How to Chart a Career Path in Modern Hollywood, With Rachel Sennott

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0:32This episode of The Town is brought to you by The Madison, the new original series on Paramount+. Academy Award nominee Taylor Sheridan's most intimate story yet, unlike anything he's ever done before. The Madison follows a family raised in a world of digital distraction, forced by tragedy to truly see one another and come together. Authentic, multi-layered, and did I mention starring Michelle Pfeiffer and Kurt Russell? Don't miss The Madison. New series streaming March 14th. only on Paramount+. It is Friday, March 6th. It's a live show. Our little film school tour rolls on, taking a break from the Paramount-Warner Brothers merger drama for a much more fun episode about how to chart a career path as an up-and-coming actor-slash-writer-slash-producer-slash-everything.

1:18Rachel Sennett is in many ways a combination of old school and new school talent. She first started acting at NYU Film School, but then she developed her own voice via everything online from podcasts to Twitter to open mic nights around New York City. Most people first took notice of her in Shiva Baby in 2020, a small indie that began as a short film directed by a classmate at NYU. She then did the indies Bodies, Bodies, Bodies and Bottoms, which led to a bunch of failed TV projects, both on traditional outlets like Comedy Central and web-only projects. And then last year, she launched I Love LA, the HBO comedy series that Craig and I are both fans of, and was renewed for a second season.

1:58She's currently leading the writer's room for that follow-up season, but she took a break to join me and Lucas Shaw, our Monday guy, at the film school at Chapman University in Orange County as part of our mini tour. It's a very fun chat about her ambitions both inside and outside the traditional industry. So no call sheet today. It's Rachel Sennett and how it is still possible to break into Hollywood. From The Ringer and Puck, I'm Matt Bellany and this is The Town.

2:26I want to start for this audience here with just getting a little bit of your path and the way that you got to where you are today. So tell us about some of the key moments early in your career, what you decided early on in school that you wanted to do and how you got there. Just give us like a little bit of your path. I would say my path started like where you guys are now in school. gorgeous school by the way I just was going to the bathroom six times and I went to NYU my acting program didn't really encourage like doing stuff with other majors like they they kept the acting students in one group they kept the film students in this other group and it was like nobody like interact with each other even the acting schools were broken down into like different programs.

3:15And it was kind of like, it was very divided. And I think what, when things started clicking for me was when I kind of went out of my program and started making my own connections and finding my friends. I would like leave acting class to go do the film students exercises. And they, I'm sure the film students know, you start, they're like, film an apple, like make it crazy or like someone looking out a window smoking a cigarette and like I am in so much footage of doing just like the like anything or saying like three lines out of context like how are you how are you so I did every film students things I started with a freshman when I was a freshman gradually I got like people saw that I was down to do like all the film student stuff.

4:10And I started doing people's thesis films, which is what they do in their senior. It's like a short film. And, um, that is how Emma Seligman, who is the writer director of Shiva Baby and director of Bottoms. And we wrote Bottoms together first found me because Emma had seen me in other thesis films and was doing their thesis film, Shiva Baby. Um, cause it was a short before it a feature. And so they reached out to me to audition. And that was like the beginning of that relationship. I also met Ayo, my friend Ayo Adebri. And I met Ayo when I did, when I auditioned for the comedy groups and neither of us got in, but then,

5:05and basically we we started doing stand-up together and doing sketches together and whatever and so basically like I think my my career path started when I met my future collaborators how did you decide to go to film school in the first place or to acting so it was acting first and then you're like oh maybe I should write my own material maybe I should you know be a creator or that kind of thing? Yeah, it kind of gradually pulled me in where I went to, I was in the Stella Adler acting school, which is very serious. And it's like, you wear all black. Like you, your dream is to like be one of the Shakespeare ladies.

5:48Like I can't even remember everyone would be like, you want to be one of the big five. And it's like, who are the big five? And it's like, all the women in Shakespeare, like they're like, Lady M, don't say her name. Like it was so serious. I was like, I'm not doing well in this environment. I can't compete in this environment. There was also like this thing as an actor that they really wanted to like smooth you down and sort of take away any of the things that make you individual kind of, or that's how I felt. And I felt I wasn't succeeding there. I couldn't get into any of the plays. I wasn't getting into any of the comedy groups.

6:28So that's kind of when I was like, I need to find my own lane. I also remember they had you crew for the seniors play to sort of learn. And I was crewing for their play. And in between rehearsals and stuff, I would be like, what do you think of what it like, what's your plan for graduation? What do you think you're going to do after school? And no one had a plan and it was freaking me out. That's the worst question though. I know, I know a freshman being like, so what's your plan? Did you, did you have a plan? Well, I knew I needed a plan already. I was already anxious. You can tell I'm anxious now.

7:14But like I just knew that I needed to, that the school wasn't going to set me up on my own for success. I needed to go find my own individual path. And that's, I think, what led me to writing and creating and wanting to. But it was gradual. Like even before the show got picked up, I think in my mind I was always like, if I'm going to create, it'll be like in a supporting role. and then I credit my friends a lot with this of helping me find the confidence to take on directing and show running, which is the most in control of a creative process I've ever been. And it's intimidating and it's a lot of pressure because it's kind of like, if people don't like it, there's no like, well, I'm just the third writer on that.

8:09You know what I mean? and it's like, they don't like you. They hate you. You know what I mean? It feels vulnerable, but I think it kind of led to it gradually in steps. And you weren't afraid to put yourself out there even at the time. You were doing jokes on Twitter. You were doing open mic nights. You were doing a lot of stuff back then. I'm more scared now. Yeah. And now I'm like, don't speak. Don't say anything. Be really quiet. Yeah, I think I just felt like I was kind of throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks and finding myself along the way. Because I think it's so much pressure to know who you are as an artist already.

8:54Like I think you guys, who you are and what you're meant to make is like already inside of you. But you just like part of it is your experiences and what you learn as you go. And there's an image. I think I think like For a lot of young people There's an image of what they want to make or like what's good The first thing you make isn't going to be as good as the image in your head um But like it's you have to keep making stuff to get there And so I think I needed to like do really bad stand-up Do really bad jokes on twitter Make weird short films do the beyonce remake of the music video whatever I had to do that to like get closer and closer to making the types of things I want to make.

9:43Do you feel that you've gotten there? Do you feel like you're making what you're supposed to make? I do, but I think I still have to get better at it. Like I, you still have to keep, like I, I feel like I learned so much in the first season of the show where I'm like, oh, okay, now I know what show running is. Now I can, now I have to do a better job. What is something that is difficult or fun about show running that you did not anticipate when you started the process? Oh. She wants to say ordering people around. Yeah, I love it. I would say I think I didn't realize how much of the job exists that's in between parts of the job, which is I think just like communicating with people and like understanding people.

10:33Like I, at some times I was like, I feel like I'm running like an insurance company. Like there's parts of it where all of a sudden you feel like really like serious and businessy. And then there's just all these other little things that aren't writing or acting or directing. You come up as a creative person. You come up as a writer, as a performer. and then all of a sudden you get a show and you're in charge of a P &L. Yeah. You have a$5 million an episode budget for a show. And you're looking at numbers and math. Right. And I'm like, I did all of this to get away from that. I can't do that. I don't know what it is.

11:12And I remember reading something that Lena Dunham had said when Girls Became Big was, you know, because they gave her a person, Jenny Connor, to work with her on the show to kind of handle that aspect of it. did you request that or did you want that? I mean, it seems like a daunting thing to take on a show without an experienced person over your shoulder. Well, I got really lucky because they basically like set me up with different people to meet with. So I like ended up with this awesome team of people, Emma Berry, my co-showrunner. It was also her first time show running. Um, but she had tons of experience in rooms.

11:52And I think there was something nice about it being both of our first times show running so that I didn't feel scared to be like, I don't know. It didn't feel like we were like, they were like, this person's bossing you around or telling you, you don't know what you're doing. Like we got to figure it out together and figure out our own rhythm. And then Aida Rogers, our producer who, she also worked on Barry with Emma and like she's worked for the HBO a lot. Like, she's looking at the P &L, the L &Ps or whatever. It's like, I don't know. Remind me, when you were taking the project out, was it competitive?

12:32Did you have a bunch of networks? Did you always think HBO? What was the... I didn't even, I didn't take a project out is the thing. They said, we want to work with you. No, this is what happened. I've taken projects out. There are scripts on the floor. Like, I spent all of COVID like developing a completely different show that never got made. And this was when you still lived in New York or had you moved to LA by then? This was when it was partially when I was in New York and partially when I was in LA. Oh, and partially when I was in my parents' basement in between that. But I pitched like two shows to like a bunch of people that didn't get made.

13:08And then I had a meeting with Amy Gravitt and Ali Wasserman at HBO. and it was, they had seen Bottoms and Shiva Baby and then read a couple other scripts that I had written. And then my agents were like, this is just a meeting. Just be, don't pitch them anything. Like they don't want to be pitched stuff. Like just be yourself. Obviously I pitched them everything that I had. And I was like, I walked in there and I was like, imagine this, it's a girl. She's just a fresh college girl, like spitting log lines at them. And they were just like, they just didn't, they just wanted to get to know me because they like to work with creators from the beginning.

13:54They like to like work with you from the jump. And so they kind of like relaxed me a little and they were like, babe, stop pitching log lines. Not that actually, but you know, they were just kind of like, what's going on in your life? Like what's, you know, where, what chapter are you in? Whatever. And so I just started talking about where I was in my life. And I was like, oh, I feel like I'm fucked because I'm about to go through my Saturn return. And I just started sharing like too much on this Zoom. And then I, whatever, we get off the Zoom and I was like, kind of fun meeting, whatever. Then I'm driving in my car and my agent is like calling me.

14:36And I pick up and she's like, babe, congrats. You sold the show. and you said what show I said what show I was like what is the show and she was like it's just everything you talked about it's it's all that it's all of those things and then I'm like in the car trying to remember by the way it's like do you know when you vent and then you black out like you're like what did I say about who like I was sort of like okay and so what I I didn't have a full show. I had the way HBO works like is basically like you get hired to develop an idea first. So you develop an idea and an original pilot script.

15:20Then if they like the pilot script, they can pick up the pilot. Then you shoot a pilot. Then if they like the pilot, they can pick up the show. So it's like, I don't want to say like, boom, I had a whole show, but boom, I had a script that I got to write. So then, then the writer's strike was called like right after this. First, I get an email in my inbox, untitled Rachel's at friendship show, which is where the joke can't, we kept joking about it because we were like, what? Like me seeing that in my email and I was like, okay, I guess I talked about friendship. Like, I don't know. And then, and then it was like my deal closed.

15:58And like a couple of days later, they called the writer's strike. At least the clothes before the strike. Literally. Thank God. Thank God. But I didn't get to talk to Amy and Allie about what the show, so I didn't get to meet with them for months and months and months. You must have been stewing in your head. Oh, I was, I was like journaling, trying to remember what I said. Friendship, friendship, friendship, friendship. I was so scared. And I was like, and I was like, I also can't, I couldn't communicate with them. So then anyways, right after the strike ended, I had like a meeting with them where they were like, we want to talk about your idea.

16:38And I was like, my big idea that I said before. And then I, as soon as I met with them, I immediately felt at ease because I think like, I realized that they wanted to be in the development process with me. Like they wanted to be creative with me. I didn't need to have a script or like I was going to go through, like collaborate with them and they were super involved. Um, and so from there we, we developed the show together, but like, I never like had this one idea that I took out. I had other idea, like, I don't want to make it seem I didn't ever pitch a show, but anything I ever pitched, pitched didn't get made.

17:23And was anything from that initial meeting, did it end up in the show? Was there influencers? Was it LA-based? Was it anything that you kind of used as a jumping point? Or was it all original? I think the things that I was talking about, I was talking about starting my career on the internet. That's kind of like the Tallulah character comes from... Like that's a little bit based off of my New York chapter. Everyone's like, who is this crazy? Whatever. I'm like, I related to like that when I was sort of a little bit more messy, a little more online. And then like the relationship stuff is like, you know, fictional.

18:08But. With a wink. comes from a place of truth thank you yeah exactly the word I was looking for and then I also I think the thing about Tallulah not coming to LA I think I had like when I was in my mid 20s realizing not all my friends were going to live in the same place as me enjoy it right now some of you guys are going to be in Chicago. Okay? You don't know. Some people are going to be in Chicago. Some people are going to be in LA. Some people are going to be in New York. There's even a fourth place that I can't think of right now. But some of you will be there. Some people will be in Atlanta.

18:53No, there are only four places. Related questions. Because a lot of the projects you've done prior to this, I feel like were done sort of independently outside of the system. Yeah. Did you welcome having sort of a big company part of the development process and did you during that process go to some of the kind of your collaborators over the years and get their feedback as well or were they too busy doing their own thing for bottoms we had already written the script but then we got to collaborate with alana mayo at orion and she gave notes so i've i've been like in the notes process before but not from the jump but like Like I, in a way it was kind of cool because I didn't know what to expect.

19:37And Amy and Allie and Casey too, like they were just really involved and quick with the process. Like it just moved. And everything I had heard was like, everything I had developed in the past had taken so long, but that was like without a network. I had like developed it with a producer or something or on my own. and then pitched it. And so it was really refreshing. And I feel really lucky to have had that experience. You can tell they wanted it to happen. You can tell when they don't want it to happen when they want it to happen. I just felt like we were in a good flow together. And also I like to move.

20:20And when someone turns notes around quickly for you, then you want to do a draft really quick. When it feels like something's happening, you want to make it happen, you know? And I think we all had that energy, which felt really good. Do you consider yourself super ambitious? Yes. That was quick. Well, I'm just like, I'm not going to be like, no. What are your ambitions? I, my ambitions are, I think to me, success in the industry, jumping off one of your other questions that you emailed to me in advance. Yeah, study for this. I think being able to get something made like get anything you want made is like true success is being able to be like I want to do a movie it's this, this and this and everyone's like okay go or I want to do a show and you can make it happen and I think I want after having the experience of the first season I want to keep making the show and then I think I want to it's made me feel like I want to direct movies and do like what Margot Robbie has done with Lucky Chap and create like my own production company and be able to move through the different roles of like actor, writer, director, whatever.

21:44And and like have different things going at once. One of the tenets of her success is that she's produced for other people as well. You want to do that? Yeah. I started doing that with my friend Katarina's feature, Bunny Lover, which is coming out. Shout out, Bunny Lover. It's coming out. Utopia is releasing it this spring. And that was my first getting to be an indie film, super indie. But that was like my first time getting to like produce a script with a friend who I was like, she's so talented and cool and getting to like be a part of making it. But like getting to do that on a bigger scale and be more involved, I think would be really cool.

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23:11You can add a pop of color with spring blooms and fresh plants and refresh your garden beds with earth grow mulch, five bags for just$10. Start your spring with low prices now through April 1st. Available at the Home Depot. Exclusions apply. See homedepot.com slash price match for details. I'm curious. You've spoken in the past about, and you referenced it sort of earlier about like being comfortable, almost more comfortable when you're failing because you learn from it and being scared when things are going well, which is, I think we said earlier, like things seem to be going pretty well right now.

23:48So what are you scared of? Don't worry. Okay. Thank you. That's a really good question. So unsettling. I think the good thing is that I actually found a job that's like always my brain is sort of like grabbing at a new thing to be worried about but the there's always going to be something to worry about like what if we're shooting and it rains like problem like that could happen and it could ruin the whole problem but yeah yeah or like what if they hate all the scripts we wrote you know what i mean like there's always like there will be a challenge in the structure of like making something. So I feel like in a way, my brain, which like searches for problems is almost like satiated by the job where I'm like, a problem will come.

24:43A problem will come on its own, which is kind of fun. Do you think about the show all the time? Of course, because I'm, because, well, I mean, Not when you're writing it. Oh, like alone? Yeah. Like when I'm in bed at night. Yeah. Or when you're not working on it and you're just like in your normal life, like does it consume you? I feel like. I ask because I've asked that of other creative showrunners and a lot of them say yes. Well, the thing is that you're never really not working on it in a way because you go right from the, at least for us, we wrapped the show. We were editing the show while we were shooting the show.

25:23We finished the edit. I started doing press while we were still in the edit. Then we kept, I'm doing press right now. And we're writing the next season. It kind of just keeps going. But I also feel like when you're working on something, you leave work and then you go to dinner with someone and then something happens, something crazy happens or someone does this behavior or whatever that you're sort of working on the story problems in the back of your head and you're like, ooh, that would be a fun thing for Charlie to do or that would be a fun, whatever. Like, I want to meet a guy like that in the show, whatever.

26:03So I think, yes. I'm curious because you talked about this idea of blissful unawareness and you were making jokes about the P &L earlier. Like, are you paying attention to what is happening in the broader entertainment business around you while you're doing the show? Like, you're making a show for HBO. HBO's in the process of getting sold. You talked a little bit about the strike earlier. I listened to you guys talk about it on the podcast. There could be a strike later this year. Like, are these things that you are thinking about or do you just try to... So I actually think about it when I listen to you guys talk about it.

26:33And sometimes I kind of actually get relaxed because you guys talk about it like, look, it's obviously it's going to... You know, that's my impression of you guys. Yeah, that was good. Yeah. Since I've joined the industry and since I joined the world as an adult, it's been in turmoil and like even more for you guys like i feel like it's like you they put the ipad in your hand and it was just bad like it was just like you were watching goop videos or like slime whatever and like just chaos and so it's like i i kind of expect that a little off. What do you think about the world of influencers? I mean, obviously it's a subject of the show, but do you try to make it feel realistic?

27:22Do you have an opinion about the rise of the influencer culture, especially someone who kind of dabbled a little bit, but is now very much a professional film and TV person? I feel like the internet is how I came up. And so I'm grateful to the internet for that. And I feel Like it's shown me or like introduced me to like creative people that I, or like comedians, writers, actually, whatever, like people that I wouldn't have otherwise been able to find. Like, I think it's kind of like a equalizer in that way. Right now I am like getting a little bit depressed, but that's not something that I'll get into.

28:07I went just, there's just so much stuff on there that you can read about. Oh, do you read about yourself? No, I'm talking about the Epstein files. I'm like, what are you... I am... I'm sorry. I'm reading... I don't care actually anymore that they are saying that my Bob is weird. I don't care. I'm literally like, this is refreshing. I am like deep in the Epstein files and it's really bad. So anyways, that's what I mean. Deep as it you're searching for people's names? I'm just reading stuff and getting really, really disturbed. So, I mean, that's the part of the internet. That's different than influencers, but it's like...

28:49Yeah. There are no Epstein influencers. This sounds like me and the Sony hack. It does. I just started going through all of the executives' emails. There's too much to read and it's really scary. So, I forget what the... Oh, influencers. I... Do you want your show to to have a commentary on the world of influencers do you want it to say something about them and if so what okay sorry let me agree i need to reground myself yeah i think so i think i want i am trying not to judge them like i think that the i'm trying to like have empathy for like people who grew up on the internet and like or have seen all of these things like i think like Like I feel sometimes like a little fried.