Charlie Sheen’s Craziest Hollywood Stories and Why He Refuses to Believe the Official Story of 9/11

8:32Charlie Sheen:Well, can I actually, can I just go back just a sec? One of the things I loved about that interview was the hostility that you so clearly had. I mean, it just was obvious toward like the whole class of people who profit from the creatives in Los Angeles. Right. And, you know, the agents, the managers, just that whole constellation of people. and you clearly were at war with them. And yet the way the system is set up, even now you were telling me at breakfast, like it's necessary. Like you can't really work without participating in that system. So how did you fix those relationships?

9:07Tucker Carlson:Time, just over time. And just, you know, working on myself. And yeah, and, you know, those relationships can only be fixed if both parties are still in the game. Yeah. You know, so I think that helped. But the stuff I talk about in the book about that time was that it was that tour that really was ill-advised, you know, and that was not my idea. And I'm still not sure how I allowed myself to get talked into it, you know.

9:50Charlie Sheen:Yeah.

9:50Tucker Carlson:Everybody blames Mark Berg, but it really wasn't Mark's brainchild. It was Live Nation. They watched all of that, and through their filter, they saw that as taking that on the road.

10:07Charlie Sheen:Yeah, we got to get this man into expensive hotel rooms.

10:10Tucker Carlson:Exactly. Yes, in front of a crowd full of paying customers.

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12:16Tucker Carlson:Tap to learn more about elevating your influence, your credibility and your career with Kelly's program.

12:22Charlie Sheen:Learn more at kelly.iu.edu. It's not even about the performances, but the experience of being on the road, which anyone who's ever done it can tell you. I mean, there's a reason so many performers wind up with these really tragic personal lives, which is like being on the road is not good for you at all.

12:40Tucker Carlson:Yeah, no, it was especially really not good for me.

12:45Charlie Sheen:I mean, on a good day, it's not good for a good person. Yeah. But an addicted person is just going to like, so what happened?

12:51Tucker Carlson:It was 21 cities in like 31 days with no act. With no act. But Jeff Ross did come in and rescue a good portion of it. So that was...

13:05Charlie Sheen:Did they call Jeff like midway through?

13:07Tucker Carlson:They called him like right after the second show. Yeah. I mean, we bombed right out of the gate. So what was that like? It was awful. It was awful.

13:19Charlie Sheen:Did you know that it was bad when it was happening?

13:21Tucker Carlson:Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. No, it was an absolute train wreck. It was complete bed shit. No, it's fine. I'm sorry to laugh at your misfortune. No, I'll take it because there's a thing I talk about in the book that, you know, Hemingway's, you know, to become a man, you know, his list, right? You got to fight a bull. You got to have a son and plant a tree. Yeah. Right. He left out being booed off stage in Detroit on opening night. Yeah, it was, we didn't make it, we didn't make it to the second act. Wow. And then Simon Rex, you know who he is?

14:06Charlie Sheen:No.

14:06Tucker Carlson:He's an actor and he'd done some rapping and he had this one song that I really dug. And so he was going to perform it, you know, and I was getting pelted with stuff like, like not food, but like programs and shoes and whatever anybody could throw. And he was in the wings. And so I started like motioning him out.

14:26Charlie Sheen:Because you're actually on stage. Oh, yeah.

14:28Tucker Carlson:Yeah, and it's turning violent. We are like on the verge of bedlam. And so I wave him out and I switch places with him. I'm done. It's over. And he tried to do his song and they kept, they went harder on him. And then he told me afterwards, he said, dude, you can't, like, you have to. He says, you completely overlooked the fact that you brought a white rapper out on stage in Detroit who wasn't Eminem and expected the crowd to be satisfied. You know?

15:02Charlie Sheen:Wait, but we're skipping over. Yeah, yeah, sorry. The key part, which is what did you do to make the crowd so mad?

15:10Tucker Carlson:Stuck to the script. There was absolute dog shit. This thing that I built back home thinking, yeah, then we'll do this, then we'll do that. And then the girls will come out and just all this stuff that I was imagining would be crowd-pleasing stuff. But they just literally wanted me on stage just screaming those dumb slogans.

15:27Charlie Sheen:They wanted more tiger blood.

15:29Tucker Carlson:Yeah, they wanted, you know, more seven-gram rocks. They wanted more Adonis DNA. And what I, you know, finally explain in the book is that none of that, the biggest irony in this whole thing, none of that stuff was my original material. I didn't cook all that stuff up. No, it came from a phone call from a baseball player like three days before I sat down for the interview. And I think it was delivered as a pep talk.

15:59Charlie Sheen:Like in some dugout?

16:00Tucker Carlson:No. There's a guy named Brian Wilson. He used to pitch for the Giants. They called him the Beard, right? Great ball player, super dude. And I was watching a highlight package of him one night. And I just, I don't know, there was something about his magnetism, his presence, all of it, right? And I told my friend Tony Todd, I said, get him on the phone. I want to speak to that man, right? And the next day I was on the phone with him. And I think it was before the season started. And he just volunteered. He said, hey, it's a pleasure to talk to you, man. And it was already known that, you know, the training left the tracks with my show and the beef with Chuck and all that stuff was already in play.

16:45Tucker Carlson:So he says to me, he says, you know, we're not like other people. We're not. We're different, man. We got, you know, we got tiger blood running through our veins. We got a substrate of Adonis DNA that doesn't allow guys like us to ever lose because we're always winning, right? This is all him giving me this material. So, and he's probably thinking, cool, man, that's going to make him feel better, at least for today. And, you know, maybe he'll, you know, make some progress with this other mess, right? And then the interview comes around and there was something that she did. No part of it was her fault.

17:26Tucker Carlson:I mean, no part of it.

17:26Charlie Sheen:It was the ABC lady.

17:27Tucker Carlson:Yeah, Andrea Canning. And so she made a crack to the two gals that I had shacked up with, right? And then she tried to continue like onto her next question. And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You owe them an apology. And she was like, okay, my bad. I apologize. I'm sorry. I'm like, thank you. And so then she tried to continue the interview and I started grinding on it. I wouldn't let it go. Even though she apologized and we should have just moved past it and we didn't. And so that's when the whole thing just came out. I suddenly felt like I'm going to be delivering another interview and checking every box that they want.

18:11Tucker Carlson:And I'm supposed to show remorse and I'm supposed to show, you know, all of those, all those things that, you know, that you sit down and do that interview and deliver, you know.

18:24Charlie Sheen:Which, I mean, that was the point of the interview, right? That was set up because you have to go through this ritual.

18:29Tucker Carlson:Right. Yeah. I think that's what they were expecting. And I think I might've agreed to it on those terms. And yeah, I flipped the script sort of midway through. And then I had all of his material and it was just kind of like, you know, it was there, man. It was on standby. It was kind of on a loop, just looking for the right venue. And there it was. And it all just flew out. And that's what started that whole thing. Did he call you?

19:02Charlie Sheen:Did he see it, the ball player?

19:04Tucker Carlson:Oh, yeah. He was probably like, oh, my God, what have I done? What have I done? I gave my best stuff to the wrong guy or the most right guy ever, you know?

19:14Charlie Sheen:So I felt maybe I'm shallow. I felt you created a kind of art. I felt like that was like a... Thank you. I did think that. No, that's cool. I do think that. That's awesome. Thank you. And most lines are other people's lines. So there's no shame in that.

19:26Tucker Carlson:Thank you.

19:27Charlie Sheen:Okay, good.

19:27Tucker Carlson:Good. Yeah. Yeah. No. Oh, and for years I didn't want, I didn't think it was fair to, to trying to lasso him into the craziness. So I always kept it, kept him out of it. I kept Brian out of it, which I felt was the right thing to do. and then and then over time i did start admitting that yeah that that wasn't my material it didn't come up with any of that stuff originally um and then with the book and this tour i've just said

19:59Charlie Sheen:yeah it was it was it was brian was that guy you still talk to him um yeah i spoke to him

20:06Tucker Carlson:about a year ago because we asked him uh to be in the dock and he said he was going to do it and They need to change. He just changed his mind, didn't want to. And that's fine. That's fine. He doesn't have to revisit it. I kind of do. And, well, I was telling stories about it in the doc where I was already anticipating them cutting to him for his side of it. So it would have made sense if he was there. But, no, I don't. There's no love lost at all about that, you know.

20:42Charlie Sheen:Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I'm, again, totally pro-sobriety. On the other hand, it's just nice to see vigor in a man, in a world filled with men without vigor that, you know, I'll take a little craziness.

20:54Tucker Carlson:I just wrote that word to somebody yesterday. Which? Vigor. Yeah, it's much needed. Yeah, no, somebody wrote something to me. Hey, this thing, or did you guys do this? Something, something. thing. And I was sitting there for like four minutes and I finally wrote back with vigor. Yeah, exactly. So.

21:15Charlie Sheen:Yeah, we need a little Teddy Roosevelt. Right. And I saw a little cocaine infused Teddy Roosevelt in that interview. So you go on tour, Live Nation decides, hey, we can profit from this guy. Sure. Yeah. Not to impute low motives to Live Nation.

21:29Tucker Carlson:No, of course not. No, no. Yes. And you bomb

21:34Charlie Sheen:the first two nights. So then they call Jeff Ross. the Toastmaster General to come in and save, which is not stupid, actually. No. Did he do a good job? He did a great job. Yeah, of course. He did a great job.

21:42Tucker Carlson:But what surprised me is that the set that he rolled out with, he showed up in a hazmat suit, like he was there to clean up a, you know, the radioactive spill, right? Which he kind of was. And the crowd loved it. And his jokes were terrific. And I'm like, wow. And then I just figured he would be, then we get to the next city and he would come out with a different set. And he didn't. He just stuck to the ones he had assembled and built and they already killed. And he figured that the next city hadn't heard them yet, but everything was in the paper. Because there's no internet or something. Yeah.

22:24Tucker Carlson:And he just stayed with it, you know. And then one night he couldn't make it. So, do you know who Chuck Zito is?

22:32Charlie Sheen:Yeah

22:32Tucker Carlson:Yeah, so Chuck was helping me with security during the tour And I said, Chuck, I think it's going to be funny If you come out and just take the podium and say Jeff Ross couldn't make it tonight So I have his material And I'm just going to go through them one by one And he did And it bombed It bombed But it bombed

22:53Charlie Sheen:Your security guy read Jeff Ross' set?

22:56Tucker Carlson:Yeah, yeah, wearing his leather jacket and the whole thing, not Jeff's.

23:00Charlie Sheen:It's like so meta, actually. I would have enjoyed that.

23:03Tucker Carlson:Yeah, I did enjoy it. It's kind of high concept. I was on stage. For a stadium show. Racking up, yeah. Yeah, so Chuck Zito filled in for Jeff Ross.

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25:51Tucker Carlson:um no they were like huh okay we we really have to sit down and figure out if there's any way like what is going to cost you to issue like all of those refunds they were yeah refunds yeah actually the second it was really just the first night i was wrong about that because something did happen between detroit and chicago um something usually does yeah right between those two cities yeah Yes, it's happening. Especially on a tour bus, right? No, so I said, okay, everything that we had planned, just leave it right where it belongs, in the toilet where it wound up, in the sewer, in the gutter. We are scrapping everything.

26:31Tucker Carlson:And they said, okay, all right, good start. Good, you know, okay, cool, Sheen, you're reading the room, man. Was it the shoes? Yeah, partly it was that last high heel. And I said, I think I have a fix. They were like, well, do you want to share it? I'm like, no, no, I don't have it yet. So I'm going to ride the tour bus. I'm not going to fly. I'm going to take the bus from Detroit to Chicago by myself. And I just need a notepad and two pens. And I did. And I just rewrote the entire show alone on that trip, knowing that it was do or die. Because I knew that tour was also, it was the child support tour.

27:21Charlie Sheen:Oh, yeah.

27:22Tucker Carlson:Yeah, because Warners was hanging on to all my dough. They were keeping my dough hostage because I'd violated all the morals clauses and I acted in bad faith and therefore they didn't have to pay me what they owed me, you know? And I was like, well, hold on a minute. Anyway, they ultimately had to, But I had to assume to get my scratch. Yeah. Yeah. How about that? So I couldn't. I'm not surprised. So anyway, so yeah. So I did go on that thing. There were some noble motives behind it or motivation rather. Just to have some dough to, you know, keep everybody housed and fed.

28:02Charlie Sheen:Right. Because you have a big tribe.

28:04Tucker Carlson:Yeah. Yeah. Big enough. and so. Bigger than average. Bigger than average. Yeah.

28:10Charlie Sheen:I mean that as a compliment.

28:11Tucker Carlson:Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. And, and, and plenty of room at any, any, any stage of it, at any, any, any table that we sit down at, there's plenty of room for everyone, you know? Beautiful. Thank you. And so we get to Chicago and so I go there in the morning and they're like, what are you doing here? The talent never shows up until five minutes for, you know, sound check or whatever. And I said, I just need to see, I need to see the theater. I need to feel the building. And I'm like, okay. Where were you playing in Chicago?

28:39Charlie Sheen:Do you remember?

28:40Tucker Carlson:I couldn't tell you at gunpoint.

28:43Charlie Sheen:Chicago theater probably. Yeah.

28:45Tucker Carlson:Yeah. It was nice. It was vintage. It felt dumb. Yeah, yeah.

28:48Charlie Sheen:That's a bit. Yeah.

28:51Tucker Carlson:So, so I basically decided that it was just going to be like with a moderator. Right? Smart. Yeah. Yeah. And I said, I just need two chairs, you know, just that they, you know, facing each other just behind the curtain. And I wrote this letter and I'm sure it's on video somewhere. And I wrote and I wanted the chairs just behind the curtain so I could come. I could walk out first, deliver this this love letter to Chicago about, you know, what happened in Detroit. And the whole thing was a mislead about, you know, I've fought in the jungles of Vietnam. I've been through the hellscape of, you know, the volcanoes of, you know, just this whole like mythological, just this thing where it felt like.

29:49Tucker Carlson:And then the whole thing kind of ends with, and that was just opening night in Detroit. And I said, and then the whole place went nuts. And I knew I had them. And then the curtains parted and we sat in the chairs and we just talked about everything. We just talked about it. How did it play? It played great. And then everybody, you know, all the Live Nation guys and, you know, the agent types and everybody was around. They were like, you rescued the show, man. Good for you. You rescued the show. Well, sincerely, good for you. No, it was cool. And so we went with that and then that kind of petered out because it wasn't like at the energy level that everyone was anticipating.

30:28Charlie Sheen:Because you weren't pivoting against disaster.

30:31Tucker Carlson:Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And then a little bit later, that's when they brought Jeff in. Because we're like, okay, we got our bearings. Let's ramp it up, but just in a sensible way, I think.

30:49Charlie Sheen:What did you think of working live like that?

30:52Tucker Carlson:um it was exciting yeah it was exciting yeah and i i made the decision to um start entering from the back of the auditorium you know like they're not from backstage but from the audience side like from like the exit door yeah yeah just um i don't know i don't know why it just um it was just cool just everybody was expecting me there. And I would run up the aisle, high-fiving everyone, you know, just to break it up, just to keep it. I don't know. Yeah. No, it was a trip. I've seen the shows that you've done.

31:27Charlie Sheen:Yeah, no, I love it. I hope that that whole form continues, whether I can participate in it or not. Because I think it's important for people to be physically present with each other.

31:36Tucker Carlson:You seem really comfortable in those situations. Well, I like people. Yeah, but you...

31:40Charlie Sheen:I like to smell people. Yeah, I don't like... That's my main problem with the internet is I think it just disaggregates people from actual people. Sure. There's no, it was like, there's a person there, but everyone's sort of reduced to his dumbest opinion or most provocative opinion. I'm not against those obviously, but I think that's not the whole story about people. And it's just, I just like people. It's good to be with people. I like physical contact. I hate the COVID era because of its lack of physical contact. I just, I mean, these are not like groundbreaking ideas, but no, I just like being with people.

32:13Charlie Sheen:Sure. Yeah, for sure. what's the point otherwise? Yeah. So how much were you partying on tour?

32:20Tucker Carlson:Not. Really? Yeah, see that, and I covered that in the book also, is that they sent the head of the network, Les Moonves, to my house with the Warner Jet, like fueled up and idling on the runway to take me to rehab.

32:36Charlie Sheen:Like right after the ABC interview?

32:38Tucker Carlson:Yes. And I said, I said, I appreciate it. it's also less not lost on me that this is the first time that the Jets ever been made available to me during the whole run of two and a half, right? Was to put me in rehab. That's fine. And I said, but I'm going to do this at home. I'm going to do this at home. And then the look on his face was, man, I felt, he was saddened. He actually felt for me. I could see that. Good for him. Yeah, and it had nothing to do with commerce. And I write that in the book. Good. I also describe him as a good dude and a fucking gangster. No one's yelled at me yet about that.

33:22Because we're supposed to keep him, right, parked in the cornfield.

33:27Charlie Sheen:Yeah, I mean, I think the assumption is in this business, and especially in your part of the business, you know, you got to be a pretty tough character to get to the top, right? Yeah. I don't think non-gangsters run big entertainment organizations. They don't. Right. Or they never have.

33:42Tucker Carlson:They never have. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah.

33:45Charlie Sheen:Not an insult. I'm not judging. Sure. But yeah, no, I think it requires that. So you never went to rehab?

33:54Tucker Carlson:No, I did a rehab at home. What's that? Not a rehab. Not a rehab. A rehab with cocaine? No, there was no dope. There was no drugs. There was no - Yeah, there was girls. There was girls and testosterone cream. That's the one thing I didn't quit. And that was probably the one thing. I probably should have stayed on the Coke and gotten off the cream. Can you imagine like a doctor like recommending that, you know? That's so interesting.

34:23Charlie Sheen:I've never heard that before. So you think the testosterone cream used at 40X recommended doses was worse for you than the cocaine?

34:30Tucker Carlson:Well, yeah, I think it was doing more damage to my psychological state. Interesting. Yeah, because the Coke is kind of predictable. Oh, of course, yeah. You know how you're going to behave in certain situations, yeah. And that other stuff was just like, it was a trip to the outer limits, you know? Really? Yeah, but like the really like kind of the angrier part of the outer limits, like the testier part, the more edgy part. Yeah, it's like the - More than cocaine. Yes.

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36:30Charlie Sheen:She doesn't say much, just breaks the bar in half and hands me a piece. I open my mouth to say whatever a nine-year-old wants to say, and she replies with a low, listen. So we sat there, listening. That was the first time I learned that quiet can feel full. Hershey's, it's your happy place. This episode is brought to you by Redfin. You're listening to a podcast, which means you're probably multitasking, maybe even scrolling home listings on Redfin, saving homes without expecting to get them. But Redfin isn't just built for endless browsing. It's built to help you find and own a home. With agents who close twice as many deals, when you find the one, you've got a real shot at getting it.

37:16Charlie Sheen:Get started at Redfin.com. Own the dream. So did anybody Wow, I'll think about that So I did stop Did anyone ever say to you It's good to get off the narcotics But testosterone cream When slathered in the amounts You're slathering is pretty heavy Did anyone ever say that to you?

37:39Tucker Carlson:Yes But a couple months before that Do you know Nick Cassavetes? He's a director, he's a writer He's an old friend of mine He's the son of John Cassavetes Yeah. Nick directed and wrote The Notebook.

37:52Charlie Sheen:Yes.

37:52Tucker Carlson:Everybody's favorite romantic comedy, right? It's not a romantic comedy. It's a love story. So, sorry, Nick. I called his film a comedy. You might want to cut that. Well, you laughed and cried. Yeah, you laughed and cried. Yeah. So, we were in Palm Springs. And I don't know at what stage in that whole thing, that whole time it was. but he did say, Hey man, I noticed, um, that you, you, you're using like a lot, you know, you're, you're, he, they, they, they recommended like the, you know, the size of a dime and you had like five silver dollars in your hand. Yeah. And he said, you just, um, just think about, think about cutting back a little bit.

38:38Tucker Carlson:And I was like, you got it, man. Thank you. Good advice. I appreciate it. Just ignore, ignore. So, yeah. No, but you mean like in the moment, in that thing, while it was going on, did anybody say?

38:50Charlie Sheen:Yeah.

38:51Tucker Carlson:I didn't really broadcast what I was doing. I don't think people would think to look for that. Exactly.

38:59Charlie Sheen:Testosterone cream. I mean, I didn't even really know that was a thing. But if I had known it was a thing, I wouldn't really think about it. You know, I think like the crack is the problem. Sure. It turned out. So when you, was it hard to stop using the illegal stuff?

39:17Tucker Carlson:Yes and no. I, I, I missed it just physically for like a, like a week, you know, but I wasn't on any, any opiate. So the Coke detox is pretty quick, you know. Um, but it's, um, the other stuff gave me the energy and, and just the different mindset to just to not even think about what my body was feeling.

39:44Charlie Sheen:Yes.

39:44Tucker Carlson:You know? Um, so then, cause you asked like how, how long, yeah. So then that, that, um, but when I came back from the tour is when I, is when I, I went, I went dark. Interesting. Went dark and stayed dark. Yeah.

40:00Charlie Sheen:Usually it's the other way around. I know. It's when people are on the road.

40:04Tucker Carlson:Yeah, no, I just wanted to finish it. I just wanted to honor that commitment. As crazy as that commitment was, I knew there was, there were a lot of, there would have been a lot of consequences I didn't want to deal with had I not done every city, every, you know, every leg of the tour. You've got to do your job. Yeah, yeah.

40:28Charlie Sheen:And you're pretty work-oriented anyway, right? Yeah.

40:31Tucker Carlson:Yeah. I have that gear. Yeah, yeah. Me too.

40:34Charlie Sheen:That's important.

40:35Tucker Carlson:It is. Yeah. But it was after that, I think the come down from it, just finally like landing and sitting with the damage I'd done to myself and my career and my, you know, and then, you know, how that affects my family, you know. So, yeah, I just had to just close the blinds, turn off the phone and get back into the hard stuff, you know.

41:02Charlie Sheen:How long did that last?

41:03Tucker Carlson:About three months, four months, I think. Maybe longer. Maybe six-ish.

41:11Charlie Sheen:But not six years.

41:12Tucker Carlson:No, no. Because then a couple other things happened as a result of that dark place, you know. But as far as finally putting it down for real, it was, yeah, it was December 12th, 2017.

41:28Charlie Sheen:So I guess my core question is how, and I'm asking this not for prurient reasons, but to inspire others. Like, how did you do that? Because I do think there are a ton of people who want to do that, but keep failing. Sure.

41:42Tucker Carlson:um i i just i my body was really starting to send the kind of messages that that you either pay attention to or you die from yes you know i'd never had the shakes before yep i'd never had the

42:00Charlie Sheen:dts before oh did you get the dts yeah and just just from and not from being off of anything for

42:06Tucker Carlson:a week just from like going to bed drunk and then waking up and not being able to function until, you know, I got a few pops in me just to, just realign my compass. Just to get steady, yeah. Yeah. So that was, that was one. And then.

42:20Charlie Sheen:How scary are the DTs?

42:24Tucker Carlson:Terrifying.

42:24Charlie Sheen:Yeah.

42:25Tucker Carlson:Terrifying.

42:26Charlie Sheen:People die from that.

42:27Tucker Carlson:They do. Yeah. And then, you know, and, and I, I, for the longest time, I thought, you know, I thought Nick's portrayal in Leaving Las Vegas, Nicolas Cage. I thought it was over the top. I'm like, that's an exaggerated example of it. And no, he nailed it. Like spot on. Just the thing about you can't, you can't take a drink because you'll break a tooth. Yeah. And then, you know, a couple of days later, you're puking blood. So your body is like saying, hey man, we have these built-in warning system, these flashing red lights for a reason, you know? And then...

43:12Charlie Sheen:What's interesting is, you know, I think people imagine that the delirium tremens are like something that 80-year-old winos get. Right. But you like weren't that old and you'd had a job the whole time. Sure. Right? So you're functioning, actually. And you still got them.

43:28Tucker Carlson:Yeah. Yeah.

43:30Charlie Sheen:It gets you faster than you realize.

43:32Tucker Carlson:Oh, yeah. Yeah. And then you're the example of that. You're the character in that story. You promised you made a sacred vow to yourself that you would never star in that story. It's just like, ugh. So there's a lot of self-loathing. Of course, yeah. But then, you know, I have an athletic background and I'm competitive. And so it was about a challenge of, okay, it's me against this thing. How tough are we? How much tiger blood is really running through these veins?

44:06Charlie Sheen:The Adonis substrate.

44:08Tucker Carlson:Yes. And so, yeah. And there's a really nice moment in the book. There was a thing with my daughter, Sam, in a car one day. Just like it isn't like this grand event where I, you know, gotten a shootout with the cops and hijacked a blimp and wound up, you know.

44:32Charlie Sheen:Just a blimp. You know what I'm saying? If you could hijack a blimp, I'd be impressed.

44:38Tucker Carlson:Yeah, me too. Yeah. That's a box I've never checked, but it's not a bucket list moment. So that's good news for the blimp industry, right? Yeah, and it was just, it was this really personal, very soulful, painful moment with my daughter that just made me realize in that moment, it was, it was time. Because there's a, there's a theme in the book about, you know, talkers and doers, you know, and it was time to, as I say in the book to, there was nothing left to say. It was time to shut the fuck up and get busy doing. And then that night and the next day, took a few Valium, had a few beers, and then the next morning decided, we're done.

45:25Tucker Carlson:We're done, for real. And it just happened to be Cassandra's birthday, my oldest daughter. It just timed out like that cosmically. There's themes and tones in the book about that kind of stuff where certain circles close when they're supposed to. and certain things align because they have to, you know, everything's about timing because that's just the way it is sometimes.

45:52Charlie Sheen:Yeah. It's pre-written. Yeah. Um, or feels that way anyway, sometimes. Um, what, so what was that? So it's one thing to decide. Lots of people decide. Right. Everyone struggling with addiction has made many decisions on Sunday morning. I got to shut this down.

46:06Tucker Carlson:Sure.

46:07Charlie Sheen:But then you don't.

46:07Tucker Carlson:Right.

46:08Charlie Sheen:Because it's awful. So was it awful?

46:12Tucker Carlson:No. Really? No. It was, I mean, it was a little shaky for a week, but I knew that. I had enough experience with, you know, Star Stop, Star Stop, you know, for a bunch of years. So I knew, you know, what that path in front of me was going to look like, but it was a really short path. Really? Yeah, I knew it wasn't going to be, you know, a long walk into the, you know, the end of the forest. No, it was like from here to that park bench right over there, you know. Wow Yeah And I just I just rewrote I I wouldn't commit To the same stories I'd been told To worship For so long I said I'm gonna rewrite Everything about this What were the stories You've been told to worship Just the stuff In the You know In and around the rooms Of AA That you know You've been to AA before Yeah A combined 21 years What Yeah So it isn't a guy That just did a few meetings And went ah It doesn't work for me It's a guy that really Committed to it And did the steps Like a bunch of times You did Oh yeah Yeah, absolutely.

47:15Tucker Carlson:I sponsored people. I was deep into it. But it never felt like it was celebrating the victories. It was always making everybody, just in my experience, making me rather be prepared for impending doom for the ultimate disaster that I was always on a collision course with. You know, that as long as you've got something, some, you know, some disease on board that is ultimately going to control your behavior. I couldn't subscribe to that any longer. I couldn't do it. Because add to that, that subsequently, you know, I have a legitimate disease on board that is life-threatening. And, you know, I take medicine every day and it's not life-threatening.

48:07Tucker Carlson:It's as manageable as, as diabetes, right? But, but I, and then the doctor said, if you don't take this medicine, you'll die. And that's not something, that's not like you don't, there's no other version of that conversation, you know, that is, that's, that's undebatable, right? So you just, you follow that protocol and stay alive and live a, you know, happy, healthy, fulfilling life, right? Yes. But AA says, you know, you got Southern Disease on board. If you don't go to these meetings every day or make that a part of your regular, you know, your curriculum, you know, then what's in you will kill you.

48:54Tucker Carlson:So I took the pills. I'm alive. Didn't go to a single meeting. And I'm coming up on eight years. That's amazing Well I'm just a rare example of a guy that understands The physiological reality of a disease you can see under a freaking microscope Versus one that I think was born out of necessity To keep people aligned through fear And I'm going to get yelled at by a lot of people But it's all in the book

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52:22Charlie Sheen:worth it. It's interesting. I didn't get so worth AA either. And I always felt like I wanted to de-emphasize that part of me. Like, why would I want to marinate in ugly things? Don't want to stay positive and forward-looking. I like the AA meetings I've been to have brought other people to really. I like the honesty and camaraderie of it. But I do think you're making a point that's impossible to ignore. You don't want to focus on, it's not healthy to focus on the downside all the time.

52:54Tucker Carlson:No, and that's what you're, that you're reminded of and it's drilled in anytime you step in, you know, and then if their slogan is keep coming back, that's implies that you're going to be coming back because something else has taken control and it was, and it's this, it's, what they call a no-fault disease. What does that mean? It went bad again and it's not my fault. You know?

53:28Charlie Sheen:All my problems have all been my fault. 100 % my fault.

53:31Tucker Carlson:Likewise. Likewise. Thank you. Yeah. Otherwise, it's like nothing to apologize for, right? Yeah. Yeah, no. I never felt I never felt celebrated there. I always felt there was just this weird air of suspicion and expectation, you know. Yeah, I don't miss it. I don't miss it. And, you know, I didn't put down the bottle to then, you know, close all the bars or, you know, convince others that this has to be their path as well. It's not, you know, I quit drinking to live in the real world happily and successfully, you know.

54:29Charlie Sheen:Well, I agree with you on that.

54:31Tucker Carlson:Yeah.

54:32Charlie Sheen:There's a bar right behind you that I've never touched, but I like bars. I hate drunkenness, but I love bars. Yeah. Sorry.

54:41Tucker Carlson:Yeah, no, there's an energy in a bar you can't find anywhere else.

54:45Charlie Sheen:In fact, in the decline of bars in the United States, mirrors a kind of societal collapse where no one is with anyone else. I mean, again, I'm a sober person. I don't drink. I would never drink. I hate alcohol. However, I love the idea of people getting together and laughing and telling vulgar jokes and hugging each other in sloppy ways. like that's a bar. I like that. Yeah. Or to watch the big game. A hundred percent. Yeah. And like, that's actually died. People have gotten less sober, but at the same time, everyone's on something. It seems like to me, but there are no bars. Nobody goes to the bar.

55:22Charlie Sheen:That's gone away. I think so. I mean, I'm a little bit cut off, but I, it does feel that way. Interesting. I mean, do you know people like go to the bar? Do you know anyone who picks up members of the opposite sex in a bar?

55:34Tucker Carlson:I know when I shared a story like that, that in recent memory. Exactly. Yeah. Interesting.

55:40Charlie Sheen:So I'm not like endorsing, you know, bar hookups or whatever, but as compared to what, like, I don't know, it's just important for people to be together. That's all I'm saying. I agree. And that was a place for them to do it, which I always liked.

55:52Tucker Carlson:But I, but I have to add that, you know, anyone that's doing AA successfully and, and it's a part of their life and, and, and, and it's the reason that they can have the, the, life that was given back to them or that they claim, you know, reclaimed, then absolutely. Oh, well, of course. A is wonderful for so many people.

56:14Charlie Sheen:Sure. I completely agree with that. I mean, I'm always talking up A, though I don't, you know, I'm not an A guy, but I, but no, I think you're making an important point, which is you don't want to, alcohol is the center of your life when you're addicted to it. And the goal is to make it not the center of your life. Right. That's how I've always felt. I don't want to think about alcohol, actually.

56:33Tucker Carlson:I don't either. I don't either. Yeah. Yeah. I thought about it a lot while I was drinking. Oh, I know. While I was drinking. And I don't, this idea that you have to identify as an alcoholic. Oh, I agree. And it's like, how is someone still an alcoholic that, you know, the guy hasn't had a drink in 20 years?

56:53Charlie Sheen:Right. I'd much rather be identified as a father or something that matters to me. Yeah.

56:57Tucker Carlson:There was a guy in one of our private groups, and I can't say who. Yeah. Super famous. Great dude. and he would identify, they'd go around the room, hi, Dave, alcoholic, Charlie, alcoholic. And if it would get to him, hi, I'm so-and-so human being. And he refused. And they were like, well, that's not how we do it here, man. He's like, you're not allowed to be a human being here? Like, no, of course you are. But it's important you identify with your disease. And he's like, no, first and foremost, I'm here on Earth because I'm a human being, right? And in this room, I'm a human being. And I'm here to address some issues that I have, but I'm not going to just reduce myself to a label.

57:44Tucker Carlson:And I was like, that guy.

57:48Charlie Sheen:Yeah. Did he stay sober?

57:50Tucker Carlson:I think so. Yeah.

57:53Charlie Sheen:Wow. Yeah. An AA meeting in Hollywood must be wild.

57:57Tucker Carlson:It's awful. Why? It's awful because it's not just about that. And that second A is just, that's, they honor that as, you know, as little as possible.

58:10Charlie Sheen:Oh, is that true?

58:11Tucker Carlson:Yeah, no. It's, hey, I heard you were at the Sundowners meeting at, you know, 5th and Broadway or whatever. And it's like, yeah, but I went there because. It was supposed to be anonymous. Second day, yeah. And, yeah, there's a lot of, you know, people that want to give you a script. Actually? Yeah, or want to hit on your girlfriend or just creepy stuff that you're not going to get at home alone watching a ball game, you know. So, yeah, there was an element there that was just never felt just like skeevy at times. And there were other meetings that were like, okay, all right, this makes sense. Cool.

58:52Tucker Carlson:I like these people. And then at some point it turns. At some point it turns. And that's, this is just my experience.

59:01Charlie Sheen:Wow. So, you said when you did that interview, lots of people judged you, lots of people scolded you. Then you go on a tour and you bomb the first night. people judging and scolding you. Who were the people who were kind to you throughout all of the dark moments that you had?

59:19Tucker Carlson:Family. Yeah. You know.

59:23Charlie Sheen:You're close to your family.

59:25Tucker Carlson:I was interested. My ex-wives. Really? Oh, yeah. Yeah. They were very supportive. Really? Yeah. How'd you do that? Yeah, because, you know, I have kids with both of them, except for my first wife, Donna, but with Brooke and Denise. Yeah. So, you know, we decided early on, you know, after the splits that, you know, our stuff is incidental, is secondary. It's, hi there. It's about the kids. You know, we have to have a children first North Star, you know.

1:00:05Charlie Sheen:Yeah, well, lots of people. Yeah. Set that goal.

1:00:08Tucker Carlson:And I'm saying, yeah, it would run through peaks and valleys. But when it's good and is good today, no, they're really supportive. Really? Yeah. The whole time? 80 % of the time. That's amazing. 70 % of the time. Yeah. I'll take it. I'll take it.

1:00:30Charlie Sheen:And your family was kind to you the whole way?

1:00:33Tucker Carlson:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they, you know, a guy with my kind of history and, you know, not so much a chronic relapser, but a guy that would get some time and then just blow it all up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, it's the trust thing that you can't get back in a day or a week or a month. And so what I decided to do was not make the big announcement, not say I've quit drinking everybody and they're going to be like, here we go again, right?

1:01:09Charlie Sheen:Yeah.

1:01:10Tucker Carlson:And I was just going to just do it. And then as soon as someone made a comment about, hey, you're looking clear, you look content.

1:01:20Charlie Sheen:Yeah.

1:01:21Tucker Carlson:As soon as I started hearing stuff like that, I would then volunteer the changes I'd made.

1:01:27Charlie Sheen:It's called a soft launch. Okay.

1:01:29Tucker Carlson:I like that. I like that.

1:01:31Charlie Sheen:You don't do the media tour. You just start doing it.

1:01:34Tucker Carlson:Yeah.

1:01:34Charlie Sheen:Yeah.

1:01:35Tucker Carlson:Yeah. Much more effective.

1:01:36Charlie Sheen:Much more effective. It dials down the pressure. Yeah. A little bit. Do you think, were people like your work peers supportive? Any?

1:01:47Well.

1:01:48Charlie Sheen:Or nice to you. I guess that's what I mean. You mean like former work peers? Yeah. You know, people outside your family who you know.

1:01:56Tucker Carlson:Yeah. Absolutely.

1:01:57Charlie Sheen:So there were loyal people.

1:01:59Tucker Carlson:Yes.

1:01:59Charlie Sheen:That's what I'm asking.

1:02:00Tucker Carlson:Yeah. Because I didn't really, haven't had the big job in this time, which is fine, which is actually probably better, which is good that I had all this time to gain some perspective and just work on myself and be like a responsible, available father to all these kids, you know, and grandkids. How many kids do you have? Five. Five. And three grandkids. It's amazing. It's pretty cool, yeah.

1:02:30Charlie Sheen:You're a biblical patriarch.

1:02:31Tucker Carlson:Thank you. How about that?

1:02:33Charlie Sheen:Is it, like I'm always, I always wonder about, you know, the studios, the manager, the agent, even the accountant, the lawyer, you know, all the people around. Right. Actors and in related businesses. And like, they have kind of a mixed incentive. Like they, you know, you're not doing well, but they want to keep you working. sort of like the athlete who gets, you know, the Novocaine rather than the surgery because he's got to play the game. Do you feel like they, any of them actually try to help or they just kind of want to keep the money coming?

1:03:13In that extreme example that I lived through, I think there was a want to help from specific individuals.

1:03:27Tucker Carlson:I don't think they knew how or that I was reachable enough to receive it.

1:03:36Charlie Sheen:Yes.

1:03:37Tucker Carlson:You know, so I think they had to kind of decide, is it, you know, kind of like, you know, weighing the pros and the cons. Is he going to be at least, if he goes back to work, is that enough of a full-time thing with distractions and responsibilities? that that will be deterrent enough, you know? Or have we sent him just back into the lion's den just covered in fresh blood, you know? So, yeah, I probably, I don't think I was ready to go back to work on anger management on the show about a year after the whole two and a half disaster.

1:04:20Charlie Sheen:Right.

1:04:20Tucker Carlson:And I don't think that was advisable. However, it's still, it comes down to me giving that final, yes, I'll do this. So I do, I have to own that part.

1:04:35Charlie Sheen:Well, yeah. So you said there were threads throughout this whole experience, times, the timing of certain events that made you think there was a supernatural quality here. I mean, did you, how would you identify? Is that God? Like, what is that?

1:04:49Tucker Carlson:Yeah, it's interesting. I got asked this with Bill Maher just last week.

1:04:54Charlie Sheen:Bill Maher asked you about God? Yeah, he did.

1:04:56Tucker Carlson:Yeah. Really?

1:04:57Charlie Sheen:What world is this?

1:04:58Tucker Carlson:What is happening?

1:04:59Charlie Sheen:I don't know. Bill Maher is asking you about God. We are in a brand new age.

1:05:03Tucker Carlson:Yeah. No, and I wasn't happy with my answer.

1:05:07Charlie Sheen:All right. Well, now you have a chance to revise it. Now I have a chance to.

1:05:09Tucker Carlson:Yeah. Most days I don't know what else to call it. Yeah. That's what I should have said in that moment. Most days I don't have a better word or anything else for it. It is exactly that. And just my, whatever my interpretation of that is, you know. But I, yeah, it just kind of caught me off guard. And yeah, I should have just leaned right into it. And I did a little bit of a tap dance, you know.

1:05:36Charlie Sheen:Well, it's kind of weird. I mean, we're, you know, about the same age. Didn't grow up in a world where people talked about God at all. Right, right. Did you?

1:05:45Tucker Carlson:No. Well, my dad, devout Catholic growing up, and rather than that, he always let us know that that was his personal journey. And we were welcome to climb on board, but it wasn't anything that he was going to mandate. Yeah. And so we did have exposure to it in our house our entire life. Really? Yeah. Yeah. And it never. What did you think? I didn't.

1:06:25Tucker Carlson:I saw some, you know, I saw a lot of goodness with it. I saw other stuff I didn't want to align with.

1:06:32Charlie Sheen:Yeah.

1:06:35Tucker Carlson:And yeah, it's, you know, I was talking to Lexi just yesterday, you know, some days I'm all in. Yeah. I'm like, okay, then sure. Well, you know, can I describe it better? Do I have a better prediction? Yeah. No. And there's other days I'm like, I don't know. I don't know. You know, so I'm not, people will read the book and, you know, there's not a chance they say, oh, that guy's an atheist.

1:07:00Charlie Sheen:Right.

1:07:01Tucker Carlson:But there is a chance they go, oh, he's curious. He doesn't quite, he hasn't fully figured it out or.

1:07:07Charlie Sheen:So you're God curious, you would say. Yeah, sure.

1:07:09Tucker Carlson:Yeah, and I don't think that's, and that's not me just wanting to say that in your presence. That's me having time to.

1:07:17Charlie Sheen:In my presence.

1:07:18Tucker Carlson:Well, because, you know, right? I don't know.

1:07:21Charlie Sheen:I mean, I'm hardly an authority on the subject.

1:07:24Tucker Carlson:No, but I understand what it means to you.

1:07:27Charlie Sheen:It's come to me now. Yeah, I mean, again, things are changing so fast and I don't have the answers to most questions, but I definitely have become convinced that God's real for sure. Yeah, no, and that's inspiring.

1:07:39Tucker Carlson:to see that level of acceptance. Well, don't you feel it, kind of? I do. I do. But there's still, there's a part of me that, you know, just still wants to be a science snob.

1:07:57Charlie Sheen:I get it.

1:07:58Tucker Carlson:Yeah. Because you were, I mean, for the longest time. My whole life. Yeah. I mean, I'm not, I was always pro things about it I like,

1:08:08Charlie Sheen:But I mean, I would, I don't think I would ever say in public, I know God's real because that's like freaky. And also there are cultural connotations attached that are just different from the culture that I grew up in, like completely different. So, you know, it just sounded kind of phony or not really like me or whatever, but then things change so much in the world. And I saw all this stuff that blew my mind. And I was like, wow, God is real. I can't believe this. And then when you say it, you're like, actually, that's not crazy. Everyone's always thought that. I can't believe I was like embarrassed to say that.

1:08:41Charlie Sheen:So then once, I do think that once you say it, something in you changes. That's been my experience. Not that I have a ton of experience or would feel qualified to give advice to anyone. I certainly don't, but yeah.

1:08:52Tucker Carlson:I don't want to get there and be wrong. You know what I mean? Yeah, well, you don't. There's the thing. I don't think. There's the thing. But isn't there some like, aren't you allowed to wait till the last minute?

1:09:12Charlie Sheen:I think once, you know, it's just, it's kind of like a lot of things. You arrive in a place and you're like, yeah, wait, I've always known this. Interesting. I've always known this. I've always felt this. And it's totally what I thought. Right. You do occasionally feel that way about things? Of course. Yes.

1:09:31Tucker Carlson:No, I'm not controlling any part of all this.

1:09:35Charlie Sheen:Right.

1:09:36Tucker Carlson:That I know for a fact.

1:09:38Charlie Sheen:Right. And it doesn't have the feeling of randomness, does it?

1:09:42Tucker Carlson:No. No, there's too many signs. Nothing's a coincidence. Exactly. It's just, everything's connected. Exactly. Yeah.

1:09:50Charlie Sheen:And people are connected.

1:09:52Tucker Carlson:Yeah. And how do you explain deja vu?

1:09:55Charlie Sheen:Well, you kind of can't. And then you realize that actually the real religious nuts or the science snobs who are sort of desperately backfilling against the evidence. Like, well, what does that mean? Well, shut up. They're just like so desperate to cling to something that is just absurd. I'm not saying that the physical world can't be measured in a lab. Of course, it can. Right. And I'm grateful for that. And I'm grateful for its byproducts like, I don't know, automobiles and penicillin. But I'm not against science. But the idea that science explains everything is itself a religion and really kind of the dumbest religion ever concocted.

1:10:38Charlie Sheen:And the people who espouse it know that it's dumb. And that's why they're so brittle and so given to lecturing you about it. There's no Mormon missionary who's ever been judgier or more persistent than Tony Fauci. Trust the science! Wow. Does any Christian ever say that? Trust the religion.

1:10:55Tucker Carlson:Not that I've ever met. Or I'll hurt you.

1:10:57Charlie Sheen:Yeah, yeah. I mean, the science religious wackos believe in conversion by the sword. Like, do what we say or we'll hurt you. Right. That's not a religion I want to be anywhere near. Me neither.

1:11:10Tucker Carlson:No, no, that's bad. Doesn't sound loving. Doesn't sound forgiving.

1:11:15Charlie Sheen:No, it sounds dangerous, actually. Yeah, it does. Sounds kind of like Al-Qaeda a little bit. So I just think, and it's sad because who acts like that? Only people who know they're wrong act like that. Interesting.

1:11:29Tucker Carlson:Yeah. Right? Yeah. Yeah. There's actually a line in the book that, I don't know where I read this or heard this, but somebody smarter than me described science as an ongoing historical series of corrected mistakes. Exactly. How about that? Yes.

1:11:53Charlie Sheen:Yeah, it's just kind of institutional. It's a method for satisfying curiosity and understanding the physical world. And I'm totally for that, completely for that. But at its heart is skepticism and an acknowledgement that you don't know the answers to the most obvious questions. And so keep trying to find the answers. Sure. I'm 100 % in favor of all of that, of course. But what it's become is the medieval church, brittle, rigid, punitive, stupid, laughable. And the second you describe it with no emotion, any normal person's like, well, that's insane. I don't want to be part of that. Right. Right?

1:12:33Charlie Sheen:Yeah.

1:12:34Tucker Carlson:Yes. Yeah. And, but I'm, you know, I'm not, I'm not going to try to solve the unsolvable. Right. You know, and I'm fine being completely mystified by it.

1:12:49Charlie Sheen:Well, that's the beginning of wisdom. You know what I'm saying? To admit you're mystified. Right. Because you're admitting you're not all-knowing.

1:12:55Tucker Carlson:No. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Not all-knowing.

1:13:00Charlie Sheen:Well, speaking of mysteries, how did you wind up knowing Alex Jones?

1:13:05Tucker Carlson:How did I wind up knowing Alex Jones? He, it was his early videos. It was his early documentaries. It was the stuff he produced himself, like on VHS. How could you have seen that? How did I see it originally?

1:13:20Charlie Sheen:You're like in Los Angeles making movies.

1:13:23Tucker Carlson:Yeah. It's wild. I've always been a guy that just needs to peek behind the curtain. I've always been a guy that's done my own research. Always been a guy that just never, not always satisfied with the official story about anything. Good. And, you know, I create fiction for a living. Yes. I'm pretty good at spotting it. Oh, I just want to pause on that.

1:13:49Charlie Sheen:I create fiction for a living. I'm pretty good at spotting it. Yeah.

1:13:54Tucker Carlson:It's a good quote, right?

1:13:55Charlie Sheen:It's a great quote.

1:13:55Tucker Carlson:It's true.

1:13:56Charlie Sheen:Yeah.

1:13:56Tucker Carlson:Thank you. Thank you. And so, you know, Dad played both Kennedys, you know, when we were growing up. So we had access to JFK stuff that wasn't in the public sphere. Documentaries and, you know, unedited Zapruder stuff. And so we were, you know, I talked with Rogan about this a little bit last week. And we were, you know, so we always had to, we're just raised to, you know, take a deeper dive. look at things just with a more, just polished, through a more polished lens, you know, or skeptical lens. And so, yeah, I, you know, be it JFK or 9-11 or Oak City or Columbine.

1:14:52Charlie Sheen:We just did 9-11 doc and it was an amazing experience for me to be involved in this because I not only bought the 9-11 story, I was very resistant to anyone who questioned it because it felt like disrespectful or desecrating the crape. I don't know why I had that incredibly embarrassing, not at all noble reaction to people's honest questions about 9-11. So it took me a long time to want to rethink it. And then once you do, you realize like it's just a tissue of lies. At what point did you start asking questions about it?

1:15:33Tucker Carlson:04, 05, whenever loose change dropped. Yeah. That was the first. Well, no, actually on the day. Really? On the day. Yeah. There were things, Emilio and I had a, because everybody like rushed to Malibu. We were like in the city. I was in a high rise. I didn't know how far this thing reached, you know, like everybody just had to get back to the folks house. Like, you know, let's reassemble at base camp, you know. And Emilio and I were out on the deck and I said, you know, man. At your parents. Yeah. Yeah. And I said, there's something about the way that building came down. I'm just, I don't know.

1:16:11Tucker Carlson:And, you know, by that point we had seen different angles of it. And it was really, it was, you know, there was a lot of content to digest, you know, horrific content, might I add. And we just, yeah. And then I just thought, nah, because that would entail all of these things.

1:16:33Charlie Sheen:You just shut it down in your head.

1:16:34Tucker Carlson:Yeah, we talked each other out of it because that would entail.

1:16:39Charlie Sheen:It's interesting though that Two guys in the business of like Manufacturing images Right Would focus on that image and say That there's something about that That's weird Right

1:16:49Tucker Carlson:And so I kind of just let it I let it You know Just didn't Didn't go near it

1:16:55Charlie Sheen:Yeah

1:16:56Tucker Carlson:And then You know it led to What it led to The whole world was different You know The whole world was different

1:17:06Charlie Sheen:It's never returned to what it was.

1:17:08Tucker Carlson:No, it really hasn't. No, there's pre and there's post. Yes. And then I watched that documentary. I'd been, you know, a fan of Alex's early stuff, you know, and that's, you know, just him.

1:17:24Charlie Sheen:So you knew who he was on 9-11? Yeah.

1:17:27Tucker Carlson:How? How did I?

1:17:30Charlie Sheen:He's my friend. I would mean no disrespect. I love him. He's coming here in a month. But I'd never heard of Alex Jones on 9-11. And I was in the news business. I don't know. How would you have heard of him? That's amazing.

1:17:41Tucker Carlson:Just, you know, spending time like in those, on those research channels. And just in that part of the, you know, those subjects, you know.

1:17:57Charlie Sheen:It's interesting that you, so you have long felt like you want to look at other sources of information.

1:18:03Tucker Carlson:Of course. Yeah. I've always done my own research, always. And then -

1:18:10Charlie Sheen:Do you know other people? Did you know other people around 9-11 who already were thinking like this? Like maybe reality as presented to us is not entirely real.

1:18:21Tucker Carlson:People would believe things only so far.

1:18:24Charlie Sheen:Yes.

1:18:25Tucker Carlson:And so I would back off and I say, you know what, we're just gonna focus on two things. We're just two things. And if you can explain those, I'll submit to the official story. I'll just say, all right, fine. However you say it had to play out, I'm in, right?

1:18:45Charlie Sheen:But explain these anomalies first.

1:18:47Tucker Carlson:Yeah, Building 7 and the Pentagon.

1:18:48Charlie Sheen:Yeah.

1:18:49Tucker Carlson:Just help me out there. You know, I've got to believe that the Pentagon is the most protected and documented, you know, video protected, surveilled building in the history of the known universe, right? Turns out not. Well, I'm saying.

1:19:07Charlie Sheen:I think we just have two videos from the parking lot. Parking kiosk. Yeah.

1:19:12Tucker Carlson:Yeah. So that's the thing. And then. That is weird, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. And then building seven. It just, you can't, you just can't, you can't watch that and say that is the result of a fire that burned for five hours on two floors. You can't sell that to me. And, and, and, and, you know, that for years that was always met with, that is disrespecting the victims. And I'm like, I don't, okay, how, how is that disrespecting the fallen heroes? How? If you're just looking for the truth behind what is clearly not how it was explained. Clearly. I mean, a three-year-old could look at that and know, you know, that looked like that hotel in Vegas that we watched them bring down intentionally, you know?

1:20:08Tucker Carlson:So that's how I met Alex, was reaching out to him.

1:20:11Charlie Sheen:You trust your eyes. You've always trusted your own perceptions. Yeah.

1:20:15Tucker Carlson:And, but I did this in the middle of two and a half at its peak, decided to be vocal about 9-11. Networking the studio, they were like, oh my gosh, there's actually a commercial because one of the advantages we had with that show promotionally was the NFL. because we were a Monday show all of Sunday. All the CBS football games on Sunday were just, you know, every 20 minutes it's a commercial for us. And that is like a built-in thing to keep the ratings and the momentum in the eyes and all of it. Yeah, and it was great. It was the best tool you could possibly have. So they made a commercial, like a promo, and it's probably on YouTube somewhere.

1:21:06Tucker Carlson:someone out there is going to find it, right? And it opens with, Charlie has a lot of questions. And then my character would be, hey, Alan, you know, where'd you hide the beer? Hey, mom, where'd I leave my car? Charlie's really curious. Hey, yeah, you know, is that, is that, is that, is that, is that a silk bra or is that polyester? Whatever, like actual lines from the show to support Charlie's curiosity, Charlie Harper, right? Yeah. But Charlie in the world, like going into places that on a corporate level with a giant hit show, your lead actor is not supposed to be doing. So they tried to make it kind of like, hey, he's doing these things, but don't worry, he's still in our world doing them.

1:21:58Tucker Carlson:They just, it was kind of a brilliant piece of propaganda if you think about it.

1:22:03Charlie Sheen:Really, I was just thinking that. It's a Gito move. You take the energy and you pull it in your direction.

1:22:07Tucker Carlson:Right? Yeah. And I remember watching it and I was flattered that they like put all that energy into this thing that I'm sure was upsetting a lot of people. And I never saw it again.

1:22:21Charlie Sheen:Did they ever say anything to you directly about your questions about 9-11?

1:22:25Tucker Carlson:Kind of, but not really. things like maybe it's not the best time to be doing this kind of research kid maybe you know take a little pause for the cause yeah it was and yeah they but they didn't like you know show up at my house right like they did for you know going crazy on dope or testosterone. But yeah, they were nervous. And I did pull it back. I did organize a symposium in LA, though. It's a three-day event called A Weekend of Truth. Alex Jones was the key speaker in the middle of two and a half. Seriously? Yeah, I did. Yeah.

1:23:19Charlie Sheen:Did you feel that your job was at risk by doing that?

1:23:23Tucker Carlson:I thought the other stuff was more important than than my job. Really? Yeah.

1:23:30Charlie Sheen:No, I, it just. How many lead actors on hit shows put anything above their job?

1:23:36Tucker Carlson:Cult of one?

1:23:38Charlie Sheen:Yeah, none. None.

1:23:39Tucker Carlson:Well, dad, my dad has at times gone heavily against the grain in the face of, you know, the same type of pressure.

1:23:47Charlie Sheen:Yes.

1:23:49Tucker Carlson:But yeah, no, that was. And then when Alex and I got together and I sent him that email that I told you about. Yeah, yeah. And my last line was, zero hour is upon us.

1:24:01Charlie Sheen:So just for people who weren't at breakfast here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You said that you saw something he did and you just emailed him cold. I did.

1:24:13Tucker Carlson:I said, hi, Alex, I'm a fan for years. Perhaps you've heard of me. My name is Charlie Sheen. I said, we have to talk. Zero hour is upon us. and he called in 10 minutes.

1:24:26Charlie Sheen:Amazing. Yeah. And then flew out to see you.

1:24:29Tucker Carlson:Yeah. Yeah. And then we thought, okay, let's build a secret weapon. Let's do something that like is unique and, you know, let's do something in the media. Let's use the media to try to, I guess this would have been 07, 08.

1:24:49Charlie Sheen:Yes.

1:24:50Tucker Carlson:So we got together And we wrote this piece called 20 Minutes with the President. And what it was, it was a fictional retelling of this 20 minutes that I was granted by Obama. And it was me sitting down with him, asking him 20 questions about 9-11. and asking him that based on these irrefutable bullet points, that if he would consider activating, reopening a new 9-11 commission. And we put it online.

1:25:30Charlie Sheen:And you didn't actually get 20 minutes until Obama asked this.

1:25:34Tucker Carlson:No, it was all made up. It was all made up. But the research that Alex and I dug into that we, Because, you know, it could have been 100 questions, could have been 100 minutes with the president. And we drilled down into the 20 things that were really bulletproof, really bulletproof. And so we published it online. And we let it kind of marinate for about 20 minutes before we added. The following has not taken, didn't actually take place. But we're hoping one day that it could or that it might. So we did let kind of the hysteria build a little bit that people thought, holy hell, man, did Sheen and Obama, right?

1:26:22Tucker Carlson:This thing actually happened. Because we didn't want to prejudice it with it being a work of fiction right from send. And it was a little bit of a manipulation, but so what, right?

1:26:38Charlie Sheen:Did anyone from the Obama White House reach out to you?

1:26:41Tucker Carlson:There's a guy. He was the deputy press secretary. His name was Bill something. Bill Burton? Yes. Yeah. He called me. I got the memory. Well done. Thank you. Yeah. Because I knew his name was the same two initials. Yeah. He called me. And I said, hey, thank you. And he's like, yeah, that thing that you and your buddy wrote, that meeting you're looking for, never going to happen. Those were his words. Never going to happen. I said, well, that's a shame because it really should. He said, okay, all right, good luck to you. Have a nice day. It was like a 14-second phone call.

1:27:26Charlie Sheen:Yeah.

1:27:27Tucker Carlson:But anyway, so, yeah. And I guess, and then Alex said, look, when this thing goes out, they're not going to debate any of it. because we told, it was Bill O 'Reilly, it was Harold Rivera. We said, we'll sit down and debate you just on these 20 things. And nobody bit. And Alex said, look, they're just going to call you.

1:27:44Charlie Sheen:Nobody bit?

1:27:45Tucker Carlson:No. Nobody took the challenge.

1:27:49Charlie Sheen:And you're at the height of the show's popularity. Yeah.

1:27:52Tucker Carlson:Nobody took the debate challenge.

1:27:54Charlie Sheen:You're one of the most famous actors in the world. And you're offering talk show hosts the opportunity to be on their show. Right. to talk about something that is really interesting and controversial, and they say no?

1:28:06Tucker Carlson:They said no, yeah.

1:28:07Charlie Sheen:What do you think that is, Charlie Sheen? That's a little weird. It's a little weird. Having been in the talk show business, I can promise you.

1:28:14Tucker Carlson:Yeah.

1:28:15Charlie Sheen:You should have called me, man. I would have done it in a second. Yeah, well. Probably scolded you for your ridiculous questions, but I still would have done it.

1:28:23Tucker Carlson:Right, yeah. Our disrespecting memory of the victims. Yeah, how dare we?

1:28:28Charlie Sheen:Finding out why they were murdered is disrespect. Right. Now, I know it's insane. And I always force myself to admit that I had these views because I want to be less judgmental toward other people. And reminding yourself what an asshole you are is a really good way to be less judgmental. But also because it's like it's a feature of human nature that we don't want to know the truth about things, actually. Interesting. Don't you think that's true? Well, it's clearly not true for you, but it has been true for me. I don't want to know. I don't want to know that.

1:29:02Tucker Carlson:What do we then do with that information?

1:29:06Charlie Sheen:Trust me, I'm not defending that attitude at all. I'm ashamed that I had it, but I just think it's more calm. And I think of myself as like one of the most open-minded people I know. I mean, I am very, very open-minded. I'll entertain any possibility because I've seen so much that you can't not entertain any possibility. Right. But if I have felt that way, that means that it's probably just how people are built. and you have to convince them that they should know what's true. Sure. That the truth does matter, actually.

1:29:34Tucker Carlson:It does. It does. But Alex said, they're just going to paint you as crazy. Well, of course. And I said, really? That's like, they can't get more creative than that? He says, no, they're just going to call you crazy. And smash cut to like a week later, and it was literally, it was Bill O 'Reilly, and it was Geraldo. And they just dismissed me in one sentence. Well, Charlie Sheen's obviously crazy.

1:29:59Charlie Sheen:No.

1:30:00Tucker Carlson:Yeah. Yeah. Someone can find that clip, I'm sure.

1:30:03Charlie Sheen:Handmaidens to power. Wow. I love it.

1:30:06Tucker Carlson:Yeah.

1:30:07Charlie Sheen:That is.

1:30:08Tucker Carlson:But then I saw Bill O 'Reilly outside of Dr. Oz one day. I saw him in the parking lot. He was just over there. I guess he was the second guest or he'd already come out or something. And I started walking right up to him. He's kind of a big dude, right? He's huge. Yeah. He said, he's not going to punch me, are you? I said, no, I'm not stupid. I don't want to get my ass kicked. He's like, well, I said, I came over to give you a handshake. Someone shake your hand. He was like, oh, okay. Well, good to meet you. I said, nice to meet you. And he's like, yeah, sorry about the doves. I said, I don't care.

1:30:41Tucker Carlson:I don't care. You know, I get it. It's showbiz. That's what I said to him. It's showbiz.

1:30:46Charlie Sheen:What did he say?

1:30:47Tucker Carlson:He laughed. And then we both went in and had a pretty good episode with us. But it was a trip. He was like, he was on his heels a little bit. Yeah.

1:30:59Charlie Sheen:He's not as comfortable with human contact. Yeah, that's pretty disgraceful on all of our parts. And I don't think I would have called you crazy because objectively, it's not crazy to ask about why the greatest tragedy in American history happened.

1:31:13Tucker Carlson:I didn't think it was. It's not. And it's still not.

1:31:17Charlie Sheen:Shutting people down for asking sincere questions is, you know, very hard to defend, I think.

1:31:24Tucker Carlson:Yeah. But anyway, that's the Alex Jones kind of origin story. That's amazing. I just wish I could tell you where I actually acquired the videos. And it had to have been online, like mail order stuff. So you really cared? Yeah. Yeah. And he just, the stuff that I'd seen, he just was a guy that was just on the constant hunt for the truth. And just, you know, for the right reasons.

1:31:50Charlie Sheen:Yes.

1:31:50Tucker Carlson:Not to exploit it, but to expose it and share it and do something about it. I think that's all noble.

1:31:58Charlie Sheen:And I think that of him, you know. And I think, by the way, he's been vindicated by time, I think. I don't think quite as many people mock Alex Jones as crazy anymore. At all. They can't. No, that's exactly right. He called 9-11? Really? Did you call 9-11? I don't think you did.

1:32:13Tucker Carlson:No, I didn't.

1:32:13Charlie Sheen:Nobody did. Nobody did. Alex Jones did. So right there, we know that he's worth taking seriously. In fact, it's worth asking, how did you do that? I've asked him many times, never gotten a straight answer, but we know for a fact he did. It's documented. So that's incredible.

1:32:25Tucker Carlson:My dad spent some time with him. Really? Yeah, because we asked dad to read the president role because we wrote it like a play when it gets to the thing about the actual conversation that we have. And we wanted to hear it out loud to see if it sounded like legit exchanges of dialogue. and he was currently playing the president, right? So he and I played the scene.

1:32:53Charlie Sheen:So you both had big shows at the same time.

1:32:55Tucker Carlson:Yeah, on the same lot. We'd visit each other like at lunch. No way. Not often because we were both super busy, but yeah. They overlapped by I think two seasons, maybe three. Warner, the Warner Brothers lot, yeah. And then so dad spent some time with Alex and anytime he'd leave the room, dad was like, I don't know, man. I think this guy's ex-CIA. I think he's too smart. He knows everything. I think he's got a background that is like this thing. Interesting. Yeah. Which was him complimenting Alex.

1:33:29Charlie Sheen:Well, and it's the way that people talk now. It was not the way people talked then. Right. So that's interesting. I mean, now that just sounds like Twitter. Right. But then people took things at face value. Right. I mean, do you remember? Well, obviously you were in a different world. So how did other people in Hollywood react to the, so you're at Nobu in Malibu and you say, I don't really understand how Tower 7 came down. What do people say?

1:33:53Tucker Carlson:It's not, it's, it's, there's more resistance to it than alignment.

1:33:59Charlie Sheen:Yeah.

1:34:00Tucker Carlson:Yeah. Not, not, not, not so much anymore, but at the time in that moment when, you know, it was like the lone voice out there, at least in my industry. But it was a lot of support from, you know, Architects for Truth, Pilots for Truth, all of those various associations.

1:34:17Charlie Sheen:Actual experts, you mean?

1:34:17Tucker Carlson:Those guys, yeah.

1:34:19Charlie Sheen:Right. Yeah. So you're just reminding me, how did this interview get started, set up in the first place? I totally forgot about this. Like, you wound up at this table this morning because why?

1:34:31Tucker Carlson:Because I saw a promo somewhere online, not even on YouTube, that Sean Stone had directed a six -part documentary called All the President's Men. And the only place that it could be viewed was on your platform.

1:34:51Charlie Sheen:Yes. And so I signed up and I watched it, all six episodes, in one day. Wow.

1:35:03Tucker Carlson:Yeah. And had to sit down and have a conversation with myself about just everything that, well, it goes back. It was a gear I was familiar with because it was a downshift that made sense. Yes. Because it goes back to a guy that does his own research. Yes. And I hadn't for so long. I hadn't done my own research for so long. And, you know, I decided that when the second Trump victory, right, that I was not going to allow myself to feel how I felt during the first one. I just wasn't going to do it because it just wasn't, it wasn't healthy for me. It wasn't, it didn't, it didn't, no part of my life got better feeling like that every single day.

1:36:02Tucker Carlson:Being told who I was supposed to despise and why I was supposed to despise them, you know, and you were on that list. Yeah. And I was on the despised list. Yeah.

1:36:13Charlie Sheen:Yeah.

1:36:14Tucker Carlson:Yeah. I mean, it's, and so, you know, apologies.

1:36:19Charlie Sheen:I'm, I've been so despised for so long. The sting is gone. Yeah.

1:36:24Tucker Carlson:No, but I watched that documentary and it just, I, I, now I was armed with some fresh data. Did you know Sean Stone? Yeah. I've known him since Wall Street. He plays Michael Douglas's tiny child in the movie. No way. Yeah. So I've known him since he was a child. And then I reconnected with him as an adult and we had talked about a project here or there. He would write a script and send it to me. I'm like. He's a good guy. He's a great guy. Yeah. Really smart. Really cool. Just texted me right now. Oh, I know. I know.

1:36:53Charlie Sheen:It's so strange.

1:36:54Tucker Carlson:Yeah. And so I, you know, I would read a script that he wrote and say, it's not for me, but it's really good, you know. And then I didn't talk to him for a while and then saw that he'd done this and done it brilliantly. And so it just, it created a desire to just, you know, embark on what I can describe as an experiment. An experiment. Just changing the channel. just you know stop listening to the chorus of of nonsense that uh you know in the in the another thing that that twilight zone that i was stuck in for and it's just so dumb yeah funny

1:37:38Charlie Sheen:thing is that sean did that series we we didn't um produced for him at all he came to us with

1:37:44Tucker Carlson:the series i think i'm actually in the series yeah yeah um so he came to my house and i you

1:37:51Charlie Sheen:know, sat for it and everything. And I like Sean a lot. I really like his, I know his dad and I, and I admire his dad. I do agree with him on everything, but like, I think he's an honest guy and I think he's a brave guy. And he's by the way, earned the right to have his opinions as far as I'm concerned. Having dropped out of Yale to serve in the infantry during Vietnam. And like, he's a good man. Uh, Oliver is anyway, but he, uh, I don't think he could get it aired anywhere. That's the crazy thing. Interesting. Yeah. Things have changed so much that the level of open mindedness in the world that he grew up in is just gone.

1:38:26Charlie Sheen:There's just no open mindedness. It's like, here's the story. Deviate from it. We'll kill you.

1:38:30Tucker Carlson:Right.

1:38:30Charlie Sheen:It's like it's crazy rigid.

1:38:33Tucker Carlson:Do you feel that? I do. I do. Yeah, but it just really, it brought me to a place to continue with further research into some of these subjects, you know, And to, as I said, change the channel, you know? And, you know, like most experiments, the results are constantly evolving.

1:39:02Charlie Sheen:Yeah.

1:39:03Tucker Carlson:Right? But so far, I'm pretty happy with those results.

1:39:08Charlie Sheen:It's kind of wild who you wind up talking to and agreeing with.

1:39:11Tucker Carlson:Yeah.

1:39:12Charlie Sheen:Isn't it?

1:39:12Tucker Carlson:Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, also, if you're told to feel a certain way about someone because of this specific set of examples or reasons or whatever, and then you decide one day you're going to investigate on your own.

1:39:28Charlie Sheen:Oh, yes.

1:39:29Tucker Carlson:And then you come to something that is the exact opposite of how you were told to feel.

1:39:37Charlie Sheen:Oh, yes.

1:39:38Tucker Carlson:Because you decided to, I don't know, be autonomous maybe. Right. And just exercise.

1:39:44Charlie Sheen:Live as a free man.

1:39:45Tucker Carlson:Yeah, there's that part. Yeah.

1:39:47Charlie Sheen:Yeah.

1:39:47Tucker Carlson:And so it's been quite liberating.

1:39:51Charlie Sheen:The distance between what you're told someone is and what you discover when you spend time with the person, it's really vast. I had that experience with Oliver Stone, and I'll be honest. I mean, I always thought Oliver Stone was a kook, a conspiracy nut. I was told to believe that. I accepted it uncritically. years later, I wind up at Oliver Stone's house in Los Angeles alone, just me and Oliver Stone, about something specific. And I'm like, I can't believe I'm at Oliver Stone's house. Like, wow. You know what I mean? I'm sure you've had this feeling. Sure. Maybe you have it right now. I'm having it right now.

1:40:25I am.

1:40:26Charlie Sheen:Sorry. And I'm like... And have been for the last hour. Yeah. So I'm like midway through this conversation with Oliver Stone and I'm like, Oliver Stone is a really nice man. A courtly man. Very smart. Yeah. and has thought through everything that he's saying. And by the way, I agree with everything I've heard him say. I don't agree with the things I've heard said about him. Right. Like those are bad. Sure. But what he's actually saying to me, I'm like, I completely agree with you. And also you're a decent person. And so I'm like, why did I? And then I really felt misled, I guess, is what I'm trying to say.

1:41:02Charlie Sheen:Yeah. I had been lied to. And that's not the only case where I've been lied to and where I uncritically accepted those lies. And so then you feel stung by that. Like, what? You lied to me because you didn't want me to have this conversation. I don't know who I'm referring to when I say you, but like the media environment that I grew up in and that my views were formed in was dishonest, really dishonest and probably intentionally so. And probably part of the design was to prevent me from ever talking to people with whom I might share common ground because that would be a threat to the people lying to me.

1:41:34Tucker Carlson:Of course. Yeah. Yeah. No, you're telling my story too.

1:41:40Charlie Sheen:Well, it's just, I wouldn't have had this experience if it weren't for my job where, you know, the one upside is I can talk to a lot of people. You know, you can have people's phone numbers, you can call them. Sure. Why is he calling me? Okay, I'll take the call. Like you have the chance to actually meet people that you hear about. But I think for most people who have normal jobs, like how would they ever wind up at Oliver Stone's house? They wouldn't. No. Right? So they would never know that they, not only that he's a good guy and worth listening to, but also that they've been lied to. They have no idea because they're never going to get out within a thousand yards of Oliver Stone or whatever.

1:42:13Charlie Sheen:Right, right, right, yeah. So the deception is really subtle and incredibly effective.

1:42:20Tucker Carlson:Sure. But it's, you know, what it's taught me is just to go, just to, you know, trust going back to basics. Yes. And not, until I have an experience with a person that, you know, that I can't rely on the opinions of others because of, you know, just how, you know, however they've chosen to see the world.

1:42:50Charlie Sheen:Exactly.

1:42:51Tucker Carlson:You know, or experience the world.

1:42:54Charlie Sheen:You got to spend the weekend in Moscow. That will make you as angry as you've ever been because, not because, you know, I'm not Russian. I'm not moving to Moscow. I don't want to move to Moscow. I want to live in my country. I don't love Russia for some weird reason. I just, I was angry because I was like, this is nothing like I thought it was. I'd never been here. It's very hard to get there. You're not going to go there by accident. You have to really try to get there. Probably won't even succeed. I did succeed. And I learned like, oh my gosh, they've been lying about this. And so then I tried to say, you know, we've been lied to about what it's actually like.

1:43:30Charlie Sheen:You can make your own judgments about the politics of Putin and Ukraine or whatever. It's totally up to you. Decide what you think about that. But the physical reality of that city is undeniable to anyone who walks through it. And so I say this and it's like, shut up, Putin's dude. I was like, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not defending Putin. Or maybe, you know, whatever. It has nothing to do with Putin. Look at the city. This is insane. And you lied about it. And I'm mad at you. Shut up. It's like, that will blow your mind. Don't go there.

1:43:59Tucker Carlson:Okay.

1:44:00Charlie Sheen:Yeah, because you don't need the aggravation. Okay.

1:44:04Tucker Carlson:No trips planned there anytime soon No you can't go I was there in 94 Oh when it was tough right Yeah Yeah And we shot It was bad I mean not the worst film But it should have been a great film And it wasn't It was a disappointment It's called Terminal Velocity It was a skydiving thing With Nastassja Kinski Whatever What was she like She was pretty cool She was pretty cool Yeah she's sexy and fun and... What happened to her? She's still around, right? I mean, I don't know. I think she was dating Quincy Jones at the time. And so they... Their relationship was a little bit bristly, you know? So she'd be on the phone with him in her trailer and then she'd come out of the set and at times was still carrying the tail end of that conversation into the scene, but I had a terrific time working with her.

1:45:01Tucker Carlson:I hope she's doing well. But so we went there just for like four days or myself, Chris McDonald. Yeah. Anyway, and I get to the airport and Chris and I are just on the way there. I mean, how long is that flight? 14? Quite long, yeah. Yeah, we're hammered. And I'm in the airport and there's a guy before I can even like find my bags who's up in my face screaming taxi, taxi, taxi, taxi, right? And I don't need a taxi. I know there's a car waiting for him. I don't speak Russian, you know? And I'm like, I'm fine. I'm fine. No, no, no. It's like taxi, taxi, taxi. And I'm just, at some point, it somehow got to fuck off, right?

1:45:42Charlie Sheen:I bet pretty quickly.

1:45:45Tucker Carlson:No, it did about two minutes. I was trying to be patient, but I did say fuck off out loud. But it wasn't like, fuck off. It was just, you know, fuck off, man. And I just kind of threw it to the clouds. And I guess fuck off there means something a lot different than it means where I come from. And the guy lost his fucking mind.

1:46:08Charlie Sheen:It's pretty tough here, too, I would say, even in English.

1:46:11Tucker Carlson:Right. But he started repeating, fuck off, fuck off, fuck off, fuck off. And he tried to get to me. And so whoever was with us had to get between the two of us and like keep this guy from like really doing some damage, you know. At the airport. At the airport, yeah. So I, after that, I only saw the hotel and I saw the set where we shot and my trailer. That was it.

1:46:41Charlie Sheen:Yeah.

1:46:42Tucker Carlson:I was like, okay, this is, the rules are a lot different.

1:46:45Charlie Sheen:Well, 94 was kind of a famously low ebb, I think, for Russia. Right.

1:46:51Tucker Carlson:So that's my Russian air flight experience. Lots of killings.

1:46:54Charlie Sheen:So you were on a media tour for the book and the doc, and you were doing Rogan last week when Charlie Kirk was murdered.

1:47:02Tucker Carlson:Yeah. You were actually in the middle of the interview? We were, yeah. Yeah. And like we just had the bathroom break, I said to Joe, I said, is it cool? Can we pause so I can hit the head? And he says, yeah, we can wrap it up pretty soon. And I said, well, let's just cover, let's just do a couple more minutes at the end, just cover one more thing. And then we can wrap it up. He's like, you got it. And then so the producer pauses and as soon as we're clear, he says, Joe, there's breaking news and it's really bad and it's everywhere and it's really bad. And Joe's, no, he says, Joe, don't look at your phone.

1:47:48Tucker Carlson:And Joe's like, tell me. He says, breaking news, really bad. And Joe says, what's going on? And he says, Charlie Kirk's been shot and he's clinging to life. And it was just, it was, suddenly everything was different, you know, for all the wrong reasons. It was just awful, awful. And then we, like 30 seconds later, we go out in the lobby and one of his security guys says to Joe, he just died. Charlie's dead. And then it's Went from bad to Just as awful As it could have been You know And it was I hate to say it It felt surreal Yeah It always does I don't want to be disrespectful That's not disrespectful That's the experience

1:48:39Charlie Sheen:That every person has When something that shocking happens

1:48:41Tucker Carlson:We sit together And then we couldn't really Get the details Then we went We finally wound up In the bathroom And Joseph I said, we need to talk about this on the air. And I said, yes, we do. And so we came back on. And then I guess what they've been playing a lot is us coming out of that moment. And for me, I immediately went to fatherless children, husbandless widow. And it was just that part of it breaks my heart. Yeah. You know? And it's just, and for what? And for what? You know, I mean, I've been as mad and in complete disagreement, just the absolute total, you know, nuclear frustration with people.

1:49:34Tucker Carlson:And have never thought like, well, now this has to be the next logical step. This is the thing that I now must do because of how they've made me feel with their words. And it's just that that's where we've arrived. That's where we're at, you know. If that's the case, we can't stay here. No. We can't. And what his wife said at his memorial, pretty powerful, you know, is if you thought you were going to silence him with that, this will be my my cries my tears will be will be the battle cry yes that that you'll hear around the world and she's not wrong no she's done that happened in the first hour yeah you know um but yeah you just take the politics out of it take it take all of it out of it and it's a it's it's it's a father yes that you know that loved his children and his family and his wife and just you know, and was committed to the things that he, you know, was so passionate about.

1:50:47Tucker Carlson:And all he asked people to do was, you know, just debate me, you know. And he set the example of showing up that prepared, you know, and challenging others to be equally as prepared, you know. And even if they weren't, even if they stumbled or fumbled or didn't, couldn't get their thoughts or, you know, didn't look the part or whatever, he never demeaned, he never belittled, he never criticized, he didn't do any of that stuff. He wasn't there to make fun of people. He was, he was there to inspire. He was there to, you know, maybe just create just a, even just the tiniest little spark of something for someone to maybe feel something a different way.

1:51:30And, and, and that cost him his life. Really?

1:51:36Charlie Sheen:You don't want to live in that country where that happens.

1:51:39Tucker Carlson:No.

1:51:43Tucker Carlson:And it does, you know, it makes people that are in the, you know, that have to be in the public for their professions. You know, it's like, do, you know, I'm sure a lot of people are feeling that, you know, that there may be a little more censorship, you know, personal censorship, you know. Of course. Yeah. Like, whoa, that's, that's what the deep end looks like now. I think I better just stay in the kiddie pool for a minute, you know.

1:52:18Charlie Sheen:There's no question. Yeah. And like everything else bad, it divides people from each other. So all of a sudden, you know, people don't want to be near each other. You know, it causes physical separation.

1:52:28Tucker Carlson:Right.

1:52:29Charlie Sheen:Which is hell. It's what we do to prisoners.

1:52:32Tucker Carlson:It's what we do to prisoners. Interesting.

1:52:34Charlie Sheen:I think. Yeah. You don't want to be shut in alone.

1:52:38Tucker Carlson:No.

1:52:39Charlie Sheen:That's the worst thing. And this just divides. It makes people suspicious, makes them hate their neighbor. Everything about it is evil. and I think it's just important to say that.

1:52:52All right.

1:52:53Charlie Sheen:So I want to end, I never do this, but I just really believe in it. I want to end on a product testing moment.

1:53:00Tucker Carlson:Amazing.

1:53:01Charlie Sheen:I want to do that because as noted, you know, I don't drink and I'm happy with that. And I've discovered a product called Athletic Non-Alcoholic Beer, which has convinced me that non-alcoholic beer can be amazing.

1:53:13Tucker Carlson:I discovered the same product.

1:53:15Charlie Sheen:Athletic. So I just, there was such a stigma, you know, 23 years sober, I never had a non-alcoholic beer because I'm straight. And then they sent me this and I was like, wow, that's incredible. Just the taste. So now I'm like all about non-alcoholic beer. Sure. It's like the greatest thing ever. Sure. And it doesn't make you as fat as other things that I like actually turns out, right?

1:53:34Tucker Carlson:Right. Yeah, for sure not. Yeah.

1:53:36Charlie Sheen:And so you have a non-alcoholic beer. I do.

1:53:40Tucker Carlson:I do. And I'm not a spokesperson for this. I'm a co-founder.

1:53:45Charlie Sheen:And a consumer, I assume.

1:53:46Tucker Carlson:Yes. Yeah. Because, you know, quitting, you know, booze eight years ago that, you know, I always loved beer, still like beer. And, you know, tried like you did pretty much all the non-Alex that were out there. And I'm not here to shit on any of them. But they taste like urine. A lot of them do. Not that I would know. But the good ones are good. They're not, for me, they're not great. And I thought, well, how can I affect this? How can I, you know, how can I make this better? Not just for myself, but for the world at large, you know? Yeah. And so I aligned with three companies in partnership with Silent Spirits, with Ryan Perry, who's the gentleman that was with me today.

1:54:41Tucker Carlson:Yeah, great guy. With our brewery partner is Harpoon out of Boston. Wow. And our distribution is zero proof. Yeah. And so, but unlike, you know, just being like invited into a finished product and being the pitch man, which would be the normal thing for a celebrity to do or, sorry, an actor, right? I've been working on this as long and as passionately as I have with the book and the doc. And it was interesting because kind of the mantra in my house with my kids and excited about the things I was doing, it was always book, doc, beer, book, doc, beer. These three things were happening at the same time and were evolving at the same pace.

1:55:31Tucker Carlson:And then we didn't realize until this tour actually started that we got to a place where we can start taking orders like first week of October and shipping through e-commerce a couple weeks after that. So this isn't like...

1:55:51Charlie Sheen:Because it has no ethanol, you can ship it.

1:55:52Tucker Carlson:Exactly. Yes. And this is something that I was in on the development of this and in on every stage of building the recipe. And I'm not a beer expert. I'm an expert on what I like and what I know to be, you know, the different levels of quality, you know. So, and they were really relying on me as not just a co-founder, but a consumer, you know? And it's, there's another thing that's kind of cool is that just during this eight years, the amount of people that I'll see at a restaurant or a ball game or just on the street, they'll come up and say, man, I always wanted to have a drink with you. And, you know, I'm glad that you're sober, but I'm sad that we can't do that.

1:56:46Tucker Carlson:Now we can. I love that. Now we can have a drink together.

1:56:49Charlie Sheen:I feel that way. And so I'm going to taste it. Okay. Do you mind? Cool. This is Wild AF. I guess you can fill in the acronym as you so desire. Alcohol-free or whatever that might stand for. All right. Now you can tell I've been off my game a little bit because I totally screwed up the head. All right. There's going to be some foam slurping at the beginning. That's all right. years. That's all right. I'm barely German.

1:57:20Charlie Sheen:So that's great.

1:57:22Tucker Carlson:Thank you.

1:57:22Charlie Sheen:That's excellent.

1:57:23Tucker Carlson:Thank you.

1:57:25Charlie Sheen:That just tastes like beer.

1:57:27Tucker Carlson:Well, it is beer. It's actual. No, I mean, it's actual beer just without the alcohol, you know.

1:57:32Charlie Sheen:So what you realize when you have it is that, and I drank beer, you know, in the morning for years and really enjoyed it. But it was the alcohol that I was looking for, but it was also the alcohol that made it not that great.

1:57:47Tucker Carlson:Right, right, right.

1:57:47Charlie Sheen:So when you take the alcohol out, the hops really come to the fore. Sure. And hops are just an amazing plant, kind of a stringent. I think they're a relative of cannabis, actually, which I don't smoke, but still, aren't they? Hops related to? I think so. Marahuna, yeah. Well, whatever it is, they have this really flowery, interesting taste that's a little bit biting that offsets the inherent sweetness of the malt. But they're kind of like overwhelmed by the ethanol in a normal beer, but they come out in this. Do you feel that?

1:58:17Tucker Carlson:I do. I do. And it's, you know, it's a craft lager.

1:58:24Charlie Sheen:Yeah.

1:58:25Tucker Carlson:And what I, the model that I was urging, you know, not to get deep into the science of it. Please do. Well, I don't have the, I don't know the science. Just make it up. No, I was like, you know.

1:58:40Charlie Sheen:You're using nuclear technology for the first time ever in the brewery process.

1:58:44Tucker Carlson:That's what we're doing. Yeah. No, it's just like, you know, what, like, our target is, you know, like, what's a great beer that is commonly served at a ballgame, you know? and I want something that, you know, not mirrors that. Obviously, it eclipses that. It feels just a little more full, a little fuller, you know. And real, not thin, watery.

1:59:19Charlie Sheen:Should we give it the spaniel test?

1:59:21Tucker Carlson:What is that?

1:59:23Charlie Sheen:Oh, the spaniel test. I'm just going to let them, I've got my spaniels. Come here. And I'm going to let them Okay, so smell that Yeah

1:59:38Tucker Carlson:Is that a pass or a fail?

1:59:40Charlie Sheen:No, no, that's a full pass Now, this is a legit grouse dog Okay We went yesterday She's got an amazing nose And if this dog doesn't like something It's immediately obvious Oh No, she liked it Okay, good I'm not going to let her have any because God knows where that tongue has been. Exactly. And also, you know, there's obviously a tie-in with Wild,

2:00:06Tucker Carlson:with Wild Thing. That's why the badge is the profile of that character, which is kind of cool. But Wild can also be, you know, connected to how people perceive me for so long.

2:00:20Charlie Sheen:Why do they perceive you that way, do you think? I mean... Just a little Charlie Sheen joke there for a minute.

2:00:29Tucker Carlson:Yeah, yeah, yeah. The universe of evidence, perhaps. Yeah.

2:00:34Charlie Sheen:It was fairly overwhelming. There wasn't much debate about that.

2:00:37Tucker Carlson:Yeah, exactly. But yeah, it's alcohol-free. It's as...

2:00:42Charlie Sheen:So when you drink this in the morning, you feel no guilt at all?

2:00:45Tucker Carlson:None, none.

2:00:47Charlie Sheen:Because I got to be honest, I legit enjoyed beer in the morning. I mean, it's just a...

2:00:52Tucker Carlson:I did too. Yeah. I did too, for sure.

2:00:54Charlie Sheen:Yeah. Yeah. And of course, I haven't done that in a long time. But this is a way to get your breakfast beer in with no downside.

2:01:01Tucker Carlson:Exactly. And I started drinking it. And all I had to work with for the longest time was the prototypes. But they would send it to me as it kept evolving. And I was drinking it during workouts.

2:01:13Charlie Sheen:What were the other people present thinking, I wonder? There's Charlie Sheen. He's drinking beer during a workout. It does seem like a tiger blood thing.

2:01:20Tucker Carlson:I was just working out in my bedroom alone. Yeah. It wasn't like in a gym. But I heard somewhere years ago that the German weightlifters used to chug beer. Of course. To get all the carbs and stay. Arnold Schwarzenegger did it. Oh, he did? Okay.

2:01:33Charlie Sheen:Yeah, in that famous movie of him from the 70s, he's like drinking a giant stein in beer.

2:01:36Tucker Carlson:In Pumping Iron, yeah. Pumping Iron. Wow. Okay. Okay, yeah. So I just do it on a rower. Actually? On a rower, yeah.

2:01:43Charlie Sheen:On like an herb thing?

2:01:45Tucker Carlson:Yeah, you know, like when you're on a rower. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not while I'm actually like holding the can and rowing, but I would pause and have some have some pops and then...

2:01:54Charlie Sheen:Would you ever shoot like bedroom video of that and put it online?

2:01:59Tucker Carlson:I mean, I didn't. I don't... I try to shoot as little bedroom video as possible, you know?

2:02:08Charlie Sheen:This is the new Charlie Sheen.

2:02:12Tucker Carlson:But no, I think people are going to really respond to this. Well, I already have. Oh, good.

2:02:18Charlie Sheen:So has my dog.

2:02:20Tucker Carlson:Anyway, Charlie Sheen, thank you for

2:02:21Charlie Sheen:taking all this time. This is amazing. It's been great.

2:02:24Tucker Carlson:Yeah, no, it's an honor to be here.

2:02:26Charlie Sheen:Thank you. It's an honor to have you. Thank you very much. Awesome.

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