Ex-CIA Agent Speaks Out: JFK, 9-11, UAPs, MLK, MKUltra & Everything Trump Is Hiding

30:19And I also noticed something else. Tell me if you have too, that of all the appointees, high level of cabinet secretaries, big appointees in this administration, Ratcliffe has basically received no scrutiny in the press at all. Yeah, neither did Rubio for the most part. Sorry. Sorry, I wanted to add. Fair. Fair. Thank you. But did you notice that? Of course I noticed it. You're a CIA director. You're one of the most powerful people in the world. It's a giant red flag. It's a giant red flag to me. I'm sorry. You got to have, if you're coming into one of those positions, I want, it doesn't matter who's in charge.

30:52I expect controversy. I want an argument over it. I want to see people get mad about the person that's going to. But to this day, most people have no idea who the director of national intelligence is. Right. And he's treated like a head of state when he travels abroad. He runs CIA. We don't know what their budget is. I mean, it's an incredibly powerful agency, as you know better than I. So, and this guy, no one says a word about him. So that tells me that the American media are at the very least beholden to, if not controlled by CIA. Like, where are they? Where's CNN? Where's the New York Times on this?

31:24Where's the Washington Post? Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned the media. Because the media plays a huge role at this point in American freedom, our future. And, like, take a look at the media blackout, even on, like, I'll personalize it here. On May 13th, you would have thought every news outlet would want to hear what was happening behind the scenes during COVID. Fox News was the only one that covered it. And that happens all the time. It tells me that the media is controlled. The media is controlled by the government. This thing where we've got an independent media, it doesn't exist. Okay? And that's a big problem for government oversight.

32:06It's a big problem because whistleblowers who go through the system, sorry, I'm going to pivot just a little here, but whistleblowers are essential to holding the system accountable. To honest government. To honest government. So I can tell you, I've personally walked through the system and it's so broken that now when people come to me and say, should I be a whistleblower? I tell them no. And that's the honest, I say, the only reason you should be a whistleblower is if you're prepared to lose everything, okay? Because you're not going to get a gold star when you're done, okay? It's not going to make it good for you personally.

32:47It's not going to make it good for you professionally. And if you, say, go through the IC system, they continue to investigate themselves and find no wrongdoing. If you go to the ICIG, I went to the ICIG and I tried to get them to - Intelligence Committee Inspector General. Thank you. I apologize. No, no. It's all right. The internal watchdog. Yeah, the internal watchdog. And Chris Fox, by the way, I think is another one I should mention specifically. I think he's got the spine to try and get something done to clean things up. And I said that in my testimony. But let's say you go through the whole system and you realize, oh my gosh, the system is broken.

33:26What do I do now? Well, that last line of defense, the last line of defense for a free society is a free media. And let's say you want to, you're like, you know what? This is wrong. I have to do something. And you say, I'm going to go to the media. Well, that is, that's Russian roulette. Okay. And by the way, let me be perfectly clear. I am not advocating that people with classified information go immediately to the media and just start spouting their mouth off. That is not what I'm saying. No, they should just dump it on the internet. That's what I think. Put it on the blockchain. Just want to be clear.

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35:45well, they are, a monthly gift with$83 helps sustain that protection throughout the month. So visit SaveWestBankChristians.com and stand with Christians in the land where Christianity began. That's SaveWestBankChristians.com. We are proud to partner with them. Thank you. And if you go to the media... So if you go to Jake Tapper, maybe he's not going to criticize CIA too much. Yeah, yeah. You're playing with fire because you could be putting yourself in a lot of trouble. And that is an oversight mechanism. The whistleblower system is an oversight mechanism. And that's what, sorry, and that's what I love about Gabbard's release of information, for example.

36:25Take the Trump-Russia collusion documents. She included whistleblower testimony. It's not just straight documents. It also provides a contextual sort of real feel of, not sort of, a real feel of what was happening at the time from a real person. And so, So, do you have any idea why this is the case? Which is to say, do you have any clue how CIA influences the behavior of the Washington Post, the New York Times, CNN, NBC News, the Associated Press, etc.? My limited window. Because, like I said, I'm an ops officer. Up until recently, all I cared about was stealing secrets. Right, in some foreign country.

37:09Yeah, yeah. Yes, to be clear, not American secrets. I want to ask you about that in a minute. Okay. My limited window is there's clearly some preferred outlets that they will go to. I mean, I see some of these things, and these are puff pieces. These are cheerleading pieces. Talking about how great things are. Talking about all the things, all the reform. I've seen a few recently. The problem with CIA, I've long thought this, is it doesn't get enough money. And so Congress needs to appropriate more money. Every piece is like that. Right. If only they had full funding. Right. What? Right. Which is a great point.

37:53Not only do they not get enough funding. The funding piece is actually interesting that you mentioned it because it's also, sorry, this might be a non sequitur, but I think it's important. Part of the reason we failed is the Patriot Act. and 9-11, I was part of the whole system post 9-11. I can tell you, I never had a time, even during continuing resolutions, where if I went to the boss and said, hey boss, I've got this great operation going on, you need more money. They always found money for me. And I think we started confusing good managers for good leaders. So after 9-11, Patriot Act opened up a bunch of authorities, a bunch of operations were opened up.

38:43And, you know, the good managers were the ones who could juggle a gazillion different things at once. You know, I wish I was one of those people. I was never good at juggling a gazillion things at once. You know, I stuck to sort of a handful of things I knew I could accomplish. But the good managers, they could. And they were working in a time where there was a ton of money. We've always had money. We've always had money. And so those good managers who didn't really have to get tested about, hey, should we do this? Should we save this money for something else? Should we make this moral decision on blah, blah, blah, blah, blah?

39:16They got confused as good leaders, so they matriculated upwards. and they were never really, and this is a generalization, they were never really tested in terms of moral decisions or decisions that were weighty in terms of like, should we continue doing this operation or not? So, you know, and we had chances to be tested. How many people spoke up during the whole enhanced interrogation piece? How many people came forward and said, hey, last I checked, that's torture? Well, one did. One did and he was destroyed, right? He went to prison. He went to prison. Under the subsequent administration, which was the amazing part.

39:55That's crazy. So he came forward during Bush, but Obama got there and John Brennan immediately saw that he was indicted and sent to prison and wrecked his life. So all these managers who have continued to be moved up, they've never had to make a hard moral decision. COVID hits. And you got people saying, hey, I've got religious rights. Hey, I've got bodily rights. Hey, this is executive overreach. and no one knew how to handle that and it proved beyond a shadow of a doubt the management they're not leaders the managers in the cia are not trained to handle conscientious dissent and real moral decisions it for me that was that was it they they failed a test of their humanity and that opened my eyes.

40:45There's a open, no one asks this question very often, but where does CIA's funding come from? Well, it comes from the Congress, in part, but that's not the entirety of its funding. Period. But the part that is appropriated is classified, so we don't know exactly what the budget is. How can you, and I'm pretty sure the President doesn't know. In fact, I'm pretty certain the President doesn't know. So, like, how is that civilian control of an agency if no one really knows how much money there is or even where it's coming from? It's not. You know, and there's, you know, there are reasons why they want to hide budget.

41:25Oh, I understand. And, like, I really believe in sources and methods. We don't want to see sources dead. We don't want to see sensitive methods destroyed. Right. But, you know, if the naming conventions for the various offices at the CIA are made so indistinct that outsiders can't understand what they do in that office. Well, that's meant to protect the type of operations where there's sources and methods. But there's a real question on the oversight piece. Like, how does oversight happen if you can't go, what exactly does that office do right there? What does it do? It's got a weird name. Where's the money going?

42:08Yeah. Why does it need that much money? And you also have to ask, like, is CIA doing anything that's so critical to the interest of the United States that you would give up any hope of managing it or having oversight over it that you would allow it to be its own country in the middle of your country? The answer is that shouldn't occur. Period. I mean, morally, ethically, no. Is it occurring? I worry it is. Oh, I think it's definitely occurring. There's no question about it. I mean, from my experience, it sure looks like it. Yeah, it sure does. And again, if we don't even really know, there's a big debate, which I've listened to carefully, about where this money is coming from.

42:49And again, it's not all coming from the Congress. So, what? follow the money. But how can you? If CIA is running businesses or engaged in business practices as an agency, which it is, it's like, I get that this can all be justified. If I were king for a day, if I were in charge and I wanted to start the process, I totally get it. It's become such a gargantuan problem. Where do you even start? Right. But if I wanted to make immediate gains on that question, how do we... I would. So the director of CIA, the deputy director of CIA, and it used to be the chief operating officer, they've changed names.

43:29They have special authorities to grant no-bid contracts under national security auspices. I would come in and I would start auditing every single one of those contracts that were given out by the director and deputy director, particularly in that little window between administrations. Okay. Once you catch a little bit of wrongdoing, it makes it a lot easier to justify, okay, now we're going to start doing the deep dive. Why don't we take a look at, you know, the other funding mechanisms that are in play for various types of intelligence work. I would definitely audit In-Q-Tel. 100%. In-Q-Tel needs to have a full audit.

44:12Can you explain for people who don't know what In-Q-Tel is? In-Q-Tel is, you know, it's the venture capital arm that funds all sorts of stuff. Venture capital arm of what? Of the CIA. Okay. I mean, I know the answer. I just want to make sure that everyone listening understands that CIA has its own, and I'm quoting you, venture capital arm. Yeah. So we thought that something had happened on like Sand Hill Road in, you know, Northern California, but no, CIA has its own venture firm. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know, there's real reason to have an insight into things that are tech and things that are about it.

44:50There are. There's good reason to have it. But if you're going to do it, if you're going to do it, you better be able to justify every penny. Well, and you have to have control over it by the public through its representatives. So what happened in Pakistan is, you know, I don't know if you've been posted in Pakistan, but like Pakistan did this with its military. And the next thing you know, the military runs Pakistan. And no matter who you vote for, the military still runs Pakistan. So you don't want that because that's the opposite of democracy, right? I spent two years in Pakistan. Okay, then.

45:23I didn't even know that. Is that a fair assessment? Yeah. Yeah, it's a fair assessment. I mean, how many businesses does the Pakistani military own? A lot. A lot. A lot. A lot. Right. And they're the best funded institution in the country. is really obvious when you drive around Pakistan. It's like all the mowed lawns are the military bases. Yep, yeah. Well, having life insurance is one of those things that helps you sleep better at night. If something were to happen to you, what exactly would happen to your loved ones, your children? We've heard so many stories of families losing a parent and having their life insurance policy save their financial lives.

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46:26Life insurance through Ethos. Free quotes are available now at ethos.com slash Tuckerethos, ethos.com slash tucker. Rates and obviously application times may vary, but it's great. So, you don't want that here, right? No. No, I do not. And the American people don't want that. What they want, in my opinion, is we were told that we were going to get some IC reform and we haven't seen one lick of it. Except, sorry, that's not true. Except with Director Gabbard. She did exactly what President Trump said. I want you to downsize the DNI. I want you to pursue de-weaponization of intelligence. I want you to pursue COVID origins.

47:10I want you to pursue Havana syndrome and election security. She did all those things. She tried to pursue those things and she got beat up for it. I want to get to that in some detail in just a second. But first, I just want to go back to John Ratcliffe, former congressman who runs CIA. Hey, why hasn't he pursued reform of CIA? That's a very tough question because I'm not in his inner circle. But as far as I can tell, it's because he doesn't want to. He's perfectly happy to let the people that are running the agency, those people, those managers who matriculated upwards, who were confused for good leaders, yeah, they're running the place.

47:52I don't know why he's letting that happen. everybody I know in that world says that he's just a pure mouthpiece from Assad everybody says that about John Radcliffe I don't know about that I can't speak to that but what I will say is he's not getting it done he's not reforming anything I mean there's still and I don't remember what they're called and I'm not even sure I'm allowed to say what they were but you know right before the administration changed the DA came up with three new ways to write products that only stay inside the CIA. They don't get propagated out. So what good is that? And so the CIA continues to create products that have no oversight and can be held on to, especially if they're writing things up that they want to wait.

48:39Can you explain what a product is? You're not talking about a new kind of toothpaste. Right. No. So analysts will write a paper, Finished Intelligence, on some topic. And there's different types of papers. They've got different names. but there's a new type of analytical product that they can write up now, which that is supposed to be shared with the community. That's the whole point. You write something up, you share it with the community. No, they decided they're going to keep it inside the CIA and not propagate it outwards. If Oversight wants to look at something, look at those papers that are being written that are meant to stay inside the CIA and not go anywhere.

49:17My gut tells me they're just going to hang on to them until they can make them go somewhere, maybe the next administration. Who knows? Right. I mean, you're describing the ability to create dossiers on people. Dossiers on all sorts of stuff. So here's the reform that I would institute if I had the power to do it. The President of the United States asks for information that is held by one of his agencies that he oversees because he's one of only two elected officials in the entire executive branch of government. And the CIA does not produce that information. and then that's the point at which you call John Radcliffe and you say, listen, bitch, you've got 24 hours to do this or I'm having Kash Patel have you arrested.

49:57But there's none of that. It's like the president's proxies ask for information from CIA and they're like, we can't find it. Yeah. When everyone knows that's a lie. Well, election security. Here's a good one. Kurt Olson is the guy. But like, would that work? Why couldn't you do that? You could, in theory. What do you mean in theory? This is the president's agency. He was elected by the public. No, no, no. To run CIA. Like, I'm missing something. Sorry, no. You are 100 % right. Trump treats CIA like it's a foreign power that he has to negotiate with. I don't, I can't understand why. It's the craziest thing I've ever seen.

50:30It should work like that, but it's not. It's not working like that. There are negotiations, like, frankly, Director Gabbard shouldn't have to negotiate with Director Ratcliffe over some of this stuff. She had people in her team that have all the intelligence background to handle the type of products that were coming out of CIA. Operational traffic, those sort of things. And had to negotiate. Everybody's got to negotiate. Why do we have to negotiate? Why would President Trump? But where's the president in this? The president issues an executive order January 23rd saying, I want all available documentation on these number of historical incidents, including the assassinations of the 60s, but not limited to those.

51:15He doesn't get it. He does not. And, you know, I— So why doesn't Trump say, okay, it's been a month. I want it by this afternoon. Where is it? Or you're under arrest. I just don't—I don't—what is going on? I wish I knew. I wish I knew because we expected, we, and I, you know, when I say we, I mean the American public voted for the greatest disruptor in American history. He's not hard, is it? But he's not, for some reason, he's not being the greatest finisher, in my opinion. He's a colluder with the system. I don't get it. I don't understand because we really want to see him successful. So how hard is it to get, and I'm just going to pick the most benign of them all, and that was Kennedy's murders because it's so old, right?

52:04But it's not possible you're revealing sources and methods. Everyone's dead. Like, I don't really see the legitimate impediment to producing these documents after all these years and all these votes by the Congress to do it, multiple executive orders, including this one. So they don't produce those documents, which they have not. They have not. why why is it would be hard for trump just to say time's up i want him now there is a sea of lawyers who cavets and say here's here's all the things that are um here's all the reasons you could be sideways with the law here's all trump has full power to do all this but he does correct he could just do it immediately but for some reason the bureaucrats they all sit around cavetsing over all the legal ramifications, I think.

52:50And Tom Cotton, too. Tom Cotton, too. Does not want disclosure. Does not want disclosure. At this point, if we're serious about reform, we just got to lay it all out and let it, if the documents that come out, these operational records come out, and they show all sorts of wrongdoing that happened decades ago, maybe we can finally start correcting those mistakes that happened and improve the institutions. I physically handled the MKUltra documents, okay? They were about, you know, this high in the office. And again, I was hired labor that day. I just needed to move the documents for somebody into another office.

53:30But those were the MKUltra. I thumbed through them. And there's no reason, there is absolutely no reason to not just put that out, okay? I think those documents that are JFK, which there was no daring daylight raid or anything like that. That was incorrect. D &I was locked out of getting those access to those documents. And some of those documents, they're going to use bureaucratic doublespeak to talk about why D &I doesn't need certain documents, why some of these documents probably need to stay behind closed doors. It's all bullpucky. It's too old. It's too long ago. it has to be released. There's an executive order with the force of law requiring the release of these documents with no caveats in it.

54:21Yeah. So they're breaking the law by holding these. You could say the same thing with the COVID Act of 2023. That was unanimously passed. Said we want all of it disclosed. Was it? No. No, there's thousands of documents that are still sitting there and I pray that Pulte or whoever else comes after him or even Ratcliffe, I don't care who does it declassify them there's thousands of documents that's of course not going to happen and i'm sure tom tom cotton would jump up and prevent it yeah and it's too bad because um they're the people who put this administration in office is going to look at that and they're gonna they're gonna they're not gonna be happy and um well it's not a democracy if you don't know what your government's doing.

55:07Yeah. And what about 9-11? Was there ever an effort to, because as you just said yourself, it was the Patriot Act in the wake of 9-11 that changed the whole structure, changed the country forever. There's never been a meaningful push to declassify after 25 years. I, you know, I can't. And there was no push for 9-11 during my time at the dig to declassify anything. Oh, I'm very aware of that. I wonder why. I have my theories. What are your theories? That there's something that's... You know, all these people who are out there that say, you know, the government can't keep a secret. And, you know, you're a kook if you think that, you know, there's a possibility there was something, some underhanded thing happening behind the, behind the curtain.

56:01I can tell you, we can keep a secret. I know I've kept secrets. I am keeping secrets. Okay. Um, morally, ethically, I'm keeping secrets. Um, and if somebody says that a group of people can't keep a secret about nine 11, that's not true. Okay. I have questions about building seven. That for me was a wake up call. And that's where the CIA office was. Yeah. And so I have a real question about Building 7. It does not make sense. And this is, and again, I used to be a normal CIA officer. You know, I did. That's such a great sentence. I used to be a normal CIA officer. It's true. Assuming that's a category.

56:42You know, it is a category. I'm just joking. I know it's a category. You know, I, and I still, I still love the agency. But there's something, there's something off with building 7 and something off? Yeah like how did it fall down? Why was it announced on television before it fell down? Yeah those are real questions that need real answers. So because the CIA there was a CIA office in that building. They admitted it. I didn't misremember that. No you didn't. Did anyone ever talk about this? At CIA. At CIA. Over the course of my career. Yeah, like what happened to our office in Building 7? The building that no plane hit, but somehow it fell down.

57:29So when I say I used to be a normal CIA officer, for most of my career, no one I knew talked about that. Right. And it wasn't until COVID that I started running into people, whatever this means, it wasn't until COVID that I started running into people that started asking those questions. And I was listening to them going, first it, I had a - CIA employees? Yeah, CIA employees. I had a visceral reaction when I first heard that. I was like, what are you talking about? I did exactly that. What are you talking about? They can't. That didn't happen. And as time has gone on. I had the same reaction, by the way.

58:00You know, I'm a slow learner. Me too. I'm a slow learner. And I'm a slow learner, but there's a lot of questions that need. So what were other CIA employees who had thought about this before you did or I did? What was their theory about how that building came down?

58:19Well, put me on the spot here, but. It doesn't mean it's true and you're not endorsing it. I'm not endorsing it. I'm interested to know what actual CIA employees think about the destruction of the CIA office in Building 7. A lot of people had questions about, you know, the folks that were dancing on top of the building and celebrating. The Israelis, the Mossad officers, yeah. So a lot of people had questions about that. A lot of people had questions about why, was it insurance policy, I believe? You did a whole segment. That's right. You did a whole segment on this. Yeah, we did a documentary.

58:49Yeah. Yeah, there's an insurance policy that was taken out right beforehand, which is pretty fortuitous, pretty prescient. They've brought up a whole bunch of things. And from my perspective, these are good questions that deserve answers. So was the feeling that that building was by someone brought down? Yeah. I mean, some have said that explicitly that I've spoken to. They said explicitly, yes. It sure looks like that thing was a controlled explosion and, you know, fell in on itself. And these are, yeah, these are active CIA officers. I mean, it's pretty obvious. Yeah. If you take, you know, if you filter out the propaganda, the screaming in your ears from Jake Tapper, like, shut up, conspiracy nut.

59:35And just ask, like, well, how did that happen? You can't get an answer because obviously it was brought down with explosives. It sure looks like. Of some kind. Right. Right. So, but who did that and why? And by the way, that building collapsed in exactly the same way that the first two towers collapsed. So it does raise like a bigger question. If that was fake, well, what else is fake, if anything? I mean, we don't know. But anyway, so all of these questions, if you're a former normal person and your colleagues at CIA, presumably also these normal CIA officers you described. Who I love. They're great officers.

1:00:10No, of course. They work hard. Totally kidding. barrel-chested freedom fighters yeah i and i've known a lot of people like that in various federal agencies who were like good people not everyone's bad right it's true however if they're coming to the same conclusion then seems like 9-11 would be the number one thing you looked at in the dig i would have liked to have taken a look at it i would have liked to have taken a look it seems obvious to me that because unlike the mlk assassination which is i'd love to know more about it. Clearly it was a conspiracy, I think. But in the end, it didn't change the world in the way that 9-11 did.

1:00:46Maybe it's just too big to investigate. Maybe. Maybe. Have you ever heard anybody say, hey, we should just declassify the 9-11 documents? Well, yeah, some of the people in the dig said a couple times, but I mean, we have to be direct. We were doing only what we were directed to do. What the EO told you to? EO told us to do. We're trying to be trying to follow the law well yeah yeah trying to follow the law trying to make sure that we we accomplish the mission that was put in front of us and get that done as quickly and as effectively as we could and we found that um well the deep state exists i mean i don't know what you want to call it i i love mike benz's description of it the blob it i think it's the most accurate description um because it's amorphous yeah there's no meaning it's everywhere right and it just rolls in and fills space and fills the cracks.

1:01:38It pops up everywhere. It's miserable. So what, um, so the dig was the director's initiatives group, initiatives group. And that's the group within the office of the director of national intelligence, ODNI run until recently by Tulsi Gabbard that was charged with producing these documents that Trump had called for it in his executive order. Is that all true? Yeah. So what were the, if you'll just jog my memory, the cases, the events that you were looking into? Well, a lot of them are listed in that Rand Paul subpoena. So if it's okay. Oh, of course. So it was the JFK assassination. Oh, the declassification effort.

1:02:21Didn't they sort of lumped MLK, JFK. Bobby Kennedy. Bobby Kennedy. In that category, there was election security issues. There was January 6th. There was COVID, Havana syndrome, UAPs, and a couple other issues. They tried to compartment out things so everybody wasn't working on the same things. So there's some things that I wasn't doing. Those are all super interesting topics. So let's just go through them really quick, and I'm going to ask you, do you learn anything new about the JFK assassination? So I have to admit, I never really followed it. So I was just hoping we'd just release it all, And I assumed there was a lot of people who were into it and they would pull the documents and make those conclusions for me.

1:03:04So I don't have any revelations that I was following very closely. I was shocked to know that the CIA was running Oswald. Yeah, that's true. He defected, but that was all a scam. And the Russians were very paranoid about Lee Oswald. He was a Marine Corps corporal, I think. and he shows up in Russia, and they're like, you're a secret agent, but he actually was. So I didn't know that. MLK, anything come to mind? I wasn't following it, sorry. January 6th. I think your interview with Steve Baker covered quite a bit with that, and I think the only thing I want to add to that is Steve Baker's provision of information to the dig, I think that was sort of the first step to the dig being shut down.

1:04:00And I've never seen a reaction quite like what I saw from the agency. Can you tell us what Baker did, just so we have context for that? Yeah, sure, sure, sure. So Steve Baker provided information based off gate analysis that indicated that a current CIA officer, former Capitol Police officer, may have been the person who placed the bombs that were outside the RNC and DNC on the evening of January 5th, early morning, whatever it was, and provided it to the DNI. Now, he provided it to the DNI because, and I didn't realize this until much later, as we're doing these investigations, sometimes you just need to bring in an expert.

1:04:44And he had been following it for so long. Somebody, and I'm not sure which part of the team did it, they asked him to, hey, would you like to help us with this? He deferred. He said, listen, I'll be glad to give you anything you need, but I don't actually formally want to be part of the investigatory work because he wants to be a journalist. He's actually a musician, which I find great. And so he provided that information, and a memo was typed up. The memo went to the PDD &I, the principal deputy director of national intelligence, Aaron Lucas. And it got scanned in and sent over to Michael Ellis.

1:05:22And that thing got shot. Number two at CIA. Number two at CIA. Shot all over the CIA. And next thing you know, people were losing their minds. When I say people were losing. Because they were so excited to get to the bottom of this case. Right, right, right. We finally figured it out. No, they were pretty upset. They're like, what are you doing? This is defamation. And, you know, people were pulled in front of other people. and, and, uh... Defamation in what way? Well, you know, they're saying, listen, this, this person who was named in this investigation, you know, she's not, that, that individual was not the, the person who did it and, you know, you could get yourself in a lot of trouble, you could get sued.

1:05:59How do they know that person didn't do it? They don't. Right. They don't know that. And we know... They're a bunch of liars is what you're saying. Uh, that is definitely one way to say it, but yeah, I mean, they don't know that. And it's weird to me because the CIA's job is to take in information. And by law, if there's a chance that there is some illegal activity that occurred, we have to inform the CIA that, hey, listen, there's an employee that might be involved in this. Take it seriously. But you're saying that CIA did not respond coolly or analytically to this information from Steve Baker as provided by Odi and I.

1:06:39They did instead what? they decided they were going to investigate the dig. Okay? And I, like, for what purpose? The people who provided the information. Yeah. Gave it to them. And, you know, to me, it's insanity. Were they upset about this information? Sure seemed like it because you don't send somebody for, you don't call somebody up and say, we'd like you to show up at this facility for an interview. And that facility is for polygraphs, by the way, which is basically an interrogation tool. and say, hey, listen, come on by. I mean, there was a fellow sitting next to me. He asked me, you know, how do I deal with this?

1:07:18And I said, well, you tell them that you work for the DNI and that you would like them to send a full list of the questions they'd like to talk about. Maybe send it to your lawyer. And you make sure you CC everybody in the DNI front office on that email chain because you want them involved in fixing this. It was insane. the reaction we got from them was a visceral reaction and so if you i mean you were practicing tradecraft your your career at ca so you know that that kind of reaction suggests oh yeah not good not good i immediately assume that there's wrongdoing and like right or wrong that's what i assume if you're going to react like that well hold on a second what are you protecting why are you of course and so and everybody i'm like i'm not a genius here you don't need to be a co to to have the exact same question so what i'll say about this was um the cia decided that that was the end of it and so they put up they made every obstacle they could to try and prevent us from conducting our investigations.

1:08:31And it was simply refusing things, slow-rolling things. Even within the DNI's Office of General Counsel, there are things that we want to push through there to make sure that we're street legal. Somehow, they managed to slow-roll even the stuff we were trying to get over to, for example, Senator Rand Paul's committee. There was questions and follow-ups that sat with that group for months. And we've been on the specific case of January 6th. So there are a couple of things that jump out. One, that of all people in the world to be identified by a distinctive gait, apparently it's a product of a sports injury.

1:09:13Sounds like it. Baker says. But it's whoever was in the figure in the picture at a weird gait. The woman, Steve Baker, says he thinks is that person has a sports injury. She's a Capitol Police officer. But of all places to wind up working, it's CIA. How did she wind up, right? According to the court documents, she had applied for a job prior to six months prior to January 6th. I can't remember. Okay. But, I mean, it's possible to get a job over there. It's not easy to get hired by the CIA. What does she do there, do you know? She works in security. I don't know the specifics of her exact job. Is it possible that she provided security to the director?

1:09:59I don't know. It is possible, I suppose. They pull people in if they're short. So they'll pull people in to, like, there's a special group of people that handle security for the director, deputy director, the coup. Maybe not the coup. Well, the coup's changed names, but like the director and deputy director over at the coup, the chief operating officer is now. The coup against Mosaddegh? Oh, I'm sorry. No. Just kidding. It was a little CIA joke. Yeah, yeah. You guys know coups. We know them. This is a different coup. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So, yeah, I suppose it's possible. It doesn't matter whether she did or didn't.

1:10:35What really matters to me was that reaction. And it's worse because the information, there was a Homeland Security investigator that was given the information and asked to pursue this. What was his name? Osborne. And so he was found dead weeks later in his apartment, in his condo. And that's worrisome. It's worrisome because there's questions about how he died. And, you know, people, there's a lot of people who don't want to talk about Mr. Osborne and his death. Why? Well, I think what they don't want, why don't they want to talk about it? They don't want to talk about it. There's no obituary, I notice.

1:11:27Yeah. There's no, it's still an open question about how he died. Okay. We don't know. Did he commit suicide? Did he? He was killed by a gunshot. He was killed by a gunshot. Okay. And it's worrisome because he was pushing to pursue this investigation. and people don't want to talk about it because they say, well, listen, we got to let the system work the investigation. We got to let the system figure out whether or not there's something to this. My issue with that is if there is nefarious intent, which I hope to God, this is just some horrible thing that happened to this poor man. Or if it's suicide, I hope his family isn't suffering.

1:12:08All those things, I pray for him, pray for his family. but if there was nefarious action that occurred with that this is not something you want hidden behind a wall of secrecy because it's not safe for anybody else who who was aware of what was happening with that it has to be talked about publicly and i hope that fairfax county police because that's where the investigation is going on i hope they're getting to the bottom of it I really do because It's just interesting that as someone who spent his adult life working for CIA and you said you loved it and got so much out of it but you seem to believe by what you're saying that the CIA would at least be capable of killing this guy Well I don't know who did that I'm not saying the CIA did it but something happened something happened he was killed and it you could make that supposition that well it might be the CIA could be could be other people with interests.

1:13:07And I also find it fascinating that within a very short period of that Steve Baker piece coming out saying we found the woman who placed these pipe bombs, the Department of Justice after, well, I guess five years of not finding a suspect, arrested some autistic black kid and charged him with the crime. It's crazy. I don't believe that for one minute. That the autistic black kid did this? No, I don't. Not for one minute. And the other issue, I don't know. Do you think the Department of Justice is capable of framing someone like that? Apparently. I don't. I can't speak to motives. That's so evil, though.

1:13:47If this is what happened, it's pure evil. And there's other data out there. People should go take a look at Kyle Serafin's podcast. He was on the surveillance team, surveilling Person of Interest 3. there's other data out there that seems to indicate that there is this is not the full story i don't believe that that kid in my this is just my opinion but i don't believe that that kid is the one the guy they got arrested the the autistic kid that that you know has feet that are six sizes too big to be the same person uh-uh it doesn't doesn't add up but i will say is the nwacp involved this all the professional defenders of black people out there who were like out in force five years ago i love black people okay now is a time for everyone who stood up five years ago during the george floyd insanity and said i love black people what about this black guy this autistic black kid who's defending him anybody nobody nobody nobody oh all the i love black people are absent on this apparently yeah okay apparently i mean not surprised it's it's sickening to me it is sickening you know i i never said i love black people i never treated black people like gods they're people like you and me yeah but i'm offended by this well i'm offended because Probably because if this poor kid, you know, he sounds like he's got some spectrum issues.

1:15:02Yes. You know, I've got people very close to me with mental health issues. Yeah. And to think that, you know what, this is a throwaway person. This is a throwaway person. That's what they're saying. If this really is as bad as it looks to me, they're basically saying. It's not the first time. When Mary Pinchon Meyer was murdered on the towpath right near my house, childhood home in Georgetown. Cord Meyer's widow, wife, she was not, they grabbed some black guy and put him on trial for her murder when they knew, when CIA was perfectly aware that he didn't do it. And they allowed the DC police to arrest this guy and put him on trial.

1:15:40Yeah. Well, what I'd say about all of this. Sorry. It just makes me mad. It makes me mad too. I mean. It's so mean. And it's, every single one of these acts that they're in our face. It's so obvious, and they're throwing it in our face. It's meant to demoralize us and make us feel like there's nothing we can do against this giant blob that does whatever they want. Run by John Radcliffe. And so, you know, as far as The Dig is concerned, as far as Steve Baker's story is concerned, that was the death knell for The Dig. And I think... But it's got to make you think if CIA is this involved in it, clearly they were this involved in January 6th.

1:16:32I mean, why else? If I'm John Ratcliffe, okay, and I find out that someone on our security team has been identified by gate recognition software as the person who planted the pipe bombs on J6, I would say at least we got to look at this. Yeah. So I wouldn't say let's shut down the investigation that produces information. Right. Right. And if I were, I'll take Kyle Serafin's surveillance team. If I were on the surveillance team that was surveilling all these people that were in the vicinity, as soon as that new information came out from Steve Baker, I'd be calling up my surveillance team and I'd be saying, hey boys, we've got some new information.

1:17:10We're going to, let's go over the old files and we're going to, I'm an intelligence officer. I'm not a law enforcement, but I, as an intelligence officer, if I were doing something overseas and it had some shades of what this is, I would immediately call my surveillance team together and say, let's get on the target again. Let's start getting some brass tacks of what's going down. Go through the old files. Figure out what is happening. None of that's happening. I mean, this person who, like, I don't know anything. I mean, I was not involved in investigating this. I just talked to Steve Baker and you.

1:17:44That's it. So I'm not alleging anything. But, I mean, Dan Bongino at FBI was defending this person and attacking Steve. That's correct. Yeah. Can you verify that? Wait, attacking Steve Baker? Yeah, Steve Baker. Oh, yeah, yeah. I'm going to help fund a libel suit against you and all this stuff, supposedly he said, but he was certainly attacking Steve Baker. What does Steve Baker do? He used gate recognition software, which the federal government uses, by the way. Yeah. It's not a crackpot technology. No, no. It doesn't prove anything, but it moves you closer like anything else. Facial recognition, right?

1:18:19Yeah. I mean, it breaks things open so that you can start conducting more investigations. Okay, so you're an expert in human behavior, of course, because you're recruiting spies. If this were happening in Pakistan, not your country, you'd be like, this agency must be involved. Yes. In the event in question, J6th. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's the problem. I keep seeing parallels to third world countries of things like this happening, where I'm like, if this were happening in another country, I'd run an intelligence operation. You know, I've monitored elections in foreign countries. And, you know, as part of that process.

1:18:56And if, you know, here's another example. If I had seen the anomalies that had occurred during our election that caused January 6th in some foreign country, State Department would be probably sending out a demarche. So there's - And will you explain to people who don't know what that, what does that mean? Oh, it means we'd be criticizing that country for their election practices. We'd give them a formal statement saying, you have done wrong, and we think that you need to stop doing X, Y, and Z because your elections are fraudulent. That's what I'm saying. So that's another example. I keep seeing these parallels.

1:19:32If this had happened in some foreign locale. It's kind of weird if you take three steps back. I'm not alleging anything at all. I just happened to notice the pattern that this happens in 2020. It's clearly, no one's proved that the election was stolen, so far as I can tell, but the evidence that this was not how you run an election, this is how a fraudulent election is run. It's overwhelming. And then Trump gets shot in Butler and then decides to hire Marco Rubio as Secretary of State, Steve Walz as National Security Advisor, and critically, John Ratcliffe as Director of Central Intelligence. And then he wins the election with the majority of the popular vote, and you don't have any of these problems.

1:20:14I mean, if this were happening in a foreign country, what would you say? I have some questions. I will say part of the reason President Trump won was because he managed to capture the Maha vote, and he should be probably a little more cognizant of what Maha wants. He shouldn't be endorsing mRNA technology. Yeah, stuff like that. But that's separate from your point. It's just kind of weird. like if you wanted above all to have a war with Iran, not just to get rid of their nuclear program, but to reset the world order. Right. Get the U.S. out of the Middle East and the U.S. dollar and the petrodollar.

1:20:50And that was your plan. Clearly, that's the plan. It's happening. And no American president would go along with that because that would like destroy your legacy and your nation. Right. Especially for someone who campaigned on no... Of course. And clearly didn't want to do it. But let's say that was your plan. Mm-hmm. and that's a big plan that's a history changing plan yeah you would um you know you do whatever you could to to make it clear to that guy like there's a carrot and a stick here like maybe you get elected maybe you don't get killed if you go along with it yeah has that ever occurred to you yeah i mean if i'm being honest with myself yes um i don't know that that happened i don't nobody Nobody has ever bothered to explain what did happen, if that's not what happened.

1:21:37Like, oh, it's just totally normal that we invaded Iran after, you know, six months after saying we ended the nuclear program to, like, restart again without trying to convince the public and then just do this thing that we know is going to wreck our country, which it now is. Yeah. What I mostly, not mostly, what I very much dislike is the alternative voices that came together to form this coalition, because whatever MAGA is, whatever MAHA is, all these people came under a very big tent and they offered their voices, their support for President Trump. What a great coalition it was, too. It was awesome.

1:22:13It was awesome. You had these people came forward and then the alternative voices have been systematically removed from the pool of people that are supposed to be advising. Is that true? I think so. Sorry, I'm just laughing. I was one of them. um yeah no that is definitely true and and like joe kent for example oh the best he's a wonderful human being who i agree i look at the reaction to him resigning the way he resigned and i have friends who i deeply respect i love them and they're like oh you shouldn't have done it that way because it criticized president trump i'm like you know many many for many years when people resign from from office a lot of times they'd resign on principle and they'd write a letter just like that.

1:22:59Joe Kent was not disrespectful to President Trump. At all. At all. And if you can't get through to a president, you can't get your message across, hey, listen, I need you to listen to me. At some point, doing the right thing is writing a respectful letter that says, hey, I disagree with this policy. I'm leaving for this reason. This happened all the time before. Or the thing that bothers me is... What's the option? Leaking to the media, subverting the president's program. Those are clearly less honorable responses. Completely. If you can't carry out a job consistent with your own values, don't.

1:23:40Yeah. I mean, I don't know what... How is that bad? Isn't that what we ask our children to be? It's exactly what we ask. And Joe Kent did exactly what many, many other people have done in many other administrations. My problem is the screeching and the gnashing of teeth that came from people associated with this administration. You know, they treated him worse than if he was like some kind of leaker. Well, actually, they claimed he was. Well, they claimed he was a criminal. A criminal. He was under criminal investigation. His security clearance was unimpeded until the day he left. So we know that that's not true.

1:24:18It's a lie. They admitted it was a lie. But they trashed the guy's reputation. They trashed his wife. Yeah. I mean, just this, I mean, I'm sorry. He has sacrificed for this country. And, you know, he did an honorable thing. He spoke with respect to the president. He couldn't get through, so he decided to leave. I keep seeing these indications that there are blast doors up around the White House, around key figures that you can't get through. You can't talk to them. And again, I wish I was part of the inner circle so I could see what was happening. But as somebody who was, you know, maybe one or two layers below that, it sure looked like blast doors were going up around a whole lot of people.

1:25:01And yeah, I don't know how we got on that, but I think it's important for the -

1:25:19organized around a kind of idealistic hope that the country could be better and that some measure of power be returned to the citizens who own it. It's like, these are not radical ideas. They're foundational ideas. Well, now that I am. It wasn't a hate based thing at all. No. And now it's totally blown up because a small group of true haters, the genocide defenders have all been like basically committed to destroying this coalition and it worked. And that's really. It has worked. And truth enough, now that I am not a government employee, I can speak about my personal political beliefs. I am a lifelong conservative.

1:25:53I voted for Ross Perot. I gave you Bill Clinton at one point. I'm a lifelong conservative. And I was going to vote for Kennedy. I was going to vote for Kennedy and I was going to go I am a lifelong conservative that was going to go the distance for a President Kennedy and in my opinion he did one of the most presidential things that I've seen in my lifetime he chose the American people over power, he said listen I've got an opportunity, if I work with this administration, I've got an opportunity to make America healthy again. It was the most noble thing I'd ever seen. I was really pissed off that he pulled out.

1:26:40I really was going to go the distance. And I'd never, if someone had asked young Jim, hey, someday, are you going to vote for a Democrat? I would have been like, that's crazy talk. I might vote for an occasional libertarian or Ross Perot, but probably not a democrat and i was going to go the distance uh with him that coalition that he brought in he i don't think president trump would be president if he had not brought that in and so for me if we're talking about the coalition that said no more war um make america healthy again we're losing the promises are being broken the promises are being broken mocked mocked openly mocked and like i you know i'll still go the distance with anybody who wants to protect religious rights bodily autonomy all those things um somebody needs to wake up this administration and say hey listen if the person who owns the the maha agenda at the polls they're probably going to get those those little bits of votes that are going to put them over the edge it's too late I mean betrayal is hard to recover from you know you get in an argument with your wife and you can get past it you catch her in bed with the pool boy and you're never going to see her the same way because she betrayed you on a very deep level not that that happened I hope it never does but you know what I mean that's what this is you caught Trump in bed with someone it's like he cheated on you and then to lecture you about your lack of loyalty is too much You're disloyal.

1:28:23Joe Kent was disloyal. Really? Joe Kent's wife got killed in Syria because of the neocons. Yep. And rather than whine about it, he kept going and tried to serve his nation and did. And he was right, by the way, on the merits. And then he calls Trump, tries to see Trump on his way out because he likes Trump, actually. He's a respectful guy. And Trump trashes his wife and says, oh, he got remarried awful quick. really because it was under your administration that his first wife was killed because you didn't have the balls to get american troops out of syria because you're controlled by israel that's a fact so then to lecture joe kent about getting married again after you ever saw the death of his first wife i was like oh oh can't deal with this anymore yeah you know it's it's there's been a lot of disappointment i know that's the understatement of the year but um a lot of disappointment like I have disappointment.

1:29:18To bring it back around to the conversation about the agency and everything else, I have disappointment with the agency. I wanted reform. I wanted real reform. I'm okay with getting rid of some of the chaff. I'm okay with making some big changes. And it never happened. Never happened. In fact, this administration is just letting it move on. I've left government service now. I co-founded an organization. If it's okay, I'm going to talk a little bit about that because I think it's important. And, you know, at some point I'm going to go into the private sector. But the thing about being a government employee, if you're in military or forward facing, you want to have a mission.

1:29:57You want to have something that you're like, no, no, no, I want to be part of something bigger. And that's the hardest part of leaving government service. You know, that and you realize that, you know, there's a lot of people in the private sector who are incredibly impressive and you have to compete against them. So some of these government schlubs are afraid to leave. Yeah, of course. But, you know, I co-founded an organization that sued the federal government over vaccine mandates. We got together. We didn't know what we were doing. We built a car as we rolled it out of the garage. But we were successful.

1:30:30We got a nationwide injunction that shut down the vaccine mandate for all staff federal government employees throughout the entirety of the Biden administration. Done. Succeeded. We filed 17 class action EEOs. uh you know towards the end of my time at the dig the last year in the dig turns out that the uh cia decided that every single person who was non-compliant with those vaccine mandates yeah they weren't you know just insubordinate they were spies so they had all of them investigated by the counterintelligence mission centers counter espionage uh department Not really. Oh, really. All of them said, yep, we got to check.

1:31:17So I personally filed an Office of Privacy and Civil Liberties complaint. And I blind CC'd every single unvaccinated officer in the CIA. and then when nothing happened after 40 days i sent it up to the intelligence community inspector general i said you need to investigate this my problem is they're purposely waiting longer than a 45 day period because as soon as i cc'd all these unvaccinated officers as soon as i cc'd them they have a 45 day window to file an eeo complaint i know a lot about the complaint process now never used to never made a complaint until covet and i wanted to give them a chance if they were upset about it to actually file those complaints.

1:32:01A bunch of people filed the EEO complaints. But all we really wanted was, and again, this is under Director Radcliffe. All we wanted to do was to expunge the records. See, when you have a counter-espionage. Wait, John Radcliffe okayed counter-espionage investigations? The investigation occurred in 2021. Right. Okay. It was discovered. So after it was discovered, we said, hey, listen, new administration, this is an easy fix. Here's what we want. Just expunge the records. Just get that off your permanent security file. Because that's... You were investigated as a foreign spy because you didn't want to take the death shot?

1:32:37Yeah, because you didn't want to take the death shot. And that was a simple request. Hey, please, just... We asked. Did Ratcliffe do it? No. So now we have to sue. And so, you know, I found pro bono legal support. Why is Ratcliffe so vested in... I have no idea. ...slander against people who didn't take the vacs? I have no idea. We... And I don't know. Maybe he's incompetent, too. I, he should have, his staff were aware. I made sure that both deputy director and the director staff were aware that this was occurring. I wanted them to just fix it and they didn't. So we're going to sue him. And so, so I'm, I'm, I got out of government service, but I'm still working the Feds for Freedom where Feds for Freedom is suing the CIA over this.

1:33:23And we are still actually litigating class action EOs. And this is a half decade later. so we've got an FBI class action EEO we've got a there's a couple others DOD NASA we're still litigating this stuff a half decade later which is absolutely idiotic it's this administration they said they said flat out we shouldn't have to have well it's just an attack on Christians that's what it was yeah here's a shot with the aborted baby parts in it can you take it the people who said they can't they get invested as investigated as spies get all the Christians out yeah so at some point I'm going to go find a normal job, but for right now I'm going to...

1:34:01Let me ask you one final question, one final category of questions. So back to January 6th, based on everything you've said without any other evidence, I would find it very likely that the CIA was involved in January 6th just by their reaction to it or is aware that DOJ isn't covering for DOJ or something. The government is clearly... Based on their reaction, it's actually the worst possible conclusion. If I'm just going off reaction, I have no data. I can't prove anything. But it means that the Capitol Police, the FBI, and CIA were all in bed. Yeah. And they perpetrated a hoax of such colossal proportion.

1:34:41And they, you know, January 6th, you had people rotting in these jails. Oh, I know. For a very long time. If CIA was involved in that, maybe that four wins thing, maybe that's maybe that's where we should be going we should certainly a church committee 2.0 just shut it down at that point yeah so but that raises the question i mean like the firewall always was involvement in domestic politics yes we did overthrow mosedek yes we did this that and the other thing abroad but it was in the service of american foreign policy goals and so it's okay but what we'll never do is start tampering in our domestic politics our democracy right right and And yet, I know for a fact that there are CIA domestic influence operations.

1:35:30I've never seen one. But all the indications are when you take a look at the media, media blackouts, what media covers, it starts looking like something's happening. And, you know. Yeah. They're pretty obviously involved in the Monica Lewinsky thing. Not that I'm pro-Clinton. Never have been. But do you think that's fair to say? I think it is. Yeah. Yeah. So that's like pretty shocking that they would be involved in our politics, don't you think? It is shocking. And like I said, I used to be different. and the variety of things that I entertain as possibilities are much much wider than they used to be you can't read an email that says this is our story and we're sticking to it and not you can't go back you can't go back to that so yeah it's disturbing we're not getting reform and I have a feeling we've got more pain ahead for us if we don't make some changes.

1:36:44I agree with that. Thanks so much for taking all this time, Jim, to talk to us. My pleasure. Congrats. You've been at a CA less than a month and you're already doing good work. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.