie Oshry:So let's talk about the ending. People are interpreting it one of two ways. And to me, there's like literally only one way. But so, you know, she gets in the car with him, like and they stop for coffee and he literally abandons her on the side of the road and she the show ends with her laughing and a lot of people like myself I was like well of course like he disappointed you one last time but at this point like you've hung on for so long he's actually not interested anymore and like jokes on you like of course she got in the car now other people are like well no why she was laughing was because she's finally free she let Stephen think that he is choosing to get away kind of how like Diana did it like Diana you have to let's put the the advice Diana gave Lucy is like to unravel yourself from Steven, it has to, you have to make him think it's his idea.

55:26Jackie Oshry:Yeah.

55:26Claudia Oshry:Cause like if you reject him, he's such a narcissistic egomaniac. He will lash out and you will never be free of him. Cause he'll always wanting to be punished you as opposed to if he thinks it's his idea, then that's how Diana got out. He moves on from you.

55:39Jackie Oshry:Cause he's over you now to give Lucy that much credit. Like you guys have not been watching the show. I mean, there's no way in the world that she thought this through because you know, when Diana gave her that advice, she wasn't even listening. Like this is a girl who time after time, even as of this morning had sex with him. Now maybe you could say that was all a part of her plan. I don't think so. No, she's never had one good plan.

55:58Claudia Oshry:We saw it with the one she was trying to get the tape back.

56:01Jackie Oshry:Oh my God, going to the Yale thing. I was shaking my TV. Girl, get out.

56:05Claudia Oshry:Oh my God. And still it has not occurred to this girl that she can transfer. She's guilt stricken with guilt. She's sick. What she could do for herself is tell everyone the truth and say I'm transferring before they have a chance to ruin her life or get expelled yeah feel so terrible like I'm literally watching this girl come I'm like you could just all of your problems go away if you transfer you didn't kill anyone right nothing that you've done is a crime that will follow you outside of Baird just leave so when she was going to study abroad I'm like at least that's better she needs a break but like she can't she needs a break from Brie because she did really hurt her and you can't have a true friendship with someone I know she doesn't want to tell Brie because she doesn't want to upset her.

56:48Claudia Oshry:But like you can't have a true friendship with someone when you are harboring the secret. So even though it would be selfish to tell Brie because it's like you were unburdening yourself, you need a tabula rasa.

57:00Jackie Oshry:So yes, I found the finale a little frustrating just because it felt a little bit rushed. Like I do think it was a good ending, a perfect ending. And for people who want to give Lucy the benefit of the doubt, like there is a version, sure, think that. That's not what happened. That's not why she was laughing.

57:14Claudia Oshry:also I think maybe it was but like then there's a loose end of the fact that she like walked out on her friends Brie said like if you leave now there's no chance for us this is your last chance to not make a choice that's completely embarrassing and so even though maybe she got rid of Stephen like she has nothing too right she doesn't have Brie she doesn't have her friends because they

57:32Jackie Oshry:all think that she's a doormat again so there were like just a couple of random jumps it felt a little rushed like we never understood how and why Lucy was dating the bartender at the wedding

57:44Claudia Oshry:Yeah. Like that was such a random thing. Especially because like now she got expelled. She's not going to see him. Of course. She's not going back to that town.

57:51Jackie Oshry:Right. And then also like that whole professor intervention.

57:56Claudia Oshry:That was weird.

57:57Jackie Oshry:That was so weird. Maybe it was like fueling Bree being in a really bad mental state to make the decision to release the tape.

58:03Claudia Oshry:Which was a great plot twist. And being in a bad mental state to take Evan back. Like all the disruption in her life. And Evan, and it's like, Evan, you would think it's like, Brie and Wrigley are, you know, having an affair. And it's like, what about Evan? Like, all he's guilty of is like loving her. But then they turned him evil too by like having him try and get inside her head. And the thing is, his plan didn't work. She wasn't destabilized because her mom came drunk. She was destabilized because Wrigley had sex with Pippa. And that's why she went back to Evan. So like, he did all this for nothing.

58:34Jackie Oshry:Well, Wrigley and Pippa, Wrigley and Brie ending up together, like we won.

58:38Claudia Oshry:yes but I have a couple things to say about that like first of all the fact that their or origin story is just like this photography class and a kiss and it musty kiss I agree and then they're holding on to that for years years when they finally get back together it just doesn't feel like enough of like an anchor of like agreed forbidden love however if things had worked out for them and like they were able to let the dust settle and then start dating a few months later I think all the you know the shock from like Pippa and Evan like all of that would have clouded their potential to have a relationship they really couldn't have embarked on a relationship in a timely manner in college so they had to have this gap but then when they finally get back together again in evan's parents house at the engagement party like it's another like we never got like a pargy romantic moment for them first of all they have the same hair second of all why does wrigley look like a mess with that wig okay the wig why did they have him look a mess the wig and he should be wearing a wig in college and then be like handsome clean shaven wrigley in the future.

59:38Claudia Oshry:Agreed. I want, like he looks like a disaster and I remember from the first episode like he was having a hard time at the engagement party and they said it was because it was the anniversary of his brother. Death, but now we realize it's because the girl that he loves is getting married. Is getting married to someone else, but like he doesn't seem like he really got it together after college.

59:53Jackie Oshry:Does he have a job? No, I know. So it's like that's who Bri ended up with, but she was like looking for that stability, that, you know, stable force for, and that's why Evan was so great. Yeah. But they had to make Evan a villain.

1:00:03Claudia Oshry:so that we don't feel bad that she's cheating on him yeah i just also a criticism i have of the

1:00:07Jackie Oshry:finale was like they kind of made levity of everything you know like this was like a serious show like he low-key killed someone he was an abuser like and why was he invited to the wedding yeah why did like brie you can't tell ev even if he stayed friends like brie you have no control over who's invited to your wedding i know she said it was like evan's parents but like you're

1:00:25Claudia Oshry:inviting him and lucy to your wedding and like why did they need to go through all that for lucy to be free like was she not free when they broke up and she got kicked out of college and he was going

1:00:34Jackie Oshry:to law school yeah and he sort of had the last laugh like she was completely destroyed best part of the show when they were like who would send Yale admissions about and then they cut to Wrigley

1:00:46Claudia Oshry:walking down because I was like who did it also it made like just girls in general look so stupid because it's like Lucy Diana and Pippa are like racking their brains of how do we get back at Steven how do we make him suffer they literally go to Wrigley and in two seconds he fixes it he like has an appropriate reaction and plan for how to destabilize Steven. Like the girls don't look so good.

1:01:05Jackie Oshry:Yeah. Where is the Emmy for some of these actors? Like Lucy at the scene in the Dean's office, like that was a plus acting. Brie was like really, has a show ever been nominated for an Emmy or anything? No,

1:01:17Claudia Oshry:it should be. And I think Lucy is really an Emmy. And of course, Steven, cause apparently he's like a good, I'm sure he is. But Lucy just like, it's like, she's the ball of anxiety.

1:01:27Jackie Oshry:And then also they kept alluding to, like things getting really bad for Lucy's sophomore year. I was waiting for her to like have some sort of episode.

1:01:34Claudia Oshry:Well, it was an episode. Yeah, she got expelled. She got expelled. She's forgetting things. She's having like nightmares.

1:01:40Jackie Oshry:And like whatever happened with Lydia, like so many sort of like loose ends.

1:01:44Claudia Oshry:Well, they could have dragged it out. So we see Lucy go home and have a mental breakdown and go.

1:01:48Jackie Oshry:And why didn't they even show us her mom? Her mom was such a big part of the first season.

1:01:51Claudia Oshry:Yeah, go into, and probably didn't want to pay her for this season. Right. Go into a mental. They've stuck an extra in the front seat. Yeah. Like we probably, like she probably has to like get help. does she go to another college yeah it was nice to see that like diana and pippa clearly worked

1:02:04Jackie Oshry:it out yeah um and like they were in a new relationship so they weren't together these

1:02:09Claudia Oshry:six years because honestly if they were they probably would have broken up right so they

1:02:13Jackie Oshry:made their way back to one another you know but it was nice when they were like should we get out of here like they're still and that was like the theme with them like they really both pretty much stayed out of it like they realized how crazy these people are oh the scene where they both

1:02:26Claudia Oshry:No, they didn't. Like, Pippa really took it upon herself to make sure Stephen paid the price. She would not let it go. Everyone knew Stephen's a bad guy, but Pippa was the only one who was like, why are we letting him go with this? Yeah.

1:02:40Jackie Oshry:Also, the scene where she tells, Pippa tells Lucy that she's cheated on Wrigley for the last couple of weeks. And then, oh, I guess we're sharing. Lucy shares about Evan and Pippa's like, get the fuck out of here. He's disgusting. Like that was really sad. That was really sad. And like I feel Pippa, but like they are both guilty of the same crime.

1:03:01Claudia Oshry:And Lucy's is a little worse. Yes. Like lying to her best friend. But to act like you're so morally superior, you're not like that much greater. Yeah. Especially because like then you lied, like you made Wrigley feel like shit and lied to him. And then you correct. And then you only corrected it because you didn't want to be as disgusting as Lucy. Right. So you should thank Lucy for showing you how to be a better person. Right. That was sad. But we had to see Lucy like really hit rock bottom.

1:03:28Jackie Oshry:Yeah. I don't know. Like the last scene at the wedding, like Stephen's speech, like didn't give me that like feeling just because like it was so light. I really thought a chandelier was about to fall on it. Oh, no. I thought when they got into a car, it was going to be like the show started with that car crash with Macy. They get into the car. They were obviously drinking. It was three in the morning. And like they get into an accident and either like he leaves Lucy there or Lucy leaves him there. Like something sort of poetic. No, he just left her on the side of the road. the purse on the floor was hysterical

1:03:55Claudia Oshry:that would have been good to have like a car

1:03:57Jackie Oshry:symbol that's what I thought

1:03:59Claudia Oshry:um no I really thought he was about to die I'm like wait this is this is what we said yeah he needs to die yeah and this

1:04:09Jackie Oshry:I get it was just like funny and jokey when the whole time it was like not a funny jokey show yeah like when Wrigley and Brie like looked at each other with but

1:04:17Claudia Oshry:it's also like six years out like all that stuff when you're in it yeah it's like so heavy like feel so serious and even for Lucy like what was happening to her was so horrible yep but again if she just left the environment and went everywhere else like it's over and I think that's also the point is like at in the moment like everything these feel like the only three people on earth these three guys and these three girls and then like it's six years and it's a big world and it's like it's like a joke yeah oh I mean it's crazy that Evan and Brie actually got married yeah they're gonna have to get an old right um but for everyone else it's like oh there's a whole world out there right and like as much as all these people have grown up like steven is able to get under their skin in three seconds like yeah i don't know why lucy even engaged with why she was even struggling with steven at the party because it seems like after sophomore year she

1:05:05Jackie Oshry:never sees them like it's over so and how many years later six years right 2009 to 2015 okay so

1:05:11Claudia Oshry:why is the whole wedding engagement and the bachelorette remember those episodes too they were at like a bachelor the joint bachelor bachelorette party oh yeah like taunting her still yeah like why is she struggling so much so she has to extracrate herself again so now when brie and wrigley get married she's have to do it again yeah i just want to like i aim one day to be as

1:05:31Jackie Oshry:delusional as the people who think that like she extradited herself on purpose and got left on the side of the road and her plan worked like you have you not been watching the show she could have also

1:05:40Claudia Oshry:not gone to the wedding if you're really like healed and healed and i don't think her and brie are that close. It was like the kind of

1:05:46Jackie Oshry:that friend you have in your bridal party.

1:05:48Claudia Oshry:If you are inviting this person to your wedding, like I love you, but I can't come. I can't come. And like that person would and then Brie would go to Evan and say Stephen can't. Like it's very, that's how actual real friendships would work. Like you wouldn't invite someone's like abusive ex

1:06:02Jackie Oshry:to your wedding. I don't think Brie and Lucy like were even that close over the six years. I think it's like, you know, you make someone your, because like they were my college roommate. Like I don't think that they were even that close. So like it was. But they were close sophomore year. Yes, it was like a special friendship that like had potential to be sisterhood.

1:06:19Claudia Oshry:Yeah. But then, but it could never be because Lucy was hiding the secret. And then Brie was hiding a bigger one, I would say.

1:06:26Jackie Oshry:I would say as well. And the greatest line was like, you have the opportunity right now for the first time in your life to make a decision that isn't totally fucking embarrassing.

1:06:33Claudia Oshry:Yeah. Every decision this girl made was. The Yale.

1:06:36Jackie Oshry:I was clenching my butt cheeks.

1:06:38Claudia Oshry:I don't know why we're rooting for her. Like she's also the villain of the show. And I said that last season. No, because she makes so many bad choices.

1:06:46Jackie Oshry:Yeah, she's not the villain. But she's very hard to root for. But you have to keep reminding yourself that she's literally 18 and being abused by one of the most sociopathic people on the planet. So you have to keep reminding yourself of that. Some of the errors are unforced errors. Yeah, she got away, by the way.

1:07:05Claudia Oshry:No, but also... I don't know what Steven was going to do. She initially made the lie about Chris and said it was her. yeah being like a justice warrior nobody asked her to do that but then that also made her

1:07:16Jackie Oshry:relationship with people like really complicated so like part of you also wants to shake pippa being like lucy like she's insanely dumb but she did all of it in earnest like to protect you and like to fight on your behalf yeah so then like like she gets expelled and like it's like People didn't even show up to pack her bags.

1:07:35Claudia Oshry:Yeah.

1:07:35Jackie Oshry:It was an RA. I don't know. I don't know.

1:07:42Claudia Oshry:Crazy. Crazy. Very good show. Very good show. I wonder what was happening in the book. I know. I'm good. No, I just am curious. Like, sound off in the comments. What was the book about?

1:07:52Jackie Oshry:I guess, like, the big reveal was that, like, Bree was the one who released the tape.

1:07:56Claudia Oshry:Did that happen in the book? I guess. Is there a tape in the book?

1:07:58Jackie Oshry:I could see the book being like Lucy experienced this like life shattering thing in college where her ex-boyfriend released this like revenge tape. And then she goes to the wedding to see him for the first time. And it's all about that. And then she comes to find that like it was actually her best friend Brie.

1:08:10Claudia Oshry:Oh, interesting.

1:08:11Jackie Oshry:That could be a really good plot twist.

1:08:12Claudia Oshry:Because I feel like the book was about like.

1:08:14Jackie Oshry:Just college.

1:08:16Claudia Oshry:Macy. Right. You know, first season was more. Macy. Did Brie and Wrigley end up together at the end of the book? I don't know. Like, let us know. Sound up in the comments.

1:08:24Jackie Oshry:Right. Is the three seasons like the book or was like season one the book and then they like made it more.

1:08:28Claudia Oshry:stuff but even if they added it afterwards they really and i would love to watch the early episodes again now to see if yes i was thinking that too red between brie and wrigley is there but no jolly good job yeah for the wigs and the hair the wrigley wig is so weird the wiggly the wiggly

1:08:43Jackie Oshry:i like that um well that's tell me lies that's a season wrap on tell me lies that's a series series wrap on tell me lies and that's our show you guys thank you so much for listening to the tell us the way i want to show you the best stories you need to know many different and you do so watching us on youtube please feel free to subscribe and give this video a thumbs up we're also available as podcast network podcast can be found so it's spotify jim's twitter public video i already cast box all the places we've been listening to podcasts and i'm not so sorry about a beautiful setting and oh i get laid down did we all love you bye