SubwayTakes, Tiktok Vs. YouTube, and New Late-Night TV With Kareem Rahma

0:00Matt Belloni:This episode is brought to you by FX's Love Story, John F. Kennedy Jr. and Carolyn Bissett. The critically acclaimed series explores the undeniable chemistry, whirlwind courtship, and high-profile marriage of one of the most iconic couples of the 20th century. With Sarah Pidgeon and Paul Anthony Kelly leading a cast including Naomi Watts, Constance Zimmer, Alessandro Nivola, and Grace Gummer. Called A Stunning Portrait of Love by Variety, Love Story is Emmy eligible in all limited series categories. Now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers.

0:40Matt Belloni:This episode of The Town is brought to you by Starz's Outlander. Everything has led to this. The final chapter of the time-traveling drama and cultural phenomenon starring Sam Heughan and Catriona Balfe is only on Starz. Vogue declares Outlander one of television's greatest love stories, and the rap raves Balfe and Heughan have perfected this on-screen relationship. Industry voters can access all episodes at starsfyc.com. It is Wednesday, May 6th. The creator economy is filled with young people who are raised in front of a camera. Digital natives who pretty organically live their lives and build their businesses online.

1:18Matt Belloni:But that's not the only path. Our guest today built a career in media out of the spotlight first. He was an editor and executive at Vice back in the day, then became the growth editor at the New York Times, co-founded a podcast company and did some entrepreneurial stuff. And then one day, about five years ago, he decided to make the jump to front of the camera media personality. Kareem Rama has had a ton of success since doing so. He created the digital show Subway Takes, which is exactly what it sounds like. Kareem on the subway, talking casually to people who have takes, some of them famous, many of them not famous.

1:50Matt Belloni:He launched the show in 2023, and he's grown its following to 2 million on Instagram, 1.3 million on TikTok, and nearly 1 million on YouTube. And it's a real business. Got guests like Cate Blanchett and Austin Butler and Spike Lee, all filmed on real working subways, often with interruptions from fellow writers. He's got another show, Keep the Meter Running, on TikTok, which he's about to launch into longer form on YouTube. So it's a good time to have Kareem on the show to talk about making that jump from editor to creator, building a real business on social media and YouTube, the whole digital video landscape these days, and of course, his own subway takes.

2:28Matt Belloni:Today, it's becoming huge online after you turn 35. From The Ringer and Puck, I'm Matt Bellany, and this is The Town.

2:40Matt Belloni:Okay, we are here with Kareem Rama, who is the host and producer of Subway Takes and Keep the Meter Running, which is now coming to YouTube. You're going from TikTok to YouTube on that one, correct? I'm going from TikTok to YouTube, baby. And longer episodes. Yes, yes. We're going from an average of six minutes to an average of 25 minutes with that show. Oh, wow. That's a lot. It's super exciting. I've been wanting to do it for a long time so that, you know, the original version of the show started before Subway Takes and it took off even more quickly than Subway Takes. But you can imagine what telling a cab driver to keep the meter running does to your budget.

3:23So at the time I put that show on pause, put it on hiatus and put my focus into Subway Takes.

3:29Matt Belloni:but also explaining to a cab driver like what's going on and like what the show is and can you sign this release and everything yeah i mean that's what you gotta do but it's it's the spontaneity of hailing a cab and and you know sometimes i have to hail like 15 cabs before someone either says yes or yeah what's the percentage of get the fuck out of here i'd say on a good day, it's probably 50%. Actually, in New York, I would have thought more. I'm glad you came on the show. I'm a fan, and I wanted to have you on because I sort of relate to you because you were a behind-the-scenes guy. You were at Vice.

4:10Matt Belloni:You were at New York Times. You did some entrepreneurial stuff where you were trying to build a company, and then all of a sudden, you're public, and you decided to make that leap to being the guy. And for me, like I was always a behind the scenes guy as well. I was a lawyer. I was a journalist. I was a magazine editor. And at some point it sort of clicked in my head that objectively I was probably the best person to be front facing as much as I didn't want to be front facing at puck. And then on this show, I kind of said, all right, you know what, if we're going to do this, I probably have the right background and I could try to make this work.

4:54Matt Belloni:Did a similar thought process go through your head when you decided to go from the guy behind the scenes to the guy in front of the camera? I mean, I think it's one of those things and you have it, which is that you have the passion. You have the passion and a little bit of kind of delusion to think that like, I'm the best man for the job. And for me, it's a very similar situation where I'd seen people doing things. I'd helped people do things. And ultimately, every time I did that, I was like, man, I just, I think I can do it in my own way, in my own style, give something people knew and selfishly make a career in hanging out, which is a very cool job.

5:38Matt Belloni:But also very difficult because there's a lot of people trying to do that. What did you say to yourself? I need to do this to break out. Because I'm sure there's a lot of people that listen to this show that are making similar decisions or representing people who are trying to break out. And your show, it's sort of unique in its simplicity. It's just a guy on the subway asking for takes and having that conversation. So what was your thought process and how you break out and grow? I think for me, the perspective of having the career pivot at age 33 and having done all of these things before I became an entertainer allowed me to kind of think about the whole chessboard and differentiating myself from others doing it.

6:29And the others doing it are oftentimes a decade younger than me, right? But having that perspective, I knew, and even working at Vice and the New York Times, I knew that at the end of the day, the one thing that really sets you apart is quality and storytelling. So from the offset, I could have been cheap and used iPhones to shoot my shows or used one camera instead of two or sometimes three to shoot my shows and cut costs. But I knew that using cinema quality cameras would make a difference when you're watching things on a phone. It just looks cinematic. And having the kind of the dual cross coverage when every other show appears to be flat because they just use the same camera and cut back and forth.

7:19Having the dual cross coverage like a real television show would differentiate me. So I really came into it from a quality perspective first and a storytelling perspective first. I know that's a cliche word and everyone uses it all of the time, but it was never for me. It was like, let me engineer, let me create a GMO, like a viral object. It was always like the virality will be the outcome if the show is good and if the show is sticky. And if I, you know, I'm having a good time, like people want to watch other people have a good time. And every time I get into a cab or jump on the subway to talk to these people, I'm having a good time.

8:02And I really think that that's kind of the alchemy behind it. Of course, the formats are both super simple and easy to understand with keep the meter running. I jump into a cab and say, take me to your favorite place and keep the meter running. Super easy to get on subway takes. I look at the person and say, so what's your take? And they can say literally anything they want in the world. So those entry points are simple and easy. And you go, hmm, it's a thumb stopper. but then once you start watching it's a pleasant experience the sound is good the color is good the audio is great like yeah and it matters a lot i think yeah i think because you see that as a

8:36Matt Belloni:through line in a lot of the successful creators that the shows have production value how do you pull that off on a subway do you have guys that are keeping the crowds at bay and making it look natural when there's like four different lighting apparatuses on on the car let me tell you it is so hard to shoot subway takes. It does look easy, but we don't know. There's no... We have a live audience every time. Sometimes they're going to work. Sometimes they're going to pick up their kids from school. Sometimes they're going to the grocery store. Sometimes they're having a psychotic break. And sometimes they're having a psychotic break.

9:15I have a couple of those stories. Most of the time, they're happy to have some free entertainment on the subway as they make their way. but it's hard we don't shut down a car we don't have like people blocking traffic like if you want to walk through the shot walk through the shot if you want to chime in chime in and people do chime in often and it makes the show better uh but logistically it's difficult to pull it off i mean it's it's a small crew but it's it's also a big crew when you're getting on a crowded subway car so we try to keep the footprint small uh you know there you don't shoot it like two in the morning or something to reduce the crowds no i mean we definitely don't shoot at rush hour rush hour but usually i'm shooting between like 11 a.m and 3 p.m there's no permitting or you don't go

9:59Matt Belloni:through the city film office or anything like that no and i would hope that we are allowed to shoot for as long as possible because i do believe that subway takes is the best commercial for the mta that's ever existed yeah i'm sure you're gonna get a nice phone call from uh film new york when this airs i mean hey you know professionally produced content we charge a permit fee but here's what i'll say when a lot of rumors are out there that the subway is unsafe and you got a video of charlize theron sitting there next to me i think it's a pretty good it's a pretty good cosign to take the mta well and you didn't show the four handlers that went and scrubbed down the seat before she sat down and are keeping away the riffraff it's so surprising how chill everyone is like i'm always like oh god they're this person's like cate blanchett i'm like she's literally gonna hate this like why is she doing this and then they're always like i just had the most fun i've ever had like you know what it's street cred that it's a safe way for them to say i am of the people and look at me you should go see my movie because i'm just like you i take the subway right but but even then you can still be a deviant and request like security or whatever and sometimes people do bring their own but it is always surprising that that they're having fun you know what i mean and i really think that people want to do the show which again is another kind of like reason that the show's good is i'm not forcing anyone i'm not i'm not really like reaching out saying like please come on the show it's not billy on the street no it's not billy on the street although i love billy on the street i love that show too but that's a different thing yeah yeah it's a different thing and and i think because i'm not begging people to come on like like anyone who wants to come on is like i would love to come on and i'm like great i would love to have you on do you prefer celebrities or real people i wouldn't say that there's a preference i think that the dna of the show and and a lot of what is missing in entertainment in general is not you know celebrity based content because there's so much celebrity based content so it's actually really refreshing to see uh independent voices on the train giving their takes whether it's a writer an actor a musician a painter like that's what i really tried to i try to provide a platform to people who would love to be on kimmel next year or the year after or the year after you know what i mean i'm trying to make a place where when i was first starting out i would have like it would have been a big break for me so that's really the that's my booking process is like you know someone who maybe doesn't have reps, but I think is a hilarious comedian.

12:34And I meet them at a comedy show and I'm like, man, you know, you should be on the show. And that's how I book a lot of people is exactly what Craig was saying. Like it happens in the street. Like I'm doing a lot of street casting and it's amazing.

12:49Matt Belloni:And the goal is you hit on people before. Like if you would have had Timothee Chalamet as some 17 year old Knicks kid coming back from the game and you get him and then four years later, he's a huge star. Yeah, I like that. I mean, I don't take any credit for anyone's success, but there have been many people that have come on the show that I was like, oh, I was early. Yeah. All right. So we are business podcast. I want to talk about the business of subway takes 2 million subs on Instagram, 1.3 million subs on TikTok, almost a million subs on YouTube. How do you make money? I make money mostly through brand partnerships.

13:27So brands come on and they sponsor an episode of Subway Takes or they sponsor a couple episodes of Subway Takes. And that is mostly how the show generates revenue.

13:36Matt Belloni:So like 60%, 70 % of your income is from that? I'd say probably 90. Oh, wow. So the rev share from the platforms is 10 % of your business. Yes. And we have, I mean, we don't even have it activated on Instagram because you're not, you can't monetize videos that are collab posted. And we from day one have collab posted every single video and it would feel weird to all of a sudden say, well, we want to monetize. So we're not collab posting anymore. Um, so you can only monetize non collab posted videos, uh, on Tik TOK, you know, it's just not a lot of money on YouTube. We're doing pretty well, especially because we started doing subway takes uncut, which is the longer version of the show.

14:15Those episodes are like 20 to 25 minutes. So there's more ad role in there. But I definitely say YouTube, you know, is provides us the most amount of programmatic revenue, but the lion's share of revenue for subway takes is from brand partnerships. And then to make keep the meter running, I partnered with a company called and media, who's like, I guess, a venture studio for content. And they essentially helped me bring the new version of keep the meter running to life. So that's how that show was

14:45Matt Belloni:supported and again that's why you went from tiktok to youtube because you could monetize better it's not the only reason it's like it's like the storytelling like i'm i'm actually not out to like monetize the shows you know what i mean i feel i feel like both the you don't like money i love money i think money is awesome it's my but you're not out to monetize no i'm out to have a career right i'm out to have i'm out to have i'm in the business of kareem rama honestly like like a lot of people have asked me like you should start a studio You should start a media company. You should, you know, you should, you could produce 10 other shows.

15:17And I'm like, but I'm in the business of Kareem Rama. Like I want to be the asset. I want, you know, I want to be the talent going back to what we were talking about earlier is like at age 33, I, I had this kind of moment where I was like, you know, we live in a very talent driven world and like a celebrity driven world. And when I was pitching both keep the meter running and subway takes in the beginning, like a lot of people were like, well, who's the talent? And I'm like, well, I'm the talent. Like I'm early, but I'm the talent. that's how we make new talent and then they said no no no no for real yeah for real who's the talent you know did it has anyone ever said like oh you and craig can't host the show it needs to

15:52Matt Belloni:be talent and they're like i'm the talent no one has said that but we're not i mean this is this is totally different this is like a very specific niche show that i happen to have a background that makes me you know the host and not the talent for you that's what's interesting is that you broke through doing a thing that you could find elsewhere on the internet you could find interview shows a lot and what's your take and give me you know the sports radio is built on that but you broke through and that's what's interesting to me and i do think it's talent i think you have a demeanor in a way with people that's appealing and the production value is high and it's a good gimmick people on the subway everybody relates to that yeah and and the same with the cabs like it's You've all gotten into a cab and the taxi driver is kind of crazy or has an amazing food spot to show you.

16:48And it's a very relatable environment. But I also think that I feel like a lot of entertainment at the moment feels like you're being lied to or it's fake or it's too perfect.

17:01Matt Belloni:You must ask the handlers for these stars, okay, so what else are they doing? Are they doing SmartList? Are they doing Chicken Shop Date? Are they doing all these other shows that ostensibly now you compete with for these guests? I think the difference is my show is 5 % celebrity driven. Like, it's not the main attraction. Yeah, that is different. So, and then because we don't— And you don't need it. That's the difference. Maybe. I think that, like, you know, I published seven episodes a week. Actually, no, now five. It was seven, now it's five. It was two, then seven, then five. And, you know, one in 15 is a famous person.

17:44And, you know, just logistically speaking, there's no way I could do seven celebrity episodes in a week. It's just impossible with my schedule, with their schedules, with the fact that it's not comfortable. You know, there is no studio. There's like every time I'm going to shoot, it's like I assemble a team and then we figure out a subway line. And then we, you know, we want to go shoot on the F, but the F is down. so last minute we're texting their team saying hey we're pivoting to the one and it's just like it's not a great experience for me it's really stressful the days before these shoots i'm like a little bit like oh god i have to do it again not in a bit but then i i'm when i'm doing it i'm so happy and it's so fun but the production is hard and you know i've never booked anyone based on the press tour sometimes people come on just because they want to do the show a lot of times

18:35Matt Belloni:people aren't promoting anything yeah spike lee was a good one yeah he was just there yeah hassan minaj yeah they were just they were both just there and i think that's also cool um hassan minaj had takes prep he had a lot i mean the celebrities have takes prepped they do and but but we you know we don't want someone to come and just give because some people have been turned down for not having a great take oh wow so you pre-take them on on the celebrity ones were like you because we they have to be prepped otherwise they what was the worst take that didn't air oh my goodness do i have to do this no you don't have to say who's can you you don't have to say who said it but can you just give us the take yes he does i want to know which celebrity had the worst take and if you won't say that i want to know just what the take was it was it was bacon as a spice oh i know who said that and it was someone who was running for president and i and i and i was like i don't think i don't want to be said that yeah and i was like i don't want to be blamed for losing it.

19:33Matt Belloni:So she crumples up bacon and uses it as a spice on food? Yeah. And then I said, oh. What's wrong with that? That sounds delicious. I said, but then I said, what kind of spice is it? And then she goes, well, it's not a spice. It's more of a flavor. And I said, well, you were the one that just said it's a spice. So how can we talk about the bacon? And then I also don't eat bacon, which I made. I was like, I don't eat bacon. So let's like do something else because it'll be more fun that way. it was just a bit of a and she was adamant about the bacon take i don't know if i don't think it was her it was definitely people they focus grouped that they did they did she'd never heard of bacon bits yeah i don't know and here's what i'll say she had a great take that i originally was like let's do that one and it was that she doesn't like when people take their shoes off on the plane and i'm an avid shoe taker offer even if it's a two-hour flight Oh, you are.

20:27Oh, I think that's gross.

20:29Matt Belloni:With socks? Eh, it's still gross. You don't take your shoes off on it. What are we as a culture? People go on planes now as if they're going to their own personal bed. Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm wearing a suit. I agree. We should go the other way. People should start wearing suits again. I know. I'm telling you, I'm wearing the suit, but the socks are out. The white socks and a suit. And it's like, I think we want to mix the high and the low. But you got to let those puppies breathe on a flight. on a 12-hour flight, you've got to let those puppies breathe. Coming to Acorn TV. There's a killer on the loose.

21:02Brooke Shields stars in the new original murder mystery, You're Killing Me. You spin some crackpot theory and I find the evidence. I solve mysteries for a living. I think I'm good to go. Murder has met its match.

21:14Matt Belloni:You cannot be here. This is a police investigation. I've written you. What does that mean? He was a big city cop with a small jurisdiction. Boomers are so cute and they flirt. You're Killing Me, new series May 18th, only on Acorn TV.

21:54Matt Belloni:year and usa today hails it an exquisite masterpiece beef for your emmy awards consideration you must get stopped all the time around new york and asked for a take do you have a take prepped to give the fans when they ask it depends on where i am in in new york city right now i say that the rats are being treated badly and we need to figure out a new way to deal with them because just killing them i think is not cool because that's the solution and everyone talks about it like it's normal there's like yeah we're just gonna kill the rat what do you want you want to send him to a colony or something yes there are many unused islands on this island and we could just put them on island rat island i think it would be really nice but the better question is like who's your dream guest and i have a really good answer for that and i really genuinely believe it ben affleck i want ben affleck oh he'd be great he's my white whale guest whenever he does press we wanted him on this show you know he's really smart about the entertainment business when you get him going he just made you know 100 million dollars or more on an ai company out of nowhere like he's great ben affleck open invite come on the town he's okay and subway takes two he's our he's our white whale but i i just think he's one of the most you go to boston and do it on the subway there 100 i'm there and i'm there tomorrow i'll figure it out i'll figure it out with the city we'll figure it out how to take that train i don't know what it's called what's the boston train called i don't know but you should do like the old school talk shows where you do a week in la on the subway here there's nobody on it you would have free reign we're we're uh we're in process because we've done london we've done london we've done berlin we've done chicago we've done paris and recently we started cooking up plans to come to la you should come on when we're in la anytime all right so what what is your team what is what is team kareem look like so on keep the meter running i have a producer named adam phase on subway takes i have a producer and co-founder named andrew quo uh a lot of the people that shoot the shows are shared but usually there are at least two shooters sometimes three depending sometimes four depending on the situation bts photographer two associate producers uh and then my management team who's helping with the scheduling the coordination so on any given on on subway takes on any given shoot it's probably And then like there's an editor, there's a sound mixer.

24:17I mean, it's a whole product. It's they're both major productions. And my thesis and hypothesis is that, and actually it's not even my thesis. Maybe it is my thesis. My passion is entertainment. My passion. I look up to Hollywood. I've always wanted to be in Hollywood. Now I have a version of Hollywood that exists where I'm making TV shows. They're being distributed on different screens. I would, you know, with, with whether that screen is a YouTube screen on at home on your TV or an Instagram screen on your toilet, uh, on, on your phone. Or if, if, you know, one of the streamers, Netflix or HBO or whoever wants to do a show, I'm down to do it.

24:59But I, I couldn't wait to be in the industry. and it just so happened that like i guess i made it like i made my own little mini industry within the industry and it's now merging and that's how people do it these days no one's going to give you

25:15Matt Belloni:an opportunity you got to create it for yourself kareem as an online creator we have we've had a few people on uh you know we had uh sean evans on from hot ones if you were offered the role of a tv show host a traditional kind of media path late night with kareem do you yes or do you prefer the like social media, YouTube, or, or is the legacy traditional path still interesting to you? The legacy traditional path is still interesting to me. And I get asked this question a lot about late, like late night in particular, they're like late nights, dead late nights, dead. And I'm like, I don't think late nights dead.

25:49The format of late night is not dead. And you can see the proof is in the pudding. When you look at the clips the next day on YouTube or you're doing a

25:57Matt Belloni:version of it on YouTube. Yeah. I don't know if it's a version of it. It's like maybe, you know, the evolution of late night and i don't know it's like is an interview like i used to call intentionally i used to call subway takes a one minute podcast when i first started like between zero followers and a hundred thousand followers i used to call the podcast and the reason was because one day i realized that everything's a podcast like if you are listening to the david letterman show or kimmel or whatever and without watching it like you're still kind of listening to Like everything is a podcast.