In short
Mid-year 2026 Hollywood “winners and losers” report, plus a discussion of industry recovery vs ongoing job losses, and specific box-office/streaming performance.
Guests
Lucas Shaw (Bloomberg reporter). Matt Belloni (The Town host; from The Ringer/Puck). Craig Horbeck (producer). Other named figures are discussed, not guests: Ted Sarandos and Greg Peters (Netflix co-CEOs), Ben Affleck, Graham King, James Gunn/Peter Safran, Kathleen Kennedy, Greta Gerwig, Greg Hessinger (AMPTP), Brendan Carr (FCC), Brian Roberts (Comcast), Mike Cavanaugh (NBCUniversal), Bill Ackman, plus Focus/Amazon executives and others.
Key claims
Netflix engagement is weakening (drop-offs season 1 to 2); a free tier/ads or other ecosystem moves may be needed. DC’s Supergirl is a major flop. Star Wars: The Mandalorian and Grogu underperformed because TV-to-film appetite is limited. Greta Gerwig is a Netflix “winner” for getting a major theatrical push.
Notable examples
Harlan Coben adaptation on Netflix; Michael Jackson biopic (Michael) reaching $1B; Obsession (Focus horror) and Project Hail Mary (Ryan Gosling) as standout hits; World Cup driving record US viewership and potential Peacock subscriber lift.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOCelebrity Weddings and Industry Buzz
2:10 to 4:25
Discussion about high-profile weddings and the entertainment industry's reaction.
“All right, we are here with Lucas Shaw from Bloomberg back again.”
Winners and Losers of 2026
4:25 to 6:41
Analyzing the winners and losers in Hollywood so far in 2026.
“to talk about the winners and losers of the year so far.”
Netflix's Challenges and Prospects
6:41 to 10:23
Exploring Netflix's current struggles and potential future strategies.
“Do they have to launch a free tier of Netflix?”
Movie Business Analysis
10:23 to 14:00
Discussing various movie projects and their box office performance.
“Do you want to do your first loser or do you want to do a winner?”
Exploring Movie Winners and Losers of 2026
14:00 to 16:50
Discussion on the biggest wins and losses in the movie industry for 2026 so far.
“Would you consider that the biggest, maybe not surprise, I don't think people were shocked by it, but sort of like the biggest win relative to expectations for any movie so far this year?”
The Fall of Supergirl and DC Leadership
16:50 to 21:00
Analysis of Supergirl's box office failure and its implications for DC's leadership.
“Now, is it time for a winner for me or a loser?”
The Struggles of Star Wars Under Kathleen Kennedy
21:00 to 23:10
Critique of Kathleen Kennedy's legacy with Star Wars and the impact of recent releases.
“And I do think that Ted is coming around to this notion that you need this big, splashy theatrical marketing moment to create real IP value.”
Negotiations and Wins in the Entertainment Industry
25:14 to 28:00
Review of Greg Hessinger's successful negotiation strategies in the industry.
“You should do a winner because I want to do a couple of losers.”
Media Companies Push Back Against Administration
28:00 to 29:45
Learn how media companies are responding to political pressures differently now than in the past.
“Also keeping it wonky because, well, one, he tried to go at it.”
Paramount's Political Strategy
29:46 to 31:24
Discover the implications of Paramount's outreach efforts regarding their merger and political relationships.
“did in their case, or if they think it's something really egregious, they'll just, you know, they'll fight back.”
Show all 16 chapters
Brian Roberts and Comcast's Future
31:25 to 33:18
Explore the changing dynamics at Comcast and what it means for Brian Roberts' legacy.
“I'm going to go to my final loser here, and this is going to be a conversation.”
Shifts in Leadership at Comcast
33:19 to 35:37
Understand the significance of leadership changes at Comcast and their impact on the company's direction.
“Well, and doing whatever he can do to maintain control of those businesses, which seems to be the primary goal here.”
Winners and Losers in the Film Industry
35:38 to 38:16
Identify key figures and trends shaping the film industry in the first half of the year.
“And I do think, you know, they're putting kind of a financial and a lot of an operation steward in place, not a kind of core entertainment person.”
The Horror Genre's Comeback
38:17 to 40:46
Examine how original horror films have revived their presence in the market this year.
“Obsession is like going to wipe the floor with the Spielberg movie.”
World Cup Success and Media Impact
40:47 to 42:01
Discuss the implications of the World Cup's ratings on media partners and streaming platforms.
“And yes, it's not going to be great for her next time a piece of edgy material comes through her door.”
Telemundo's Impact on Peacock Subscriptions
42:01 to 43:28
Learn about the potential rise in Peacock subscriptions due to the World Cup and the implications of subscriber churn.
“The Telemundo people, I think, especially because of how big those numbers are.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00This episode is brought to you by Accenture. When your advertising operations fall out of sync, campaigns slow down, insights get buried, and opportunities get missed. That's why Spotify and Accenture are working together to reinvent the rhythm of ad sales using automation, analytics, and smarter workflows to simplify campaign delivery and access better data across the business. The result? Less time spent on operations, more time connecting brands with the moments and fandoms that matter most. To learn more, check out Accenture.com slash Spotify.
0:36Matt Belloni:This episode is presented by AMC Network. A new chapter in Anne Rice's Immortal Universe begins with AMC's The Vampire Lestat. Get a backstage pass to the iconic frontman who Pace Magazine calls a Bowie-inspired rocker that will have fans screaming. Don't miss the legendary vampire Lestat de Liancourt in his own electrifying rock saga. Watch the Vampire Lestat Sundays only on AMC and AMC+. Learn more at amcplus.com. It is Monday, July 6. We've reached the halfway point of 2026 in Hollywood. So far, I think it's been a year of recovery. Deal volume in the entertainment media space hit$112 billion, highest since 2021 at this point.
1:21Matt Belloni:Box office is up about 15 % over last year and is on track for the first$10 billion domestic year since 2019. And the World Cup viewership is setting new records in this country. But don't get me wrong, this is still a hugely challenged industry. Job losses have continued. Even Netflix is now struggling with its viewership numbers. For all the success of the box office, just in the past month, We've had Minions and Supergirl and Masters of the Universe, all disappointments at the box office, at least domestically. So at the halfway point, it's time for the mid-year winners and losers report. We've got Lucas Shaw here from Bloomberg, and we're going to go through our picks one by one.
1:57Matt Belloni:Winners, losers, and some of the WTF moments so far in 2026. From The Ringer and Puck, I'm Matt Bellany, and this is The Town.
2:10Matt Belloni:All right, we are here with Lucas Shaw from Bloomberg back again. I got to say, Lucas, for the second weekend in a row, a big flashy wedding that I was not invited to. First yours, and then Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey's. You were not there, correct? I was not. You know, I spoke to some people who were going, whom both of us know, and I have yet to get my full debrief from the people who were there. I don't care. I know the public does, and so we're going to talk about it. Oh, come on. It made me feel icky. Come on, the guest list was fascinating to me. And we're not going to get into it. Go to Jam Session if you want that.
2:52Matt Belloni:They have a great recap. But we got to discuss our guy, Adam Aaron, my friend, CEO of AMC Theaters. just going online, posting about the whole thing, revealing the dress, revealing the tux, and then he deleted his LinkedIn. Amazing stuff. We'll never get invited to a Taylor Swift-related event ever again. Maybe her next movie will be exclusive to Regal, you know, after his behavior today. Oh, I hope not. Don't say that. Yeah, I mean, it's amazing. I talked to a couple other executives who were like, I can't talk to you because I don't want to get the Adam Aaron treatment.
3:36Matt Belloni:It's crazy, though, the number of execs that were there. I mean, sort of revealing. Basically, all the top execs at Disney were there, except Josh Jamarro. He doesn't have a relationship with her. But all the GMA people, you know, she used to reveal her album stuff on GMA. The Disney film people that are working on the film with her, like, interesting stuff there. She invited the head of the Academy, Lynette Howell Taylor. She was there. She wants an Oscar. She wants an Oscar for that Toy Story song. I know. I think they may have another relationship there. But yeah, all the UMG people were there.
4:15Record label people, concert promoters, actors that she's barely met. It's gross. Sorry. I know.
4:22Matt Belloni:Unfortunately for us, we were not invited. All right. That's enough about that. We're not going into that. But we are here. to talk about the winners and losers of the year so far. Adam Aaron, not on that list. He might have been a good candidate for a winner until now. They've had a box office is up. Although shaky, shaky weekend. I know, that's true. Trust me, I'm monitoring this. I have minions in the draft. And now Moana's got to work. It really does. But I'm hoping that the minion softness will help Moana. Okay, so let's go through our winners and losers. And this is our own subjective selections, Our criteria is who has had the best business year so far, personal stuff outside.
5:03Matt Belloni:Let's start with losers. Is that okay, Greg? Yeah, I'll allow it. Sure. You're such an optimistic guy. Instead of calling it winners and losers, we're going to call it losers and winners. The math. That's fine. But I think this is the most interesting loser of the year because you and I both identified these people as winners earlier this year. And I'm talking about Ted Sarandos and Greg Peters, the co-CEOs of Netflix. When the whole Warner Brothers thing didn't work out, they walked away with$2.8 billion. They ran up the price on Paramount to buy the asset. And we both said, okay, they came out of this pretty well.
5:40Matt Belloni:Cut to a few months later, the stock is down nearly 20 % this year, 40 % since they started going after Warner Brothers. They've sort of tipped their hand to cause Wall Street to be nervous about the company. You reported this weekend about their engagement problems on Netflix. Yeah, in particular, the fact that they're experiencing these huge drop-offs from season one to season two. And it's not just like a lot of people say, oh, it's because shows have been, they take too long in between seasons or binge. Those don't really explain it because it applies to shows that came back after a year. The binge model's been around forever.
6:21There are very real engagement concerns at Netflix right now that are getting talked about inside the company and with their partners.
6:28Matt Belloni:So that's the question I have for you is what is the solution here? What are the possible paths for Netflix to reverse and regain the confidence? Do they have to go out and buy NBCUniversal? Do they have to launch a free tier of Netflix? I think that's a more likely scenario. What do they have to do here? As it pertains to the program in particular, I don't think that they would say they have to do anything drastic, at least not right now. I think they would argue that this is just part of the normal ups and downs that they have. I'm just saying what I think they would say, where they have months where they don't have anything.
7:08And then guess what? Right now they do, in fact, have a huge hit, this Harlan Coben adaptation. And maybe they have a few more out the rest of the year. and we stopped talking about it because their engagement, even if it's not growing at what I think they hoped it would be, it still has been inching in the right direction. But I think to me, the bigger question is like the target for Netflix used to be basically replacing cable. And that just didn't happen, right? They are the number one paid streaming service. They are next to YouTube, the number two streaming service. But their share of television in the US is like 8 % and it's not going to suddenly jump to 10 or 15.
7:46So it feels like, you know, that, yeah, they, they, they may do something more significant. It's why they're experimenting with vertical videos. It's why they're experimenting or doing more in live sports. It's why they're trying podcasts. I think, you know, they had teased doing free before and then ultimately didn't do anything. I think it's totally reasonable to think that they would look at it again and what that might. Well, look at who they're losing to.
8:09Matt Belloni:They're losing to YouTube, which is free. They're now going to be facing Fox and Roku combined, and they have a pretty formidable free offering. And the content mix that they have been offering lately is leaning towards that direction. The podcast stuff is lower cost, lower return, we think, but it could be the basis of a free service that maybe puts some of this old library content that Netflix has been unwilling to license out onto a free service that serves as a pretty significant funnel to the paid service. I mean, Netflix is talking all about ads these days. A free tier would give them lots of ads.
8:50Matt Belloni:So would adding Peacock to Netflix. They could do some kind of a deal where they ingested the TF1 network in France and are now showing that in the Netflix ecosystem. You know, they could shake things up. Brandon Ross, the analyst, he said last week that they should replace Bella, the content chief, with Casey Bloys from HBO. I don't know that that would help make them more populous. Casey does a lot of more highbrow shows. You know, maybe replace Ted. I don't know. Like, how long does this go on before they do something? They've obviously had well-publicized talks with Casey. I don't think that Bella necessarily welcomes the idea of Casey joining the fold.
9:29And I don't see Casey at this point wanting to report to anyone but a CEO. So I don't know how that would resolve itself.
9:36Matt Belloni:I don't think Casey wants to be making 20 murder docs a year. I could be wrong, but I don't think he wants to be overseeing a slate of hundreds of titles. Right. I mean, you know, doing a spinoff of the Big Bang Theory is populist enough. And most of the populist stuff he pushes on as an HBO Max original anyways, so he doesn't paint the HBO brand. Yeah, but they're doing a lot of those. I've noted they're doing a lot of the franchise spinoff stuff, which seems to be working. I know. I don't think it's panic time at Netflix yet, but it will be interesting to see how they act in the next six months, especially after earnings come out, especially after the new engagement report comes out.
10:19Matt Belloni:And they need to do something. So we'll see what they do. All right. Let's move on to our. Do you want to do your first loser or do you want to do a winner? Let's let's lighten things up. Let's do a winner. A winner. Okay. Well, then I'll just keep it in the Netflix family. I feel like Ben Affleck is a huge winner for the first half of the year. Oh, good one. I mean, he takes a company that nobody knew he had and sells it for more than$600 million to Netflix. But that also, by the way, manages to allow them both to do an AI deal that doesn't cause huge outrage because Ben Affleck is a filmmaker.
10:55And so people trust that he is doing things sort of the ethical right way. I mean, that's what I've always wondered about this deal.
11:02Matt Belloni:Is this a game changer in the tech category or is this a$600 million press release? I think it's in between those two. I don't think people who really know AI video would necessarily describe it as a game changer. I mean, this is not, you know, a new video platform. It's not something that we're hearing everyone talk about, you know, using to make their videos. But I think if it comes to sort of professional film content, it's something that Netflix hopes they can use across a lot of their projects, or at least gets their division started. It's sort of like, it's also a little bit of an acquihire.
11:37I think it's more than just a nice press release, but I don't think this is going to change how everyone makes movies.
11:44Matt Belloni:And do they get the rip two, three, four, and five out of this as well? This is starting a pretty significant relationship with a guy who has previously not made movies for Netflix. And who makes the type of smart, populist-type entertainment that Netflix says is its bread and butter. Yeah, it's a good move. All right, so I'm going to then pivot to a winner here. I'm going to do as one of my winners, and this is going to pain me because he's been pretty awful to me during this entire process. I'm going to say Graham King is a big winner of the year. The producer of Michael, the Michael Jackson movie.
12:24Matt Belloni:That movie is going to get to a billion dollars and hasn't gotten there yet. We have not seen the big triumphant press release. But this is a movie that hit the absolute worst possible speed bumps on the way to theaters, having to scrap the entire third act, having to deal with all of the lawsuits. They finally just went full populist, give the fans what they want. A performance movie avoids all the controversy. We in the media jumped up and down, stomped our feet about how lame it is they did that. And then, boom, a billion dollars. So Graham was right. You view him as singularly responsible or just the most responsible?
13:07Matt Belloni:He was driving this train. And I think anyone associated with the movie, even Antoine Fuqua, the director, who gets credit here, Graham jumped on this project early, championed it as a full believer in Michael Jackson's innocence, I believe. He has not said that publicly. But he wanted to make this film. He got the Bohemian Rhapsody writer to get involved, John Logan. When everything fell apart, he put it back together. They are definitely going to do a second movie. The question is just when they're going to get everyone back together. He found the star, Jafar Jackson, who turned out to be amazing in the film.
13:45Matt Belloni:And I do think the movie will probably get some awards attention. I don't know that he'll get a nomination, but it'll probably get makeup and hairstyling. and it could get some other nominations there. So overall, huge win. Yeah. Would you consider that the biggest, maybe not surprise, I don't think people were shocked by it, but sort of like the biggest win relative to expectations for any movie so far this year? No, it's got to be Obsession. We'll get to that. Do you want to do a winner for yourself? I am going to do, well, I feel like I should do a loser. I haven't done a loser yet. All right, do a loser and then we'll get to the horror stuff.
14:22Matt Belloni:This will stay in the movie business. We'll just do a long run of movie stuff. I mean, I think that an obvious loser has to be James Gunn and Peter Safran, the DC guys. Oh, the DC heads. I mean, Supergirl, after two weekends, is that$100 million worldwide? Barely. Barely$100 million worldwide. Clearly the bomb of the year. Well, maybe Matt. Along with Matt. I would actually say this is bigger than Masters of the Universe because nobody thought Masters of the Universe was really going to work other than maybe a couple of people at Mattel. like Amazon, you know, DC, this was supposed to be the, you know, the, the rebooted DC under these two guys who knew what they were doing.
15:02They took a big victory lap after Superman, which was a hit, but not the massive hit that they made it out to be, especially given the cost. And then huge flame out on the second movie. It doesn't mean that they're going to necessarily abort the strategy, but if you're David Ellison and you get your deal done, how much faith are you putting in these guys to know what they're doing if they can't make Supergirl work? I know.
15:24Matt Belloni:Peter Safran did a rare statement to the New York Times the Sunday after the movie came out saying, well, Supergirl did not meet our box office expectations. It's just one component of a broader long-term strategy, i.e., David Ellison, we've got a long-term strategy. Please do not fire us. We have a vision. We know what we're doing. We remain confident in this is Peter Safran's quote. I don't know. I know it's the worst possible timing for them to have a the bomb in the summer. The only question is, why didn't you give me this movie? You had the opportunity to give me this movie and you chose Digger in our box office draft.
16:01I thought about it, but I just figured clearly incorrectly that the floor on a superhero movie was still like 250, 300. Like I didn't this movie is not going to sniff to. I kind of liked Millie Alcock. I thought the movie could potentially be decent, but yeah, no. You weren't at CinemaCon. It was kind of a disaster. I was not at CinemaCon. Clearly, I need to go to CinemaCon.
16:25Matt Belloni:You do. Honestly, we got to get you there next year. It's kind of ridiculous that you don't go. I'm probably going to go next year. We always do an outing with the Ringer people, with the big picture people. We went to Wizard of Oz this year. Last year, we did David Copperfield. I'm trying to get us to go to Carrot Top, but Craig keeps putting his foot down. I throw my body in front of that every year, yeah. It will happen. We will see Carrot Top before he retires. All right. So that's your loser. Now, is it time for a winner for me or a loser? You can go whichever direction you want. All right, you know what?
16:58Matt Belloni:We're doing movies. Let's do another loser. And this is going to go in the sort of bomb that says more about where the company is going. and I'm gonna go with my old friend Kathleen Kennedy, the former head of Lucasfilm. One final kiss-off disaster she left behind before she'd stepped down at the beginning of this year. The Mandalorian and Grogu got to$330 million worldwide. Not great for a Star Wars movie. By far the lowest grossing of any Star Wars project. The thing is, the movie was fine. Like, Favreau did a good job. It's just the appetite for a TV show movie was not there. This is now a TV franchise.
17:44Matt Belloni:You just had to kick her on the way out. I did because you know what? Nobody was talking about the fact that she did this. Now, Dave Filoni, who is currently running Lucasfilm with another executive, he was very involved in this movie too. He's a Mandalorian guy as well. And so he is not blameless here. But this strategy, they didn't have a Star Wars movie for seven years. and to relaunch the movie franchise with a TV show episode did not work. And we blame the leadership of Lucasfilm more than your buddy, Jon Favreau. I do, because the movie's fine. The movie's, I mean, I'm biased. I like Favreau.
18:20Matt Belloni:I think he's great. And he's a very commercial filmmaker when he wants to be. But he was a director for hire on this one. They came to him and said, why don't we do this as a theatrical movie? So that was coming from Disney. and whether it was Kathy or whether it was Alan Bergman or even Iger that said, let's play it absolutely safe. This is the problem with Star Wars. They played it absolutely safe and it's blown up in their face. They couldn't do a Lord and Miller Star Wars movie. It was too outside the box, but yet they're bringing the Emperor back in Rise of Skywalker because it was just the bottom line base.
18:56Matt Belloni:What will the fans be okay with? And they thought that was the same with a Mandalorian movie. It turns out not true. I hear you and I encourage risk taking, but you just praised Graham King for playing it safe on Michael Jackson. And now we're ripping Disney for playing it safe on Star Wars. But that's a different scenario. That was a scandal hot potato. And who knows? Maybe the original version of Michael would have also done a billion dollars. Maybe engaging with the allegations against him would have done a billion dollars. Maybe. Probably not, but maybe. but with Star Wars with a 50 year old franchise you gotta do something new and interesting with it and you know the movie didn't you didn't learn anything about the Mandalorian there was nothing new there were no big stars in it there was not they did an episode two episodes of the show they were good episodes of the show but that's not enough that's not theatrical we'll see what Sean Levy does next year with Gosling one final kiss off from Kathy Kennedy okay you want me to do a winner or a loser let's do a palate cleanser do a winner I'm going to save one for later Because I think it's too obvious I feel like we got to do Greta Gerwig as a winner Okay, give me your argument My argument would be that She is getting the biggest theatrical release In the history of Netflix And that whether Sure, maybe it was timing Maybe it was right movie But she proves to be the one director Who gets Netflix to do what They've never done for any other director and I think it speaks at least partly to some of the power that she and the producers on that movie had in the marketplace to be able to push it, right?
20:37She's not Nolan, but she's definitely in that next tier of directors who can kind of call her shot on a lot of this stuff.
20:43Matt Belloni:And she has the IP card to play with Netflix as well. Netflix doesn't have a lot of IP and she's attached to this big piece of IP in Narnia that Netflix would like to turn into a major franchise. And I do think that Ted is coming around to this notion that you need this big, splashy theatrical marketing moment to create real IP value. And I think we're seeing it with what you reported this past week about their TV shows losing consciousness with their audience between first and second season. It's not just that they wait a long time to produce the second season of a show. It's that the binge model encourages, you suck it down, you enjoy it, you instantly forget about it, and you're hungry again.
21:37Matt Belloni:It's the Chinese food of TV shows. So with something as important to Netflix as Narnia, they're going to give her theaters. That's what Ted has decided. Well, I think also the only reason I pause is I think for television, they are still kind of reluctant to really do the pre-release marketing and one of the issues on the seasons is like they just basically tell people who watch the first season to watch the second one they don't put in a lot of effort to expand the tent which is something that hbo does a lot right sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't but shows like industry grow over time succession grows over time netflix shows generally don't grow but with movies you got no choice you got one shot at it.
22:20You either got to get people to show up that first weekend or they don't. And if they don't, sure, maybe something will get discovered online like has happened with certain movies. But usually in those cases, there was a robust marketing budget and it just pays dividends later. Like with Encanto and Disney Plus, it did okay in theaters and then it blew up at home, but it had a real marketing budget.
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22:44Matt Belloni:Fun little factoid from The Taylor Wedding. I am told by someone who was there and witnessed it that our friend Adam Aaron went up to Greta and started bowing in front of her. It was apparently very awkward. He is a big fan, no doubt, of Greta Gerwig and the theaters that she got for her movie. She accomplished what he could not. Exactly.
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25:03Matt Belloni:A trusted urology specialist can help diagnose PD and walk you through your options, including non-surgical treatment. Visit TalkAboutPD.com. All right. Let me go on to another. Should I do a winner? You should do a winner because I want to do a couple of losers. Yeah, I'll do a winner. I am going to get a little wonky on this one. I'm going to do someone not famous. Do Greg Hessinger, who is the new head of the AMPTP, the studio coalition that negotiates with talent. this year everybody was afraid that the three main talent guilds actors writers directors were going to threaten to strike the ai situation has only gotten worse the industry is in a pretty tough spot not only does this guy come in as the new negotiator but he extracts a fourth year in these deals that i thought was just going to be a non-starter that these guilds are going to be like, no, why would we give up our leverage of negotiating with you every three years?
26:06Matt Belloni:And one by one, starting with the writers, which was the biggest surprise to me, he got four-year deals. And yes, they had to agree to fund their pension plans, which were in a very tough spot because of all the unemployment. And there are gains that the guilds have been very happy about. So to a lesser extent, I think the heads of the guilds are also winners here. but Greg Hessinger, AMPTP guy, comes in and kills it in his first negotiation. Well, it definitely helped that nobody wanted another strike, right? Like the last time everyone just decided there's going to be a labor stoppage and we're okay with it.
26:41And this time it was like the opposite. Both sides wanted to do deals. Nobody wanted... No appetite. There was no appetite for some protracted dispute or stoppage. And so I think both sides did a good job of identifying like, okay, this is what matters the most to us, and we're going to get it. And we can compromise on a lot of the other things. So for a lot of the unions, it was pension, healthcare, that kind of thing. And for the studios, it was getting that extra year so they didn't have to worry about it. And they would give a little bit more money on the areas that mattered. And it made it kind of a non-story this year, which I think was very reassuring for most of the people who work in the business.
27:19And us. We don't have to talk about it for six months. I don't know. For the health of an industry that we both care about, yes. Selfishly, as a journalist, those strikes were great stories.
27:32Matt Belloni:That's true. I know all the writers coming after us for not 100 % buying their line. I've been on Fresh Air once in my life, and it was because she wanted to talk about the labor strikes in Hollywood. I know. I miss Adam Conover. I like having Adam Conover on the show. He's fun to fight with. All right. So give me your next one. Give me your loser. I have a couple, but I'm going to go with one that I think is a little more interesting, which is I feel like Brendan Carr is a loser for the first half of the year. Oh, wow. The FCC chairman. Why? Yeah. Also keeping it wonky because, well, one, he tried to go at it.
28:05He and Trump tried to go at it with Kimmel again and just got completely smacked down. And I think the reduction in approval of the current administration has weakened their ability to just sort of force things. There was a feeling in the first six to 12 months of Trump 2 where the media companies had no backbone. They didn't feel like they could stand up because the kind of populist sentiment was behind the administration. and that has changed to where I think media companies, yes, one, they've seen that the administration is generally not, is like open for business and so they view that as a good thing.
28:50But at the same time, there's, I think, less fear of the administration's ability to push them around. And I think as Brendan Carr, as sort of the public face of Trump's war on the media, he just has a little less juice than he did six months ago.
29:07Matt Belloni:I think Disney growing a pair and fighting back a little bit more on this stuff is a factor here. I mean, I don't think Brendan Carr expected Disney to launch this campaign on all their stations to get people to submit public comments about whether The View is a news program. And that, I mean, you could see him on Twitter, like fighting back to them fighting back, which suggests that he's surprised they're standing up. Or he's distracted or just he's got more of a fight. Whereas before it was like, we're going to sue you. Okay, we'll settle. This time you've got Disney pushing back. I don't, you know, I just don't think companies are going to lie down in the same way.
29:45They will either find a way to get a deal, kind of like a side deal, like Live Nation did in their case, or if they think it's something really egregious, they'll just, you know, they'll fight back.
29:55Matt Belloni:And depending on what happens in November, it becomes a question of like whether they're even relevant at all. like whether if the you know congress turns then is he going to even be able to to go after these companies at all or is the opposite going to be the case is elizabeth warren and all of her friends they're they going to start coming after the paramounts and these other companies that have settled or given concessions totally possible um i think it would really only work if kind of both houses flip but what do i know yeah i'm surprised that paramount hasn't done more outreach to the Democrats.
30:30Matt Belloni:Aren't you a little surprised about that? What do you mean by that? Yes, they've met with Rob Bonta and they've done the basic minimum. But I would think we'd see at least a little more outreach from the Paramount side on this merger. Well, I think they were when they were trying to get the deal. My understanding is they spent some time with a bunch of the state AGs. But you're talking about trying to make sure that, you know, senators and Congress people, like the Cory bookers who've, who've, and, and Adam shifts and people who've said what is happening with this deal. Why not make sure that they're on their side?
31:01Yeah. Or at least like meet with them and
31:04Matt Belloni:say, this is what we're prepared to do to assuage your concerns. Yeah. It's one, it's possible that they have done a lot of it behind the scenes and we just don't know about it. The other is there, those people are not really in a position to block the deal right now. And so I think they're very focused on the people who can get them what they want. Right. Although that may be short excited. All right. I'm going to go to my final loser here, and this is going to be a conversation. I've got to pick Brian Roberts, the CEO of Comcast for now. You're not buying into the spin. You're you're we'll get there.
31:39Matt Belloni:We'll get there. But just from a macro perspective, regardless of what happens, we're going to have one company with all the cable networks, one company with NBC Universal and the theme parks, one company with Comcast and the connectivity. Roberts family will own controlling shares of each of these companies. But the era of Brian Roberts as this larger than life mogul that controls all of these things in one company and is a player that everyone in Hollywood has to deal with and care about. I think that's kind of coming to an end. I don't totally agree with that. I understand why you would make them a loser.
32:17but it doesn't make him any less of a mogul that they're controlling three separate companies it didn't make john malone or barry diller less of moguls that they had kind of these confederations of assets um you know he still i what it ends is sort of the yeah this sort of conglomerate era in media where you would try to combine content and distribution or at least old-fashioned content in distribution. And I think it's also part of this kind of very gradual changing of the guard as to who matters, right? You know, 10, 15 years ago, it was Brian Roberts and Rupert Murdoch and Bob Iger and a couple and Jeff Bukas and Sherry Redstone, or really then maybe Sumner Redstone.
33:08And on that list, like only one or two of those people really matter anymore. and brian is in a transition phase where he's having to think about succession at its companies he's having to think about how to position them and they also have to make a decision probably where like if they want to keep if they want to please wall street they either need to get bigger you know merge some merge comcast and charter merge nbc universal with something buy a couple things and fold it in or decide to cash out on a couple of those assets and focus and there he continues to take a very sort of methodical and unflashy approach to figuring out some of the challenges at his business.
33:46Matt Belloni:Well, and doing whatever he can do to maintain control of those businesses, which seems to be the primary goal here. I guess it just comes down to what you think the future is for these assets and whether you think NBCUniversal is a buyer or a seller now, whether you think there is some kind of roll-up to do in the cable and connectivity business. And it just feels like from now on with this company, we are going to be talking about the potential disposition of it. We're not going to be talking about all of these great assets and the synergies and everything else. It's who's going to buy what, what are they going to potentially buy?
34:25Matt Belloni:And that's going to be the narrative around this once great media company. Yeah. Although we would have thought at this point, we might be having more conversations is about deals with Versant, and it's still been a relatively quiet company. They just bought a golf technology company today. What are you talking about? How could I omit that? Side note, big winner, Mike Cavanaugh, getting to be the CEO of NBCUniversal on a quasi-permanent basis. He's been kind of acting CEO. This guy, not a lot of media operation experience. He's a JP Morgan dealmaker who's been at Comcast a long time. can't say that his track record has led to a lot of stock price growth over the past 10 years at comcast and now he's running nbc universal doesn't that suggest that this is just a company looking for deals now maybe but the big comcast which mike cavanaugh i mean well one take a step back would you say it is a promotion or a demotion because he was co-ceo of the whole company alongside brian roberts but getting to be ceo on his own is a is better i think so because brian Roberts was the kind of de facto guy.
35:32Matt Belloni:He'd been there running the company for 20 years. I don't know. Comcast has always looked at big deals. And I do think, you know, they're putting kind of a financial and a lot of an operation steward in place, not a kind of core entertainment person. It also means they don't have to pick between the various people. But you have to imagine that at a certain point, you know, Donna Langley is sitting there and going, well, maybe I I want that job. Yeah. And if the goal was to actually grow the company and really turned it into a powerhouse in media, you put the experienced film and now television executive in charge of it.
36:08Matt Belloni:You don't put the deal guy in charge of it unless your goal is deals. Well, yeah. I mean, the guy who's now running Comcast, Brian Roberts stepping down, the guy running Comcast, he's a deal guy as well. Yeah. Yeah. Michael Angelakis. Yeah. He's the one that did the original deal to buy NBC Universal. Well, with with Steve Burke. sure but yeah it just feels like this company is now going to be an m &a story whereas before it was a media hollywood story the comcast story for the last few years has been a or many years has been a cable and internet story not a hollywood story but it's definitely the case now that deals are going to hang over everything this company does for the next couple of years like it happened with warner brothers discovery as soon as they talked about splitting things up or really like it's been happening with Warner Brothers Discovery for 10 years.
36:56Matt Belloni:Right. I know. And the question is, will they even get to the split? Which I'm skeptical. I think if Netflix is really serious about NBC Universal, they'll do it now rather than wait a couple years for tax benefits. But we'll see. Alright, any other winners or losers here? I had Bill Ackman as a loser for woofing. The private equity guy. Hedge fund guy who kind of just agitated for change at universal music group partial maybe as part of trying to help his own company and it just like universal did a couple of things to make him happy um selling some of the spotify stakes and buybacks but for the most part big whiff didn't get a deal done i mean i i would have brought it up earlier but i feel like we've talked about it a lot obvious winners the you know curry part um kane parsons and curry barker the the directors of backrooms and obsession kind of the, the two horror movies of the year so far.
37:53Yeah.
37:53Matt Belloni:Do you think that the entire horror landscape is a winner this first half of the year? I think so. Isn't it always a winner? No, we were talking last year about oversaturation and Blum came on the show and talked about Megan to original movies, original horror wasn't working and yeah. Okay. Horror has had a very good year. Yeah. And it's had this kind of original comeback in the sense that, you know, the feeling was that it was going to be tougher and tougher to open original horror and that everyone needed to do branded. And now we've got two big horror hits. Obsession just got to 400 million.
38:29Matt Belloni:Obsession is like going to wipe the floor with the Spielberg movie. This is a dumb question because I should know this. It's got to be the biggest movie Focus has ever released, right? Have they ever had one of those like random movies that actually got to, you know, 600 million? Yeah, it's Focus's biggest movie ever, according to The Hollywood Reporter. Okay, so maybe we have Jason Kajowski, the head of Focus, as a winner for the year. Peter. It's Peter. So maybe we have Peter Kajowski, the head of Focus, for a winner of the first half of the year. That's a pretty good one. Justice for Cujo. Justice for Cujo.
39:05Matt Belloni:I know. Because I was making fun of, they had a lot of bombs last couple years. Although they did well with Nosferatu. to like the elevated horror seems to be their thing. It was the biggest movie in the history of focus when it crossed 200 million after like two weekends. So it's doubled the biggest movie focus has ever released. I have a bunch of other winners actually that I'm happy to run through. Well, my other winner was Ryan Gosling. Yeah. Because project Hail Mary, not just a massive hit, but a massive hit that we can legitimately hang on him. He's been a star now for 20 years. he's never had a movie that you could say that is a Ryan Gosling vehicle that people showed up for that is a massive hit he's either done IP with Blade Runner and Barbie or he's done these kind of like ensemble movies or two handers like La La Land or what was the Emma Stone one?
40:00Matt Belloni:Crazy Stupid Love Crazy Stupid Love like he's been a star for a long time but this is all him and he's going to get an Oscar nomination like I would say that is a as close to a shoe in as possible and coming off of one or two movies that hadn't done as well as people wanted this reasserted his primacy as a as a star who can get movies made almost on his own exactly I also think that's got to be a win for Courtney Valenti the head of the movie division at Amazon because Amazon had really never had a big hit movie Yeah. Andy Jassy was tweeting about the home video release on this past weekend. I although Courtney Valenti takes a hit for the artificial debacle, the Sam Altman movie there.
40:44But although I think that that decision was certainly not her decision, but she it will hurt her with filmmakers.
40:53Matt Belloni:And yes, it's not going to be great for her next time a piece of edgy material comes through her door. A sneaky winner, RJ Cipriani, the degenerate gambler who brought down Jeff Schell, the head of Paramount, the president of Paramount, through his claims. He wanted his wife's reality show to get greenlit. And he then got the, you know, number two at the company fired over his claims. I refuse to hail that guy a winner. Sorry. I trust me. I'm holding my nose right now but he also is probably getting a settlement I don't know who's paying that settlement but probably has something to do with the insurance policy of Patty Glazer, Shell and Cipriani's mutual lawyer but don't know that for a fact Alright, any other winners?
41:42Matt Belloni:The only other one I had was a couple of sports media ones I mean, Jim Dolan, reviled Nick's owner who finally gets his win and Nick's fans will and the Spears doing well Also, anyone involved in this World Cup because of how well the ratings are doing. So the Eric Shanks at Fox Sports, the Telemundo people, they're winners. The Telemundo people, I think, especially because of how big those numbers are. And, you know, those numbers are going to flow to Peacock. I think we're going to see a big spike in Peacock subs this next quarter because of the World Cup. Now, the churn rate is probably going to be gigantic after that.
42:18Matt Belloni:But if you, you know, Peacock says they're almost profitable, it would be amazing if Peacock announced we're profitable and we had a, you know, 5 million subscriber spike. And by the way, we're never announcing subscriber numbers again. Yeah. Alright, any other sneaky losers? I mean, only some obvious ones that I don't feel like we need to relinate a game. Oh, like who? I mean, I feel like this has not been a good start to the year for Alex Cooper with podcasting and a lot of the reporting that's been done around her. Maggie Gyllenhaal for The Bride, although she did get another movie at Warner's Jonah Hill had his movie bumped from the summer, cut off we could also mention Casey Wasserman forced to sell his company after the revelations of his Epstein emails that were 20 years ago 20 years ago and still coming back to haunt him still no word on who's buying that company I think we're going to get some news in a couple days or weeks on that pretty eventful first half of the year year.
43:23Matt Belloni:I think we're going to see a lot more coming the second half. Lucas, thank you for your assessment. Thanks, Matt. All right. That's the show for today. No call sheet. I want to thank my guests, Lucas Shaw, producer Craig Horbeck, our editors, John Jones and Jesse Lopez. And I want to thank you. We'll see you a couple more times this week.
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From the publisher
Matt is joined by Bloomberg’s Lucas Shaw to select their winners and losers in the entertainment industry so far this year, from actors with surprise hits, studio heads with embarrassing flops, CEOs of struggling companies, and producers that made huge swings that paid off.
Host: Matt Belloni
Guest: Lucas Shaw
Producers: Craig Horlbeck, Jessie Lopez, and Jon Jones
Theme Song: Devon Renaldo
This episode is brought to you by Accenture. https://Accenture.com/Spotify
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