Peter Brimelow on the Invasion of America, Who’s Behind It, and How Long Until Total Collapse

25:39It's double-think. You've got to believe two contradictory things at once, and it's necessary to operate in large parts of the political world. Interesting. But why wouldn't people who support an ethnostate in Israel want one here? I mean, why would they object to that so strongly? I mean, of course, this is the profound question about the American Jewish role in the American immigration debate. They're overwhelmingly pro-immigration. However, having said that, you know, typically, if you know anything about Jewish intellectual life, you know the people on the other side. And some people very hard on the other side.

26:13Oh, and I know a lot of them. That's why I would never be anti-Semitic because you can't generalize, you know. I mean, I have a hunch that Stephen Miller, who, of course, is an aide to Trump, I think he's the deputy chief of staff or something, He's going to be the first Jewish president. I say this because it's hard to possibly it horrifies people so much. But he's like Disraeli in Britain. Benjamin Disraeli, of course, was Jewish, but converted to Episcopalianism. He was converted by his father to a very early age. His father took the whole family over to being Episcopalians. He basically invented the Conservative Party, reinvented the Conservative Party in the 19th century.

26:53He came up with it in Britain. He came up with a complete grand strategy for it based on the empire. and imperial patriotism and so on. And that really carried the party through for the next 80 or 90 years. A couple of generations, the Conservative Party in Britain was a nationalist party, and because of being a nationalist party, it got a very substantial working-class vote because it is the blue-collar workers of the patriots. and the Conservative Party is able to tap into that. Miller's done the same thing. He's invented a grand strategy for the Republican Party, which he desperately doesn't want to take up because it's run by cowards and fools.

27:38But he thinks they should move towards, you know, re-stabilizing America's ethnic balance and basically eliminating this immigrant inflow, which is causing all kinds of problems for lower-skilled workers and ultimately changing the racial balance. And he's not afraid to admit that. And not only that, but... I don't think anyone should be afraid. He has the cunning to survive the Kushner White House. Yes. I mean, that was really extraordinary because Jared Kushner, of course, believed exactly the opposite. He's basically a liberal New York Jew. But for some reason, Miller was able to survive with him.

28:15I couldn't have done that. and I wouldn't have abandoned Jeff Sessions in the way that he did Sessions was his close aide and was his mentor and then Miller abandons him when Trump turns against him I couldn't have done that either but then he's in the White House and I'm not I think those are all fair and true observations it's interesting though the degree to which the immigration project is a demographic project. I mean, it has almost explicitly been an effort to make America less white. They'll say that. It's not controversial. I mean, you could prove it on video. It didn't even bother to because I think most people watching this already know that.

29:02Its architects, starting with Teddy Kennedy in 1965, basically just said, ultimately admitted, the whole point is to make America less white and non-majority white country. why is it so hard for conservatives to say the same? If Democrats are saying we want America to be non-white why can't conservatives say that that's what their motive is? I have to say that Kennedy didn't say that when he was the floor manager of the Hartz-Seller he gave a very explicit assurance he loved to quote saying that this will not alter the racial balance of America and it will not mean a million people a year will be coming in, whereas in fact a million people a year are coming in.

29:45Of course. And that's one of the reasons I bitterly regret not having a VDA, even though I have my own PeterBrimo.com sub-stack. That's not the same kind of voice because we've got to get legal immigration into the debate here. I think what Trump has done on illegal immigration is remarkable and more remarkable than people realize, but they're not doing anything on legal immigration. But I'm sorry, that means I've not answered your question. What was your question? Well, my question was, the whole point of the project was not to feed a desperate need for low-skilled labor. That definitely no longer exists now with AI.

30:23And it wasn't to improve America. It's completely destroyed America. It destroyed the state of California. Well, when I was writing the book I wrote on immigration, Alienation, that flowed out of my cover story, the 95 book, which HarperCollins refused to reprint. I quoted a man called Earl Raab, who was a Jewish activist and so on, and he explicitly said that Jews were in favor of mass non-white immigration because it makes the rise of a, he didn't use the term neo-Nazi, but that's what he meant, you know, party in America, impossible. In fact, he does the exact opposite. It makes it more likely.

31:01Well, exactly. But he did say that. He quite calmly said that this is why most Jews favor... Well, it's also made the rise of hard-edged anti-Israel politics. And I'm not pro-Israel especially, but I don't hate Israel. A lot of people who hate Israel are immigrants. Look at the New York Marathi race. Well, exactly. Van Damme won because of the immigrant vote. Exactly. The native-born American New Yorkers, and God knows, look at who they are for God's sake. but they voted against Mandami. Exactly. So they've really screwed themselves up. This hasn't worked. That's right. I mean, if your interest was to keep anti-Semitism and really kind of crazy anti-Israel sentiment to a minimum, and I agree with that, I'm against anti-Semitism, I'm against basing your life on hating Israel, that seems kind of lunatic.

31:56If that was your goal, I mean, you literally achieved the opposite result. Is that fair to say? Not for the first time. Yeah, yeah. Fair, fair. So you think maybe that wasn't the goal. I don't know. I'm just guessing here. Maybe there was another goal that we don't understand, but... Well, I think a lot of it is deeply emotional and can't be analyzed intellectually. It's just a whole series of reflexes. Or spiritual. But, you know, one of the reasons, we know that the New York Attorney General's attack on us was basically instigated by the Anti-Defamation League because a journalist we know actually got the ADL to admit this, that they'd gone to Letitia James and told her to take Fideira out.

32:46And we say to ourselves, why us, Jews? What have we ever done to you? You know, we have the Berkeley Springs Castle in West Virginia, which we bought as a conference venue because we're not allowed to have conferences anywhere else. The donor was Jewish. We had all kinds of Jewish donors and all kinds of Jewish writers. But it doesn't make any difference to the ideal apartment. So what are you going to do when the power goes out? Not theoretically, but actually in real life. Most Americans used to think total power failure only happened in unstable countries, places without functioning governments, places you only went to on vacation.

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34:36Warning, the following ZipRecruiter radio spot you are about to hear is going to be filled with F-words. When you're hiring, we at ZipRecruiter know you can feel frustrated, forlorn even, like your efforts are futile. And you can spend a fortune trying to find fabulous people only to get flooded with candidates who are just fine. fortunately ZipRecruiter figured out how to fix all that and right now you can try ZipRecruiter for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash zip with ZipRecruiter you can forget your frustrations because we find the right people for your roles fast which is our absolute favorite f-word in fact four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day.

35:19Fantastic. So whether you need to hire four, 40 or 400 people, get ready to meet first rate talent. Just go to ZipRecruiter.com slash zip to try ZipRecruiter for free. Don't forget that's ZipRecruiter.com slash zip. Finally, that's ZipRecruiter.com slash zip. Now to what happened to you and to VDare. So you're expelled both from National Review and you leave your old life as a financial journalist behind. I think it's a fair summary. And then you create this organization called V-Dare named after Virginia Dare, the first British child born in the Americas. And it becomes successful. It becomes big and it's not anti-Semitic.

35:59It's not racist. It's against changing America's population through immigration. Is that a fair summary? Yeah. I stayed in financial journalism for a long time. V-Dare was kind of a moonlighting project. How did you pull that off? It was very difficult. And of course, it eventually became impossible. And I was fired both from Forbes and from CBS, what used to be CBS Market Watch became Dow Jones Market Watch. In both cases, it was during turn downs in the markets, but I happened to be the one, they chose to fire me rather than people who were frankly less valuable to them. So it did in the end terminate my career in the mainstream media.

36:44But on the other hand, we were developing Vidare very rapidly and it became quite a big deal. And in 2019, we raised nearly$4 million, which enabled us to buy the castle and do all kinds of other things. Of course, it's been utterly destroyed now. I've been out of it for, you know, it was suspended two years ago and I resigned. And so, you know, I'm supporting the family now on pensions and savings and so on. And I do have a family. I have minor children. So it's kind of irritating. Irritating doesn't begin to describe it. So tell the story, if you would. You're running VDARE. And somehow Letitia James, who's the attorney general of New York.

37:28VDARE is a 5.1c3 charity and it was registered in New York in 1999. entirely because our then pro bono lawyer happened to be barred in New York and therefore that it was convenient for him. And this was when, you know, there was a Republican governor in New York and nobody ever heard of lawfare, nobody heard of it. The idea of lawfare, this kind of exploitation of regulatory power, never occurred to anybody at that point. Well, because we registered in New York, even though we don't operate in New York, she was able to demand, we one day woke up and found we got these massive subpoenas, demanding all kinds of documents, including all our email going back to 2016.

38:12And of course, that was a huge problem because if she got that, she would have the names of our donors and our anonymous, pseudonymous writers. And I had people writing for me whose career would have been ruined if they were fired. May I ask him what, okay, so you're not domiciled in New York, you're not operating in New York. We registered in New York, that's the key point. But the 501c3 is registered in New York. Yes, that's right. And you can't get out. You've got to have her permission to get out. You can't change states? No, we can only with her permission. And in some circumstances, if we were to set up another 501c3 and start operating out of that, she would claim that we were transferring assets, and she would claim jurisdiction over that.

38:51It's a huge mess. And we had very expensive lawyers looking at it for a long time, even before she came along and hit us with this. May I ask on what grounds she issued subpoenas to you? She doesn't have to give grounds. But what she said was she wanted to investigate the castle purchase, which we did in 2000, or more accurately, I should say, Lydia did it in 2000. Because, as you know, we had maybe a dozen, depends how you count, but a dozen, 15 conferences canceled. Hotels would accept a booking, and then they would cancel as soon as they came under pressure from the left. And we realized we were never going to be able to have a conference.

39:26so we bought our own venue. And she wants to investigate that. Well, of course, all that purchase was very carefully lawyed, precisely because we knew she would want to investigate it. But it doesn't make any difference. She demands that, and she demanded that, and she demanded all kinds of other things. The really killing thing for us was demanding all the email. We had to turn over more than a million documents. The really killing thing was demanding the email because we know if she got the writer's names and the donor's names, she would release them. She did that with Nikki Haley. They leaked the donors to her pack.

40:00And the papers that you saw that gave the names of Nikki Haley's donors were actually the letterhead was the New York Attorney General's office. But of course nobody ever came after her. I'm just confused. Did she have evidence she committed a crime? No, she was looking for evidence. And she's not found it, but she's charged us anyway. Well, she hasn't charged us. It's not a criminal thing. but she's suing us anyway over him. My impression, my guess, my guess is that the Trump administration will begin to ignore the courts in some cases. And people will say that this is the beginning of fascism and a takeover of the destruction of our legal system.

40:44And, you know, that's a fair point. No, it's not a fair point. Well, exactly. That's exactly what I'm about to say. Exactly. it has already been destroyed. And when the attorney general of the state you don't live or operate in can destroy you because she doesn't like your opinions, then we don't have a functioning legal system, period. And this happened before Trump. So I just want to say that. The wonderful, I mean, one of the wonderful things, let me back up a second. One wonderful thing that has happened within the last year is that a very enterprising journalist actually dug up a speech made to the ADL.

41:19They had a conference called Taking Hate to Court by Rick Sawyer, who is one of Letitia James' operatives. And he is the one who's leading the charge against us. And he said to this conference that hate speech, that's us, hate speech is protected by the First Amendment. But there are ways around that. All you have to do, if it's a charity and you have jurisdiction, is to start issuing subpoenas. He said it sucks to be sued. Just subpoena them to death. And, of course, that's exactly what he's done to us. You know, they inflicted over a million, nearly a million and a half dollars in out-of-pocket costs for lawyers and so on, let alone the hundreds of hours that lady had to spend digging through documents and so on, which meant that she couldn't fundraise or do any of the work.

42:03They just destroy you through the process of the punishment. They just destroy you that way. So he's actually openly admitting this. So when we saw this, we thought, oh, it's all over. They've obviously admitted that what they're doing is not, it's political, it's not because of some regulatory concern. But we've been totally unable to get the federal court to pay attention to this. We're trying again now. We have what they call a 983 action against Letitia James and the operatives personally, and we're trying to raise this First Amendment question there. But the courts have been extremely resistant to looking at it.

42:39I mean, if the attorney general and her staff are admitting they're destroying you because they disagree with your opinions, it seems to me that any federal court would take that up because that's a foundational question. That's what we thought. But in fact, the first time we did it, the courts simply dodged on the technical issue. They came up with a technical excuse to dodging. And we're trying again now, but we just have to hope for the best. I think one of the things that is clear to me, I mean, from looking at our litigation experience, which is now considerably goes far beyond this situation, and other cases I'm aware of is that there seems to have been some message gone out from Judge Central that anything that's quote unquote in a white nationalist has got to be suppressed by any means necessary.

43:36In our case, the classic example is we had a hotel cancel on us in Colorado Springs, and they, well, Coral was not with them because they paid up the liquidated damages like men and it was a lot of money. But they canceled because the mayor of Colorado Springs, who was a rhino, John Southers, had said he wouldn't extend police protection to the conference. When, you know, in other words, Antifa could go in and... He wouldn't extend police protection? Yes, that's right. Now, this is an issue that's... He's trying to kill you. That's right. And who is this? His name was John Southers. He was the mayor of, he was the Republican.

44:16John Southers, the mayor of Colorado Springs, basically threatened to allow mortal violence against you if you went to his city. Now, this is an issue which has been extensively litigated in the civil rights era. And the point was made very clear by the courts that the local authorities, the local governments have to extend protection to people's First Amendment rights. In other words, in those days, the black demonstrators would have meetings in the city and the local whites would be angry about it. But those whites had to be kept away. The blacks had to be allowed to have their meetings. Well, we litigated this right up to the Supreme Court, which refused to take the issue up.

44:58And the appeals court in Colorado rejected us. And I believe it had at least one... We had one good judge there who said this is obviously an attack on First Amendment rights but the other two, who I think were Republican appointees, to vote against us. So we lost, and we weren't able to... Our initial lawyer, you know, civil rights litigation is extremely damaging if you're on the wrong side of it. I mean, there's enormous damages involved, so it would have been a huge victory, and we would have actually been made whole in a very dramatic way. And our initial lawyer in Colorado Springs was so keen on this, it was so obviously open and shut case, that he took it on contingency, you know.

45:39But as soon as he realized that the city was going to resist, he ran away and we had to start paying our lawyers to litigate him. Well, anyway, subsequently, there was a case before the Supreme Court, New York, I guess, it was Vullo, it was called the Vullo case, V-U-L-L-O. And this was a case where the communists in New York were putting pressure on insurance companies not to insure the NRA, and the NRA fought it. and it won. And in the decision, Catenji Jackson says, the NRA's case is strong, but it's essentially, I'm paraphrasing, it's not as strong as Vida's case, where they were denied police, where the state agency, you know, basically discriminates against them on political grounds.

46:29What's this? We never heard about this. Well, it turns out that 16 attorneys general had signed an amicus brief saying that the appeals court in Colorado had been wrong to reject our attempt to sue Colorado Springs on a civil rights theory, and that it was wrong for the following reasons, and for that reason, the Supreme Court should take up the NRA's case against, NRA v. Volo, I guess it was called, and the Supreme Court did take it up and ruled against the state of New York 9-0, Which, of course, does us absolutely no good whatever, because we're out all that money. And, you know, our first commemorators are not protected.

47:10I mean, in other words, there's a real determination on the part of it. The NRA is apparently more partable than we are. I'm a little bit confused conceptually with the idea that white self-awareness is effectively illegal in the United States, whereas ethnic self-awareness in every other group is encouraged. doesn't make any sense. Speak for myself, I'd rather live in a deracialized world where people think about it less because it does cause problems. But as long as you're encouraging identity politics, why do whites not get to have it? What is the answer? Well, it's completely hypocritical.

47:47It's because the people running the society are anti-white. And they've been able to persuade or intimidate the entire legal system to operate in an anti-white way. I mean, anti-white in this case really means anti-American. I mean, because the whites are Americans. That's who Americans are. You know, the people who signed it are Declaration of Independence. Yeah, I did know that. And the purpose of the project, like big picture, again, I keep going back to this, but I'm just, I am a little bit confused because this is the defining fact of our lives, is that whites around the world are being eliminated.

48:26And I would like to know why. Do you have any guesses? As I say, I think, Tucker, I think it derives from emotion rather than a kind of rational calculation. I mean, if you look at what's happened in South Africa, or for that matter, in every big American black city, that's majority black. I mean, they can't want it to get into a situation where the water is putrid and nothing works and all that kind of thing. But they do. The purpose of the system is what it does. That's right. And the purpose of non-white government is to produce non-white government and non-white results. Unless, of course, you're Chinese.

49:06Because Singapore's run Japanese. They're run very efficiently. They are. It's just interesting that people move here because it's a white country. You see, they're on it into the ground. Well, all of us benefit, white and non-white, benefit alike from systems created by whites because they're more humane. they're more just they're more fair and they're much more efficient and cleaner obviously you know I was looking at an interview if I can interrupt you I was looking at an interview somebody sent me an interview I did for Forbes magazine with Milton Friedman and I asked him are there cultural prerequisites for capitalism and he said yes and as you know he's a very fire breathing libertarian but he actually thought about this question and he said that you know he said capitalism has really only ever worked in the English-speaking countries.

49:56I don't know why this is so, but the fact has to be admitted. There's some kind of a cultural underpinning for capitalism. I sometimes, what economists call a metamarket, a framework where the market operates. So the question is, why are these capitalists bringing, why is the Chamber of Commerce suing to keep the H1B flow coming when they know it's going to, when it's obviously going to produce people who don't do it like Mandami, who don't support capitalism and in fact hate it. What are the capitalists doing? Well, they're doing what Lenin said. They will sell us the rope with which we hang them.

50:33And I mean, that's demonstrable. It was true in 1917. It's true in 2026. Do you think it's the product of short-term thinking? Oh, in the case of business people, of course it is. The malign influence of the Wall Street Journal editorial page, a whole generation of business people actually believe all this nonsense. It's very hard to get out of their heads because they're never allowed. I mean, they're never allowed criticism of immigration on the editorial page. So you've referred repeatedly to the Wall Street Journal and also to HarperCollins. Both of them are owned by the Murdoch family. Right.

51:08What's been your experience with the Murdochs? Well, you know, I spent well over a year working for Rupert in, I think that's 1990, on a ghosting autobiography, which was never published. For various reasons, he changed his mind about it. But I have to say he was extraordinarily generous to me personally, and he continued to be extraordinarily generous until very recently, when I guess I had been on the payroll quietly for a very long time, and they dropped me when you came under attack, because somebody looked into people on the payroll, they found that this thought criminal's on the payroll.

51:49So at that point I was dropped, but he's always a person who's been extraordinarily generous to me. That is my experience with Rupert Murdoch. And you know, that's not the case with a lot of these characters. It's not. A lot of these people, Robert Maxwell and so on. I remember Rupert tell me once that he thought that Maxwell, Maxwell, as you know, fell off his yacht off the Canary Islands and was found dead. Rupert's theory was, this guy is such a jerk that the crew probably couldn't stand him anymore. That is one theory. That is one theory. His lawyer told me that he was murdered by the Israelis for whom he worked.

52:25I don't know the truth of that, but he certainly had a lot of enemies and a lot of suspects in that crime. But I mean, he was personal in place, and that's not the case with Rupert. He's not cruel. He's not vindictive. Rupert is one of the most personally gracious people I've ever met in my life. I mean, he has perfect manners. He's truly Anglo in that way, and I never had a bad time with him. Always agree. Even when he fired me, I talked to him after. He couldn't have been nicer. So I strongly agree with your assessment. But he kept you on the payroll for decades? Yeah. So I had five children born on his health care.

52:58I had some born on his health care too. God bless you, Rupert Murdoch. It was very good. No, I mean, I don't know. The truth should be told, good and bad. So essentially, I was a consultant for him, and he didn't consult me at all. because of course I would have told him to do the exact opposite of what he was asking. Right. But I have no complaints about Rupert Murdoch. Yes, no, I just want to say out loud, I agree with you 100 % through much experience, 25 years. But it does raise the question, as it does with Bill Buckley, then, you know, Rupert has great personal decency, and I've seen it, but the editorial product is...

53:45aggressively opposed to American, basic American interests. So like, what is that? This guy likes America. He treats people around him well. There's a lot good to say about Rupert, but the Wall Street Journal, the New York Post, HarperCollins, like all of them are engaged in a very aggressive campaign against America's interests. So why? Why is that? Do you know? Well, I think he handed over the sort of intellectual, the thinking part of News Corporation or 21st Century Fox whatever it's called now to the neoconservatives and so he took on a lot of neoconservative baggage at that point I mean they used to run an editorial every year saying there ought to be a constitutional amendment there shall be open borders you know I mean it was really lunatic and I believe that's still the case But why would he do that?

54:40First of all, because they're very good. They're extremely active, full of ideas, full of energy. They were extremely good in the Cold War. They were, that's correct. But that was then and this is now, and they just simply haven't made the transition. But that's a major reason. I know Oswego is operating in New York, and he was under a lot of suspicion there, and he had to show what he was, what Gore Vidal called once an okay guy, and he's showing that. It's genuine though with Rupert. I remember once talking to him about why he was so pro the initial Iraq war, the Gulf War. And he said, well, you know, it goes back to my father and Gallipoli.

55:25You know, his father played a major role in discrediting the Gallipoli expedition, which was this attack orchestrated by Winston Churchill. They're trying to break through the Dardanelles to get to Russia to help Russia join the war. He said, so I'm just, I guess I'm just basically anti-Arab. And I said, those aren't Arabs, the Turks. Well, exactly. Yeah, exactly. They're all the same. Yeah, the Ottoman Empire is gone, and they've done an enormous amount of business in the Gulf with Arabs who helped finance his companies. So it's kind of a strange answer. His father was a famous journalist in Australia who broke the news of the disaster at Gallipoli, as he said.

56:01And he was very proud of that. But that's not much of an answer. Is it? Well, you know him better than I do, Tucker. I don't know. I just, it's, you know, he's had such an effect on the world and on my life. And as I said five times, I've always liked him and still do. But it does, it's a mystery. Somebody said to me once, one of his henchmen in Australia said to me that Rupert is a businessman who wants to be a journalist. And his father's a journalist who wants to be a businessman. Because he did found a published empire in Australia. Of course. Sir Keith Murdoch. I think there's a lot in that.

56:38I mean, I think that you and I are ideologues, professional ideologues. But Ruben's not a professional ideologues. He's somebody who spends all of his time looking at numbers. He's a fantastic memory for numbers. I can never remember any phone numbers. He remembers every phone number he's ever dialed. And running an operation like his, it requires a tremendous attention to detail, and a tremendous application to going over pages and pages and pages of figures. And I don't know that he spends a great deal of time thinking about politics, except in a sporting sense. I mean, he likes to be backing winners and winning elections and that kind of thing.

57:21But then he likes going to Australian football matches too. So I think it's kind of a similar thing. That is a very smart analysis. I think you're exactly, I think you just answered the question. He's outsourced a lot of the thinking to others. It's transactional. He's not tightly wedded to ideological details at all. But he's really allowed the Wall Street Journal editorial page to become a force of destruction. Well, I have to admit, it's many years since I've bothered to read the Wall Street Journal. Yeah, me too. I rely on people sending me things, and they don't send much from the Wall Street Journal, or for that matter, from National Review.

57:58Very rarely seen material. National Review is still in existence? Apparently so. It has the Republican, you know, establishment to support. It's like, Lindsey Graham and Ted Cruz, and what, do you know the editor of National Review? I have the, you mean Rich Lowry? He's gone for some time now, hasn't he? Isn't he? Hasn't he been, don't know if somebody else? I have the faintest idea. But did you know him? You know, I sat in rooms with him, and I went to Buccas Parts with him, I have absolutely no memory of him at all. He never said anything at all of significance. And I think that's why Bill hired him, because he was completely malleable.

58:39Yeah, I think that sounds right. Sad, sad, sad. How much has been lost? So speaking of lost, what happened in the end, and I interrupted your story, my apologies, but to VDAR? VDAR is suspended. It was suspended in July of 2024 because we just ran out of money. The foundation is still in existence, and Lydia is still, she's not paid, but she's still paying lawyers and dealing with the legal situation, which continues to ramify, as I say, we're being sued personally and as a foundation. On what grounds are you being sued? Oh, there's a whole bunch of things. It's fundamentally technical issues to do with whether we had the right number of directors to vote on the right number of things.

59:22It's all paperwork stuff. It's all stuff that would normally be resolved with a phone call and possibly a refiling and stuff like that. They've not found any evidence of misappropriation of funds. And in fact, we moved to dismiss on this basis. Although they huff and puff a lot, I mean, there's 60-odd pages of rhetoric, but the actual charges, they haven't got anything. Who is suing you? This is New York State. So they're using tax dollars still? Oh, yes, that's right. Enormous. They've spent a great deal of money on this. They also, very weirdly, subpoenaed Facebook for all our records of all our dealings with Facebook.

1:00:01Well, Facebook banned us in 2020 as part of Zuckerberg's campaign to defeat Donald Trump. They thought we were pro-Trump. So we actually hadn't had any dealings with Facebook for more than two years when they came after us. But nevertheless, they got all these records off of Facebook. But they've done nothing with them. Because, of course, there's nothing there. I think they genuinely thought that they would find that we were accepting money from the Russians. The Russians? To run bat farms, you know. Do you remember that was the allegation with interference in 2016 that the Russians were financing tiny little Facebook pages and that's how they were manipulating the election.

1:00:43I think they genuinely believe that. I think one of the things about Democrats is that they really do believe their own propaganda. Oh, 100%. They do think that the Middle America's full of people wearing pointed hats. We'll be at war with Qatar by the end, just because they've talked themselves into believing Qatar secretly controls America, as they did with Russia. Then we went to war with Russia, and we're still at war with Russia over there. Right. So the difficulty with this is that the Republicans believe the Democrat propaganda too, which is why they won't, for example, appeal to the white vote.

1:01:12One of the things we did at VDL is we discussed and documented what we call the Saylor's strategy, as opposed to the Rove strategy. in 2000 Karl Rove was saying that the Republicans have got to do outreach to minorities and it makes no sense statistically because I think George Bush George W. Bush got like 51 % of the white vote it's appalling performance so Steve Saylor was one of our writers who we've had on pointed out that if they could just increase that proportion of the white vote to what his father got which was like 57-58 % that would swamp and overwhelm any possible conceivable gain among minority voters.

1:01:53So we were saying, you should go for the white vote. And now this caused a great deal of trouble for us. I remember I got a letter from, an email from Jude Wyniski. Do you remember Jude Wyniski? Very well. He said, Peter, you've gone too far. In other words, appealing to the white vote is not allowed. Look, it's just a question arithmetic. You know, there's more of them than there are of minorities. in any case to this day the Republicans have still not done that they've done it why was Jude Wineski mad? Jude was a liberal you know way back when he was a liberal democrat and he still had a lot of these reflexes but it was just thought to be people just got very emotional about it you know they think it's somehow illegitimate and they still do think it's illegitimate for example so we see in Virginia in this last election You know, there's a young kid who's a complete cipher, Wall Street cipher, as far as I can see, chooses, has his success in the gubernatorial race.

1:02:58A candidate who was one, an immigrant, two, a woman, and three, black. So he's a black Jamaican immigrant. And this is how he's going to appeal to the white vote. They're going to get people in the halls of southwest Virginia out to vote for this black immigrant. It's ridiculous. And of course, they got a terrible share of the white vote. is like 53 % and that's why they lost. But they would rather lose than make a full-out appeal to white people. I think the tell was in the ability. So this was an, you know, I'm not saying a bad person, but Winsome Sears was not a good candidate. It was kind of an incapable candidate and hard to deal with.

1:03:35So, like, they chose her because she was black. That's right. Despite the fact that she wasn't good at her job. I mean, this is epidemic in the Republican Party. What's the epidemic in the country? They've chosen so many, but Republicans in particular have chosen so many black candidates. They're about to do it here in Florida. The next governmental candidate is like the black unless a miracle occurs. Why is that? They are just pixelated by this, transfixed by this, I'm trying to find the right word, hypnotized by this phenomenon, by the whole race question. They're just race whips is what it comes down to.

1:04:13They're just so afraid of being called racist that they'd rather lose with a black candidate than run a candidate to appeals to whites. Trump did appeal to whites, not enough, but he does it in some kind of really implicit way. If you actually look at what Trump said, in spite of all the rhetoric, he's not said anything that's explicitly white nationalist or anything. I see no sign that he's an ethnic or a civic nationalist. But for some reason, he's made some connection. I mean, all through West Virginia, while Biden was president, you would see these signs supporting Trump and saying very rude things about Biden.

1:04:50And these are outside trailhomes. Very rude things about Biden, yeah. I mean, you know, this is a poor area. These run-down trailhomes that you see with these Trump signs on them. For some reason, Trump made a connection with them. It's eerie. Now, on the other hand, And he also had a disconnection with the other side. So you get this Trump derangement syndrome. But he was able to mobilize the white voters. Why do you think that was? Which part of it? That he was able, working class whites love Trump. Trump is not a racist. I've never seen any sign of that at all. And not a white nationalist at all.

1:05:29And hardly a Christian nationalist. But he, for some reason, had an emotional connection with these voters. Why? Do you know? There's a concept in sociology called implicit community, you know. Communities that represent or appeal to some people without actually saying it explicitly. The classic example with NASCAR, for example. Why is NASCAR a white stronghold? Or everybody watching NASCAR is white. And the NASCAR operatives don't like this. They hate it. They're constantly trying to diversify. Republican Party is a classic example of this. I mean, without ever doing anything to deserve it, the Republicans have become absolutely unbeatable in Virginia.

1:06:09And you and I both remember that when the Democrats were unbeatable in Virginia. I forget when the last Republican, I always keep forgetting when the last Republican Democrat to carry West Virginia was, but it might have been Clinton. And now it's just, the Democrats have ceased to exist in West Virginia, even though this is a very poor state. Republicans prevailed simply by virtue of not being Democrats. Bill Clinton lost California in 92 and won West Virginia. That's how much has changed. Right. So there's something that's going on at a very deep psychological level, some kind of implicit signaling.

1:06:46It's baffling. Now, of course, he did say, you know, when he came down the elevator and said just a few words about Mexico, about Mexican immigration, and never looked back. So he obviously struck a nerve there. So he did enough to strike a nerve. simply by raising immigration in this sort of rather, you know, I'm sure it drives Stephen Miller crazy, incoherent and peculiar, and he can't forget his lines and says the wrong thing way that Trump does talk about immigration. But he did raise it, and of course, until then, it had been driven out of Republican politics completely. I know, we wrote about it for 16 years.

1:07:24You were fired over it, right. There's almost no sign that any Republican would pick it up. But then when he did the dam broke, and now a big difference that I found, Tucker, is if you speak to grassroots Republicans as opposed to elected Republicans, the consensus is overwhelming that immigration has got to be ended. The consensus is overwhelming. Whereas when I got involved in this in the early 90s, a lot of Republicans never heard of this question. And they would assume, for example, that immigrants don't go on welfare to the same extent that native born do, which is completely wrong. It's completely reverse of the truth.

1:08:01And it was back then. It was obvious that they were going back into welfare in disproportionate numbers. But people didn't know. And the Wall Street Journal is not telling them. Well, the Wall Street Journal still isn't telling them, but they do know now. And maybe we played a role in that. Well, yeah, and it's had such a complex and degrading effect on the native population. It hasn't been, it's not just a matter of competition in the job market or my, you know, my tech job went to an Indian or something. It's way more complicated than that. And as, you know, immigrant communities became totally dependent on federal benefits, it changed the incentive structure for native-born communities.

1:08:40And a lot of them started going on it at higher rates also. So it just, it created a vortex that's hurt everybody, I think, especially the whites. Where does it go from here? The big thing that has to, the next, if I was still running VDAEA and on my own website, peterbrimmo.com now, what I'm interested in is legal immigration. Legal immigration is still running at a million a year. Now, that puts the fact that the foreign born population in the US has fallen by two and a half million in the last, just joined this year. That's an extraordinary number. I used to track it VDAEA, the foreign born population, because as the way of tracking the impact of immigration, it very rarely goes negative.

1:09:24It went negative briefly when Trump first got in because they were frightened of him and a lot of illegals left. And then towards the end, before COVID, it was falling because of various technical executive action measures that Trump had taken, the administration had taken to tighten up on both legal and illegal immigration. Now it's 2.5 million, gone four and 2.5 million foreign-born population. even though we know a million legal immigrants have come in, 90 % of them color, by the way, only about 10 % white. So what we really need is an immigration moratorium. And I'm delighted to say that there is a bill proposed by Chip Roy in the House, it's called the Paws Act, calling for moratorium.

1:10:12And there's several other very interesting bills. There's a very good bill on both right citizenship and let me see what I'm looking at, a list here, secure the border. I mean, in other words, they should set and codify Trump's activities, tighten up on the executive action, tighten up on the southern border because we know that when the Democrats get in, they'll reverse it. But they won't be able to do that if it's in the law. They'll have to pass a law and have to admit what they're doing. The problem is that the White House seems to be, is not pushing any of these bills. And unless they do, I don't think that Speaker Johnson is going to raise anything.

1:10:51He's just going to, you know, he's just going to lie low. And I don't know why the White House isn't pushing these bills. Of course, it's got its hands full in Minnesota, where they clearly need to declare the Insurrection Act and that kind of thing. And they keep going around blowing up foreign governments and stuff like that, and sinking ships and stuff. I mean, which it must be very entertaining, but I would really rather than focus on ending this immigration disaster. You know, it's whatever it is, 34 years now since I started writing about this in National Review. I'm 78. I can't wait much longer.

1:11:29I think that you just get on with it. And you have a number of children who will inherit the country. That's really the point. You know, people occasionally, yeah, people say, okay, I get attacked all the time for being an immigrant. My position is, you know, I'm an immigrant doing a dirty job that Americans won't do to talk about immigration. But the real reason is I have children here. My youngest child is 10 years old. And God knows what the country is going to be like by the time she, you know, she's a grown woman. Are you bitter?

1:12:06I've been extremely blessed in my personal life, even though my first wife died. So I don't think...

1:12:20I think things could have worked out differently for me professionally. But in my personal life, I'm very blessed. You don't seem angry. I mean, because my read on it is what happened to you is grotesque and is evil and not the kind of thing I thought would ever be allowed here. So I'm shocked, always shocked to hear your story. I am, I guess I am bitter at the conservative movement, people in the conservative movement, people I've known for 30, 40 years who basically haven't helped us, haven't defended us. The most prominent people who have defended us, Tucker, are you and Laura Loomer, your friend Laura Loomer.

1:13:00So that just shows how ecumenical we are. So Loomer helped you? Oh, yeah. She supported us on Twitter when we were... Good for her. When we were trying to raise money to defend ourselves. And she may be... I have a GiveSang Go, which I just launched before Christmas. Frankly, it's helped us personally because, of course, we're now facing tremendous legal costs personally. And I believe she's helped us with that. Have you received any help from the Department of Justice?

1:13:31We know that there are people in the Department of Justice who are not directly. On the other hand, Trump can't stand Letitia James, quite rightly. And they've made various attempts to bring her to book for various crimes. For one thing, I mean, she's clearly guilty of massive mortgage fraud going back over 40 years. But, you know, the obverse of lawfare run by Democrats is joint notification by Democrats. They've been unable to indict her because judges will keep disallowing the prosecutors and because the grand jury won't indict Democrats. So I don't know where that stands. They also have an investigation into her deprivation of Trump's civil rights in these scandalous cases, in this hush money case and the fraud case and so on, which should never have been allowed to go to court.

1:14:23The judges should have stopped it, but of course the judges are on the other side. And a judge is just trying to strike that down by disallowing the prosecutor. I mean, what's happening is these Democrat senators not only have the power to veto judicial appointments, federal judicial appointments, but they also have the power, apparently, to veto prosecutors, federal prosecutors. And they're apparently taking the position that they won't allow the appointment of a federal prosecutor if he's likely to prosecute Letitia James or any other Democrats, you know, and God knows there are enough Democrats out there that need prosecuting.

1:14:58That's how they're protecting them. In many respects, you know, we're looking to slow motion civil war here. I mean, New York and Minnesota have essentially seceded from the Union. The whole legal systems are opposed to what the federal government is doing. Jonathan Turley, who is a First Amendment specialist, wrote recently that New York is the land that law forgot because normal legal norms simply don't apply there. what happens is what the Democrat operatives want. And of course, this is not a government under law. So in effect, New York is seceding from the Union. And that's why I think ultimately we're going to have to go to the Insurrection Act and we're going to have to go to the wholesale impeachment of judges.

1:15:43All these judges brought in by Biden. I think he had one or two white men, both of whom were gay, something like that, all the others were women and people of color and so on. and they deliver the most extraordinary rulings disregarding the plain letter of the law ultimately it's going to have to be purged of the judicial system Trump when that happens Trump will be attacked as destroying the third branch of government but it's been completely destroyed long before Trump

1:16:17my last question to you Peter Berlund thank you so much for doing this is, are you hopeful?

1:16:29I have a, I have a, one of the things I want to be remembered for is based on a talk I gave in about 2015 is that miracles happen quite often in politics. Yes. I mean, nobody, nobody expects the Soviet Union collapse. Are you old enough to remember that? I'm 56, yeah. I remember it like it was yesterday. 30 years ago. I know. 30 years ago. I mean that's literally true nobody, nobody either on the left or the right expected the Soviet collapse on the other hand you know I don't think they expected the Catholic Church to go in the direction it went in Vatican II and and on the third hand nobody expected Trump and he has been a miracle I mean he's changed the situation in so many ways not of which I think he has probably thought about but he does it anyway so I'm hopeful because I think miracles happen in politics frequently, but we need one.

1:17:22The situation right now, we're heading in a very, very bad direction. And in the situation where, you know, Democrat politicians are openly calling people to disobey federal law, disobey law, prevent ICE from deporting illegals,

1:17:41that's more extreme than ever happened in the South during the desegregation. Much more. It's more extreme than what the South did at Fort Sumter. I mean, this is insurrection, actual insurrection. It's insurrection, that's right. That's right, it's insurrection. And of course, Eisenhower and Kennedy did use the Insurrection Act to impose integration.

1:18:06He sent the 101st Airborne to a high school. Right, right. With the total applause from the mainstream media, which was then, of course, completely oligopolistic. I mean, it was dominant. At least now we have Twitter, even if we are shadow banned on Twitter. Are you still shadow banned? Oh, yeah. Well, as far as we can see, we are. Anne Calder, you know, her followership has not risen for like six years. It's been 2.1 million for six years. It doesn't go up. It doesn't go down. I mean, it's obvious. You can see from the engagement that there's something very strange going on. It's all the Indians he has in there.

1:18:42He hasn't been able to root them out yet. Peter Ramon, thank you very much. Thank you, Tug.