Israel’s Purging of Christians From the Holy Land and the Plot to Keep Americans From Noticing

19:26Dr. Fares Abraham:It's in danger of becoming extinct.

19:29Tucker Carlson:I call Palestinian Christians empire survivors. Yeah. We have survived empires. Armies came and left. Rulers came and left. A lot of them. Identity changed. Language changed. Culture has been shaved by those empires. But the people have always remained there. The church has always been open to worship, has always maintained a gospel witness. And this is my deepest concern, that if nothing has happened, if we don't do anything about it, there will be no more Christians in the Holy Land.

20:07Dr. Fares Abraham:So they remain there from, you know, 33 AD until 1967. And then in 1967, when this area is annexed by the government, the real threat begins. That's what you're saying. Yes.

20:22Tucker Carlson:Israel has pursued one strategy, Tucker, over decades, which is take as much Palestinian land as possible and keep as few Palestinians on the land as possible. This has been their strategy. It has worked for them because they're constantly taking Palestinian land within. We're talking about, not proper Israel, but we're talking about 1967 when they captured West Bank, East Jerusalem, and in Gaza. they have been taking land. They have been building settlements there. And this is threatening the local population, especially it comes at a heavy price. So that has been the policy for decades. And it has worked for them because it's almost near completion now.

21:10Tucker Carlson:They're taking, if you look at Bethlehem, the governor to Bethlehem, the district of Bethlehem, it is surrounded by Israeli settlements. And it's actually, if you look it up, the Bethlehem Ring. It's actually a thing. It's a ring of settlements all encircling every town, every Palestinian village. And they choose these specific lands strategically on hilltops, taking water resources, building walls around these settlements, building new roadblocks, building new checkpoints, building new security measures, they call it, motion sensors. electric barbed wires, and it comes at a really deep expense, at the expense of the local population.

21:54Tucker Carlson:So you grew up there? Yes, I grew up in the town of Beit Sahur. What was that like?

22:00Dr. Fares Abraham:What was your experience of the Israeli government growing up as a Christian there?

22:06Tucker Carlson:Well, I lived through the first intifada, and we lived next to the YMCA in Beit Sahur. There is actually a YMCA in Beit Sahur. And down the road from us, there was an Israeli bypass road only. What does that mean? It means whenever they build settlements, they build those roads that are only accessible to settlers. These roads connect the entire settlements together and they are directly connected to proper Israel. So they can be easy of movement for the settlers to go. What do you mean for settlers?

22:43Dr. Fares Abraham:You mean you're not allowed on them?

22:44Tucker Carlson:No, absolutely not. Some roads in area B of the West Bank, Palestinians are allowed on them, like between the roads between Bethlehem and Hebron or Bethlehem and Jericho. There are some few very limited roads that you can't. I mean, what are you going to do? We have to share the roads. But in many of these roads, Palestinians are not allowed to.

23:07Dr. Fares Abraham:You're not allowed? No. Like as someone who's born there?

23:10Tucker Carlson:Absolutely not. But that road down the street from us, we would see Scepters come and go. We would see Israeli army vehicles come and go. And one day we were playing outside.

23:23Dr. Fares Abraham:Wait, I'm sorry. This is kind of, I mean, I've been there, but it's hard. I didn't fully digest this, I guess, at the time. So how about right now? You're an American. You live in the United States. You've been here a long time. Could you go and get on one of those roads?

23:36Tucker Carlson:Let me explain it this way. Imagine you are in San Diego.

23:39Dr. Fares Abraham:Yeah.

23:40Tucker Carlson:And then a group of people from Mexico come to San Diego and take a piece of property.

23:45Dr. Fares Abraham:Yes.

23:45Tucker Carlson:And they build fence around it. And then all of a sudden, they plant a Mexican flag on that. You know, not to say that I love Mexicans, but this is hypothetical. I get it.

23:56Dr. Fares Abraham:But it's a country too. Yes. Right.

23:58Tucker Carlson:I love Mexican food too.

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25:56Tucker Carlson:So for the sake of this analogy, imagine they come and they build fence around this property, and now it cuts your property in half, and sometimes it slice it up. So San Diego becomes fragmented, and they set up this fence around it. They take the water resources. They build walls, sniper towers, and all of a sudden, you see the Mexican army coming to protect those new settlers. And those settlers are not friendly neighbors. They're not coming to San Diego to be neighbors. They're coming to take the land from San Diego. And now if you are a mother, a Christian mother who puts her children in Christian school and your school now is behind those new roads that these Mexican settlers built.

26:54Tucker Carlson:They built a new road that connects San Diego to Tijuana across the border. And you are a mother who wants to go, who wants to drop off her kids to a school that is beyond those bypass road only. And this is not theoretical for us. This is reality. When you go to Bezahul, you will see the settlements encircling the little town, choking it. It's like slow suffocation. It prevents it from its natural growth. That story that I told you about the mother is actually my cousin, who takes her children, she has twins and she has a six-year-old, to the American evangelical school built in Beit Sahur. And with this new settlement they have built, They have set up a roadblock, a checkpoint where Israeli come and man those checkpoints to protect the settlers.

27:52Now, one day she was taking her children to school and the Israeli army pointed guns at them.

27:58Tucker Carlson:Oh, come on. Instructing them to let the kids walk across the checkpoint to make it to the school to the other side. Now, this is not an isolated incident. This is not something that happens every once in a while. Their army is always present to protect the settlers. So my cousin told her, a six-year-old, you're strong, you can do this, and we can walk through it. The teacher on the other side is going to receive you. As soon as she walked, she held her head up high. She passed through the soldier, and she fainted at the feet of the school staff. Now, this brings a lot of psychological trauma.

28:45Tucker Carlson:It brings a lot of nightmares. That's what Christian families in Beit Sahur are experiencing. Now, I remember I told you about this, our home back in Beit Sahur. It's not too far from the school. It's not too far from the new settlement they are building in Beit Sahur. And down the road is the Israeli bypass road, which is only for settlers and Israeli armed vehicles. In 1990, we watched settlers come and go. There was an Israeli army vehicle that stopped. And we saw, I was 10 at that time. I saw an Israeli soldier stepping out of the vehicle, pointing a rifle at us, and he started shooting at us.

29:28Tucker Carlson:At you? We were a bunch of kids. I mean, my siblings, my mother was there, and some of my cousins. He started shooting live ammunition at us. And then my mother rushed us all into the door She was the last one to get in She caught a bullet in the back Your mother? Yes, my own mother Who loves the Lord and he loves Jesus And exit one, she dropped Come on She dropped on the floor, pool of blood I heard to the back door Called my dad, my uncle who was a physician Put pressure on the wound Took her to the hospital You saw this happen? This is in front of my eyes.

30:10Dr. Fares Abraham:My own mother. I'm sorry, I should say we've been talking off camera before we started this interview, and I didn't know the story. It's not in my interview notes. And I detected no bitterness whatsoever in anything that you said. I don't know how.

30:24Tucker Carlson:Okay.

30:24Dr. Fares Abraham:Sorry, so you're just shocking me. I didn't expect to hear that.

30:28Tucker Carlson:Palestinian Christians take the Sermon of the Mount very seriously. Apparently. When Jesus comes and he elevates our thinking, when he elevates our outlook on life, when he takes morality to a whole new standard, when he said, you have heard, do not kill. But I tell you, if you look at your brother and you call him raka, Aramaic word for fool or stupid, you just have committed the murder. And when he said, and remember the context, Jesus was talking to a Jewish audience who were under ruthless Roman occupation.

31:07Dr. Fares Abraham:Yes.

31:07Tucker Carlson:They were persecuted. They were discriminated against. It was very brutal to live under the Roman occupation. But Jesus is telling his followers, love your enemies. Pray for those who persecute you. This is something that we have grown up. We have grown up understanding the very essence and the meaning of this Sermon of the Mount. Wow.

31:33Dr. Fares Abraham:I'm sorry. I've totally derailed your story because I'm just shocked. I really didn't know that was coming. So you're 10 years old. You watch your mother get shot by... Okay, so many questions. Why did he do this? Do you know?

31:46Tucker Carlson:This has been just random. They do this not just to Palestinian Christians. I mean, that has been the policy. They do it to the Muslims. They do it to any Palestinians.

31:58Dr. Fares Abraham:Did she survive?

32:00Tucker Carlson:She did. Miraculous. The bullet was just millimeters away from the spine.

32:06Dr. Fares Abraham:It was an American rifle, I assume.

32:08Tucker Carlson:Who knows? Of course. We don't know the soldier. Five-five-six round, right.

32:11Dr. Fares Abraham:Okay, so that's my next question. So some soldier, your mother wasn't throwing rocks at him or screaming for jihad or anything?

32:18Tucker Carlson:We were just playing in front of the house. We were just kids playing.

32:23Dr. Fares Abraham:How can you live in this country and listen to people who have no idea what they're talking about?

32:29Tucker Carlson:This is the real threat of the new settlements. It's not just taking Christian land. It's not acquiring and taking by force the resources of the land, of Christian lands, who lived there for generations. It's inviting violent settlers to your neighborhood. they're coming to take the land. They're coming to squeeze. They're coming to crush. They're coming to dig.

32:57Dr. Fares Abraham:Why are they mad at you? What did you do?

33:01Tucker Carlson:Being born in the...

33:02Dr. Fares Abraham:I don't understand the hate, and I certainly have been the target of it, but I don't understand. I mean, I understand why people don't like me. I'm doing interviews like this, but I don't understand why... Why would someone shoot a mother in front of her children? Like, I just don't get that. Like, what is that?

33:21Tucker Carlson:You interviewed Bishop Hossam And he mentioned the story The recent story just last month Yes The attack on a Christian widow She's a Christian widow That a violent settler came to her property Grazing on the land with his cattle And then he hits her with a stone on her head Fractures her skull Takes her to She almost lost her life And when her son tried to defend her the son gets arrested by the Israeli military. And then when the settlers, bunch of settlers, they showed up at the house in the presence and the full support and the complicity of the Israeli army, they knocked down the door. Her daughter was inside, Neriman.

34:05Tucker Carlson:And I talked to her. She drew the sign of her cross. And when they found out that she was Christian, you know what the settler told her?

34:13Dr. Fares Abraham:What?

34:14Tucker Carlson:He told her, what are you doing here? This is not your land. You don't belong here. He said, go to France or go somewhere else. You don't belong here. God gave us this land. Now, this settler violence that has been on the rise, the town of Taipei where they burned centuries old church, they burned the crops, vandalized properties, write graffitis, spitting on clergy and pastors and leaders. all of these atrocities are done in broad daylight they're done without accountability and no one is is being held responsible for these atrocities well 2026 is likely to be the year that

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36:18Tucker Carlson:Tax Act is here anytime you want to easily file your taxes. Tax Act is here for the early birds who like to knock them out as soon as the season opens

36:27Dr. Fares Abraham:and for the procrastinators who like to wait until the very last minute.

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36:47Dr. Fares Abraham:Quick, choose a meal deal with McValue. The$5 Mexican meal deal, the$6 McDouble meal deal, or the new$7 Daily Double meal deal. Each with its own small fries, drink, and four-piece McNuggets. There's actually no rush. I'm just excited for McDonald's. For a limited time, only prices and participation may vary. Not valid for delivery. I was talking to my wife when I was on the road for a few weeks, and I was talking to her at breakfast this morning about that interview with the Anglican Archbishop that we did on the banks of the Jordan River. And we're Anglicans. We grew up in it. And the Anglican Church in the United States is, you know, it's not very Christian anymore.

37:22Dr. Fares Abraham:And I was telling her, that man, off camera, I said to him, people spit on you? And my first thought was, why don't you shoot them? Like, don't allow someone to spit. I didn't say that because I, you know, but that was my thought. Shows what a bad person I am. And he said, every time someone spits at me, I feel blessed. They spit at Jesus. And I was telling my wife, I think Christians who live in that kind of environment understand Christianity in a much deeper way than we do here. I think that. To hear you say that you don't feel bitterness, your mother didn't feel bitterness after being shot in front of her children for no reason?

37:58Dr. Fares Abraham:And this is what the gospel does. It transforms the heart.

38:01Tucker Carlson:Yes, I totally agree. It's, yes, I want to seek justice, but in the meantime, I don't want to allow hatred to poison my soul. I don't want...

38:14Dr. Fares Abraham:Okay, please, everyone watch this. Rewind. Watch that again. Can you say that again? I love that.

38:18Tucker Carlson:I don't want to allow the atrocities and the sins that have been committed against Christians to allow bitterness to grow in our hearts. Jesus provided a better way. Jesus gave us the example of forgiving and for loving our enemies. Jesus forgave the people who even crucified him. And that's the model. That's why Christians in the Holy Land are the salt of the earth, are the light in the midst of that darkness. And if we don't preserve that gospel witness, this is the reason I decided to do this interview with you, Kutthaler.

39:01Dr. Fares Abraham:And I said a prayer this morning in my sauna that God would speak through you, and he is.

39:06Tucker Carlson:It's the gospel witness. We want to keep the message of Christ alive in the lands of its birth. We want to share the good news of the gospel with every person who is traumatized, with every person who is suffering, with every child in Gaza who has lost everything. The only hope is to tell them that God loves them. The only hope is to break that cycle of violence between the Israelis and the Palestinians. is not going, I don't, you know, law will restrain your physical being. But God sets your spirit free. He sets your soul free.

39:48Dr. Fares Abraham:Ah, you're making me emotional. No, that's totally right.

39:51Tucker Carlson:He redeems us. And these are the basic values that are lived on daily basis by Christian Palestinians. Let me tell you about my friend Salam. Salam was the only child to his family who lived right down the street from me, closer to this Israeli bypass road. And on February 18, 1991, a hateful Israeli settler parked his vehicle next to Salam's house. and he shot him in the head inside his house through a window while having dinner with his family. A new settlement coming to town is going to pose real existential threat to everyone living there and the Christian witness will be diminished.

40:50Dr. Fares Abraham:So this is a part that's hard to understand as an American and let's just start a few minutes previous in the conversation. an Israeli soldier, IDF soldier, shoots your mother for no reason. Who is that soldier? Was there a trial? Did you ever hear what happened to him? I mean, these sound like dumb questions, but I'm an American. Was he punished? Like, what happened next?

41:12Tucker Carlson:We have no idea.

41:15Dr. Fares Abraham:So nobody from the occupation authority from the supposedly humane Western Israeli government ever went to your house and said, you know, we've questioned this guy or even followed up at all? Absolutely not. You see, this is the issue. They just shot your mother like an animal and then never.

41:30Tucker Carlson:The core issue here is that there's a culture of impunity. A lot of these acts, they go unchecked. Oh, I've noticed. It's a culture. And that comes, it's not insulated incidents. And just to give you numbers. Okay, the Rasing Center in Jerusalem. It's an Israeli human rights organization. So in case, you know, people discredit the Palestinian testimony, many Palestinian Christians, you know, we often get discredited. Oh, I've noticed.

42:01Dr. Fares Abraham:Yes.

42:01Tucker Carlson:And it breaks our heart when even our brothers and sisters in Christ do that.

42:07Dr. Fares Abraham:Well, I want to ask you about that because that's where I have trouble controlling.

42:10Tucker Carlson:Yeah, but I'm going to come back to the Rossing Center. They documented 111 attacks on Christians in 2024 alone. 111. You go to any Israeli human rights organization such as Beth Salem, He's now documenting every single incidence. And you will find a pattern that these attacks are not random. They don't happen out of the blue. They're systematic. Israel has created a pervasive system, and we call it a structural pressure, that they keep applying on the Christian population to push them out of their land. when I speak to Palestinian Christians in Beit Sahur, what they fear the most, they saw what's happening in Gaza.

43:00Tucker Carlson:They have relatives in Gaza and they fear that they are next. It's a real danger that is pointed at Beit Sahur community right now and this new settlement. And it's not the only settlement. I mean, Beit Sahur is surrounded by settlements. And we have long history of these settlers coming and taking Palestinian lands and building those, you know, lavish settlements.

43:26Dr. Fares Abraham:But ugly, very ugly.

43:28Tucker Carlson:You know, they fill up their swimming pools. They put their green grass, while Palestinian Christians, they wait for two or three weeks for a water truck to fill up their tanks on top of the roof. Giant black plastic tank that we're not allowed to even have running water. I've seen them.

43:49Dr. Fares Abraham:Can I ask, just because I don't want anything to fall through the cracks here, your friend who was murdered while having dinner by a settler. What happened to that settler?

43:58Tucker Carlson:Salam Misleh. We don't know who the seller was. He just stopped his vehicle, shot at him, and left.

44:04Dr. Fares Abraham:And Salam is not the only one. Wait, may I ask, like, was there no investigation of this? No one was arrested for it? Nope, absolutely not.

44:14Tucker Carlson:Salam is not the only one. There was another guy named Edmon Ghanem. You know, back in the days, this policy used to be in much bigger full force. They called it home mapping. I don't know if you're familiar with home mapping.

44:32Dr. Fares Abraham:I'm American. I don't know anything. I've been lied to about this for so long.

44:35Tucker Carlson:So thank God for an organization like Breaking the Silence, which is a group of former IDF soldiers, and they're there sharing their stories and their experiences in the West Bank. So home mapping is when an Israeli army decides to go into a Palestinian home for the purpose, quote unquote, of collecting intelligence. And what they usually do is they lock up the whole family in a room for a day or two and sometimes four weeks, and they take over the house. And this usually is done to give the new soldiers some practice and training. It's called home mapping. So when I grew up, and these are stories from my childhood Edmond was walking down the street When an Israeli soldier was on top of a Palestinian house roof Dropped a stone on Edmond and killed him instantly A Christian young man For no reason Anton Shomeli He was caught by an Israeli, you know, he ran away from the Israeli army.

45:42Tucker Carlson:For some reason, he got scared. They caught him and they shot him in a close proximity in cold blood. And I can give you stories of stories. Those are not terrorists. Those are not people who seek violence. Those are people who want to simply stay in their land, work, live, have a future, live in peace. And let me tell you, highlighting the violence of the settlers does not mean we ignore the violence committed by some Palestinians. I mean, as Christians, we recognize there are some Palestinians who carry out attacks and inflict terror on innocent Israelis as well. And we're not going to bury our heads in the sand and say, oh, it doesn't happen.

46:36Tucker Carlson:You know, stabbing, ramming into some Israeli citizens. And as Christian Palestinian American, we condemn any attacks on any civilians. We condemn any form of violence to achieve justice. This is the very core of the Christian message. We reject violence altogether. Palestinian Christians have always extending the hands of making peace with our Jewish neighbors, with our Muslim neighbors, with everyone. We just want to live in peace. So we condemn violence at all levels. But there is a difference between when a Palestinian commits a violence versus when a settler commits a violence. When a Palestinian commits a violence, wrong to be condemned, not to be condoned, to kill innocent civilians, usually he or she are shot on the spot.

47:24Tucker Carlson:And if they make it out alive, they get detained and they're thrown in prison. And right now the Israeli government is really pushing hard to pass a law to legalize the death penalty in Israel for Palestinians. But anyway, he gets thrown in prison. His house, his family, his family's house gets demolished and his family gets a security block not to travel anywhere outside town, collectively punishing the parents for the crime that their son or their daughter committed. Now, this is what happens. So when a Palestinian commits a crime, this happens. But when a settler commits a crime, there is an Israeli army that backs it up.

48:08Tucker Carlson:There is a system that gives it impunity. And this is the grave injustice. As a Christian minister, this is why I come to your show and say, this should not be done. especially when Christians are supporting this without knowing the facts and the reality on the ground. This is what really -

48:29Dr. Fares Abraham:Some of them do know the facts and reality on the ground. And I don't think that applies to your average evangelical Christian Zionist in the United States. I don't think they have any idea. But some of their leaders know perfectly well what's happening. And I, because I know them and I know that they know.

48:42Tucker Carlson:And they know the Christians by name and they have their data and they know where they live.

48:48Dr. Fares Abraham:so and i want to get i've i've way too many questions for you but thankfully we have time um but this seems like a good time to try to understand what's going on there and i've already admitted that's where my anger lies is toward you know the people like me christians in america who um are making excuses for this or or abetting it making it possible what is that why is that happening october 7 was horrific yes i agree it was

49:17Tucker Carlson:horrible what Hamas has done, killing innocent civilians, kidnapping babies.

49:23Dr. Fares Abraham:I totally agree.

49:24Tucker Carlson:This is wrong. This needs to be condemned. And Palestinian Christians have been consistent in condemning violence to achieve justice, as I said. But the overwhelming suffering lies on Gaza right now. The disproportionate response. I was in South Africa on October 7. I was getting ready to speak at a Christian conference before 5 ,000 people in the room in Cape Town. And before I got up there, my phone started all kinds of notifications going on. And I learned about October 7th. Immediately that night, I went on my hotel room and I recorded a video. I said, I condemn this horror. This is not the way we need to condone.

50:13Tucker Carlson:We condemn this act of violence. But in the meantime, I said, I leaned over to my friend, my pastor friend, and I said, I am shaking because of the level of retaliation that the Israeli military is going to respond.

50:31Dr. Fares Abraham:Well, you grew up with it, so you knew.

50:33Tucker Carlson:My wife grew up in Gaza Baptist Church. Gaza Baptist Church. Not too many people know that Baptists have made it all the way to Gaza. No. And Gaza Baptist Church was burned, was bombed. There was some famine.

50:52Dr. Fares Abraham:Gaza Baptist Church was bombed?

50:53Tucker Carlson:Yes. Now imagine that First Baptist Church of Dallas people were bombed.

51:00Dr. Fares Abraham:Were of Little Rock.

51:02Tucker Carlson:I believe the whole United States Army and Marine and military and Air Force will be going after the perpetrator.

51:10Dr. Fares Abraham:Maybe not. But yeah, no, it would be obvious that that is a crime. I just don't understand, and I've raised this question many, many times with Christian leaders in the United States. What did the Baptists in Gaza do wrong? Why are we paying to bomb their church? Do you know?

51:30Tucker Carlson:It's not just the Baptists. It's all the Palestinian people are being collectively punished in Gaza. And what happened in Gaza, it's really horrific atrocity that no one should be, you know, if it doesn't shake us at our core, I don't think we have any humanity.

51:45Dr. Fares Abraham:Well, we're Americans, so we have no idea what's happened in Gaza. So why don't you tell us?

51:52Tucker Carlson:In October, there was a bomb that killed 17 Christians. Historic church was bombed. Fifth century church. was bombed in gaza in gaza and killed so many christians there is there is a lady that played the piano at gaza baptist church her name was ilham farah she was an icon music icon in gaza everybody loved her she was 84. she went to her to her house to check on the house if it's still standing or not she gets sniped shot in the leg by an israeli soldier left to bleed to death for three agonizing days. She was on the phone until her phone was dead on one of my closest friends. He was with her on the phone.

52:35Tucker Carlson:And a few weeks later when they went to bury her, they found out that the Israeli tank rolled over her body. Ilham Farah. She played the piano. She was part of the worship team in Gaza Baptist Church. Nahida and some... When did this happen? That was in November 2023. So we know it was a vengeance campaign. It was a retaliation.

52:59Dr. Fares Abraham:But why a vengeance against 84-year-old Christian piano players? Like, what does she have to do with it?

53:05Tucker Carlson:Nahida and Samar Anton, another two ladies, a lady in her 80s and her daughter. They were gunned by an Israeli sniper on church ground, Holy Family Church, that was also later on bombed and three people were killed. Those are real stories Those are real people who have suffered Because of this military power That is directed on them day and day and night And the whole idea is really honestly Is getting rid of Palestinians Is pushing them out Doesn't matter whether they're Christians or Muslims That has been the strategy And now they're taking a different approach in the West Bank by suffocating the communities, by creating as many Israeli settlements as possible so they can squeeze the communities out.

54:00Tucker Carlson:They push them out of their land.

54:02Dr. Fares Abraham:And when you were a child, there were Israeli settlements near your home.

54:06Tucker Carlson:Yes.

54:07Dr. Fares Abraham:Did you ever have positive interactions with the settlers?

54:11Tucker Carlson:You know, to be honest with you, some settlers have no idea. They just moved in there. And again, we can't really paint with white brush and say all these people are evil. But there is a system that is enabling this evil to take place.

54:25Dr. Fares Abraham:Some settlers, it's just cheaper, right, to live out there.

54:27Tucker Carlson:They get subsidized and they get government subsidies to move into the West Bank. And they call it Judea and Samaria. And unfortunately, going back to your questions, there is an organization, not just one, but there's one that I know of. and they boast about it on their website, that they have raised and spent$3.5 billion to support these settlements and to bring people from all over the world to return to their ancestral homeland of Judea and Samaria. And they raised those$3.5 billion from evangelical Christians, from Christians in the United States. Now, if you're American here and you go to church, you love Jesus, you love scriptures just like we do, you worship every Sunday, you're involved in ministry, you're volunteering at your local church.

55:22Tucker Carlson:And if you hear the vision from your pastors that, hey, we're, you know, the Jewish people, they have gone under severe, horrific holocausts during World War II. and now we have the opportunity to bring some of these survivors back to Israel, to their homeland. If you're an American watching this and hearing this, wow, this sounds really great. This sounds very noble. And I agree. I mean, as a Palestinian, I want the Jewish people to live in safety and dignity. Of course. But it doesn't have to come at the expense of the local Christian Palestinians and the local Palestinian indigenous people who have lived in that land for the past 2 ,000 years.

56:12Tucker Carlson:You see, what they're telling you is that this is a great vision. It's, you know, Christian, when they hear about Zionism, it's a compelling vision. It's bringing people who don't have any land and create a homeland.

56:27Dr. Fares Abraham:A land without people for a people without land.

56:29Tucker Carlson:Yes, but the land had people. I know. So what do you do to create room is you keep pushing them out.

56:36Dr. Fares Abraham:So - Can I ask what you referred to Judea and Samaria? I know that under Ron DeSantis in the state of Florida, it's now like required by law to call it Judea and Samaria. What we call the West Bank, which was part of Jordan, formerly Transjordan, whatever. But it's -

56:53Tucker Carlson:Yes.

56:54Dr. Fares Abraham:Right outside Jerusalem. Yeah. All the way to the Jordan River. It's the West Bank and Jordan River. that area was taken from Jordan in the Six-Day War in 1967. Okay. Yeah. And so we've called it my whole life, the West Bank. Yeah. And now we're required to call it Judea and Samaria. And I mean, I guess I don't really care. I wonder why some American politicians telling me what I have to call a place across the ocean, but because he's taking a lot of money from proponents of this, of course. But like, why are they so intent on forcing me to call it Judea and Samaria? I honestly don't understand.

57:29Tucker Carlson:It's not just Florida. I mean, I love Florida. I do too. It's a great sunshine state. You know, I moved here in 2020 because I heard that Governor DeSantis banned COVID here. Amen. So we moved here because we love Florida and we still enjoy it. But they passed a law to call Judea. But why is some American politician telling me that? It's many different states who are seeking to change the name. And for us, you know, I'm a Christian. Yes, it's the biblical name. That's what Judea and Samaria was called when Jesus was there. But instead of really worrying about calling a region a biblical name, why can't we apply biblical principles?

58:14Dr. Fares Abraham:No, but I'm just saying like, what's the, so the Israelis are telling our lawmakers, you must force your people to use these words. And they're doing that across our society. And they say they're doing it. So they're doing it. But why? Why does it matter to them?

58:29Tucker Carlson:They want to invoke divine rights. They want to make the connection that this land divinely and theologically belongs to one group of people. Now, if you look at the West Bank, let's break it down. There is a legal implication, but there's also a moral and theological implication. The legal implication, the U.S. politicians hate it. They don't like to get into the legal complexity of the West Bank because it's a losing case. The whole world agrees that the Israeli settlements are illegally built by an occupying force on Palestinian land. The land is occupied according to the United Nations, Fourth Geneva Convention, United Nations Resolution, Security Council, even.

59:20Tucker Carlson:This has been the longstanding U.S. policy for the past 50 years. I don't know if you remember the Hansel memo, which stipulates that this land is occupied and the settlements are illegal. Now, from different administrations, the language is different. Some administrations, like Obama, they call it obstacle to peace. Some administrations call it illegitimate settlements that are preventing and hindering the two-state solution. But interestingly, in Trump's first administration, when Mike Pompeo was the Secretary of State, he rescinded the Hansel memo. And he said, those Israeli settlements are not per se inconsistent with international law, whatever that means.

1:00:10But basically, these are not illegal. They have a legal right to Judea and Samaria.

1:00:20Tucker Carlson:For me, okay, I'm not a politician. I'm not a legal expert. I'm a Christian minister. I look at the issue from a biblical perspective, from a moral perspective. What are the biblical implications of this? Does God really approve displacement? Of stealing? Of land theft? And there's a biblical story actually about this, Tucker. You know, when the evil king of Israel, Ahab, he had an evil woman wife named Jezabel. They looked over and they saw a vineyard owned by Naboth. And they loved that vineyard. They said, man, we want to take it. And being the king of Israel, they could have invoked divine rights.

1:01:08Tucker Carlson:He's the king appointed, ordained by God. But unfortunately, he was a dishonorable king. He did not obey the ways of the Lord. So I don't know how much divine rights he can claim. But let's say for the sake of argument, they claim divine rights. They went and they tried to acquire the vineyard legally. They offered Naboth money. Naboth refused to sell. So what do they do? They conspire and they kill Naboth and they steal the land and they take it. It's the state backed by divine rights stealing innocent man's land.

1:01:47Dr. Fares Abraham:May I ask, did God notice that they did this?

1:01:50Tucker Carlson:Of course he did.

1:01:50Dr. Fares Abraham:Oh, he did.

1:01:52Tucker Carlson:He sent the prophet Elijah to stand before Ahab and tell him, what you did was wrong. God is going to judge you for it. Now, I wonder as a Palestinian Christian. And then what happened? Where are the Elijahs of our world? Where is the church standing up to this injustice?

1:02:18Dr. Fares Abraham:So, they're cowards and they're making the wrong choice. They're going to have to answer for this.

1:02:22Tucker Carlson:And let me be very honest with you, Tucker. We can't paint with a white brush. There have been so many great American missionaries who have come to the Middle East, who have labored in the Middle East. A lot of great churches have given sweat and blood for the Middle East. They built great schools. We have one in Beit Sahur, an evangelical church in Beit Sahur. And they have built hospitals. They have built schools. They have planted churches. But there is a stream of Christians that has disproportionate power and influence on U.S. policy. And it's that policy that is inflicting pain and suffering on a community like Beit Sahur.

1:03:16Tucker Carlson:This is the core issue. I know. And they're doing it in the name of the Bible, where the Bible is innocent.

1:03:24Dr. Fares Abraham:I got a lecture this morning from an Israeli. This morning, you know, I'm not an anti-Semite. I abhor anti-Semitism. It's against my religion. I've said that a thousand times and I mean it. If I was an anti-Semite, I'd just say I'm an anti-Semite. I am not an anti-Semite. and I'm never going to become one, no matter what they say. So I'm talking, you know, like, what do you want me to do to prove I'm not an anti-Semite? 100 % recant your attacks on Christian Zionism. It wasn't stop saying mean things about the Jews. I've never said do you mean things about the Jews. I don't feel bad things about the Jews.

1:03:55Dr. Fares Abraham:I'm not mad at the Jews, period. I'm mad, as I've said a million times, about my people, Christians, distorting the gospel in a way that allows theft and murder and the degradation of human beings. I just, I'm never going to be okay with that. And that's what they're mad at me about is because I've called out Christian Zionism because they see that. I just had this conversation an hour ago, so it's fresh in mind.

1:04:22Tucker Carlson:Yes.

1:04:22Dr. Fares Abraham:They see that as critical. You have to have American evangelical pastors telling their congregations who are sweet people who don't know any better. Yes. that God wants you to support the state of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu. That's what they, they need that. Yes.

1:04:41Tucker Carlson:Is that fair, do you think? What Christian Zionists get wrong here is that not because they want to create a safe place for the Jewish people. That could be an honorable cause. Yes, I agree. But the process, the implication of what that means, To them, Christian Zionism means creating a safe place for the Jews where they can feel safe and secure, which is honorable, great.

1:05:07Dr. Fares Abraham:Got it.

1:05:08Tucker Carlson:But for Palestinians, Christian Zionism means taking our land, taking our resources, while declaring that you have a divine right and the descendants of the shepherds in the little town of Beit Sahur, who have maintained their Christian presence for the past 2 ,000 years, do not somehow have that same divine right. Our ancestors were Jewish. Palestinian Christians they first accepted the message of Christ and that church is still intact today as I said some people even converted when Islam came to Palestine some people converted but they did not convert from atheism Muslims converted from Christianity and probably some Jews even converted to Islam so you might have some Muslims they can claim that they have a Jewish DNA.

1:06:04Tucker Carlson:But again, identity changes. It's dynamic. Of course. Language changes, but the people are there.

1:06:13Dr. Fares Abraham:So I think now's a good time to ask you to explain what Christian Zionism is. And I'm at a disadvantage because I'm so ignorant. I just didn't grow up around this at all. So as fairly as you can, can you explain what Christian Zionism, and I should say you came to the United States I went to Liberty University, correct? Yes. Lots of great people there. Lots of Christian scientists there. Lots. So I think you understand it, right?

1:06:38Tucker Carlson:What is it? And I loved my time at Liberty University. So thankful for the great education I got there. I had to meet a lot of great friends, great professors. My life was changed there. I actually rededicated my life. And I committed my life to service at Liberty University. and I received the vision to start Levant Ministries at Liberty, which is the organization I now lead. But here is where, you know, Christian Zionism have a different understanding. It's a theological movement that says that God has two distinct people with two distinct plans and two distinct covenant. when Mike Huckabee was asked on, he was on an interview at TBN, Trinity Broadcasting Network.

1:07:32Tucker Carlson:And he was asked, what is the verse that guides your day-to-day job as a U.S. ambassador in Israel? You know what he said? He said Genesis 12.3. I want to be able to bless Israel so I can be blessed. I want to secure all the blessings for Israel so the United States can receive the blessings in return. so for us we have to look at this theology do you know what that means to me as someone who's

1:08:04Dr. Fares Abraham:interested in words a former editor book writer i care about definitions and so when christian zionists say israel what are they talking about that's a great question because as christians we

1:08:16Tucker Carlson:have to look at the scripture through the lens of Christ. Christ is the point. Christ is the fulfillment. And the way I look at scriptures, I look at the Old Testament, the faithful and the righteous people of the Old Testament, and the righteous and the faithful people of the New Testament as one faith community. They're beautifully connected through the cross. The moment that you start separating this, this is when you start getting into different interpretation of what Israel means today. Is it the government of Israel? Are God's people or not? But when we look at the gospel, we see Jesus as the very center.

1:08:59Tucker Carlson:We look at the Old Testament with the lens of the gospel. We see Jesus in the Old Testament. And what Jesus did is very critical. And it really is important for us to understand what Jesus did in the new covenant he brought and how it changed and it transformed the old covenant that God had with Abraham. Yes. It didn't abolish it. It didn't replace it, which is, you know, we're not replacement theology. I do not agree with replacement theology. God is not done with the Jews. God is not done with anybody. God wants everybody to come to the saving knowledge and to enjoy his grace and to enjoy his blessings.

1:09:41Tucker Carlson:God desires this for God so loved the world, right? But what Jesus did, he did not replace the Jews. But it was a journey that God started with Abraham. And when they called Genesis 12, 3, that was a private conversation between God and Abraham. And God came to Abraham and told him, you no longer are called Abrams, but you're going to be called Abraham, the father with all nations. So God's original plan is to redeem all nations, is to bless the whole world through the seed of Abraham. And when you look at the New Testament, you read a verse like Galatians 3, 16, where it says, Abraham has one seed.

1:10:25Tucker Carlson:He didn't say seeds. and through that seed, you get to enjoy all the Abrahamic blessings. So what Jesus came to do, and it's that seed, of course, it's Christ. And that journey that Abraham started with God, it's still in motion today. It didn't divert. It didn't get replaced. It didn't get, oh, well, Jesus came and his people didn't accept him. So let's go to plan P. There was always one plan for God's redemption and God's salvation. It started in Abraham and it culminated in Jesus. And we are the extension of that Abrahamic blessing. So if I put my faith and trust in Jesus Christ, I get to claim the Abrahamic blessings in Genesis 12.3.

1:11:15Dr. Fares Abraham:Well, it seems that way. But I guess I don't, I mean, I have so many questions, but I mean, first of all, how could Christians ever support any movement that rejects Jesus? I just don't, I don't understand that. How could we, we could say we feel so sorry for people who reject Jesus. We want to help them.

1:11:35Tucker Carlson:In simple terms, I think Christian Zionism has replaced Jesus with the current state of Israel.

1:11:40Dr. Fares Abraham:Obviously, that's why I think it's heresy. And I don't mean that in a, I mean, like I should be calling anyone else a heretic. I've lived such a bad life, but, and I'm not, I hope it don't sound self-righteous. I just don't understand. It's like, I thought Christianity was about following Jesus and Jesus was the key. Is it not? You're the minister.

1:11:58Tucker Carlson:What Jesus did, he did two important things that we cannot overlook. He expanded the scope of the promise of Abraham.

1:12:07Dr. Fares Abraham:To everybody, right?

1:12:07Tucker Carlson:To everybody. And he expanded the meaning of the promise. Okay. And let me unpack this for a little bit for the viewers to really understand the theological importance and significance of this. So when he expanded the scope of the promise, what is the promise? He expanded it from a mere geographical location alongside the Mediterranean coastline to include the whole earth. Yes. The New Testament spells it out. The apostle Paul, you know, in his letters to the Romans, Romans 4.13, he said, by faith, God made Abraham the heir of the whole world. Exactly. I've read it. So for God's all of the world that he gave his only son, that whosoever, right?

1:12:56Tucker Carlson:So not only expanded the geographical location of the land, he also expanded the ethnic line of the people to include every tribe, every nation, every tongue.

1:13:09Dr. Fares Abraham:It says that again and again and again and again. And that's the story of Acts. It's a story of Revelation. It's the story of the whole New Testament.

1:13:16Tucker Carlson:That's what Jesus instructed his disciples to do. He said, hey, leave your nationalistic aspiration aside. We have a kingdom to build. The kingdom of God is at hand. The kingdom of God is among you. So they let go of their dreams to build the kingdom for Israel. And they went and they paid for their life for the kingdom, the eternal kingdom of God. So Jesus expanded the geography. He is the locus of the land. He is the one that speaks in Hebrew that, you know, if we enter in Jesus, we find rest. The land does not give us rest anymore. So he expanded the geography. He expanded the ethnic line to include every nation ever tried.

1:14:00Tucker Carlson:And that always, by the way, Takar, it's been always God's plan that way. In Psalm, the Old Testament, chapter 2, verse 8, it says, Ask me and I will give you the nations as your inheritance. So God's plan has been always the whole world, redeeming the whole world, restoring the whole world. And it's been always inclusive for all people, all ethnicity.

1:14:23Dr. Fares Abraham:It's so clear and it's clear in Jesus's ministry. I'm spending the year just reading the four gospels again and again. And that jumps out at me. I mean, who does Jesus praise most? The Roman officer. I've not seen anyone with faith like this in Israel, right? Some pagan guy. Yes. Right.

1:14:43Tucker Carlson:But the meaning of the promise, and this is important, what does it mean? Do we inherit a holy land between the river and the Mediterranean? Or does it mean something else? The meaning of that promise have also been transformed. It's not just the scope of the promise. It's the meaning of the promise. From temporary to eternal. From physical to spiritual. From conditional, because it was conditional, by the way. He didn't just give them the land and say, this is your land. It's God's lands, by the way. He is the landlord. And the people that were given the land, they were tenants. And they have to obey the commandments of the Lord.

1:15:26Tucker Carlson:They have to love their neighbors. They have to take care of the foreigners among them. And when they don't obey the covenant that was given to them, God always kicked them out.

1:15:40Dr. Fares Abraham:Oh, yeah, they get taken to Babylon.

1:15:42Tucker Carlson:Yes, twice. And the Old Testament gives graphic language when it describes for Israel not obeying the laws of the Lord. It says the land will vomit you out. Excuse my language. So it was conditional when it was given to Abraham. But in Jesus, it's secure. It's eternal. It's no longer. And you know, what really makes me fall in love with Jesus and the patriarchs and the fathers, the church fathers, and the church throughout history, and the Palestinian church really understand this because they truly understand the meaning of the covenant. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, it spells it out in Hebrews that they were eagerly looking for the new Jerusalem.

1:16:36Tucker Carlson:Whose architect and builder is God. They were not fixated on a mere strip of land. That's temporary. That's going to be gone. We should be focused on what's eternal. And obviously when Jesus came and he was in John 18, when he was being tried before Pilate, the charge was, are you a king? Are you threatening me? Are you a threat to my kingdom and my dominion? Jesus said, yes, I am a king, but my kingdom is not from this world. My kingdom is not from here. Why are we bringing back a pre-Christian territorial mindset to the church today?

1:17:21Dr. Fares Abraham:Well, exactly. And it is pre-Christian. It's not Western at all. It's Eastern. And collective punishment is the sign that we're not dealing with a Western mindset at all because we reject collective punishment. I may be mad at you. I can't kill your kids. Not allowed.

1:17:37Tucker Carlson:Yes. And there are some sincere dispensationalists. Let me say this. I have some dispensational friends. And Christians should debate this vigorously, but it should stay in the seminary. It should be staying within the walls of the church.

1:17:50Dr. Fares Abraham:Well, that's the problem. I haven't even gotten involved in it because I'm just too ignorant, okay? When you said replacement theology, I don't know what that is that I'm not going to learn. All I know is that Christianity, my read of it is just focus on Jesus and you will be transformed. And so I'm just kind of stick with that. But as a political matter, and that's what I do cover and have my whole life, I don't understand what Ambassador Huckabee for example, is saying when he says, bless Israel. Okay. What is Israel? So my read of Genesis is it goes from like a tributary of the Euphrates in Iraq all the way, you know, to the Nile.

1:18:27Dr. Fares Abraham:So that's like six countries. What are the boundaries?

1:18:31Tucker Carlson:And that's still too small for God.

1:18:33Dr. Fares Abraham:Of course, as a theological matter. But I think if we're speaking in political terms, This is a government run by, you know, secular people by and large. And they're saying God gave us this land. Okay, what land? What are the boundaries? We should at least define the terms. Second, who's we? What does it mean? Who are the people who inherited this? So the prime minister of Israel is not religious. He doesn't keep the Sabbath or keep kosher. I'm not attacking him. I'm just saying like, then what are you talking about? Are you saying you have a genetic inheritance? Like what? Okay, let's say.

1:19:03Tucker Carlson:Can someone who converts to Judaism claims divine right from Brooklyn, New York.

1:19:08Dr. Fares Abraham:I don't even want to have these conversations. They're the ones pushing them. I think people, I'm happy to let people practice their own religions. I don't want to get involved. I don't want to know everything about Mormonism or Islam or whatever. It's fine. But as long as you're saying you have a right to my money and your parents' land on the basis of this promise in Genesis, I have a right to ask you what the heck you're talking about.

1:19:31Tucker Carlson:Did you know that Israel goes out of its way to prevent Messianic believers from making Aliyah? No. Jewish believers in Jesus. If they find out that you believed in Jesus, they don't give you the right to immigrate to Israel. What? So whose land?

1:19:52Dr. Fares Abraham:Is that true?

1:19:53Tucker Carlson:Whose promise? Yeah. I have a lot of Jewish friends who are believers in Jesus and they share with me.

1:19:58Dr. Fares Abraham:And they can't move back to Israel and get all the rights of...

1:20:03Tucker Carlson:Not as...

1:20:04Dr. Fares Abraham:So they're really... Okay, so now that we're talking like present-day concrete political realities, there are two claims that they could potentially be making. One is faith-based. So I believe in this religion called Judaism. And we could debate what that religion is. Is it Talmudic or rabbinic? Whatever. That's a whole separate conversation that I don't want to have, but they're pushing this. But it's either faith-based, I believe in this, or it's blood-based. It's genetic.

1:20:31Tucker Carlson:They have also historical claims. Say Jews been here. But who are the Jews then?

1:20:36Dr. Fares Abraham:Do you have more DNA? I don't know if you even know the answer, but if we were to say, okay, who lived in first century Palestine, current day Israel, are you more closely related to those people or is Benjamin Netanyahu more closely related to those people?

1:20:52Tucker Carlson:They should do DNA tests and see. And I did my DNA test. Palestinian Christians are Levantine of origin.

1:20:59Dr. Fares Abraham:So it's likely that you have more Jewish ancestors than Benjamin Netanyahu's families from Europe. Probably. Okay. So then it can't be genetic because, right?

1:21:11Tucker Carlson:Yes. Well, again, as Christians, we have to put the gospel lens. Well, I agree. We can't ignore what Jesus did. And this is the significance. You know, when Jesus went into Nazareth, his hometown synagogue on a Saturday, He was baptized, went in the wilderness, got tried with the devil, overcame with scripture, and then he went to his hometown. The scroll from Isaiah was handed to them. And he said, this is the Nazareth manifesto. This is the first sermon he's ever preached, Jesus. Started, launched his ministry in Nazareth. And it's so beautiful. He said, the spirit of the Lord is upon me. He has sent me to set the captive free, to bring sight to the blind, to proclaim the good news to the poor.

1:21:56Tucker Carlson:Everybody in the synagogue was so happy. And remember the context. It was a lot of tension between the Jews and the Romans. So the Jews were waiting for the Messiah, but they were waiting for a military liberator. They were waiting for a politician to come and lead them against the Romans. But then Jesus gave two sermon illustrations. One about a widow from Sidon, which is current modern day of Lebanon. He said, not because there weren't so many widows in Israel, that Elijah was sent to the Sidonian widow. Okay, a foreigner. Keep in mind.

1:22:34Dr. Fares Abraham:When there were lots of needy widows in Israel at the time.

1:22:36Tucker Carlson:But he went to a foreigner. And not because there weren't so many people with leprosy, which is a skin disease. That God's grace through Elisha, Elijah's servant, reached a Syrian army commander whose name is Naaman. So Jesus is saying the foreigner gets to enjoy God's blessings and God's favor. And the enemy from Aram gets to enjoy God's blessings and God's favor. When they heard this, they were furious. They took him to the edge of the town that it was built on, and they wanted to throw him over the cave.

1:23:13Dr. Fares Abraham:To murder him, yeah.

1:23:16Tucker Carlson:So Jesus' message, if we keep it central and focused, it disrupts all this exclusive mindset. Why can't we share the land? Why can't we live in peace? We are extending an olive branch and saying, let's find, obviously there is 7 million Jews and 7 million Palestinians living currently between the river and the sea. obviously they're not going to kick the Palestinians out, although they've been trying very, very hard to do that. And had Egypt opened the borders in Gaza, I think the whole population would have been pushed out. And they are trying to do it very, very closely to the Christians in Bethlehem right now by bringing many different settlements and making life extremely miserable, restricted movement on all of that.

1:24:06So obviously, the people are still there.

1:24:10Tucker Carlson:They're not going to kick us out. The other option is that the Palestinians are going to kick the Israelis out. And for me as a Christian-Palestinian, I don't want to see that happen. I don't want to see another tragedy inflicted upon the Jewish people. So the bottom line, and this is the posture, and this is the attitude, and this is the position that every single follower of Jesus must adopt and follow. let's find a way to share the land. Let's find a way to make peace instead of getting caught in end time scenarios, something speculative sometime in the future. What is that? Or, you know, preferring another group of people over another.

1:24:57Tucker Carlson:It's superiority. It's becoming an ethnostate. Are we going to keep it as an ethnostate or can we find a diplomatic solution? The danger is when Christian politicians start to mix the politics with theology and they come up with this formula that is indigestible, hard to solve, sows confusion, and it keeps people on the sideline instead of actively engaging and becoming peacemakers.

1:25:29Dr. Fares Abraham:Well, boy, you like every, you know, the Levantine peoples are so diplomatic. It's like unbelievable. Yeah, it's way worse than that. I mean, you wind up, I mean, as I know you know, you wind up with Christian politicians who are constantly invoking the name of Jesus, supporting the murder of their fellow Christians in the Levant. So like that is very, I think that's very serious. I don't think you should do that. I think you're going to suffer for that. Like, don't do that. How can you excuse or aid in the murder of innocence in the name of Jesus? And I've said this directly to a bunch of these politicians because I get very upset about it.

1:26:15Dr. Fares Abraham:And they're like under a spell. Like they don't, even in private, they're like, well, we have to.

1:26:21Tucker Carlson:What is that? Last December, the state of Israel, the foreign ministry of the state of Israel, sponsored a summit in Jerusalem. They brought 1 ,000 U.S. pastors to Israel to attend military briefings. Military briefings? Yes. The head of the state was there. The prime minister was there. They were commissioning them as ambassadors, not for Jesus, but for the state of Israel. They were talking about this unholy alliance being formed.

1:26:57Dr. Fares Abraham:Oh, they attacked me by name, I know.

1:26:59Tucker Carlson:Right, and they attacked you and all of that. But what really caught my attention, Tucker, when I was reading over the website of that summit, I was reading some notes and some guidelines, do's and don'ts. One of the guidelines, it's a Christian ministry also who's organizing this with the Foreign Ministry Affairs. One of the guidelines stated that do not speak of the name of Jesus. Preaching is not allowed in Jerusalem. Express your faith through acts of kindness and all that, but do not mention Jesus. Why? When I read that, my mind went back all the way to the book of Acts, chapter 5. When the spiritual elites in Jerusalem, they summoned Peter and the disciples.

1:27:51Tucker Carlson:And you know what they told them? Do not speak of the name of Jesus. Imagine those pastors coming to Jerusalem to not be able to share their faith and to share about their Christ and their Messiah, the hope. That's one thing. The other thing, none of these pastors, they went and they prayed over dead stones. They went over and prayed over the Western walls, which is, you know, fine, they can do that. but none of them stepped afoot in a Christian church.

1:28:22Dr. Fares Abraham:No.

1:28:23Tucker Carlson:None of them visited the local Christian population.

1:28:27Dr. Fares Abraham:They didn't go to the Church of the Holy Sepulchre?

1:28:29Tucker Carlson:Not to my knowledge. It wasn't part of the itinerary.

1:28:34Dr. Fares Abraham:How can Church of the Holy Sepulchre, obviously one of the most holy places in Christendom, it's where Christians believe Jesus' tomb was, sepulchre, tomb. Yes. And it's a wonderful place, amazing place. one of the great places in the world, in my opinion. How could you not go there if you're a Christian minister?

1:28:52Tucker Carlson:Mike Johnson, the Speaker of the House. Oh, yes. He's a very prominent evangelical third-in-line presidency. Last August, he went to Israel. He prayed the Western Wall. He went to a settlement in the West Bank. And he planted trees in those settlements in the West Bank. And he declared that these Judeans and Sumerian hills belong to the Jewish people by divine right.

1:29:26Dr. Fares Abraham:We're going to be so punished for this. We're going to be punished for this. I'm just telling you.

1:29:30Tucker Carlson:He never interacted and met with the, you know, people go and visit the dead stones, but they forget about the living stones. There are people there who are suffering because of this system that keeps oppressing them and applying pressure. And their numbers are shrinking. The people are leaving. And people throw this number. Well, it's because of other pressures. No, Israel is the only place in the Middle East, the only democracy in the Middle East that Christians feel respected and protected. You know, the prime minister of Israel. What year were you born? I was born in 1980.

1:30:12Dr. Fares Abraham:Okay, so you grew up under the Israeli government as a Christian.

1:30:16Tucker Carlson:Yeah, and I watched also the Oslo Accord.

1:30:18Dr. Fares Abraham:Yeah, so I mean, like, I'm talking, you're sitting right here. Is that, what do you think when you hear that?

1:30:23Tucker Carlson:And I still minister there. Our ministry still serves in the Palestinian territories. And we serve in Jordan, and we serve in Egypt. And our ministry is focused on reaching young people, equipping them and empowering them so they can be agents of change in their communities so they can become peacemakers. This is why I left my secular job in DC, a very successful job, and committed my life to this mission because the Christian presence in the Middle East is at the brink of extension. If we don't do anything about it, especially in Bethsaou right now, there'll be no Christians left.

1:30:58Dr. Fares Abraham:But just to be clear, under the Israelis, it's at the point of extinction. Having survived the Romans and the Crusaders and the Ottomans and the English, it's under the Israelis that the Christians are about to go extinct. This is exactly why I am not going to be silent anymore.

1:31:17Tucker Carlson:Not because I'm not an activist. I don't go on podcasts and just start talking. But when I see something against the values that we believe in, the biblical values, against the character of God, I have to be that prophetic voice and say, not in our name. Jesus showed us a better way. Jesus taught his followers to be the salt, to be the light, to be the peacemaker. He entrusted us with the ministry of reconciliation. How much reconciliation efforts are we doing? We're given money and billions of dollars to build these settlements

1:32:00Tucker Carlson:and taking the land from Christians, but we're spending little to no money in peace initiatives, in reconciliation efforts, in understanding, in mutual understanding. And there are so many Christian-led organizations on the ground that are doing amazing work in raising up the next generation. That's the whole reason I'm putting my life on the line. not to see Palestinian Christians and the next generation of Palestinians go hopeless and in despair.

1:32:33Dr. Fares Abraham:Are you, I mean, the violence and the worship of violence there is really like no place I'm aware of in the world. And, you know, people who follow this already know that and everybody's afraid. Yes. I have noticed when we're going to Israel and more people have called me, you know, ooh, be careful. Everyone's afraid. Are you afraid?

1:32:57Tucker Carlson:Absolutely. I mean, the people we serve in Bethlehem, when we tell the parents that we're taking your kids to Jerusalem, whenever Israelis allow us to get permits, it's becoming really very rare now that Israelis would allow Christians from Bethlehem, which is five kilometers away, to go and spend a day in Jerusalem. But when we do get their permits and we tell them—

1:33:21Dr. Fares Abraham:You don't get permits. Christians in Bethlehem have difficulty going to Jerusalem three miles away?

1:33:27Tucker Carlson:Oh, absolutely. The whole thing is the system is set up to restrict the movement. You have to apply through the Israeli militaries to get permission to go from a Palestinian city to an Israeli city or Israeli control cities. Think about it. I mean, look, at the West Bank, it's like a Swiss cheese. There are holes on the Swiss cheese. Those are the Palestinian cities. They live in 165 enclaves throughout the West Bank. But Israel controls the whole cheese militarily. And they apply pressure on these Palestinian cities. Some people even call it the holy Swiss cheese. So when Palestinians want to go from one Palestinian city to another, they have to drive on specific roads, going through specific checkpoints, roadblocks, And around every city, there are iron gates that Israel seals off every time they feel like it.

1:34:28Tucker Carlson:Our ministry director was coming back from a trip from Jericho to Bethlehem. My drive should take him about 35, 40 minutes. He got stuck at one of the checkpoints for eight hours. He got hungry. He ordered food on DoorDash, came through a motorcycle, delivered pizza for him. But he got stuck there for eight hours. And he'd had a team of ministers from the Netherlands. And they were all stuck together. They saw it firsthand. Lines and lines of trucks and Palestinian cars. Why? Because the Israeli soldier on that checkpoint felt like taking a nap. Eight hours. This is the daily reality. This is not random.

1:35:12A trip that will, you know, if you had a medical emergency, you miss it.

1:35:18Tucker Carlson:If you have a job interview, if you want to go from Bethlehem to Ramallah, from Jericho to any other Palestinian town, Hebron, you will have to go through these, you will have to navigate through the Swiss cheese. And sometimes you get shot at randomly at gunpoint. I was with a group of church leaders from Alabama. Took them to the West Bank. Went through Jordan and then one of the checkpoint that leads to Jerusalem. We got stopped. Where is your passport? Everybody held the American passport. I had my American passport, which I'm very proud of. We held it. But the soldier profiled me out of all the 10 church leaders.

1:36:11Tucker Carlson:And he said, you, where's your Palestinian ID? I gave him my Palestinian ID and he said, you're not allowed through this checkpoint. You have to go through Kalundia, which is you have to walk on foot. You're not allowed to.

1:36:25Dr. Fares Abraham:Did you say, son, I pay your salary. I'm an American citizen. Don't speak to me like that.

1:36:30Tucker Carlson:I told him you are embarrassing the state of Israel in front of our American friends who I brought from Alabama. They watched the whole thing. Some of them, they broke in tears. They said, what is this?

1:36:41Dr. Fares Abraham:And what happened?

1:36:43Tucker Carlson:And we made a U-turn and went to the other checkpoint.

1:36:46Dr. Fares Abraham:But I mean, okay, you pay for this. Like you're an American taxpayer.

1:36:52Tucker Carlson:Palestinian, Christian, American, specifically. We feel betrayed on two levels. Yeah. We pay taxes. We work so hard to fund this system. In the meantime, our sacred text and our sacred scripture is used against us. You don't belong here. God gave this land to somebody else. So our money and our scripture is being flipped on us and weaponized against us.

1:37:23Dr. Fares Abraham:I mean, I'm an Episcopalian from La Jolla. I've got nothing to do with any of this at all. And it makes me, just on justice grounds and decency grounds and Christian grounds, it makes me like crazy. I have to say prayers to calm down. How do you stay so calm?

1:37:38Tucker Carlson:That's why we need to raise awareness. I love the American church so much. I believe there is, and I believe in the promise of America, Tucker. I believe America can play a significant role in bringing peace and prosperity to the Middle East. Which is, that's the state of the intention. But the way we go about it is sometimes it contradicts biblical values.

1:38:03Dr. Fares Abraham:So you're an American and you have the blue passport, you're a taxpayer. You get mistreated by the Israeli government, the IDF, which you also pay for, holding a weapon made in your country that you paid for. And you have an ambassador who serves supposedly your country at the U.S. embassy in Jerusalem. So have you called Mike Huckabee about this?

1:38:33Tucker Carlson:We have given up on the politicians.

1:38:35Dr. Fares Abraham:We have given up on this. Well, he's not a politician. He is an emissary of the president who works for the United States State Department. I'm the son of an ambassador. I know how this works. And his job is to reflect the views of his president and to defend his country in a foreign country. He represents America's interests in a foreign country.

1:38:53Tucker Carlson:That's not what he said on the last TBN interview. He said, my job is to secure the blessings for Israel so America can get blessed. So his primary concern is really blessing Israel about what that means. Has America been blessed by this policy, do you think?

1:39:07Dr. Fares Abraham:I've lived here for 56 years. I don't think it's been blessed by this policy at all.

1:39:11Tucker Carlson:I don't think. I don't see the blessings. I don't think this is how God views blessings. You see, we are blessed in Christ. That's what the American church needs to get. Christ in Christ. Christ in you is hope of glory. Yes. What else do you really want? That's the blessings that we get to enjoy. But in the meantime, we want to live in a society that is fair, that is based on justice, based on human dignity. And we cherish these values, these American values, and these are based on biblical values. And some people make the argument that the entire Western civilization is based on these values.

1:39:52Tucker Carlson:Of course it is. But when I see, you know, a regime in the Middle East that is claiming to be the only democracy in the Middle East, and it's the extension of the West, and they're not holding, they're not living up to these biblical values, then they need to be held accountable.

1:40:13Dr. Fares Abraham:Yes. Well, I couldn't agree more. My whole life has been sidetracked by this question in the past few months because I feel it so strongly, and I never wanted to have this debate. But whatever. But just to the question of Huckabee, his job is to represent you and your government. So if you called him and don't want to, you know, Huckabee is not the most guilty person. I know him. But I just have to ask, like, could you call Huckabee? Could you call the U.S. Embassy in Jerusalem and say, hey, I'm an American citizen and I'm being some guy with a gun is like pulling me out of the car?

1:40:45Tucker Carlson:Yeah, but how would you have a conversation with somebody who says Palestinians don't exist? Who says Palestinians? There are no such thing as Palestinians.

1:40:56Dr. Fares Abraham:He said that?

1:40:57Tucker Carlson:Yes, it's on tape.

1:40:59Dr. Fares Abraham:What does that mean, don't exist?

1:41:01Tucker Carlson:That means they're invented people. They're not indigenous to the land. They came from somewhere.

1:41:07Dr. Fares Abraham:Where did they come from?

1:41:09Tucker Carlson:Well, they claim that Palestinians came from neighboring countries to prevent the Jewish state from being established. They don't even recognize that these people have been on the land since the shepherds, at least, if not longer.

1:41:24Dr. Fares Abraham:Well, we can prove that since we've decoded the human genome. We don't have to guess about any of this. We give everybody in the, we give all 14 million people in this zone DNA tests and we could find out who's got the longest connection to land. Couldn't we do that?

1:41:37Tucker Carlson:Yes, absolutely. For me, and even not just the ambassador, but also to, I want to appeal to the broader evangelical community. And this is my tribe.

1:41:53Tucker Carlson:But justice, human rights, safety and security is not a zero-sum game. Loving Israelis does not mean ignoring the suffering of the Palestinians. Praying for the peace of Jerusalem, which I do it all the time. I want Jerusalem to prosper.

1:42:12Dr. Fares Abraham:I do too.

1:42:12Tucker Carlson:I want Jerusalem to thrive.

1:42:14Dr. Fares Abraham:I totally agree.

1:42:15Tucker Carlson:But politicians are using this verse to say, I want to bless Jerusalem, pray for the peace of Jerusalem. That means Jewish sovereignty in Jerusalem. Total disregard of the historic church that has been sitting there for the past 2 ,000 years. Okay? I pray for the peace of Jerusalem. But praying for the peace of Jerusalem does not mean accepting the destruction of Gaza. Justice is not a zero-sum game.

1:42:40Dr. Fares Abraham:No.

1:42:41Tucker Carlson:Our political system and our pastors and leaders, they need to recognize that there is another way. It's not either or mentality. It's not choosing to support and bless one group of people because most likely it's going to end up at the expense of the vulnerable.

1:43:04Dr. Fares Abraham:Can I ask you about that point, the expense of the vulnerable? This is like theology 101. As a Christian, can Christians ever accept as good the killing of innocents?

1:43:16Tucker Carlson:Absolutely not.

1:43:17Dr. Fares Abraham:That's not even a close call, is it?

1:43:19Tucker Carlson:It's a crime against God.

1:43:23Dr. Fares Abraham:Exactly.

1:43:24Tucker Carlson:Because everyone is created in the image of God. Bless you. Israelis, Palestinians, people with faith, people without faith. Everyone is valuable to be cherished and loved by God. But if you have done nothing wrong, it's wrong to punish you, correct?

1:43:42Dr. Fares Abraham:It's wrong to shoot your mother for not doing anything. No, I mean, not just your mother, anyone's mother, anyone's child. You can't, you could say, well, that happens, which it does, of course, a lot. And it's not just the Israelis who do it, of course, everyone does it. But don't Christians have to say that's wrong?

1:43:58Tucker Carlson:Absolutely. We have to go. We have to raise a prophetic voice. It's not, Christians are easy to be compassionate. Because Jesus was compassionate. He saw the sheep without a shepherd. He was moved with compassion. But also Jesus, when necessary, he raised a prophetic voice.

1:44:14Dr. Fares Abraham:He braided a whip, actually, at one point.

1:44:17Tucker Carlson:Yes. He spoke against the injustice and the evil doers with the goal of transforming their heart. Now, I don't have the ability to convert anybody. I don't have the ability to change anybody. but I know the one who can. Yes. And if the church doesn't believe in that power, that the hardest of hearts can be transformed. Paul, what changed Paul?

1:44:46Dr. Fares Abraham:Exactly, exactly.

1:44:47Tucker Carlson:He was a ruthless terrorist, killing Christians and dragging them, went to Damascus. Just walking to Syria to kill more Christians. Yes. Yep. Jesus changed them and he became the apostle. We need more stories of this in the Middle East. This is what gives me hope. This is what keeps me up at night and this is what gets me up in the morning, is to see the Middle East healed, transformed by the love of God. If we have the power to stop the injustice inflicted upon the Palestinians, we need to speak. If we have the ability to speak against the injustice committed against Christians in Syria, in Iraq.

1:45:26Dr. Fares Abraham:In Lebanon.

1:45:26Tucker Carlson:I had a friend who pastored the Good Shepherd Evangelical Church in Sweda. He was butchered. With his family, 12 members in cold blood by an Islamic terrorist. We need, as Christians, we condemn that. We don't condemn that.

1:45:44Dr. Fares Abraham:This was in Syria?

1:45:45Tucker Carlson:This was in Syria not too long ago. His name is Khalid Mazhar. Yeah. So, as Christians, we have a responsibility. We have a sacred calling from God to advocate on behalf of the widow, the orphan, the poor, the marginal. This was the very core message. And many Christians, I want to point this out, they see this as, oh, well, I want to stick with the gospel. I want to preach the gospel. This is social.

1:46:13Dr. Fares Abraham:That is the gospel.

1:46:14Tucker Carlson:But Jesus had these two missions that are not competing. He preached the kingdom. He preached forgiveness of sins. He talked about repentance. But in the meantime, he fed people. He healed bodies. He raised people from the dead. You know, the good news to a child in Gaza who lost all of his family member in airstrike, what is the good news to that child? It's our proximity. It's our presence. It's delivering a cold cup of water for the least of these. Of course. This is the gospel message. So many Christians, they decide, say, well, I just want to focus on the gospel and end-time theology. and they spend hours and resources and millions of dollars preparing for an event that's going to happen or may not happen in the future while people are living hell on earth.

1:47:12Tucker Carlson:So Antti Wright, great theologian, he said, heaven is not a place that you get to go to after you die, but heaven is bringing God's love to people on earth. That's right.

1:47:24Dr. Fares Abraham:And hell is not just a place you're sent to. It's a place you can experience when, and whenever you see chaos and violence and deception, like that's what hell is.

1:47:33Tucker Carlson:Yes.

1:47:34Dr. Fares Abraham:It's people screaming lies. I'm totally convinced of that. So let me ask you about a very controversial topic and that's Islam and the Muslims. And I noticed that in the United States that anyone who says, wait a second, what is going on in Gaza or the West Bank? Why are we paying for this? Why are our ministers, our ministers, making excuses for this anyone who says those things is accused of working for the muslims or being a secret jihadi or taking money from some muslim group or country or whatever um this has happened to me so it's a look for the record i've never taken money from anybody christian jew or muslim um and won't but whatever the point is the response is i don't want to talk Talk about what your tax dollars are doing because Islam is so scary that we just have to go along with this or else we're all going to be living in a caliphate.

1:48:28Tucker Carlson:Yes.

1:48:29Dr. Fares Abraham:Have you noticed this?

1:48:30Tucker Carlson:Well, this has been the media narrative and we are told by Christians and because I minister among Christian circles that this is a cosmic battle between God of the Bible against his enemies.

1:48:46Dr. Fares Abraham:Yes.

1:48:47Tucker Carlson:This is between good and evil, Islam versus the West. Once you frame a conflict like this, you are destined for perpetual animosity and perpetual wars.

1:48:59Dr. Fares Abraham:That's the whole point. It was the point of 9-11, obviously.

1:49:02Tucker Carlson:Do we have our differences theologically with Islam? Yes. Nobody ignores that. Do we have our understanding of God? Yes. But that doesn't mean we have to discriminate and demonize an entire group of people, almost 2 billion people, for the sins that are committed by bad actors who are using religious texts or whatever to justify violence. That is to be called out. And I believe many governments in the Arab world have rejected political Islam.

1:49:41Dr. Fares Abraham:and well they fear it too because it's a threat to their power but you have to wonder like something like syria where israel teams up with turkey this is true no one wants to hear it but to take out the last government whatever and the net effect is to have savagery by jihadi groups against christians and alawites and other religious minorities but like okay i mean i'm against jihadis i'm against radical muslims for sure always have been but like they're not the ones who did this, actually. They're not the ones who overthrew a secular regime and made it possible to murder all the Christians. It's the same in Iraq.

1:50:17Dr. Fares Abraham:They had a secular regime, not defending Saddam or Uday or Qusay. Yes. But it was the Israelis pushing the Bush administration to overthrow this regime that got millions of Christians in Iraq murdered or displaced.

1:50:30Tucker Carlson:That's just a fact. And had we listened to the church leaders in Iraq, had we listened to the pastors and leaders who pleaded with the administration not to invade. We wouldn't have this catastrophe. Iraqi community is very small, but they're faithful, they're staying, but they have been devastated by the terrorists.

1:50:51Dr. Fares Abraham:They're mostly gone now. And you will see the same thing in Syria, same thing in Lebanon. Who blew up the port of Beirut?

1:50:56Tucker Carlson:Yeah, because once you create a chaos, once you blow up a place, you create a vacuum. Exactly. A vacuum of hope. And what's going to fill this hope is radicalism, extremism. I tell you a story about Ali Faraj from Gaza. Little boy. I think he's six or seven or eight. Can't remember his age. He was blown off his apartment into the next door roof. And there's a famous picture. He's pointing hands and bloodied. He lost five of his sisters, 15 members of his family. that creates a deep vacuum in his life. If it's not filled with the hope, if it's not filled with God's love, this is the easiest, you know, you know, someone who's going, when you lose your agency, when you live in despair, I'm not giving excuses, but this is the vacuum that we need to fill.

1:52:04Tucker Carlson:And I'm deeply concerned. You know, I leave the politicians to figure it out politically. But as Christians, as ministers, our posture has to change. Our attitude toward everybody, even our enemies.

1:52:20Dr. Fares Abraham:Especially our enemies. Especially our enemies.

1:52:23Tucker Carlson:Yeah. We're not going to be naive and bury our heads in the sands and, you know, pretend that we're not. But God is not calling us to be escapist.

1:52:33Dr. Fares Abraham:No, and as Jesus himself says, like loving your friends, loving people who love you, even pagans do that. You don't get points for that. We're required to love our enemies, the people who persecute us.

1:52:42Tucker Carlson:And engage in the culture, engage in the community with the gospel because we have a powerful hope that can transform hearts and minds. And this is the only hope that the Christian can really offer.

1:52:56Dr. Fares Abraham:Can I ask you one last question? And it's about the third temple. So, in the world that you've lived in, I didn't fully realize just how in evangelical world you've been since you, how old were you when you came to the US? I was 18. 18. So you come literally from the West Bank to the United States and you go to Liberty and a lot of great people, but they have a totally different understanding of what's happening in the place that you grew up than you do and a totally different theology maybe than you do. It's America, it's different. But one of the ideas that's common among Christian Zionists is that they need, Christians need to help rebuild this thing called the Third Temple in Jerusalem.

1:53:40Dr. Fares Abraham:Unfortunately, there's a mosque on the site, one of the holiest places in Islam, Aqsa Mosque. But is that something that Christians should want to rebuild the Third Temple? What is that? Where does that idea come from? And what would happen if it were attempted?

1:53:54Tucker Carlson:Absolutely not. The short answer.

1:53:56Dr. Fares Abraham:Okay.

1:53:56Tucker Carlson:Jesus in Ephesians 2, he knocked down the wall of hostility that separated the Jews and the Gentiles.

1:54:02Dr. Fares Abraham:Yes.

1:54:03Tucker Carlson:Why are we bringing it back up? Why are we building it? There is no point, there is no scripture that pointed the fact that Christians need to build a third temple. There is no prophecy about a third temple. There is no way in scripture about anything close to a third temple. Well, we're doing it.

1:54:20Dr. Fares Abraham:I mean, we're moving toward knocking down Al-Aqsa Mosque and replacing it with a third temple. I mean, all things being equal, it's going to happen. and it was just occupied yesterday by a bunch of settlers. So this is happening in slow motion. Christians are paying for it.

1:54:36Tucker Carlson:Again, they're putting their hopes on earthly matters where I direct them to the faith that Abraham had, where he fixed his eyes on what eternal, the new Jerusalem. In Galatians chapter four, it spells it out really clearly. If you are in Christ, you belong to the free woman, Sarah. and if you don't belong to Christ, you're still fixated and enslaved by the idea of an earthly Jerusalem. The land matters, yes, we honor Jerusalem. We remember what Christ had done there. It carries deep memories. But the question is, does it have any spiritual significance? Does the temple have any spiritual significance?

1:55:24Tucker Carlson:When Jesus came, he transformed the whole meaning again. You know, John chapter one, it says, Jesus, he pitched his tent among us. The word became flesh. The word became flesh. He tabernacled among us. That's the exact word that the Greek language uses to describe Christ's incarnation. He tabernacled among us because he is the locus of the land. If there is anything holy in the Holy Land, it's Jerusalem. If there is anything holy in Jerusalem, it is the temple. If there is anything holy in the temple, it is the holy of holies. But guess what happened when Jesus was crucified? That thing got destroyed, split in a half, because he is the final destination.

1:56:09Tucker Carlson:Everything in Scripture points to Jesus, not to a third temple. You know, when Jesus ascended and he sent his Holy Spirit, he empowered his disciples to be the temple of the Holy Spirit, because God does not reside. It specifically says it does not reside in a house built with hands and stones. God resides in us human beings through the Holy Spirit. So why are we so fixated on erecting a temple that does not have any spiritual significance whatsoever? We are the temple of God. Jesus himself is the high priest, according to the New Testament. Jesus himself is the Lamb of God, the sacrifice. And Jesus himself offered himself as the sacrifice.

1:57:00Tucker Carlson:So he is the Alpha and he's the Omega. He's the author and the finisher of our faith, according to our Holy Scripture. And Christians need to be fixated on that holy hope.

1:57:17Dr. Fares Abraham:Thank you for the time you spent here. It's an amazing conversation. I appreciate it. Thank you, Tucker. Thanks for watching the Wednesday edition of the show. We stream live every week, Wednesday, 6 p.m. Eastern on tuckercarlson.com. Members can watch the show live, join the members only chat and take part in the conversation in real time. We're grateful to be doing it and grateful that you watch it. Thank you.