Tucker Puts Piers Morgan’s Views on Free Speech to the Ultimate Test

24:40I really believe that. Everything about it. It's religion, it's language, it's literature. We have, American societies never produce literature. I'm embarrassed to say like what the Brits produced. And so it was out of sadness and frustration and a sense of connection to your civilization that I went on the rant about how much I hate it. But it was hate born of frustrated love and concern. I'm just amazed you're here alive. I didn't think you'd get it. Well, they're so passive now and everyone's like bisexual. What are they going to do to me? Nothing. But I just want to add, and I know you love it.

25:16You're a product of it. What is it? How would you describe English culture?

25:22Piers Morgan:I would say it's not as bad as many Americans think it is. And it's not as good as many people here when they launch impassioned defenses of our country and our culture and the way things have gone. We'd like to pretend it is. It's kind of somewhere in the middle. There's definitely been a significant change in the fabric of the country, in the makeup of the country, in the types of people who've come here, the volume of people who've come here. That's obviously had an effect on what this country is. Now, the debate to be had is whether this has been in totality a force for good or bad. I took your views, your strident views about it when we met in Saudi.

26:04Piers Morgan:And I push back quite hard because I live here half of the year at least, most of that time in London. It's always been a very multicultural city. There's no doubt about that. And I don't walk the streets as Tommy Robinson would like to do. There has not always been a multicultural. I actually pulled the numbers. It is not very recent. Yeah, maybe right after you were born. In my lifetime. I was born in the mid-60s. But the way Tommy Robinson, who has a big following in America, the way he talks about it is not something I recognize. Having said that, as I've always said about him, there are issues that he's raised which are perfectly legitimate.

26:37Piers Morgan:The biggest one is population. You know, in the 50s, we had a population of just under 50 million people. And a lot of the infrastructure, like the National Health Service, the NHS, once lauded as the greatest health system in the world, now has to do with a population of nearly 70 million. That is a dramatic increase in the volume of people in this country. And the simple truth right now is our public services are creaking at the seams. and in some cases, like the NHS, pretty well at breaking point. And that is why there is so much agitation about the simultaneous ongoing issues with immigration, both illegal, with this ridiculous farce of these small boats popping up on the south coast from a channel from France, all the time, when the weather's good, they just stream in hundreds, sometimes thousands a week, illegally into the country, but also legal migration and how we've abjectly mishandled that since really the turn of the century.

27:33Piers Morgan:You can chart it back to the Tony Blair years when they pretty well opened the gates to everyone in Eastern Europe. Way too many people came in way too fast. And then after that, there's just been a complete lack of any form of control. And we now have a situation where they've had to try and put the brakes on legal migration coming in because two years ago we had a net migration in this country of nearly a million people. Now, it's not racist, as some people are trying to brand it, to say that that is alarming. A country like ours, if you don't have an effective border, if you have 50 ,000, 60 ,000 people a year coming in as they are illegally on these boats, and then you have a net migration of legal migrants coming in of nearly a million people, the already crumbling infrastructure is going to come under, obviously, enormously higher pressure.

28:25Piers Morgan:So it's been a series of governments, left and right, I have to say, starting with the Blair government, with what they did with Eastern Europe, and then coming forward to successive conservative governments, and now the current Labour government, all of whom, in my opinion, have handled this so badly that inevitably we now have a lot of people in the country going, what the hell is going on? I wonder, though, I mean, everything you said is so clearly true, and it was Tony Blair, really the lowest, probably tied with Boris, but really one of the worst prime ministers, leaders of any country ever.

28:57But I wonder, I often hear people say, well, it's about the NHS, National Health Service. It's about the roads. It's about, you know, NHS is like a very new creation. It's a post-war creation. It was never going to work. It's never worked anywhere. The Brits were so kind of pathetically proud of it, but it was the whole thing. It did work. But for a time, that always worked for a time.

29:18Piers Morgan:By the way, if you walk out of here and you fall over and you break your leg, you'll get treatment quickly. That's great. But the health outcomes were never better than the United States. It didn't actually work. But whatever, you could argue that. The cost of it. But what's so sad is that for your whole life, you've been told that what is Britain? What is this project about? It's about the National Health Service? That's kind of aiming a little low. Who cares about some bureaucratic structure? What about England? What about the culture? So in my mind, as a P.G. Woodhouse reader lifelong, self-restraint.

29:54duty, courage, patriotism rooted in your religious faith, our Lord the King, a phrase that was common until recently. All of that seems to be gone.

30:06Piers Morgan:Well, we're still a very majority Christian country, right? Still 40-odd percent of the country are Christians, right? That's a fact. So when I hear America - Whatever that means. I mean, you get arrested for praying outside an abortion clinic, that's not a Christian country. Well, okay, there are nearly 50 % of the country who identify as Christian. The more concerning thing for those who have faith is that nearly 40 % now have no religious belief whatsoever, right? Right. Then we have a lot of other religions. There's a slight amplification of, for example, the number of Muslims in the country.

30:42Piers Morgan:I agree. There are nearly 4 million Muslims in the country. And that represents about 6 % of the population. but 43 or 4 % of the population are still Christian. So I do think, again, that the over-amplification of the Islam problem, as people put it, or the Muslim problem, has been massively overstated. Well, that's an op, obviously. Yeah. Hate the Muslims. No, we know where that's coming from, obviously. I don't like it. I hate it. In my high street alone, in West London, most of the businesses would have Muslim employees there. But also, how is hate the Muslims better than hate the Christians or hate the Jews?

31:23It's not. It's all the same. No, it's the same.

31:24Piers Morgan:And I've heard you say, and this is the point I come from, hatred is hatred is hatred. I totally agree. It doesn't matter who you're hating. The moment you're in the hate game, then I think you're losing whatever argument it is you're trying to have. I totally agree. But moving off from hate and getting back to the world I live in, which is fear and distrust and gut-level loathing, it's the secular people who are the problem. I've never had an argument with a Muslim, with an actual Muslim. I'm from Bangladesh. I'm a Muslim. I'd probably agree on a lot. It's the secular self-hating whites that stand up from the table and leave when I'm eating with them here.

31:59Just saying. And that's true in my country, too. But believe it or not, I just sort of wonder. So I'm not hating on the Muslims at all. They're bad Muslims. They're bad everybody. I just think a country is more than its bureaucratic systems and certainly more than the NHS, which I will never think is impressive. Sorry. Or your metric system. I do think you're wrong about that.

32:20Piers Morgan:Maybe. You're not wrong about the state of it now. I'll give an example. What wouldn't have happened in the 60s and 70s with the NHS is what happened to both my parents recently. So my mother had a heart attack and ended up being put on a trolley in an accident and emergency unit, but out on the corridor with 30 other people on trolleys. It was Dickensian. This was like a third world country. Oh, yeah. and she got hardly any treatment at all while she was there. Now, when she eventually got up, and this is the apex of the NHS for me laid bare, when she eventually got into the heart unit, she got incredible treatment on the NHS, didn't cost her anything.

33:02Piers Morgan:She got fixed up and repaired. Turned out she had a blocked artery and she was home in 48 hours and was great. My father broke six ribs recently. Again, the same story, just waiting on trolleys and so on. This is going on all the time. because it cannot deal with the volume. We have the same problem in our country. All the community hospitals are closing, right? And our emergency rooms are unusable because of illegal immigration. I agree with you completely. I'm just saying if you have a country whose main source of pride is it's like healthcare system. I don't think it is. Really? Because in the 50 years I've been coming here, no matter what you say, they're like, have you heard about our healthcare system?

33:36It's like, I thought you were about the greater glory of God and like subduing the world for civilization and the English language and our literature and history.

33:44Piers Morgan:I certainly think we're about, listen, we'd certainly, I checked a few stats on the way here. Yeah. I bet you did. So did I. Well, this Christmas, give the gift of sleep with Eight Sleep. Everybody needs good rest for most of their days, but few know how to actually get it. Eight Sleep's Pod 5 is the answer to that. Pod 5 is a smart mattress that automatically regulates your body temperature throughout the night. It's proven to deliver up to an extra hour of good sound sleep every single night. That will change your life if you get it. Plenty of people on our staff use the Pod 5, and they are very psyched.

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35:47Piers Morgan:Make it z-amazing. For example, we back way above our strength in things like music. Of the eight biggest selling artists in music history, I think I'm right in saying that five of them have come from the UK. I believe that. From the Beatles to Elton John. They're very musical people, as we often say. We're very artistic people. We're very scientific people. We lead the world, actually. A lot of our universities are in the top 10 in the world. So comparative to our size, which is about a sixth of the size of the United States, maybe fifth and sixth, but comparative to our size, we continue in many areas to bat above our population strength.

36:27The Brits in the Middle East, in Dubai specifically, are like one of the engines of the economy. They're amazing people. I'm actually one of them, half. So I agree. You'll never get me to say the Brits aren't unusual.

36:39Piers Morgan:But the qualities you cited, funny enough, that does resonate with me. We have lost a lot of the qualities, I think, collectively as a country, which did make this country great. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, but I agree with you about that, because I do think that it's become a bad thing to be patriotic about our country. There's a huge war about waving the Union Jack flag. I never see that war raging in the same way in America, right? There's a lot of, I mean, I'm not giving an example. But it will. That's why I'm doing this interview. Well, it may well, yeah. It was very interesting when I did Celebrity Apprentice.

37:12Piers Morgan:It's where I met Donald Trump. And this was back in 2008. And the organization that I raised money for, because it was a charitable thing, you had to have a charity, was the Intrepid Fallen Heroes Fund. And they had a base down in San Antonio. So I went down there. And I remember distinctly coming off the plane and seeing a load of people with flags. And I couldn't work out what was happening. I knew it wasn't for me. American flags. And it turned out that they were there greeting every single serviceman and woman who came off the planes from whichever war zone they'd come from. Because there was a big center there, a lot of military service people living in San Antonio, a lot of them also being treated for serious injuries and so on.

37:54Piers Morgan:And they were just applauding and thanking them for their service as they came off these planes. You'd never see that anywhere in the UK. It just doesn't exist as a concept to do that. I was very struck by that. And, you know, I do think America generally is a lot more proudly patriotic than we've become. We've become almost ashamed of being British in a way that I don't like. I think we should be prouder of ourselves and prouder of what we've achieved and prouder of what we could be. But one of the reasons why people don't feel that pride, I think, is because we've had a succession of what I would say are pretty hopeless politicians who dragged us into a place where people don't like it.

38:32I get it. But maybe you got those politicians because the people hate themselves.

38:36Piers Morgan:I don't think we hate ourselves. Really? No, I think we've had a shockingly mediocre tier of politicians. But I mean, the sort of increase in British masochism, which has famously been part of your sexual retinue for centuries, came me more. No, that's just true. As you well know. I don't know a Brit. You Americans love a bit of spanking. Come on, you know you do. No, not in the boarding school way. But anyway, whatever the point is, that has increased dramatically since the Second World War. And I have done a couple segments on the Second World War that have been very kind of shallow and not even really talking about the details or whatever.

39:16You're a holocaust. Obviously, I'm not. Whatever that means. Hitler killed a ton of Jews. That's terrible. so that's been a diversion really that specific conversation from a much more important broader conversation about what that word did to the west and i i think it's totally objectively fair to say the west by specifically by which i mean your country which is really the seat of the west has been in decline since the war so like what is that do you know i mean i wouldn't say

39:48Piers Morgan:it's been in decline since the war there's a lot of recovery after the war it was a devastating I mean, you know, one of the most extraordinary aspects of that war is that Winston Churchill, who many people here to this day believe pretty well single-handedly rallied the morale of the people here to help us defeat the Nazis, albeit with obviously America's help, that he in the end, at the end of the war, he got thrown out of office because so many people came back to a really bad lifestyle. A lot of impoverishment, a lot of homelessness and so on. Well, maybe were there other reasons? No, no, that was why they took it out.

40:22Did Germany attack you first? Is that what happened? What do you mean? Did Germany attack Britain? Is that how you got into a war with Germany? Germany attacked Poland. Oh, but not the UK? No. Oh, okay. Because that does get lost. But they wanted to take... So you voluntarily joined the war? Yes. Okay, right. I'm not defending Hitler, of course, but it's just a fact that you weren't attacked. So when you say that Churchill saved Britain, And well, Britain got into the war voluntarily.

40:52Piers Morgan:Well, voluntarily. Well, we mean. Well, one of our neighboring European countries was attacked. And it was quite clear that Adolf Hitler and the Nazis wanted to take over Europe. This was an existential threat to Europe and therefore to the UK. So you're arguing that he would have come for the UK? 100%. Even though your politicians and he and there's like not one person who was saying that in 1939-40. No, Neville Chamberlain wasn't because he totally misread what was going on. Winston Churchill completely read correctly what was going on and came out of the wilderness to actually come and save us.

41:26Piers Morgan:I think without him - I think you signed a treaty with Poland that locked you into a course of action that destroyed your country. I'm just saying - You don't honestly think the Nazis would have stopped at Poland? I have no idea. I'm just saying - Yes, you do, Tucker. Come on. Look, I'm just going by what contemporaneous sources said. I have no idea. Hitler invaded Russia. So obviously that's deranged and incredibly destructive. So I don't know is the truth. He was focused on communism. No one doubts that. This was not a communist country. But I'm just saying Britain voluntarily joined the war.

41:59It was a war that you were not involved in and you got in. But my question is, why did it destroy Britain? I don't understand as the victor nation.

42:08Piers Morgan:Why didn't it destroy Britain? Well, look outside. Look outside. We're in the city of London. Hang on. Look, it's Tower Bridge. It's the Tower of London. magnificent office blocks here? Well, it changed London. Why do you look at this and see a wrecked country? I don't. Well, I don't see an English country. So we're in the city of London now. What do you mean by that? Well, people whose ancestors built Stonehenge are not here anymore. So the city of London is 36 % white and that's happened in the last, I don't know, 40 years. But England is about 70 % white. England? Yes. Okay. Well, it was 99 % in 1945.

42:42Okay, so we've evolved. But you're on the way to becoming the minority in the country. So no one wants to say that. I think you can get arrested for saying that here.

42:50Piers Morgan:That's not white supremacy. This is the indigenous population of the country. It's a statistical fact that I think by 2100, we will be a minority white country. 2063 as of today. Well, I read a bit later. But these are dynamic numbers, so they change. Here's my question for you. So what? Well, let me refer to the beginning of our conversation when you said that the people who live in a country define the character of that country. And then you said, yes, all the things for which we were famous and in which we had pride, like our stoicism, our concern for others, our tidiness, the cleanest country in the world now, it's pretty filthy.

43:28All those things change when you get new people moving there. You said that. I mean, you're the racist, not me. So I'm just using, I'm using the parameters that you said.

43:36Piers Morgan:I did not say that that was down to non-white people. You didn't. Coming to the country. Well, that's who lived here. I don't believe that. No, but that's what you said. No, I said there was creaking pressure on public services. No, no, no. Coming from the increased population. But she also, maybe foolishly admitted the truth. You could get arrested for this. I know the stakes are high. But you said that when the people who live in a country change, so does the culture, which is like the most obvious. It's like when it rains out, it gets wet. That's not a controversial observation, but it's illegal here because it is true.

44:08And my only point is not against, I've already said, I like the Bangladeshis better than I like the liberal whites in your country a lot more. They've never yelled at me. I'm not attacking them. I'm just saying the things that made Britain, Britain, England, England. Is there still an England? I have no idea. Those are going away because there are different people living here. And if you think that those are good things in the same way that the Swedes or the Chinese or the people in Burundi and Chad, they like their culture. It's their ancestors' culture. and now it's gone. And like, why can't we say that's bad?

44:37Piers Morgan:Well, because you may think it's bad. It's good? I love living in a very multicultural state. But you're rich. I mean, you're rich. You go to the white parts of London and they're exactly the same as they were when I was a child. They've been coming here for 50 years. They're exactly the same. What neighbor I'm saying is exactly the same. Which do you think is a white part of London? I'm not going to tell you. Well, that's a little test for you. Which area of London do you think is white? The one I'm staying in right now. The one where my relatives live. Where? I'm not going to say. No, you don't want to say because you know that I'll immediately say, come on, there's loads of non-white people living there.

45:08Piers Morgan:By the way, I'm not against non-whites. There's no exclusively white area around there. Okay. There's not. Christmas season is here. Although it's a bit of a cliche, it really is important to keep Christ in Christmas. Should we focus on cookies and presents or on the reason we're doing this, which is Jesus? Obviously, the point is Jesus. That's the whole point. That's the only point. And all the decency and good cheer of this holiday comes from Jesus. The Hallow Apps Pray 25 Challenge reminds us of that. It features Chris Pratt, Gwen Stefani, our friend Jonathan Rumi, and many others. This 25-day challenge guides you through Advent and helps you keep your focus on the true reason for the season, Jesus.

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47:39Piers Morgan:You're referring to the more multicultural that Britain has become in terms of other ethnicities coming to live here, then the worse it's got. And I'm saying those two things, in my view, are not automatically linked. There are lots of white people who behave very badly in this country. Well, I've met them and they yell at me. So yes, just for the fifth time, I have more in common with the sincerely religious Pakistani cab driver than I do with anyone who works at the Times of London. That is just a fact. I don't like those people. I don't want to eat with them. And they're white. So all true.

48:13All I'm saying is the qualities that made Britain the greatest country in the world were linked directly to the people who live here. And so, of course, by definition, multicultural means less of some cultures because there's dilution of the dominant culture. And you've conceded that already.

48:29Piers Morgan:There are lots of people who are non-white, who've been born and raised in this country, who've contributed brilliantly to the success of this country, who've risen to the top positions in top industries, whether it's music or arts. So defensive. I'm not attacking the non-whites. Because you're worried about getting arrested. I get it. I'm not worried about being arrested. Would they rush in the door with no guns, little bobbies with their sticks? They might if they know you're here. Probably. I'm not worried about being arrested. I got hassled at your airport again. Really? Always. Well, for being Tucker Carlson?

49:00You know, we don't know. It's just, it's the AI, I guess. But - Oh, wait, I love that. What happened to you? You know, I was like, go see the attendant. And by the way, the attendant was some Pakistani woman who's like, oh, we're so glad you're here. Which I don't think I would have gotten from the liberal white lady. So again, once again, I'm not attacking anyone on the basis of their race.

49:21Piers Morgan:But you're saying that our culture has changed because we've had other cultures come here. Is that your position? Well, it's not my position. It's a fact. And you just said it at the beginning. I think - So it's better. So what about British culture didn't you like and has been improved by new cultures? Oh, not both. Tell me, what didn't you like before? What are you glad is gone from the Britain you grew up in? Let me tell you. If you came to London in the 50s and 60s, the food was crap. Absolute crap. Well, it was that way in the 80s when I was here. Right. Now we have some of the best gastronomy.

49:50Piers Morgan:Amazing. Some of the most expensive too. I wonder, is everyone eating there? I paid$1 ,000 for dinner last night. You're a wealthy man leading a very wealthy lifestyle. Holy shit. All the food here is. Come with me to Brick Lane. Come with me to Brixton. I'll give you a proper meal. I love it. You and I will go to the tough parts of town and eat street food. I can give you a great meal. But are you really saying the food? I'll take you to the top end of the Fordhampton Market. Right. You come with me. if you want to risk death walking up to Portobello Market, I'll take you and give you some street food and you'll spend 10 pounds.

50:20I've been to Portobello Market and by the way, just in point of fact, I'm quite popular there. I will say that. In Notting Hill. I feel no fear at all. In Notting Hill? Yeah, I will eat. Oh man, I... I always thought they'd, they're so liberal there. Don't even get me going.

50:34Piers Morgan:Even I get a hard time up there. I think they secretly love me because they know that they've been naughty. But whatever, my theories aside, here's my point. What, about British culture apart from the boiled menu, which was repulsive. Do you think, but the national character, and let me say it again, tidiness, self-restraint, selflessness, courage, fairness. The British system was imported around the world on the basis of one concept, fairness. That comes from the Magna Carta. I think a lot of - Has this become a fairer society? It's become completely unfair. You put fucking Julian Assange in prison for years without charges because the CIA told you to.

51:14Piers Morgan:We have had a massive rising issue with the suppression of free speech. Which is a fairness issue. But that has nothing to do with ethnicity or culture. Oh, really? So what does it have to do with, do you think? It has to do with a very ridiculously draconian view of what free speech actually is. But where does that come from? You've never had that. It comes from governments. Of course. But those are attitudes that grow from the population, or else you would have a revolution. This is the country that invented free speech. No, no, no, that's why you're wrong. The population does not want the suppression of free speech.

51:43They may not, but they keep voting for the fascists every time, whether it's Boris, whether it's Boris or whether it's Boris. No. He's a buffoon. It doesn't mean he's not an authoritarian.

51:56Piers Morgan:He wants, it's funny you mentioned the word buffoon. So I once. Well, I mean, that's axiomatic. Boris doesn't know how many children he has. I'm going to tell you why. No, because I once interviewed him for GQ and I said, Boris, this is 2008, 2009. I said, Boris, I've always thought that lurking beneath the buffoon exterior lies a sharp calculating political mind that wants to be prime minister. He wasn't even a sort of politician at the time. He looked at me and he said, you must consider the possibility that lurking beneath the buffoon exterior is an actual buffoon. True. So he was right. No, he was.

52:29Piers Morgan:I can't say we weren't warned. But the point is, look, it's not like. He's not a fascist though, Boris Johnson. He's an authoritarian. But it diminishes the word fascist when you say that about people. I get annoyed. Well, what is fascism actually? I mean, we're, we meaning the collective West, meaning the allies, meaning Roosevelt and Churchill, meaning America and its cousins in the UK, we're fighting against an authoritarian system. It wasn't just about race hate. It was about full control of a population. We're arguing against that and fighting against it. Of course, we were also funding it when we sent money to Stalin, but whatever.

52:59It was never fully consistent. But that's what we tell ourselves. And now that's what you have. There were three times as many people arrested in the UK last year for speech crimes as were arrested in Putin's Russia, and you have half the population. So this is much more authoritarian than Putin's Russia. No, it's not. How is it not? That's ridiculous.

53:19Piers Morgan:If you have three times as many arrests for speech crimes, it's more authoritarian. I've not seen that stat. If that is true, it's because we have been so appalling in protecting free speech. Well, you're appalling. No debate there, but I'm just saying, how do you define authoritarian? The idea that we are living here in a more authoritarian state than Russia. If you're, no, not come on. Those are the numbers. You don't believe that. Look, I believe in science, Pierce. I believe in science. You think England is more authoritarian than Russia? I think you're more likely to be arrested for a speech crime in Great Britain, indeed three times as likely.

53:52Piers Morgan:What would happen if you criticize the government? If you went on the airwaves here tonight. I'm an American. They're not going to mess with me. But if you went on the airwaves here tonight and you start abusing and hammering and mocking and criticizing our prime minister, which by the way, many people are doing. I'll give you - If you did that, what would happen to you? Nothing. Exactly. But what if I said I thought gay sex was disgusting and it should be illegal? And if you - Hold on, hold on. That's nothing, prime minister. How about I'm opposed to sodomy? How's that? I haven't finished my question.

54:20Piers Morgan:And if you went to Moscow and you went on the airwaves and you did that about Putin, what would happen to you? You'd be in trouble. Right. So there's a difference. No, because - That's an authoritarian state. No, no, no. That's a straightforward - This one is not. That's a straightforward flawed democracy. No, this is global homo. No, no, this is global homo. It is, it's global homo. What do you mean? I'm gonna tell you, I'm gonna tell you, this is a concept that you need to understand. Yes, I do. Yes, you do. This is the authoritarianism of the present and future. And it's not, it's the feline, passive aggressive female version that doesn't tell you what it is.

54:54They don't march into your town in jack boots and put a rifle against your face and tell you what they do about Russia. For sure. It's much more straightforward. And they kill you. And you fall off a building suddenly. Oh, you kill tons of people. You kill tons of people. I don't disagree. Oh, yeah, you do a lot. Yeah, right. So let's stop with the killing people because you kill tons of people. But as you well know, because you know the people who do it. And I do too. No, I'm saying there's something more offensive about an authoritarianism that will not admit what it is. So instead, people are arrested here and thrown into jail.

55:26And I've been to Belmarsh Prison. It's awful. It's awful. But you walk in and there are all these signs about Trans Acceptance Week. It is fascism wrapped in the human rights campaign rainbow logo. It's not any different from what we were fighting against. It's arresting you for saying something they don't want.

55:50Piers Morgan:I certainly believe, and this has been my big criticism of the woke left. I wrote this book called Woke is Dead, which is more an aspiration than a reality at the moment. but the point I was making was that the woke left became in the end like the very fascists they profess to hate most they literally behaved like fascists anyone that deviated from their worldview I don't want you to devalue the term no no I'm not I'm explaining the hypocrisy of the left which I think we can probably agree with if you start to behave like the very people you claim you hate most you are a brazen hypocrite it's not just the left it's the right thing unfortunately I agree some of the right thing as well I agree.

56:28Piers Morgan:Hypocrisy is hypocrisy, isn't it? Wherever you see it. And I do think that this, the way I would categorize what's happened here is successive governments, right and left, have pandered to a weird sentiment driven by very vocal but small numbers of people that we have to start getting into the suppressing free speech business. And it's been a catastrophic failure which has diminished this country. But why? What we're beginning to see is the coming out of that. And I'll give an example. When Graham Linehan, the comedian, the father Ted genius, right? And he decided to take on this whole trans issue head on.

57:04Piers Morgan:And a bit like J.K. Rowling, he got shamed, vilified, cancelled. He lost everything. He lost his family. He lost his jobs. He lost everything. He became unemployable. Completely cancelled. And he did some jokes on X back in April. And they were just like harmless. He talked about a trans woman coming into a woman's space. Harmless to you as a non-trans person, but genocidal to the trans community. Which again is ridiculous. So he did a joke about a trans woman coming into a woman's space. And he said, what is your kicker in the balls, right? It was a joke. It was a knuckle joke. If you're oversensitive, you go, oh, most people just laughed and took it for what it was.

57:46Piers Morgan:Some kind of joke that wouldn't even be considered remotely controversial 10 years ago. When he arrived at Heathrow Airport several months later, he was arrested by five armed police officers and taken off to the cells. And I just found that utterly shocking. So I'm not pretending there's not been a massive problem about free speech. But what was interesting and encouraging was the public backlash. Hence my book title, Woke is Dead. The public backlash was so ferocious that within a week, the police said, we're not going to prosecute Linnehan. And actually, they said further, we're never going to prosecute anyone for this kind of thing again.

58:22Piers Morgan:This kind of thing. That was a bug when I went, we're finally getting a bit of sad. But that's not, so the trans thing is absurd. It's so absurd that like, it's easy for people to say that's absurd. What's actually happening here, as I think you know, is a society is being changed by its leaders against the will of the population. The population hates it. They've always hated it. No population wants radical demographic change. None. And so it's been so profound since 1997 under Tony Blair that you're not allowed to note that your country is being taken from you, okay? So you can criticize trannies all you want.

58:55You cannot criticize Israel, as you know. You're not allowed to criticize demographic change, and you can't criticize the rest of the fabled LGBT community. And if you don't believe me, listen to this story, which is like, it's unbelievable. This is from the Daily Mail, which is like kind of a ridiculous publication, but I've - I love the Daily Mail. I do too. There's a lot about it I like, but I mean, it's like absurd. But anyway, Elizabeth Kinney from Tranmere. Have you read about this? She's a mother of four. I think she's a nurse and she gets beaten up by her boyfriend. He beats her up. She goes to the hospital and she texts someone, a buddy of hers, a friend of hers, a girlfriend of hers, and describes the man who beat her up and sent her to the hospital as a quote, faggot.

59:37It's a faggot. And she's arrested and convicted of a hate crime. The guy who beat her up is not arrested or convicted. And then she goes through this whole kabuki, which is now required, where she prostrates herself before the judge. I'm sorry, it was not a homophobic rant. By the way, you're allowed to be homophobic if you want in a free country. You can have any view you want. But no, because she used the word faggot, she's arrested. And the guy who punched her in the face was not. That story tells you everything.

1:00:08Piers Morgan:Well, I don't know that story. If it's exactly - Daily mail, baby. Okay. Pictures of her and everything. I'm not doubting it. I'm just saying I need to look into it. But if that is how you've told it, obviously it's ridiculous. Would you say the word faggot on camera? No. Why? Because I - You don't want to get arrested, do you? No, I don't want to be arrested. Because it's so harmful to people? No, no. Is it like gay bashing? What's wrong with that? Actually, my whole issue with the whole trans debate, for example, is you don't need to slide into actually saying derogatory stuff about trans people to make the point that women's rights should be protected.

1:00:38Piers Morgan:You don't need to. Well, I agree. So I don't believe it. No, but it's a magic word. I don't believe in needlessly sneering. I'm not smearing anybody. I just think. But would you use that word? Faggot? Yeah. I just did. But would you use it? Faggot, faggot, faggot. Okay, but why? And I'm using it because you're not allowed to because you're. I am allowed to. Go ahead. I don't want to. Say, I love gay people. Faggot. I'm allowed to. I just choose not to. This chick just got arrested for it and convicted. Right. So that doesn't have a chilling effect on your ability. There are people watching this who will be offended by the use of the word chick.

1:01:08Piers Morgan:I'm sure they will. I'm not anti-gay. I never have been. I can use any freaking word I want. I'm offended by the use of the word chick. Chick. Okay, whatever. I dare you be so sexy comparing women to chicks. How about this? Let my life, the way that I actually live and treat people, be the testament to my heart. That's how I feel. Right. And if I've mistreated someone, that is a sin. I don't believe, correct me if I'm wrong, I don't believe you would call a gay person a faggot to their face. Not in a mean way. By the way, the only people I ever hear use the word faggot are gay. Right. Ever. Just like the only people you ever hear use the N-word are black.

1:01:43Right. Period. Right. So if you spend any time around gays, and I have spent a lot of time around gays. Of course, I work in television. I mean, half our staff was gay. They're great people. And they're the only ones who ever said, faggot. He's a faggot. I'd be like, ugh. I have no need to say the word. Actually, it's kind of an ugly word, to be totally honest.

1:02:01Piers Morgan:But you know the argument they use, which is. Well, they don't use it. They use the word constantly. I've worked with them my whole life. Well, I wrote a column, for example, about the use of - But I'm not allowed to use it, but you are. I don't play those games, dude. Listen, I'm going to make a point. I wrote a column for the Mail, actually, about the use of the N-word. And the Washington Post did a huge report on this and said that every day, on Twitter as it was then, the N-word was used half a million times, but almost exclusively by young African-American men. So it's cool. Well, they would argue, and I understood the argument.

1:02:34Yeah.

1:02:34Piers Morgan:It's their, they've reclaimed that word. I don't believe in universal rights either. I think certain standards should apply to certain people based on their blood, but don't apply to everybody. What do you mean? I mean, that's what you're saying, dude. The standards have to be absolute or they're not standards. I was about to make my argument. Sorry, you're getting me so wound up. No, no, but I actually made the point in the column that I don't think that works. I don't think you reclaim it. What you actually do is you empower genuine racists to say, well, if they're using that word, I'm going to use it.

1:03:07Piers Morgan:And so I felt it was an entirely self-defeating reclamation of that offensive word. I would say the same to gay people. If you constantly use the F word in your own - What's the F word? You know what? We've just been saying it. If you want to keep saying it, you keep saying it. I'm not going to keep saying it. It's worse than fuck, isn't it? To a gay person, from a straight person, yes. From a straight person, but not from the gay person? That's my point. I don't. So I thought we. I understand the reclamation argument that they put up. That if they. Reclamation. That they're reclaiming the word and they're disempowering it.

1:03:40Piers Morgan:That's fine. I don't care. I think that's kind of amusing, actually. I just don't think it works. I think the more these words get used. Then the more. But is it really about words? I guess that's kind of what I'm saying. I think it empowers people who are genuinely racist or homophobic to then use those words. OK, they're genuinely racist. I don't care. Why don't you pick up the trash? OK, that's kind of how I feel. and stop letting people from countries where they can't speak English come to your country by the millions. Like, don't the material things matter? Don't the actual things matter?

1:04:07Your father lying on a cot in a public hospital?

1:04:09Piers Morgan:I do think that people, when they come to a country, should try and learn the language. Of course, but no, but what, I'm not, again, I'm not attacking anybody. I'm just saying the whole debate about what words are allowed and by whom is, first of all, insane, because again, standards mean nothing unless they apply to everyone because we believe in human rights, not group rights or ethnic rights. We're against that because we're against the Nazis, right? So there's that. But it's also a distraction from what actually matters. If your dad is spending hours, I'm sure he was a Briton, he spent his whole life here paying taxes, and that's what he gets?

1:04:41It's like we should be having - Completely unacceptable. But it is acceptable. That's the problem. Instead, we're arresting that girl for saying faggot. Well, the two things - Or as we say here, the F word.

1:04:51Piers Morgan:Yeah. Like I said, I don't know that story. I'll look into it. But I do - Does she look like a faggot user to you? She looks too nice. Come on. I'm sorry. Don't behave yourself. No, I can't. I know you can't. They're making me want to say that because it's so outrageous that you would arrest someone for a word. I agree. And like we actually have to put ourselves at risk to stop. I agree. Yeah. I agree with you. Well, then help me now. Let's have a moment of self-liberation. I think you're beyond help. Hold my hand. Hold my hand. We're going to say faggot together. You ready? No, we're not. Do you say gay and retard?

1:05:27Huh? Do you say gay and retard?

1:05:29Piers Morgan:I say gay. I wouldn't use the R word. I wouldn't. I personally wouldn't. Are you? My choice. Do you think it should be legal to abort a Down syndrome baby? I'm exercising my free speech right not to use that word. I totally agree. I actually don't use the N word ever because I think it's ugly. I just don't like it. So by your own petard, you're being wasted. I kind of agree. I'm not even, I'm mostly making fun to make a point. I actually think that we should not kill people because they have Down syndrome. I think they're beautiful people. And I think when you get to heaven, it'll probably fill people with Down syndrome because they are pure in spirit.

1:06:02And I'm not joking. Even a tiny bit, I really believe that. But people who think it's okay to genocide everyone with Down syndrome through the alpha-fetoprotein test are lecturing me because I'm using the word retard. It's like maybe we're missing the real argument. That's all I'm saying. Does that make sense?

1:06:16Piers Morgan:It does, although I'm pro a woman's right to choose what to do with her body. Including aborting someone because he's retarded? Well, in this country, to be clear, abortions are a very settled issue. George Galloway doesn't believe in it. Well, no, but honestly, it's not a contentious issue. It should be. In America, I know. In America, it's a ferociously contentious issue. It is simply not one in this country. Maybe that's part of the problem. I don't think it's a problem at all. Who's having the abortions here? Well, a lot of people have abortions here. Right. It's pretty overwhelmingly, though, people whose grandparents lived here.

1:06:47Have you ever noticed that? Whose people? Who what? It's the native population having the abortions. It's not immigrants not having a ton of abortions. I don't know the demographic. But that's true everywhere. And just a deeper issue. So what is the loss of the will to live? Why, if you're not having, and you're a huge exception to this, I know you've procreated SFI. God bless us both. But a lot of native-born Brits do not have many children, if any. It's also true in the United States. It's especially true in Canada.

1:07:18Piers Morgan:I think this is becoming a massive issue. And Elon Musk has been right about this. The biggest problem is not, as we all assumed, overpopulation in the world, but underpopulation. Because a lot of people now, especially as the changing way society has gone with many more women working and so on, that the number of children that are being born actually in places like the UK and the US is reducing quite markedly projected for the next 50 years. And you're seeing in some countries in Asia, for example, it's getting catastrophically low very fast. and this is going to be a massive problem. South Korea.

1:07:52Yeah, it's going to be a huge problem. There will be no South Koreans in 100 years. It will only be North Koreans.

1:07:56Piers Morgan:What does that tell you? Well, it's not a good moment. No, but where's that? I totally agree with you and with Elon. And again, I feel like we've all done our part to reverse that trend. But I feel like we spend no time asking, why is this? Well, don't you think it's as simple in most cases as the changing work practice? If you went into the 1950s. That's part of it, yeah. 1950s in the UK, most women didn't work. now when women go out to work a lot more, they probably don't have the time to have three, four, five children as they used to. There's no doubt. And they can't afford it. Childcare is more expensive.

1:08:29In the United States, it's more expensive than I think any other expense, but for young people with children. Of course, you're right. But there's also something a little bit deeper than that. It's like, it used to be just axiomatic that reproducing was not just your duty, but your greatest joy. That was the way you create the next generation, continue your civilization, and that has died since the Second World War. And not just in the white world. But that is like a profound change.

1:08:59Piers Morgan:What is inarguable actually? I mean, look, like I said, the population here has gone from 50 million to 70 million since the 50s. The really worrying graph is what happens in the next 50 years. No, but that growth in population has been almost exclusively from immigration. And true in the United States, and Canada is just like a completely different country. nothing like that has ever happened in the history of the world. Why is this happening? Well, what, in terms of people traveling around? No, in terms of people deciding not to pass on their genes, committing mass suicide, because that's what that is.

1:09:32Well, yeah, our families lived in this village for 2000, since the beginning of recorded history in this country. Unlike mine, you have a native population.

1:09:40Piers Morgan:That's because no one could travel. You're the Cherokee of this island, okay? I don't want to give you a history lesson, but 100 years ago, So, you know, everyone traveled by horse and cart. There was no airplane. You couldn't leave the country. You couldn't go to other places. But rather like tribes 2 ,000 years ago, who used to literally just sit in their little area of wherever it may be, eventually they ventured out. And so evolution continues. I'm for that. I would never argue against that. I flew here, actually. Yeah, right, of course. So once you're able to do that, obviously people are going to go exploring.

1:10:10Piers Morgan:They're going to want to try and live in other places. The question then becomes how enriching or damaging or both and in what levels is an influx of people from other ethnicities, other cultures, other countries. I would say on balance, London in particular has been almost a template actually for tolerance and cohesion and multiculturalism at its best. The stabbings you're talking about. Well, let's talk about the stabbings. The murder rate in London, do you know what it is compared to any major city in America? Probably much lower, I would think. Way lower testosterone level here. I mean, you can feel it too.

1:10:47Yeah, that's true, actually. Every time. Oh, I'm aware. That's true. But look, I'm not - But you have the worst murder rates. Well, I know. And by the way, we always have, which is interesting. Yeah. There are a lot of factors for that. And it's one of the saddest things in my country. I would never defend it.

1:10:59Piers Morgan:The murder rate in London, for example, I checked before I came and saw you, because I thought you'd ask. You think London's a better city than it was 40 years ago, 50 years ago? Well, statistically, the murder rate has actually been plummeting in London. Do you know any - Which I'm good. in London. Wait, do you think it's a better city than it was 40 years ago, for real? Yeah. Do you think Sadiq Khan's better than what you had before? I think Sadiq Khan is somebody who's won two more terms after his first, because actually he's not done as bad a job as people say. Oh, that's the new standard.

1:11:29Piers Morgan:Nor has he done as, oh no, nor has he done as good a job as he would like you to believe. But certainly in things like tackling murder, I give him credit. In tackling things like the clean air, where some of the boroughs here were the most polluted. You have You have no factories. You don't make anything. All you do is banking. How could there be dirty air? What are you even talking about? There's no manufacturing. You lost automotive. You lost aerospace. You lost everything. Steel. It's clean air because people are idle. They're delivering food to people who work at banks. That's it. There is more traffic now in London than there was even four years ago.

1:12:04Piers Morgan:I'm sure. Right. It's called tourism. So my borough, Kenton and Chelsea, for example, one in 12 people. there was a big study on this a few years ago. One in 12 people were dying from pollution-related illness, right? I had a lot of issues, which I thought were allergy issues. Eventually, I was told, right, here's what you should do. Check your air quality app every morning. When it's really high, don't go out and shut the windows. Secondly, get air purifying machines in your house for the rooms you use. I did both. Guess what? I've had no problems since, and I didn't have any allergies. Well, that's amazing.

1:12:35And all it cost was the total destruction of your economy. So why do you think the air was polluted before?

1:12:41Piers Morgan:Because people were burning. Economy has not been destroyed. It's still one of the biggest economies in the world. What is the economy here? What's it based on? What do you mean? What's the British economy? I look at the economy of, I don't know, Wales in 1900, and it's like, it's coal. They did coal. People burn it. That's what their economy is. Look at the economy of Sheffield or Birmingham 100 years ago. Of course, it was steelmaking. What's the economy? There's still a lot of manufacturing in the UK. But as a percentage, your economy. As soon as your manufacturing could be a lot less. A lot less?

1:13:10Piers Morgan:It's almost non-existent. Yeah. Right. So we still have one of the biggest economies in the world. But what is that economy based on? A lot of things. Okay. What's the main one? Well, in the city, there's a lot of manufacturing. That's the main one? Well, there's a lot of technology stuff going on. There's a lot of scientific stuff going on. All sorts of industry. You haven't mentioned the biggest one by far. Well, go on. It's lending money to people. It's banking. Banking, yeah. Okay. That's number. We're in the city of London right now. Sure. How many things are being made in the city of London other than debt?

1:13:39Piers Morgan:It's one of the financial hubs of the world. We're right in the city here. I know we're sitting in the city of London right now, run by CitiCon. Right. But again, it's not as bad as people think it is. But hold on. Is that really an economy? If your economy is real estate, that's London's other big economic center, is buying and selling and leasing pieces of property again and again to different people. Nothing's being created. But that's not true. We are creating things here. A lot of things. Like what? There's a lot of money. Burrata. Okay. Yeah, there's a lot of, of course there's a lot of money because people from around the world stash their money here because it's a system based on fairness.

1:14:16There's a lot of manufacturing. Not as much as there was 80 years ago. How much is in London, your biggest city, the dominant city? I don't know the percentages. So we have to check. Pretty much, unless you're talking about like burritos being manufactured or whatever, I don't think there's really any.

1:14:30Piers Morgan:The bigger problem for us is not what economy we're doing. It's how we manage the economy. So it doesn't matter where the money comes from? It does. But successive governments have dragged us to a place where we have almost zero growth. Without growth, you can't have a successful thriving country. That's not true. Have you been to Japan? It's like the most successful thriving country in the world. It has had no growth for a long, not real growth. And we've gotten these lectures from the bankers for like 30 years. Japan is dying. Ever go to Japan? There are four-year-old girls on the subway alone.

1:14:58There's not one speck of litter in all of Tokyo. And it's one of the biggest cities in the world, 12 million. It's an incredible society. It's the opposite of New York, London, Baltimore, Detroit. It's incredible. I know you've been there, and I know you've had these naughty forbidden thoughts like, wait a second, I thought we dropped a bomb on them. How are they so great? No, no, no.

1:15:17Piers Morgan:I like going to Tokyo. No growth. How'd they do that with no growth? I was assured by libertarian economics, if we had no growth, things would be bad. Well, look at this. I like going to Japan, but I wouldn't swap it for London. Right. Fair. You're English. That's kind of the point. Right. This is your homeland. And I genuinely do love London. I bet you do. When I lived in America full time, I really missed a lot of the time. I hope so. This is where your ancestors are from. I get it. That's the whole point. That's the whole argument I'm making. It matters where you're from. The culture really matters.

1:15:46It's not about growth. It's not about any of this crap. It's about, am I on the same page with my neighbor? Do we have something in common? Do we have the same gut instincts about things? Those are the most important questions there are.

1:15:56Piers Morgan:But economic prosperity raises all the ships. Has that been true here? It should be true. Is there more poverty in London now than there was 40 years ago? There's more child poverty. Yes, I know. In fact, the child poverty rate is worse here than it is in America. A lot worse. The general poverty rate. So how is this so great even though they have barata? The general poverty rate is actually lower than it is in America. But child poverty specifically is still worse. Is there anything that matters other than child poverty? Probably not. Not really. I agree. Look, I'm not slagging on, I love your country.

1:16:27I really thought a lot about this since I was so mean. During that conversation, I was just wounded because I feel like the destruction of Britain has effects on our entire Anglo civilization.

1:16:39Piers Morgan:Do you actually look out and see a destroyed country? No, it's just beautiful. I mean, this is, again, this is the rich part of town. I could take you to Manchester, Birmingham, Glasgow, Cardiff. How are they doing? They're all doing great. Much better than you think. Honestly, Tucker, you'll walk around, you'll see the pubs packed, the restaurants packed, the theaters packed. You'll see people having a great time. Go out on a Friday night in London. Go to the Devonshire in Soho, the best Irish pub in town. Four deep in the streets. Everyone having a great time. I love that. 20 ,000 pints of Guinness being sold every week.

1:17:13I could say that there are so many things about London I really like. I've been here three days, again, visiting relatives. Have you felt threatened walking around? No, not at all. Of course. Again, who's going to do anything? Pakistanis are all super nice to me and the whites are all kind of craven and sad. No, you're totally safe here, man. It's not that at all. It's just that it's dirty. It's what? It's dirty.

1:17:36Piers Morgan:Come on, American cities aren't any cleaner than love. They're dirtier, they're dirtier. And it's one of the great tragedies and I can't get anyone to care. I agree. Nobody cares. I agree. So that to me, if I went to your bedroom right now. I'm sorry. I'm not going, I'm not going, especially after the whole faggot thing. It's like I'm on comfort. I get it, I get it, I get it. And you said you were so liberal. But if I went to your house unannounced, I bet I would find it tidy and clean. And I bet I would find that just because you have a housekeeper. I don't even know if you do, but because you care, because you have self-respect.

1:18:07Right. That's why you shave in the bed.

1:18:07Piers Morgan:But I agree with that point. I think the self-respect part, I totally agree with you. We've lost that. We've lost the, I think the British, we're legendary for our politeness, our manners, our calm. That has gone. We've really, really - Dude, that's everything. No, but I totally agree with you. So when you talk about the cultural stuff that I really regret that has gone out of fashion, if you like, it is things like that. It's things like, you know, a British person used to speak well and open doors for women and things like that. Now that's frowned upon, right? The kind of screaming radical feminists have made it almost a taboo thing.

1:18:39Piers Morgan:Young men in particular do not know how to behave. When I'm out with them, I notice they don't stand up when women walk into a room or to a table. They don't open doors for women and stuff because they've been conditioned to think this might be toxic masculinity and all this bullshit. But that kind of stuff really worries me. Do you ever wonder where it comes from? Because I know the answer, but I'm not like... Well, you're going to say it's multiculturalism, but a lot of the other cultures that have come here actually have far more politeness. I agree. I agree completely. So that's the point, yeah.

1:19:08That's exactly my point, is that the cost is to the invaded. You're being invaded. You already said there are boats showing up uninvited. That's called an invasion. It's happened a lot through history. And it's the people who are conquered, who are vanquished, who suffer. The immigrants all seem kind of happy. It's better than Bangalore, you know, or wherever.

1:19:26Piers Morgan:We don't feel conquered and... Well, but you are, though. I mean, if people are showing up in boats in your country, I don't know what to do about them. Well, how about sink them? I mean, what? You really think? To put it in perspective... Lord Nelson would put up with this? To put it in perspective, in the last five years, we've had about 200 ,000 people come over our southern border. In the last five years in America, until Donald Trump got a grip of it, you have apparently 10 million come over the southern border. Oh, more. Right. So I'm afraid there is no comparison. We have a little problem.

1:19:56You had a gigantic problem. Let me add an amen, as we say in the black church. I totally agree. And that's why Britain is so interesting, because for two reasons. One, the people who are being invaded and replaced are the native population. They're the Iroquois of the British Isles. They've been here forever. Their ancestors' bones were at Stonehenge. There's no debate about that, though they pretend otherwise. But that's just a fact. So eliminating indigenous populations is kind of a sin, I thought. But it's happening here and in Ireland and in Scotland and in Wales. A.

1:20:26Piers Morgan:B. Hang on, they're not being eliminated. Of course they are. Look at the birth rates. What are their birth rates? That's not an elimination. Of course it is. Over time it is. That is people taking a decision about their own lives and not having enough children or as many as they used to have. That's not an elimination. What do you mean it's not elimination? No one's forcing them. No. No one's telling the white population of this country, you can't have more than one child. Well, that's kind of the point that I'm making. No, they're not, though. Well, whatever they're doing. I mean, they're certainly encouraging.

1:20:55They're aggressively encouraging homosexuality. Use the F word and you go to jail. No, what is that? If you want to know who's in charge, who can't you criticize? You can't use the word faggot? What?

1:21:06Piers Morgan:No one's aggressively encouraging homosexuality. This girl went to jail for using a naughty word about gays, dude. They're not encouraging it. What do you think that is? What's wrong with homosexuality? Well, if you encourage it and the rate goes up, people have fewer kids. I don't know, did you do biology? Well, no. Just to be clear, most gay people don't have kids. That's the point I'm making. So if all of a sudden you have more people being gay, which you do. A lot? No, you don't. People don't pretend to be gay. Do you have the internet? Huh? I don't know. I'm not saying they're pretending.

1:21:38I'm saying you've got way more. You're gay, right? Well, you know, we used to say that, but. You don't think so? Well, I used to think that, but all of a sudden you're having -

1:21:47Piers Morgan:I think lots of people put their hand up saying they're trans. That's a different issue. Oh, it's totally different. It's not part of the continuum. It's not like gender isn't real. I can pretend - If you're gay, you're gay. Well, we were told that and I believed a lot of things. Do you not believe that? Well, it's demonstrably not true because science tells us it's not true. Do you think people are making it up? I don't think they're making it up at all. So what's your point? I think that you can be moved in that direction through propaganda and pornography. Oh, come off it, Tucker. Well, then how do you explain?

1:22:17Piers Morgan:Is there anything that would make you? Hold on. Could I make you gay? How hard do you want to try? Not hard, I can tell you. That's the spirit, Pierre. There's a limit. Even an open-minded man like you, you kind of hate the gays. Could I make you gay? I make a little gay joke. You're like, oh, I'm not going to be gay. Oh, no. I'm not using a gay slur. That's fine. Well, first of all, the context matters. As I've told you, I mean, that's like coffee table conversation between the gays. I work with that Fox faggot. So if it's okay with them, it's okay with me. It's just, it's sort of like racism.

1:22:48Only the whites are upset about it.

1:22:50Piers Morgan:You don't actually think people can be persuaded to be gay. Well, then why don't you explain the twofold or threefold increase in self-identified homosexuals in the United States? I can. They used to be repressed. It used to be illegal in this country until the mid-60s. You literally went to jail. So all through history. Hang on, hang on. You literally were put in a prison cell if you were openly homosexual. That was more here, actually. You guys did Oscar Wilde. We didn't. It was terrible. Absolutely shocking. Yeah, it was terrible. You ruled the world at the time. And now you're a joke dependent on foreign owned banks.

1:23:18And you think that's because we -

1:23:19Piers Morgan:But everyone's gay, so it's like a great trade. So allowing gay people to be openly gay is why we rent our country. Mocking masculinity is the fastest way - Totally different issue. To servitude. Totally different issue. Ask any Pakistani. That's why I like the Pakistanis here. You talk to a Pakistani cab driver and you're like, why are you gay? And they will start laughing because they've watched the video and they're like, I'm not gay. I'm a man. What's it got to do with masculinity? Ask a single Briton, why are you gay? They'd be like, well, I'm not gay, but it would be okay if I was. And it's like, there's no masculine self-respect at all.

1:23:49You're sounding quite homophobic. I'm not afraid of gays at all. I'm just asking, actually, a science...

1:23:54Piers Morgan:You don't actually think they really exist, by the sound of it. Well, they exist. No, but are they real? Is their sexuality genuinely... Are they sleeping with dudes? Yeah, big time. Well, and women. Are they attracted to members of their own sex? The lesbian thing is way overblown. Actually, there are a lot of lesbians. How many? I haven't counted, Duncan. I love this conversation. Not recently. This is so great. You're going to get so fucking arrested after this. It's going to be unbelievable. No one's arresting me. Okay. No one's arresting me. But I'm just curious whether you think the gay people actually are gay or whether you think they've been somehow turned.

1:24:27For the third time, I think it's completely sincere. Right. Completely sincere. What's your problem with it? The question, I'm not saying I have a problem with it. I'm merely saying you get fewer children when more people are gay. No, you don't.

1:24:39Piers Morgan:Well, actually you do. More people aren't gay. Just more people are able to admit they're gay. Hold on. You don't get fewer. Well, hold on. Stop. Okay. Was it like 30 % of the population always, like in Roman times? About 30%, would you say? I'm just saying. No, it was like this is. The falling birth rates have nothing to do with gay people. If you have more gays, do you have fewer children? We don't have more gays. We've got way more gays. No, no. We have more people who are not afraid to say they're gay. They're letting their freak flag fly. They are actually gay, Tucker. they just haven't been able to admit it so why isn't that the case like in asia what do you mean i don't think there's no asian country and they're not all like putting gays in jail malaysia might be korea's not south korea why why is their self-described homosexuality rate so much lower than yours japan same because culturally it is not a thing so it's genetic you think it's genetic no it's cultural no no people become gay but last world cup How do people become gay?

1:25:39Piers Morgan:Let me give you a second. The World Cup is coming. I'm talking about soccer. I'm telling you why. I'm talking about the gay thing. I'm telling you why. How do they become gay? Why are you gay? One in four countries in the last World Cup actually outlaw being homosexual. It's a criminal offense. Do you think that's right? I don't care. You should care. Okay, I really care. You've got people arrested for using the word faggot. That's who I feel sorry for. This chick from Britain. Right, so you feel very exercised about that. She's in Great Britain. She's not in some primitive theocracy. Are you not as exercised about people being arrested and putting in a prison cell for their sexuality if they're gay?

1:26:15Piers Morgan:Why do you feel as angry about that? Because it's not my culture. It's not my country. It's not. Come on. I'm not for arresting any. I'm for arresting very few people. You think people should be arrested for their sexuality? Of course not. Why? So you agree with me? Talk about, okay, I will, as also a talk show host, you're not going to get me off my path. And my path leads to this question. How do people become gay? They don't become gay Are they born gay? Yes How does that work? They're born gay How? They have a sexual attraction No, no, no I understand the manifestations The symptoms The symptoms?

1:26:51The symptoms The symptoms of my husband

1:26:54Piers Morgan:They're born gay Okay So that means it's genetic You may not want to No, no, that means Acknowledge that No, no, I'm just asking how it works Or believe that So there's a gay gene You said you worked with lots of gay people No, no, hold on, hold on But there's a gay gene. Did you not have this conversation with actual gay people? Yeah, a lot of them say I got molested. That's why I'm gay. In fact, a really good friend of mine who's gay said I got molested. That's why I'm gay. You think all gay people are gay because they got molested? No, I don't think that. But I am wondering. I don't know the answer.

1:27:17But I was.

1:27:18Piers Morgan:I would say the absolute vast majority of gay people are gay because they are actually attracted to members of their own sex. No, no, no. But again, that's a manifestation. Period. It's a natural thing. Let's just do science for 30 seconds. Of course, you're right. That's the definition of gay. I'm attracted to someone of my same sex. Do you believe that? Do I believe that they're attracted to people from their own sex? No, yes. Well, obviously they have sex with them. Okay. So that's what attraction is. So what's the big deal? Why do you care? My question, because the self-reported incidence of it has risen.

1:27:48So we were told 30 years ago, and I have a good memory, it's about 10%, but the actual self-reported...

1:27:53Piers Morgan:Because people will be mercilessly mocked for it. Listen, listen, listen, listen, listen. Then, but the self-reported rate was like 5%. Then it's 10%. Now it's like 30%. So my question is, were they all born that way? 30 % of a population is born homosexual? As an evolutionary matter, you tell me how that works. How do you reproduce? It's not 30 % of the population. In the United States, in a lot of places it is. 30%. It's not here. It's not 30%. It's way higher here based on the vibe. What is way higher is the number of people compared to 30 - But where does it come from? 30 years ago - Is it genetic and where's the gene?

1:28:23Piers Morgan:30 years ago, gay people were persecuted. I know, I've heard the story. No, they were - We were commemorating Stonewall the other day at my house. I'm on board with all of this stuff. You did? Yeah, the candlelight vigil, we always do it every year. Every February 9th, I arrest my kids in this kind of mock Stonewall thing. What do you do if one of your kids - They say, I just want to be free, and then I unlock the handcuffs. What happens if one of your kids says they're gay? I love my kids no matter what. I love my kids no matter what they do. They're my children. Would you think someone had turned them into a gay person?

1:28:52Piers Morgan:Or would you accept them as a natural thing? I'm a journalist, so I actually want to know what the real answer is, not the bullshit propaganda answer. What would you say to them? I don't know. That's why I'm asking you. You say people are born gay. I'm asking you what you would do. You don't want to answer because you don't have an answer because you know that your answer is bullshit. No, my answer is correct. That they're born that way. They're born gay. Then is there a gene for it? And you know there isn't. A gene. So tell me, a gene, it's the code that determines your physical and emotional characteristics.

1:29:20You have blue eyes because you have a gene for blue eyes. Right. If someone is gay, then there should be a gene that we can isolate and say it's the gay gene. And science has been looking for the gay gene for a long time. And my question is, where is it? I'm waiting on my gay gene. I ordered a gay gene. And it hasn't arrived yet. Waiter, where's my gay gene? Sounds to me like you might be. Yeah, I'm waiting for my gay gene. And if there isn't a gay gene, then it's totally within bounds. It's not homophobia. It's not hate. I don't want to arrest people in Liberia or whatever the hell you're talking about.

1:29:47I just want to know, what is this? And no one will answer the question. And I don't know why. It's weird, right? Why can't we have a non-emotional conversation with, why are you gay? As they say in Nigeria, why are you gay? and no one will answer it.

1:30:00Piers Morgan:Well, in Nigeria, it's a criminal offense to be gay. I don't know. You think there aren't gay people in Nigeria? I haven't been there in a while. Of course there are gay people in Nigeria. Where does it come from? But they can't admit they're gay. And you can't answer the question. Because if they admit they're gay, they get put in prison. That can't be right, right? You're a guy who doesn't - Oh, you shouldn't be putting someone in prison because he says he's gay. Of course I'm against that. I mean, please. Not because he says he's gay, but because he's gay. But pointing to an extreme third world.

1:30:23You guys don't bring Nigerians here, do you?

1:30:26Piers Morgan:We have a lot of Nigerians here. What? You import gay haters into your country? I thought you were for the gays. No, I'm serious. Why would you import? You're just telling me that the Nigerians are bad. You said you basically hate Nigerians because they hate the gays. As you know, Tucker, there are lots of countries around the world with different laws to hear, different ways, different cultures, different cultures. But why would you import them? If you love the gays, why would you import people? Because when they come here, they have to abide by our laws. That's how it works. And your values.

1:30:49So what are those values?

1:30:50Piers Morgan:No, actually, you don't have to come here with our values. Oh. You have to come here and abide by our laws. and your laws include not using the word faggot. That's against the law. I just think, why would you do that and just be offensive for the sake of it? I totally agree with you. I never use that word. I'm just being honest. I never use that word, ever. I think that's maybe the first time I've used it since the 80s. But it's not a matter of custom. It's a matter of law, because this woman, mother of four, wound up in prison for it. So if that's going to be the law, it's obviously like the most important, it's so important to you that people not insult gays in any way.

1:31:23You can insult straights.

1:31:25Piers Morgan:You can insult gays as much as you like. Well, no, you can't. You can't get arrested. You can go to jail. Well, I don't know that story. I'm going to look into it. But as I said to you. I'm going to hand it to you right here. Here it is. I don't think people should be arrested for using words like that. I agree. There should be social disapproval. You should be allowed to be hateful under freedom of speech. Amen. I totally agree. You know, they're not actually inciting violence against people, which is a different thing. I agree. We should agree. If I say, go and stab Tucker Carlson, and he's staying at this hotel right now.

1:31:51Piers Morgan:I agree. It's a criminal offense. Totally agree. There's already a law and statute in both our countries for that. So I can tell that we were both born in the 1960s because we totally agree on the underlying human right, which is the core human right, which is the right to conscience and self-expression. And both of us are on exactly the same page. Where I lose you is your whole world is crumbling around you. I'm worried that's going to happen in my country, which is why I'm hassling you. My whole world's great. In fact, it couldn't be better. The restaurants are better. I totally get it. That's what matters.

1:32:18Piers Morgan:If I'd known you were in town yesterday, I'd have taken you to the Emirates Stadium to watch my football team, Arsenal, beat our North London Rivals 4-1. It's not even football. It was the most joyous, magnificent experience imaginable. You would have seen a multicultural crowd roaring as one. It's incredible. Jews, Muslims, white, black, gay, straight, all joined as one as Arsenal fans. It's what the church used to be. Except they charge you admission. I get it. I know what Bretton Cercos is. Well, actually, the church used to charge you admission. In the old... We had Martin Luther for that.

1:32:53And we couldn't fix them. And Henry VIII played along. So God bless you for that. But here's the point.

1:32:58Piers Morgan:No, but here's my point. If I took you to the Devonshire for a pint of Guinness, you'd love it. If I took you to Arsenal to a massive multicultural stadium with fans, you'd love it. 60 ,000 people, no trouble, no aggravation. I'm here voluntarily. I love it. I just don't want it to evaporate. It's not evaporating. Okay. Why aren't you more panicked that thousands of people, thousands, By their own admission, the admission of the British government, arrested every year for saying words, not threats, words. I am. I've expressed my - So why doesn't someone try to overthrow the government? I don't understand.

1:33:30How can they treat you like slaves? If they carry on down that road.

1:33:33Piers Morgan:Well, they are carrying it on. It's thousands a year and it's getting more. Then they will be voted out of office. Voted out? I guarantee it. Yes. Is that what Winston Churchill would say? I think Winston Churchill said, even if a strong man tries to take Poland, a country we've got nothing to do with, it's not even close to here, We're going to risk the lives of our citizens to liberate Poland. Poland is closer to here than your home is to New York. Yes, that's true. That's true. So it's all relative. So it's a tiny little Lego Europe. I get it. If Maine got attacked, would you expect people in New York to help you?

1:34:02Piers Morgan:Poland has nothing to do with it. If Maine got attacked, would you expect people in New York to help you? It's the same country. Okay. But you're actually... Kind of a big distinction. My country is quite large. We were part of Europe, the same continent. You were not part of... I call bullshit on that. Really? In 1940, you were not part of Europe. You don't think, well, of course. You were definitely not part of Europe. You were on the continent of Europe. You are not on the continent. You're an island, dude, off the continent, separated by a body of water. Do you know what it's called between you and France?

1:34:30It's called the English Channel. I know what it's called. You were not part of Europe. That is not true. We are part of Europe. My ancestors lived here. You were not. You were England. We are part of Europe. France was considered exotic and crazy. That's where the prostitutes and the cheese eaters lived. It's only the brainwashing of Tony Blair and all these technocrats since who have convinced you are European. You're way better than European. You're an ancient Germanic Celtic people who ruled the world. Do you remember that in your wooden ships? Anyway, but the point is, the point - No, I'm serious.

1:35:00You did. You did some crap sometimes.

1:35:03Piers Morgan:No, it's totally real. Come on. With the mass from Maine, White Pines. But the point is, your country went to war to preserve human rights in another country you had nothing to do with, but human rights are evaporating in your own country, and it's cool because you have soccer games with foreigners at them and good burrata. And I'm just saying, maybe something about the heroic British spirit has been diminished with time. That's all I'm saying. But there's a very lovely, quaint notion being built up in the United States, driven by people like Tommy Robinson here. Who's Tommy Robinson? You know Tommy Robinson.

1:35:36He seems like a fraud to me.

1:35:37Piers Morgan:Well, he's not even Tommy Robinson. His name's Stephen Yaxley. It's not even his real name. He's also convicted of multiple crimes, thuggery, fraud. I don't even know anything about him, but he doesn't seem like he's that into Britain. We would call him a little shit stirrer, right? However, he has - But the real people here, the actual Britons still here. But this idea that he's driven, that we're on the verge of some sort of civil war here. Do you feel that when you walk around? No, because that's my point. You're so passive. We're not passive. They take your human rights away. And you're like, oh, defending Ukraine is so important.

1:36:06We're so proud to have defended Poland's territorial integrity 80 years ago. It's like, great. I'm so glad. I'm very proud of that. Apparently. But it's all a kind of displacement where you're taking your own frustrations with yourselves and your own cowardice and sort of living in this Walter Mitty world. We're like, no, actually, we're brave. We're going to defend Ukraine. It's like, what about defend yourselves against the monsters? What's wrong with defending Ukraine? It's like eighth on the list. Defend yourself. Defend your human rights. They can't put you in jail for saying naughty words.

1:36:35Sure. Period. I agree. So march on the Capitol. Get these people out. Scare them. Yeah. Do to them what you did to the Germans in Poland, which you would like to do to the Russians in eastern Ukraine?

1:36:46Piers Morgan:But the way it works, we are a democratic society. We're the democratic government. How is it democratic? Nobody wants the invasion. If a government overreaches, and I think on free speech, they've lost the plot. If they do, they will get, I can guarantee you, voted out of - When was the last time Britons voted for millions of foreigners to come to their country? Well, you don't. You vote for a government that makes decisions. You don't ever vote for that. So the biggest thing that's ever happened in your history, nobody voted for. People flag up what their policies are going to be. But actually, what it's been is a systematic failure to control our borders going back, I would say, 25 years.

1:37:21Piers Morgan:That's really what's happened. All I'm saying is it doesn't seem democratic. It doesn't seem that's what the people want at all. I agree. It's now become a massive issue. And the big issue, actually, is because they put a lot of these so-called asylum seekers, and many of them are not. They're economic seekers who want a better life here. I don't blame them. It's a great country to come to. But a lot of them are being put in really nice quality hotels while they're being processed, sometimes for two years, three years. They're living a very comfortable, luxurious life in neighbourhoods where there is real abject poverty.

1:37:56Piers Morgan:And that is what is causing a lot of unrest. And I get that. And I have great sympathy with the people who live in those areas who are really struggling to feed their kids, who are seeing these people coming in on the boats illegally and being put in fancy hotels. That has to stop. And you also have to process these people a lot quicker for their sake and for the country's. Are you a genuine asylum seeker? I never want this country to be a place that rejects genuine asylum seekers. Why? Well, because actually I believe that we have a duty to take care of people who are genuinely fleeing. How about your own people?

1:38:28Piers Morgan:What about fleeing war-torn countries where we started the war? What about people - Stop starting worse. You're doing it again. Okay, but one of us opposed the Iraq war at the time, and it wasn't you. I've been atoning for it ever since. I was one of the worst defenders. But I led the campaign here against the Iraq war. It cost me my job in the end. Good for you. I led a front page assault on that for a year. You should stick with that. You should stick with that. Well, I take a lot of, I like to look at each war in isolation. Well, I do. I get it. I get it. Piers Morgan, I know you've got a job.

1:38:57You've been so gracious in defending your country. By the way, I meant to start with this.

1:39:04Piers Morgan:Until today, I had no idea that you appeared on Dancing with the Stars. I didn't. That's AI. Somebody tweeted the clip today with two friends of mine, Lane Goodman, sadly, no longer with us, Bruno Toglioli, ripping you a new one. Of course. I don't really think their attacks had much to do with my appearance. You are many things. I'm just suspecting. Well, there was a point. you didn't really do much dancing. And as Bruno put it, the problem started when you actually danced. You know, honestly - Has your dancing improved? My dancing is pretty good. I have a little trouble taking instruction. But, you know, I would just say what they always say when the nude pictures of the porno tape emerge years later.

1:39:46I was young and I needed the money. Okay. Pierce Morgan, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for spending all this time. Welcome to my lovely country. It is a lovely country, actually.

1:39:56Piers Morgan:I just have to say that. Go and have a walk out of there. You can have a pint in the Devonshire. I'll take you to the next house we'll go. You'll love it. Thank you.

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