Tom Cruise and the New Age of Celebrity Profiles

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0:45Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tremphaya today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Tremfiaradio.com. Every game day you show up for your team. Now it's your time. We go V! We go V! Ask your prescriber about WeGoV, semaglutide injection 2.4 milligrams, a GLP-1. Call 1-833-4WEGOV or visit wegove.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about Wegove. Why wait? We. Go. V. It is Friday, September 18th. Those of us who follow the entertainment media closely noticed something pretty monumental this week.

1:43Tom Cruise did a real interview. Not a press line where every junketer gets one fluff question with his publicist hovering or five minutes pretending to be a human claw machine with Jimmy Fallon. This was an actual sit-down interview with GQ, plus another alongside Alejandro Iñárritu, director of his new movie, plus a traditional print magazine photo shoot with video. Hardly groundbreaking, there were clearly some strict ground rules, not one mention of the S-word, Scientology, and a long way from the heyday of celebrity journalism, where very famous people routinely granted tons of access so journalists could write thoughtful profiles.

2:19But this was noteworthy because Cruise hasn't done a real magazine cover story in about a decade in this country, mainly because he hasn't had to. We know why. He's got his own social channels to speak directly to his fans. He doesn't want to answer personal questions. And he's been making pre-branded Mission Impossible movies or Top Gun for the past decade. But now he's got a movie that isn't very known, so Cruise knows he's really got to sell it. Got me thinking about the state of high-end celebrity journalism these days. The prestige outlets, the magazines mostly, and their relationship to the stars.

2:53It's all changed so much as the power dynamic has inverted, and the traditional press tour has morphed into this carnival of stunts and subway takes and hot wings eating, most of it on video. Vanity Fair couldn't even get a star for its September cover. They went with a fashion designer, Marc Jacobs. So today I've got Zach Barron on the show. He did that interview with Tom Cruise. He's one of the last big celebrity journalists. Zach's title is Senior Special Projects Editor at GQ, where he's worked since 2013. And he does most of the big celebrity cover stories. Everyone from Brad Pitt to Kanye to Conor McGregor to Tim Cook.

3:28He's also got a new interview show called One More Question. We're going to talk about that Cruise interview, machinations behind it, state of access journalism in Hollywood, what celebs want out of the media these days, and a lightning round, who sucks, and the secret to getting someone famous to open up. From the Ring, Earth, and Puck, I'm Matt Bellany, and this is The Town.

3:53Okay, we are here with Zach Barron, who is Senior Special Projects Editor at GQ and prolific celebrity profiler. Welcome, Zach. Matt, thank you so much. All right. I'm interested in this topic because, as you maybe know, I was the editor of The Hollywood Reporter. We did a lot of celebrity profiles. We did 40 covers a year, most of them celebrities. And the celebrity profile became the bane of my existence. The negotiations, the access, getting stuff into the story that was interesting, placating the publicist and the team, making sure everyone's happy where you get what you want, they get what they want, the photos look good, all of it.

4:40So when I saw your Tom Cruise interview, I said, oh, my God, this must have taken a few years off of the lives of everyone involved in this. So give us the backstory on what it took to get Tom Cruise to do his first magazine cover story in a decade or so. I honestly wish that the answer to this were more interesting. it really was as simple as us asking and him saying yes which don't get me wrong no but that's the start yes yes yes so he says yes and then it's but dot dot dot not really and I'm not like spinning or lying when I say that you know he and I have like the tiniest bit of history you know I wrote a piece about Mission Impossible last year spent a lot of time with Christopher McQuarrie and ultimately ended up like emailing with Tom about that, which, you know, is not like we weren't like, we didn't become brothers.

5:40And I did it again with Glenn Powell. So I think he had at least a vague idea of who I was. Sure. And then, you know, there's a person who works for GQ, Dana Matthews, our longtime sort of global entertainment director. Yeah, most of the big magazines have the celebrity wrangler, the person who is involved in the booking and scouting and at the festivals and stuff. Yes. And Dana is like, is certified. in her world and very good at what she does. But this is one of those, and you ran a magazine, you know how it goes. Everyone's sitting around and be like, wouldn't this be cool? And then sometimes you don't even send the offer because you're like, it's just an auto no.

6:18And in this case, we were like, eh, maybe send the offer. And then the answer was just yes. Okay, but then the yes is ground rules. What are the ground rules for Tom Cruise? Obviously, no Scientology talk, no Surrey Cruise, no personal life, those I imagine were explicitly told to you, we're not going there. No, completely incorrect. I've never done... Then why did you ask about Scientology? One thing I do when I prepare for these things, I had the same thought you did initially. When I prepare for these things, I go back and I look at everything that's ever been written about a subject. And he hasn't done magazine journalism in a long time, but the last time he did it, he did a lot of it, And it turns out he's talked about that subject, the subject of Scientology, quite a bit.

7:09And the answer was sort of always very similar. It was what it was. And it was 2026. I didn't have a ton of time with him. I think I understand completely if there are people who wanted to kind of see the car crash version, the Matt Lauer version, the jump on the couch version. Well, no, but it's the most interesting thing about him. He is a high ranking. I don't think I agree. He is a high-ranking member of a church that has been accused of some pretty awful behavior and is considered by many countries to be a cult. And it's also had an evolution since the last time he did press. So I am endlessly fascinated by Scientology.

7:51I think a lot of people are. And it also caused the breakup of his marriage, by most accounts, two marriages. You know, he doesn't, he has the whole thing with the kids he has with Nicole Kidman, where they don't talk to her. I know that stuff to me. So you just decided that his personal life was not as interesting as the movie that's coming out. Well, I mean, we talk about a lot more than Digger. But yeah, I think I was interested in the sort of reclusive movie star. I was interested in the guy who's kind of like, I've sacrificed everything at the altar of movies and this industry is me. I was interested, you know, this isn't like, you know, brain surgery, but I was interested in his like relationship with his phone.

8:33I just think I think there's actually a lot of curiosity about Tom Cruise that that is not about this subject. And that's genuine. Again, that's not me like lying or spinning. I think that was the conversation I wanted to have. Maybe I'm more cynical, but I believe he has adopted this mantle of the mayor of movies and I live my life for movies to sidestep any questions about his personal life and to deflect, essentially. He's a man of the world now. He doesn't live anywhere. He lives everywhere. He doesn't do anything. He does everything. He's sort of this deity of Hollywood. And I'm interested in sort of breaking that down a little.

9:18I think I was actually interested in the deity of Hollywood part. I think that's fascinating. I don't know if there's like a modern equivalent. I don't know if there's like a historical equivalent. I'm actually fascinated by that. Well, so I know the writers don't choose the cover images or even really manage the photo shoots but the the limitations on i mean do they does cruise get creative control over these shoots do they get to see the article in advance no obviously no right no no i mean like i i don't know how many places are left like this and this is no shots to competition but well there aren't many i mean that's part of what we're going to talk about is that you are among you're like a late night host you're like a last and dying breed yeah that's not good news for me to be a late night host.

10:03Well, it is if you're Kimmel or Fallon, you got, you know, there's nobody coming up behind you. If you're comparing me to Jimmy Kimmel, I will take that. Maybe less so Fallon. How has your job changed in the past 10 years? Besides completely. Like the power structure has completely flipped where the stars don't need you. They have their own channels. If Tom Cruise wants to talk to his fans, he does it on his own channels. There has to be a reason to do a celebrity profile. And you are fortunate in that you work at a brand that does have cachet and meaning and can position a star a certain way and does make sense for some stars to do before their campaign kicks off to sort of frame the campaign, the publicist schools call it.

10:52But I imagine it's just become so much harder to get the access you need in order to do something interesting. I agree and disagree, if that makes sense. I will not sit here and say it has not changed. You know, I can even sort of remember that era of when I started in this business, which was already kind of like late in the game relative to some of the stuff we're talking about. And it really was like, if GQ wants you to show up in like Dubai on a Tuesday and then spend three weeks, like in the desert for the shoot or the reporting, like more often than not, they were like, they would kind of be like, yeah, we don't like it.

11:31But yes, because like you said, this was the only channel for someone like them to kind of reach their public or set their narrative or whatever. And you do a GQ cover, all of a sudden you got a, you know, Balenciaga campaign or something. Yes. You got tangible benefits from being positioned by a men's magazine that is also a fashion tastemaker. One thousand percent. And that's still true today. I don't want to dismiss it. Yeah. But there's a lot of other ways to do that now. And I think it trickles down to these writers. First of all, there are fewer opportunities. There's fewer magazines. There's fewer outlets that are doing this.

12:06And there are other options. And that means that you have to compete with those other options. And the access is usually the first thing that goes. And that's like where I would actually push back a little bit. Okay. Because I think it was like two years ago that I spent three years on and off with Kevin Costner reporting a GQ cover. Oh my God, really? Of a generation of star for whom that is a more familiar ritual. And I think it was like four or five years ago that I was at Francis Ford Coppola's house for many days. What did Kevin Costner say privately about Taylor Sheridan? what you really want to know is what taylor sharon and said privately about kevin costner but we're not going to get into that okay yeah we'll talk afterwards i can imagine i can imagine uh you had you would have had to bleep it although you don't really bleep stuff but okay so continue so the access issue what a lot of times what you're trying to seek is like where do we meet and sometimes you find the meeting place and you do the cover and sometimes it's kind of like yeah we can't your demands are too much meaning ours the magazines yeah Or they are like, we'll do it, but only with, you know, lunch and a phone call.

13:23And we're like, thank you, but no thank you. And so there are people now who maybe we would have been able to compel to do stuff. But I'm like, I don't really, even though I was kind of there for that, I don't really fetishize the version where the magazine had all the power and the subject had none. I kind of like the game that we play now where it's a little bit like you got to get out there and earn it like everybody else. And how much do you as the writer participate in that? or do you leave it to the editors in New York? I have very specific ideas about what I want to do with people. The modern mutation of that is very funny where it's like, okay, you're writing about this person.

13:56You guys should do something together. We don't want you to observe him to direct or act, but maybe you guys want to play paintball together. Or do you want to go skydiving? And you're just like, no, why would I ever want to do that? I'm like, can we go pick up dry cleaning? Can we just do something they would be doing anyway? So I inevitably get involved in those conversations because I have very strong opinions about what is a good illuminating thing for us to be doing together and what is a kind of fake, not very helpful thing to be doing together. Well, it's all fake. Let's be honest. Any staged circumstance is fake.

14:29You want to make it as less fake as possible. So like fly fishing with Jake Tapper, we would say that. Is that real or fake? Yeah, like Gavin Newsom going fly fishing. Just a normal thing that a white wine liberal governor of California does. Just two men fly fishing, you know? Super natural out there. But you've seen that. But listen, from the publicist standpoint, you want the stunt because the story becomes about the stunt. Correct. The entire goal of these publicists now is to avoid being aggregated for the wrong reason. And that's how social media and the internet has completely changed this because you don't want any quotes that could potentially be problematic to come back and bite you in the ass.

15:13and from a celebrity profiler point of view, that sucks because your whole goal is to illuminate this person in a way that will make them interesting and have that travel on the internet. I'm not saying gotcha moments. I'm not saying they inadvertently trash their co-star. I'm saying you want to be interesting. Yes. I'm trying to figure out how to put this in a way that doesn't sound super egotistical and I might just go the full ego route. Do it. No one cares. Everyone on this show has a huge ego. 90 % of our guests. That is the journalist's problem. It is not the subject's problem. It is not the publicist's problem.

15:52The art of this game is going and doing that no matter what. And I don't like it when I hear fellow journalists complain about this, being like, the game has changed and they wouldn't give me anything. And the publicist engineered this situation so that nothing could happen. I'm like, those are all you failures. In this interaction, there is only one professional, and that is me. They are like an actor, an athlete, whatever, director, is not a professional interview subject. They are not making a magazine. That is not their problem. It is fully my problem. And it is my job when I go out to make something happen.

16:31But don't you feel it's become harder because they are so media trained and so afraid of getting aggregated? Yeah, but like what's difficult? Like, who cares about hard? Like, hard is great. Oh, I know. I'm just saying, like, you go back and look at magazine profiles in the 80s and 90s, sort of the heyday of this genre, and it's wild. Like, people are popping off. They're going after co-stars. They're taking you out drinking. They're doing stuff that would never happen today because it's not on brand for the selling of the movie. and you're saying that that's your job to make them interesting.

17:11Totally correct. And one thing I love about this job is like I show up and make it happen anyway. And the secondary interviews where you get quotes from other people about the subject, they've all been sanitized by five different publicists. I read a profile of Mike Myers from Vanity Fair in the early 2000s and it's crazy because the secondary interviews are people trashing him, talking about how difficult he is and how much he's cost people money on the set. And the whole thing, it's just, I read it and I was like, this would never happen today. Yeah, I imagine people request you now. Again, ego here.

17:52I think in part because it's like, all right, can we get the guy who did that other thing that was a thing, you know? Yeah, good enough for Clooney, good enough for me. I think that I hopefully live in that place where it is a little scary, but they know that these things generally make noise when they happen and kind of want that feeling, that vibe. I had a nice experience where someone was like, I read your Scorsese piece. I kind of wanted that. Oh, that's good. Yeah. That is what I want. Right. With me, it was the opposite. Anyone but him. I mean, look. You're not supposed to be able to select your writer.

18:30Most outlets will say no, but if you're talking to a publicist and it's someone you really want and they say who are you thinking about for the writer and you mention a name and they don't like it that person i'll admit would likely be off the list and you and i also both know that what you just said about yourself as a badge of honor in this industry is a is much respected but that's why i'm hosting a podcast and doing a newsletter not doing celebrity profiles speaking of like the genre and how it works is that the norm when I started, I don't know if it was like this for you, but like at a place like GQ was still very combative because I think people thought this is an inherently frivolous job.

19:10And so, you know, and at the time, and this isn't a shot at Jim Nelson who was editing GQ when I started, but he came from Harper's, you know, very serious journalism. I think there was this element of two men enter the ring and one man leaves, you know, and like, kind of your conversation with the editor afterwards would be like, well, did they win or did you win? Yeah. You know? Totally. And it would lead to like, I can think of so many like very intense interactions I had with people basically because I was trying to prove to like someone back at the office that I had like, I had triumphed over them.

19:45Totally. I mean, they're getting something out of you. You want to get something out of them. And it's a back and forth a negotiation and a battle. I remember when I was writing for Esquire in the 2000s and David Granger, the editor he didn't like celebrity profiles he knew they had to do them and he would make his top writers do them, like guys like Tom Genote and Tom Chiarella and Mike Sager they would have to do these celebrity profiles so they took it as a challenge, how do I turn this into either a piece of creative writing that I could be proud of Or something that is like a boxing match where I'm going after this person or I'm having a flirty moment with Halle Berry or whatever.

20:31I think those people were wrong and I think that was kind of fucked up. Oh, really? I think the sort of creative writing, I'm Ernest Hemingway version of that is actually like, yes, this person's a celebrity. Yes, they are promoting something. they still don't really deserve to be like a prop in your like attempt to be f scott fitzgerald you know like like sometimes i imagine them reading this and being like like why are you writing about like what the rocks looked like like as we were gazing into like you're just trying to get some good sentences off and this person is just there as a prop in your story i actually think that's a messed up way to do this job and for the record not all those guys did that But I remember reading some great Esquire profiles of that era where you're right.

21:20The star would be the inspiration moment for 3 ,500 words that are largely about something else. Yes. And no one wants to read that now. And I also think it's just unkind to any interview subject. It's like you're asking for their time and their energy. That doesn't mean that it's like, hey, we're going to make this a smooth, frictionless experience for you. And you're going to be comfortable the whole time. But it probably ought to be that you pay attention to them primarily and they be the subject of the piece that you write. So that would be point one. And then on the combative stuff, I think for me, one of the things I find is I'm asking a lot of the same questions I was asking 10 or 15 years ago, but I am asking them in a nicer way.

22:01And I honestly think that is less about, you know, part of it is just like, I was just kind of like, I think I generally like lead with empathy and want to know how people's brains work. And doing that sort of boxing match thing is not always conducive to finding out how someone thinks about the world. And part of that is like that norm was just, that norm in some ways was actually crazy to just show up to somebody who's minding their own business and be like, hey, fuck you, let's go. You know, like that's actually like if someone did that to you at a cocktail party, you'd be like, what is going on?

22:31You know, yeah, as coddled or or or rich or whatever as they are, they are still humans in this world. And journalism rules apply. But some of this extra stuff that used to get brought to this, I actually think is crazy.

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23:29It's as easy to apply as shampoo. Plus, it's vegan and cruelty-free. 10 minutes. Sensational color. Sensational price. With those savings, your next girl's night is basically free. Find your perfect match at Walmart.com or at a store near you. Video. You're even doing video now. is video going to replace the celebrity profile i mean in some ways it already has it is a great question i think i think cruise is actually a great example of the strengths of this medium you know um yes i am i am doing video right now one more question on the gq youtube channel that's the name of my show thank you very much no but uh i think you know like look adam bydawi took over the magazine this year he and i had conversations about this even before he was in chief just about like this seems to be where this is going i am related to someone who works at the ringer i guess we should say that you are the husband of amanda dobbins who yeah which is why matt's being so nice to me can't you tell um i uh if it is going that way and i do think i do think it might be in certain respects i think there's still room for that like super long super accessy written piece i wrote a piece about the odyssey this summer that that you know where i I talked to all the people involved and it's sort of a making of piece and it's sort of like a here's where, you know, where Damon and Holland and Pattinson are in their life.

24:53And that just really felt like it still should have been a print piece. And I think it worked in that way. And the photos were nice. Yeah, and the photos were cool. I think something like the Tom Cruise interview shows like why, in addition to the fact that the audience seems to be increasingly there, like there's a reason why you and I are actually like on video right now. It's like even no matter what you do, it just seems like where the readers used to be for print journalism, they now just seem to be by default either listening or trying to watch this stuff. So that is obviously one reason is that these places are trying to adapt and find where the audience is.

25:28And then I do think the second thing, and I actually really like this as a longtime profiler is, I would always be having interactions where sometimes the way they answered a question was more interesting than the sort of written version of their answer. whether it was like the pause or the voice crack or the stumble or the evasion. And, you know, obviously like part of the art of writing, you know, magazine journalism is conveying to a reader that that happened. But one thing I actually really like about this new era of doing certain interviews on camera is people can see it. And I think people can learn so much from the how the interaction goes, the nonverbal cues, all that stuff I think is actually fascinating.

26:14I always knew that stuff was there, but now I'm finding that the audience is like, oh, that moment where they kind of looked like this or said that or they raised their voice or they laughed. And I'm like, yeah, those were always happening. And then it was like very hard to communicate to someone that that was happening. Now it's quite easy. And I think that's very cool about the medium. Zach, what's the biggest difference to you between editing a written interview and a video interview? The expectation of a written piece is still, I think, is very polished. You know, you're, you're really like every line, every sentence, every, the structure of it.

26:49And I actually think, and I'm trying to find this line now with some of the stuff we're doing on camera is people's norm is actually like a three hour Joe Rogan podcast. Now I think the thing that I am doing is more polished than that, where it's like, Oh, you know, Oh, you just talked to Taylor Sheridan about horses for 25 minutes. Like that will never appear on a thing that I do. Curation. I'll be honest. Like it's just different, different entry points. I read the Cruise interview because I appreciate the curation and editing where you make the most interesting parts available to me. But some people just want to turn on Tom Cruise and look at him for 20 minutes.

27:26And you and I are of a certain generation where, yes, I am always like, where could I read this? But I think younger people don't feel that way. All right. We're going to do a lightning round. I'm ready. So I'm going to ask rapid fire questions. you answer to the best of your ability and then we move on. Okay. No follow-ups. Okay. Okay. And this is based on your, you know, many, many years of interviewing celebrities. I'm terrified right now. Let's go. Best hang. Best hang. Jesse Plemons, amazing guy. Very small thing. Stuck with me forever. I was like, how is that guy so nice? Mahershala Ali, just the decency of that human being.