The A-List Filmmakers Evangelizing Movie Theaters

0:04Matt Belloni:This episode of The Town is presented to you by AMC Networks. Billy Magnuson and Zach Galifianakis star in the new series The Audacity on AMC and AMC+. Influence rises, people unravel, and CEO meltdowns are business as usual among Silicon Valley elite. Executive produced by Jonathan Glatzer, a writer-producer of Succession and Better Call Saul. The Audacity premieres April 12th, only on AMC and AMC+. This episode is brought to you by TaxAct. Taxes, trust me, they sound far more complex than they actually are, and it's all thanks to TaxAct. They make it easy to do taxes online, offering step-by-step guidance so you can finish your taxes ahead of the April 15th deadline and get your maximum refund guaranteed.

0:51If you get stuck, just add expert assist, get unlimited help from a credentialed US-based tax expert. Visit taxact.com to learn more.

1:01Matt Belloni:It is Wednesday, April 8th. If it's early April in Hollywood, that means it's time for CinemaCon. That's the annual convention in Las Vegas for movie theater owners. About 3 ,000 of them, they get together next week for studio presentations of the upcoming movie slates, a lot of steak dinners, demonstrations of the latest in cutting edge projection and popcorn technology. Last year, Craig and I went to see David Copperfield with Sean and Amanda from the Big Picture podcast. That was before he got canceled for good. I'd like to point that out. David Copperfield, not Sean or Amanda. This year will be especially active at CinemaCon, not just because theater owners are likely in a pretty good mood with domestic box office up 25 % so far this year from last year and a stacked summer and holiday season still to come.

1:46Matt Belloni:I'll be busy too. I'm interviewing Jon Favreau, the Mandalorian and Grogu filmmaker during a lunchtime event on Thursday, and I'll also be heading up the annual Newsmaker panel with something new this year. Cinema United, that's the theater owner lobbying group that hosts CinemaCon, they're announcing today a new filmmaker council that will advocate on behalf of movie theaters. The council will be led by Jerry Bruckheimer, the F1 producer, producing legend. He's the chair of the committee. Emma Thomas, who makes movies with her husband, Christopher Nolan. She's vice chair. Other members of this council include Ryan Coogler, Brad Bird, Jason Reitman, Celine Song, a really great group of filmmakers.

2:23Matt Belloni:But what will this new council actually do? In advance of CinemaCon, I've got the Cinema United president and CEO, Michael O 'Leary, back on the show to discuss that. We're going to talk about this filmmaker council, as I said, and we're going to also get into the optimistic state of the box office right now. Is it real? The Paramount deal for Warner Brothers and how they're working to stop it or at least win some concessions and much more. So today is the CinemaCon preview on The Town with the top lobbyists for movie theaters. From The Ringer and Puck, I'm Matt Bellany and this is The Town.

3:00Matt Belloni:Okay, we are here with Michael O 'Leary, president and CEO of Cinema United and a returning champion. Welcome back. Thank you, Matt. Okay, so we're having you on in advance of the CinemaCon convention, the big gathering of the movie theater owners and executives and the studios that love them or somewhat love them. I wanted to get into your big announcement today, but first, it's an interesting moment because the box office for the year is up significantly, like more than 20 % over 2025. We're not quite back to pre-COVID levels, but we got a murderer's row lined up for the rest of this year it seems like the box office is going to be up significantly this year does that help or hurt your cause because it almost feels like the less dire the situation is the more people are sort of like oh whatever the the theaters are okay we don't have to do much for them and you are the chief lobbyist for the theaters it's almost better for you if it's a dire situation.

4:08Well, thank you for having me on. The first thing I would say is we're ecstatic about the state of the box office right now. And we hope that your predictions are right and that it continues right through the end of 2026. At the same time, to go to your larger point, I believe that the entire entertainment system is in a state of flux right now. And there are things in the marketplace that we should be trying to adapt and change, frankly, moving forward. there's an opportunity here coming out of the pandemic to create a system which works more effectively for the entire industry. And I think that that's not something that changes just because you have a continuing positive growth in the box office.

4:52Matt Belloni:Yeah, I guess it just means fewer bankruptcies. All right. So let's get into this council that you have put together of filmmakers. I keep wanting to call it a Jedi Council because it's some pretty big names. You've got Jerry Bruckheimer as your chair. You've got Emma Thomas, the big producer, Christopher Nolan's wife as vice chair. Ryan Coogler, Brad Bird, Jason Reitman, Celine Song. Not bad. What are these filmmakers actually doing for you? Other than a press release. Sure, sure. So this is something that I've been interested in for a long time. And I believe that our industry works better when we work collaboratively.

5:33And so the people that you just named, the people on this council, they're not just world class creators. They're respected voices throughout the industry and the things that they say have impact. And so this council will effectively serve as kind of global ambassadors for the theatrical experience. They'll do some things publicly. They'll do some things privately. But it's going to truly be a collaborative effort between Cinema United, the exhibition industry and the folks on this council.

6:00Matt Belloni:So what would they do publicly and privately? Sure. So I think that specifically it kind of falls into three general areas. One is advocating for the importance of the theatrical experience. That can be talking about windows. That can be talking about the Main Street impact that our industry has in communities all across the United States and around the world. I think a big part of it, which isn't perhaps obvious, is strengthening the relationship between exhibition and filmmakers. These people are all love going to the movies and they have very strong opinions about what that experience will be like.

6:31And frankly, it'll be good for the people that I represent in exhibition to hear that perspective in ways that we can make the experience better for everyone. And I think the third category, Matt, is probably building the audience. You know, we feel very good about some of the numbers we're seeing in terms of young people going back to the theaters. But one of the hurdles we have to get over, not just this year, but in the coming years, is we have to build back that theater-going audience. And I think that these people can have an impact in doing that.

6:59Matt Belloni:So like you're getting Jerry Bruckheimer to show up at a ribbon cutting of a cinema location in Pacoima? I think that there's a number of ways that folks can engage. They can do interviews, they can do speeches, be on panels. They can do public appearances at theaters. There's more traditional forms of advocacy they can engage in. They can engage in letter writing, whether it's to a paper or to a member of Congress, social media collaborations. They can do all kinds of different things. And, you know, it's really, from my perspective, the fact that so many marquee filmmakers are willing to commit the time and energy to support the theatrical experience, it speaks to the value that they see in theatrical as a part of the art form.

7:40Matt Belloni:Well, Reitman owns a theater. He does. He's rehabbing the Westwood Fox or the Village. But, yeah, so this is smart, I think, Because, you know, no disrespect to you and your colleagues at Cinema United, but Ryan Coogler and Jason Reitman and those guys are much better advocates for the theatrical experience, at least publicly, than suits in Washington or elsewhere. and if you can get them, you know, I said from the beginning, the most effective marketing that Warner Brothers had for sinners was simply Ryan Coogler talking about the different aspect ratios and lenses and how you can see the film in different theaters and get a slightly different experience.

8:24Matt Belloni:And that went viral. And it was something that people cared about. You know, Ryan Gosling getting up in front of a theater before Project Hail Mary and saying, It's not your job to support theaters. It's our job to put movies in theaters that you want to see. Do you agree with that? I completely agree with that. And I say that as a suit from Washington. There's no question that their voices are respected and sought out. And they just have much greater impact. And that's why we're so excited about the potential of working closely with this group. Well, I hope it's not just a press release. I hope you actually get them to do things.

9:02Matt Belloni:because and then privately does that just mean that if i'm a studio head and i have a meeting with someone who is on this list they're going to demand a longer window in my meeting you know i don't think that level of granularity is something we've discussed these folks are engaged in the industry on a daily level and they can carry messages in different ways i think part of what makes the group important and will ultimately make it successful is everybody can kind of figure out their way to do it most effectively. Everybody has their own voice. And some people may just pick up the phone and say, hey, you need to pay attention to this.

9:38Other people may take a different approach. And so I think it really gives us a lot of different options, but it helps us reach the right people on issues that are super important to the exhibition industry.

9:48Matt Belloni:Well, Emma Thomas and Chris Nolan, they put their deals up front and say, 120-day window, or we're not doing it with your studio, which is ultimately the most effective piece of leverage that you can have if you're a filmmaker like that yes it is all right let's talk about windows because where are we right now there's a lot of noise when netflix was in the mix to buy warner brothers you guys came out you know put out your statement expressing skepticism about it but willing to talk it was very kind of both sidesy what now netflix has gone away paramount seems to be uh on the path to closing although there There are some potential challenges.

10:26Matt Belloni:Where are you guys as an organization in terms of either challenging or being skeptical? Or have you been won over by this promise that is not enforceable to release 30 movies per year on movie screens? We are largely in the same place that we've been in since the outset, Matt. And that is that we are opposed to the merger. We view the promises of 30 movies in a year with great skepticism. And we've conveyed that to the folks at Paramount. That's not a surprise. You know, this is such a key issue for our membership, and it goes right to the heart of our ability to survive as an industry. And when you look at in the recent past, the drop in production, which accompanies consolidation, it's just not something that's sustainable if it happens again.

11:14It happened a few years ago with Disney and Fox. And the ramifications of this are just going to be much more dire. So we are continuing to press our case. We're talking to regulators at the federal, state level. You are. We are. Absolutely. And and our our international colleagues are doing the same things around the world. And we're continuing to make the case that there needs to be, you know, consideration of the impact that this transaction is going to have on Main Street because it's going to be significant.

11:45Matt Belloni:But what do you do? What do you actually push for? Is there even a chance of some consent decree that says, okay, you're talking about 30 movies a year, commit to it for five years, seven years, 10 years with a mandated government requirement that 30 movies get released theatrically with marketing spends, et cetera. Like that seems like it would be impossible to police. I think that this is a unique industry. And part of the conversations that we're having with regulators right now is just to help them understand how this industry works. And so I think that it may seem as though those things are challenging and that they may be difficult to enforce.

12:27But we have to continue this process and to see what is possible. I haven't given up faith that there is a way that we can somehow make a manageable consent decree or government-ordered mandate that would put conditions in place that would govern this transaction going forward. It's simply not enough for us to take people's promises, and you can't pay your lease, you can't make payroll with promises. We need something more substantial than that. And I think you talked about the skepticism about making all of the movies. You know, I think the last time Paramount put 15 movies into wide release was 1988.

13:06And historically, Warner Brothers has done it more often. But in the last four years, they've been around 10 or 11. So the skepticism that you identified in your initial question is well found. 1988 is a long time ago. A lot has changed.

13:20Matt Belloni:It is. And I've said from the beginning that I think what's going to happen is they will ramp up and they will put not 30, but close to 30 in theaters for a couple of years. And then they will have some financial issue or problems, or they'll release some bombs and they'll say, you know what, we tried it and we're just going to pull back and the market has spoken and we're going to have, and the same with Netflix, if they had gotten the deal too. So if there's no, cause if there's no promise or enforceable contract, there's nothing to say once this deal closes, they can't pull back. And I think they ultimately will, which means you are smart to try to push for something.

13:58Matt Belloni:I just don't know what regulatory body is going to require that. Well, we'll see. I think we're having conversations with a number of regulators, as I said, at the state and federal level. And, you know, we'll see. And Amazon seems to be friend of theaters right now. This is their big year. Finally, I was there at CinemaCon two years ago where I expressed some skepticism that they would ever ramp up to a meaningful slate of theatrical movies. This is the year. At least 13 movies, by my count, are getting theatrical releases. They had some bombs at the beginning of the year with Crime 101, Melania, and now they've got Mercy.

14:38Matt Belloni:Now they've got a gigantic hit. How important is this for you guys that Amazon can feel a taste of success in theaters it's incredibly important you can't really overstate it they have been consistent over the past number of months saying that they were committed and that they were going to put movies into theaters that were going to resonate with audiences and they followed through and they've done it and we hope that this is just the start of a long series of successful films but what happened with apple apple had a huge success last year with f1 and then nothing is apple out of theaters now?

15:14Matt Belloni:Well, that's a question you would have to ask Apple. I don't believe. Oh, trust me. I have. I've asked Eddie Q point blank and he says, Oh no, no, no. For the right project. I've asked them many, many times. And yet we have zero Apple films scheduled for theatrical release at wide release this year. Maybe they'll put the Ryan Reynolds mayday in theaters. Maybe they'll do others. We don't know, but currently zero releases. So I think that, you know, we're at a point now where they have continued to say that they're going to be in theatrical. They had an enormous success last year with F1, which resonated around the world.

15:51And we're kind of, we hope that they follow through on what they said, but we need to see that in action. And so that's kind of, I think, where we are with Apple right now. I have no reason to doubt what they're saying, but we're at a point where we're looking forward to seeing things in the theater and in the pipeline to get to the theater.

16:07Matt Belloni:Well, and you know, your chair of your Jedi Council of filmmakers is Jerry Bruckheimer who had that success with Apple and has another UFO project with Joe Kaczynski at Apple, which presumably will get theaters. But this is the kind of situation where someone like Jerry could throw his weight around and say, listen, I can't get into business with you guys. If you're only going to release my movie in theaters, like let's do what Chris Nolan did or allegedly did where he had some conversations with universal about their windows and they then backed off this 17-day window guarantee, and they're now, in 2027, guaranteeing five weekends in theaters.

16:48Matt Belloni:Maybe that's where this council of filmmakers can show their weight. Yeah, look, I think that's right. Jerry Bruckheimer is a tireless advocate for movies in the theater. And so, you know, that's part of his role as the leader, obviously, is to advocate for that. And he's been doing that his whole career, and we expect him to continue to do that. And as I said earlier, he has a voice which is really unmatched in many ways. But I think part of what you're seeing at a macro level is there's starting to be a little bit of a recognition that windows are significant, that windows do matter. There may still be debates about what the exact length should be, but we've just come out of a period of years where there was five or six years of experimentation and trying different things.

17:31and where we've ended up is you now have a situation where you know tom rothman comes on your shows and says windows are the single most important thing universal's announcement

17:41Matt Belloni:yes they they just to be clear they announced that they're getting rid of the 17 day guarantee for their movies not focus movies but big universal and they are moving to a five weekend guarantee for movies right and then you have disney which continues to have a window which is consistently over 60 days. So you're starting to see a shift, I think, in the perspective on this. And we're a long way from where we were four or five years ago. We're not where we need to be, but we're moving in the right direction. Where do we need to be? I had an interesting call with a distribution executive a couple of weeks ago where he was saying, you're focusing on the wrong thing.

18:18Matt Belloni:This whole universal announcement of moving their PVOD window. PVOD doesn't matter. PVOD is a transaction oriented business where you are paying for the movie. What matters is the SVOD window, the subscription streaming window where these movies go on these services. People perceive them to be free because they already subscribe to Netflix or Hulu or whatever. And unless that window moves up from where it currently is, which is usually about 90 days longer, a little bit for some of the bigger movies. Disney just did 104 days for Zootopia too. unless that moves to 120 days, that is the problem.

18:58I don't disagree with that. We think that both of the windows are important. The notion that PVOD doesn't matter is incorrect. And the reason it's incorrect is because it changes, it has changed the perception of the consumer. They just hear that it's going to be in the home in a number of weeks. And the PVOD-SVOD differentiation doesn't necessarily resonate.

19:17Matt Belloni:Oh, I think it does. I think it absolutely does. Because when they click on it and you have to pay$20, that's a slap in the face. But when you see it on Netflix, that's different. But by the time they click on it, Matt, it's too late to have seen it in the theater. And they made the decision not to see it in the theater because they heard it was coming to the home. So that's a loss. That's a loss there. There was a lot of conversation around the PIVOT window about how the drops were not affected. The impact wasn't at the end of the cycle. The impact was at the beginning. How many people went at the beginning?

19:45And there's evidence from NRGs put some stuff out that consumers continue to think that things are actually going to be in the home. faster than they are. So part of what has to happen here is there has to be a reorientation of the consumer mindset that they understand that a movie is going to be in a theater for a period of time. Because the example you just gave, they made a decision, I'll just see it at home in a few weeks. Then they click on it, it's$29. And there's a chance you've lost that consumer. You've already lost them for the theater. They don't pay the PIVOD. You've lost two opportunities to make money with one consumer.

20:19Matt Belloni:Yeah, I just think that happens once. And then next time you say, oh, maybe if I see an ad for it on my TV, that's not subscription streaming. That's a transaction. This is always there's always been VOD. But whatever, we don't have to debate that. I agree that lengthening the windows for both is beneficial to theaters. And I just wonder, you know, this new Tom Rothman said the new Sony pay one deal at Netflix is 120 days for most movies. So that's a step in the right direction for you guys. Absolutely. I wonder if others will follow. I think so. I hope so. I mean, we're going to continue to press that case.

20:54And like I said, we're making incremental progress. We're not where we want to be, but we're heading in the right direction.

21:02Matt Belloni:This episode is brought to you by HBO Max. It's the final season of the Emmy award-winning comedy series Hacks, premiering April 9th. Starring Jean Smart and Hannah Einbinder, season five finds comedy queen Debra Vance and her writing partner Ava Daniels returning to Las Vegas to solidify Debra's legacy. Don't miss the premiere of the final season of Hacks on April 9th, exclusively on HBO Max. And listen to the official Hacks podcast on Spotify and HBO Max. Subscription required. Visit hbomax.com for details. Are you looking for support in your weight management journey? ZepBound Terzepatide may be able to help.

21:41ZepBound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with obesity. or some adults with overweight who also have weight-related medical problems to lose excess body weight and keep the weight off. ZepBound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, or 15 milligram injection. ZepBound contains terzepatide and should not be used with other terzepatide-containing products or any GLP-1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if ZepBound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pens or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2.

22:25Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop ZepBound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. If you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills. Taking ZepBound with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems. Talk to your doctor.