Dave Smith: Mossad, WWII Myths, FBI Cover-Ups, and Trump’s Critical Next Move in Iran

28:29And look, it's very clear. Again, the reaction to Daryl is the proof of the claim. Like what is this? If somebody were to say, you know, this is how you find out what the national religion really is. You know, I could sit here and trash Thomas Jefferson for raping his slaves. It doesn't matter what you say about him. It doesn't matter. This isn't going to generate any outrage at all, you know. In fact, it might generate some applause from different quarters. And so, but you talk about this and it's very, very different. And then, as you've seen, as we've all seen, it's used to justify every subsequent war.

29:07I mean, like everybody is just by authoritarianism. Yeah, that's right. Everybody is Adolf Hitler. I've lived through the, you know, it's Saddam Hussein was Adolf Hitler. Noriega was Adolf Hitler. Bashar al-Assad is Adolf Hitler. Vladimir Putin's Adolf Hitler. You're Adolf Hitler. Nick Fuentes is Adolf Hitler. Like every, every time they want to smear someone, that's the smear they go with. Donald Trump got the same treatment. and anytime you oppose a war, well, you're Neville Chamberlain. If I think like, hey, we should just put in writing that we'll never bring Ukraine into NATO because man, this is causing all these problems.

29:45Okay, Neville Chamberlain, you would have just given Czechoslovakia. It's like, dude, that's not the only lesson in history. The only lesson in history is not always go with aggression, never go with de-escalation. But so that's kind of what this has been turned into. And I do think... But I would just say big picture, if it was such a victory, why are all the winners falling apart less than 100 years later? Yeah. Yeah, that's a fair point. I don't... Again, shut up. You're pro-Hitler for the fifth time. Not pro-Hitler in any sense. Well, to quote... But what's the answer to that question? Well, there's a brilliant philosopher named Rosie Perez.

30:24and in the film white men can't jump she said sometimes when you win you really lose yeah and you know it is it is such a simple but very very true statement and there is something about well isn't it kind of interesting that the united states of america started as the experiment in restrained government right like there had really never been a government that was created that was so restrained. And the whole idea of it was like, we're going to take the power of a king and then we're going to scatter that amongst three different branches in the federal government. And the federal government really only oversees all these state governments that have their own autonomy.

31:04And we are these United States of America. And even as we became more centralized, obviously the Articles of Confederation got overthrown and the Constitution gets put in. And then, you know, but even say like, if you look after this, from the end of the Civil War, this was always the best stuff about like Milton Friedman books and stuff, but in this part, I really think those Chicago guys got it right, that if you look from the end of the Civil War, so like 1865 to around say 1910, in this period of time, try to imagine that this was our government. The US government, the federal government spent maybe like one and a half or 2 % of the national income, a tiny amount of sped or there was no mass federal regulation or anything like that there was no central bank there was no income tax just try to imagine like this was truly in the closest to a real experiment in free market capitalism that humanity had ever seen and the result of that was the biggest economic expansion in human history the greatest raising of the of the lot and life of the average person you know like where the average person could actually have a pretty nice life and you could work at the factory and your wife didn't have to work and you owned a house and you sent your kids to college and you drove a couple cars you played poker on the weekends with your buddy like you had a good life and if you look at the United States of America today it is the most powerful government in the history of the world like somehow this thing that started as an experiment in the smallest government became the biggest government that the world's ever known and so there's almost something where well what happens is these free markets create so much prosperity that there's so much more of a tax base.

32:49And now the political class can tax you more and more and more, and you're still living a pretty good life, even though they're getting fat off of you. You know what I mean? And so similarly, sometimes something like after World War II, you see this with America, and then you really see it after the collapse of the Soviet Union, where it's like, because you win, you get so much power. But as Lord Atkins said, that power tends to corrupt. And so you get all this power, but then it totally corrupts your own soul. And I think that's kind of the story of America. And I think it's the story of our lives.

33:23I mean, the number of men I know who've gotten what they wanted, what they worked for, the job, the exit, you know, sale of whatever they built, all of a sudden they win and then they fall apart. I've seen that so much. I've felt it in my own life, by the way, for sure. You know, easy success is not good for you at all. Struggle is good for you. And so I wonder if the United States was hollowed out by its own victory, this loss. And unfortunately, I think we can say already it's hard to imagine getting out of this without being diminished. Yeah. I mean, what is a victory here? I mean, you know, it's also a terrible situation where victory might be the worst case scenario.

34:06I mean, like, you know, like victory, like if the whole goal is to topple the regime, you're like, OK, but every other time we've toppled the regime in this neck of the woods, it's led to migrant crises and death and terrorism. You can't topple a regime in the Persian Gulf because the world's energy supply needs to move through it. You have to extract it, refine it, make it into petrochemicals, do whatever you want, fertilizer, do whatever you want in the Persian Gulf. Then you have to get it out of the Persian Gulf. So that means you have to have a controlling authority. You have to have strong governments there or else some rebel group, Houthis with drones, will shut the whole thing down.

34:44You have to have. You can't have chaos in Iran. Yeah, they call it the Persian Gulf for a reason. Exactly. You can call it the Arabian Gulf. The other half is Persian. It doesn't matter. Chaos in the Persian Gulf means no energy or fertilizer from the Persian Gulf, period. So you're going to piracy there. So the option to that is keeping an Iranian regime in place. And that means that Iran is more powerful than it was when the war started. This is also obvious, unless you nuke them, which is, I think, an option. And then you set off a chain reaction that, you know, is the worst thing imaginable.

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36:34Well, there is a, I think sometimes things need to get really bad before they get better. You know, things need to get bad so that people wake up even more. There's no question people have woken up a lot, but maybe people just need to get angrier, you know? And I don't know. I don't know what the result of this is. I'm trying to see this in the fullness of history and God's plan, but I just, because it feels like such a disaster it's affecting my sleep. I love America. I have kids. I don't want this to happen. I'm not in control, obviously. But I do think that you're often surprised by the downstream results of things.

37:10I think people who return from Normandy would be shocked by the condition of the United States and Great Britain 80 years later. They are shocked. Have you ever seen them interviewed? Some 100-year-old guys like, we died for this? Yeah. No, and it's totally, I mean, talk about just disgracing their sacrifice. It's the greatest disgrace. Our self-abasement is an insult to their sacrifice on our behalf. But I wonder if the opposite isn't also true, that maybe in your defeat there are things that, I know this is true for me. Every time I've gotten sick or gotten fired, like I just, I understand the world better and I become more joyful and stronger.

37:49Do you feel that? Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, many times in my life, and yeah, you learn a lot more from your losses. Yeah, your defeats are actually your victories in retrospect. That's right. But the problem is just this is, man, we're just playing with fire with this thing because it's so dangerous. What worries you most? Well, I guess I'd say, number one, what we're doing to those people over there, I mean, I think is just horrible. and I don't say this as like, I'm not trying to like virtue signal that I care so much more than other people, but like when your government takes your money and just starts slaughtering people in poor countries compared to us, you know, it's just so profoundly wrong.

38:39What you do to others will be done to you. That's a physics principle. You can't get away from that. So that's just true. Well, imagine like there was a guy who was like a convicted pedophile and he had molested a bunch of Iraqi children or a bunch of Iranian children. And then you were like, well, I'm going to have him babysit my kids. He only does it over there. You know what I mean? Like, he only, you're like, what? No, dude, he's hurt children. You can't let them anywhere near your children. Okay, well, these same monsters in government are the ones who are ruling over me and my family and my country.

39:10And the idea that you just go kill, like, you know, I said this on Rogan's show the other day about the school that we had, where he killed like 165 or 170 little girls. And then people, you know, give me, those numbers haven't been verified. That's just the claim of the Iranian government. He goes, well, our government's not denying it. And in fact, they did an investigation and concluded it was almost certainly us. It was a tomahawk missile. What's the question here? We know where this came from. The only question left is like, who gave it that coordinates or did it miss or was that intentional, whatever.

39:43But like kill a whole bunch of eight-year-old girls. I mean, Jesus, man. Is there anything more evil you could do than that? So just on a basic human level, there's like, this is horrible. Anyone who would do that, I think it was clearly accidental. But I also think, having done a lot of accidental things, it's essential to apologize for it. And anyone who doesn't apologize for it's a dangerous person. If you do that to them, you'll do it to my kids. Yes, and it also stretches the definition of accidental a little bit. Because even if very specifically, like we were trying to hit this building, but instead we hit this building.

40:19And there's a point I've been making largely through Israel's destruction of Gaza, which was not that at all. They were just leveling the place. But you go, look, man, you start dropping bombs on people, you start blowing things up, you know innocent people are gonna end up dying in that. So in that sense, it is intentional. And maybe you didn't mean to hit that exact target or kill that many people. But I'm just saying, If you blew up a building that you suspected somebody else was in, but then it turned out that there were a bunch of little kids there, it's still a pretty profound crime. But then, of course, on top of that, I really worry about getting trapped into a broader war, a wider war.

41:09I'm not saying that I think this is going to be like Iraq or Afghanistan. I think already this is very different than Iraq and Afghanistan. Iraq and Afghanistan did not have the ability to do what Iran is doing right now, for one. Number two, I just don't think it's going to be that. I don't think, I think it would be more the Libya or Syria model than the Iraq or Afghanistan model, which did require a small amount of ground forces. So we used head chopping bin Ladenites in both of those cases and put the bin Ladenites in power in Syria. but just to be clear our country would not survive another Iraq or Afghanistan there's no United States of America coming out of that we don't have a 20 year catastrophic ground invasion in us like it will bankrupt the country it will destroy the country culturally so that's a very scary thing we don't have in the launch of the global war on terrorism we were coming out of the 1990s This was a different country in the 1990s, you know, and anyone who was alive then knows this.

42:16Different people lived here. Yes, yes. Different people, different culture, different economic realities, different military realities. Now, then the other thing that I really, really worry about with all of this is that we've never really had, we've never dealt with a full like Shiite jihad war against the West. You know, our beef was always with the Sunni radicals. Those were the terrorists. We had to worry about the Al Qaeda and ISIS and stuff like that. And that was quite a big problem. You know, we we had a lot of terrorist attacks in America and in Europe, particularly ISIS inspired attacks, Al Qaeda as well.

42:56and you know so i've i've kind of called out some of these some of these people i'll do it again here because they're they're like some of the biggest frauds in the country these like pretend intellectuals like sam harris and gad sad and guys like this who have spent a career uh demonizing muslims their entire career has been talking about what irrational violent people muslims are how awful the religion is and and you know and look there's been some points that i agree with them on. If someone writes a cartoon about Muhammad, you don't have the right to kill them. Sorry. You want to be in the West.

43:33These are our rules here. We value free speech and I can make a cartoon about whatever the hell I want to make a cartoon about. Okay. But if you spent your whole career arguing how violent and irrational the Muslims are, what does killing an Ayatollah mean? You know, that's not just a political figure. You murder an Ayatollah and his entire family, And we've already had a couple terrorist attacks over here that at least seem like there was the shooting in Austin, Texas that came like the day after we launched the war. And the guy was wearing like an Allah Akbar Tisha. I'm assuming that might be related.

44:08And so, you know, then you have this real issue of like, there's, unfortunately, in the old, like, controlled American media and all the, you know, all the people like Mark Levin and all these guys, when they talk to their audience, whatever audience they got left, and they always love to talk about how a ram chants death to America, you know, which they do. And I'd like it if they stopped doing that. It's not the nicest chant. But none of them ever even try to say, to even approach the question of why. Why do they chant death to America? Why do they hate us so much? And this was always - Well, they hate us for our freedoms.

44:49Yes, right. So the older you get, you realize how fast everything can change. One day everything is fine, it's great, and the next day things are not great at all. That's just the nature of it. But if you're realistic about that, you have to think about your family. If something happened to you, what would happen to them. The problem is getting life insurance is not only kind of depressing, it's a huge hassle. Medical exams, paperwork, waiting weeks for approval. A lot of people just don't want to deal with it, so they don't deal with it. And that's not the right answer at all. You have an obligation to think through what would happen if you're not here.

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45:53This was after, this is so funny, that it is so funny that that was, funny in a dark way, but that that was actually the question. I remember, I was 18 when 9-11 happened. I remember asking that question with all sincerity. And that was actually the national conversation. That was the first question before it got answered with they hit when 9-11 happened. The average Joe six pack American went, why do they hate us? That's how ignorant we were of our own position in the world. We didn't even know there was a beef. You know, what are we talking? We thought Bill Clinton was the time of peace and prosperity.

46:26That's what Americans considered that time. The time of peace. Iraqis did not consider that a time of peace. hundreds of thousands of them were getting killed due to the blockade clinton's bombing campaign it wasn't peace in serbia you know what i mean it wasn't like there but to us it was like oh not has little wars they didn't really mean anything you know but it wasn't now all you got to do is ask that question and i'm sure it's almost like implicit in the mark levin world that well why do they hate us well i don't know because they're crazy dirka dirka people and they hate us you You know, there are Islamo-fascists.

46:56I don't know. That's what they do. They hate. But if you ask Iranians, and not the ones who are, you know, paid by Mossad to promote wars, but like if you – they'll tell you very quickly why they hate us. And the whole beef, right, goes back to 1953. We overthrew their government. We installed a dictator who they did not like very much, who was not very kind to his political opponents, to put it mildly. And then the other big thing that they point out all the time is in 1980, Saddam Hussein invaded Iraq. Now, a lot of people from my generation remember this because this is actually what the neocons would, they would often like vaguely cite this when they were trying to push the war against Iraq.

47:42They're like, he used chemical weapons against civilians. You're like, yeah. What they leave out is that they were backing him when he did that. They facilitated the sale of those chemical weapons to him and they backed and gave the green light for Saddam Hussein to invade the country. And so, you know, Iranians remember that like they remember that there was I think 500 or 600 ,000 Iranians died in that war. Like they remember this very well. By the way, another lesson from that war is they never surrendered. even after taking losses like that. These Shiites are not playing around when it comes to matters like that.

48:19They fought and fought and fought. And so anyway, I say all that just to say that it's like these things do inspire hatred and they inspire hatred for generations and generations. When cause and effect is real? Yeah, it turns out. In 2002, a letter emerged written by Osama bin Laden, who of course was then still alive, that he had written right after 9-11 in Kandahar before he fled to Tora Bora, and it came out a year later in the Wall Street Journal, and I worked at CNN at the time, and I read it on the air to answer that question. What is this about? Why did he do this? And the letter, which briefly became famous before it was pulled off the internet, said, you know, I'm mad that you have troops in Saudi, where Mecca and Medina are, and I'm mad about your support for Israel, and that's why I did this.

49:04I wasn't trying to justify 9-11. It can't be justified, in my opinion. That's right. but I think it's important to know why things happen because you don't want them to happen again well a group of rabbis got together and called me an anti-Semite which I wasn't then and I'm not now and tried to get me fired from my job I'll never forget that and CNN called me the lawyer called me they're all mad at you and I'm like I wasn't attacking anybody of course I just think it's more than Americans don't know I think they've been prevented from knowing that actions have reactions. Well, that's why the term blowback that was coined by the CIA and what they described it as was it's not just like we do a thing and then there's a reaction to it.

49:56It's that we do a covert thing and then there's a reaction to it. And then the American people have no idea what this is even in response to. It's just like, whoa, out of nowhere, these guys attacked us. And, you know, when that - But we're going to need a police state to protect ourselves from the blowback of this war. I mean, that's a real concern. That's the problem. Yeah, that's a real concern. We're so vulnerable. I mean, this country is wide open. And all of our infrastructure, our energy infrastructure, our food, our water, all of it's unguarded. And the only way to protect ourselves from the inevitable blowback, the Shia terrorism that we're going to get, of course, after killing the riotola is going to be to turn this into a surveillance state even more than it is yeah and and of course also on top of that coming off of the biden years where we don't even know who's who's here we have no like i mean it's just the the mix of these policies like the mix of the of having forever wars and open borders has just got to be the the and a welfare state Yeah, I know.

50:58I mean, like, just throw everything in and a drug war on top of that, too, and a drug war so that drugs are illegal. There's a black market. The gangs want to smuggle the drugs and like every single policy on top of it just makes this situation like so much worse. But, you know, when that when the Osama bin Laden's letter to America went viral on TikTok before it was many, many, many years later. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For my aborted attempt to bring it to the country. Yes, to be clear, this was written in 2002. It was like a couple years ago when it went super viral on TikTok. And all the young leftists were like sharing it.

51:30And they were going like, oh my God, look at this. Turns out now, of course, they're leftists. So they always think too collectively, right? And so I saw a bunch of people going, turns out he was right. Or he was the good guy. And you're like, no, no, no. That is not the takeaway from this. It's like, you know, there was that one time the guy, Hassan Piker, who's like a lefty, like a streamer. And he had said that America deserved 9-11. And that was like what got him in a lot of trouble for it. And it's like, but no, stop speaking like a leftist. We're not collectively, we're individuals. And the individuals who had nothing to do with these policies did not have it coming.

52:10Having breakfast at Windows in the World and get killed? Yeah, yeah. How do you deserve it? No, you don't do it. But the whole point, now what Osama bin Laden said, I don't think this was in the letter to America. I think it was in, it might have been, it was either that or in his declaration of war. He had two declarations of war against America also. But what he said is that civilians are fair game because you vote for, you know, you vote the Bill Clintons and the George Bushes in who slaughter all of our children. And so you're fair game. Now, that's the logic of Osama bin Laden, the psychopathic, you know, terrorist.

52:41And the whole point of why we're against all this shit is because we reject that. We don't agree with that. And you know who else used that same logic? Every goddamn Zionist who said they elected Hamas in Gaza. By the way, they don't even have regular elections in Gaza. They had one election 20 years ago where Hamas won with pluralities. But that was enough for them to say. To kill their kids in your conscience. And so, no, the whole point is that, no, you don't have the right to take vengeance on innocent people. That is the standard of civilization. I have said that pretty consistently for the past couple of years, and I thought that was just a baseline understanding that everyone in America knew and believed.

53:26I thought that was the whole point of America. That's what civilization is. You can't punish the innocent. Right. And that turns out to be incredibly anti-Semitic. I didn't know that by the way I've never up until recently all the Jews I knew were 100 % on board with that I mean I can just like hear a rabbi going you can't kill the innocent amen brother except in this one but now it's like all of a sudden these people you know I don't know I don't think it's about any specific group in fact by definition it's not it's a human standard to which we should all be held and do our best to hold others you can't kill the innocent Yeah.

54:04And also it's not, you know, it's not about one specific group because. Well, by definition, it's not about one specific group. It's about all humans. It's also just not, you know, and this is the problem where when people try to make it about the Jews and it's so weird, the dynamic, because I watch you, you literally bend over backward to say that it's not about the Jews as much as possible. because it's not. To the point, and as someone who's like a Jewish fan of yours, I find myself going like, you could stop making that. Like, you've said it enough, you know what I mean? But you do every opportunity.

54:37You go, I don't believe in blood guilt. It's not because I'm afraid of Jews at all. No, you won't be clear. I'm not afraid of anybody. It's because I think it's the standard that we have to uphold. Well, also, everyone is insisting that that's what you're really saying. I don't even care about that. And so you want to go, no, I'm not saying that. I just, that's why I've been defending Muslims. It's not because I'm Muslim or taking money from Qatar. too late now we were in our economy but it's because I think these are human rights bestowed by God and they apply to every person because they're inherent in every person because every person is created in the image of God that's the point I'm trying to yeah and I completely agree with you I also think it's just frankly inaccurate I mean it's not look I know I saw one poll today that said 60 % of American Jews support the war in Iran which hey that's a lot higher than the general population, but that means 40 % of them don't.

55:29You know what I mean? And so like, that's a huge, huge percentage of them. I think a third of Jews in New York voted for this mom, Donnie guy. Now I'm annoyed with them for other reasons because he's a crazy socialist, but they're clearly not on board with the Israel lobbies plan here. And then of course, as you've done a better job of exposing than anyone I've ever seen, there's a lot of like Like Ted Cruz's and Mike Huckabee's out there who, as you, I think, correctly pointed out are different animals, right? Like Ted Cruz is a cynical lying politician. Mike Huckabee is like a true believer of sorts.

56:00I'm not sure which is worse. They're both pretty rough and both totally humiliated themselves when they when you interviewed them. But there's also like the point is that the Israel lobby encompasses a lot of non-Jews. And then there's a lot of Jews. There's the Max Blumenthal's and Norman Finkelstein's and Glenn Greenwald's. So to just say it's like this group, you're missing the point entirely. Well, I would say that the advocates for the war are primarily responsible for that. And speaking of blowback, speaking of blowback, I mean, it's hardly my job to defend Jewish Americans, but I want to defend all Americans.

56:38And I definitely want to defend the principle that we should be judged on our own terms, not by people who look like us or we're related to. I think that's the most important thing. But, I mean, I do think... You often go, oh, anti-Semitism's on the rise. I agree with that. Yeah. And I wish it wasn't true. But that is absolutely real. And I know that I'm blamed for it. Okay. But I'm against it. I think you're one of the... I'm really against it. I know people will mock me for saying this, but I genuinely think it's true. I think you are one of the leading fighters against anti-Semitism in the country.

57:17I think so. And I think I do what I can. to be that as well. I think if you really want to see a decrease in Jew hatred, then I think maybe it would be good to have Jewish people saying, hey, I am totally against this. I am not for this. But also it is, and I'm not defending collectivism of any stripe, but it is very predictable and it is just human nature. You know, if you have... That's why it's so scary. Because it is human nature. That's exactly right. If you, if there, let's say you just have a neighborhood okay there's like a neighborhood all things being equal or whatever and a bunch of black uh teenagers uh black young men are going around and mugging and beating up people do you think anti-black racism is going to go up go down or stay the same crime causes racism this is right is that for years now shut up yeah what now is it fair to the black guy who didn't mug or beat up anyone that there's no it's not fair to him it's also a predictable and frankly at times an understandable response from someone who was the victim of getting mugged and beat up and so if you're you know if you're a black person who's like in the public eye it might be reasonable at that point to go hey guys we gotta stop mugging people and beating them up otherwise they're gonna hate us and the way i always looked at it this this always just came very natural to me like this was so obvious.

58:47I'm Jewish. I love Jewish people. I love Jewish culture. It's who I am. It's a big part of me. And I think some of the best things about me I got from Jewish culture, valuing intellectual curiosity and family and hard work and humor and a lot of things that really define who I am are very much a part of Jewish culture. Total refusal to go along with whatever else is saying. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Also just whining about things, complaining, fetching. You know, this is all part of me. It's what I do for a living. It turned it into a pretty nice career. But that being said, it's like I just look at it, I go, okay, so we're, all the stories I've heard from my family and our history are how we were brutally oppressed here and killed here and kicked out of here and relocated here and then we came to America.

59:38Now, I have grown up in the United States of America This is where my kids live. It's where they're going to grow up. As you say all the time, that's the only thing that matters to me is that my kids have the best life I can give them. Literally the only thing that matters to me. Everything is a very distant second from that. Um, and I go, okay, so I'm, we're 2 % of the population in America. We are by all objective standards, thriving. We're doing great. We're not an oppressed minority in America. We're doing better than the average American is doing substantially. And I've never once, I mean, I don't know, I've had like people on Twitter say things to me or something like that, but there's never once been an obstacle put in my way because I was Jewish.

1:00:21I never couldn't go to this school or couldn't get this job or couldn't do anything like that. And I've had a really great life here. In fact, probably the most anti-Semitism I've ever dealt with is from the pro-Israel people who call me like a capo every day because I don't support another reckless war. Capos with the Jewish influencers. Jewish collaborators with the Nazis. In the ghettos. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. So it was a really nasty thing to call somebody. But whatever. That's the game we're in. So, so my perspective is like, okay, so you're telling me the whole world treated us like crap.

1:00:58We've come here to America where we've been just very successful and treated very well. My default position is to love the country for that. Like, oh, well, then we should be really grateful to this country. That should be the attitude. Not going around lecturing people about whether they've been to the museum about our suffering from decades ago. Like, what is that? It just seems like such a and and look again. I'm not a lot of the critics of Israel are left-wingers I'm not coming at this from a left-wing perspective. I'm a crotchety old right-winger like I don't agree with that I'm sitting here and saying if we if any self-respecting conservative or self-respecting right-winger saw any other minority group Complaining about their mistreatment in another continent in another country in another century you'd go hey shut up get over it pull yourself up by your bootstraps that's like what i'm saying and then by the way with jews like oh you already did you pulled yourself up by your bootstraps so like what are we even talking about here why and and i don't think i i don't think like obsessing over past trauma is always the correct answer and certainly not insisting that everybody else suffer over or or obsess over your past trauma.

1:02:15So I just always, it was always very natural to me that like, I'm on team America. I'm rooting for this country to succeed. The country that fought the Nazis. Yeah. By the way, lost a lot of Americans fighting the Nazis. Why are you lecturing me about the Nazis? Yeah. My country fought them. And to almost anybody, like anybody at Fox News, now again, maybe I talk about like Mark Levin and Fox News and these guys like too much, like they really are irrelevant, but I guess it's just that I'm stuck in the old, you know, on the age I am. And so to me, it's still like, Hey, you're, this is Fox. But any one of them would completely agree with me on this.

1:02:52If we were talking about any other group of people, you know, if we were talking about any other group of people talking about victim hood or any of that, you know, if you were, if they were, um, if there was some black, you know, a guy talking about how racist this country is because of slavery, they would have made your exact point they'd go we fought a war to end slavery hundreds of thousands of us died fight you know what i mean like they would they would right away even here so back off yeah right right yeah no i i couldn't agree more and and underneath all of this and the reason that i really do worry that the country is going to become like openly tribal uh and that leads to violence every time is that the a lot of the same people who are upset about the rise in anti-semitism which again I think is real I mean I can tell it's real and I don't like it either are the ones who abetted all the anti-white hate for so long which is still not being addressed the Trump administration sued Harvard over its anti-Jewish discrimination which is like what it's deranged what a slap in the face to white people well it's unbelievable oh my god and um and of course the anti-white hate is still totally embedded at every level of our government and in business and most famously in schools.

1:04:04So that's like an attempt to hurt people on the basis of their race and no one has said anything about it. And my point is these are either universal principles, they apply to every human being endowed with human rights by the creator, or they're just preferences. It's just your tribe against mine and then I'm allowed to fight your tribe for the benefit of my tribe. And it just devolves into Rwanda. So like, I think we could diffuse a lot of this if the head of the ADL would be like, I'm every bit as opposed to anti-white hate as I am to anti-Jewish hate. We could all just agree that it's all wrong, then we decelerate.

1:04:38But until then, how can I take you seriously? Yeah, and I think along with that is we have to stop fighting wars on behalf of Israel, and we have to have some type of separation. I mean, I'm not saying that we should be enemies with Israel or that we should go to war with Israel or anything like that. But the it just the relationship, the special relationship between the U.S. and Israel is so freaking weird. And now in this new media environment, it's been exposed. I don't think you can put that toothpaste back in the tube. No, you can't. It is something that I think a lot of people were kind of happy to look the other way about for years.

1:05:25I was. You came on my show. You came to Maine a couple years ago to do something on Ukraine. And Greenwald, too, who I love and have known a long time. And both of you had a moment where you're like, yeah, Israel's probably not. I'm like, ugh. I agree, but I don't want to. I just want to pretend this isn't happening. It's not worth it. I don't want to be denounced by Chabad or whatever. I just don't want to have the fight. Well, you let me or Glenn Greenwald in your door, and that will not be happening. I was part of that. Like it's it's just not worth it. Well look even the in my opinion the greatest living American hero Ron Paul used even he would kind of like try to say it in a gentle way.

1:06:06Like he would go well let's let them fight their own fights and we'll just kind of be over here being non-interventionist because of course on one hand it's like there's a lot of things. First of all, I don't know if people who are listening to this show can appreciate this, but you know this much better than I do. But there was a time, you know, Donald Trump will kind of say this out loud. He'll say that, you know, AIPAC used to totally control Congress and now they don't control them anymore. Like he'll just say it, which is so wild. They give me hundreds of millions of dollars and I do whatever they want.

1:06:38It's like, all right, dude, you're just saying that out loud. I thought that was like an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory, not just something the president says. He said it in the Knesset. Yeah, but the thing is right in the old order before there were podcasts like this And look if you think about like I used to always point to um the example because I thought it was so interesting about Where the technology where social media was is when Bill O 'Reilly was the number one show Yes Fox News the number one show in cable news and at the 8 p.m. Hour You were also the number one show at Fox News the number one show in cable news at the 8 p.m.

1:07:10Hour when they fired Bill O 'Reilly Bill O 'Reilly went from being like one of the biggest voices in the national conversation to being like relegated over to the sidelines who's like you know he still has a show somewhere but he's not like really moving the needle at all. You got bigger than you were there and part of that was who you were, who your audience was but a big part of it was that you had another platform to go right to. I would be fly fishing full time if it weren't for the technology So maybe in that sense maybe the technology you could have just gone and had a happy life. They pulled you back in.

1:07:45But I don't know that people appreciate how much in the old order, in the old days when getting fired took you out of the conversation with Bill O 'Reilly days or whatever before that. Getting the Israel lobby on your back would ruin you. It would absolutely ruin you. And it didn't matter who you were. You could absolutely sleep with the makeup artist. You could not fight with the ADL. That was just it. And there's so much, I mean, whether it's the ADL or the Southern Poverty Law Center or APAC or whatever, the American Enterprise Institute or National Review. I mean, the Israel lobby is like this huge, powerful thing.

1:08:22And back then, I mean, it didn't matter. If you were Pat Buchanan, you're like, dude, I'm Pat Buchanan. I've been in four White Houses. I won the New Hampshire primary. I won the New Hampshire primary. I've been in four different presidential, three or four different presidential administrations, a New York Times bestseller, a fixture in America. I mean, he hosted Crossfire when Crossfire first started. You know, it doesn't matter. They could take you out. They could take Ron Paul. They could take all. And so there was, for many years, almost I feel like a leftover residue of like, you just don't want this fight because, man, is this going to get ugly and you're going to be smeared as every vicious name in the book.

1:09:01But at a certain point it was like, oh, well, you know, you kind of can talk about these things now. And in fact, the people who do talk about them are being rewarded by their viewers because it's refreshing that someone's talking about the thing you weren't allowed to talk about. But now that that has been exposed and the toothpaste can't be put back in the tube, it's too it's just too much. You cannot have it. I know you talk about this a lot. You look at examples like and these examples are countless. countless. You look at Ted Cruz saying to your face, as he said in other places, that the reason he ran for Senate was to be Israel's number one defender.

1:09:38You got Tammy Bruce saying America's the second best country to Israel, kind of tongue in cheek, still a really weird thing for an official from the administration to say. You got Donald Trump saying that Sheldon and now Miriam Adelson give him hundreds of millions of dollars and all they want they come in every day asking for stuff on behalf of a foreign country and he gives it to Which they love more than America Yes, well Sheldon was on tape. Have you seen this? Yes. He was on tape He said his greatest regret in life is that he wore the US military uniform rather than the IDF Uniform now, I'm sorry that is intolerable from any just sane perspective.

1:10:24It's nothing to do with hating Jews or even hating any other country. If people were talking like this about Norway, we'd be like, yo, what are you doing? This isn't Norway. This is America. I agree. And like there's - Move to Norway. Yeah. Like, fine, go ahead. But no, you can't. And then to have, you know, people like Mike Huckabee saying that God promised Lebanon and Saudi Arabia to Netanyahu. Like, I'm sorry, but there's just no, this is simply not how public policymaker, I guess it's not a policymaker, but a politician, an ambassador to this country. You can't be talking this way. This is insane.

1:11:03Like, we don't let anybody just dictate their policy off, God told me to do this. And then a very weird, God told me something on behalf of a foreign country. So I think we're at a point where if and this is kind of my rejoinder to a lot of those, you know, people who call me and you anti-Semi. I guess I'm a self-hating Jew and you're an anti-Semi. Because listen, man, there is a rise of Jew hatred. And if you really do care about that, the only way to combat that is that we got to end this. You know, like the same way we needed a separation of church and state so we don't fight religious wars anymore.

1:11:38We need a separation of the Israel lobby and the United States of America. I think it's tough. I think it's tough. As a non-Israel hater, I don't hate anyone, I'm not going to allow myself to hate anyone, period. But just being as honest as I can be, we're very enmeshed, like more than people understand. Representatives, official and non-official of the Israeli government, throughout the U.S. government, at every single level, state and federal, okay? There's that. In our institutions, that would include the Pentagon and CIA, are biggest and most important. And then there's the question of, what does that mean for Israel?

1:12:13Do they just allow the United States to be like, you're just like, whatever, France now, or Spain, we're going to treat you like an ally, but not a sibling. I think that we get punished for that. People are afraid of Israel. That's the difference between Israel and Spain. Everyone loves Spain. It's great. The Spanish, we can have bases there. You can put missiles there. It's all great. But no one thinks if you pull back aid from Spain, they're going to hurt you, but everyone is afraid of being physically hurt by Israel. Maybe they're overstating it. Maybe they're all anti-Semitic and paranoid.

1:12:47I don't know. I can just tell you from living in D.C. there is a fear of them, real fear. And anyone who says this country is freaking lying. No, it's like saying there's a fear of the intelligence agencies. Like, that's a fact. It's a fact. I think we're pretty out in the open about that now. Yeah. Well, that's right. That's right. And it's, you know, so if that's the case, that it's almost like our leaders are just too afraid to do something about this. Well, of course they're afraid. And I don't know the genesis of that fear. Like maybe, again, maybe they're all just reading the Protocols of Elder Zion.

1:13:23Maybe they're all anti-Semites and they're overstating the influence of Jews or whatever. I mean, that's totally possible. People do make crazy calculations. Maybe there really is a physical threat. But it's not arguable that U.S. policymakers at every level are afraid. This is not all voluntary at all. Yeah. Well, there's something about like the – you know, like Megyn Kelly, I think she was the one who said this. I don't know if she coined the term, but she was the first one I heard say it. But she – I think it was with you where she said the Israel firsters, and that was how she described it.

1:13:57I was like, oh, that's a good – that's a really good term for them. Because, you know, the thing is that, you know, John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt, like they call it the Israel lobby. But then when you say that, a lot of people just think you're talking about AIPAC. But they're not just talking about AIPAC. They're talking about this whole different, all these different organizations and individuals. The Heritage Foundation. Yes, yes. Washington Post. No, everybody. Washington Institute for Near East Policy. And, you know, all of these organizations. And then all these individuals who clearly are here to, that is their number one issue.

1:14:26And the thing I almost resent most about him is like, it's like, just admit that. Just admit that this is what you care about more than anything else. Barry Weiss. Clearly you do, right? Like this is so. I agree. Because then in effect, you are like a foreign spy. You're kind of like an agent for a different government. And the point is that, you know, because people will try to argue the technicalities of this. But the point is that all of the whole global war on terrorism was all a bunch of Israel firsters who pushed the administration into that at every level. You know, this is by the way, you'll you'll like this just because some people don't get this.

1:14:58But you'll so David Worms are who, you know, worked for Dick Cheney and was he's the author of the clean break memo. So he so I talk about this all the time. A lot of different podcasts on yours on Rogan's. I brought up the clean break and how that's what this whole real strategy is. It's what the clean break morphed into is essentially. And you could look at this. David Worms are in Richard Pearl and Douglas Fife wrote the clean break memo to Benjamin Netanyahu in 1996. was first became prime minister for his first term and he had written a book which is worth reading called fighting terrorism very easy read by the way It's a little book that Benjamin Netanyahu had written the year before and essentially The break was from Oslo was from the peace process The break was from Yitzhak Rabin who had now been murdered by a Benjamin Netanyahu fan after Benjamin Netanyahu Really pushed to I mean that's a whole other cat of worms by the way, but I know like if Yitzhak Rabin's wife I believe still blames Benjamin Netanyahu for his death.

1:15:55Many in Israel do. And now there's a lobbying campaign to get the murderer out of prison. So, I mean, he was given anti-Rabin marches and they were holding coffins before he died. They were implying someone should kill this guy. Because he had said, not that he was really ever going to do this, but he had said, we got to find a two-state solution. We got to give the Palestinians their own state and we'll start working toward that. Now, the clean break was the neoconservatives' brilliant idea, the Israel firsters here that Well, no, no, no. See, you got this all wrong. You think you need to make peace with the Palestinians because that's the only way that you'll have you'll normalize relations with the broader Arab world.

1:16:30But no, no, no, no, no. We just got to go topple the broader Arab world and overthrow all those governments. And then you never have to make peace with the Palestinians. OK, so it's essentially a blueprint for greater Israel. And this was their whole strategy pre 9-11. And for regional hegemony. Now, it's not just about controlling the West Bank. It's about controlling the Middle East. That's right. That's right. And so now because we live in this crazy world we live in now, David Wormser did a podcast where he responded to me. Now, from my perspective, I'm little old me, some stand up comedian who just talks about all this stuff.

1:17:08This is David Wormser. This is the guy who's the author of the Clean Break Memo. But to the new Internet world, he has like 300 followers on Twitter. Nobody saw this. Nobody knows about it. But so David works and he's there to debunk my interpretation of the clean break memo. This is the funniest thing I've ever seen in my life. And so the host brings him on to be like, oh, this Dave Smith guy's out here saying that all these wars were about Israel and blah, blah, blah. And this is ridiculous. Right. So why don't you just tell that this is all not true? And his response was he just goes into like a monologue about how Israel is the cradle of civilization and that all of Western civilization is downstream from Israel and that we always must protect.

1:17:52So anyway, in the attempt to prove me wrong, he just totally exposes that, like, yeah, this is the mentality that all of these guys have. So if Mike Huckabee supports a war for Israel, in his mind, that's not selling out your country for another country. This is God's plan. You know what I mean? So they're all so – it's like the fish doesn't know he's in water. Like they don't even realize they're the Israel lobby. They go, what are you talking about? So this is what Jeff Sachs said to me. Jeff Sachs, who's off and attacked. Jeff Sachs is really smart. And I think Jeff Sachs is a decent guy. And we don't agree on everything.

1:18:27But he's an honest guy. He just says, so I say to him, you've been watching this all these years. What do you think this is about? Why does this tiny country have so much control over our giant continent-sized country? And he said, well, you know, a lot of contributions. There are threats. There are questions about the Kennedy assassination. They're willing to use force in assassinations to get what they want. He goes, but I don't think that explains it. I don't think either one of those bribery or threats, a carrot or stick, I don't think that actually is the whole picture. There's a spell of some kind.

1:18:57There's like a supernatural quality to this. Good people, like I don't think Mike Huckabee is like in favor of genocide. I just don't think that. Pretty nice guy, very nice guy actually. But he believes with this fervor that suggests that he's not thinking clearly. Like there's another quality here. And do you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, no, 100%. And I think Jeff Sachs is a pretty secular guy, by the way. I don't know, but I don't... Jeff's not a religious extremist, that I can say that. For sure. Right, okay. Yeah, but everyone recognizes... Like I told you last time, there's no such thing as atheists.

1:19:28They think they are atheists, but no one really is. But you were an atheist. No, but I wasn't. But I thought I was. But you never really are. Why did you think you were? Well, because I would just say, I don't really believe in any of that, and I don't think that that's real. But of course, as I told you the story last time I was here, Then when my daughter is born and I'm worried about her life, I immediately find and it's like I always knew I always that was always in there on some level. So I remember one time here in this debate and I wish I could remember who it was, but it was like a theist atheist debate.

1:19:57And it might have been Christopher Hitchens or something like maybe not. But it was one of those like does God exist debates. And so the guy arguing that God does exist said something about how there are spiritual forces in the world and blah, blah, blah. or there are evil spirits, he said. There are evil spirits. And then the atheist guy, he goes, look, we all know that there is depression and there's this and there's this. We all know that there's dark forces in the world, but you don't need a supernatural explanation. I'm like, did you just say dark forces? Like dark forces? I mean, you're saying the same thing in a different language, man.

1:20:35It's just like, there's actually no gap here. Anyway, but so I do think there's a spiritual component. to all of this. It feels that way because I don't want to be the kind of person who imputes the worst motives to my opponents, okay? But I am because most people are like, why is this person doing something that's insane? It doesn't make sense. It's irrational. Getting paid. Like that's always the first explanation that people come to and I have myself thought that. But then if you know someone really well, I don't, I'm not intimate with Huckabee but I've known him for so many, 30 years more than, it's like I don't think Huckabee you know he's into money i get it but i don't think he's like totally motivated by greed i just don't believe that no i think there's well look i think and i don't think he's evil but he's defending evil so what is that i think a few things can be true at the same time right so it could it can be that you're under a spell that there's a spiritual aspect to it and then it can also be that there's soft incentives for you to continue being under that spell right and so the you know The history of Jewish influence, Israeli influence, I mean, look, obviously much of this goes back to the fact that Jews dominated finance for many years.

1:21:55And part of this was because Christians weren't allowed to lend money and credit, right? But there is a form, obviously, of abusive usury, right? There are loan sharks out there. There are some of them are even credit card companies that will charge you like 30 percent interest or twenty nine point nine, whatever they're allowed to do on, you know, which is like a crazy interest rate. And they kind of prey on desperate people. Now, they're not necessarily like even the loan shark or the credit card companies. They're just kind of benefiting off your desperation because it's not like if the credit card company wasn't there, it's not like, oh, now everything's OK.

1:22:30The America, the reason they're putting necessities on the credit card to begin with is because other conditions have, you know, led them to this desperate place. But the problem, so then you had for much of Christendom, right, it's completely bound to lend money at any interest, which is that, you know, I do not think is abusive to have any interest rate on your money because that's actually a very necessary part of an economy. There are there are people who have a very good idea, but don't have any capital and then there's people sitting with capital And they go well look I can't just give this to you because if you lose it Then I just lose my money And if you pay me back all I've gotten is that I get my money later rather than having it right now You have my money then I can't use it right right exactly I want to be right So there's a cost to me to lending you my money However, if I go hey, I'll lend this to you, but you pay me back a little bit of interest This is this actually is really facilitates economic growth because, you know, or just good businesses being created because like, oh, yeah, the guy with a good idea, but with no capital now.

1:23:29So anyway, so so Jewish bankers ended up kind of filling this void. And then you had very powerful Jewish groups who became very, very wealthy in banking and yada, yada. A lot of things later, banking got very, very corrupt. But again, it's important to keep in mind this wasn't most Jews. Most Jews were living in poverty. This was but like the Balfour Declaration is written to the Rothschilds, right? Like it's not the creation of Israel was at least part They had international finance backing them And so that's also true in America that much of the in the largest banking institutions had some Jewish influence It's also the case that after the creation of the state of Israel There you have the Mossad, right?

1:24:12Or you have Israeli intelligence and And now Jews are smart, not like that much smarter than everybody else, but they're a pretty smart group. And then the Mossad had an advantage over every other intelligence organization that would really be a dream for any intelligence organization. But the Mossad had a diaspora of people all spread out in the world that were Jewish. right? And so, and also there was this wide cultural belief amongst Jews that the Holocaust is what gave birth to the state of Israel and that the state of Israel is the guarantor of another Holocaust not happening. And so you could very, like imagine the CIA had that.

1:24:53Imagine you just had little Americans in every single country, you know, little groups of Americans, maybe not every single country, but you had pockets of them in lots of different places and they really passionately believed that the existence of the United States of America was the most important thing in the world. What an advantage for for them go around hey find any american somewhere you want to serve your country you want to do that and so i think between finance um between the the massad um and then the when the neoconservatives who really were not old money when they first came into it right like if you know the first generation of neoconservatives they were they were having their debates at city college not at harvard You know what I mean?

1:25:33Literally, City College. Yes, these were middle class guys. Working class. They weren't the Rockefeller guys or the Morgan guys. They weren't at the Council on Foreign Relations. But what they did was they went and they made their relationships with the military industrial complex themselves. And a lot of this was, you know, the problem is that you create this empire. You create this military industrial complex, this big government scheme. And then it's right for someone to take it over. and if you go look at like every last one of those bill crystal think tanks bill crystal needs to have 16 think tanks he doesn't have a thought in his head but he's got all of that literally never had a new york times call like his dad was smart for all his problems bill crystal was never smart he was revered as the smart guy never never said anything yeah literally um but every last one of those think tanks is funded by lockheed martin or you Raytheon or whatever.

1:26:30So it's like the thing is that a lot of times in government, it's a very different thing to swim with the current than to swim against the current. There's no such thing as a Fabian libertarian. You might have some hardcore communists, and then you have like an AOC who's like, I want incrementally more government. You can't get incrementally less government because there's no that's asking the government to have less power now if you're the neoconservatives and you come around with like hey i've got a plan to fight forever wars you know i've got a plan to go topple all of these different countries you're going to get some money from weapons companies and so anyway just saying aside from the spiritual fascism i thought that's what fascism i mean leaving aside the anti-semitic component of the Nazis, which was a big component, but the idea of fascism that the state, you know, merges with the industrial powers.

1:27:31Yeah, this is what it is. And also just swap out the Jew hatred and make it Muslim hatred or make it German hatred or Russian hatred or whatever it is. You know, they always pick another thing, some ethnic hatred. So yeah, it's not, but that's exactly right. Fascism won. Man, it's so, it's so ironic. The same when sometimes when you win, you really lose. You know, you could they could say on paper, and I'm sure there's some historian professor who would say, no, like capitalism and communism won the Second World War and fascism was defeated. Except what arose out of it was the fascist model for everybody, essentially.

1:28:03Right. Which is and again, it's fascism is kind of ill defined, but kind of ill defined. Well, but broadly speaking, I mean, what are we talking about? The FDR and the entire progressive movement, the original progressive movement, this is what they were advocating for, right? It's like we got to get away from laissez-faire free markets. We're not going total communist, but we need a strong, powerful state, powerful enough to regulate the economy and the country. And then also fight wars abroad. I mean – Without majority support. Yeah, I just don't really see what and we can cling to this idea of democracy, which is always really an illusion.

1:28:45You know, it's never really true. It doesn't really. In fact, there was a study done. I want to say this was at Princeton, if I'm remembering correctly. This was like 15, 20 years ago. But they did a study where they said they just concluded that we're an oligarchy, not a democracy. And they literally just went through it empirically and were like the American people's feeling has no impact on no bearing. You could say we have elections. And if you really don't like George W. Bush, you can vote for Barack Obama instead of John McCain. But what'd you vote for him for? Because he said he'd close Guantanamo Bay and end the wars.

1:29:21Guantanamo Bay is still open today. And we're on the seventh war of Wesley Clark's seven wars in five countries. None of that stopped. What did we get during Obama? We got a massive escalation in Afghanistan. We got wars in Libya, in Syria, in Yemen. drone bombing campaigns in Pakistan, continued the war in Iraq, ended the war in Iraq, then reinvaded Iraq when his pet ISIS left over from the war in Syria. So I think you're describing the upside of all of this. Again, I haven't slept eight hours in a month. I'm so distressed. I'm in no sense for this. I argued against it, obviously. But it's happening, and this is the end of the empire as we knew it.

1:30:03Hopefully it'll shrink back into something, manageable that serves our interests but um who knows what will happen but we're definitely not going back to where we were a month ago we know that so what are the upsides well one upside is you might wind up at some point with presidents who want to run the united states no president wants to run the united states because why would you want to run the u.s when you can run the world yeah by the way you don't know the people you manage when you run the world they don't like come to your office and complain about your treatment of them it's like there's no cost It's all upside.

1:30:32You're just, you're the king of the world. I don't think future presidents will have that option. And so maybe we'll get people who are like, you know, LaGuardia Airport smells. The Miami airport is like an atrocity. Maybe we should fix that. Don't you think? Yeah, yeah. Maybe this will cause like a reorientation back to what matters, which is our country. Yeah, quite possibly. And that's the, yeah, that's really the best case scenario. And, you know, like I try to, well, I look at models like, you know, when the Soviet Union collapsed, right? I remember there was a, so Murray Rothbard talked about this in a speech once.

1:31:07Murray Rothbard, for people who don't know, is, in my opinion, like the most brilliant political theorist of the 20th century. He's a genius. And he was, you know, of course, he ended up supporting Pat Buchanan in 1992. He was an economist and a historian and a philosopher. And so he was talking about, I guess this was like the speech he gave shortly after the collapse of the Soviet Union. And he was talking about how he had seen like a video of a Chinese family under Chinese communism at the time. I guess maybe this was back. He was talking about from like before Mao Zedong died. And he said that the interviewer asked him questions.

1:31:50They were just talking about how much they love the regime. And he said, would you rather your kids had a, it was something like, would you rather your kids had a prosperous life or were loyal servants of the regime and had a very difficult life? And he says, loyal servants of the regime and a very difficult life, no problem. And so Murray Rothbard said he watched this and he was like, my God, I mean, this is just so horrible. Like they've actually done it. They've created the communist man and destroyed the human soul. And then he's talking to his buddy, who's another genius who went to China a lot and was like a China expert.

1:32:17And he goes, no, that's what they say when the cameras are there. That's all that is. It's like, that doesn't believe that. You know what I mean? They just know this is on tape. You can't say anything else. And so that's what you say. And then they go about their day, not really caring what the regime says. And so like when the Soviet Union collapsed, from all that I've read about it, like that was essentially the state of the Soviet Union was like no one believed the government anymore. They just all knew they were liars. They all knew this was bullshit. And they were really actually - We're in the Brezhnev era here.

1:32:46Right. And so now, Now, of course, the Warhawks and the neoconservatives, they always viewed us luring the Soviets into Afghanistan and getting them bogged down there fighting the Mujahideen in Afghanistan, including the foreign Arab Mujahideen and Osama bin Laden, who we were supporting. But they always viewed this as a great success because it brought down the Soviet Union. And I don't know enough about what factor led to what. I mean communism is not an effective economic system and but I'm sure the war did hurt them a lot I know how costly wars can be and how much they can degrade our country I know wars in Afghanistan can degrade your country.

1:33:24So I'm sure that was part of that. But my point is that it wasn't like America went in and toppled the USSR right like they collapsed on their own partly as a result of fighting foreign wars and partly as a result of You know just government lying and terrible economic policies but at a certain point like the soldiers just weren't willing to fire you know like there were attempted uh um counter coups yeah yes there were attempted coups in the past where they did fire and they were like no you're not leaving the soviet union but by this point in 89 or whatever it was as the people started rising up they were like we're just not we're not doing this anymore they themselves don't believe it anymore the government and and so i guess it's a long way to get to what I'm saying, but like at a certain point, we might just, we might hit a point where like the people just aren't believing this anymore.

1:34:17The law enforcement, whether military or police just aren't going to crack down on the American people in that way. And that would maybe lead to a rise of a real president who actually ran the country. And I don't know, I think if I'm not mistaken, I believe in, um, when there was like German reunification, they didn't, from what I understand, I don't think they didn't really punish like the people in the communist government. They kept them on their pensions. They went kind of, and I feel like we almost need something like that. I know Curtis Yarvin's talked about this a bit, but something where it's like, look, man, I think there are some people at the absolute top who need to be criminally prosecuted, but like, we got to find a transition from here to there.

1:34:57Like if we're, if we're buying off bureaucrats, that would be cheaper than continuing this system. You know what I mean? Like there's almost something where if a president could come up and say like, Hey, Hey, all you guys working in the intelligence agencies who were working to undermine presidents, you all have amnesty. But you got to pack up and go home right now. Like, that's it. In a weird way, we need, as you said, we need an actual president who's actually running the country. And who can restore peace here. I mean, I think older Americans believe their country is more united and cohesive than it really is.

1:35:30You've got an entire generation of people who weren't born here, whose parents weren't born here, who came here on the promise that can't be fulfilled. which is a better life economically. And I think it's going to be tough to make good on that promise, honestly. And so what do you do with that? What do you do with dashed expectations at scale? Millions of people who kind of thought they were getting something and didn't get it. A country where half of all households get a government check. Half of all households. And the average age of the first-time homeowner is 40. Yeah, exactly. So you've got a lot of issues here, and all of our attention is there.

1:36:10It's in the Persian Gulf or China or Venezuela or wherever. But once you readjust and start thinking about how does this country deal with dashed expectations and remain coherent, how does it prevent the rise of a truly dangerous demagogue? Yeah, yeah. Well, also, it's not just that we're focused over there, and so we're not taking care of what's going on here. It's the focus over there is destroying over here. 100%, as it always does. Okay, so the angriest I've ever been at you was when you said that – you said Lindsey Graham's views are war everywhere and Austrian economics at home. And I was like, no, you're right.

1:36:50No, you're right. Austrian economics. No, but look, I mean because – and it's not just – I don't care about just like the term, but it's the idea is that essentially what's going on here – Monopoly capitalism. Yes, yes. But the opposite of Austrian economics. I know. Big government, central banking, record high government spending every single year. And so what happens essentially is, and this is also why I'm so furious at this administration over this stuff. And I don't know, you're in more of a, you're in a tougher position than I am, where you were the guy in Trump's ear trying to convince him not to do this, or one of the guys who got to meet with him and convince him not to do this.

1:37:29I think the only one. Yeah, I think so. Well, the last one is no longer with us. Um, so, uh, you know, there's that and Yeah, yeah. So, um, but you know, so the thing is like me, I like I'm no good at being a political strategist Like I said, I'm just good at being a podcast. I had a flash of rage. That was so intense. I lost. I lost my vision Yeah, no, I understand. Well, it's worth it. There's some things worth being that angry over Um, but so, you know, I kind of go, I don't know political strategy stuff, but I go I think you should just like, you know, try your best to stay being able to at least he has one person who's telling them to do this.

1:38:08But the thing is that I'm just not capable of doing that and I'm not close to the administration. So I'm just like red behind the eyes furious. But one of the big things I'm furious about is that they're they're handing this country right back over to the Democrats who really are every bit the threat that we were making them out to be over the last decade. And they're going to come in more authoritarian and more angry because they are furious that we disobeyed them and put Donald Trump back in the White House. There's all and like all their planning. Look, we saw what they did through covid. We saw what they did with tech censorship.

1:38:38And I don't want to find out what a central bank digital currency looks like and what carbon, you know, social credit scores look like. And the thing is that what look at you watch the Democrats as they're winning now. Right. Like you could look at the races when Mom Donnie won in New York. when the new governor won in New Jersey, the new governor in Virginia, there had been a couple races in Texas where they were like outperforming what they should be performing in Texas. Every last one of them is running on what they now call unaffordability. It's like they just made up a new term because they, and literally none of them, I don't, I really don't think, if I had one of them sitting where you're sitting right here and I was grilling them and I could go, what is unaffordability?

1:39:20I don't think one of them has an answer. I don't even think they know the term currency debasement. I don't even think they know that that's what it is. They have no respect for human rights at all. Oh, no, none. So here in Virginia, which was conservative or normal 20 minutes ago, they bring in some guy literally born in India from another country to lead the effort to confiscate people's guns and no more self-defense in the state. This just happened. I mean, it was like not long ago. I mean, a year ago they had a Republican governor, so it's an evenly, not much of one, but still it's an evenly divided state.

1:39:50The second they take power, you can't defend yourself. Right. And just to humiliate you, bring some guy from another country to lecture you about your country where your family was born, you don't have the right to have a gun? Yep. No, it's such an outrage. I mean, it's just like unbelievable. But look, but the thing is that running on unaffordability is winning for them, obviously, because that is the issue, right? Now, they don't understand that unaffordability means price inflation. It means that you've debased your currency, right? And so the thing is now we're handing them this thing to run away.

1:40:25While Donald Trump is talking about working with the Ayatollah about the Strait of Hormuz or whatever, your local Democrat is going, hey, why are your grocery prices so high? By the way, all the price inflation from the Joe Biden, you know the way this stuff works. It's cumulative. So Donald Trump, we live in an inflationary economy because of the central bank. It doesn't matter what. Because inflation means an inflation of the money supply. Right, because they will, no matter what, print enough money so that we don't fall into a deflationary economy. They're going to do that. And they're just not even printing the money.

1:40:57They're just typing into a computer these days. So they can get ahead of it. And so Donald Trump might brag that the CPI is only at 2 % and not at 9 % where Joe Biden was. But for every regular American, we lived through all of those price increases. And now it's just 2 % more expensive than it was under Joe Biden. So you haven't been helped any. The prices aren't going down. They're just going up at a slower rate. It's like, I think it was Michael Malice who had the phrase where he goes, when they go, they go, we cut inflation in half. And they go, it's literally on the level of if you knew somebody who gained 100 pounds in a year, and then the next year they gained 50 pounds, and they go, I'm getting thinner.

1:41:36And you're like, no, you are not. You are getting fatter, sir. The goal is not to slow down how much weight you put on. But it really does just come down to this, right? Is that we have a government that we cannot afford. We cannot even come close to affording the size of government we have because it's the biggest government in human history. It's the biggest organization in human history, as you often point out. And that organization is parasitical in nature. It gets its money from taking that money, from expropriating that money from the American people. But you can't tax them enough and you can't borrow enough.

1:42:13And so we have to print the money. And so we have to print the money because we can't afford the size of government. And so then that makes the price of everything go up and up and up. And so essentially the point I'm getting at, and this is why I just, I just point out that to say it's Austrian economics gets it because the, what guys like Mamdani can come in and do now is say, Hey, look, everything's so unaffordable. And you know what the answer to that is? A government program, more control, more government, more government, More free buses and government supermarkets. And on the surface, that kind of probably sounds reasonable to some people.

1:42:47But the thing is that we're here because government is too big. That's what's got us to this place. And so, like, I think it's important to just, like, point that out to people. That it's like, no, this is the thing. The thing is that we cannot afford. Here's the real hard, honest truth that Americans don't want to hear. Or at least maybe the first part they want to hear. People are okay with me saying this. we can't afford the world empire we can't afford it we don't have the money for it we the only we're pretending we have it we're just devaluing our currency and therefore by the way destroying young people's lives now there's days i know a bunch of young people like in my family and friends who are literally like good people go to work every day make 70k a year and they're like how am i going to settle down and start a family dude i mean like the average house around me is going for 800 grand.

1:43:35You make 70 grand a year. That math simply does not work. And this is not, I'm not saying the bum on welfare. I'm saying like the young man who's getting up and going to work every day. And so we cannot afford this empire. And the other thing is, which no one, including Republicans, ever wants to say, we also can't afford the entitlement programs. And they're insane. They're the most indefensible thing in the world. I mean, leaving aside Medicaid for a second but social security and medicare are from a different time from a different country that are totally in defense they were indefensible then but they're really indefensible now disability yeah you're telling me you have a wealth transfer program from a poorer group to a richer group i'm sorry the seniors aren't the ones who need the help right now for sure it's the young people And I think that I would love if some politician, I think Ron Paul is the only one I've ever seen.

1:44:32I'm sure Massey would agree with me if I said this to him. But I wish somebody would just run on that. I'm like, yeah, you know, they used to say that's the third rail of politics. Like, why? Because boomers just need to get everything. Everything has to be rigged in favor of them. I mean, I'm sorry. Like the thing is, you kind of have these like abstract political debates sometimes, which I'm a nerd for this stuff. I really like them. But so you'd have like a, you know, you'd have like a Keynesian debate a Chicago school guy or you'd have a socialist debate a free market guy. And like the free market guy would argue that, you know, there's a better allocation of resources in a free market.

1:45:10And then the socialist would argue that some people fall behind. And so you need redistributive policies to take from the wealthy to give to the people have fallen behind. But who argues that you should have a redistributive policy from the poor to the rich? That's the whole United States of America. That's all of central banking. That's all of government spending. All it is is they take money from the working people and they give it to millionaires. Go look at any of the suburbs of Washington, D.C. None of them make anything. They're all in$3 million houses because government spending is north of$7 trillion.

1:45:44Of course. Well, unfortunately, it's getting to the point where that kind of is our economy. Yeah, yeah. So you'd really need to reorder things beginning with the foundations. Yeah, well— But two good things are happening. One, the empire is by necessity shrinking, and so that's a cost savings, and that's a reorientation back where the attention belongs, which is here. And two, you have the baby boom going away, which is 1946, 1964, so people born in the middle in 1956 are now 70. So they'll be 80 in 10 years. So that generation, clearly I think everyone agrees, not everyone in it, but as a generation destroyed the country.

1:46:24Oh yeah, just the worst. And annoyed the country. With some notable exceptions. My mom included. She's cool. But the rest of them. Oh, many notable exceptions. I know a million baby boomers that, not a million, but I've met baby boomers I like. Well, I just couldn't I mean, the thing about it. Not that many though. Jeff Deist is really, really brilliant guy. He ran the Mises Institute for years. He's over at Monetary Metals now. But he's a really, really brilliant guy. He had this speech one time where he was talking about the boomers and the evolution of the generation and what they believed at the time.

1:46:57And it is just the most self-absorbed, selfish generation ever. I mean, they literally, their slogan was, don't trust anyone over 30 until they turned 30. And then he does, like, Jeff Dice went through the whole thing. I don't remember all of it. But then by the end, they were the ones pushing COVID. They started out as the don't trust anyone over 30. And then they said, shut down the schools so that I don't get sick. Take from my grandchildren's generation so that I'm protected. And yeah, I mean, these guys - But the dumbest, too. I mean, the thing about narcissism is the core sin. That's their main problem, is they're all about themselves.

1:47:34The thing you notice about people who are all about themselves is how unwise and badly informed they are because they don't pay attention to other people. Therefore, they never learn. Therefore, and I've noticed this since I was a child because these were my teachers, the baby boom, they'll fall for anything. They're the most easily manipulated people who've ever lived in this country. They are the most dominated by their herd instinct. All the kids are wearing masks. All the kids are taking the shots. All the kids are going into finance. Whatever all the other people are doing, they will do. They're the Mickey Mouse Club generation.

1:48:02They are truly without creative impulse they're just not impressive in addition to being super annoying one of the least attractive generations like there's a lot about them that we can the least attach to their own children yeah you've got two houses but your kids have no house how does that work oh yeah the generation of no fault divorce the generation of i gotta be me i gotta pursue my own happiness when you got little kids but you is not that interesting yeah but the more you think about you the dumber you get that's just what i've just always noticed it's like one of the most profound ironies in life, like this kind of counterintuitive thing where if you're only concerned with yourself, your self is gonna suffer for that.

1:48:45You know, it's really true. And you watch this all the time with people who really have really bad depression and are just miserable, and they're constantly talking about their mood today. It's like, hey, step number one, stop thinking about your mood. Your mood is not that important. Here's step number one. Start thinking about other people. How about this? Try doing something productive for someone else other than yourself. And don't think about your mood once while you're doing it. I'll tell you, I've been on this earth for about 43 years and I haven't learned that much. I've got a few things.

1:49:22I've never been anywhere near as happy since I got married and had kids. Once my life became about a family and not just about me, you know what I mean? and and I I think I was in this generation that was you expect that no man I mean I don't know I always thought before I met my wife it was always to me like everything in my mind was like like professional success right you know like that was what I wanted to be a successful comedian and I wanted to I wanted to talk about politics and all this stuff and I wanted I always wanted that and um you know it's weird now because I've kind of like I've kind of gotten everything I really wanted in all those years.

1:50:00And it's nice. Don't get me wrong. I really love my career. I love what I do. I love this. I love doing shows with you and it's great. But like, it's so unimportant compared to family. I mean, you know, like it's just not even, it's not, the older you get, the more you realize it's like, that's all that really matters. All that really matters are your, your wife, your children, the close friends that you have around you, like the good people in your life, connection to other people, connection to God. That's all that really matters in life. All the rest of it is kind of just part of the journey and part of the thing but um yeah you do your best knowing you're probably not going to move the ball that far yeah well you know i read this um there was this really great book by um i believe the author's name i you know i don't know if i've ever actually heard it pronounced i've just read it but it's like a gene twenge or twinge yeah yeah or something yeah they're saying now i don't know about her i think she was on bill maher's show recently and she said one thing that i thought was really stupid and i turned it off because i was like, I really liked her book.

1:50:59I just don't want to, I don't want to know, you know how you feel sometimes. You're like, I don't want to, don't. But she wrote this book called, I think it was called The Me Generation, Generation Me, something like that. It was really great. I thought it was a really, really good book. And it was kind of about my generation who was raised by the boomers. And you know, the way I was raised, and again, I'm not, I had a really great mother. She's really great and instilled a lot of really good things in me. This was bigger than her. This was just the culture, but we were raised and I didn't think it was so unique at the time, but I was really kind of a child of the, you know, a child of the unipolar moment, I guess you could say.

1:51:36And then a teenager, young adult. A post-Berlin Wall. Yeah, well, I mean, I remember watching it, watching the Berlin Wall come down. I was at my grandfather's house, and my grandfather, as I told you before, was from Germany. And I just, my only memory of it was I was a little, I was born in 83, so I guess I would have been six years old when this happened, so I'm a little kid and I just remember I was being a little kid and probably being loud in the living room or something or walk in front of the TV and I remember he snapped at me and went shh and I just remember being like oh. How old was your grandfather when he left Germany?

1:52:07He would have been I want to say like 15 maybe. Oh wow so old enough to remember. Yeah oh yeah old enough to remember some really vicious things he got out in 1938 but so anyway he so so I just remember like, oh, this is really serious to grandpa, what's happening. And it was the Berlin Wall being coming down. Yeah, it was a big deal to him. I'm not sure he liked it that much. I think he was a little concerned about German reunification, you know, as you could imagine. But it turned out to be a good thing. But anyway, so, you know, I was, I kind of grew up in that time in the 80s and the 90s. And there was, we didn't have things that I think almost every other generation had like we weren't raised with like god chivalry nation country you know there wasn't this it was like you go to school and you know get your homework done so no one's mad at you and then you can go play basketball outside or there's a new video game out it was let's let's hang out with our friends and have fun there wasn't like this this there's like purpose you know like put into your life which most people have in most of human history even if it's just They call it culture.

1:53:18Yeah, culture, religious views, important things. And I think there were a lot of people in my generation were like that, that it was almost, again, like we said before, you can't take God out of the equation because something else just becomes God. And in a way, I know I've heard you say this before, but it's so true. It's like the desire to worship is so hardwired into the DNA of the human soul that you just can't. You can say you're an atheist if you want to, but then like I'll find out what your religion is pretty quickly. And oftentimes it just becomes yourself. You know, when you don't have other things, it becomes like, well, let me have fun.

1:54:01Let me go get this. But that is like I said, 43 years. I haven't learned much in life. One thing I have learned for certain is that if your highest goal in life is your own pleasure, you will be a miserable, miserable human being. Yeah, well, I've learned that. I've learned that, too. So as you look around at 43, among people you know who are your age grew up in the same world you grew up in, how many are thinking about the existence of God right now? I think a lot more than ever were. Did you ever know any religious people growing up? Yeah, I mean, I knew some, but it was very few and far between.

1:54:36Right, me too. Like, there were really, like, religious or talked about it or what, you know, like, I knew, you know, even, like, I went to, like, Hebrew school, but I went for, like, a year to, like, my mom wanted me to be bar mitzvahed, but it wasn't really, like, a deep religious conviction. It was more like, this is what our people have always done, you know, and, like, out of respect to your father and your father's father and your father's father's father, you know, like, I could kind of understand that. And so I went, but it was like a reformed, you know, temple where I went there. And I remember even the rabbi, like, you know, like some of the kids would be like, well, do you believe in God?

1:55:09He's like, yeah, you know, everything that's good is God and everything. You know, it was just total like Jewish, you know, essentially atheism. I grew up around so many people like that. Yeah. So it was just, you know, there was just a lot of that. and I don't, you know, I certainly think that one of the things I really focus on as a father, and I have little kids, but I will focus on this more over the years, is like instilling the idea of purpose, instilling the idea of like God, and not just God, but like what that represents, that like, hey, you're, you know, you're here, we're all here in this life together, this life is a little bit of a mystery, we don't know everything about it.

1:55:51That's exactly right. We do know that like we, other people exist too, as we exist and human beings can be, we have this amazing capacity to be demonic or angelic. You know, like you can really, one person, you know, there's little moments in life where, you know, whatever it is, like you're at the post office and it's five Oh one and you had to get this letter out today or you're getting fired. And you're like, yo, my life is ruined. If you're talking to some person on the other end, Can you please just take this one packet? You know, I'm just coming up with a scenario. And that person could go, all right, come here, give me the package.

1:56:27And you're like, yo, you just saved my life. You know what I mean? Like you have no idea what you just did for me. And like you can do that for other people. You can try your best to throughout your day and your career and your life be like, yo, let me help this guy and be that person. Or, you know, you can be what Benjamin Netanyahu is to the Palestinians, you know, like just a monster. The guy who just like ruined their family's life. And so if we're kind of given this world and we don't have all of the answers to it But we kind of know that we have like an ability to be either one of those things Hey really focus on being the angel for people really focus on trying to help others And I think that makes you a much happier person the more you agree with that completely and do you find that people you?

1:57:11Knew in the secular world growing up or reaching similar conclusions. Yeah, I think I know several people like that and I do I think that um He had an amazing meteoric rise and a really tragic fall, but I think this is why Jordan Peterson was such a phenomenon for years, that it was like going around and telling young men that you should search out purpose and search out God. It's amazing how powerful that is. I love that. Yeah, me too. He takes a lot of abuse, and I think he's against me or whatever. I don't even, I could care less, But I will always appreciate that about Jordan Peterson. Yeah, me too.

1:57:51That he did that. Yeah, you know, I like, in a way, he was a guy who I always really wanted to talk to and never did. He was, you know, obviously, I mean, him joining the Daily Wire and going on that side was just a really, really tragic mistake. And I think he threw away all of the credibility that he had with the younger generation when they really could have used his voice. Yes, I totally agree with that. he was never much as a political actor he was always something else he's like a canadian psychologist yeah like this this wasn't you know sit that part out he missed the mark on a lot of his political points but i mean you know when you're on record telling benjamin netanyahu to give them hell uh that's that's really hard to come back from but he came on you know he came on joe rogan's show the episode after i debated douglas murray i believe it was the next one was Jordan Peterson.

1:58:42And I remember watching it and I did feel like, I was like, oh man, I think he's going to like say, you know what I mean? Like I think he's going to say something, you know, nasty about me because he's Ben Shapiro and Netanyahu's guy now and they just had this big debate. And he didn't, he kind of said, oh, I thought, he didn't name me. He mentioned Douglas and Joe and he said, I thought everyone involved did a good job. Good for him. So I was like, okay, that kind of, that was nice to me in a way that I was like, oh, he had, you know, from someone at the daily wire that's about as good as i can expect he was a pretty charitable guy i mean i you know i thought he had flaws but i was never i you know i always said charitable and still do have charitable feelings toward him douglas murray however that's a different one what happened to doug is he still or is he still living in this country no he's doing great i think he got a gig uh writing speeches for the israeli government oh he did last i heard yeah he did could i just i don't know if i've have i said this on your show before i don't think so um because i think last time we spoke was right after that debate or last time we spoke on the podcast not spoke in life.

1:59:40But last time we were doing the show was right after that debate, but before this came out. And it was Ryan Grimm and the guys over at Dropsite who published this. So if you remember the famous, you've never been argument. Well, I'm sorry, I should not call that an argument. It's not an argument. Didn't rise to the level. But what he said, what he was trying to say, which was really kind of silly, but he was like, he goes, well, he said, I have the journalistic courtesy of visiting a place before I talk about that place. He was lecturing me about journalistic ethics. Now, I'm not a journalist, Tucker.

2:00:19I'm a stand-up comedian. You've been a journalist for many years, so maybe you can fill me in on this. I'm not an expert in journalistic ethics. What are the ethics of covering a country and not disclosing that you work for the government? Is that up there? Is that frowned upon? I would have to consult a professor of ethics like Sam Bakeman-Fried's parents. Yes. I think his mother does that for a living. So we have a whole infrastructure designed to answer complex questions like that, Dave. Also, by the way, how about I have the courtesy of not advocating for wars that I'm not willing to fight in myself.

2:00:56That's my professional courtesy. That is a much better standard. Well, who spends – I mean, what type of person – and look – But he kind of went away, didn't he? I mean, Douglas Murray was like, I took him seriously. By the way, I knew him well. And I thought he had, you know, there were things about him that I felt sorry for him because of them. But in general, he's smart. And I never had a problem with him at all. Had a couple fun dinners with him. That debate, which you were proclaimed the loser of by a lot of people, I think that just destroyed his life. Yeah, well, again, it was like no one except the people who already had made up their mind that Israel is the greatest country ever.

2:01:35No one except them thought that he won the debate. A few of them seemed to celebrate that. The comment section under the video was just torching him. Like every regular person went, oh, he just destroyed himself. And then I will say a lot of people, including some prominent people who you listener know, including Charlie Kirk, by the way, texted me after that debate and were like, yo, dude, he just destroyed his credibility. Or like you're you like that was crazy that he came at you like that. I had people, you know, whatever. I won't name all of them because I don't want to give out private information.

2:02:15Maybe I shouldn't have. I mentioned that about Charlie Kirk because Candace months back had called on me to release whatever private communications I have that might be relevant. And I thought one of the things was relevant was that he said after the debate that he largely agreed with me. After the Douglas Murray debate. Well, he certainly did. I talked to him on this topic. Yeah. So I did think that was relevant into where his mind state was. But other people, I think a lot of people kind of expected him to be like, okay, Dave, you've been blowing through these debates, but this is the best guy on the other side.

2:02:44So he's going to come really give you a challenge. So there was no chance that he was someone from Brooklyn was going to beat him. Well, yeah, I guess that's the first advantage that he had. But, you know, there's a weird thing where, again, kind of back to what I was saying before, you see this thing where. So after that debate happens, I have this huge like groundswell of support from people. Then Donald Trump tweets out, you got to go get Douglas Murray's new book like two days after the debate or something like that. And it just, I thought there was an interesting parallel between that and when Donald Trump just tweeted the other day about how great, not the one to watch the show, but he tweeted last week about how wonderful Mark Levin is and how everyone arguing with him is awful or something like that.

2:03:29And if you look on Twitter, not saying Twitter is everything, but it's one little glimpse into things. I mean, Mark Levin gets ratioed by random people. Like not even like you or Megyn Kelly or someone like that. I'm saying like some random guy will just call Mark Levin an idiot and way more people like his tweet than like Mike Mark Levin's tweet. He's out there. He's feuding it with Megyn Kelly. And he's calling you and me every name in the book. And then the entire audience is just going with us. And then Trump comes out and says, we're all. So I saw that when when Trump tweeted that about you read, you know, Douglas Murray's dumb books.

2:04:12and I kind of willfully ignored it because I was so focused, well, because I like Trump, but also because I was so focused on the Iran thing and just have to prevent a war with Iran. Yeah, that's more important. Well, I don't know though. I mean, that was foreshadowing that actually there was a lot of control. Why would the president of the United States be promoting Douglas Murray, who is not even American and he's totally discredited? Why would the president be promoting him? Well, I mean, doing Mark Levin is much worse. I mean, look, Douglas Murray, I do think he was ridiculous and he kind of made an ass out of himself in that debate.

2:04:48But Mark Levin has gone to a level of retardation that I've never seen out of it. You know, I have a listen. I was never to I was somewhat impressed by the first generation of neocons. You know, I think I worked for them. Yeah. Well, I know. Yeah, I was one. But I think, well, sorry. No, but I mean, like I mean, like Leo Strauss and Irving Kristol and those guys. right and and but then I always thought like I always kind of went you know if you remember the Fox News now he wasn't really on your show a lot but if you remember the reverence people used to have for Charles Krauthammer yeah like they would all talk about him like to his face they'd be like the genius is here and then I'd be like I've never heard him say anything interesting ever I just don't agree I don't know what that but all of those guys so I was always like one thing I'll say about Charles who I knew really well he's a very nice man.

2:05:38And he was a nice man because he had had to reckon with, you know, being paralyzed from the chest down from medical school. And, um, and so he just had a perspective on life. I spent hours, hours talking to him and I knew his wife and I really liked him as a man, but his views were impossible to defend if you cared about the United States. Yeah, that right. But anyway, I guess with all of them, I was never particularly intellectually impressed with any of them. If If you wanna see, by the way, if you wanna see, if you've never watched, man, Scott Horton debating Bill Kristol at the Soho Forum.

2:06:12It was, you really exposed just how much Bill Kristol has nothing. No knowledge, no argument, nothing. He literally, I've never seen it happen before, he threw in the towel in the debate, essentially. He literally, at one point, Scott makes some argument, there was like a back and forth section, and Scott makes some argument and he goes, well, we just have fundamentally different worldviews. and you're like, yeah, that's why you're debating. You have to make an argument. Bill will never explain what his worldview is. And then in his closing, there were still like three minutes on the clock and he just stopped.

2:06:43Anyway, I say all of this to say - He doesn't care though. I've seen some dumb arguments from neocons over the years. I have never seen anyone go full-blown Mark Levin the way he goes. Like it is, he's literally just a ranting old man yelling insults unattached to any argument at all. Like his whole show is just like, yeah, this little punk wants to come and talk to me, you little fascist. It's like, what is this, dude? And so there is something about Donald Trump promoting that that's like several levels worse than promoting Douglas Murray. So then you have to ask like, well, what actually is it?

2:07:24It's not designed to win people over. It's designed to increase hatred. Anti-Semitism, by the way. Absolutely. I mean, if you were whoever Mark thinks he's working for, the Israelis, I guess, you would look at the scene and say, this is not helping us. Don't do this. Get some articulate, decent, hot woman on there to make the case. Or whatever. You do a marketing thing. This is anti-marketing. This is designed to repel people. So why would you want that? I don't know the answer, but it's clearly true. Second, his relationship with the president is bizarre. You think Trump likes that? There was a moment at some stop anti-Semitism event of some kind or Hanukkah celebration or some Jewish themed White House event where Trump was there with Mark Levin and Levin comes over and puts his arm around the president's neck and pulls him in.

2:08:17Now, I know Trump well. I mean, I wouldn't like that and I'm not even the president or a germaphobe. Yeah. What is that? And under normal circumstances, Trump would never put up with that. You're doing the dominance move over the president of the United States? And over Donald Trump. Are you joking? Not just the president, but Donald Trump, the most dominant alpha male guy. That's a dominance move. Who does that to other people. Exactly. Yeah. But even Trump, who is very much about dominance, obviously, most powerful men are, Trump would never throw his arm around someone and give him a headlock like that.

2:08:51He wouldn't do that. No, no, no. He'll pull you in while he shakes your hand. 100%. Or he'll do the thing. what did he do at one of the G7 meetings or whatever where he cuts in front of some other world leader? But like there are, by the way, this is another thing that I am totally - That's breaking the rules, dude. But I'm oblivious to this thing, but this is, as you said, powerful men are like this, where there's like alpha moves, like taking your thing and just make it, you know, like whatever, like if you have a little thing of peanuts here that you're eating and I just reach in and tail, you know what I mean?

2:09:17Like, but to do that to Donald Trump, I understand. I'm not trying to make too much of a little thing, but that was, there was something symbolic and then proclaims him the first jewish president um you gotta think very strange that trump he never said this to me but just knowing him you gotta think he's filled with rage and someone doing that to him well look but he puts up with it anyway so and but why would you do that to him so if you want to exert influence over someone who's powerful like there's a way to do it but the last way to do it is to be like i'm in charge here just so you know yeah i'm more powerful than the president yes that's what Levin is saying and Trump is putting up with it this is either it's a form of sadomasochism but it also reveals like the true architecture of power in a way that's like what yeah well I think what is that well here I'll say this and I'm just to preface this I'm not saying anything other than what I'm saying I'm not implying something that I don't know any more than this and maybe you know more than I do but I will say you know people used to say when Donald Trump was first rising to political uh his political career in 2016 when he was running when he was first president i i remember uh liberals used to always say uh that he's dog whistling bigotry yeah and you know we always thought this was so always like a dog whistle but it's like a thing where you kind of first of all it's kind of weird because you're like well then wouldn't you not hear it if it's a dog whistle because wouldn't only the bigots hear it isn't that the idea Also, that seems like a very convenient way of saying, even though there's nothing I can actually point to that you said.

2:10:53Of course. But what I always thought was that what Donald Trump did was he would very often stoke or give a wink and a nod to conspiracies. Oh, big time. Look, he went out there about Obama's birth certificate. He obviously called out the whole Russiagate thing, which was a legit conspiracy to unseat the sitting president. was the Q thing. The Q thing. He'd float out, obviously the election being stolen, but all the witch, and of course now with Epstein, when it's not really, well, it is a conspiracy, but it's a legitimate one, but he's saying, oh, it's, you know, there's a democratic hoax. He is very quick to any time it will help him look good to be like, it's a conspiracy against me.

2:11:38Never once with Butler. Never once. And it's kind of crazy, man. Like we don't we have like no information. They haven't even like attempted to give us a national story that puts a little bow on top of like who this guy was or what happened, how there was such a security failure that could allow a sniper 130 yards away to get a clean shot at a president, a former president and current candidates head. um what just kind of no internet history can't get into his phones oh he wanted to kill anyone he could that's all nothing to see here and it's just a little bizarre to me that you would think like all other things making sense you would just think you would hear donald trump going they tried to kill me they tried to do this they tried to but i mean days afterward he just thanked the secret service for what a great job they did and i don't know what any of that means well i I know a lot about it, and I'll just say this, which we said publicly, is I got a call from somebody who said I've got a lot of material from the gunman, and I'm not disputing he was the gunman by the way, seems like the gunman, the question is like, was he working in concert with anyone else?

2:12:51Were there other people involved? This is the same with Charlie Kirk. It's not a question of, I don't know anything, but the question is never just did the guy pull the trigger, we didn't prove or disprove that, with the videotape that we don't have from the Charlie Kirk assassination for some reason, but whatever. The point is that's only one part of the story. The question was, were there other people involved? And in the case of Butler, I got this corpus of information from a guy almost off the street. We showed that it was real. Always skeptical of this stuff, very skeptical, but it turns out this was actually from Thomas Crooks' YouTube account.

2:13:29And the FBI claimed that this didn't exist. Well, of course they knew it existed. So then it then the question becomes look why are they so the man is dead in This soul shooter crime. There's a lone gunman alone gunman's gone Why would we hold back anything any evidence we have but they did and That would include video surveillance of the shooting range where he trained to shoot It's pretty good shot over a hundred yards with a.223. I shoot a.223 It's like everyone's all these seals like that's nothing but like for a non-seal Right, right. It's a decent shot. So there's videotape from the shooting range.

2:14:05Did he train alone? Who was with him? Never been released. And the investigation was shut down. Shut down. So what does that mean? I don't know. But, I mean, what is going on? Yeah, and I gotta say. Why can't we know? Well, hearing the heroic former director of counter-terrorism come on your show and kind of say the same thing does just have a lot more weight to it when the guy was literally the director of counterterrorism and going like, hey, what's going on here? We have not gotten answers over these things. And he tied those facts. Those are facts. He stated facts. By the way, when he, now we've just heard the FBI is not actually investigating him.

2:14:46That was all fake. He retained his security clearance until the morning he left. So if he was under investigation for treason or something, he wouldn't have held his clearance and had access to highest level intelligence, which he retained until the moment he resigned. So, okay, that was all a lie. But he said, point blank, one of the most informed people in the United States, with clearances higher, I think, even than Mark Levin's, there's a connection between Trump's decision to go to war in Iran and these not fully explained acts of violence. He said that. So, okay, before we denounce him as crazy, which maybe he is, I don't know.

2:15:23it doesn't seem to be but i hold up at any possibility what is he talking about and there has not only been zero interest from like the people in charge of ginning up interest like the the internet the influencers right there's been calculated discouragement and attacks on anyone who persists in asking the question yeah well like and i haven't gotten involved because i know everybody and it's it's so emotional to me but at a certain point i'm gonna you know whatever i feel like I've got a pretty close vantage on all this stuff and I'm getting a little sick of it because every American has a right to justice not just for himself but for any other American citizen our whole system rests on the idea that there will be justice affected by the U.S.

2:16:07government and we have a right to know you have no right to keep that from me on what grounds you keeping that from me you can't browbeat me into it by screaming Candace Owens again and again and again yeah that's right and and look like sick of this I've tried it's outrageous no absolutely Absolutely. And listen, I'll say just personally, like I, you know, and I knew Charlie and not super well. We weren't like close friends, but like I'd done a show a few times and we texted a few times. He had me at that last, had me do the debate there and we hung out for a little bit while we were there. And, you know, it's I wasn't as close with him as you were, but it's even just like being friends with someone like that.

2:16:46First off, it's very jarring to see that happen. And then he's got a wife and little kids, really tragic, horrible situation. And my incentives on all of this is like, I just don't want to believe that this was anything more than one crazy guy with a trans furry boyfriend or whatever. That actually is much more comforting to me than it's some conspiracy. Half of Twitter seemed to think I was the one who got him killed or something like that, or me and you and Megan or something. I very much vehemently want to believe that. Yes, right. So like we don't want that. I will say, and I have not done like deep dives and watched all of Candace's shows on this or something.

2:17:26But like there's little pieces of information just like it's been confirmed by a few different people that he was texting them, they're going to kill me. Like, hey man, that's got to be like totally exhausted and investigated. I mean, what is this here? This is a pretty big deal. You really got to get to the bottom of stuff like that. And look, as you're sitting here, and it's almost like sometimes people will call you out for being a conspiracy theorist or something. Or they say, they're just asking questions. You know what's worse than being a conspiracy theorist is having no curiosity about questions that have not been answered.

2:18:01Well, also, there's just something. And I'm not a conspiracy theorist. And I believe in curiosity and skepticism. And I've encouraged that in a lot of people. And some have been very resistant to be curious or skeptical. And there are two sides to this. There's not simply the people who are coming up with conspiracy theories, some of them obviously fantastical and wrong, I would think. There's also the government side, which is telling you, shut up, we have this solved. And I think we should apply the same skepticism to their claims as well. There's no reason the FBI should get an automatic, on the basis of what?

2:18:30Their track record of always telling the truth to people? Like, what are you even talking about? And how dare you threaten me and call me names? I mean, I'm not getting paid for this. I've stayed out of it. I'm just getting too mad watching this. So even before the Epstein files got released, back when Podesta emails were released and the original Pizzagate theory was born, and if you look through some of those Podesta emails, look, they're clearly talking in code. Now, what is the code? I mean, people are speculating that it was about children. Now, I have absolutely no reason to believe that, but they're not planning pizza parties.

2:19:15You know what I mean? Like they're speaking in code. When Epstein's urologist, who's just prescribed him erectile dysfunction drugs, says take the pills and then meet me for pizza and grape soda, that's in the Epstein files. Maybe there's nothing to do with sex. Maybe you get wicked hungry after you take a boner pill. I don't know. But the fact that nobody cares to find out or even interview the urologist to spring in and say, hey, what is this? That's right. And I felt the same way back then. Who drinks grape soda? What are you even talking? There's no white person in America who drinks grape soda.

2:19:50Stop. I haven't had grapes. I maybe had grape soda when I was a child. I'm not against it. I'm just saying like, talk to the urologist. No, well, right. Exactly. So it's the thing about it is, right? Like even with the original Pizzagate thing, the position of like the corporate media was to sit there and go, you're an idiot if you think this code is about, oh, you're a conspiracy theorist if you think, instead of putting a microphone in front of John Podesta and going, hey, you're clearly speaking in code here. People are assuming that that code is for raping children. So clear this up because it can't be any worse than what people are speculating.

2:20:24So what is it, sir? And no one ever even thinks to do that in this phony media. And all the hostility is aimed at people who are asking the questions. And that's a tell right there. Yes. There's people, here you have gunshots ringing out in my country, people getting killed or an attempted murder, couple of attempted murders. There will be more, unfortunately. And anyone who's interested in finding out or doesn't automatically trust the government, which we're supposed to be skeptical of, that person is the villain? Yeah, that's right. And, you know, in a similar thing, I don't know, maybe I'm going to struggle to, like, word this the right way.

2:21:01but there's certain things that in a vacuum might be true but aren't true in all circumstances so in in other words like if you typically speaking you'd go hey before you want to start you know believing something you got to see strong evidence for it or something like that or you can't just start theorizing and speculating about things without like some indication or something pointing you in that direction. But then like if me and you both just wake up together and we're blacked out for the last 10 hours and we're chained up in a prison somewhere or something like that. And you start going like, we got to start speculating about how the hell we got here because this is so crazy.

2:21:42You know what I mean? And then I'd be like, hey, my neighbor said something this morning to me about how like, I bet it's going to be a rough day, you know? And I'm like, we got to think maybe my neighbor had something to do with this. Now, then some, some skeptic could come along and go your neighbor saying it's going to be a bad day doesn't act isn't actually evidence and you're like okay but we're here like we gotta and so in in a sense there's like okay yes you could you can be skeptical and it's good to be skeptical of of some of these claims but at the same time we're sitting here watching the it's so crazy to watch Right.

2:22:17But the never Trumpers are now the biggest hardcore Trump supporters as they're destroying the coalition that they were afraid of. Right. Destroying Trump himself. Right. And so you've watched this happen. And that does lead you to go. How exactly did they pull this off? How is it that people like, you know, so I, you know, look, I'm I'm a little bit more hotheaded than you at times. and maybe this is because I'm a decade younger than you and I still drink big glasses of whiskey at night and I'm just furious about a lot of things and maybe I should let some of that go. But I'm still furious at Ben Shapiro and the only reason I hate Ben Shapiro's guts is because he called Ron Paul a Jew hater back in the day when it was totally just ridiculous.

2:23:05You read some of these tweets recently, I think. Ron Paul is up there talking about how it's not wise to fight multiple wars. This is what brings down nation and Ben Shapiro goes, I bet you just want to strangle a Jew. You know, he's like, fuck you, dude. How dare you speak to a man so much better than you that way. Anyway, but, so I was furious over the 12-day war last summer. I was too. And I went on Breaking Points, great show with Crystal and Sager, who I love very much. He's so smart, man. Great. Literally, I love Sager to death. He's just great. Someone really happy to call a friend. And so I went on their show right after it and I called for Trump's impeachment.

2:23:47I said he should be impeached and removed for this. He's launched a war of aggression. It's illegal. It's for a foreign country. It's what he promised not to do. You know, I was very angry. I still stand by that, but I was angry. And then, of course, all of them, all the guys, you know, Josh Hammer and Ben Shapiro and Mark Levin, they all just start talking shit about me. Look, this guy doesn't support Trump. Oh, he voted for Trump last time, but he's calling for his impeachment now as if I don't remember Where all you guys were in 2016 when National Review was running their never Trump Edition and Ben Shapiro promised for for deeply held principled reasons He could never support Donald Trump and Mark Levin was never true All these guys were never Trump now that he's become a warhawk what he explicitly ran against being in every election.

2:24:36Now that he's become that, they all love him to death. And they're destroyed. So anyway, my point is, sorry, sometimes you see facts like that and you go, that's worth speculating about. I do have some questions I'd like to ask on how exactly these guys were able to infiltrate this movement, destroy it from within, and set our country on this trajectory toward another catastrophic war. There's a lot that went into that happening. I couldn't agree more. I guess the only last thing I would say about it is you started by saying the legacy media covered for the crimes of their masters, the ruling class.

2:25:12Okay, got it. I mean, that's what they exist to do. That's why we have NBC News. That's why CNN exists. No, I totally – that's why Fox is here. But to see people in independent media doing that – and I understand it's very easy to get sidetracked. Like you're mad at one person, and so anyone who is asking similar questions to that person like must be on that side or something. But like try to retain independence in your head. Like don't get sidetracked. Certain questions have to be answered no matter who's asking them, right? One of the questions I still can't answer is why is it that all the neocons are the ones leading the screaming and anyone who asked questions about Charlie Kirk's death when Charlie Kirk was an enemy of the neocons, like open enemy of the neocons, invited you to TPUSA.

2:26:04Like, you don't invite, and he didn't, it's not because the kids at TPUSA are like, oh, I grew up loving Dave Smith. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've said this on other shows too, but I said this to you, that it's like, there was something about inviting you or Megyn Kelly. Yeah, we're on Fox News, it's fine. And huge stars on Fox News. It's not just like someone on Fox News, like two of the biggest shows. There is no reason to invite you to a Turning Point event unless he wants the kids in the audience to hear your views, which he did because he substantively agreed with them. And I would know because I talked to him about this a lot, like a lot, a lot over years.

2:26:37So for the neocons, whom he at best didn't trust and mostly really didn't like, I never talk about what I think Charlie thought because it feels so weird because he's gone. But I just have to say this. they're the ones leading the charge on shut up don't ask any questions like you tell me what this is well that's and i'm not going to take orders from them who are these people anyway this is the same reason why this is the reason why i i read that text message that he uh he sent me and it was because well part of it was because candace asked and i'm friends with candace and she was very she lost someone she was very close to um but part of it was that you know because it's a weird thing to do.

2:27:16It's a weird thing to share private text messages with anyone, especially someone who just died. And I got some pushback for that. And I understand why people, like I get their point. Maybe I shouldn't have done that. I'm not sure. But you know, it was the thing where like Netanyahu immediately is trying to hijack his legacy. Josh Hammer and all these guys are immediately trying to hijack his life. And so it's kind of like - And selling their books by the same time. Literally, dude, it's the most disgusting thing I've ever seen in my life. Josh Hammer did three interviews immediately after. The only reason anyone's interviewing him is because he was friends with Charlie Parker he was close around his circle or whatever and every single time he mentioned how much Charlie loved his book it's like Jesus dude I mean I just could never imagine getting a little strong everybody you know the last Charlie was friends with Josh Hammer well okay well he he had him in his circles or whatever his handler or whatever it was but you know I remember you know right before Charlie uh died he called me and he said man I just wish everyone would listen to your podcast it's like this is so crazy of a thing to say unbelievable but the reason I released that is because I'm like, look, I don't know exactly where Charlie was on his evolution on this topic.

2:28:15Obviously, he had at one point been a diehard pro-Israel guy, but a lot of people were that and then kind of woke up over the last couple of years. But I know that he texted me after my debate with Douglas Murray that he said he thought I did a great job and he really did. He said something like, I read it verbatim on my show, but he said something like, believe it or not, I really didn't disagree with almost anything you said. And I'm just saying Ben Shapiro wasn't sending me that text. So for people to try to pretend there was no daylight between the two of them is just not true. No. There was hostility.

2:28:47Right. Big time. And not just with, you know, those guys. Hostility. I mean, I don't want to overstate it. I'm not saying he hated them as people. But I mean, he did not agree at all. And certainly didn't agree with war with Iran. At all. And with also, honestly, some of the Christian Zionist leaders. I mean, Charles was very, he loved Israel as a country, for sure. And I think he had a complicated theology, which I did not fully understand and still don't fully understand. But the idea that you would put another country before your own, like he just rejected that flat out. And some of those, some of the Christian Zionist leaders are very aggressive and shark-like and very money-oriented and pushy.

2:29:29And he started talking about that openly. Well, he talked about it with me a lot. Well, he talked about it on Megyn Kelly's show. I mean, talked about the reaction he got from the evangelical leaders. Well, maybe not from the evangelical leaders. It wasn't. It was a mixture of Jewish Zionists like the guys you mentioned, but also the people he grew up with who were evangelical leaders. And he was upset with them. I mean, I talked to him about it at length. If I could name names with who he was upset, I'm not going to because he's gone. But, yeah, that's just real. And I don't know. I don't even like talking about this, but I'm just offended by where this is going.

2:30:06And the bottom line is every American has an interest in every murder getting solved. And not just in getting solved, but fully solved. And if you have a government agency that's shutting down a legitimate line of inquiry, at very least you have to answer the question, why are you doing that? And Joe Kent has said in public multiple times, including to me, the FBI shut down any effort to look into international connections here within days of the killing so someone should ask the FBI like why'd you do that and no one seems willing to ask and look we also know what we know about this FBI who I just could not be more disgusted with and you know I know you saw when everyone's afraid of them well when Dan Bongino was talking all types of shit to me on Twitter or whatever, but it's like, look, man, you just, you know, there was a thing where people were saying they were trying to go Dan Bongino into debating me because he was talking shit about me.

2:31:07And, you know, as I was, I think I responded in kind. But the thing is like, he can't. Dan Bongino, not only can he not come debate me, Dan Bongino can't ever do a difficult interview ever again for the rest of his life because he's ended in one question. Literally one question ends it. I just go, hey, okay. So you looked the American people in the eyes and you swore that you had seen the proof that Jeffrey Epstein killed himself. Well, it's been declassified by an act of Congress now. So go ahead and tell us what'd you say? What's the proof? It's all declassified now. What are the few exceptions in the rule?

2:31:47If it's national security or if it harms the victims or something like that, how would it possibly be any of those for you to just tell me what you saw that made you comfortable enough to go out there and swear that you had seen proof that he killed himself cash patel dan bongino any but these guys specifically and this is one of the big things i think that i just want to interject i'm not no this is not even anyone in particular but um you know we say we know things but i would always add the caveat to the extent you can know things like of course i thought i've known many things i've turned out to be wrong you know so i could be wrong but this is sincere i believe i can say with certainty that jeffrey epstein was murdered so i so i mean but of course i'm always open to countervailing evidence always right so let's see that my capacity for being wrong but i can say if you could x-ray my heart you would find that i believe with total certainty he was murdered and the people in the u.s government knew that he was murdered i don't want that to be true but i believe it is true so like it's gonna take a lot you're gonna have to show me that that's false well the the reason why i have so much contempt for uh dan bongino and cash patel particularly um and pam bondy too but more so the other two is that these guys went around and really dan bongino i mean cash did many podcasts and stuff but dan bongino got rich doing his show at a really big show And he flamed that Epstein stuff for so long was like don't let go of this one This is a huge scandal.

2:33:19We're gonna get in there and expose it and I got to say every bit as much as the war in Iran maybe not quite as much as this most recent one but the Covering up the Epstein scandal did so much to damage this administration totally because it went to something very fundamental the fundamental promise of Donald Trump and the reason why Donald Trump, I believe the main reason that he rode to political success and won the presidency twice was that he said he was going to drain the swamp. Drain the swamp was an incredibly effective campaign slogan. It was essentially saying, look, man, on some level, almost all Americans know this.

2:34:00This city in D.C. is filled with corruption. And the people in political power have committed profound crimes against the American people. And none of them have been held accountable for it. And we're going to hold them accountable for this. And for this Justice Department now to go in and put up zero deep state arrests. I mean, dude, if you just think about the fact that the intelligence agencies framed the sitting president for treason for four years. I mean, an obvious deep state coup to overthrow or an attempted deep state coup to attempt to overthrow a democratically elected president. It was an outrage that they did it to him on the campaign, but it is a little bit different when he's a presidential candidate than when he is the commander-in-chief, the president of the United States of America.

2:34:52They framed him for being a Russian spy. Donald Trump is a lot of things. He is not a Russian spy. There has never been one. It was the most ridiculous thing ever. It was all complete phony evidence, and they knew it. They knowingly went forward with that. And Andrew McCabe admitted on 60 Minutes that he said their plan was to invoke the 25th Amendment, but they realized they couldn't get enough people to go along with that. And so they settled for Robert Mueller. They settled for a special investigation that would tie him down and not let him get his America First agenda through. So there's that.

2:35:26There's COVID. There's, you know what I'm saying? There's the Epstein stuff. There's all types of crime. I mean, COVID, you think about it. They freaking locked down the country and didn't disclose that. They made it! They made the germ! Themselves, Fauci was like the hero of the response for like a year and a half before it finally came out that it was him who made it. I mean, just, and they have just at every turn protected power. And again, like with the Epstein thing, man, like you don't have to, you only have to know like, I don't know, you just know like, if you know like five or six things about it, you're like okay this is some type of huge conspiracy you know like i don't know exactly what it is and by the way the files being released did shake up my interpretation of the whole thing i tweeted this once but i kind of i mean i was saying it tongue-in-cheek but i kind of meant it sincerely that i used to speculate that jeffrey epstein worked for massad and after the files came out it's looking a lot more like the massad worked for jeffrey epstein i mean i did not think he was the Rothschilds guy.

2:36:28I didn't realize that. And so this thing is a gigantic conspiracy. It's an interesting, limited look into how power really works and what's really going on. It's like looking through a stained glass window. You don't get a clear picture, but you see the shapes and you realize this is not what I thought it was. I actually came away from reading a lot of the Epstein stuff with a view of Israel that was diminished. I thought Israel had less power. Of course he was working with Mossad. I said that and got called a Jew hater or whatever. It was just true. So we're also working with CIA and intelligence services from around the world.

2:37:06But what he really was doing was acting as an employee of others as a kind of communications hub between the biggest stakeholders in the West. And so what you really saw was that governments aren't in charge. There's no meaningful nation state with full sovereignty. Like that's just not a thing. there's a superstructure whose outlines I can't fully see or even partly see but it's clearly there and it's not all being run from the Levant by Netanyahu who's probably got an IQ of 110 he's not a genius so like do you know what I mean? yes, yes, 100 % it's way bigger than Israel Israel's just like a place to you know hide out if you've been accused of a crime get a passport do some money laundering you know, whatever it's a lot of things but it's not Israel's not running the world yeah, no, there's something you're absolutely right There are power structures that we do not fully know about that are way more important than a senator.

2:38:01Of course, because we bought the biggest lie of all, which is a competition between nation states. And you know what I mean? Yeah, that's right. Ghana's got its own interests, but so does Singapore and China and India. And it's like, yeah, to some extent. But that's not – as soon as you have the free flow of capital, a globalized economy, then you have a globalized government. It's just a fact. And by government, I mean a governing body, which may be informal or have blurry edges, but it's still totally real. It's way more real than countries. Yeah. Yeah. How are countries? Like, that's like almost a medieval view.

2:38:34Well, even. Countries with kings and armies. It's like so dumb. Yeah, no, that's right. And maybe it was, you know, it's like it probably wasn't even true in medieval times. You know what I mean? It literally wasn't, but like after 1848, like after you had like the creation of like real – the resemblance or the – maybe the fiction of nation states. I mean I think it's more complicated than I'm making it sound. But it's clearly not as simple as everyone else assumes. Yeah. Well, I know – Country is actually in their own interest. Come on. It's an – there's this really great book written by Murray Rothbard who I mentioned earlier called The Progressive Era.

2:39:11And it's about, you know, it's about I think that goes from it might like Theodore Roosevelt for Woodrow Wilson, FDR. And one of the things that they talk about is that there was and this really is true is that there were like there were real people who really like meant well and were kind of, in my opinion, got it wrong. But, you know, the kind of moderate socialist types or the progressives who who were like, hey, we're such a wealthy country. We should have more of a managed economy so that we can make sure it's working for everybody. But really what ends up happening in the progressive era is then all the, you know, all the titans of industry, all the robber barons, as they call it.

2:39:55They all got on board with it. And they went, oh, yeah, totally. We should have a managed economy. Yeah, absolutely. We'll be doing the managing. You know, it was all it was like all the money interest that they supposedly wanted to rein in were the guys who ended up getting control of the government anyway. And so this is how it works matter as sponsored by Microsoft. Yeah, that's right. That's right. The gay pride parade has like a Bank of America float coming through it. And you're like, I mean, I know there is some leftist out there who really believes in the gay pride parade. But like something bigger is going on than what you're paying.

2:40:27No, really. It's liberation. Just trust me. This is going to be liberation. Don't worry. It's too ridiculous, man. I know. Well, good. Thank you for everything you're doing. Oh, of course. I never get emotional, but I'm sorry to start yelling at you. But that's just stuff. I enjoy it. It's literally nothing makes me happier than to be held at in agreement. You got me wound up! Dave Smith, you're the best. Thank you. Thank you, sir.