Tucker and Mike Cernovich on Nicolas Maduro’s Capture, Charlie Kirk’s Murder, and Battling Demons

26:30Okay, that's like one thing that, you know. And maybe it's just time to accept the reality of it. So I would like to live in a small agrarian Christian republic where everyone knows everyone else. Like, that's kind of my idea of utopia. That's not anywhere near what we have. We live in a continent-sized country with 350 million other people, and we'll probably have 500 million by the time we're old, okay? So, and we run at least half of the world. So maybe what we're seeing is people just embracing what was already true and not, like, fighting against, like, I hate the idea of having an empire, but we do.

27:10Right. So maybe that is what's happening. I don't know. I'm trying to figure it out. No, I mean, you're born in the world, right? Right. That's the – You've got an empire. Just roll with it. Be an empire. You're born into a body. You're born into a human body and these weird things, and you have to figure out how to balance being an animal and a spirit. We didn't choose it. We're born into America. In a particular place and time, and here's the problems that we have. Here are the resources that we have. What can we do to reduce as much as possible human suffering and govern justly? as an empire and we had one.

27:47I mean, in a way, we don't have one. That's the problem. It's like the worst of all worlds where they invade the world, invite the world. I forget who coined that, but that's a good - It was a favorite of Pep Buchanan's for sure. Yeah, yeah. It might've been Steve Saylor, one of those guys, but we had the worst of it, which is, oh, we're going to go in and destroy your countries and then we're going to bring you back up here to do daycare welfare fraud. Exactly. No, that's right. Whereas the righteous thing to do would have said, we're going to invade your countries, but we're actually going to share in your resources.

28:17And that was one of the real, I think, evils of removing Gaddafi was they had education, which again sounds very leftist, but a lot of this is just subjectively true. And they had free oil, more or less, free petrol, and now they have open air slave markets. So we did the worst. We didn't build empires. We destroyed other people's places. And then rather than colonizing them, we brought everybody up here and now we have$40 trillion in debt, scam after scam. We have – like it or not, we have blood feuds being imported where now you have to have an opinion about Somaliland. My god. In my life, as I get older, I'm trying to have fewer opinions.

29:04And now I have to know the difference between Somalia and Somaliland. And then you look at the Minnesota flag, which is obviously tied to Somalia. That, again, is the worst of all worlds. So if we're going to do it, then we should do it as an empire. So what does the future look like? What do the next three years look like? So you saw the president saying, you know, this worked. We're going to do it in a bunch of other countries. Well, the future generally versus empire building are two different things because I think the future we're on a pathway with the transhumanism. There's a fork in the road about humanity and what it even means to be a human.

29:49So that is a whole other different discussion. But if you mean geopolitics, for example, I think that we're going to continue to see these kinds of targeted strikes. now the danger is that whose aim is what to remove the leadership of the country and replace it with a pro-american yeah yeah to put to you know plop one guy out um put somebody else in and if you do in places like latin america i actually think you can do it i mean trump's already talking about colombia the mexican cartel that's the the strange thing about all this is that the everybody says why don't we do mexico when mexico is a full narco state they have controls of border towns in the U.S.

30:30It's a completely They have control of Arizona, don't they? If you talk to the Turning Point guys, then they have some pretty strong opinions about Katie Hobbs and how she got in. So, what would a war with a cartel? It's a different, it's a whole different Pandora's box you're opening there. But if you can remove Maduro, you can remove a few people, you're sending a message to people. So here's where here's why i disagree with the the neocon model and i think there's like a right a right wing worldview that's coherent and it goes like this the neocon according to the neocon model everyone is just a madman they're just madmen everywhere and pakistan they hate us for no reason they just they're just madmen and they're not rational actors putin's a madman putler that's that's the whole worldview of just the neocons and the neoliberal establishment putin's a madman.

31:28And I'm like, well, I don't know. He's 70. I read a lot about Russian history with the oligarchs had taken over the country after Yeltsin left. You needed a strong man to come in. He brought the oligarchs to heel. The oligarchs were like looting the country. And you look at him and you're like, this is, you can call him evil. That's a moral question. But somebody being evil is different from whether somebody is a rational or an irrational actor. Putin is acting in a way that, in my opinion, is quite predictable. He was the most rational actor in the world. Yeah, of course. And then you look at the mullahs and you just say they want to have their fiefdoms.

32:05They don't want high IQ people in Iran even. They're trying to get rid of as many high IQ people as they possibly can. This was funny. Actually, I was at a dinner. There's a Persian diaspora in Orange County and LA. Huge. Yeah. And not just Jewish and the secular and the Muslim. And I was talking to this. They're just like a good-looking couple, very well-educated, smart. And I go, how did you guys get out of Iran? It was one of those things where I thought I knew something, but I revealed my own ignorance. I said, how did you guys get out of Iran? He goes, oh, he goes, you get – and people on Twitter call me a liar for this too, which is like so annoying.

32:41But he goes, no, no. Basically, they give you IQ tests. And if you're a high IQ and you're too high IQ, they let you get educated and they want you out of the country. because high IQ people have too much of a revolutionary risk. So that there shows you that - Well, that's why we legalize marijuana. Same idea. Right. So I see the moolahs under a different model than the neocons do. And I view them as they want to have their little fiefdoms. Of course. They want to govern over the ashes. So yeah, obviously we don't want them to become a nuclear power or whatnot. But that doesn't mean you have to go in and go to war with them because, oh no, any day now they might just do something like crazy, right?

33:21And I think that's like the right-wing position is you see people, you remove the moralize, which most people can't do. Most people, they want to say the mullahs are evil. Sure. Nobody hates the mullahs more than the Persian diaspora. Of course. Nobody hates them more. So this whole idea that they're not, it's like, sure, they're evil, But then the minute you talk about an evil person engaging in rational activity, then they're like, oh, wow, so you support evil. You know, God help. I've lived this. Oh, my God. Right. Then you're dealing with someone who shouldn't be involved in the conversation because they're not capable of, like, thinking clearly.

33:56Here's my concern. I agree with – I think your analysis is absolutely right. I mean, talk to the Gulf states. You think they like the mullahs? No. They despise them, but they don't want to see them regime change necessarily because what comes next? The only country that wants that is Israel and not even Israel. It's Bibi. It's specifically Netanyahu. And some of his supporters want that. And they're putting enormous pressure on the administration to do it. And my one my biggest concern about what just happened in Venezuela is that will be seen as a template for Iran. like let's just take out you know the religious leadership of iran or the political leadership or the military leadership and like everything will go as well as it did in venezuela and you know maybe that's true but if it's not true the stakes are high no well that's why people have to have a a definition of what victory looks like because victory for the united states looks different than victory from other people.

34:56So, and this is where I think people, people like lose the plot a little bit. So it's in, it might be in the interest of some countries for there to be chaos, because if there's chaos in those people, you can kind of go in, you don't have to worry about it. It's the interest of the United States for there not to be chaos. Of course. That's what we say. We say, of course, but nobody says it, you know? Well, I do constantly. Chaos is not in our interest. Yeah. So it's in our interest that if we do do regime change that we don't have chaos. We do want to have a moral leadership and moral clarity, and we do want to keep things on the right path.

35:35And then other people have different interests, and it's just up to us to keep pushing for the orderly governance of the world via American imperialism. Well, it wasn't that long ago that many Americans thought they were inherently safe from the kinds of disasters you hear about all the time in third world countries. A total power loss, for example, or people freezing to death in their own homes. That could never happen here. Obviously, it's America. People are recalculating, unfortunately, because they have no choice. The last few years have taught us that. Remember when the power grid in Texas failed in the dead of winter?

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39:02If you look at the Biden foreign policy poking Russia and moving NATO, that was all neoliberalism. And they're just too rich I guess and bored and want to play checkers and chess with other people's lives. but the the trump view is that we're starting from the american position gas prices are down oil from venezuela like we need it we have a deficit that we're never going to pay back like if you if you take a step back and you just embrace it all you you also people always ask me how I feel and I go, well, I go from optimism to despair in a split second. Because if you look at the national debt, we're not going to pay that.

39:51There's no way to pay it back. It's impossible. There's no way to pay it back. So what happens? Do we hyperinflate our currency? Do we fall on our debt? Trump is going to try resource extraction. So we get Venezuelan oil. We drive down costs here. We get cheap energy here. Well, apparently AI will lead to maybe some kind of deflation who knows people have their own opinions on that that's still being hotly contested and in that way imperialism can be a win-win because the venezuelans can be better off we extract our share of it maybe maybe that's utopia maybe that's pie in the sky but that what's the other answer the the i mean the other answer is more the other answer is like dude charlie kirk was assassinated Some guy was just at J.D.

40:40Vance's house in Cincinnati, banging on the window, maybe shooting at it. All the details aren't there. The alternative is – it's like a Bolshevik revolution. The alternative is anarcho-tyranny, which is what we already have under the Democrat rule, and that's really bad. The alternative is if we don't fix it, you're going to have more class resentment. we do have a neo-bolshevik movement in the united states unabashed marxist when the maduro thing happened it was interesting you saw the brandon johnson chicago's mayor mayor karen bass who was in africa while the palisades was burning she was taking some kind of vacation mandami and they're all sort of with maduro so you have this global marxist movement which is you know the red green alliance which gets tossed around but some of the stuff these guys say in the think tanks i've actually, if you read into it enough, I think a lot of that really is accurate.

41:39So you have this red-green alliance of third world thinking with neo-Bolshevism or Marxism, however people want to characterize it. And they do not have a good plan for the US. They want to loot it. They want to destroy it. They have a deep hatred for whatever reason of white people, white people of European descent are just absolutely hated, hated by all of these forces. So... And not just by them, by the neocons. We don't... Hate Europeans too, for some reason. I'm not exactly sure why. But Christians, I feel like kind of everyone... That is my frustration with all this talk of anti-Semitism, which I oppose.

42:20I just gave a speech saying why I oppose it. On Christian grounds, I am sincerely opposed to anti-Semitism and racism and hating anybody on the basis of his blood. I'm just opposed to it. against my religion. But like the main form of institutionalized hate is not anti-Semitism. It's anti-white hate in the United States. And like, why does nobody say that? Well, I mean, I remember with police and fire hiring, that was in the 80s, where if you're a white male, Adam Crowell had talked about that before, but he tried to be a firefighter. Of course. And they just said, well, you're a white man. How about JP Morgan?

42:53Same thing. It's in every part of American society. So yeah, the white man has been – the white man, that's a funny way of putting it. But white men have been hated for decades and they've been the world's punching bag until, of course, you need a Delta Force mission. They post a picture and it's all jacked white guys with a few Latinos and – Always has been. with tattoos and you think, well, the whole generation was hollowed out and you just do not see. And for me, that's a litmus test for 2028 is anyone who runs for president but won't specifically condemn anti-white hate by name is not even in the - Well, J.D.

43:34Vance just did that. You're not even in the mix because if you - Could you see Ron DeSantis saying, calling out anti-white hate by name? DeSantis is an interesting, I think he would have three or four years ago. Yes, I totally agree. His evolution, his evolution has been, he lost, he needs to listen to people like Christina Pouchard more. I agree. The problem I noticed a lot of people. He gets sucked into donor world. They get in the West Palm Beach, they get around the Richies, and I've seen that happen to a lot of people. You cannot spend, whether it's the tech guys or the finance guys, the West Palm Beach people, the Silicon Valley people, can't spend too much time around the Richies, man.

44:24I totally agree. They're not living in reality. They have all these weird pet projects that don't have any kind of connection to downstream reality. Yes. They're glib and out of touch, and they're going to steer you aside. You have to just stay with the people, man. You got to stay with the people. So Ken Griffin is not a reliable bellwether of American public opinion? He bought this, I think, Tyrannosaurus Rex fossil or something for$75 million. Yeah, people who are like, I have so much money that I just want a dinosaur fossil or dinosaur skeleton in my atrium might not be the people you want to take political advice from.

45:10No, probably the last people. So do you think DeSantis is obviously going to run in the primary, you think? DeSantis, Cruz. It's going to be an open field because there always is, because that's how they get media time and sell books and everything. But the – What do you think it will look like? The table – well, one is it depends if we get – it depends what happens in the midterms and how many impeachments Trump gets hit with if they can't keep the midterms. Although Elon is back in the game, so maybe Republicans keep the midterms. Keep the House? I think they if with Elon you can with Elon's money you can and it's just that's a sad thing to say but that's just again that's maybe like that's where it goes back to like I'm an I'm a pragmatist on the idealist yeah money out of politics okay well that's nice um no we need to get we need to basically but like it's funny because I have all my friends are pro-isro basically and my advice to them is has been like a singular one you need to guys need to just calm down because the anti-Semis are so moronic right now.

46:18Just let them talk because everything they say is off-putting to anyone with a high IQ. But if you come with rancor, then that's just, you're muddy in the field. And I go, two is just be like Stephen Miller. Stephen Miller likes Israel a lot, wants Israel to prosper and everything. But when people think of Stephen Miller, all they think about is this guy's amazing. You know, like Stephen Miller wakes up trying to do things for America. and then if you do that we don't really care what Israel does or at least I don't most of us wouldn't or there would be certainly less rancor around it and if they would just fund things then everybody would be better off so Elon he just writes huge checks and if that side wrote bigger checks for Republicans to just be Republicans that's what I've been telling them I go look you're going to get 80-90 % of what you want if you just keep Republicans in the house You're going to get that.

47:14The alternative for you guys is AOC and Mondami and all these other people versus people like me who are just realistic and pragmatic about it. And people like JD who's like – who's the same thing. He's just a pragmatist. You got to accept that – you just got to accept that not everybody is going to be an ideologue about it. But you can still win without people being ideologues. You can win, which is good old, good old fashioned alliances where you help out, you pitch in where you don't see the Trump coalition is so broken, so fractured because I do think the neocons are intentionally breaking it because they want to keep JD from becoming.

47:50I don't think it's working, though. I mean, I'm old. You don't think it's working. I'm old head from 2015. This is all a repeat of 2015. It's a repeat of the DeSantis when he ran in the primary. Same talking points at the same people playing the same kind of games. So I don't – I just see it as this is the third season of 2015, 2022, 2023, and now it's back again. So I don't see it, and the way the politics lines up on this stuff, especially in like 2028, is you got to look at it as – there's just not – there's the problem. I'm – I always want to be careful what I say is that – not because I'm like afraid of being canceled because I've been – I mean I've been through the ringer a thousand times.

48:40But the people who really see Israel as a key issue just need to understand that, hey, man, you're going to get most of what you want. But if you take it so that we can't win in 2028 with a Republican because you create so much acrimony and division and suppress the vote, then you're going to get a bad Democrat. you're going to get a bad democrat and you're going to get maybe a bad democrat congress so people need to not not behave in this kind of way that's because it's not helpful i just think of things like politics am i being am i being helpful to the country and i'm being am i being helpful for 2026 and 2028 and i think that's how everybody needs to needs to view the map like are you are you being helpful like are you going to get what you want if you continue to behave this way you You don't need to be an economist to see what's happening.

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51:20Try Welch's Fruit Snacks today. Well, it depends what you want. So if you run around calling people Nazis, the chance that you're going to convince them to become Nazis is pretty high. I mean, that's just very obvious if you're doing that. And so maybe they want more Nazis. There's a segment of people, but it's much smaller. It's the lab segment? Well, if you want to – the incentive structure is different. So if you're in media and you want to maximize a certain kind of sales funnel where they get as many people as they can, as many eyes on them, that they want to be acrimonious and they want to throw bombs because that's the business, right?

52:12But if you're more political, you want to think about how is this going to help us achieve an agenda? How is this going to help the country? How is this going to help them get what they want? That's what I'm trying to see. I'm just trying we had this alliance that won in 2024 the popular vote which I knew Trump was going to win we have mutual friend actually I'll tell you I'll tell you when we stop um when we stop filming but he was so blackpilled about the election right and I said no he's gonna win we'll know that night he's gonna Trump's gonna win we're gonna know that night he goes crazy. I go, I promise you, promise you.

52:55And election night has like, well, who told everybody? The only thing I didn't see is I didn't think we were going to win the we, you know, I didn't think Trump was going to win the popular vote. So we have this alliance. We have Maha, you have the OG, like MAGA people, the wild energy they brought in. There was always this boisterous male energy, but then they brought a bunch more of that in. Then you had the post-October. I don't think Trump wins if October 7th doesn't happen, to be honest. And I said this at the time, because when October 7th happened, they realized, oh, this is what the left really is, right?

53:34And I do think a lot of them weren't, a lot of the pros really people were not paying attention to what the left kind of had become. Because I remember I would talk about the Red Arena Alliance and people's eyes would sort of glaze over like, that sounds stupid. And so you have the post-07 people. You have the, they don't want their kids trans. You have Maha. You have the nationalists. You have the populists. You get the tech guys. You get the wealth tax guys. So it's a coalition and everybody - The rappers, the Salvadorans. Yeah, the rappers. You have the Venezuelan, the Cubans. It's a political coalition that has to be kept together.

54:13And I think every coalition partner needs to look out for others and some coalition partners can push for themselves more and lose sight of things. So my opinion, foreign policy and everything else has gotten too much attention. Maha hasn't gotten enough attention. RFK Jr. has sort of done what he has. The domestic issues, there's only so much Trump can do because judges are blocking him. but that that's another concern of mine is that domestic issues are getting blocked and then that's going to create fractures in the coalition but i do think the okay can i ask though if you i'm the reason i'm have such like a tepid not interesting response to what happened two days ago is because i think it's like a pivot point in history and i don't fully understand what it means so i don't want to get over my skis until i have a better sense of what i think it means but it is a totally new way of conducting diplomacy slash foreign policy slash military action.

55:11Like this is a new thing because Trump didn't dress it up with a lot of lying about democracy or human rights. He's like, no, we want the oil. And like, this guy's bad and we're taking him out and we're going to run it. Never, no one alive has seen anything like that before in the United States. So you wonder, and that's why I'm saying, I think we're for good or bad, fully in the empire stage of civilizational development. The republic stage is over. No one cares about Congress. So, no, just like no one cared about the Roman Senate. I wonder, like, how long until that same governing style applies to domestic policy, where - We lived it.

55:49We lived it, man. Like, we lived it under Biden. Well, you're right. Will you flesh that out? Like, people forget we lived in - Like, people like me lived in hell. Ricky Vaughn was a - I remember when Douglas Mackey was arrested. What a good man. Raided in Florida, chased down with guns. I followed all these court cases. The Blacks for Trump guy was chased down by unidentified FBI agents. They just started chasing him down with a gun because they obviously wanted to initiate a shootout and gaslight him into a shootout. A thousand plus J6ers, people who committed at most misdemeanor trespass around up.

56:22We lived under anarcho-tyranny. Lake and Riley's murdered. We have murders happening. L.A. is, again, anarcho-tyranny. For those who don't know, because you don't live on Twitter, thank God, God bless you, is, you know, I think, I forget who coined the phrase, the name escapes me, but you would know. And the idea is that if you're a law-abiding citizen, you live under a state of tyranny where you're going to need a jaywalking ticket. Right, that's right. But there can be a homeless encampment right next to the don't walk sign, but you're the one who's going to get the ticket while the encampment's there.

56:51and that's that's what we lived under an imperial dictatorship where everybody was just like oh yeah like when like have you talked to you have you had like you talked to the kids yet and everybody charlie posobik everybody had that conversation with the kids which is like hey just so you know like daddy might be taken away for a couple years and you know he's gonna go away and if anybody like shows up don't do anything uh you know because they might try to shoot you they might want to put a flashbang grenade in the house. They might want to kill your kids in front of you. When they raided Michael Cohen's house, even though Cohen ended up turning up, what they did to him was just disgraceful.

57:28They were going through his daughter's iPads in front of him. This is wicked, starchy stuff. They just didn't get really any media coverage. I didn't even know they did that to Cohen. No, no. That's one reason I think Cohen sort of broke him. They just took all the iPads out of the little kid's room and they were just like taunting him. They threatened to send Don Jr. to prison for the rest of his life for he didn't do anything. John Eastman, a respected member of the bar, constitutional law professor, disbarred in California. Jeffrey Clark, great career in law, big law, Kirkland and Ellis. They're trying to take his law license in D.C.

58:01One thing after another, and it got almost no coverage and no attention because the media would cover, downplay it, or they would lie about it. And that was like the world, dude. I've had that conversation with my kids. They're too young to understand. Like I remember like because I don't have any money. Like I have no money. And people are like, well, you know, won't you have any money? It's like my family has all my money because I know that I could just be stripped of everything any day. Even now that if you're a target of the regime, you could just like wake up. You're like, okay, well, I guess I'm fucked.

58:36But on the other hand, you're just like, my God, how have I been boiled in the pot for this long that I've just accepted that as the norm. And I think that's something that is a problem with all of us. We just took it for real. Like, oh, Charlie Kirk. I remember Charlie Kirk got shot. I remember Posobiec calls. He's like, dude, they killed Charlie. Everybody thought they would just kill somebody else first. But everybody knew they were going to kill somebody. Everybody knew it. This is how we live our life. I live my life knowing I could be killed any day. I live my life under Biden knowing, well, you know, i could any day anything anything something could happen i know every day that i wake up just to a shit show of false it doesn't it just doesn't matter that that's the way that you live and as as like fucked up as it is and and the reason our people i think don't talk about it is you just you have a certain ability a stiff upper lip you don't want to you don't want to sound like a victim but that's exactly right that's not it's not like nor it's like it's a weird.

59:40It's like enraging in a way like, no, this is not how it's supposed to be in America, where you know that any given day, like you might be taken away from your children because of politics and because of how rotten and corrupt everything is. I couldn't agree more. Obviously, I live a life exactly like the one you described. On the other hand, I think it's essential to cling to your nobility and refuse to become a victim and refused to act like Seth Dillon or whoever, like constantly talking about, oh, the threat's against me. People are mean to me. Come on. You know, you chose to be in this. Just man up.

1:00:14He did, but he shouldn't have to. No, I agree. No one should threaten Seth Dillon. I'm totally opposed to threatening him or anyone else. Just saying, like, talking about yourself is disgusting. That's our problem, though. See, that's how they got us in this Catch-22, which is, well, nobody can complain because we're you know manly men and we're we don't complain but then they get away with everything and people go wait a minute you had to say like i think that most people if you told them oh yeah like i remember when i was when douglas mackie got wrongfully arrested and charged launched. And for a crime he didn't commit, and it's been proven now he didn't commit the crime, that I remember sitting out with my kids and I go, hey, kids, I just want to let you know, talk to my wife.

1:01:01Hey, here's your money. Here's where the money is. It's all in your name. I don't have anything. And tell my kids, hey, kids, they might take daddy away. The bad guys might come and get daddy and it'll be okay and everything. Dude, if we don't talk about it, then nobody knows. Right. Right. But we're like, well, I don't want to fucking cry. I'm a real man. I'm a da-da-da-da-da. It's like, great. And then nobody knows. And then people get like, wait a minute, John Eastman, a distinguished law professor, wrote a memo that wasn't even acted on. He just lost his life, lost his position at Chapman, his standing in the world, even his law license, his ability to earn a living.

1:01:39This is what is happening. So we do need to bitch more. To be honest, that's our problem. That's the exploit. And whatever our DNA is or whatever our operating software is or whatever our genetics is, that's our exploit. Is we just sort of, you just take the hits. You take the hits, you endure the weight of life. Yeah, dad doesn't complain. That's what you do. And then they take our country and then they fuck us up like one by one. So I remember like some guy showed up to Fuentes' place to kill him and then end up killing somebody else down the street. Shows up. People are like, well, they didn't even know.

1:02:13It was like, because you're not supposed to talk about it. And Fuentes, his credit. I mean, I gave him a chance to talk about it and whatever you think of Fuentes, but he did not marinate in his victimhood at all. Yeah, some loony goes up to Cat Turn's house, tries to get him. They go after Benny Johnson. They go after Seth Dillon. Candace Owens has had threats. Charlie Kirk gets killed. So I think it's, there's a way to talk about these. And that's why the Charlie Kirk thing really was a frustrating thing for me because, well, I mean, it was a tragic thing, you know, like, that sounds so, like, shallow.

1:02:48So I just thought that people would realize they're hunting us for sport, all of us. Tucker, they're hunting you. If they could get Shapiro, they would get Shapiro. If they could get Walsh, they could get Walsh. If they could get Candace, they could get Candace. And it ain't the Israelis and it ain't the Jews that are doing it. It's a violent, feral, terrorist, Bolshevik left. And they would get all of us if they could. So whatever acrimony we have, which is like, I'm not a unity guy. I'm a guy who likes the mix maybe too much. But it's like, dude, they're going to kill us. They're going to kill all of us.

1:03:24And we need to figure out some kind of way to coexist with one another, understanding that the threat against us is existential. And they would – the left, if they could kill Seth Dillon, they'd be glad to kill them. If they could kill you, they'd be glad to kill you. To them, that's just another notch on their bell to a point on the scoreboard. So what's – I mean what's the administration doing with this? I mean, that was my problem with Trump's first term is the political violence against Trump's supporter, because again, we're just supposed to deal with it, just deal with it, was almost completely ignored during his first term.

1:04:01Is it still being ignored? Under my definition, it is. Yeah, they're arresting some people. There's more happening than the first term, but the response is not what I would like to see. So the claim when Charlie was murdered was that this was Antifa or some Antifa adjacent person or organization. I don't know if that's true. I don't know anything about it. I think it's absolutely true. I don't know that. And I don't have any other theories. I don't even understand the story. But if people said it was true, so like, okay, where's the roundup of Antifa? Sorry, you got a dog sneezing right there.

1:04:44That's the good puppy. So the – no, I'm a – I mean I think it was Tyler Robinson. I think a 22-year-old man on a mission is a very dangerous thing in that – I think that there were other people in those Discord servers and there were people tweeting something big is going to happen tomorrow and after tomorrow Charlie won't be around anymore. so I'm very frustrated that there doesn't seem to be much interest and maybe those people were just guessing or maybe they were trolling but there doesn't seem to be much interest in finding out who the who those other people why do you think that's well it doesn't make any sense to me I I always I always go back to the Garland Texas mass shooting which is to me this is like the skeleton key of it all.

1:05:32So Pamela Geller, who's very much pro-Israel, about as hardcore as you can be on the issue, did a draw Muhammad contest. And there was going to be a bunch of other people also like very pro-Israel and a jihadi was going to shoot the place up. It was Texas and he got taken out. But by accident of fate, a local law enforcement officer pulled over an FBI agent who was fleeing the scene, got the guy's phone and the text message to the jihadist at Tearup, Texas. Sounds unbelievable. It's 100 % true. Senator Grassley has asked for information twice from Ray and Garland, has been stonewalled. I don't know why Cash Patel won't release it.

1:06:16I've asked everybody up as high up the food chain as you can get why we can't get it. And what's the answer? My belief is that there's that MKUltra never-ended, co-intel pro mk ultra was of course the mind control experiments they conduct on people where the the book chaos covered this and great detail for people who are curious about that about the charles manson murders demands and murders and then there was that air force guy who was drugged up and killed somebody and that didn't even make sense and i even know about that that book was completely mind-blowing and i do think they still have whatever armor that is whether that's within the FBI or some other dark site within the intelligence community.

1:06:59I'm certain that that still exists. So because of that, you're not going to get any information about that because I do think there would be some kind of dark op. Because what a lot of people – again, the title of the book shows the agenda. It's just chaos. Get everybody afraid. Get everybody panicked. Usher in more surveillance technology. Usher in a surveillance state. bring in a narco-tyranny where if you're law-abiding everything you do is monitored by flock and all these camera traffic cameras everything you do is monitored but if you're a drug addict on the street you're you have free reign you do anything you want this was uh the bolshevik method there was a solzhenitsyn quote alexander solzhenitsyn quote where it went i don't have the exact quote but the substance of it was your punishment for having a knife was different for the thieves.

1:07:52When you had a knife, it was terrorism. When the thief had it, it was just his way of life. And that's what we're living under now with the modern anarcho-tyranny. So what do they have in common? Like, why does this same phenomenon reoccur? Yeah, it's the battle between people say good and evil, but you would just say like logos and chaos. logos the divine order the order of god the unison of people the fellowship of people versus the chaos and the acrimony the evil of the the dark one satan demons every religious tradition has a even dualistic religions or polytheistic religions have chaos gods right so even if you're not monotheistic which i'm monotheistic obviously but everybody has had those the chaos agents so chaos is destroying the divine order and the divine communion of people so you don't see this as political battles but as manifestations of a spiritual battle it's yeah it's a spiritual yeah the political is what you see the spiritual is what you talk about and then people will make fun of you and say you're crazy i don't think they make fun of you anymore do they much less so So you had a tweet about this yesterday, I think.

1:09:11Here's your tweet. If you were a demon with dominion over the planet and you wanted to increase the amount of human suffering across the world, you would eliminate the white population. Yeah. Yeah. So you see what's happening, the death of whites, their massive contraction as a racial group globally. You see that as a manifestation of the spiritual war. Ireland really is the Rosetta Stone, I think, in all of this. I agree. Because you can, again, even if right or wrong, you could at least rationalize. Rhodesia was an evil apartheid state and they had to give it over to Mugabe and it became Zimbabwe.

1:09:51But you know what? They did the right thing and had a bad outcome. Or South Africa for that. I don't agree with that. But you could, there's a chain of logic. Okay. They did the right thing. They ended apartheid. It led to a bad result. Maybe they could have transitioned it better. But there's an A to B to C thing. there right ireland they were colonized by the the white irish were colonized by the white british they were starved their resources were plundered they had the potato they had the potato famine they lived like churches were desecrated churches were desecrated they were an enslaved people but they have to be punished oh i agree why do the irish right to me that's when if people think that tweet sounds crazy or any of this is crazy then you have to tell me why that why do the irish have to pay.

1:10:35I totally agree. And that gives up the whole game. Gives up the whole game. So this is a manifestation of the spiritual war, the destruction of whites. Yeah. And then why that is, I don't know yet. I'll still unravel it, but you can't deny it when you look at Ireland and you look what is happening. Look what's happening globally. You look what is happening in the US and has been happening for decades. But again, And that goes back to, well, you don't want to talk about how you could be killed any day and that's just something you live with. And I just live with it knowing that at any moment I could be gone, removed one way or another.

1:11:16How does that change the way you live, that knowledge?

1:11:23When you know, it's like memento mori. So the arrogance or whatever, because I pretend to be arrogant on the internet sometimes, but people who know me sort of find that kind of funny. But there's one, there's like a deep weight that you carry. Just a deep weight where you know that what you do has consequences and you need to really focus on doing the right thing. It has consequences for yourself and the country because if we do lose, the amount of human suffering is going to be immeasurable in the US and globally. When you read about the Haldimor, you read about the Cambodian genocide, you read about the gulags, it's just a scale of human suffering beyond human understanding.

1:12:14And we're the remaining bulwark against it. So you're just left with a sense of like – and then you're you're um like i have i have a thing kind of a bit i do online although it's really true is i have like i have a war on fun so you don't get to have fun like i don't get to have fun that doesn't mean i don't enjoy my life it doesn't mean that i don't have a cigar and mountain bike and do other things but i just i don't get to have fun that's not the cards to me i don't get to have fun i have to live like a serious person who knows i could be killed that my friends could be killed in the case of charlie a friend will be killed that even people like sething them that i may not see eye to eye with like they could get killed that any of us that could be killed on any given day and so in a way it's like being in it's not being in a combat zone in a way but it is a way of it is a form of warfare so i just i don't get to like have fun i don't get to like goof off or live so it gives your life meaning in some ways it gives it gives your life, yeah, meaning is a complicated subject, but it gives your life a, you certainly have a purpose, right?

1:13:21Where you know that, and this is true of everybody or how people should live is what you do does have significance and consequence and you do have to make it count. That sounds, I mean, in some ways worse, but in most ways better than living without that knowledge that it could end well that that's the meaning that's the meaning kind of paradox i think that's why some people call it the meaning crisis then before that jonathan hate wrote a book the happiness hypothesis and meaning is this concept where if you chase meaning you can't find meaning but you find meaning by living in a certain way and then you go oh this is so like this is meaning so i give you i have these weird it's like a hyper reality you just did a film on this i should we're working on it yeah we're in post we're yeah so okay so yeah explain this through that lens okay well the you know you get when you get older you want to do things that are interesting and hard and i think doing a movie on the meaning of life is about as about as hard as you get right and there so you would say like what is the meaning of life which i've asked everybody and people have their own answers, but sometimes it's good to sort of attack it from the inverse, which is what would be a meaningless life?

1:14:42A meaningless life would be all this suffering of yourself and others, all the human suffering. It was just the way it is. We were just animals and we were bred by some kind of alien species to harvest gold. And if people got harmed or genocided or whatever, that was just there's no reckoning at the end that that to me gives me nightmares to think there's no reckoning or no so then you would say well that would be meaningless okay that's i'm chasing whatever that is so then you start to think of meaning who what is that what meaning is is a communion with god is a catharsis it's that whatever it was whatever you know there's a saying like the only way out is through is like whatever this is that you're going to get through it and there is a divine evening out of everything and that everything did have a point and everything did matter and everything happened for a reason not because you're a actor who doesn't have agency but because it was part of as part of the ride so like i got chunks taken out of me there's no like there's you've had chunks everybody has you know again we're not supposed to talk about it because we're so you know macho macho men but like i think i'm like sometimes i'm just like dude i'm tired man like it is just like having to live like that especially under the biden regime i am the censorship regime where as an adult man you can't even say what you believe because your whole livelihood will be destroyed you might not be able to have a bank account right that that was like the way you kind of lived and you have chunks taken out of you and to think that that was for nothing right like losing which is how meaning ties into i think the the political melee is losing would be the most meaningless thing in the world there's this painting somebody posted and i'm i'm gonna get it reproduced in an um oil painting and it's of when the bolsheviks took over the palace at the bolshevik revolution and it just shows this it just fills me with this like rage You're just staring at evil.

1:16:47And I look at it like, this is what losing looks like. Losing looks like you're lined up next to your kids and they start shooting you, but the kids don't die right away. So they bayonet your kids in front of you. That's what losing looks like. People used to say, oh, Cernovich, you're crazy. That sounds crazy. I remember they say that 2015, 2016, oh, you're so hyperbole. Now everybody, that's what losing looks like. Losing doesn't mean, oh, you're going to have a wealth tax and you're going to have to pay a little bit more taxes. Losing is you are lined up in the basement and they are killing your kids in front of you.

1:17:18That is what like losing is. Well, to me, that's meaningless. To me, that's the antithesis of like whatever the meaning of life is. So the connection between meaning and what do you mean? Well, I don't know. I mean, the basis of Christianity is this guy who Christians believe was God who came down and then like got brought up on false charges and tortured to death. but that he did that so we didn't have to he took on the burden a lot of people take the christ martyrdom as some kind of message that we should become martyrs and i i always say there's been one martyr christ died on the cross i ain't dying on the cross i ain't a martyr christ did that and he took on the sins of mankind and he did that for us i'm i'm not i'm not here to to be crucified and take on the sins of mankind.

1:18:12That's not me, if anything. It's almost like egotistical to think that I should be a martyr and that that would be a way to go. So I reject martyrdom theology fully. Interesting. Yeah. So what is the meaning if the meaning is not getting lined up against the wall with your kids? The meaning is communion, divine communion. Meaning is divine communion. Everything is divine communion. Interacting with God. Interacting with God and then downstream the communion of people. So I'll have these moments of hyper-reality where I'm wrapped up in my own bullshit and, oh, what if I did this? In your own head.

1:18:57And then I'm on the couch with my kids and there's just a moment of stillness. It never lasts. There's just a moment of stillness. Not when you have four, it doesn't last. no well in my own bullshit fucked up brain too you know like a lot of you know there's a lot of us we make prisons of our own mind right of course and we the demons steal our joy you're just you're having a moment and then they're like what about this they're deep state's coming for you or you know one one thing after another and there's just these moments of like stillness and you know this is what it's about you know but that's as because of our primitive brains or whatever our problems are probably because we're not in the garden of eden is we we just can't maintain divine connection the monks can but it's a great aesthetic i always get that word wrong asceticism i always get that bad yeah i'm bad with my no tea asceticism and but they have it's a constant effort you know that's why you know that they're living on a pillar of salt or in a cave yeah yeah and it's like the arrow prayers like, God, you know, Jesus Christ, have mercy on me.

1:20:03You know, you have to constantly be connected with the divine and then lean into your heart more to distract us from the egoism, which, but you have to have some kind of egoism if you live in the world. You can't just not participate in the world. So there's this tension between divine connection, which means surrendering yourself to the full presence of God, right? Versus, okay but i have to like pay my bills dude you know like i have to yeah i have to make my way in this world then those are constantly attention but then something and this is probably why there's a more of a rise for like eastern orthodoxy and and older religious religious traditions and christianity as the and and i love protestants so no no offense to the protestants but Protestantism is very waspish it's like by the book the Bible says this and like here's the scriptures and it's very much of the mind Christian apologetics oh well you think this is there the trinity and it's like arguing back and forth but you're like existing in mind whereas the eastern traditions and by eastern I don't mean Hinduism but even though Hinduism has a Eastern Christianity, but Eastern Orthodoxy needs to Christianity is also about the knowledge of the heart and the tension that you feel every day.

1:21:26Like, uh, every day I'm, I just feel a great spiritual tension where I don't like, if you asked me, are you going to go to heaven or hell? I'd say, I don't, God help me. I don't know. I don't know. Like, are you a good person or bad person? God help me. I don't know. I don't, I don't know. I don't have a good answer to that. It makes it weird too. When like people go at you because you're just like, I don't even know if I'm going to defend myself maybe I you know maybe I am you know like what am I am and and but you can find a certain amount of meaning in that the there's like a certain amount of meaning of confusion like maybe that's how it was supposed to be that we are spirits and human bodies because the if you you know if you read your old philosophy there's debate on mind-body dualism and there's there's a sense that we've all had that, am I a body?

1:22:13Am I a mind? Well, God, we're both. We're a mind and a body, or a spirit and a body. And there's going to be tension between this. We wrestle against the flesh. And so maybe that's the right answer. Maybe the right answer is to not be so sure that you're right and that you're such a righteous and holy person. And maybe the right answer and say, I don't know. I honestly don't know. Well, humility is always the right answer. You're not God. But you can be proud of humility. You know, there's a great... Of course. Well, of course. Benjamin Frank is one of the best favorite writers and he said he would keep a list of the virtues.

1:22:50And he said, I've achieved all virtues, but I found that I myself became proud of my humility. I realized like that was going to get me. So yeah, so there is like a meeting crisis because they're that's why we have the opioid epidemic yes we have people but even people who are successful drug overdose so they blow up their family lives because they're they're thinking is this really all there is oh i i did the right things and so even if you end up in a success beer you're still having those nights one well maybe especially and maybe that describes the politics you were talking about earlier where a lot of a ruling class is just bored and let's let's hurt people just to shake it up a little bit.

1:23:33Yeah, I think a lot of them are driven by demonic spirits. And those people, I think it's less of a meaning crisis and it's more of like an evil animating force. Okay, so how do you recognize that? There's got to be a difference between just being wrong, which I have done many times, probably even today, and being animated by an evil spirit. The angel and demon on your shoulder. Yeah, I mean, that's where the discernment that people talk about so often is something that I think about every, you know. So who do you look at from afar and perceive to be controlled by evil spirits? Most, I mean, when I go to D.C., although it felt a little bit, but it felt like I had exorcism recently.

1:24:21I remember you go to D.C. and you just feel, you just, you're just like, what is this? Yeah. What is this demonic place? This place is the playground, playground of the demons. The whole place. The whole place. Like just to name one person would be to not do justice to the demonic forces at work. Even recently, if you look in the Department of Justice, have you ever looked at the occult artwork at DOJ? No. I'll show you some pictures. At DOJ? Next time you're at DOJ, go get a tour and go look at all the occult artwork. Why is there occult artwork at the Department of Justice? It shows, by the way.

1:25:08Because they take their religion seriously. We might not take our religion seriously, but they take it seriously. The bad guys take their religion quite seriously. And they have a religion. They have a god. Their god isn't our god. Their god is the anti and the inverse of our god. but they absolutely have a religion. Their occult artwork is everywhere. It's mortifying. And when you get the tour, you can probably find the pictures online. So that's what we're up against. What's on the dollar bill? Yeah, well, some of that, the occult symbolism is a complicated one because we had Jonathan Pajos and it was interviewed for Meaning.

1:25:49And I was like, I'm like, ever since with ayahuasca, I'm like obsessed with what is a serpent? mean because under the kind of the mainline protestant understanding the serpent tempted eve the serpent is bad the snakes are evil serpent's not good it's more complicated than that so and he's an orthodox christian so he he wrote an article the serpents of orthodoxy where he goes because there's there was a staff with two serpents moving around there you know there's dna there was even before the the double helix structure of dna was discovered there was uh two serpents wrapped around that was sort of for sure what was understood um you know ayahuasca the cosmic serpent a lot of people see serpents and that you know that's a whole other you've seen serpents while doing ayahuasca i felt felt it like moving through me just like flowing flowing through me serpents snake oh yeah yeah yeah so that doesn't i mean i'm i'm no shaman but that doesn't sound good well that's what sent you on these like quests so so we wouldn't be having this conversation if i because for one thing you know for christians ayahuasca is like strictly forbidden so i don't i don't want to seem like I'm glamorizing it in any way, shape, or form, but I have gone on multiple ayahuasca journeys over the years, and for me, it's been completely transformed my heart.

1:27:20It's transformed how I see my children. It's the way I interact with the world that got me interested in Christianity again because—so the thing is, God can meet you wherever you are, which is why there is good and evil. So it isn't to say there's no such thing as good and evil, but God can meet you wherever you are and God can go anywhere and meet you wherever you are. So in my case, I was not someone who, I never had any kind of faith because I never felt anything. I would go to church and I grew up very Christian and I would like try to feel it. I was like, what do these people have? Like, there's just not, there's just isn't it.

1:28:00What is it that they feel? Like, is everybody in on something that i'm not in on is everybody faking like i'm faking because i don't believe anything and that was because i had no whatever whatever six cents people have for god i didn't have i didn't have the god gene and then i remember you know first time drinking tea and being catapulted to the spirit world and i was like okay the spirit world is real that's okay that's not even up for debate now to the point where it doesn't even offend me when people are atheists or don't believe in i was like well i didn't believe in it either i had to see it with my own eyes you know paul he had to be knocked over you know blinded yeah he had so for me that was like my my paul moment where i was like okay well somehow i ended up here drinking tea with no belief at all in god or the spiritual realm at all and now i absolutely know it's real and went through a number of things.

1:29:00And I don't know if you want to go into all that, but - I do. Like, why'd you do ayahuasca in the first place? For the wrong reason, which was for the ride. You know, what Hunter Thompson said, buy the ticket, take the ride. Yeah. So many people just sit around ruminating all day or daydreaming all day. Maybe I'll do this, maybe I'll do this. I've always been a, just buy the ticket, take the ride. What's it like? Buy the ticket, take the ride. So I thought, well, I mean, know, I'd done a lot of things in life before and I felt like I, I felt like I was pretty sure of myself that I knew how to live and was arrogant in a lot of ways.

1:29:34And I thought, well, you know, I've done everything else. Like might as well just do ayahuasca, you know, by everything else, I don't mean drugs. I just mean like, I was so full of myself and my own ego that I just thought I knew so much about life. And I was such a wonderful person that obviously I would just do this because that's what people who are so, you know, so great, so great do, right? I'm so great. I'll just do this like other thing and it like broke my heart broke my heart over and over again the whole night just like broke my heart and so the way the way it works is you're you know you drink the tea and you just kind of like look around okay I think that's a mistake and then you sort of like you kind of like start to fall under and you venture to the spirit world but you don't it's not like you're here and I'm walking around la la la I'm in the spirit world you're taken to a place where you have no free will you have no power you are more insignificant than an insect on this world and you start to journey and you know experience racing so so one i'll give you an example because it's kind of hard to explain but i remember like i'm drinking the tea and and sometimes you have like a little bit of a light show when you when you go in you go into the spirit world you hear like a buzzing sound like bees and then you see like a little bit of light a little vapor on the side like and then you get the dmt sort of light show that people associate with a psychedelic experience that's the least significant part of the night but a lot of times you start to get the light show and you think oh okay i'm into somewhere but there's a sense of like there's me and i'm into something and you know you go through there and then you become completely disoriented you you wake up and you look you know where am i at first where am i so i remember i woke up i go where i look around because you know you're laying down you can't walk around you're laying down.

1:31:38I look up and I go, where am I? Where am I? Where am I? I go, oh yeah, I'm Mike Cernovich. And I'm in this place. I'm on this mat and I got dropped off. And then I walked in here and I saw this person and then I came and I drank the tea. Okay, cool. It's like you're reassuring yourself. Close my eyes. Wake up. Where am I? Oh, I'm Mike Cernovich. I'm in this room. And I came in. Oh yeah, I got dropped off. I'm doing ayahuasca. Okay, cool. Okay, cool. Close eyes Wake up Mike Cernovich Where am I Close my eyes Wake up I'm Where am I Wake up What the fuck Dead Dead There is no I Dead Dead And as I'm falling down Into like wherever I'm falling into I see like my kids surface and my wife surface and I was for all purposes dead I was overwhelmed with the feeling that I was dead it's like I'm dying I'm dead there was no I I'm there wasn't even an I who's experiencing I'm dead and then like all I could think of was like are my kids gonna be okay is my wife gonna be okay are people gonna be okay how is that so foolish how was i so foolish how how i was so i remember like when i funded my kids like college fund i was like okay like my kids are set like i can die you know like what do i need to be around for like because i grew up poor like then you learn that's your own trauma and everything i was like okay like my kids are good my wife's good like everybody's good you know everybody's good i got they're me taking care of whatever happens to me you know because part of this is like you know knowing that you could be killed or framed any day.

1:33:33And I'm like, okay, everybody be okay. And I remember I'm dying. I just heard a voice say, you fool. You fool. They're not okay. They're not okay because of money? Because you set up money? Like, they're not okay. What is wrong with you? And I was just left with this sense of, I just, I'm a fool and I live my life foolishly and I can't believe that I was such a fool and I'm dead now and it's like too late and then eyes close and I wake up and then I'm like puking in a bucket like you know so they call like a spiritual purge and I remember being like oh god I'm still alive I'm still alive like looking around you know like looking at this bucket like I'd never been you know everybody's afraid of throwing up on ayahuasca i'm like oh you will that will be the best part of the night that will be that you will be thanking god that you're alive like you know throwing up in a bucket and i was like oh god okay i'm alive alive and then but then that's just like that was five minutes that was just five minutes and then you like go back under and then it's like another thing another catharsis like another like time loop so i remember i get up and i look around and there's this woman walking around and she's carrying the buckets because you know people are throwing up and everybody's sick and you just you have kind of the the shaman guy or facilitator and then you have like the helper there's this person you know she's walking around and she's carrying a bucket carrying i wake up and i look and i go oh there she is carrying the bucket and then close my eyes you come back up time loop so time loop means like i'm reliving this moment with you and i remember reliving this moment with you but i'm like stuck in it like groundhog day time loop and that's the first time it happened to me and that's a real like mind fuck so i get up and like oh she's like carrying things okay she's cleaning up after people and then i thought you know how nice fall fall asleep wake back up i go man look at she's like so helpful and I couldn't do that.

1:35:53Like I couldn't clean up after puke on other people. I just, I don't know how they do this. And then I wake up and I'm in the time loop again. I'm like, what, what, like, why am I in this time loop? You know? And like, you start to feel like you're going insane. Like, why am I stuck in this time loop? And I close my, and I put up and it goes, said, you don't even know her name. You never introduced yourself to her. You didn't talk to her. You don't talk to people. You just look through people. You don't get to know people. you're so arrogant this person is doing something you could never do because you don't have the humility you're so you could never clean up after other people you don't give a shit you don't give a shit this and but you'd even like look this person in the eyes and just say like hey you know what's your name like how'd you how'd you get here you just came in here to drink your tea selfishly like the arrogant prick that you are and because you wanted to take the ride you know you want to take the ride and you're just a bad person i was like what the fuck you know and then so that was more or less my night and you see demons at one point over and over again oh yeah that was so you can see d so you can see demons i remember being taunted so so that's what's weird about it is it's like it's like scenes of a movie with generally there's a catharsis you don't know that's why they just say before you go in they go the only way out is through you're like i'll go fuck yourself the only way out is through what kind of shit is that the only way out is through what the fuck does that mean you know again that was my arrogance and my own delusion and that's true in life though yeah yeah and i was just and you're like what does that mean well it means that no matter how bad it is with the ayahuasca i remember i would i would you know i would do mask and then i would open up the mask and try to look around and a demon at whatever it is entity says oh you think you're gonna open your eyes and it just showed me like the most fucked up things i've ever seen people being tortured to death killed like horror like the road have you ever seen the movie the road no like a cannibal like a horror film and then it said oh you think you can take your eye mask off you can't run you're running from yourself you're trying to run from yourself and you can never run for yourself like what am i running from then i'm like what am i running from what what do you mean i'm running because if you talk to me at that point in my life you would be talking to a very cocksure you'd not be talking to this person you would be talking to a person who's like oh yeah i got things figured out man like i got things figured out and i can prove it i grew up poor i've had some things happened that haven't been so good in my life.

1:38:32I've had to navigate life with a bipolar mom. Like I know life. You talk to me now, I'm like, I mean, I have ideas, you know, things that I think are like the path forward, but that person was just shown you are in the spirit realm. You are nothing. You are nothing. And you're so arrogant. You're out here. You like you have no power so this says you're running from yourself and i was like what am i running from and it goes all that success you chased and all the whatever whatever it is i was trying to do they go that was just masking your heart your your your the the trauma the trauma that you have and that everything you're doing is just to mask that like that's bullshit you know that doesn't make any sense so it's like okay because you're because you're and by this i mean i'm you're talking to a guide so when i'm saying this this is not like an internal monologue this is you're talking to something outside of yourself it's like dante's infernal like the guide and the guide said okay you know big mouth you want to argue like we'll just vortex you back and uh the spirit realm so then it's like you close your eyes that's why i'm like it's like and seeing you're like oh you're like you're in like a new scene and then like it shows you something from like when you were a child or maybe in my case it was like something from when i was like a child that was remember it was like it was showing me it was showing me the house i grew up in and i was like why is it showing me the house like my house i grew up in this like small shitty house i hated it we had holes in the carpet like i was embarrassed to bring people over i was like why why am i being shown my house what like i hate that fucking house i hate this fucking house why are you showing me this house and then it and then like voice is like you had all the love in the world in that house your dad loved you your mom loved you they did the best that they could do and you think that you can just like give your kids money because that's your own thing you know like well you grew up poor so but it's like you took the love for granted you just like you had all this love but you didn't have money so then that becomes your hang-up like oh do i have enough and like well if my kids have enough what do you need what do you need me for you know like what's that for it was was like all the love in the world was in the house and you hated that house and you'd like you'd even know it i was like oh fuck you know so like i always loved my dad and had a good relationship i was like oh my god like it was like and what was it like for your dad to be poor like not know how to make a what was that like for him you know and you're just like oh fuck you know like he was poor too you guys were just poor that was like the town lost the factory and people were jobless and that's just every kid's dad went through the same thing you worked at a factory and then you had to find some other kind of shitty job and you kind of find something else and then eventually my dad figured it out by then I was like in high school so it didn't really impact my life either way and then I was like oh fuck I have all this I have all these issues around money just in a way that's like traumatic you know not just in a way that you know people need money to live and you want to be greedy and but i like i had no idea and i never would i never would like reach that conclusion emotionally and then and then you're like zooming out and it's just like oh it's like there's like love it's the the love of your family the love that god has for you and then and i was like fuck okay so then i close eyes like you wake back up and it's like look it was literally like an old grandfather or something like something out of Gandalf or something and it's like look and it goes it's like in a very calming like masculine voice it says it's not supposed to be this way it was just like he was like doing this he's like it's not supposed to be this way and I look and like like I said I'm laying down and I look and I see this Gandalf like figure floating and like I was like it's not supposed to be this way I was like what's not supposed to be this way and then he just showed all the the light it's like the lights are all separate now you're supposed to be together it's supposed to be communion it's supposed to be that everyone's you know loving each other and you just want to like kill each other he goes this this is not how it's supposed to be it was like it was like a frustrated dad who was like this is like this is not how it's supposed to be this is not how it's supposed to be okay you know this is so above my pay grade you know I don't even know like and that's how I know it's not coming for me I'm like if I could come up with stuff like this people would think I was a genius you know this is not my brain and I'm so smart and then I like go back under and then I come back up I hear this like scream and it was like the scream of an enraged mom mom basically screaming at like the same situation so then you know it takes years to put all this together and everything but that was like showing me the masculine the logos and the the way like a father governs and then like the rage of a mom and the children like are not getting together and you know the tension of the tension of male and female and then i like i saw an old woman's face on a mountain i was like i don't even know where this is from i never read any books before this and that's pachamama so that's a different kind of entity so in that case i saw like whatever whatever pachamama was the you know mother earth or whatever and paganism that people describe it as so i'm just going you know back and forth between flashbacks to my life wait so you saw a demon that others identified a woman's head in a mountain yeah yeah pachamama i had no idea yeah i didn't i didn't do my research before going in so i'd know like i so what you're saying is these are definitely not parts of your subconscious that rose to the surface they're there yeah they're unless it's a parabola to unconscious as you know there's a theory that that that our unconscious is generating our experience in real time but it's not it wasn't me it wasn't a book i read it was because i was again like atheist so every rationalistic argument they could say well you probably just like no i never studied aztec culture and incan culture but i know what pachamama was and so there was they're like they're external entities so the the older figure you could say maybe well that was uh the guardian and you read dante's inferno in high school right that was some thing and you're unconscious so that surface but pachamama and other kind of entities were not so beyond my cultural understanding or my my knowledge so yeah so then you're going like you're going back into that and like you go through it really i mean it's not a pleasurable there aren't a lot of ayahuasca addicts right it's true and it's not covered by medicaid No, which is a good thing because I don't know.

1:46:09You don't want some fly-by-night shaman or you end up with the wrong situation. It's all in Mexico, right? A lot of things can go bad. They're different areas. South Africa, I'd done it before. How many times have you done it? Nine, ten times. Actually? Yeah. Oh, yeah. there it because it's just you go in and the i had a lot of i had a lot of i mean i like i had a i had a lot of things that i had to beat out of me i used to like just like we're earlier we're talking about how you you know a certain amount of stoicism we all have which like i think is good and i think therapeutic culture goes too far where you don't want to sit around and like talk about how bad it was being a kid but a lot of us and i learned this dealing with a lot of a lot of veterans have done plant medicine.

1:46:58I don't know if you've seen in Waves and War yet with Amber Marcus Capone, Amber Marcus Capone. They're amazing. So you have all these vets who were suicidal and then a lot of them do Ibogaine. They go down to Ibogaine Clinic. That's what vets is a charity I've sponsored or donated to for a number of years and vet solutions. And so with me, you realize that a lot of what we do that we think of as virtuous is we're trying to hide something from ourselves. We're trying to make it so that we can't be vulnerable. And so with veterans especially, they find out a lot of things that happened when they were kids.

1:47:44And that's why they became the men they were because you're driven by the sense that I'll never be weak and powerless again. right i'll never be weak and powerless again which that's a good thing you shouldn't be weak and powerless but if you have all this other stuff underneath that then maybe you don't love your kids the way you're capable of or maybe you're afraid to love your kids and wife the way you are because maybe you're you are afraid to be hurt and that's another aspect i think where therapy culture has taken things too far where you're like oh let's like talk about our trauma like all day and relive things whereas not like but maybe for a weekend you know yeah maybe spend a weekend and talk about it and figure it out then and and work through it don't you don't have to like live it so i just i had so many lessons on how how it's just a fool basically it's just a fool well that sounds i mean i mean i love that my concern is if the demons are real aren't you afraid they'll enter you that's that's the big debate right Sarah from Rose wrote a book the soul after death so if you talk to Josiah Trenum he would just say well this is demonic and this pharmakia and absolutely like absolutely not that's kind of my instinct it wouldn't even be a debate yeah what there's there's really like no debate to be had and my my position is I always warn people away from it because it's a monumental undertaking.

1:49:15It's not just something that, oh, yeah, we'll go eat some shrooms and go take a hike in nature. Right. It's not in the same world. And a lot can go wrong and it can disrupt a person's life. Well, I've seen that. Yeah. Too. With – People's lives being destroyed by heavy-duty hallucinations. Like in what way? a friend who killed himself um was from lsd but you know yeah wrecked relationships yeah lsd lsd is poisonous that they can cause a lot of issues and the that's why it's more more or less like if you're the like the guys especially at vets and amber and marcus and i'm work with these are guys that are going to kill themselves and they're alcoholics most likely we're not we're not talking like, oh, I'm living like life is great and I'm living in a state of love.

1:50:08I'm going to go drink ayahuasca this weekend. It's more like, or in my case where you're just being pushed there because I was living in such a state of folly and delusion that there was like no other way. So in my belief, I think God pushed me there. I think it was God and he showed me this is the only way that I can show you that you are just not who you think you are just a delusional fool and this is the only way that we're going to get through you yeah and the message like got through and then you know i have drank and you know had more tea since then but it's not something that i that i do regularly so what about the threat though of the demon entering you you said you had serpents inside you I should just say, I believe you.

1:50:59But, I mean, the consequences of being, I mean, the first missionary trip Jesus sends the disciples on, all he says is cast out demons. The whole New Testament, Jesus casting out demons, the disciples casting out demons. Like, that's completely real, in my opinion. Yeah, but the consequence of living my life, I was probably demon-possessed before the ayahuasca. because I was so I'd been deluded by dark forces into thinking that I was something that I wasn't yeah so in my view it isn't where oh I was such a holy person in my mind I would have thought I was yeah no it's like the opposite where like whatever I was before that I'm not that way now and whatever path I'm on is like about God and Christianity and like trying you know finding more love in the world and divine communion and just knowing that you're just not like a, you're just not a paycheck to your kids, you know?

1:52:00And I didn't even treat them like I was just a paycheck, but it was just some, it was, I would just, it was a glibness that I had. So it's just the, the, the ayahuasca has just burned out all the glibness that I had where I can't even laugh at things sometimes. I'm just like, I just, that's just not funny. I'm in a way I'm like too serious. It's like, why are you laughing? It's a very non-American approach. This is just not funny. Trump is so fun. I don't care. Fuck fun. I hate fun. What do you mean fun? We don't get to have fun on this world. Fun? You want to have fun? What are you, a little kid?

1:52:33Right? So it's driven all of that out of me in a way that I couldn't have reached intellectually. How does it make you feel about death? Well, one, I know there's a judgment. I don't think there's a judgment. I know there's a final judgment. For sure. Really? So for me, it's not even - I think you're right. But what convinced you of that? Because I just was in the spirit world. I saw my divine judgment. And my divine judgment was hell. You know, that was like my divine judgment. And so one is I just, I know there's a final judgment to the point where when people say, oh, you're whatever, crazy or whatever, I don't even get offended.

1:53:16I'm just like, brother, I was, that was me. I was you. I was you before this. So how can I be upset with you for thinking this when that was what I thought? Before then, so like, I know there's a final judgment. I know the accounting is in the human heart. It's not the words. It's not in what you say. It's not in how holy you can be and how you can tell everybody else they're not holy and you're, you know, you're Mr. Holier than thou and everybody else is a sinner. It's your, it's the human heart is going to be weighed and measured by God. In my opinion, it's Jesus Christ. And, you know, in my opinion, it's Christianity and Jesus Christ.

1:53:52But I'm not into the apologetics where we argue in mind all day about like what it is. I think the human heart is going to be weighed. That's something that God's going to determine at the judgment. I know that I'm accountable for everything. And I know having died, like for all purposes, like I have died. I have died. and I know that when you die, the only thing you're going to think about is the people you left behind. So all of this materialism and, oh no, somebody I'm being picked on today on the internet or I'm being canceled again or this and that, like none of that came up. Actually, one funny thing that came up was during one of my journeys, I was under and I saw some things, I came up and it goes, whatever, it, it, whatever.

1:54:47That's what I mean. I don't know what it is. I still understand it. It says, you know how blessed you are that you've been like attacked and everything? They go, you can talk about anything. That's right. Doesn't matter. People are just like, oh, wow. Certainly if it talks about ayahuasca, we fucking knew he was crazy anyway. You know, like this is probably the least crazy thing that he's like said all week. whereas if I were more of like legitimate and respectable then I would have to think well how's this going to play how's this going to play should I talk about this should I tell Tucker are people going to clip this up and make fun of me what is this going to impact my standing with the administration and all the serious people in the world are they gonna none of that comes up all that came up was arm are is my family going to be okay that's the only thing that I could think about.

1:55:37So then you go from there. Well, are they, have you loved them? Do they know you love them? Do you tell them that every day? Are you saying your prayers like every night? Because tomorrow's not promised. I could be in a car right now, flip over and die in a second. People die all the time in a second. We take it for granted. Charlie Kirk is dead. Charlie Kirk is dead. That hurt me too. That hurt me bad. I haven't cried so much in the past three months in my whole life. And I don't care to admit I've cried about it you know I think that's a problem people have is oh you know we don't it's like I don't know whatever real man is I think I'm pretty pretty high up there and I've been crying more in the past few months than I have my whole life combined and you realize like Charlie just died he just went went to work he's dead his kids don't see him they're not with him at Christmas we're on the internet arguing about fucking Tyler Robinson and was it the Mossad or was it that charlie's kids they don't have a christmas with them anymore they don't have a christmas with them erica goes home to an empty house and then she goes on the internet and everybody's just saying the worst things in the world about her she's not even my friend but she's a mom there's the worst things in the world about her that and they had christmas without their dad what's that like what's it like to have christmas without your dad a lot of people go through that so do my do my kids know this might be our last christmas together but i'm gonna be here I'm gonna try to make it home.

1:57:03But if I don't make it home, you know, I love you You know, I love you. You know that you're my world and that i'm obsessed with you And they never for a minute. They never for a minute have to wonder What like does dad love us is dad, you know, is dad good to us? Nobody my life I text my friends the most dopey shit, you know, like love you, man. Just thinking about you Just thinking about you I never never did that before just the dopiest like most sentimental stuff that you can imagine. Hope you're okay. Like, think about all your friends and how all of us have these man friends that we're all so, you know, manly man.

1:57:36When's the last time somebody's just like, hey, bro, I hope you're okay. Just thinking about you. That's nothing. I'm not poetry, but I just, oh, I haven't talked to this guy in a couple months. I'm sure he's doing fine. Maybe he's not doing fine, though. Maybe he's not. Why do we think everybody's doing fine? Right? Why? Fair. That's our delusion. That's the fallacy. Everybody, the folly. Everybody's doing fine. And then you don't reach out and then you go, oh, well, I wish I'd have seen it coming. You know, maybe you would, maybe you wouldn't have. So I meditate on death. I think about it every day.

1:58:09Every day I meditate on it. And it gives me a sense of calming, if that makes any sense. That's exactly right. Avoiding death is what makes you neurotic. Facing it makes you calm, gives you peace. Because that's the root of all fear, obviously, is the fear of dying. The fear of death and the fear of status and the fear of the egoistic attachments that we got through our names, our reputations. How did it affect your relationship with your wife? Just like, I'm like obsessed with my wife. Like, I'm just a simp for my wife. Which, you'd have to ask her, but I don't know that she would have said that was true, you know, or maybe necessarily like early on.

1:58:50I'm like, all I think about is my wife and kids. Like, if I make money, like, I don't even care. I just, like, get rid of it, you know? Get it to them. Like, people are like, oh, aren't you worried about your wife, like, leaving you or your kids? I'm like, I don't care. I mean, I really, like, I don't care. You mean signing all your money over to your wife? Yeah, yeah. You should do that. Yeah, I mean, I did. That's the right thing. No, there's a lot of peace in that, too. Totally. It's like, you're going to get blood from a turnip. Come after me. I've lived it. You're very, very disappointed when you start tipping me upside down and maybe you get a few quarters out of the pocket.

1:59:23So it's made me just completely obsessed with her and the kids. It's made me – like I've gotten much nicer even online than I used to be because you just think so much of it is – I'm not perfect because people can – I mean, my God. I wouldn't even say I'm good, let alone perfect. but you just realize like maybe that guy's just having a bad day you know the guy cuts you off that's right i'm mad i'm honking at him i'm gonna fight maybe that guy's kid's dead dude maybe his kid is in the hospital and now i'm just adding so i'm always about like i don't want to add to the trauma burden of the world what what like who knows what other people and that doesn't mean i'm gonna let people walk all over me and everything but who knows what people are going through man you just like you never know so i think i think about that all the time like i don't have like i don't have any doubts that my kids know where we stand my friends know where we stand the people who aren't my friends know where we stand because i don't have time for like fake love and fake pleasantries and everything it's either like like it's real or it's not it's not real there's just no point why even why even go into that middle space and i just my love for my dad which was always very strong was like even stronger my empathy for my dad my mom you know because you think about what you always think about what they did right to you because we're the center of our own story because you have to be or you can't live i'm not i'm not diminishing that but then once you start thinking about like what happened to them what happened to them that got them right here And then suddenly you're like, yeah, man, whatever.

2:01:06My problems are my problems are what I went through and what I went through. But everybody has gone through that. Everybody's going through something. And then as that expands, I think that's meaning. And I think that's how you connect more with God because that's the divine communion. Empathy is part of the divine communion. That's why charity is part of the divine communion. That's why these are all taught by Christ. even people who don't believe in him see the the logic in it is you're it's just it's communion with the divine and the better we are to each other the more in touch we are with the the divine and the more that we fight and we bicker and we squabble and in the case of war we kill each other the further the further away we are from god you know scott adams quite well he's facing death sounds like no no that's why i've been crying i've been telling you i've just been crying you know i saw some video shauna sent me a video and he's like you know a lot of people don't know this but when i was just starting off like mike cernovich like really helped me out and really boosted and which is true but i was like he's on his deathbed he's thinking about other people and i'm wrapped up in my own yeah bullshit aren't we all every day yeah so he you know charlie's dead scott's dead we're all getting older you know there's tragedy all around us every day and you want to start thinking about your own life and not that we don't already so with scott adams dying that's like a huge loss i was again i i'd leave my house because i was crying i was like not that i'm afraid to cry in front of my kids but they'd be like why are you crying dad who's you know it's just like i just gotta i just gotta take a walk and i'm just walking and i'm like which is another thing too i liked about that i couldn't cry before i want you to like hold it in, you know?

2:02:54You hold it in, and once you get good at working with the plant medicine, you learn it's just a wave, man. It's just a wave. Let the waves flow. Why are we so afraid? Like, why are we so afraid to cry by ourselves, right? Like, why? If you're in a room by yourself and things are surfacing, whether you're with the plants or not with the plants, who's there to look at you other than God? What are you afraid of? I don't know. What are we afraid of? That is scary. That's the ego in us that keeps us alive but also enslaves us. That's the part that desires the illusion of control. So when you're letting things go, you have to surrender control for a minute.

2:03:35You do have to lose your shit for a minute. And then that part of the egoism wants to fight against that and wants to feel like I don't do this. Yeah, be dignified. we don't do this like we don't cry it's like well i mean i don't think it's healthy to cry around your wife all the time right it's not right i'm not a good idea yeah i'm not saying walk around and like we're don't cry in front of your wife all the time we're weepy you know we're weepy all the time but that's the recipe for celibacy yeah yeah that's that's not that's not an ideal thing but like when my wife had a miscarriage i like i cried the hell out of that i just in my office by myself and i cried and then i you know what i noticed i started talking to people or I you know I wrote about it they're like oh I had a miscarriage I was like why does nobody talk about this I know you can't talk about it that felt like a kid died I was not even pro-life at that point I was like yeah politically kind of am and when we had that miscarriage my kid died my kid is dead and from that I was like oh pro-life you know I just I just was an idiot I didn't really understand that's such a common story though you hear from people yeah but the people don't talk about it well you're right yeah that's another thing and then everybody's walking around holding everything in they're like why are people getting drunk why are people doing opioids why are people well why do you think because they're just like holding on to it and then then they want to mask the feelings as they bubble up so they find alcohol or they find drugs or they find pornography or they the devil loves that that's that's the thing too where I go back and forth on the demonic thing with ayahuasca.

2:05:12I was telling a friend about this, actually. I told a friend. And he goes, what are you doing this weekend? I was like, oh, I'm doing some fasting, and I'm going to do ayahuasca retreat. He's like, ayahuasca, that sounds dangerous and scary. And I go, where are you going? He's like, I'm going to Vegas. And I go, that sounds dangerous and scary to me. Well, you're going to be amongst the drunks, and you might get hit by a drunk driver, and you might drink too much and find yourself in a strange bed. that to me that's where the devil wants you I agree because if you start looking at like with the ayahuasca thing even having some experience with it I'm talking myself out of it until the minute that I drink the tea up until that very second that I drink the tea I'm thinking of every excuse in the world to not drink it because I don't want to drink it I don't want to do it but if 10 years ago you said hey do you want to go take some shots of vodka and other things I'm like oh yeah that sounds like a great time of course so then you have to that's where the discernment comes in and that's where it becomes a heavier question well why is it that i want to do things that we know we're a sin that we know we're damaging and i want to i'm excited for that but i don't want to do this thing that is like demonic with all of my being i do not if the i do not want to ever drink ayahuasca for the rest of my life.

2:06:30I do not want to. That doesn't mean I won't, but I don't want to. But why though? Why don't I want to? Well, it's because of the spiritual awakening or the spiritual reckoning that happens and the realizations, which fundamentally I think have made me more, again, I don't want to say a good person, but it certainly made me change my life and live differently. Have there been any downsides? You got to be comfortable with spiritual, spiritual confusion would be one so i have a certain there's a certain like weight now that i have you ever hear that expression like the unbearable lightness of being of course and it's like very california thing and everybody's all about lighten up man you know chill out you should like learn to relax and i do and a friend of mine who found the medicine after i did remember we were hanging out he came out to one cigar and he goes mike i was like yeah what's up brother what's up he goes i don't know how to say this he goes but since drinking ayahuasca and he's a christian he plays in his band you know in the he plays guitar in a band at church every sunday he goes so i don't know how to say i go oh you're like really spiritually confused right he goes yes and i go what do you think i like know the answer he's like He goes, all I'm thinking about is like, am I doing the right thing?

2:07:55There's a confusion, but like in a good way where I think that a lot of people think, well, I'm a Christian. I'm saved. I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior. Once saved, always saved. And then I'll just sort of live my life and maybe go to church and try to be a good person or whatever. But you feel like I'm a Christian. Like I've checked the box. whereas when you with the medicine i think it's the opposite where you're just on any moment you're just waging against whatever sin the darkness and you're just like i don't know man i i believe but i don't i don't really know what's going to happen i i hope i you know i hope i'm doing the right things and that level of spiritual confusion i think is not meant for everyone so i don't think most people are i think almost nobody should should drink ayahuasca i think almost no one should i think it's only something that if a person feels like they're going to do it anyway and no amount of persuasion for me is going to work then that's something to talk about but i don't think people should should dabble in this kind of stuff really but if you're a vet and you're like looking at the bottom of a bottle of jack daniels you got a gun next to you let's get you to mexico you know let's get you to peru like that's that's a whole different have you ever known anyone who's been made worse by it we're worse is worse is a hard way of putting it because people go through phases so i've what happens with some people unfortunately is because you are getting quote-unquote like downloads from the universe people do kind of chase that download of the universe dragon versus like the hard work of living in life right so drinking ayahuasca once you kind of have a hang of it it's never easy but it's like you put on your space suit and you kind of know you know you kind of know like you drink it and you can feel it moving through you and your hands start to feel like you have carpal tunnel and right when you feel like you can sort of stretch out and you're like, oh yeah, the medicine's about to hit.

2:10:07And you can't direct the experience in an active way, but you sort of know what you're getting into. The first couple of times, God help you. And what people will do then is rather than undertake the hard work of being alive, the hard work is here. The realizations that I had change how I live here. But the hard work is still like, I don't know, this is a great talk. I'm gonna leave here. I'm like, I think that was a good talk. and then I'm going to be wrapped up about some business thing, or mad about something that somebody did to me, or wondering about some uncertain thing, and then the demons come in and kind of steal your joy.

2:10:50So the hard work is here, and planet Earth. Why are we here? That again goes to the meaning of life question. Take the Garden of Eden story, for example. even if it's not real why was it written i mean if it's not real it was written as a metaphor i suppose why though to tell us about the nature of god and man that's one yeah but i think it's this is not our home yeah right we just we know we don't we know we don't belong here right the the garden of eden is whatever this is this is not like we were whether we were cast out of eden because we listened to the serpent and we rejected god whether that's literal that's a metaphor the the underlying feeling is that we are aliens on this planet yeah however we got here is a different question the new testament says that a lot and we're just like stuck in these like bodies that don't want to cooperate and that want to lead us to things that we on a spiritual level maybe don't want to do so so that the only real downside that i've seen from people who have done the plant medicine although there are bad stories like they're like i after i had a really big night and the guy said you know if you're thinking about leaving your wife call me first and I go I love my wife more than ever I was like it actually would be the opposite he goes okay he goes but you had a big night so what happens is a lot of times that people have a big night the facilitator or shaman guy isn't good or he's fly by night and you're just like oh I realize I'm not living the way I'm supposed to and they just like up in their life yeah I know someone who did Yeah.

2:12:40So that is 100 % a risk. And that's why I'm always hesitant to talk about it because I don't want to seem like I'm glamorizing it. Like when I talk about ayahuasca, I want it to sound kind of like foreboding. Maybe you shouldn't do this. You probably shouldn't do this. You probably shouldn't. You might just blow up your whole life. You probably shouldn't do it to avoid people going in and saying, it's like, no, bro, you were just bored. right you were just bored and now you like destroyed your whole life and the real the real work is the homework the homework is this what we got to do here the downloads in the universe might feel great at the time or you might feel like you have all this insight and connection to a super intelligence a superpower but you're still back here on planet earth so why don't you spend more time here in this body and playing earth and figuring out the the best way to live your life has the experience made you more aware of like the spiritual realm around you day to day i see everything that spiritual realm yeah every i see everything as being interests entities trying to act upon humanity in some kind of cosmic war that we don't really understand but for whatever reason humans are a very important part of it now my belief again is the Orthodox Christian part, which is, like, I accept the Orthodox Christianity story as the true one, but I'm just, you know, I'm trying not to be a, you know, like I'm a priest because God, go to Josiah Trenum or someone if you want a priest, stay far away from me.

2:14:14Like, people ask me religious questions. I'm like, get away from me and find Josiah Trenum. I feel the same way. So far away from me, please. I have no standing. Yeah, yeah, get away. So I'm just saying, like, my own belief is that god created man we have bodies the demons envy us because they they can't be satiated they don't have bodies they hate us when they attack us that's their revenge against god so the demons are constantly trying to use us they can't be satiated how in what why why do you say that because they're floating around in a spirit they've been denied bodies so that they are roaming around like in a zombie kind of state.

2:14:54I always thought that one of the hallmarks of like hell on earth is the inability to be satiated, satisfied, full. Yes. Whether it's eating bad food or having the wrong kind of sex, it's like it's never enough or drugs or alcohol or - Insomnia. Yeah. Imagine, yeah. So they're walking around in insomnia and they hate us. They hate humans and they want to hurt us and they more importantly want us to hurt each other to harm God. That's how they see us. Because the demons think they're going to win. Remember, like, if you're a Christian, we say, well, we know how the story ends. God wins in the end, right?

2:15:31The demons don't believe that, though. We believe that. They don't believe it. So they believe that they can turn us against each other. They can get us to hurt each other. They can, like a lot of demons, enter people through traumatic experiences. Yes, clearly. They believe they're going to win. This is not, and their minds, they are the winners in the end. They're going to win. So they want to use us to get us to harm each other because they see that as harming God more than anything else. So we're constantly being acted upon. So I'm constantly like praying for discernment, discernment, discernment, discernment, discernment.

2:16:08Am I being manipulated? Am I being led astray? Because, I mean, on a political level, I've been played before by people, by sources, not knowing it. oh me too and then i find out a lot yeah yeah so i'm so like when people tell me things like oh here's the truth about the venezuela raid or here's the truth about israel or here's the truth about palestine it's like discernment am i just being played because everybody wants you you know especially at your level that's what i was telling telling you guys earlier like i thank the lord above that i am not you that i'm not russell brand that i am not tim pool that i am not any of you guys because i'm so weak and pathetic i couldn't imagine if i had your guys yeah it's not you can say that you can brush it off but um i have so many dogs and children that it's like i don't even notice but uh all right i make myself not notice but no but i think anyone who's in a position where other people listen to him is under particularly fierce attack constant no just imagine that the text like jd is that's right imaginable just like unreal um because even sometimes i'm like yeah i'll see something you said like i don't i don't agree with that and i go man i'm not gonna be another guy texting tucker nagging him about please do nagging him about something but no so i so there is the risk that as you've seen happen a person is kind of an ayahuasca tourist they go in they go oh my whole life has been a lie and therefore i'm just gonna like blow up my whole life don't do that like and if the person you're with is not if the shaman or whatever the facilitator is not telling you like don't do that then then you're in the wrong place but other but other than that and people getting caught in the the trap of downloads i've seen like the biggest baddest men on the planet that just want to like hug their kids and they went from ptsd and staring off into the void and drinking and fighting with their wives and riding motorcycles too fast just for a rush and because frankly like maybe they maybe it is a death wish of course it is right and then you take away responsibility because you go oh i just got in a crash.

2:18:26I didn't kill myself. Like some pussy, you know, I just got in a wreck, but really they're trying to kill themselves and just become like, it's actually pretty, it's actually changed my view on a lot of this, like real men don't cry and you see all this bravado. And I'm like, dude, I've cried with the Delta Force guy. I've cried with the SEAL Team 6 guy. You are not more, whatever your definition of manly is, you are like not more, if you ever see like Marcus Capone is like this you are not more manly than Marcus Capone or DJ Shipley or any of these other guys that that's like for sure so they're so I at the very least I do hope it because again I don't want people to listen to this go to ayahuasca it's an immense that would be immensely damaging for somebody to do that based on what I'm saying to me I don't want him to do it that wouldn't be a nice thing to do to me but I do hope that people can say yeah what's the big deal like I'm by myself in a room and I'm praying and I cry why am I holding that who cares right and then find that find that part ego is the reason I think you're exactly right so last question we were in a period of we're in a huge change period of course and one of the qualities of it is chaos it's just a chaotic moment it's hard to understand especially if you're you know 50 and you've been watching this stuff your whole life it's like all of a sudden this weren't this is a departure how much of that chaos is like spiritual it always has been i mean you remember that song sympathy for devil rolling stone of course what if that's not a song what if that's real right what is real right so in in my view that the the jacobin terror the bolshevik revolution the spanish civil war what's happening in ukraine yeah it's all the same it's all part of the same strain so i think that we because again you're born into a certain period of time and then we tend to overweight the time that we're in and we see it maybe in a different color than it should be.

2:20:32We're not like your son isn't getting drafted in the Vietnam War. We're not getting drafted in the World War II. We're not getting drafted in the World War I. I think that in terms of, even though he's kind of a lamester, Steven Pinker is like better angels. I think we were on the trend towards a better world and we've seen that that's been upended, but that we're still in a good time. And what we do want to have as our North Star is preserving order, knowing that like we're going to have conflict but if we can find some kind of allyship or alliance and that means everybody has to pull their own weight then we shouldn't give in to the rancor and the infighting and I used to be an infighter and like infighting a lot and I've cut down on that by at least half it's a good New Year's resolution Mike Cernovich that didn't go in the direction I'd anticipated was much better and more interesting and deeper.

2:21:30Thank you. Thank you. My pleasure.