Savvy or Desperate? NBCU Poaches Taylor Sheridan From Paramount.

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1:45It is Monday, October 27th. It's big news in the Taylor Sheridan universe. I reported in my Puck newsletter last night that TV's most prolific creator, the guy behind Yellowstone and Landman and Tulsa King and a whole bunch of other shows that your parents love on Paramount Plus, he's leaving Paramount. You can read all the details there. But basically, Sheridan wasn't loving the new regime at Paramount since David Ellison bought the company this summer. The execs who had worked closely with Sheridan were fired. The new execs started questioning the budgets on his shows while Ellison has been dropping billions on UFC and South Park.

2:20Sheridan wasn't offered an extension on his current deal, despite the fact that his shows regularly top the Nielsen charts and drive huge viewership on the platform. So, sensing an opportunity, Donna Langley at NBCUniversal, which is home to Peacock and NBC and the Universal Film Studio, she swooped in and quietly signed Sheridan. His current film deal is up in March, so he'll move to Universal for movies then. But the big one, his TV deal, that's not up until the end of 2028, more than three years away. After that, Sheridan will be exclusive to Peacock and NBC for five years. It's a big, bold move by NBCUniversal and a risk.

2:58Remember, all the existing Sheridan shows and everything he creates until 28 will stay behind at Paramount. And Paramount can keep making Yellowstone spinoffs for as many generations of murdering cowboys as they can think of. It's the new stuff that will go to Peacock or whatever that platform looks like in three years. Will it even exist? Does the fact that Comcast, the owner, is willing to do a major forward-thinking talent deal like this indicate that it's a buyer rather than a seller in the current M &A wars, including possibly going after Warner Brothers Discovery? A deal as big as Taylor Sheridan has many ripple effects, so today, Lucas Shaw, our Monday guy from Bloomberg, he is here to discuss them all.

3:37It's the poaching of Taylor Sheridan and the implications across Hollywood. From The Ringer and Puck, I'm Matt Felony, and this is The Town.

3:49Okay, we are here with Lucas Shaw, our normal Monday guy. Lucas, how are we feeling about the Dodgers at this point? Well, I feel a hell of a lot better than I did after Friday night. After the awful Game 1 loss. I'm feeling okay. I do not trust Tyler Glasnow, the pitcher who's going Monday night whatsoever. Because he looks exactly like Cillian Murphy? For all sorts of detailed baseball reasons, we do not need to get into today. But you need a split on the road. They did it. Now they just got to come home and take care of it. And you will be there. I am going tonight. You will be there as well.

4:23I am stupid enough to probably be going to all three of the games. Oh, good for you. I'm going tonight, but I will be parking at my friend Michelle's house who lives right near the stadium because I refuse to pay$80 for World Series parking. Yeah, I got my parking hacks. I totally get it. All right, enough of that. On to my favorite topic, Taylor Sheridan, the Paramount saga, the Yellowstone Sheridan universe, big development. He's out. He's going to NBC Universal at the end of 2028. The movie deal will start in March. And I think this is a pretty big poach for Donna Langley and NBC Universal.

5:02Yes, they have to wait three years for this guy, but all sorts of ramifications for this. First of all, do you think this is a smart poach by NBCU? Yeah, I think you have to do it. You do the deal knowing that his best work may be behind him and that you're not going to get the return that you wanted. But he is the number one television showrunner creator in the business right now. Every time I do a poll of industry executives at the end of the year and I say, what showrunner would you want to be in business with? He finishes first. It's usually him and then Shonda Rhimes. And he's prolific. Even though he's a pain in the ass and his shows cost a lot.

5:39He's a pain in the ass. His shows cost too much. but you're also taking him from a competitor. Yeah. And who isn't a pain in the ass, really. And when he's written movies, which he will do some for them, he's tended to write some pretty interesting movies. So yeah, if you're a Hollywood studio, you're in the business of trying to collect the best talent and figure out how to work with them. And he's undeniably one of the most talented people working in the business today. And that's Donna's whole thing at Universal is that she's kind of built their slate around these big, splashy filmmakers. There's Spielberg, Nolan, Jordan Peele, and she's turned them into franchises.

6:15And if you look at their slate next year, they don't have superheroes, but they do have two very expensive, very big, high anticipation movies from Spielberg and Nolan that they are going to build their entire slate around. And she hopes that she can do that for Peacock. When they gave her that job, I think that was the goal of the Comcast people is that you've franchised talent at the film studio. So can you franchise talent at Peacock? It's just odd. It's a little odd because Taylor Sheridan was such a big part of building up Paramount Plus. And a lot of the subscribers are there, I believe, for the Taylor Sheridan content.

6:56Peacock, not doing so great. It's like going from a big house you built and trying to build another house. Honestly, I know he's expensive, but got to keep a guy like that, right? He's the brand. He's delivering audiences. He's got number one shows. Can't let him just walk out the door. I get it more from Donna's perspective than from Sheridan's perspective. Okay, so explain. What you're just saying, if Paramount +, Peacock, and HBO Max make up sort of the third tier of streaming services, right? Why do you want to go from one third tier service to another? Especially one where the core audience...

7:36I get that Yellowstone has been popular on Peacock. Yes. And just for those who don't know, Yellowstone is on Peacock based on a very bad deal that the previous Paramount regime did that gave digital rights to Peacock. I feel like otherwise, a lot of the stuff that Peacock is known for doesn't really overlap with the Sheridanverse. Well, sports. Sports, yes. But all the Bravo stuff. But maybe that's good. It's a new cohort. Yeah, it's a new cohort. But I feel like these streaming services that aren't Netflix sort of need to stand for something. Yeah. And you don't know. The interesting thing from Sheridan's perspective is you don't really know what Peacock is going to be in three years.

8:16I mean, there's all this M &A stuff that we can talk about later. But it's a risk. Like, there's going to be some deal that happens that either builds up Peacock or merges it into something else or makes it a tile on Prime Video or something has got to happen. to give it a global audience. It's only US at this point. You're kind of jumping into this situation that has a lot of question marks around. Maybe he likes being the big fish in the small pond, right? Because if he goes to a Netflix, which obviously would have backed up the bricks truck for him, he's just another guy. And yes, he would make some big shows, but there's so much more happening there that I don't think he would command as much power.

9:01I totally agree. And actually, some of my reporting indicates that, that he didn't even go down the road very far with Netflix because of that issue, is that he just knew that he would be one of 35 other creators. And at Paramount +, he's the man. People are there for him. He's the most powerful person. Everybody has to kiss his ass, which raises the question, how did Paramount let him go? I have to say this felt inevitable. You think so? So that was my question, because there's two scenarios here. One is that they really wanted to keep him. And we believe everything that David Ellison has said about how this is my, you know, we want Taylor Sheridan to be here as long as he's doing storytelling.

9:44And then there's another that says they actually came into this thinking he was expendable and thinking that in order for Paramount Plus to really be successful, they had to move beyond just being the Taylor Sheridan network. I don't know about Expendable, but the reason it felt inevitable is when I did a story earlier this year, or a couple stories on Chris McCarthy, who was previously the co-CEO of Paramount and sort of the Sheridan Whisperer, and on Taylor Sheridan, and I interviewed Taylor Sheridan, and he was basically like, I don't know what my future is at the company without Chris McCarthy.

10:18Now, some of that was obviously him trying to do a solid for this guy. That's how I perceived it. But it was, the relationship was real. No, no, no, but I had conversations with many other people who said there were issues. There were problems around a movie that Taylor Sheridan was producing that Warner Brothers had, that David Ellison got in the middle of the negotiations and mucked that up. Early conversations, both with David Ellison and with Cindy, made clear that they were going to try to bring down costs a little bit. He didn't like that. And once you start hearing all of that, the reason...

10:50Look, the South Park guys, they had problems with David Ellison. but David Ellison said here's a shit ton of money keep doing what you're doing and that's mostly what a creative person wants to hear as soon as there's like oh I might have to spend a little bit less money and I also just think like the taste of Cindy and Sheridan it was always a little bit of a weird match right she's known for more like I don't want to say highbrow because Sheridan is an elevated showrunner but it's a different kind of show it's she was co-running the show at Netflix when Netflix was trying to beat HBO and ultimately did beat HBO, right?

11:27And when Netflix then tried to get more and more populist, move into a lot of different genres, that's when there was some friction and that's when they went with Bella. Right. Bella Bajaria is now running TV. Well, now running everything, but yes. And so I was always curious how that relationship would work. So I'm not saying Paramount had to try to keep him. Like, you'd be crazy to just let him walk out the door, but And I'm sure there was a price at which they said, you know what? Go with God. And they have him for three more years. Most showrunners have what? Like three, four ideas in them at best?

12:03Like most creators can only do one show. But if you're really good, you have like three or four that end up in hits. He's at what now? Like nine? Going to be 10? I don't think it's quite that high, but it's close. No, but when Dutton Ranch and when Y. Marshalls premieres and when Nola King premieres, there's three more coming this year. Like, he's going to be up there with 10 shows or more by the time he leaves this company. The question is basically, do you think he's Dick Wolf? Yeah, I mean, he thinks he's Dick Wolf. No, I know, but if you are buying Taylor Shared in three years from now, because he's still young enough, like, he's prolific.

12:41Like, do you think that he can just keep churning out new ideas. Because the thing that Dick Wolf has going for him that Taylor Sheridan hasn't done is like his shows never end, right? Taylor Sheridan is constantly coming up with new stuff. But it's all in the same world. True. But unlike Dick Wolf, Taylor Sheridan is writing these shows. Yeah. That is the difference. He can churn out three scripts a week sometimes. Dick Wolf is essentially an empire manager, whereas Taylor Sheridan is in the dirt doing all this stuff. He does manage as well. And I think he'll probably leave some of the other writing to other people as he gets more and more shows.

13:18But this guy is in the weeds on this. Right. The other danger for NBCUniversal, I guess, is this would be like a Ryan Murphy situation where, I'm not saying the shows he makes for NBCUniversal will flop like the shows Ryan Murphy made for Netflix, but when Ryan Murphy left Fox for Netflix, he still had a bunch of projects that he was doing for Fox. Right. And so will Taylor Sheridan still have a bunch of stuff he's doing for Paramount? Or is he going to script this in a way where he basically like washes his hands as soon as he leaves? I think it may be that. I think he will move on to the next thing.

13:54I mean, from everything I've heard, he's got, he's very scheduled until the end of this three-year period. Now Paramount could start canceling stuff and kind of spite store it and say, listen, we're not doing this anymore if you're bailing on us. But these are the shows that work. No, they should lean in the opposite direction. Yeah, exactly. They should try to get as much out of him as possible. And keep him on. It's like, oh, keep him as busy as possible. Oh, you want to come up with something for NBCUniversal? No, no, no, no, no. There is a very high-profile movie project that they want him to work on and they want to sign him for that I cannot mention what it is, but that will be the tell if he's willing to do that for them.

14:30And I think that there may just have been an analysis where they said, okay, we've had this guy for 10 years. We've gotten the prime of his career. out of this? And do we want to be the Angels signing Albert Pujols to a 10-year deal when he's 31 years old? Craig, what's the basketball equivalent of that? Well, if I'm being kind, it's LeBron to the Lakers. And if I'm being cruel, it's the Sixers giving 35-year-old Paul George$200 million. So we'll see which way Taylor Sheridan goes. They did that? They gave a 35-year-old$200 million? The Sixers? Yeah, last year. I guess he was 34, but yeah. Wow.

15:08Okay. But for how long? Four years. Oh, okay. So I don't know. Is Taylor Sheridan Paul George or LeBron James? Probably closer to LeBron James. Yeah. And listen, we're not saying that Taylor Sheridan is aging. He is in his late 50s, but he's got probably 20 different ideas in the drawer that he can now hoard for three years and just unleash at NBCUniversal when he's there. Can I ask a question? Is this a sign to you guys that NBCU is going to make a bigger splash, like after Warner Brothers or something else? Because to me, if Peacock is just going to remain Peacock, how valuable is Taylor Sheridan?

15:46It's not like he moved heaven and earth for Paramount Plus and made it a dominant streamer. No, but he made it, he helped it a lot. Oh, yeah. But if it's just Peacock plus Taylor Sheridan, then they've just become Paramount Plus. Is that really that valuable? They added the NBA. That's a huge bet on driving millions of people to Peacock. Yeah, no, it's a bet. See, that's what the bigger issue here is. because Comcast is in the middle of this weird M &A war situation right now where they are having to decide whether they are all in on media. I mean, there's a scenario where Comcast just cuts bait and says, we are not big enough here.

16:21Our service is only in the US. We are going to sell these assets or put them in another company or something like that. And I think if you're making what is likely a billion-dollar-plus commitment to a guy like Taylor Sheridan that doesn't start for three years. You believe or you hope that you will be in this business in three years and you are a buyer, not a seller. You agree with that? I never thought they were sellers. Brian Roberts is not a seller. Okay. Well, neither was David Zasloff until the reality of the situation. But David Zasloff's family doesn't control the company. True. Brian Roberts is largely in control.

17:00He's built that company through buying things. He's been very clear in public comments and interviews he's given that he is committed to media, he's interested in media, and is more of a buyer than a seller. But there is a real question is, okay, if you're not a seller, what are you going to do to sort of level up your media assets? And it's why they've been tossed out so often as one potential suitor for Warner Brothers Discovery. Yeah. And it may be why they just donated to Trump's ballroom. It may be. Because they want to potentially suck up to him to get an acquisition of the Warner Brothers Discovery streaming and studios assets for Comcast.

17:40But this sort of underscores, do you need to do M &A or can you just get the talent and the properties? Right? Like the whole Netflix strategy was, we're not going to buy stuff. We're just going to like build up this. They were first mover on this. They are spending like nobody else can. Comcast is spending big money on certain assets to build up streaming. They've made a huge NBA deal. They've now done this big Taylor Sheridan thing. They're clearly trying to take select bets that they feel like can reposition them a little bit. But do they have any shot to be higher than fourth or fifth on the streaming chart if they stay how they are right now?

18:18Well, what if they buy HBO? That's what I'm saying. They would have to do something like that. If they buy HBO Max and merge it all, and that's their international presence, and Peacock becomes HBO Max, like, that's a player. it would still be fourth place. Okay. And that's if we're not including YouTube. Yeah. Maybe that matters. Maybe that matters the overall thing. Did you see Rich Greenfield suggested that they hire the Turning Points USA person as their... They hire Charlie Kirk's wife to oversee a combined MSNBC, NBC, and CNN, and that if Trump knows that that's going to happen, all of his animosity towards the Roberts family and towards Comcast will melt away and they will be able to do whatever deal they want and it will be the key to unlocking this company.

19:03I don't know if I agree with that. It shows a real, I don't know if it's antipathy or misunderstanding for journalism. And for the talent business. Are you kidding me if they did that? Like Barry Weiss is one thing at CBS News. Like at least she came from the journalism world. Like that would just, I mean, everybody would freak out. Can you imagine what Rachel Maddow would do if that happened? She'd leave. she'd leave they would all leave yes and then you got nothing

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20:04Right now, get up to 15 % off select storage solutions. Put heavy-duty HDX totes to good use, protecting what's important to you. The solid, impact-resistant design prevents cracking, and the clear base and sides make items easy to find even when the totes are stacked. Find select shelving and tote storage up to 15 % off at the Home Depot to organize every room in your home, from your garage to your attic. Visit homedepot.com, how doers get more done. So the downside here, you mentioned Ryan Murphy. Do these overall deals tend to work out? Because I have heard the theory that people looking back on the heyday of the Netflix overall deals and the talent wars of the late 2010s.

20:50And I've heard the argument that these never work out, that you overpay, you don't get stuff from people, even though the heyday of Greg Berlanti at Warner's, you know, the J.J. Abrams at Warner's didn't work out. Kenya Barris at Netflix. Shonda Rhymes arguably did work out. She's still there. She hasn't produced a ton, but she's definitely brought them big hits. Even Seth MacFarlane at NBCUniversal didn't really work out. No, I mean, they did get Ted, but like, yeah, you just, why not just hire him to do Ted? They already own the property. Yeah. There are a lot of those big deals didn't, didn't produce what they wanted, but it was a moment in time.

21:26It was a moment in time, but it, but is that moment back? I mean, we got a big spending new buyer in the market and others may have to react and maybe where it's all, you know, the, the wars are coming back. Yeah. I think it's just normal. They're always going to be bidding wars. for the biggest. Taylor Sheridan is the biggest show runner on television. The Duffer Brothers created the biggest show of the last 10 years. Like, yeah, I agree with you. The other element here is 101 Studios, which produces the Taylor Sheridan shows. They're also going over to NBC Universal and they make other shows besides the Taylor stuff.

22:04They make the agency, they make Mobland. I mean, if we think Taylor Sheridan was programming Paramount +, 101 Studios was really programming Paramount Plus because those other shows you mentioned are also Paramount Plus shows. Yeah, exactly. And does this mean that Paramount Plus is going to lose these other types of shows? Because they're getting big stars. They're getting Tom Hardy. They're getting Helen Mirren. They're getting all these big stars to be in these shows. Or are all these showrunners also going to start going over to NBCUniversal with 101? because that's kind of a hidden element of this.

22:40I think Cindy Holland and David Ellison want to, well, first of all, they're obviously going after HBO and hoping that they can get that deal done and render this all moot. But they want to rebuild Paramount Plus with their stamp and vision. And one of the tricky parts with Taylor Sheridan and with 101 Studios is it moved a lot of power over what's happening with that streaming service to an outside entity. and I think that Chris McCarthy and Paramount were fine with that because of the hits that they were getting from it but I don't think that that's what David Ellison and Cindy Holland's MO is you see it also with South Park like the big talent where Chris McCarthy made a bet that like I'm just going to give a lot of authority and influence and money to like a handful of talent that will move the needle for us and that was like the strategy and then everything else will be ridiculousness right I don't think that that's how David Ellison wants to do things I think he and Cindy Allen want to be the ones who have control and are making the big decisions and will go for big talent, but for big talent who wants to fit into what they want to do.

23:43Yeah. And then that puts a lot of power in the hands of these executives. And, you know, at least for Sheridan, he was not vibing with these executives. And, you know, Cindy has a great relationship, a lot of respect around town. I think the film side of the equation has a little bit of proving to do. Skydance has made a lot of movies, but if you ask to name the great Skydance movies, what are you naming? Top Gun? You're naming the Tom Cruise movies. Yeah, exactly. So they have a lot to prove there. And I'm sure you're picking up what I'm picking up around town is that these are going to be the most powerful film executives like Dana Goldberg and Josh Greenstein.

24:24That's kind of crazy. If they get Warner Brothers, those are going to be the people that are dictating like 30 % of the movies that get released? Well, I think there's a lack of clarity if they were to get Warner Brothers and they, you know, they keep the labels separate. Like, who is ultimately sitting on top of all that? Do you just have Warner Brothers and Paramount report into David as separate labels? Maybe. Maybe. Seems to be that. I mean, he cares a lot about movies. I would guess that would be what happens. Or maybe the Skydance people, like all the layouts that are happening this week at Paramount, like it's basically a skydance takeover the skydance people are coming in all the paramount people are going out and it's a skydance takeover ellison seems to like the inner circle around him yeah that's always what happens sure but my point is he's got these people running skydance film that are you know if you if you made a list of the top 10 most desirable film executives i'm not sure they'd be on it no i think you're right but it gets to the spending issue big wall street journal piece this week talking about how much Ellison is spending, spending, spending.