Saagar Enjeti: Elon’s America Party, Iran, and Jeffrey Epstein Is Apparently Innocent Now

24:45There's a lot of stuff going on. I get a call from someone I know who I like, who's a true hardcore neocon, many of whom I liked personally, who's writing a book on Epstein. Two people I know together wrote this book on Epstein. I don't want to name them. I don't want to be mean or anything. But they're like, can we come on your show? We want to be written a book on Epstein and this whole scandal. So I read the book and it's very sophisticated. And it's like Epstein's super bad, but the Epstein story is really limited to Epstein, this bad guy who died. And there's no, you know, there's no evidence it was part of anything bigger that had anything to do with other countries.

25:22And they come on my show and I interview them and they're like, no, you know, yeah, there's all this stuff, mysteries. We couldn't get to the bottom of it. But, you know, Epstein's really, really bad. And I, looking back, I'm like, that was all, like, that was by design. Yes. Right? It was like, wow, we're exposed here. and we need to, you know, we need to like throw, we need a Warren commission, actually. No, you're right. Except a real one at this time. It didn't work because, you know, Vanity Fair, to its great credit, wrote a couple of pieces and then they stopped covering it, I noticed. But they kind of got to the Wexner thing.

25:57Who's this Wexner guy? Who is this? Who is this? And what ties do these guys have to foreign intel services? Yes. Which were deep. I mean, I think Ehud Barak lived at Jeffrey Epstein's place off Fifth Avenue. He flew on his plane 30 times, lived often at his townhouse in Manhattan. At one time, the largest residence in the history of New York City, transferred to him by deed by Leslie Wexner for what purpose, we have no idea. He invested in Ayyad Barak's defense intelligence startup. And I think the defense intelligence part there may be even as interesting as the fact that it's a former Israeli prime minister and former head of Israeli military intelligence.

26:38I mean, this is what I'm saying about the money. The money is so important to the story because we already have documented cases of CIA, Israeli, and others buying up private corporations which pose as, let's say, cybersecurity firms that sell to the government or other governments and use those as backdoors. So look, if you're Ayyud Barak, you've probably met some of the richest people on the planet. Why do you need these investments from Jeffrey Epstein, of all people, a tax advisor to the super rich. What did Bill Gates get from his repeated involvement with Jeffrey Epstein? Why did Melinda Gates, you know, divorce Bill Gates after years and obvious knowledge of his philandering in the past?

27:19Are we really to believe it's about philandering, you know, from 20 years ago, which is well known, apparently, within Microsoft? No, it's because she probably started to get a little aware, or perhaps there was something else going on there as to the extent of what that relationship was. And, you know, the fact is, is even from public reporting, we're told that Jeffrey Epstein was seen by Gates as the conduit to win the Nobel Peace Prize. How? For what purpose? How does he have all of these ends with the highest level of the intelligence or the scientific community? And then, of course, I mean, it doesn't take a genius to see the intertwinement between the scientific community, the academic research industrial complex, and the intelligence community.

27:54So all of these pieces, This is the unfortunate part. And, you know, even returning, like you said, to him being killed himself or him allegedly killing himself. Let's not forget Michael Bodden, who I think is a very authoritative figure. You know, he reviewed all of the documents, the autopsy, etc. So this is not a case of suicide. I've talked to him about it.

28:41But my only conclusion is just a return is it's just a signal to the court is don't worry about it. We've got you. It doesn't. The people don't matter in this. Man, I think this for a bunch of reasons, it's so obvious. It is salacious. People have followed it for years. The president promised to reveal the truth about this. Pam Bondi, as you said, will on television. So we have the truth. We're going to give it to you. Yes. I think this is kind of I think this is a big deal. It's a really big deal. Well, I hope so, too, actually. So let's just assess this logically. They're covering up, the DOJ, the current DOJ under Pan Bondi is covering up crimes, very serious crimes by their own description.

29:24Why are they doing that? So there are really only two potential explanations that I can think of. Maybe you've got another. The first is that Trump is involved, that Trump is on the list, that they've got tape of Trump doing something awful. I don't believe that for two reasons. One, I've talked to Trump about it a lot. And I know him. He's not that, you know, for whatever his sins. I don't think he's that guy, actually. I don't think he likes creepy sex stuff. That's just my view. But moreover, but more, I think, convincing is that this is all information that the Biden administration had. And if there was evidence that Trump had been involved in illegal sexual activity, you think the people who made up Russiagate wouldn't have leaked it?

30:04Right. Come on now. So the only other explanation that I can think of, again, maybe you've got another, is that intel services are at the very center of this story, U.S. and Israeli, and they're being protected. I think that seems like the most plausible. That's the most obvious. I have a history of this. There have been multiple documented cases of pedophilia inside of the CIA perpetrated by CIA officers, documented that in many of those – I believe over a dozen cases. This was a BuzzFeed news piece years back where the CIA specifically did not want to prosecute those individuals in federal court for fear that they would reveal sources and methods if they were pulled into open court, and they basically just made it go away.

30:42The only time they actually prosecuted somebody for child pornography was whenever he had already being prosecuted for mishandling classified information. Well, when they want to crush you, they put kiddie porn on your computer. Why don't I have a computer? Don't own one. If you're an important person, you should be careful. No computer in my house. This is an important thing, though, is that we already have documented cases of them covering this up. I believe the CIA inspector general, I forget the exact quote, but he said something along the lines of you wouldn't even believe the amount of child porn.

31:12you know, that I've seen while I'm on this job. I mean, these are depraved. Look, I mean, it's a large organization, a small percentage of the US, you know, we can make that argument. I think there is like something pathological, you know, kind of in the minds of the people who excel in this type of environment. Of course, it's based on lying. Yes. And lying is the gateway drug to every other sin. Of course, and the veil of secrecy that protects the CIA up to and including its budget, which we can't know, makes all kinds of really evil behavior possible. In fact, it inspires it. If you felt, if you had the cloak of invisibility, would that improve or degrade your behavior?

31:48Yeah. Everyone knows the answer to that. Of course, you'd be like, I'm invisible. At some point, you're going to have to go up and go like, ah, you know, like you couldn't. Well, and they see. It doesn't make you a better person. They see their own colleagues getting away with it. And it's a permission structure. And so, look, I mean, that's a small case, but it's just shows us that it's obvious. And it's something that has been in multiple intelligence communities have been ensnared in this. Again, I highly recommend Daryl Cooper's episode on the entire Epstein saga because I didn't know about this case in Northern Ireland.

32:16Am I allowed to listen to that? Oh, right. I was incredibly informed by Mark Levin that he was a Holocaust denier. Oh, I mean, words are supposed to have meaning, you know. Can I ask about the neocons who are, I mean, keep in mind that it was Jay Lefkowitz, who's Bill Kristol's lawyer, who represented the Weekly Standard when I worked there, who was an Epstein lawyer. Yeah. And so, like, where is Mark Levin on Epstein? I noticed that all these very voluble people who do not hesitate before imposing their opinions on the rest of us suddenly don't have very strong opinions about Epstein. What is that?

32:49Every accusation is actually an admission. But why is Mark Levin covering for Epstein? That's kind of weird. That's a great question. And in particular when he's going to accuse you of being funded by the Qatari government. If only. Right. That's what I mean about the accusation is the admission. The Qatari government. The accusation, you know, they can concoct all these wild schemes about how Steve Wyckoff or me or you or anybody else is funded by the state of Qatar. When in reality, I mean, as you know, it's like, we're really, you guys want to talk about foreign funding? Let's go. Let's take a look at your C3s and release all of the data.

33:21I would be happy to take a look at it for you. Especially Qatar. I found out last night at dinner, you went to high school in Qatar. Yes, I did. Yeah, they love to use that one. I went to high school my last year, American School of Doha. By the way, I don't think the Qatari government likes me very much because I've talked quite a bit about how a lot of migrant laborers are abused there. But, of course, they still find that tenuous connection is some sort of admission. Supposedly, I'm funded. The only people who fund me are my business and the people who are previous subscribers, which is great.

33:50And that's part of the reason I can speak the way that I am. I literally dare them to disclose their donors and those ties to the Israeli government and the Israel lobby. I dare them to do it, and they never will, or any of the other foreign governments that directly prop them up. And this brings us to Epstein. Why – the Epstein – the Wesley Wexner Foundation under Jeffrey Epstein paid Ehud Barak$2.3 million to write two papers. I believe he did not even finish the second one. This is a nonprofit funnel of money. Really? What's going on with that? Can I get that gig? Yeah, can I – that sounds like a great gig.

34:24For anybody out there who's struggling with their bills, money is easy. OK, whenever you're willing to engage in a lot of very sketchy behavior. And this is a pattern I've noticed all across Washington is that they ignore strategically the Epstein story because it's inconvenient. And it's not or not even really inconvenient. I think it's just so deeply enmeshed here. And I just bring it back to Alex Acosta. He told us the truth once, which was or not us. He told them the truth once in sworn testimony. He belonged to intelligence. And we've never I mean, with Maxwell, who we have all of these documented ties to Mossad and to the intelligence community and all these sketchy dealings.

35:01And then his daughter working with Epstein. We have the Wexner Foundation, which we know is highly involved in Zionist interests here in the United States of America. We have Epstein as well, who's been linked to some of these organizations or at least through funneling money via the Wexner Foundation. We know about his past with money laundering for what purpose. That is the crux of the intelligence community's ability to move things around and to pay for off-the-books, extremely off-the-books activity. It traces back to the lying, as you said. That's part of why we can't have the truth around.

35:34You probably heard about Eight Sleep. Lots of people are talking about it. It is a company with one mission, improving your sleep. and it's changing the way people do that, the way they get a good night's rest. We just got word that their team is launching a new product. It's called the Pod 5. It's an original and innovative mattress cover plus a blanket that uses precision temperature control to regulate your body's sleep cycles and give you the perfect sleep, which really, really matters. It can range all the way from 55 degrees to 110 degrees, meaning that you're covered no matter what. It's like electric blanket to the next level, but also a cooling blanket.

36:14So it makes you sleep better. Temperature has a massive effect on the way you sleep. By the way, it also detects snoring. And then it adjusts your bed position to reduce or completely stop it. So there are a lot of ladies in America who are gonna be grateful for this product. Everybody who works here will tell you because they all use it, that there's no better way to be alert, productive, and happy than by sleeping well. And Eight Sleep really does help. Visit 8sleep.com slash Tucker. Use the code Tucker to get 350 bucks off your pod five ultra. If you don't like it, you return it within a month.

36:50That won't happen. We think you'll love it, but you can if you want. 8sleep.com slash Tucker. Hey, Chicago, class it up with Crocs. You know back to school is coming in fast. So why wait to find your new Fave footwear? Step into a local Crocs store and step into your new look. Try it. Style it. Make it yours. Because the right pair doesn't just show up. It shows off. First day fits, handled. Walk out ready for whatever's next. Visit your nearest Croc store today. Chronic migraine is 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting four hours or more. Botox, onabotulinum toxin A, prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine before they start.

37:37It's not for those with 14 or fewer headache days a month. It prevents on average 8 to 9 headache days a month versus 6 to 7 for placebo. Prescription Botox is injected by your doctor. Effects of Botox may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. Allerge your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition. Patients with these conditions before injection are at highest risk. Side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue and headache. Allergic reactions can include rash, welts, asthma symptoms and dizziness.

38:07Don't receive Botox if there's a skin infection. Tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, including ALS Lou Gehrig's disease, myasthenia gravis or Lambert-Eaton syndrome, and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. Why wait? Ask your doctor, visit BotoxChronicMigraine.com, or call 1-800-44-BOTOX to learn more. Why can't we have a country that is sovereign, that can make its own decisions and restore health to our international relations, where we have allies, hopefully many more than we currently have. If we don't have enough allies, in my opinion, I'm hardly in isolation.

38:42Or we have the wrong allies. Or the wrong allies. But the number is dwindling. So it's, right, only a couple real allies left, and I'm not even sure they're allies, but whatever. But why couldn't you have, at least conceptually, a situation where, you know, you act in your own interest, and to the extent that other countries share that interest, there's a union set of interests, you ally with them, you know, transactionally. In other words, we're both for that. We both want to build an oil pipeline somewhere. We both want this shipping lane open or we're both mad at this other country. You know, it's like, why couldn't you have that?

39:14It's so difficult. I mean, that's why I mentioned Israel previously in the example. I think it's really important. I mean, if you were to listen to Fox News, you would think that this is the greatest juggernaut economy in the history of the world. I mean, I had ChatGPT do a mathematical analysis and I said, give me five countries that best resemble the U.S.-Israel trading relationship. And it was Singapore, you know, countries like Singapore, Chile and Switzerland. And I love those countries. I love those places. Frankly, I think Singapore has a better, if we're talking about grand strategy and all that, of the list, I'll put that one higher than any of the rest.

39:51But we don't talk about this in the terms of actual transaction because then people might actually start to ask a lot of questions. I mean I remember this with Ukraine. I was like we barely do bilateral trade with this country. It's one of the most insignificant countries in all of Europe to the US trading relationship. We can talk at – the way they blow up the Israel relationships is Israel does our dirty work for us in the US. And I'm like, well, are they doing our dirty work or are they doing their own dirty work and then basically passing the buck and the bill onto the US? United States. It's worth that anyway.

40:22Exactly. And so then it comes down to all these questions, like you said, of national interest. And even in the exception that we make for this country is just so unbelievable. I mean, let's take the case of Jonathan Pollard, who's one of the biggest traitors in the history of the United States for passing classified information on to the Israeli government. They were caught out in the open. Prime Minister Netanyahu used to visit our soil and actively campaign and urge our presidents of the United States to pardon Jonathan Pollard for betraying our country to his country. Do you have any idea what they did with the classified information, those secrets?

40:55Well, I actually have no idea, but what I do remember - They gave them to the Soviet Union. Oh, that's right. That's right. And this was during, this was in the 80s during the Cold War. It was 1985. It was 85. I remember it well. I lived in Washington. My dad worked for the government. And that was a, you know, that was a very serious, whatever you think of the Cold War in retrospect. But like at the time, the full focus of the US government was focused, you know, was in opposition to the Soviets. And the Israelis gave a lot of that classified information from the U.S. Navy to the Soviet government in exchange for allowing refuseniks, you know, Jewish Soviet citizens to move to Israel, which I'm totally for.

41:34I mean, I'm glad that they got out. I'm glad that they got out of the Soviet Union and made it to Israel. That's great. But they took our secrets and gave them to our main enemy, are really only global enemy. What? Yeah. And then have the audacity. Well, then how can you have a relationship after that? Yeah, and have the audacity to come to our country and to lobby in seriousness to the presidents to visit this man in prison, to grant him Israeli citizenship, to grant him basically the moment he's on parole, he immediately moves to Israel. He received a hero's welcome and it remains there to this day.

42:07I mean, we would not allow that for any of the country. This is not a healthy relationship. This is not a healthy relationship, exactly. And that's an important thing for Americans to understand. One of the many tragic byproducts is I think it's destroying the right. And I say that as someone who's been on the right my whole life, and my whole life I've been on the right, and I really sort of believe in the basic ideas, and I'm not a liberal. That's for sure. In fact, I'm way more conservative than Mark Levin. That's for sure. But it's like the problem is the promise of MAGA is America first, and the contradiction is just too obvious.

42:42You can't, you know, if you're Joe Biden, and you're, you know, senile and it's being run by a bunch of sinister, shadowy figures in the background and you do something like this, it's like, of course they're doing it. But if you get up and you say, we're going to restore greatness to this country, we're going to do it by putting our own interests first. That's what every country does. That's kind of natural. It's organic. And then you put the interests of a country of 9 million people above your own in a way that's just insulting. People can't deal with that. Like their brains start to explode.

43:13And I think this is blowing up the coalition. I hope I'm wrong. I support the coalition. All these people are like, you're not MAGA. Really? Did you campaign for Trump? Right. Please. That's right. I mean, please. You know, I'm liberal. Okay. But I worry about that. I feel like that's happening. I think you should be worried about it. And well, look, we can parse these things at a variety of levels. So you said MAGA, and I think that's important. I think the vast majority of people who are self-identified as MAGA, they supported the Iran strikes and they generally support President Trump and they have a lot of trust in the man.

43:45They do. What I keep trying to tell people is people are saying, oh, there's a split in the MAG. But you said it correctly, the right. And I would look at the right as the coalition that delivered Donald Trump the first popular vote victory since 2004. The margin of anti-war support for Donald Trump is his entire electoral margin in the state of Michigan, the entire electoral margin in the state of Michigan. And I think that his ability to win Michigan twice now, three in three races is pretty damn important for looking at the so-called realignment of the white working class and of this new coalition.

44:16Let's also look. I actually on our show, our producer went to the Bronx, AOC's district, and interviewed people who were AOC Trump voters. And the number one reason that we got from them was war. It was it was the promise to bring an end to the war, both in Israel and Gaza and in Ukraine, because there is something visceral. Let's say that you live in the Bronx and you're having problems in your neighborhood and watching these countries get tens of billions of dollars. Three carrier strike groups of the United States of America were present in the Middle East specifically to back up Israel during the 12-day war.

44:52You asked Ted Cruz a very important question. Do you know how much that costs? I looked it up. It's actually public information. It's about a quarter – I believe it's like a quarter billion dollars per group per month for deployment. That was just for the deployment. The April operation. That's separate from weapons fired. That's separate from all the – and by the way, that number, which they will never release, is in the billions of dollars. And then let's take opportunity costs. We basically used up a massive stockpile of U.S. interceptors, which are critical for our bases in Qatar or for everywhere else around the world on behalf of this foreign nation, which we were told repeatedly the reason we give it$3.3 billion a year was so they can defend themselves.

45:35Well, if they can defend themselves, then why did it take the full deployment of the U.S. empire to basically shield it? And even then, in terms of its shielding, as you – I mean, I'm sure you felt the same way. I've been to Tel Aviv. Watching that city get rocked by rockets was a shocking experience. That was not what we were – I hated it too. I've been there. It's a beautiful city. The people there are great. And to watch their cities, I mean, that's some London-level photography from World War II. And so the fact that that happened and that also, by the way, we just increased the defense budget to$1 trillion.

46:07For what purpose? I can't exactly tell you because even with that money all spent in the past, it doesn't seem that we're all that competent at building interceptors, at ammunition. Russia, I believe, has a defense budget like more than – what is it, one quarter or something like that of the United States produces like more ammunition than all of NATO combined. How do these things happen, right? So we have a right for corruption. The point is is that MAGA and the right, let's say the non-MAGA right, people who voted for Donald Trump in good faith on a variety of good promises, I think for those people and especially younger Americans, there is a visceral disgust at watching the level of tension and obsession over this foreign nation.

46:45And it's particularly galling because we have people like Ted Cruz who say, why are you obsessed with Israel? And it's like, what did I just describe here about this relationship? I'm calling you an anti-Semite. Call me an anti-Semite like 10 minutes in. It's disgusting. Everyone wants to feel safe in an increasingly dangerous world. And for most of history, people assume that good locks and a loud alarm system are enough to do the trick. But they are not. The more time that passes, the more stories we hear about actual home break-ins, home invasions that happen despite these tools being in place.

47:16True security requires more than that, and that's why we trust SimpliSafe. SimpliSafe is a preemptive security system. It prevents home invasions before they happen, rather than just scaring people away once they show up at your house, or they're in your house. Its cameras and live monitoring agents detect suspicious activities around your home. If someone's lurking there, they engage in real time. They activate spotlights. They can even alert the police who will show up. It's been called the best security system of 2025. Over 4 million Americans trust SimpliSafe to keep them safe. Monitoring plans start at about a dollar a day.

47:49There's a 60-day money-back guarantee. Visit SimpliSafe, S-I-M-P-L-I, safe.com slash Tucker to get 50 % off a new system with a professional monitoring plan. Your first month is free. That's SimpliSafe.com slash Tucker. There is no safe like Simply Safe. Preemptive safety. Hey, Chicago. Class it up with Crocs. You know back to school is coming in fast. So why wait to find your new fave footwear? Step into a local Crocs store and step into your new look. Try it. Style it. Make it yours. Because the right pair doesn't just show up. It shows off. First day fits, handled. Walk out ready for whatever's next.

48:34Visit your nearest Croc store today.

49:04speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition. Patients with these conditions before injection are at highest risk. Side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue, and headache. Allergic reactions can include rash, welts, asthma symptoms, and dizziness. Don't receive Botox if there's a skin infection. Tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, including ALS Lou Gehrig's disease, myasthenia gravis, or Lambert-Eaton syndrome, and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects.

49:32Why wait? Ask your doctor, Visit BotoxChronicMigraine.com or call 1-800-44-BOTOX to learn more. It's so exactly what liberals do. It's so exactly the woke, right? I mean, it's bewildering and it's dishonesty. I'm not engaging. I'm off the internet, but I give up. But it's so revealing. It's like, wait, I just voted against this. I voted against not just the argument, but the style of argument of the left, which is to not engage with the points that you make at all, to lie past them, ignore them, and instead attack your motive and your character. You're a racist. You know, you're getting paid by Russia.

50:14We moved seamlessly from that to like Mark Levin saying the exact same thing. You're a racist. You're anti-Semite. You're hanging around with Holocaust deniers. What? You're paid by a foreign country, Qatar, which I still find hilarious. For the record, of course, I've never taken a dollar from anybody. I don't even have investors, but whatever. But it's go-to-motive rather than engage with what you said. I saw this all coming a mile away. You did? Yeah, because— I'm heartbroken to see it. Well, you should be. This is why you've been successful, because you're smart. Well, I mean, I've taken a lot of—it's cost me a lot of personal problems, I can tell you that.

50:55But I remember, I believe it was right after October 7th, Bill Ackman and a lot of other prominent Wall Street financiers who are very pro-Israel. Bill Ackman's done a lot for our economy, sorry. Oh, that's right. That's right. I forgot about that. Talking down publicly traded corporations and then shorting them. That's herbal life. It's capitalism. How are investors doing? I would just ask people to go and take a look at those books, but whatever. Let's take a look at Ackman. He's a very patriotic guy who's done a lot for this country, so keep that in mind. Okay. Well, this patriotic American and a lot of these other pro-Israel billionaires were literally compiling lists of students who were protesting the Israeli government's response to October 7th.

51:35Many of these were American citizens compiling lists and basically saying don't ever hire these people and circulating around the highest levels of Wall Street finance, of technology, getting people fired from law firms that they had offers to. Just because they criticized America? Because they criticized Israel. What about America? Yes, that's an important question. But what I noticed, and I said this at the time, is for all of these people, it is now obvious that they never were really opposed to DEI. Oh, of course not. They paid for it. Yes, that's a great point. What they wanted was they want their interest group, Zionism in particular, in support of the Israeli government to be included within the DEI regime.

52:16And that was a very important point because eventually that became fused somehow with MAGA. And that explains a huge level of a lot of very high-profile, very, very rich people in technology industry and in finance who supported the Trump administration. And the promise effectively that has now been delivered is that by using this newly crafted like DEI-style regime, which basically uses the state and the police state as effectively a force for a political party in Israel. That's another thing that I love when you say this as well. It's not about even Israel at this point. We're talking about the Likudnic interests in the United States of America.

52:54A guy who got 30 percent of the vote. 30 percent of the vote who is under investigation for taking money from who? Qatar. Right. It's amazing. He's literally fired the head of his own FBI for bribery allegations from Qatari money in his government and has the gall to have his interest groups here in America accuse people like you and me of taking money from the very same government that he's been credibly accused of taking. Listen, I don't know. You know, Trump says he's innocent or whatever. Pretty cheeky. Pretty cheeky, I would say. It is cheeky. And to bring it back, I guess, is what you said is about America.

53:28And the fact is, is that we're watching the weaponization largely backed by a lot of these people who have hijacked, I think, a large part of the American. Maybe they didn't hijack it. Maybe I'm the idiot, right? I could be the idiot for believing some of these things. Why did I read Christopher Caldwell's book and listen to Christopher Rufo and others about the civil rights regime and all of this criticism correctly of Ibrahim Kendi and the Department of Anti-Racism and the enshrinement of DEI and the Civil Rights Administration just to watch it get turned around and, again, not even be used against people who are anti-American but people who are supporting a boycott of a foreign nation, a country here now where students could burn an American flag and be fine.

54:08But if they protest Israel, could be liable for either deportation if they're not a citizen or denied federal grant funding. The current Trump administration is suing, using the Civil Rights Title VI of the Civil Rights Act, Harvard University for not protecting Jewish students under the indifferent standard. Now, that same standard was used for some of the worst excesses in the 1970s and others of the civil rights. These are things we're supposed to be against. This is DEI, you know, run amok. And yet we're watching this happen in our own government. And I don't see, you know, there's so many people benched.

54:46There are a lot of bias against Jewish students at Harvard. Oh, no. Underrepresented. Not last time I checked. I mean, I guess what I object to is lying, of course, above all. But also I object to these kinds of identity politics. I thought the whole point was we're Americans by citizenship. Yes. Citizenship matters as it did in Rome. I mean, it did. Paul's on trial in Rome and he's like, hey, I'm a Roman citizen. They're like, whoa, they back right off because like that really meant something. And should be. It should mean something, I think. And. And they're continuing in this weird leftist frame where certain people have more rights than other people.

55:26That's right. And that's that's what we're watching. I just couldn't object to that more. And every American should. And look, you may not like these people. I probably wouldn't get along with a lot of these people. But let's sit here and talk about Harvard, like you said. I mean, to watch literally it's been 10 years ago. I was sitting with my friends in the Daily Caller office, which you were very kind to hire me into. and we were watching Ben Shapiro humiliate, Trigglypuff, right? We were watching leftist students get triggered and cry when Ben Shapiro would visit campus. And we thought it was hilarious.

55:5810 years later, I watched students literally crying at a podium with the House of Representatives Speaker Mike Johnson next to them talking about how I didn't feel safe while I was on campus. And it's like, well, why didn't you feel safe? Because people were shouting slogans, again, protesting a foreign government. Now, that's actually a lot more about the psychology of you. But regardless, I mean, did we not live through a decade of snowflake and fuck your feelings? Because I was there for that. And I'm not going to sit here and watch people who made millions of dollars, Shapiro and Dave Rubin and all these other people, making fun of student, leftist students, only to co-opt the same level of identity politics.

56:36And like you said about Harvard, okay, like this is important. What is the problem with Harvard? To me, the problem of Harvard is it took our most elite institute – Harvard is the whole Ivy League. Our most elite students, it crippled them with debt, and 41 percent of graduates now work in finance, consulting, and tech, okay? Some of the worst industries that are directly extractive of the American consumer, basically getting rich on their backs, addicting them to crippling financial products, technology. I don't even know what a lot of people consulting do. Apparently, they make a lot of money doing it.

57:09Is that a productive industry for our country? And then Harvard University admitted the same – actually, less students in the class of 2023 than it did in 1981. The US population has grown 110 million since that point. Now, why do they do that? It's for ultra exclusivity. It's to jack up prices for their tuition. They admitted fewer students in 81? Than in 81. And the U.S. population has grown 110 million since that point. Has their administrative staff grown? Of course. But actually, you're not even asking the right question. What about their endowment fund? They're basically a private equity firm with a small education department.

57:45And, you know, they lobby against the endowment tax through Congress. The endowment tax says, hey, increase your student body size relative to your endowment, and you don't have to pay any tax. But they don't do that because it's all about artificial constraints, saddling these kids up with debt, basically taking the best and brightest of the United States of America and turning them into cogs of managerial capitalism. That is not the Harvard University of the early, let's say, the World War II period. That is not the MIT. They're all doing the same thing. those universities were our crown jewel and got government money from them so that they could set up and go work in industries that were productive and beneficial to our country that's my current critique of harvard i think that's one most americans would agree with i think that's my critique of higher education in general it's not the middle eastern studies department okay it's not suing them under the civil rights act and to just to watch this weaponization right now you know by pam ponty it's such a lie it is a lie i mean if you really want to play like the demographics game and who's getting shafted and like well who gets into harvard actually let's see the look let's see the numbers and does that reflect the u.s population in fact let's get even radical on the subject let's measure it against iq tests yeah no i'm sure you can say well you know the american population it's not all qualified to go to harvard okay great so how about let's use SAT scores as a proxy for IQ?

59:10Is Harvard letting in the smartest people? No. In fact, there is a concerted effort right now to drop or abandon SAT or any other quantitative measure specifically to enshrine more of this DEI style regime. So who's actually getting discriminated against here? Exactly. And so then - It's too much though. Like I don't even want to have that conversation. I know the answer because I know the numbers, which I'm not going to repeat here. But because I don't want to add to the identity politics stuff because I think it's a dead end. That's not what we're about. I don't want to be about that. We want to live in a more equitable country.

59:42That's it. But the problem is when you lie that aggressively and you use my government to do it and all of its armed institutions to do it, then you force me. You're making people radical with the stuff. Yes, and they should be. I mean, I don't want radicalism, but they're forcing when the DOJ, when the Congress passes 22 anti-Semitism resolutions in the last few years, and there's still a lot of bias in America, you know? And there's still a lot of problems in America that are totally unaddressed, and they're getting worse. You turn people radical. I'm worried about that. One of those resolutions they passed through the House actually conflated anti-Semitism with anti-Zionism, which is, you know, I mean, they're literally saying it is anti-Semitic, as in - It is a crime to criticize a foreign country.

1:00:32A foreign country, or even an ideology which believes in the existence of a foreign country. Why are they doing this? Well, I mean, look. It's bonkers, man. It's bonkers. It's beyond bonkers. And I wish money were the answer. I'm not saying it isn't just a critical part of it. It is a part of just this propagandistic campaign to convince that this is our greatest ally, that actually we would die before we would let any of them die. And a lot of it is enshrined, unfortunately, in like a bastardization of Christian and rabbinical theology. as Ted Cruz revealed. I mean, actually what really revealed to me was he didn't even really know what he was saying, what he was quoting.

1:01:11But he was taught - He didn't know what book it was in. But that's a legitimate belief. I mean, that's how - It's in the Bible. Right. That's how we end up with Brian Mass wearing the uniform of a foreign country in my Congress. And that's what offends me more than anything is the only uniform, in my opinion, that a United States Congress person should ever wear is that of the United States of America. Well, yeah. Yeah, and I would say to the, you know, to MAGA voters, this is the program we voted for, the one that puts our country where we were born at the center of the conversation at the top of the priority list.

1:01:45Yeah. So those are the rules. So, like, anyway, where does this—I'm worried that the contradictions are too obvious. The lies are too transparent. This is too insulting. You can't—I can't even deal with it. I feel like I'm the least radical person I know. I just, I'm happy to not talk about certain subjects just so we can all get along. I'm a wasp in the end. I don't want conflict, okay? I know everyone thinks I'm like, I don't hate conflict actually, but they're forcing this on all of us. And I feel like the system is breaking as a result. Yeah. Do you feel that? I do. And the reason, I mean, it's, I don't think Marx actually said it, but that, you know, in accelerationism, it's about heightening the contradictions.

1:02:23It's a Marxian theory. And in a way, like I do think that that's what they're doing to all of us is they're forcing people who are sympathetic, who want to see our country first, who reject a lot of the premises of the left, spent a decade of our lives. In my case, you've spent multiple decades of your life fighting against many of these forces, which we found repulsive, which we blame for the destruction of our country, and then watching that get hijacked. And again, maybe I'm the fool. There was plenty of evidence it could go this way. I didn't think it would. I didn't think in particular it would go this far.

1:02:57But it's one of those where the breaking is happening at a voter level. And in particular, in the platform that you and I are speaking right now. I mean, as you know, I mean, I began my career by just going on Fox News. It's how I got trained in television. Obviously, you started and you've been on all these platforms. We could not even have this conversation. No. I would say 10 years ago. I don't think that the distribution and the audience and just the entire network that enables this possibility was there, but it's been felt at a deep level in the way that Oliver Stone's JFK film released something in America in 1991.

1:03:34It's always been inside of us, but now we have the voice. We have the words. But next is the tools, and a lot of people thought we had that tools with this administration. Can you just pause right now? So I should just say you alluded to it. You worked for me, not directly, but for a company that I helped start. And then at like a really young age, you decided to – you were one of the very first people I knew personally and decided to punch out and go independent because you had this really clear and it turned out correct view that the two-party system, while there are differences between the parties, but fundamentally they were aligned on the big issues.

1:04:12and that a lot of voters didn't agree with their position on the big issues, mostly the economy and war. And you kind of moved out into this independent media world at what age? I was 28, I guess. That's crazy. Yeah, 28 years old. So if you don't mind, if it's not too embarrassing, because you told me I asked you a bunch of very specific questions about it last night because I'm in that business, I'm interested. What, like how, you leave the Daily Caller, you go on Fox a lot, You're like a young pundit or whatever. So embarrassing. I did it too. I know it's so embarrassing. And then you decided to go independent.

1:04:49What happened? Can you give us a brief story? Because I think it says a lot about the moment. Well, I owe a lot to the organization you started and to Jeffrey Ingersoll, to Vince, to Neil Patel and all of these guys. And the reason why is they put me in the position that made me have this realization. And what it was is being a White House correspondent. And what I discovered as being a White House correspondent, I mean, I don't want to toot my own horn. I think I was good at it. I interviewed Trump four times in two years. I asked Sarah, you know, multiple questions for the record, multiple different foreign leaders, you know, got stories, scoops, etc.

1:05:19But what I came to understand in the White House briefing room is I would watch. So for people who don't understand, in the front row is all the networks, the major networks run by the White House Correspondents Association, which is a cartel, a non-governmental cartel, which runs the entire. I can get into that later if we would like. But I would watch every single person from the network ask some version of the same question, which was about Robert Mueller at the time. And I said, no one gives a shit about Robert Mueller. And I would always ask a question not about that. What I came to understand was that they were actually all performing for themselves.

1:05:49And what I really came to understand eventually was that the entire mainstream media is about performing for each other for social and for career purposes. But even more broadly is that the mainstream media is a trade publication. And it's a trade publication for people in Washington and for people in power. There is a boomer legacy element to this, which obviously exists. But broadly, it's not actually about informing the people. In fact, you know, in terms of the journalism that I did, I tried to always ask questions I thought were relevant to the actual voters. But I didn't realize how counter that was to the entire philosophy of a lot of the people who actually work and cover the media professionally.

1:06:25Then I came to see that Fox, CNN, MSNBC are all vital parts of this machine. It's all part of a machine where Washington as the imperial capital speaks to each other. They're conduits for information which is relevant only to an individual node within the nexus. The voter did not matter in that equation. So what I decided to do is I had this opportunity to go to The Hill, currently thehill.com, and co-host the show with currently my co-host Crystal Ball. And what her and I really bonded over – remember, the first segment we really bonded over was just about the opioid crisis. And I was like, I think that this is one of the most under-addressed issues in America.

1:06:59I think it's lip service at the White House and others. Nobody's really doing anything about it. Deaths of despair. Our life expectancy at that time was going down. And so we just – that was kind of the evolution, like you said, of realizing that where the two parties agree and the media in particular focuses on is really the exact opposite of where most people are. If you spend a lot of your time with people who are not political, they don't care about Robert Mueller. They don't particularly care about most of the scandals in Washington of the day. They're like, hey, my mortgage is really expensive.

1:07:29My kid's college really, if I was lucky enough to save for 529, the inflation has gotten so out of control. I can't do that. I'm really worried about the loan that my child is taking out. One of my friend's kids recently died of a drug overdose. These are the things that animate the kitchen table and about the concern and the feeling that our country is being taken away from the southern border. And it's not just a feeling of this uncontrolled chaos at the border. There's a feeling of the collapse of social cohesion in our country. All of us can feel it. If you go to another country like Switzerland or Japan with controlled immigration, you will realize how radical it is actually.

1:08:05And those are both very radicalizing experiences for me. But I just returned to the point of why I wanted to go independent fundamentally is I wanted to cover the news in a way that I felt was actually applicable to the lives of everyday people. And I noticed a burgeoning movement on YouTube and in podcasts where this distribution platform basically allowed me to talk as long as I want to in the way that I am with you. And I mean, the most frustrating moments in my career, 24 years old, young, embarrassing pundit is being invited on Fox News at 11.55 p.m. for a three-person conversation about nationalism.

1:08:40And I got to speak for maybe 45 seconds. I can't articulate all my thoughts on this subject, and they're actually really important. And that's where the fugazi element of all of that, it became too much, and I just felt so much more free. And by the way, as you know, at that time, everybody told me not to do it. They're like, what are you doing? You've got your career set. You're a White House correspondent. You can go work at any of these other companies. A lot of other companies were trying to recruit me at that time. They said, you're an idiot for going to this unproven concept. You don't know if it's going to work.

1:09:10And it was, I mean, the greatest bet, I guess, of my life because we took this small channel, Crystal and I, of some 6 ,000. I think we had 100 ,000 subscribers in three months. And we had an audience of millions, basically, by the time we'd left less than two years later. But that was the confidence that I had to go independent was I knew that the knowledge was there. Why did you leave if it was working? Well, the knowledge, basically, it became irreconcilable to be attached to a mainstream media organization. And I've talked about this publicly, but the owners and the people who worked there, we were starting to become so popular that our comments were causing problems in Washington.

1:09:45is that people were getting upset at the things we would say, advertisers or members of Congress, they would call our bosses and pressure began to come down to kind of change the way that we would talk about certain subjects. This is, by the way, happens in every mainstream media corporation. It's part of the reason that being, the way we set up our business is so the vast majority of our revenue comes from subscriptions. And it's because we don't want to be accountable to any advertiser or anybody else. We don't even read ads on our platform, specifically for that reason. And it's all to insulate my ability to be able to come here and talk the way that I do about a subject I feel passionately about, let's say Israel and free speech, which I know already, every word that I'm saying here is going to be dissected, is going to be used as an attack vector.

1:10:30And in the past, that could have cost me my career. And at the end of the day, that's why I decided to leave, is to be able to speak the truth. That's why Crystal as well was the level of control. Inevitably, even with the freest hand possible, while attached to these behemoths, mainstream media. It's irreconcilable. If you want to tell the truth, you cannot be attached to any organization, which depends on insider access and on insider money. You have to separate yourself from that entity. Well, yes, that has been the experience of my life. What were the red lines? Did you find? So you're young and you're, as you're hosting this show on a kind of brand new medium, you know, this weird setup where you're working for The Hill, but you're doing an independent show, you're learning what you're not allowed to say.

1:11:17Yeah, can't criticize the age of members of Congress. How did that work out, by the way? Conversations around age. Can't criticize TikTok, the Chinese government. That was a big one. Can't criticize or talk openly about Israel. Can't criticize, my favorite was CNBC, Jim Cramer. Can't criticize Jim Cramer? Which is hilarious. If you go on Twitter, there's an entire inverse Kramer index. Yeah, people get rich betting against Jim. People get very rich betting against that man. Jim Kramer is so stupid that people get rich taking the opposite advice. I still laugh about that one. What happened? I said he was an idiot.

1:11:54And, you know, we heard a little bit about that later. Your bosses were like, no. Oh, we can't say things like that, you know. Jim Kramer's very smart. He went to Harvard. Pharma. I forgot pharma. We talked a lot about big pharma. That's, you know, that's one. And I mean, look, take a look at the ads. Really, but it wasn't that. Because I didn't actually change anything I said. But I can't sit here and not lie to this audience and say that it was always in the back of my head. Oh, yeah. Oh, for sure. You don't even realize how present it is in your head until it's not there. Look, I mean, I was young.

1:12:26I need a career. I have to eat. I have a salary. These are realities that I'm just laying out for people. Yes. And as free and as ethical as I try to uphold myself in a crystal as well, We just could not stay in that environment, and that's why we decided to go. So then you decide to go, and you basically take a version of the same show, totally independent on the internet, relying on subscriptions, mostly subscriptions rather than advertising for the reasons you just so well described. What happens? Yeah, I mean, it wildly exceeds our expectations on the very first day of launch. On the first day?

1:13:02The first day of launch, I mean, they basically enabled us to run the company for a year, which was insane. I mean, in other words, you made enough on your very first day to run it debt-free for a year. To run the company. How many investors did you have? We had zero investors. The only investors, quote unquote, were my credit card account and her credit card account. So we took, it was a gamble entirely. If you don't mind me asking, what did it cost to launch it? I believe, probably like$50 ,000 or$60 ,000 if I had to guess. But that was it. The whole enterprise. Just to launch, to launch, not to run.

1:13:35In one day, you got a full year's operating revenue. What we were able to do, and actually enough so that we were even also able to hire, like at the time we needed a sound person. These are all important things. Lighting, an entire technical team, the ability to make sure that we're distributing faster. These are all more boring things for the audience, but things that people may not realize. The reason I'm asking you is because your story describes how low the barrier to entry is. Yes, yes. If you know what you want to say, if you have a point of view, if you're committed to honesty and independence, you can actually do it.

1:14:08You can do it. That's why it's so thrilling. That is why it's thrilling. I mean, I was taking a look at your setup this morning and I was talking to some of your tech guys and I said, isn't it amazing that we couldn't even do this 10 years ago? And I'm looking at your equipment. I have much of the same equipment. I mean, look, it's decent money, but it's not a lot of money actually. No, no, no. And especially compared to, I mean, you and I have seen those, the Fox News New York control room. I mean, it's like being in the International Space Station. It's crazy. Oh, when they fired me, they came and sent their guys up here and ripped, because I did my show from here for years and they ripped out all their equipment, which is fine.

1:14:38It was their equipment. Yeah, sure. And so we're like, and we have a full studio that, you know, we built with their money. You know, my guys built it, but whatever. And they put all their tech in there and then they took it all away. I wasn't mad, but I was like, okay, we have to, I have to pay for this now out of my pocket because I'm unemployed. And we just moved to our dining room table where literally our family dining room table who are sitting now. And it didn't cost that much. So I think that's the only, I never talk about money or business or because I'm not an expert on either one, but I just think it's so exciting to know that you can do that.

1:15:10And I hope that's inspiring to people who are out there. I think really what it comes down to is not only audience, but the ability to say what you actually think. And what I have found is that some of the most miserable people in all of media are the people who work in these corporations because they know and want to say many of the things you and I are saying. And they'll tell us privately, of course, but they'll never say it. And I don't really know how much money that's worth. But beyond that, I don't really know how as a human being, you know, you can just continue to get up and everything.

1:15:41Well, I agree. And I empathize because I was a TV anchor for most of my life. I empathize with the guys who like get the guest readout. You know, they sit down before the show, like who we're interviewing today. And there's Mark Levin on there. And like nobody likes Mark Levin. And he's horrible television. He's screechy. And what he's saying is like deranged. And even if you sort of agree with Mark Levin's point of view, you can't have Mark Levin on TV. It's just an insult to the audience and it's insult to the anchor. And having to see Mark Levin and turning off camera and being like, this fucking guy again?

1:16:08Why are we doing this? And they're going to be like, oh, the second floor told us to do it. Even if you're totally on board with, you know, killing every Muslim or whatever their program is, that still has got to drive you crazy. It's like an assault on your self-respect every single time. But what I found, and I'm sure you find the same, is that what I saw for them is they started to believe that proximity to power is power itself. And what I found really gross about that is they start to fetishize like the most ridiculous things, as in who gets the first rope line when you get to ask Trump a question.

1:16:42I mean, the amount of actual physical fighting that happens in that scrum, people would genuinely not believe. Really? Oh, yeah. I got hit in the head once actually with an elbow from a photographer for taking his spot even though there's no unassigned spots. Again, these are minutiae, but what I'm saying is it's a level of psychosis that takes over because everything – In the White House press corps. In the White House press corps. Everything is about access to the president, and so everybody is jockeying in a zero-sum environment where everyone is trying to get the interview or going to schmooze this person or that person.

1:17:14But the problem with that is they turn from practitioner to starting to believe that they themselves are important and this vital conduit of information. And what you turn into is basically an apparatchik of the state environment that I'm talking about. And so for many of the anchors and others, they live for the black tie war at White House Correspondents' Dinner or getting invited to a cocktail party or a book party. I mean this is the currency of Washington and of New York. It has been for decades, but you start to live, you know, you start to fill that emptiness inside of you with the knowledge that you get to FaceTime with a sub cabinet appointee at a dinner and you can use that information because Senator Schumer knows your name.

1:17:54These are all very important things for the social capital. And this is pathetic. I want people to know this is pathetic. And I watch people live their entire lives on Capitol Hill and the White House press corps in television and other for all of these like imperial level events that are put on to just make them feel special and continue on in the machine. And I actually didn't realize how radical it was for people like you or people like me to say I actually don't care about that at all. I don't care if I ever go to another cocktail party or another black tie dinner or any of these things simply to be in the presence of people who are actually powerful.

1:18:30I would rather just critique them and say what I actually think. And the irony, of course, is as you have found out, when you say what you actually think and you are critical of them in an honest way, they take you so much more seriously. They laugh at you when you're one of those people who cares about cocktail parties or any of that. You're one of the most useful cogs in the machine. It's the people they can't control are the people who they call because they're the inconvenient voices. So that was – it's interesting you said that because that was my next question. So the whole process of covering the White House, being in the White House press corps, going to the briefings and the gaggle and all that, going to the parties, are you actually getting information?

1:19:06No, I've never gotten more information than what I do right now. I actually – during the 12-day war, I literally never got more information from inside of the entire apparatus than I ever did when I was covering the White House. And it was because I was so critical of the Trump administration, of the direction that they were taking. And many of the people who I spoke to, for the record, actually were almost none who I knew personally. Almost all simply saw my commentary and agreed with me and wanted a conduit for information to be able to get out of there. And that's a great lesson, by the way, for any white aspiring journalists or others who listen is they will take you much more seriously if you hit them in the face.

1:19:47And hitting them in the face makes them kind of shocked because it's so counter to the way that the machine works. When you work in the machine, they can call your editor. They can call your boss. They can call your advertiser. They can put a significant amount of pressure on you. But when they can't control you, they start to freak out. And that is one of the most useful lessons of my life, actually, in terms of coverage and in terms of journalism and the ability to speak out. Speaking out can get you – is unfortunately such a differentiator from where the entire traditional system really starts to work.

1:20:19What's the downside? Well, the downside is a freezing out of the entire social movement of professional Washington is that professional Washington protects its own. It effectively is a jobs network for each other so that people who are in and out of government always have reliable sources of income. Implicit within that is that, hey, this is what we think about Israel. This is what we think about X, Y of taxes. These are – this is what we think about the carried interest loophole. We don't talk about that. The step-up basis. This is what we think about cutting Social Security. This is an accepted fact.

1:20:52We need to accept this, that it's acceptable to kick elderly people off Social Security or Medicare or food stamps. And we just take this information, and in exchange for that information, we get a job for the rest of our lives. If I hadn't gone independent, I could have easily relied on working in Washington until the age of 65 within the machine. That would have been actually very doable. And this was the risk, actually, saying what you actually want to say. That is the riskiest thing you can do within the system. And in exchange, you will no longer get invited to these dinners or any of these other things.

1:21:23You have to be okay with that. You have to be okay, I think, with something that you have found as well, by being denounced by people who you knew personally. Oh, I know. Or people who, you know, who you would help in their career. Oh, yeah. People who you, you know, in many ways, you're like, I would personally never do that to you. I can't really believe that you're doing it to me. Oh, I know. And the reason you're doing it is, we all know what it is, is you're being controlled by a broader and a bigger either financial or foreign lobby interest. I've had this experience. And this is the red line for you?

1:21:51Well, you call people and you're like, I can't believe you said that about me, calling me a bigot or whatever when you know that I'm not. And I don't even go on the internet anymore. So I have no idea what people are saying. But several years ago when all this began, I remember calling a couple people and one person, I said, well, let's have lunch. No. Wow. No. Okay. So when you went independent, you've been in D.C. because you got there for college. You've been there for 10 years. You know a lot of people. Right. Got there at 18, right? Yes, 18 years old. Started when independent at 28. So you know a ton of people.

1:22:29You're a social person, I happen to know. So you are going to tons of events, and you have tons of friends, and all of a sudden you're going off in a direction. You're not spewing hate or bigotry at all, but you are saying things that other people are not saying. How intensely did people you know try to bring you back? Yeah, almost immediately. There were a lot of warnings about, hey, this is dangerous. Oh, really? Well, my close friends knew that they supported me, but it was really like the professional friends, people who you're broadly acquainted with are like, what's he up to? What's his deal?

1:23:02What's happening here? And it's incredible how rapid that shrink can happen in terms of not being invited to these things anymore or, you know, just being as a social outcast or your phone stops ringing to various different things. Did you feel that right away? Almost, I wouldn't say immediately, but it did happen like quite rapidly. A six month, maybe a one year period. Israel was actually the final straw in particular after October 7th. That was almost an immediate cutoff from the entire professional network. Why? What did you say? Well, I said that I think that the way that Israel was conducting itself in Gaza was not befitting of a civilized Western nation and that the United States didn't have a compelling interest in what was going on there and that we should just focus on ourselves.

1:23:44I said all the same things about Ukraine and many of them agreed with me then. Apparently that was the red line, you know, for them. But - What kind of reaction did you get? Well, I mean, a lot of it is, you know, calling people in my social circle, asking why I'm so anti-Semitic now. Why - Actually? Yes, yeah. No, that actually happened. And a lot of it is also just generally a freeze of communication or discomfort, you know, being in presence. And I think people should hear about this because what I just described, that social capital, when that's everything, this is how those norms are enforced within the system, even if you've never received any money from any of these people, which, of course, most of them have.

1:24:21And so you put all of that together and you really watch this like professional nexus and others where you're just almost immediately rejected from like the inner sanctums of the imperium. But, I mean, something that traces back to, like, wanting to go independent was this knowledge that outside of the Imperium are all of these other rising, you know, almost revolutionary forces of the Joe Rogan podcast, Dave Smith, Daryl Cooper, Andrew Schultz, Theo Vaughn, all of these individuals. By the way, many of the comedians I listed don't even consider themselves political, but it's because they're not connected to the system that they're able to say and observe truths.

1:24:58Nobody in professional comedy or Hollywood-connected comedy or any of these other – would ever dare be able to even give a voice to these types of ideas. And so I chose the latter over the former. What did you think of the – so I know all the people you just mentioned. I think so much of every one of those people. I'd add Tim Dillon to that list. Yeah, of course, Tim. Wonderful person. But now I'm being bitchy. I can't control myself. The quality of the people. So you get expelled from, you leave, but you're also shunned by your former world. You enter this new world that includes all the people you just listed.

1:25:34How would you compare the quality of the people? It's night and day difference. And if we disagree, they just don't care. There's no professional freeze out. There's not as many hard feelings. You could look right in Dave Smith's face and say, the things you just said that you believe so deeply I think are stupid. And he'd still go to dinner with you. Of course he would. I disagree with Dave on a lot, mostly on economics. I don't think he cares at all. We talk all the time. Yeah, and that's a really important point, right? Oh, exactly. The verboten issues and the enforcement of all of that is part of why a lot of these people have found the tremendous amount of success that they have.

1:26:10And that is what still gives me some hope about where we are. I totally agree that there, you know, I believe in God and I do think that there's like an upside, you know, you go through suffering, but there's always like a redemptive quality to it. And in this specific case, like you find the new people, you know, you do lose friends. Have you lost friends? Yes, unfortunately, yes. Me too. And I still am sad about it. But, boy, the people you meet are like the most honest, interesting, decent. Like the quality, I'm sorry to reduce it to this, but the quality of the marriages among the people, you know, who are telling the truth versus the quality of the people who are paid to lie or who are too afraid to tell the truth.

1:26:51Boy, they just have just happier people. Yes. Better people. Of course. Well, I mean, what kind of person who has small children at home would want to leave them for four out of five nights a week to attend book party events at Black Dottestito? That's exactly right. I mean, and to drink five or six nights a week. I mean, this is literally the life that a lot of these people live. And if you're a cog in a machine and you're like having Mark Levin on night after night, even though everyone knows it's like absurd, how can your wife respect you? I don't know. Oh, yeah. Or getting up at 3.30 a.m. in the morning, I'm sure used to in the morning show gig, and having to read from the prepared packet for yourself.

1:27:25You know, good luck, honey. I hope the kids are okay in the morning. And then, you know, reducing your life to all of that for what purpose? No, it's totally right. And that, you know, and these are mechanical, but they're macro and important issues. Nicely put. Yeah. So I want to ask you about the politics of all this because I feel like, so it is, what's the date? Monday, July 7. but things are moving so fast that, you know, who knows where we'll be when this airs, which I hope is soon. But as of this morning, Elon Musk is out there using the cover-up that Pam Bondi is so clearly engaged in to disgraceful, disgraceful cover-up.

1:28:03And I like Pam Bondi personally, but I'm ashamed as an American to see what they're doing. He's using that to say, hey, we need a new political party. Like everyone's involved in the Epstein cover-up, which is true. We need an America party and I'm running it. Where does this, is he serious? Where does this go? Filed it with the FEC. I would give some caution to Elon. Tucker, you and I have seen a lot of rich people come and go in Washington. Yes. Consultants see you coming from a mile away, Mr. Fiscally Conservative, socially liberal. I'm just going to put that out there. The Bipartisan Policy Center and all these other people, they've rolled up that entire market.

1:28:42They have plenty to sell you. PowerPoints about ranked choice voting and a few other things and all that. So for all of them, I wish you the best of luck because you're all about to get filthy rich off of you. OK, can you explain a little bit? So I'm from D.C., so I know what you're talking about. But for people who aren't, what exactly are you saying? Well, I'm saying that there is a long fetishized idea of an American third party, which is fiscally conservative, which is socially liberal, which is moderate on immigration and which is very comfortable with oligarchy. and that those forces are extremely well-funded and they have a lot of research which could back up whatever your proclivities are and they will happily sell it to you for 10 times market price and sit with presentations to convince you that this is a great idea.

1:29:27And actually, I mean, the irony is if Elon's politics were more reversed in this sense, I actually think it would be onto something. So my belief is that both of the parties actually do have not answers directly, but directionally to the fundamental problems of our age. Immigration, and I think the Republican Party, obviously, is solid or has come a long way on the issue of at least the base, let's say that. The voters. Yeah, the voters on the issue of immigration from the Gang of Eight Party and rebellion to where we are today. And immigration, I still believe, is one of the most central and important issues of our time.

1:29:59But let's put the other side. And we can take this one big, beautiful bill as an example. We increased the defense budget by$150 billion. Now, I will not get into the actual specific Medicaid cuts, but I think it's everything in Washington is about priority. So we extended the tax cuts from the tax cuts and jobs act of 2017. The vast majority of that benefit largely accrues to people who are already rich. Most of that in particular accrues either to the high W-2 income earner. I saw somebody point out correctly that most of those people are Democrats, so it's a little bit ironic if you're just thinking purely in terms of politics.

1:30:36We didn't have any interest in closing the carried interest loophole. We didn't have any interest in looking at the step-up basis, at looking at financialization. There's so many areas, tens of – hundreds of billions of dollars ripe for the taking without having to touch a single benefit to an American citizen. And instead, we started and instead rewrote the way that Medicaid and food stamp programs are going to work, which could potentially impact tens of millions of Americans. Now, again, I think there's legitimate criticisms around work requirements and welfare and all that. I don't necessarily criticize that as opposed to this fetishization that I saw from GOP congressmen who were like, yeah, it's good that people are going to lose their health care.

1:31:14And I said, look, whether these people are working or not, it's not good that anybody loses health care. And so that's what I mean about where if Elon's politics were flipped, I think the Democrats, at least rhetorically, do have correct focus on issues like health care and around or at the very least the way that our economy is structured. Now, they may not mean it. I don't think they mean it in practice, but at least rhetorically. So if you were to marry those three issues about immigration restriction, about focus on quality of life, cost of living, health care, and also just broadly about restructuring our economy for productive purposes that distributes not through socialism but through a well-ordered and a well-regulated capitalism that distributes the benefit across all sectors of our society.

1:31:57Now that's an America party I could get on board with. I totally agree. But there's no funding for that, right? No, if someone got up and said, I'd like an economy where you don't have to hire an illegal alien to raise your kids, your wife can stay home and raise your kids if she wants to. And most women do want to for the period when they're little. I mean, most women want that. And every survey shows that. So if you were to say that, in other words, if you were to respond to the desire of the majority, you'd probably be shot to death. You can't say that. Like, it's better to raise your kids than to work in a bank.

1:32:27Right. Oh, right wing extremism. You know, let's just seal the borders till we figure out who's here and restore meaning to citizenship. What racist? Maybe we should stop giving billions in aid to the, you know, stop trying to run the world when we're not good at it at all and just preserve our fundamental national interests. Isolationist, Nazi, anti-Semite. It's like. Or in socialist when we talk about health care. Or any of those other issues. Yeah, I mean, I do feel like there's a huge opportunity for someone who would talk like that. That's a real America party. I mean, at its best, the 2016 Donald Trump campaign was what I just talked about.

1:33:07I did not recognize it at the time. I was telling you yesterday, that election night broke every political conception and idea. Oh, man. Which is the best thing that ever happened to me because it allowed me to free my mind to read all of these other people who I had never considered, who I was told were illegitimate within professional Washington. And what came to the conclusion is that professional Washington is illegitimate and has no idea what allegedly its own voters want. Why did so few people do – I had the same experience, which it was hard for me because I've been there for so long. But it was so liberating, and I'm grateful for it, and I'm grateful to Trump for that.

1:33:39But why did so few people do that? Because asking those questions, yes, that is not – asking those questions and coming to what I think are the right conclusions about our economy and about this restructuring of our entire political base. I mean the way that voting patterns over the last decade have changed is unbelievable. And when you actually answer a lot of those questions, you come to them that are very inconvenient for the empire. The empire currently runs on cheap labor, which is immigration-related. It runs on war abroad, military-industrial complex if you want to call it, but all of these foreign entanglements and pushing billions of dollars to policing the ends of the earth, something that – I always want to come to – the architects of the American empire, General Eisenhower and General Marshall, General Eisenhower in particular said it would be a failure if American legions acted as Roman that were deployed to the vast ends of the earth policing it.

1:34:33His vision for the American empire was to set up well-ordered states in Europe and to then let them handle it from that point forward. General Marshall and others, I mean, yes, they had the Marshall Plan, but the idea was about creating self-sufficiency that could allow America that could return to where things were broadly in more than 1940s environment. But more what I'm saying is that if you look at all of that and you start to speak against it, and these are what the voters want, you start to come up against the most powerful interests in the world. Health care is 20 percent of our GDP. We have the worst health outcomes in the developed world.

1:35:04That's insane. Why? You know, it's not because our health care system is not working all that well. It comes down to immigration. We talked about cheap labor with war. That's foreign governments. It's the ideology of the imperium, which is all about basically transnational loyalty as opposed to loyalty to your own citizenship and really to your own country. and then broadly about oligarchy and because when we look at the way, how do you become rich in America today? A few years ago, I went to the Forbes billionaire list and I just restricted the list to the number of new billionaires that were added to that list.

1:35:40The vast majority of those new billionaires in America were people who worked in hedge funds and in finance. And this is why in some ways the left is wrong. They often criticize, they'll often criticize like, let's take Elon as an example and Elon is a complicated figure, But, you know, look, I have a Tesla. I encourage everybody to get in one at least once because it's like getting an iPhone 4 for the first time. It will change your entire conception of what a car is. Now, if people were getting rich creating an American car company, I would be ecstatic. But that's not what they're getting rich from.

1:36:11They're getting rich from extractive, addictive capitalism. Let's say in finance, right? Basically creating, you know, unproductive trading systems, which are only enriching themselves and then rigging our tax code so they pay lower taxes than small business owners, maybe like you or I or the average person on the street who gets taxed at a higher rate for his labor. Let's take other examples like the more – all the companies and so-called great companies coming necessarily out of Silicon Valley. The vast majority of that money, as Peter Thiel famously said, we're promised flying cars all we got were 140 characters.

1:36:44There is something deeply true about that, about the experience of the technology industry has largely been about extractive capitalism and addiction on our phones and about industries that rely on that as opposed to products that make our lives better and make – Boy, they lecture you about that. I have friends in the tech business who I really like, who I consider so smart and interesting. And I guess we all get preachy about what we're doing with our lives. I mean, I get preachy about, journalists, we're here to tell the truth. So I'm trying not to be too judgmental. On the other hand, I don't see technology over the past 80 years.

1:37:22Oh, what about antibiotics and the polio vaccine? Okay, great. Right. But in general, net net, as we say in the douchebag industry, I don't see it as a net plus at all. I don't see it as enslavement and a total disaster. But you're not. But they're like, what? Technology is making our lives better. Really? Tell me how. Yeah. I mean, let's say I know you want to talk about sports gambling. It's the perfect example. Right. So it's something that's been enabled by the phone and has led, in my opinion, to what is the next opioid epidemic that we will see in the next 10 years. So in 2018, literally just 2018, the Supreme Court reversed or ruled a decision that restricted sports gambling to the state of Nevada.

1:38:04New Jersey immediately – Chris Christie, by the way, is the person who brought this lawsuit, which legalizes sports gambling. Eventually – Chris Christie's on the side of sports gambling. Of course. He was the person who brought the suit. Well, what happens from that point forward? He is the lowest ever. Well, you and I are sitting here today in a country where 40 states plus the District of Columbia, sports gambling is legal. You have these sports gambling companies, FanDuel and DraftKings, which basically have legal monopolies from the states, from the gaming commissions of these states, where they are allowed to operate.

1:38:33And it's not a free market because of the licensure and the way that it works. Yes. Not everybody can just become a gambler. I want to talk about this, I should say, because I'm totally ignorant of this subject, but I keep hearing from young people who I'm related to or who work for me about people getting in trouble with sports gambling. Yes. And so how did this all happen? So in the span of what? It's been seven years since that happened. 40 states are now legal. I just looked it up this morning. Several hundred billion dollars were gambled by Americans in 2024. A hundred billion? A hundred billion dollars were gambled in 2024.

1:39:04The gambling revenue was some$14 billion, just the revenue they were able to extract. That is larger than the motion picture industry, the box office industry in the United States of America. The vast majority of that revenue, a study that came out shows, comes from only 3 % of gamblers, 3%. And the reason why is that gambling addicts make up almost 50 % of the revenue. 3 % make up 50 % because they literally cannot put it down. And what makes this story even crazier is that FanDuel DraftKings have the legal right in the way that they run their business. Where, Tucker, if you and I were actually good at sports gambling, they would effectively ban us from the platform.

1:39:40They would no longer allow us to place bets larger than, let's say,$1.20. And the reason why is their algorithms are detectable for anybody who is actually gambling smart. And so they immediately will ban you from being able to bet any sizable portion of money. Meanwhile, for those gambling addicts, those 3%, they have an entire VIP host directed service where DraftKings and FanDuel shower these people in free gifts. They call them every single day. They basically operate on the phone to make sure that there's no track record because they're not supposed to do this. They're not supposed to enable gambling addicts according to the law.

1:40:14And what they do is they encourage them with free promotions or whatever to keep gambling their entire life savings. More recently, there was a man I talked about in my monologue on the subject who gambled away over a million, I think$1.4 million. He never made more than$200 ,000. His wife is suing DraftKings because he gambled away his children's life savings, college accounts, his Christmas gifts, everything. Everything that he owned. He never gambled before 2020, and he gambled away everything he owned by 2024. for. DraftKings used to call him every single day. They used to say, you know, what else you got?

1:40:45They violated their own policies according to the lawsuit, according to their lawsuit, the lawsuit brought by the wife. The income, if they tried to verify it, they would have seen that he was using all of these different assets, which are, you know, obviously not from a W-2 income, which is apparently violated their policy. They would have seen, as they admit in many cases, he was a gambling addict, and they didn't care. They allowed him to basically gamble away his life savings and not only enabled it, but encouraged it. So you know what I'm thinking as you're telling me this amazing story? What I'm really afraid of is Sharia law.

1:41:16They hate us for our freedoms, dogger. They hate us for our freedoms. Sharia is the threat. Maybe they had something going on gambling. And but my point is so dark. This is on this is on your phone. This is on my phone. This is on everybody's phone. It's on almost every young man's phone in America. It's part of the social fabric right now of male culture in the United States. And all of it, and I didn't even get to the craziest part, which is that the bets that they're making are these things called single game parlay bets, which are basically multi-contingent bets about four or five different things happening because the odds payout is much higher.

1:41:48You will lose with such regularity. Like in the state of Illinois, 60 % of all bets were that type of bet. Can you give me an example? My ignorance is astounding on this subject. So I'm not very well versed in sports, but let's say we're watching a football game. We would say that this person is going to rush more than 200 yards. The quarterback will score two touchdowns. And at the end of the second half, the Packers will be up by seven. So you would bet that. And so your payout on a$5 bet could be$1 ,000. And that's why it's very attractive. But what people don't understand is that it's priced that way, that$5 for 1 ,000, because you're almost certainly not going to hit it.

1:42:24And that's the vast, vast majority of the bets that Americans are making today because it's fun. But my point around the fun is that the gambling addicts are the only people who enable your fun. And if you're actually any good at this, you'll get banned. It's a totally unfair marketplace. How can they ban – well, that's totally – and Vegas is the same way, by the way. Vegas is the same way of how they back off people who are good at card counting. That's where the custom – what was legacy granted into the sports gambling houses comes from. Regulators don't care about any of this and legislators.

1:42:55Why? Because they're getting filthy rich revenues off of this from the state. But my contention is if you look at the social cost of every single state where sports gambling has been legalized, we've seen an increase in bankruptcy, particularly young men. We've seen a rise in domestic violence, intimate partner violence, largely when bets lose. So a man's bet will lose and he'll take it out on his wife or the kids that are in the house. It's horrible. We've seen an actually statistically significant rise almost directly as a result of sports gambling. we are watching the social costs of our brother our cousin or whatever go bankrupt or lose hundreds of dollars get normalized into this environment of uh taking like insane risks which you don't even really understand it's getting enmeshed if you go to any bar in america during a sports game you'll find somebody there with their phone and if you're talking to them they've got money on every play of the game they'll be like oh i had twenty dollars that he would you know, throw a touchdown in the very first quarter.

1:43:53Soon they're rolling out products, which make it so that you can bet like every single play of the game. And they're doing it live. So you can do it there all on your phone. I mean, that's basically, to me, that's an emblem of where we have become, what we have become as a country. We use a smartphone as an addictive platform to enable one of the worst vices that we've always recognized in American history. And my solution is simple as, Okay, it's not fair that Nevada had sports gambling. Let's just make it in person. We have to introduce friction into the system. We do that for alcohol. We do that for cigarettes.

1:44:25By the way, cigarette companies are not allowed to sponsor and spend billions of dollars in advertising at the Super Bowl and pair up with professional sports betting leagues. You know, I've spoken with professional athletes, NFL athletes, who told me they have faced harassment from people who lost bets because of them. They'll be like, hey, the kicker, you idiot. You didn't make that. And I had$1 ,000, you know, on something. It's ruining the game. The gambling companies in the leagues are coming together. Tens of millions of Americans are borderline addicted right now. Hundreds of millions are actually making bets.

1:44:58And all of this is just like a sleeping social revolution in the country. where parlay betting and the lingo that used to be known to, you know, the most degenerate guy who lives in Vegas is now common parlance, you know, in American culture. And people call you nanny state or any of that. I just said I don't even oppose necessarily the ability to sports gamble. I just think we should treat it like any other vice and make it so that you have to gamble in person. Why not just say it's disgusting? I think it is disgusting. And it's predatory. And by the way, they're praying, as the crypto people do, sorry, on the frustration and sadness of young men who know they're never going to be able to afford a wife, kids, and a house.

1:45:37Exactly. And they sell you the dream. All the advertisements are, you can get rich with your knowledge. And as I just said, if you actually do get rich, they'll just ban you. Or if you have the potential to. Business wasn't always this sleazy in the United States. They were self-restraints. I mean, I've never been that into business or never participated in business, actually, in my whole life. So what do I know? But I have been here a while, and I remember people had, like there was a feeling, well, that's just wrong. We're not going to do that. Taking advantage of people was bad. Especially poor people.

1:46:07Like payday loan was a really sleazy business. Charging 30 % interest on a credit card. I mean, your neighbors would judge you. Yeah, and they should. But that's the problem with the collapse of social trust is that there's not a lot of policing. Totally amoral predators took control of our society at every level. That's exactly right. And now the government is in league with them. It'll be legal in almost all 50 states, probably by the end of the decade. And all of this will lead to mass bankruptcy, like I said, all the social attendant costs of this. But I think more importantly, it shows when you have that collapse of social enforcement within your society, you can just see how – I'm talking about a seven-year period.

1:46:46This is not long ago that this was even not a thing, that we went to bigger than the motion picture industry. And you and I are talking before football season. All forecasts say that DraftKings and FanDuel will make more money this year than they have ever made before. And 2024 to 2023 was already a 23 % rise. Why are people paying their gambling debts? Yeah, that's a great question. Why are people paying their credit card bills? I don't understand. I mean, it's like so one-sided. It's like you're a college student and you get credit card offers, free credit cards, and you get lured into something like this.

1:47:18You get destroyed by it, but you still have to pay your debts. Yes. So it's all upside for them. And then people wag their finger in your face. They're like, oh, are you a communist? Am I a communist? No, no, I'm not. If you say like, why would you pay your debts? Why would you ever pay off? It is. And they're the ones who should be ashamed. Not just ashamed. Our legislators should do something about it. I really do want to start a political party. Don't pay your credit card bill. Do not pay your gambling debts. I really do. It'd be a general strike against, or student loan, honestly. But what they do, and it's the same people, they take the frustration, the people who are benefiting from DraftKings and Citibank, they take the frustration that people feel, the stupid new mayor of New York, and they move it into race hate.

1:48:09They basically take that momentum and they shift it into a safe direction. Like just hate each other on the basis of the way you look. Yes, of course. And that's very safe for their backers. But I'm just waiting for the guy who's like, no, no, no. The real criminals are the ones who are loaning you money at 30 % interest or getting you to go bankrupt on a sports gambling app. Like, those are the villains. Why don't we go after them? I agree. I've been waiting. Will you run for president on the don't pay your credit card bill and I will send you money? Well, I've been waiting for somebody. I talked with a guy who's an expert on the history of political parties.

1:48:44And he said, you know, one of the most popular issues that I think that would resonate is banning people, employers, who schedule closing shift and opening shift. It's called clopening, right? Like people who have to work until midnight and wake up at 6 a.m. A lot of these are the most precarious people in our economy who are basically screwed around with by their employers getting paid minimum wage and feel the deep frustration of no power in their lives from financial institutions to their employers. He's like, I genuinely think just an issue like that would resonate so deeply. And then I started thinking, I go, why?

1:49:17Is that not even a thing? And I go, oh, well, it's because most people in Washington don't even know about the term that I just used. Of course. And it's about the everyday life of somebody who is worried about being able to buy a house. I mean, let's even put buying a house out of that. That's the American dream. I'm talking about just making rent. I'm talking about being able to fill up your car. I mean, a large percentage of this country is a blown tire away from bankruptcy. Oh, I know. A literal blown tire away from complete bankruptcy. Economic precarity to a level which is shameful, you know, whenever we have the richest country in human history.

1:49:53And, you know, you talked about Zoran. And what I really appreciated is, look, we don't like Zoran. I'm not pro-Zoran. I get it. But when he says, hey, I'm just worried about the rent and I don't care about Israel because I'm going to stay here in New York. I loved it. I loved it too. That's all we need. That's what all people really want. I remember when Trump first term withdrew from Paris and he said, I was elected to be the president of Pittsburgh, not Paris. And I was like, wow. So that's the problem with this Epstein thing. The problem with the DOJ decision yesterday to cover up the crimes of Epstein, which they are doing, is that it leaves people at the very end of their electoral options.

1:50:34It's like I voted for this guy, and I'll speak for myself, I voted for this guy precisely because I'm really distressed. I want justice. I want honesty. I think secrecy abets evil. I want someone to focus on my country. Like all the basic things. And I think Trump wants all those things too. But if you when you allow something like this to happen, people are like, you know what? The system itself is beyond reform. There's no reasonable step I can take to improve this country or my own life. I have to do something crazy. Yes. Like you're creating true radicalism when you do stuff like this, because what's the option?

1:51:07Well, that's why, in a way, I want to hold a lot of these leaders to a higher standard is because if you're elected on that message and you betray that message, in my opinion, you're more culpable than, let's say, the idiots like George W. Bush and others who really believed it. They believed – they destroyed our country. I agree. But at the very least, they didn't lie to us as much about wanting to address the very problems that they created. But when you have people like Obama, Biden, and Trump who are elected right now on the backs of fixing the most catastrophic presidency probably in American history, George W.

1:51:43Bush, but then to return to many – or in many cases even go further and not actually address those, I think you're very culpable in that. And you reap what you sow. I mean you said you're not a radical. I'm similar in disposition. Like I don't want to see mass violence or any of these other – Well, you're a married father. You're like, I am too. It's totally vested in the future of the country. Exactly. I don't want that to happen. No. But as an analyst or as somebody familiar with history, somebody who has an audience and can pick up on social trends, people are mad as hell right now. They are angry.

1:52:17Too mad. Angry. Too mad. No, I agree. I'm legit. That Epstein thing, it's not even about Epstein. I can live, I think I know what the Epstein thing was. Everybody knows what it was. I think YouPorn is the same thing. They're collecting information to blackmail people on YouPorn. Do you think a foreign government doesn't have access to the back end of YouPorn? I think they do. And so I get it. I understand. Everyone knows what's up. But to insult the population by saying, no, you're a conspiracy theorist. It's like, I think you're really playing with fire when you do that. Especially when you said the conspiracy and then now reverted to the line.

1:53:00It's too much. That is too much. Do you know? I mean, can you call Pam Bondi and say, I think Pam Bondi's under a ton of pressure. Again, I've always liked Pam Bondi. I know her. I think she's under enormous pressure. You know, I don't know how good she is under pressure. Trying to be nice. But I don't think that she's like a sinister person who is, you know, doing the work of Leon Black and Ehud Barak on purpose, really. But I wonder if they know this is a real thing here. They have to know. And the reason why I think they have to know is that the breadcrumbs that got us to this moment have already been sprinkled.

1:53:36Kash Patel testified and said it was suicide. Went on the Joe Rogan podcast and said, if I had that information, don't you think I would tell you? He killed himself. I mean, that was – basically, this was an enshrinement of many of the things that they had already put out there. And the criticism and really the outrage over each of those individual comments, let's say the so-called Epstein files released with many of the influencers, there was outrage at every step. So they're not stupid. But how can you say that thousands of children were raped, but I'm not going to find out who raped them? Yeah.

1:54:07How can you say that? I agree. I agree completely. They said that. By the way, when Pam Bondi went on television and said, I have a videotape of kids getting abused. I follow this case closely, and I know a lot of the people involved, as I've told you. I had no idea. I didn't know that. Really? Thousands of children got raped? Who raped them? Where are the rapists? Like, why aren't they in jail? This is the Department of Justice. Yes. That is so crazy. This is honestly one of the craziest things I've ever seen in my entire life. And I just think it's very dangerous to play around with this stuff.

1:54:42Like very dangerous. I don't want a revolution. But if you wanted a revolution, this is how you would act. Yes. Yeah, it is. Because, I mean, I gave Versailles an example. When you pick the court over and over again and the people start to wake up to that, bad things can happen. And this is something that I find really disgusting about American elites is that for a long time, the American republic and the elite system has been one that can actually cycle at least some of the wants and the needs of the American voter to basically placate it and keep it from going down the path of fascism and or socialism.

1:55:14But when you continue to just double down on the imperium and on what fuels the empire itself and you would keep ignoring all of these things. I mean, I do think this bill is an important part of that. Like we're increasing defense spending. The empire is not even good at what's supposed to be doing. It's causing chaos abroad. The military industrial complex is not even good at creating weapons or ammunition. The global financial system has been revealed as a complete ruse. We sanctioned Russia to death. Remember, we said that they will never rise. Their economy grew and they were able to increase.

1:55:45I tried to tell that story and I went to the Soviet or Soviet Russian grocery store to, not because I want to live in Russia, though it's really nice, but to point out that like everything you said was going to happen, didn't happen. Yeah, they're doing fine. And what's the lesson in that? Is that, you know, the ability to produce the goods that you need, the ability to produce the energy, and to at least have a few allies who also reject the Western global financial system is all you need now to stand against the American empire. I think that was actually one of the most important things that has ever happened because we threw it all at Russia over the most insignificant conflict involving the United States.

1:56:21And what has China been doing now for the last five years? Just studying – since Ukraine, they have been studying this. And we did it because a small group of foreign policy and government officials deeply care about Ukraine. They really care about Ukraine. Okay, that's great. I deeply care about Sweden. You maybe deeply care about India. Yeah. But you're not driving our foreign policy. You know, they care about Ukraine for whatever reason. But they're imposing that on a country of 350 million people. Like, are you joking? You can't do that. It humiliated us really in the eyes of most of our adversaries.

1:56:56Oh, I'm aware. Because the day that Russia can increase its GDP and can increase its ammunition more than all of NATO while subject to the most devastating sanctions supposedly in the history of the United States, that shows that it's all fake. And then that's Russia. Oh, I agree. Which is much smaller and less much of a threat to the United States, let's say, than any other country in the world. And all those other countries are studying this with a fine-tooth comb to sanction-proof themselves. So when the time comes that we're really affected, and this affects me and you and my kid or your kids, that, we're going to have a real problem.

1:57:30I couldn't agree more. And to spend a trillion dollars on something that's not working, I mean, I guess of all the money you could spend spending in the military, decent people in the military, some really good people in the military. Well, if it actually went to them, that'd be fine, but it's not, as you and I know. I read the other day this analysis from someone I know who's really smart, and the question was, will the United States use nuclear bunker busters in Iran? Okay, so that would, for many reasons, be, you know, the first time nuclear weapons have been used in 80 years, kind of a big deal.

1:57:59So, I don't think anyone wants that particular Rubicon to be crossed. So, I was like, wow, I wonder if that's going to happen. So, I call around, and the answer I got, which I think is true, we don't have any nuclear bunker busters. and because we're not good at building anything, we're not going to have them for quite some time. Now, I haven't verified that, but I got that. I mean, I think that's true. That's insane. Now, I don't want to use nuclear bunker busters at all. And apparently it was George W. Bush who said we shouldn't. So there's a rare win for the Bush team. Thank you, George W. Bush.

1:58:33But if that's true, you spend a trillion dollars and you don't even have a nuclear bunker buster? I mean, that's the least of our problems. We don't have basic ammunition. No, I'm aware. It's like the level of dysfunction is so overwhelming that, and that's the military, which you got to assume is more functional than, say, the Department of Transportation or Energy or Commerce or Interior. It's like got to be one of the most functional departments. At least they actually pass a marksmanship test occasionally. Yeah. Then things are really in disarray and we actually need reform. Yes, like immediate reform, because, I mean, I just think, I don't know, I've almost come to the conclusion.

1:59:09It's like we're either going to have to hit a financial crisis or a war. That's really the only time anything changes. I think people feel that. So where do things go politically? A lot of that depends on Donald Trump and how he handles his meeting with Prime Minister Netanyahu and the next coming years. And this is why I was so concerned about Iran, and I think you were too. And also why the people crowing victory, in my opinion, will look stupid. And I listened to your entire interview with the president of Iran. It's a very important interview. at the very least because whether he means it or not, he's trying to telegraph for peace.

1:59:43And not only trying to telegraph for peace, naming Israel as the prime provocateur, wanting better relations here with the United States of America, but also concerned about the fact that at least according to our president, diplomacy was at least used in some way, either afterwards taking credit for, or at least the perspective was given, it was used as a ruse, which will undermine our ability to future negotiate. Let's say you are Iran, which in my opinion, what I took away from this is despite all of the – they're genocidal terrorists who want to kill us all. They acted highly rationally. They only struck Israel.

2:00:16They fired 14 bases at the US – 14 missiles at the US base. They gave us preemptive notice. They immediately then called it off, willing to sign a ceasefire. He seemed at the very least his ability to telegraph rationality in his interview with you. What I take away from that then is rationally, if you are the country of Iran and you look at the history now and the context in which this has now happened, I don't see how 30 years from now we either don't have an actual nuclear-armed Iran or regime change because every single time – let's even look at Israel's operations. In 1981, I'm sure you remember, Israel took out Iraq's nuclear program or at least severely damaged it.

2:00:57A reactor, yes. A reactor. Now, that was sold as – it was a one-time operation. By the way, do you remember that the Reagan administration denounced it and that we actually paused shipments, I believe, of F-14s to the country? Why? Because we saw it as an outrageous move, which was destabilizing relations. Ronald Reagan, everybody, not some known anti-Semite, but of course we're not allowed to know our history. The point, though, is that that preemptive strike in 1981, did it stop the United States from invading Iraq in 2003 for an operation and regime change sold on the lie of WMD? The point is, is that it actually hardened Saddam's resolve to at least create the impression of having nuclear weapons and for a time actually amassing other so-called weapons of mass destruction.

2:01:41It hardened the want of Syria in 2007 when they did something similar. If you look at the history here now of the so-called preemptive strike from Israel known as the Begin Doctrine around nuclear weapons in the Middle East, every time there's a strike, eventually it leads to regime change. So Iraq, regime change. Syria, regime change. With Libya, of course, they had all kinds of stuff going on with the Libyan program. Gaddafi did the smart thing at what he thought at the time, gave up his nuclear weapons. And what happened to him? He was, you know, literally sodomized on camera. It was, what, eight years later by the United States of America.

2:02:18So the history of that in the region should really – I mean you have to be very stupid not to look at every single one of those instances and say, yeah, I don't know about whether dealing with the United States or Israel here in this context is one that I can trust. In fact, I should probably just go get a nuclear weapon. Let's take the only member of the axis of evil today that has never been bombed by the United States of America, North Korea. I saw a book about Kim Jong-il behind you, and I've recently had this theory. I'm like, is Kim Jong-il one of the most vindicated men in history? He was seen as an insane person.

2:02:52Remember the movies and his liquor? Very well, yeah. His fundamental insight in 2002 was, no, we don't trust these people. We have to sprint to a nuke. We're getting the H-bomb. We're testing underground. We will establish a credible nuclear deterrent. He dies, and his son immediately pours all state resources into creating an ICBM and a credible nuclear threat to the United States of America capable of hitting the United States homeland. And he, in my opinion – my belief is Kim Jong-un will die of natural causes in his own bed because of that decision. That is the only way to assure that the United States will not mess with you.

2:03:31And now actually what Israel has created is a situation where the highly rational decision after your entire military infrastructure has been infiltrated by Mossad, you've walked with impunity, you've seen diplomacy used as a ruse. I don't see how we can't either go down the regime change path again and or have a nuclear Iran. Now, on top of this, of course, is Israeli action. Prime Minister Netanyahu, according to the Jerusalem Post, which is an Israeli media outlet, they write that Prime Minister Netanyahu, one of the chief things he wants to secure from President Trump is the ability to conduct preemptive strikes anytime he wants on the Iranian nuclear program, which of course we were told was destroyed.

2:04:13If it was destroyed, I'm not sure why we need more preemptive strikes. But he wants a rolling green light for the future to be able to go in and take any of the things out at the time, which of course would only harden the strategic resolve of that country if they wanted. It can't be done alone. Of course not, which they proved. They actually proved that to us when they said, we need you to come in and finish the job. And to protect our homeland from ballistic missiles raining down on our cities. So any Israeli, and by the way, I come at this, I feel like you have to say it because you don't want to be called a bigot again.

2:04:45But like, just in general, I approve of and certainly understand every country's obligation to act in its own interest, including defensively. So I'm not even contesting Israel's right to be worried about Iran. They probably should be. However, every strike by Israel on Iran, by definition, requires the involvement of the U.S. military. So we're getting signed up for an endless war with Iran. And at that point, it's like, no, this is my country. No. But like, I'm getting that. This is what I was saying about radicalism. This is the kind of thing that could make you radical, right? Yes, and it's bad for us.

2:05:28It's also bad for them. I mean, let's take the April operation. A lot of people forget this. Why did Iran in April of 2024 launch all those ballistic missiles at Israel? It's because Israel bombed an Iranian embassy in the middle of Syria. Now, according to them, it was an IRGC command center. Maybe. I would say there are CIA officers present in every U.S. embassy in the world. So I don't particularly want to open up that bag of worms. I think there's spies in literally every diplomatic mission, including in Washington, which probably crossed paths with many of those. I don't think those are legitimate targets, nor should they be.

2:06:03We shouldn't open that up. Well, it was because of that action that they knew would invite an Iranian response that Iran then launched those ballistic missiles against Israel. But who shot down all those missiles? They're allowed to bomb people's embassies? Yes, that's – well, according to them, as long as you designated a terrorist base by your own definition – I don't even know if the United States ever actually technically signed off on that analysis, you're able to do that. There have to be some limits, mutually agreed upon limits to behavior. You can't just shoot someone for pissing you off.

2:06:32Right. OK? You can't shoot up churches, including the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem, and you can't bomb embassies or else your embassies and your churches or your synagogues or your mosques or whatever, they're all fair game. And it would be – You want to live in that world. Right. It would be rightfully denounced as terrorism if that were done. There's got to be some limit. What's the limit? And even more big than that, what I said at the time was one of the reasons I didn't want us to defend Israel is I know that if they didn't think that the U.S. would come in and defend them, then they never would have done it in the first place.

2:07:00Of course. Is that it would have restricted their freedom of action and the freedom of action of the Iranians. And the most likely outcome between that was probably some sort of diplomatic solution if they were actually forced to deal with this problem on their own terms without the big brother United States or at the very least the big brother United States equally distributed to both parties in regards to trying to bring peace and balance to the region. But it's our unending and unquestioning support which enables Israeli belligerent action in the region, which then invites blowback both on them but also on us.

2:07:32I lived during the 12-day war with the United States government warning me about terrorist attacks in my homeland. That is like 2005 red terror levels. Remember flying back then? Very well. And that is a psychological toll on our population, which was literally being done for a foreign country and worrying about every U.S. citizen. There are millions of United States citizens who live abroad who were told that they had to be careful and going about their daily business in whatever country they happen to be in. Now, let's say that's in response to 9-11. Okay, we can justify that in terms of what the United States is doing after being attacked on our homeland.

2:08:09But for another, as you said, it's too much. It can lead to radicalization. I'm trying to resist that pull, and what I'm trying to do here on my show as well is to talk all about this in a rational way. That's why I talk about Switzerland and Chile, just to put it in context, who this country is and what we allegedly get out of it. Let's remove all of the veneer and the smears and everything else, and let's just talk in our own terms. And I have found that to be the enemy of the Ukraine discourse, of Israel discourse, of so much of the way that we orient ourselves. I mean, you know, I always think about the Munich Security Conference.

2:08:44What? Why? Why are we obsessed with the Munich Security Conference? difference. Asia is 50 percent of GDP in 2030. We should be going to the Singapore Security Conference. And that's the only one that actually should matter. But why do they all go to Munich? Oh, because they like Munich. They like Europe. They like going on vacation. A lot of them have studied there. They have this cultural affinity. I get it. I'm not saying that shouldn't matter at all. But, you know, our forward our forward looking leaders, even back in the 1930s and 40s, always had a very clear eyed view of the ability to balance what was actually in U.S.

2:09:15strategic interests. And I think we really lost that from the 1990s unipolar moment onwards. And I'm watching it happen again. So, you know, you asked me where this thing goes. It's all basically, it's on Trump and his relationship with Bibi. I think, I actually think he's gambling his entire presidency on all of that right now. Yeah. And, you know, I have no idea what's going to happen. I believe they're meeting as we're speaking. I know them both. And I, you know, but I don't know. But I've got to say of all the kind of filthy disasters in the world, the one that I would want to stay away from with the most enthusiasm is Gaza.

2:09:55Yeah. So how is it that it's America's responsibility to unfuck Gaza? Yes. And that was the plan from day one. And what's happened in Gaza is not defensible. It's too much. I mean, Harat said 17 ,000 children have been killed in Gaza. 17 ,000? I had to read it twice. They said that. So, you know, I'm just citing them. There are lots of other estimates, but we'll just go with the Israeli. No, let's go with the Israeli press, which are often more critical than ours. Right, exactly. Well, they're way more critical than ours. But let's just go with that. I think that that's immoral. As a Christian, I'm very offended.

2:10:29There were, by the way, Christians among those killed there. They did nothing wrong. I'm offended by that but even if I supported that which I don't I would say I don't I don't think I want to have anything to do with that I don't want to be tied to that why should I take responsibility for your crime President Biden sent his humanitarian aid float show remember that cost cost probably at least a quarter billion dollars that entire deployment almost did nothing currently American contractors I'm sure you saw this are involved in this food aid scheme which appears to basically just be like, look, I mean, I have to be honest here.

2:11:04It almost seems like a literal trap. Like there are hundreds of Palestinians who have literally been killed trying to get sued. Is this the one run by an American evangelical preacher? I believe so. I mean, it's these American contractors and this is set up through the United States government and all these private foundations. And I know this can get difficult. By the way, even talking about this, I recently saw referred to as a literal blood libel is to mention the fact that people who were coming for aid were literally gunned down and murdered. That's supposedly a blood libel against the Jewish people.

2:11:33Like, again, remove your rhetoric and let's talk in the realm of facts. Your own newspapers are reporting the fact that hundreds of civilians were killed trying to get aid in Gaza. I'm repeating what your Israeli press is saying. I'm repeating what the independent press is saying, what the people in Gaza are saying as well to the extent that there's any independent oversight of this whatsoever. And let's return to the question of I think what both of our orientation is. Is this good for our country? I would say no. You can talk in the realm spiritually. I would also just talk in the realm – we can talk in the realm spiritually and like kind of what that means to normalize saying let's kill children like Congressman Randy Fine or other members who are like openly celebrated and think it's like a good thing.

2:12:14But we can easily talk about what we said about national interest. Is it healthy? Is it normal to be obsessed with the way – with defending supposedly the most moral army in the world when almost every counterterrorism and Iraq war veteran I know would be ashamed to have fought this way in the global war on terror. American troops, look, we made a lot of mistakes, but you cannot fault the American soldier or the American Marine or the American airman for not at many times putting their own lives on the line and many losing them to protect Iraqi and Afghan civilians. In fact, often that was a core part of our mission.

2:12:53And they would – look, I don't think it was worth it, but when required, they were willing to do so. And I haven't seen that in the way that this war has been conducted. I haven't either, but I don't understand why we would take responsibility for fixing Gaza. I mean, that's – we can't fix Baltimore. For real. You're right. Yeah. Why should we? And this has been the plan from day one. That's what I was going to say is remember back in November 2023, even shortly after October 7th, Israeli Knesset members and others were writing in the Wall Street Journal, actually it's the United States that should take in people from Gaza after we expel them.

2:13:31or it's American contractors. So the people of Gaza are so dangerous. Every person in Gaza, including the children, they're all terrorists because it's genetic. Right. They've been saying that. It's genetic. What are we even talking about? Like what kind of, what is this? It's genetic? I can think of a widely discredited political movement in Europe that used to talk like that. It's genetic? Whatever. Anyway, but they're too dangerous to live next to. We can't even have them in the region. You guys need to take them. That is the purest expression of contempt for the United States, I can imagine.

2:14:02And that was step one. Step two was all of these broad plans about U.S. peacekeepers. Now it's broadly evolved. They're mostly trying to pass it off on the Gulf. But as you and I know, there's no Gulf military that could potentially occupy Gaza. It would, of course, either have to be fully funded by the United States of America or probably would result in some sort of U.S. troop presence in Jordan serving as the supply mission with some sort of never-ending deployment that would put people at risk, just like our current occupation in Syria, where we continue to have hundreds of troops For what?

2:14:31If anybody thinks you and I are conspiracy theorists, let's not forget that after this Israeli-backed al-Qaeda takeover of Syria, which was – I guess U.S. and Israeli-backed al-Qaeda takeover of Syria, that the current – there are current negotiations between the Israeli and U.S. government right now – this is out in the open – about the United States actually filling in areas of Syria that were taken over by Israel and occupying them as some sort of safe zone between Syria and between Israel. And again, first of all, this is a government supported by Israel and I guess by the United States now at this point.

2:15:06So why do the troops even need to be there? Also, we were told that we have to stand up against countries seizing territory like Putin and Ukraine. I've literally watched the Greater Israel Project march forward in the last two years into Syria, of course, West Bank, and now with Gaza and the expansionist behavior there, which we just don't talk about here at all. It's like a violation of our norms. It violates every norm that we have about the way that a civilized nation were to conduct itself. It's what we condemn and sanction. Isn't that why we're fighting Russia? Exactly. And that's where the hypocrisy of it collapses in and of itself.

2:15:46And the only way it's justifiable is earlier what we referred to this like bastardized Christian and rabbinical theological doctrine. My favorite was the former U.S. ambassador, David Friedman, trying to lecture you about Christian theology, right? It didn't learn that much from this lecture. It didn't learn much, right? But it's like, what? And I mean, my final point actually on that too, and as you know, there's probably no more contempt than by a lot of the pro-Zionist movement for the actual Christian evangelicals who, for whatever reason, are so broadly supportive of Israel. They use them as pawn.

2:16:24They laugh at them. Oh, if they knew. Yeah, I wish they knew. And I know a lot of them listen to you. Yeah. I hope. Nice people. Good people. You know, if you ever go to Israel, probably 80 % of the flight is going to be people from Alabama or, you know, from all across the American South. World's nicest people, yes. Who are going to the Holy City, which is great. You know, that's awesome. But while they're there, they're subjected to all of this end times propaganda about why it's so important to support the state. And I think what's really sick is that the government, the Israeli government, uses them as political pawns in our country when secretly they have nothing but contempt and laugh at them.

2:17:00They're like, oh, look at these gross people in our streets or any of that. There's no actual appreciation. I remember asking Benjamin Netanyahu, I mean, over 20 years ago, when, you know, terrorists were occupying the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem, which is a city in which Jesus was born. So it's, you know, arguably the most important church in Christendom. And the IDF shot fired into the church, killed, I think, a bell ringer. I think may have killed a monk. Anyway, killed Christians in a Christian church in a Christian city, formerly it's no longer a Christian city, thanks to his occupation.

2:17:37But I was totally for Israel. I've never been against Israel, actually, which is the hilarious part. But I remember saying to him, like, you're using American weapons to fire into the Church of the Nativity? This was on CNN at the time. And boy, it was like, were you an anti-Semite? No. I don't want to fire into the church of the nativity. Like, how is that okay? And why does everyone think it's okay? It's not okay. It's not okay. And it's, I mean, we were talking yesterday about in the, you know, the recent settler violence that happened against these Christian people. I mean, part of why I feel upset about this is not just about the, you know, we rightfully, if you're a Christian, you should also care about other Christians, but it's like, guys, this is just a normal behavior in the way that they act in this region and supported by the Israeli government.

2:18:26Now, again, as somebody who cares about my own country, it would all be bad things happen all over the world. That's a fact of life. But we – us funding them, it becoming a major political issue in our country, unfortunately, you're turning people like us who – I don't – look, Israel was never my number one issue. Never. No, no, no. I really did not particularly care. I spent time in the country, and I liked it. And that was kind of my – I said, eh, this Palestinian thing is kind of messed up, but whatever. You know, it's their business. This was always like a lefty issue. All these people, you know, who you were, you don't agree with them on anything and they're running around talking about genocide.

2:19:04It's like, just stop. I had no desire. Like the last thing I want to do is get involved. I felt the same, but I felt compelled once I saw not only the level – well, I saw the level of which the Likud interests started basically becoming a part of the mainstream American right. Yeah. Became even more concerned when I saw Likud interests running state laws, passing BDS laws on the books of multiple states in the United States, restricting the free speech rights of American citizens. Ron DeSantis signs a censorship law, a blasphemy law in a foreign country? Right, in a foreign country. I like DeSantis.

2:19:46That was the point where I was like, you're disgusting. I can't support you. Ron DeSantis, who banned critical race theory, then basically starts affirmative action for Jewish students in the state of Florida. I can't genuinely think of a better representation of the modern American right. But it just destroyed Ron DeSantis. And I really liked Ron DeSantis. I knew him pretty well. I always tried my best in my limited way to promote Ron DeSantis because I thought he did such a marvelous job during COVID in Florida. I was in Florida for part of that, and I was like, oh, you're great. And he was totally destroyed by this one issue because it was utterly inconsistent with everything else he was saying.

2:20:22It's like, wait, we're against affirmative action. We're against blasphemy laws. I thought we were Americans. We have a First Amendment. How can you travel to a foreign country and sign a law restricting my speech rights? You're exactly right. The University of California system, the largest state in our country, is now saying that any organization that supports BDS will have any federal grant money pulled. I mean, listen, this is insanity. This is – yes, that happened – I think it happened a couple of days ago. They're warning students not even to speak out. Can you boycott the United States?

2:20:53Can you boycott other states? Of course you can. Of course you can. And that's my point is that it's genuinely all just about a foreign nation and it's – and one political party's interests and then hijacking it in ours. And I guess I should give the disclaimer, as you said, like you do, because I already know the inevitable. I'm not an anti-Semite. I spent a long time in Israel. I like Israel. I have people who I would consider genuine family who are literally Israeli and living in Israel. I love them. It is not about them. It's about their government. It's about their party. And more specifically, it's actually about my country's relationship with them.

2:21:27I wish them nothing but the best. And I actually, I just wish we just treated it like any other country. I have affinity for Switzerland, Japan, India. I mean, I've been all over the world, which is one of the great blessings of my life. And I just want – I want to look at our relationship with all those countries on a relatively equal basis and just say, okay, what are we getting from this and what are we getting from that? And instead, I've watched this religion both around support for Israel but Ukraine and NATO. I mean NATO is a religion, as you know. It's transformed itself into a religion and not a defensive alliance.

2:21:59I agree. And watching that happen has been one of the most frustrating events of my life because the consequences in both of these cases are so dire for the people who elect a lot of these representatives to power. And, I mean, we got lucky that the 12-day war ended when it did. But to say that that's the final solution is ridiculous because, again, Israel bombs Iraq in 1981. Mission accomplished? Yes or no? Israel bombed Syria's reactor program in 2007. Mission accomplished? Did it stop there? Gaddafi gave up his nukes. Is it only just about nukes? Of course it's not about nukes. It's about regime change.

2:22:38That's what they want. They're open about it. And, you know, plea, everyone, watch Israeli television. There are a lot of people who translate it. They brag about this stuff out in the open, about killing Gazans, about regime change, about the way that they manipulate the United States. They say it in Hebrew. Ask your friend. There are a lot of Hebrew speakers here in America. They can translate it for you. It's sickening. It's out in the open. I mean, they make Fox. They put Fox News to shame, a lot of these people. Which is hard to do. Which is very hard to do. Boy, I just am praying for Trump.

2:23:09I'm praying for this is the last political solution to our problems. And I think we – all my hope is in Trump, and I hope that the administration course corrects and does it really soon. Yeah, I think they need to on that issue with Epstein. And broadly, you know, you were elected on a message about America first and just so blatantly putting another country's interests ahead of our own is not going to go unnoticed by a large segment of the American public and specifically younger people who are suffering right now. The U.S. economy right now is a disaster. The ability to buy a house rates are very high from the federal—that's one thing he's correct about Trump, you know, especially on the Federal Reserve, about high interest rates, about the fact that we have, like, a collapse of social trust.

2:23:54I spent a long time talking about gambling. We're watching extractive industries get richer and richer on the backs of a lot of ordinary and working class people. Their lives are getting worse probably every single year. And, you know, just touting GDP and, oh, tax cuts for the rich and all this stuff. I don't think people can put up with all of that together. I agree. And you have three and a half years left. You know, you can still make a change if you want to. for people who aren't familiar with your show where do they find it? Breaking points breaking points on YouTube, Spotify wherever you find it congratulations on your well-deserved success thank you and I hope you're an inspiration to many others well you're an inspiration to me I owe all my career to you and so I have to say that thank you very much thank you for giving me the opportunity I didn't do anything we just hired a lot of people at low wages which I guess is kind of what you're decrying but anyway great to see you it worked out though Thank you.

2:24:51Thank you.

2:24:56We want to thank you for watching us on Spotify, a company that we use every day. We know the people who run it, good people. While you're here, do us a favor. Hit follow and tap the bell so you never miss an episode. We have real conversations, news, things that actually matter. Telling the truth always. You will not miss it if you follow us on Spotify and hit the bell. We appreciate it. Thanks for watching.