In short
USS Liberty attack (June 1967) and alleged cover-up; Lockwood argues Israel intentionally attacked a U.S. spy ship, violated international law, and U.S. leadership suppressed accountability.
Guest backgrounds
Bryce Lockwood, a USS Liberty survivor and Russian linguist/voice intercept supervisor aboard the NSA-equipped ship; he later reunited with other survivors and says he was wounded during the attack. Interviewer Tucker.
Key claims
Liberty was a SIGINT “spy ship” with linguists and the Univac 500; it was ordered to the eastern Mediterranean to monitor the Soviet Tu-95 threat. Lockwood says Israeli aircraft and torpedo boats attacked despite clear U.S. identification (U.S. flag, gray non-combatant markings), jammed distress frequencies, and machine-gunned life rafts. He claims the Court of Inquiry accepted “mistaken identity” and that U.S. officials (including Johnson administration) did not pursue accountability; he alleges a possible false-flag/setup and suppression of aid decisions.
Notable examples
34 Americans killed; 826 large-caliber strikes; 208 Purple Hearts/174 wounded. Lockwood describes a torpedo lifting the ship, a 40-foot starboard hole, and freeing/attempting to save sailors trapped in the wreckage; he also recounts Mayday “Fire Fox” transmission and later lack of effective rescue.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOBackground of the USS Liberty
0:45 to 4:30
Discussion on the history and purpose of the USS Liberty leading up to the 1967 attack.
“That entire area is very wealthy in natural resources, precious metals.”
Events Leading to the Attack
4:30 to 9:00
Details on the geopolitical landscape and military preparations before the attack.
“linguists, code breakers, manual morse operators, voice intercept operators, and so forth.”
The Attack on the USS Liberty
9:00 to 10:15
Survivor's account of the attack, the chaos on board, and the damage inflicted.
“which is a violation of international law.”
Survivor's Experience During the Attack
11:57 to 14:03
Continued first-hand account of the attack's intensity and the struggle for survival.
“Let me ask you, when you come under fire around 2 o 'clock, how long does it last?”
Survivor's Harrowing Experience
14:03 to 16:41
Listen to a survivor describe the chaos and trauma aboard the USS Liberty during the attack.
“When she came down and rolled towards the starboard side, There was a roughly 40-foot hole on the side.”
The Aftermath and Realizations
16:41 to 19:55
The survivor reflects on the aftermath of the attack and his delayed understanding of events.
“being alone with the unconscious sailor and nobody there but me and the sea and him.”
Mayday and Desperate Measures
19:55 to 22:26
Details about the desperate attempts to send a Mayday call during the attack.
“He gets down there just as they slammed the hat shut and bolted down.”
Mayday and Desperate Measures
24:32 to 24:58
Details about the desperate attempts to send a Mayday call during the attack.
“Determined to make the rest of summer the best of summer?”
Conspiracy Theories and Allegations
25:02 to 28:00
Exploration of theories surrounding the attack and the involvement of the U.S. government.
“So did at any point, did the torpedo boats come to the aid of survivors?”
The Attack on USS Liberty
28:00 to 34:01
Survivors recount the events of the USS Liberty attack and the aftermath.
“that included the carriers USS Saratoga, USS America, and the guided missile cruiser, the USS Little Rock, asked for Commander Lewis to come to his stateroom.”
Show all 18 chapters
Recognizing the Assailants
34:05 to 41:43
Discussion on the realization that Israel attacked the USS Liberty.
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Personal Recollections After the Attack
41:44 to 42:00
Survivor shares their experiences and emotions after returning home.
“I had to borrow a uniform from one of the Marines aboard the carrier America.”
Return to Normal Life After the Attack
42:00 to 45:02
The survivor recounts his return home and the personal struggles he faced.
“same rank as I was, loaned me a khaki uniform.”
Discovering Public Awareness of the Attack
45:02 to 48:20
The survivor learns about his experience being documented in a book and finds community among other survivors.
“He was on his way back late in the evening, listening to the National Public Radio program he used to run called Radio Reader.”
Questioning the Official Narrative
48:20 to 53:04
The survivor discusses the misconceptions and official narratives surrounding the USS Liberty attack.
“like if you learned about the uss liberty at school which you probably didn't but if you did you would be taught that this was a case of mistaken identity, that the Israelis thought it was an Egyptian ship.”
Political Implications and Accountability
53:04 to 56:00
The conversation turns to the political ramifications of the attack and ongoing support for Israel.
“70 ,000 documented killed, probably twice that many, buried in the rubble that could never be recovered from the time it's elapsed.”
Survivor's Reflections on USS Liberty
56:00 to 57:36
Survivors recount their experiences and emotions from a recent congressional event.
“roughly 15 perhaps 17 of us survivors that were there family members sitting in the gallery when he gave his 5 plus minute speech on the USS Liberty urging the Congress to take action Article 1 Section 8, U.S.”
Calls for Open Investigation
57:36 to 58:49
Discussion on the need for an open investigation into past events and accountability.
“to their obligation to humanity to do the right thing.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:04Mr. Lockwood, thank you very much for joining us. My pleasure. Tell us, the USS Liberty, many people have heard the name, they're aware there's a controversy about what happened to the ship in 1967. If you wouldn't mind starting at the beginning and telling us the story of the USS Liberty. USS Liberty was a spy ship back in the 1960s. several of the sub-Saharan African countries had just won their independence from Great Britain, Germany, Belgium, France. There was a heavy influence both from the Soviet Union and from Cuba. Cubans had a lot of troops around the area. That entire area is very wealthy in natural resources, precious metals.
0:51and the United States wanted to keep track of what was going on over there. Mind you, this is when satellites were pretty rudimentary. So the best way to gather that information is to get close. The USS Liberty was a World War II Victory-class freighter. She was originally commissioned as the SS Simmons Victory. She saw service as a cargo carrier during the Second World War, mothballed, brought back out of mothballs for the Korean War, ammunition carrier for the Korean War, back into mothballs. And in 1965, when the National Security Agency decided they needed vessels of that type, her hull was probably in the best condition of almost any of them that were in the ghost fleet or the mothball fleet.
1:46She was brought out of commission. The U.S. government spent$26 million in 1965 money. Outquipping her with the latest in intelligence collection, we could suck up literally every frequency that was being used. We had aboard her the world's largest mobile computer, the Univac 500. At that time, the world's largest. You could likely do about as much with their cell phone now. But technology has come a long ways in the last 60 years. She was equipped with linguists, cruised up and down the west coast of Africa, listening in on to whatever was going on. as war appeared to be imminent between Israel and her neighbors in 1967.
2:44The neighbors included what was then called the United Arab Republic, primarily Egypt, Syria to a lesser extent, some influence from Jordan and Libya.
2:59the administration set some F-4 photograph planes, high-performance photo intelligence planes, to a Tyrone Air Base in Spain. Those markings were obliterated The pilots were given neutral uniforms and neutral identification And set to overfly Israel's neighbors When hostilities broke out in June of 1967 The Israelis had intelligence courtesy of the U.S. administration Locating every aircraft, revetment every tank, location of personnel, where they were based, and so forth. Hostilities broke out on the 5th of June, 1967. The National Security Agency had ordered the USS Liberty to proceed from her cruise up and down the west coast of Africa with all due speed to row to Spain, take on stores, refuel, pick up six additional linguists, and proceed with haste to the eastern Mediterranean where they could monitor what was going on.
4:20She was stacked with linguists out of a crew of 294 aboard the ship. Roughly 190 were intelligence personnel. linguists, code breakers, manual morse operators, voice intercept operators, and so forth. The Soviets had a group of Tu-95 long-range bombers equipped for intelligence collection. That's Alexandria, Egypt. They told the world that they'd given those planes to Egypt and that they were manned by Egyptian troops. Such was not the case. They were Soviet troops wearing Egyptian uniforms. The task that we were given as linguists, there were three of us Russian linguists aboard her. We had three watch sections rotating eight hours each.
5:14The three of us Russian linguists that were assigned as voice intercept section supervisors, Our primary task was catching those Soviet Tu-95 intelligence aircraft at Alexandria. The aircraft would communicate in plain language Egyptian until they were airborne and over the Mediterranean Sea, change frequencies and go to plain language Russian. it was ironic that uh while we were under attack my relief came into the processing reporting room where i was and said hey sarge i got him i got him so you got who jim the roost piece really said yeah plain language russian he went back into the room where he was copying the intercept and torpedo struck him killed him
6:07hostilities broke out on the 5th of june 1967 we arrived on station on the 7th of june throughout the day of the 7th and in the early morning hours of the 8th of june we were overflown by several different israeli aircraft they flew very close to us we could plainly see the pilots We, uh, fellows that were off duty and Sonny themselves on the decks would wave to the pilots, the pilots way back. We had, uh, drill general quarters at noon on the morning of the 8th. Um, the captain came on the address system aboard the ship, the 1MC, um, and told us that there were a few things he wanted us to improve, get to our general quarter stations a little more rapidly, get the watertight doors closed a little more rapidly, secured from the general quarters.
7:06I was at my birthing spaces in the after part of the ship. I heard a tremendous noise roughly 2 o 'clock local time. I had never been under hostile fire before, but I knew that we were in trouble. Immediately dropped where I was doing, headed for my general corps station, which is below decks. Mind you, the cargo spaces in the forward part of the ship was where all of our intelligence people were, roughly 190 men. The only way out was a narrow, steep ladderway about two feet wide with a railing.
7:50The ship would ring whenever a projectile struck it. There were 826 large caliber strikes from aircraft aboard her. A 40 millimeter cannon fire, 30 millimeter cannon fire, heat seeking rockets, napalm. On either side of the ship or starboard, there were racks that contained life rafts with a charge. You jerk on a cord and charge it, go off and fire these life rafts into the sea. Both of those were napalm. The captain's gig was riddled with rocket fire. The Liberty Launch was riddled with rocket fire. basically no means of getting any survivors off.
8:52The Israelis were jamming our distress frequencies, which was a violation of international law. They were using unmatched aircraft, which is a violation of international law.
9:05During the Court of Inquiry, which was conducted after the attack was over with, ordered by the JOS administration, conducted by three-star Admiral Isaac Kidd. The Israelis said that they had mistaken us for an Egyptian ship, the El Kassir. The El Kassir was a World War I horse transport. Her only armament was a four-inch muzzle-loading cannon. the Israelis claimed that they were being shelled from the sea we were the only ship in the vicinity we had no capacity of shelling anything the bottom line was the Israelis had captured an entire Egyptian brigade they were blowing up the captured ammunition and that's what the explosions were that they claimed was fire from the sea quite obviously that was not possible from the Elkacir or from us what can you do to monitor important parts of your life that you can't always keep your eyes on things like the far corners of a job site or ranch or let's say you've got a boat dock somewhere and you can't check on it every day cellular security cameras from defend are the answer these cameras are very easy to install.
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11:48Save on the stay. Oh, and free waffles are yours to claim. Book direct at storieshiltales.com Let me ask you, when you come under fire around 2 o 'clock, how long does it last? There are various testimonies about that. The claimed air attack lasted about 25 minutes. But, of course, when you're under fire and try to survive, it seems a lot longer. and as I mentioned earlier, the entire ship would ring with each shell of Strucker. The captain came on the 1MC and said, brace yourselves, torpedo attack, starboard side. Well, that's where I was located. My friend Ronnie Campbell was sitting there at a desk, and he said, well, they hit us with everything else.
12:42What else can they hit us with? The division officer, Lieutenant Bennett, stuck his head in a hatchet, and he said, Sergeant Lock, would you come in a minute, please? I stepped out into the passageway. I ran down the center of the ship, and he got me in a conversation with Lieutenant Commander David Lewis, who was a senior research officer aboard the ship, about getting these ditching bags topside pitched over in the sea. We had large canvas bags, brass furls on the sides, lead weight in the bottom. The idea was all the classified information that we had, get them into these ditching bags, the top side, pitch into the sea.
13:21Should they be recovered by the time they could be, any information in them would be useless. When there was a sudden blinding, flash of flame, tremendous loud noise, not me to the deck, I was kind of semi-conscious. I'm thinking to myself, well, Lord, I guess this is it. I guess I'm coming home at least lowest. which my kids are taking care of, which is my life. I felt something cold. I looked down and the water was gushing in. I didn't find out what had actually taken place so many years later. Some of the sailors told me that when the torpedo struck, it literally lifted the ship out of the water and set her back down.
14:09When she came down and rolled towards the starboard side, There was a roughly 40-foot hole on the side. That water was gushing in. I heard a moan behind me, struggling at my feet. There was a sailor trapped there in the wreckage. His name was Joe Lantini. I didn't know who that was until 25 years later. Joe was one of the communicators that worked with the teletype equipment. We weren't getting anything out. couldn't understand why we weren't getting Mayday out and weren't getting any aid. And a piece of shrapnel from a rocket had penetrated the ship and struck him in the left thigh. Joe was bleeding profusely.
14:56He sat there on the deck and leaned up against the ladderway, the only way out, and was putting a tourniquet on that wound when the torpedo struck. Our office spaces were separated by sheet steel bulkheads. that bulkhead just mushroomed out, caught him in his left knee upturned, and literally made toothpicks out of his femur bone. I'm trying to pull him loose. The water was coming up pretty rapidly. I said, come on, you got to help me. I can't do it by myself. Come on, get your legs under me and push. I didn't realize his left leg was smashed. but I felt I get his right leg out and he pushed just enough where I could free him, though he was still partially tangled up in that wreckage.
15:44By that time, the water was within a foot and a half of the overhead. There were some pipes that carried cabling and power and so forth that was hanging from the overhead. I said, here, get a hold of these pipes. About that time, I saw a body floating out towards a hole. I reached down with my right arm and got an arm around him, tried to hold his head above water. I heard the division officer of Lieutenant Bennett at the top of the ladder way say, this Mr. Bennett opened this hatch. There was a lot of confusion. You can imagine roughly 190 people crammed into that space in fear of their lives.
16:26A lot of shouting. I howl as loudly as I could, knock it off if y 'all will settle down. none of us will get out here alive. That's the last thing I remember. I apparently passed out. The next thing I recall was being alone with the unconscious sailor and nobody there but me and the sea and him. The ship was rolling. The torpedo had ruptured one of the fuel tanks, which is there on the starboard side. that was the heavy oil that powered the ship it's a stinking oil that oil was everywhere and oil watered up mix of course you can imagine just about everything was coated with it I tried to start up the ladder way with this unconscious sailor slipped dropped him he's going back out the whole way got him got back started back up the ladder way about half or two-thirds the way up the ladder way.
17:31A piece of shrapnel from the torpedo had bent in the railing, so there's only a space, oh, roughly a foot wide. Got to that point, slipped, dropped him again, going back out the hole, and that got him back up the ladder way again. Got up to the top, and the hatch was sealed shut. Trying to hold his head above water, pound on the hatch, and the sailor named Bobby Schnell, There were dogs that held the hatch sealer shut around a rubber gasket and about an eight-inch high metal seal. Oh, I'm guessing probably a dozen large bolts that bolted it down. He got a wrench, knocked those nuts loose and opened the hatch, let me out.
18:21I tried to drag his sailor out, dropped him, tried to drag him again. can't quite get him out trying to turn him over his foot caught in the chain that was holding the prop or the hatch open and literally I was trying to drag his leg off Phil Turney was one of the damage control people who was standing here he said wait a minute he got his foot caught he freed his foot he said the captain is ordered to prepare to abandon ship he said you need to get a life vest on there's been there to have a life vest and I said get a life vest on put one on him and they're doing triage at the Mestex and after part of the ship said need to get him back there triage on I tried to pick him up pretty weak dropped him tried to pick him up again dropped him again um years later when I found out who he was it was some 30 years before I even found out who he was.
19:23We were sitting in his kitchen Sunday morning in Chicago, and his family is together. I don't want to know what had happened to Dad. I'm trying to tell him, and his name was Dave McFagan, and he kind of blurted out, said, I wouldn't be hurt nearly as bad if you wouldn't have dropped me so many times. He had been topside in the rocket from one of the air attacks that exploded very close to him and flying it back into the bulkhead. But he's wounded from that. He's in a lot of pain. He's thinking, I've got to get to my GQ station. His GQ station was down below decks. He gets down there just as they slammed the hat shut and bolted down.
20:03He's sitting on the ladder way with his head in his hands, hurting badly when the torpedo struck. Slammed him back into the ladder way and made a mess out of his spine. he's still alive but barely and confined to a wheelchair now uh Joe Lantini passed away from a heart attack some three years ago uh the book Assault on the Liberty credits me with diving underwater and freeing Joe Lantini's leg that was actually a sailor named Bobby Snell that did that freed his leg, carried him topside there was uh some conversation that I carried a man out, went back down. Senior enlisted man, Stan White, said, it's hard you can't go back down there.
20:59Stan has since passed away too, but he told me, he said, you gave me a kind of a blank stare and went back down. I don't recall any of that. I think there's a good possibility. I was confused with someone else, but the Navy Marine Corps uniform is a different color.
21:18we were told to go to the radio room on the port side of the ship. I was lying on the deck in a radio room, and I couldn't understand why we weren't getting any hay. There was machine gunning going on. The motor torpedo boats were circling the ship, riddling us with heavy machine gun fire. There were 3 ,100 heavy-to-caliber machine gun strikes on the ship.
21:56One of the radio men figured out that when they were shooting rockets at us, they couldn't jam our distress frequencies because the family would have screwed up the flight of the rockets. But in a brief period when those rockets were being fired, this mayday went out. Fire Fox! Fire Fox! This is Rock Star! Rock Star! Under attack by unidentified surface and air units require immediate assistance. As soon as that mayday was acknowledged, the shooting stopped. I saw some sailors carry three inflatable life rats through the radio room. heard them fall into the sea there were lines attached to keep them from floating away I heard a revving of engines more machine gun fire one of those sailors came back through the radio room and he said I don't know what we're going to do now they've riddled what we had left it is my understanding that machine gun fire severed the line it was holding one of those life rafts the torpedo boat came in picked it up plane labeled US Navy can't be proven I'd have no idea but I heard a rumor that that life raft and the ship's wheel from the torpedo boat that fired the fatal torpedo are in the Israeli Naval War Museum at Haifa as trophies of war America is exceptional because in this country, we know that our rights come from God, not the government.
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24:51Made right here in Maine to carry all your summer essentials since 1944. L.L. Bean. Be an outsider. Visit llbean.com to learn more. Tax deductible. So did at any point, did the torpedo boats come to the aid of survivors? When the Israelis stopped firing on the Liberty after your Mayday call was received, did they help in any way, the survivors? Actually, I heard some helicopters overhead. I did not see them myself, but the deck crew told me that two large Armored helicopters came over fully loaded with armed troops, automatic weapons, hand grenades. It seems fairly obvious. The idea was, take the ship, kill everyone aboard it, no survivors.
25:50We think there's a very good possibility that we were set up by our own government. The president, Lyndon Bates Johnson, was very friendly towards Israel. His predecessor, John F. Kennedy, had actually given a speech about the necessity for discourse between the Palestinians and Israelis about getting some 700 ,000 refugees from the so-called War of Independence of Israel in 1947-48. They were driven from their homes. The Israelis said they were voluntarily left. My personal opinion is there was nothing voluntary about it. They were told to leave or be destroyed. The Kennedy conversation was to have at least a portion of those refugees be allowed to return to their ancestral homes.
26:58as a result of our Congress and our President doing nothing about the attack on the OSS liberty. The Court of Inquiry accepted the Israelis' excuse that it was a case of mistaken identity. The case was closed. As a result of our doing nothing, Israel realized they could do whatever they wanted. The United States Congress, the United States Administration would say nothing do nothing. I'm sorry to interrupt. I just want to go back to what you said about your belief that the Johnson administration knew that this attack was coming on the Liberty. Why do you think they would have allowed that?
27:42Commander Lewis, who was a senior intelligence officer, board a ship, and I both had pretty much the same wounds. My glasses protected my face from debris. His eyes were sealed shut. We were both medevaced off to the carrier America. Admiral Lawrence Larry Geist, who was the task force 6th commanding officer, that included the carriers USS Saratoga, USS America, and the guided missile cruiser, the USS Little Rock, asked for Commander Lewis to come to his stateroom. This was several days after the attack had taken place. He swore Mr. Lewis to secrecy until after his death, told him that he had ordered aircraft to come to our aid.
28:32Planes were launched from the USS Saratoga. They had nuclear weapons aboard them. Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara ordered them returned. returned, both Admiral Geis and skipper of the Saratoga, Captain Joseph Tully, figured out that that was probably because there were nuclear weapons aboard them. They were recovered. Conventional aircraft with conventional weapons were relaunched to come to our aid. Captain Tully re-notified Washington. Secretary of Defense McNamara came on the circuit again and ordered those aircraft returned. Admiral Guise said, I want to exercise my authority and hear that from higher authority.
29:15Well, the only higher authority was the president. This is the conversation that was related to David Lewis from Admiral Guise. The president said, get those aircraft back. I will not have my allies embarrassed. They were using unmarked aircraft and we did not know who was attacking us. How did the President know? The number two man in the US CIA at the time was a gentleman named James Angleton. James Angleton was not only the number two man in US Central Intelligence Agency, AA Israeli Mossad. Many of us survivors believe that we were set up by our own government. False flag operation. Sink the ship.
30:13No survivors. Blame it on Egypt. Get the United States involved on the side of Israel against their neighbors. And excuse me, Tucker, what's happening now? the the head of counterintelligence that you you mentioned james jesus angleton uh was also clearly involved in the kennedy assassination um the beneficiary of which was of course lyndon johnson and israel uh i that's not my comprehension chucker yeah i i don't doubt that yeah well it's pretty clear, I think, from documents that have subsequently been released. So how many, just to end the, to wrap up the story of what actually happened that day, how many Americans were killed in the attack?
31:06There were 34 Americans killed. One civilian, Alan Blue, he was an Arabic linguist from National Security Agency. The two Marines were both killed, Sergeant Jack Raper, Corporal Ed Reynmeyer, they were both Arabic linguists. And the mounts of the 31 were all sailors. They were all linguists, manual force intercept operators.
31:3534 killed. There were 208 Purple Hearts awarded, 174 wounded. Several of the crewmen that were wounded were never awarded Purple Hearts.
31:53Jack Beattie he was a machinist who was working on the he was changing oil on the Liberty launch the enlisted launch when the air attack took place he had shrapnel on the back he said he didn't find out about too many years later when the veterans administration performed an x-ray on a skull
Read the full transcript
32:18there was another Navy Chief Joe last name's such as mine right now he had one of those heavy caliber strikes in his left calf he was a Boy Scout instructor new first aid took that projectile out of his leg himself wrapped himself up he was never awarded a purple heart There were others. Cost of living is already making it hard to live here, and it's not getting any better. Unfortunately, it's likely to get worse, and a lot of Americans fill the gap with credit cards, not just for fancy dinners, but to cover things like groceries and bills. That is a disaster. It's understandable, but don't go down that road because there is a tax, in effect a survival tax, of 20 % interest or more.
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34:35When did you find out it was the Israelis who'd attacked the ship? Not until the next morning in my own recollection. The aircraft were all unmarked. The torpedo boats were flying the Star of David. One of the officers that was on the deck happened to be Jewish. When he saw the Star of David flag, I understand he broke out in tears. The torpedo boats that fired machine guns at the Liberty, I mean, they must have been close enough to see the American flag flying over the ship. Yes. Our initial flight was flying from Flagstaff at the back of the main mast. That was knocked down in one of the first air attacks.
35:33our signalman ran that back up again it was knocked down again and then he ran up the holiday flag which is 5 feet by 8 feet it's the largest flag we had aboard ship that flag was literally riddled with thropnel he ran that up on the one of the port signal arms which is on the port side But we had a good breeze blowing that day. The flag was out there. Pretty obvious. Egyptian ships are painted black with hall markings in Arabic script. Every highway sign in Israel is in Hebrew, Arabic script, and English lettering. So that excuse falls away. US ships are painted gray with hallmarkings and English lettering our hallmarking was GTR 5 which stands for General Tactical Research the 5th, the newest of her class Tactical Research means that she's a non-combatant it's a violation of international law to fire on non-combatants the Israelis were wriggling her life rafts with machine gun fire that's a violation of international law The irony of that is that came about as a result of refugee ships being machine gunned by Nazi wolf packs during World War II.
37:04What did your commanding officers tell you about the motive for this attack? So you're lying, recovering, you've got wounds to your face and your hands. And someone at some point explains to you why this happened. What did that person say?
37:24Honestly, I didn't hear anything. Years later when I reconnected with some of the crew, and it was well over 20 years later before I reconnected with any of the crew. I say it was 1982 before I reconnected with any of the crew, so this is, what, 15 years afterwards.
37:48I honestly didn't know most of us were pro-Israel that were aboard the ship it's kind of ironic one of our analysts
38:04he was processing the United Arab Republic traffic that we were getting he made a small UAR flag and had that stuck in his outbasket most of the crew were smoking back then they'd walk by and say hey Rich your herbs aren't doing so well and they'd set fire to his flag and he'd say cut that out put it out one of the sailors had made a huge Star David out of telltite paper that was pasted up on the starboard bulkhead that Israeli torpedo struck with a few feet of that Star David flag did you talk about this after did you do interviews with the media did you tell your friends your family like how did you respond to this once you were my situation was a little different i was on temporary assignment from my home base in bremmerhaven germany as 10 days aboard the carrier america uh flown back to uh luca malta where the ship was dry docked I was one more day aboard her there.
39:14This guy, Veronica, didn't have a place to sleep. And one of the sailors said, I'll go up to sit back and talk to Dr. Van Lane. He said, he'll find you a place to sleep up there. We're kind of chatting. It was getting long late in the afternoon. And he said, you're welcome. There were three bunks there. He said, you're welcome to sleep in whichever one you want. I said, I hope that doesn't get to stinking in. What's that, Tom? There was a box in the corner roughly 18 inches square. It was labeled unidentified human body parts. That's what's buried in the mass grave in Arlington National Cemetery.
39:54I slept over that night. Two of the men that worked for me were in that box. What was left of that? were you told by the the u.s military by the marine corps by the navy uh not to talk about this um well mind you we're in intelligence business saying just don't talk about it there's an old saying what you see here what you say here when you leave here leave it here uh i did not talk about it outside of secure spaces when i got back to my home base in Bremerhaven, I was put on 12 on, 12 off watch. I talked about it rather freely in the secure spaces. My wife didn't know what happened to me. I was not supposed to tell him when I was aboard this ship, but no one bothered to tell me I wasn't.
40:48When I first got aboard her, the petty officer of the deck was a longtime friend of mine, Ronnie Campbell. I said, Ronnie, I need to let Lois know where I'm at. can you give me the address of shit well he gave me the fbo address and i got a postcard wrote it on told my wife i'd be aboard her don't know how long i'll let you know sometime in the future dropped it in the mail she'd received that card no i was aboard it um on the 9th of june a dear friend of hers that lived across the street in bremerhaven waved to her to come over. She went over and said, did you hear about that U.S. ship being attacked?
41:28I said, oh. She said, yeah, U.S.S. Liberty. Well, I said, I think Bryce is aboard that ship. Well, that set a panic button.
41:43When I got back home, I was a mess. I had to borrow a uniform from one of the Marines aboard the carrier America. There happened to be a African-American, Marine, same builder I was, real gentleman, same rank as I was, loaned me a khaki uniform. I had to wear that uniform the next five days. Part of that was when I got back to the ship, that oil was everywhere. Where you went, you get drops of that oil all over you. So I stunk from that. I had fever blisters in my face, and this yellowish pus was oozing out, dripping over the front of me. the morning I got back couldn't get in the apartment second floor apartment the neighbor Betty Bryant came to the door said oh Bryce said the lawyer went out to the base to get the mail said come on in I'll get you a cup of coffee she sent me around behind the door gave me a cup of coffee a while later she said oh here she is now well she'd just gotten the mail and she'd just gotten a letter from her mother that her grandfather passed away My wife didn't get along very well with her mother, but she was her grandfather's pride and joy.
43:01She's all broken up about that. Betty says, Lord, you need to come in here. Three kids are there. See, Marsha, our oldest one, was six. Dorothy was four. John was three. And I was the ugliest mess. Stumped to high heavens. kids are screaming my wife crying the marine commander calls me to his office the next day he says best thing for you to do to forget about this is go to work put me on 12 hours on 12 hours off watch standing I had to go to the doctor on my time off get my wounds taken care of the navy set a JAG officer lieutenant commander all the way from Washington with a sheaf of papers for him to sign.
43:55He never bothered to tell me personally, you are not to talk about this. I talked about it freely in the secure spaces because he felt many of them had been aboard the Liberty or ships of her class doing the same task. If they weren't, they would be in the near future, likelihood. So they all were aware of it. So I talked freely about it, but I did not tell my wife anything. she had no idea what was wrong with me i'd wake up screaming and crying and she had no idea and it wasn't until um i think it was january of 1981 i was in bible college in springfield missouri class was broken up over the christmas holidays on sitting in homilinics class waiting for the class to start on Monday morning, and one of my classmates comes in.
44:54He says, Bryce, were you aboard a ship with a torpedo? I said, how did you know about that? Well, he had been in Texas over Christmas holiday. He was on his way back late in the evening, listening to the National Public Radio program he used to run called Radio Reader. they were reading a book by James M. Ennis Jr. Salt on the Liberty and it was on page 86 the narration about what I had done that day and my name was there and it wasn't until I think the following year I'd taken a position as assistant pastor in a church in Key West and the city library librarian was a member of the church. And I asked her if she had a copy of that book.
45:44She said, yeah, but there's a six-month-long waiting list for us. Well, put me on the list. When it became available, I immediately wrote a letter to random house publishers and said I'd like to get a hold of the author, James Ennis. They said, well, we can't give you his information, but we'll forward your letter to him. Just a few days after that, I got a thick packet of mail from Mr. Ennis. had copies of the the ship had a newsletter that they put out and mailed to all the crew but they didn't know where I was until then back issues a list of survivors their contact information I immediately started calling the crew but that wasn't until I think 1986 we had a reunion in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
46:42That was the first one that I went to. There was a library in Grafton, Wisconsin, about 30 miles north of Milwaukee. The town had built a new high school. The old high school was an old building, roughly a century old, but perfectly serviceable. The town wanted to make that a public library. So they had to committee to raise funds. There are a couple of industrial donors at Grove Brothers. Tech Group was one of them. They gave a six-figure donation, mind you, 40 years ago. It was a pretty high sum of money. So the committee said, well, we'll give you the privilege of naming the library. And he said, well, I'd like that to be named the USS Liberty Memorial Library.
47:41well during World War II not far from Grafton, Wisconsin was a Nazi youth camp
47:53could you imagine what that implied for the Jewish population of the city of Milwaukee that raised a firestorm
48:05but it went forward and to the best of my knowledge there was no violence well and to this day it's still the uss liberty so that was 19 years after the attack and and i remember 1986 7 that at that time um the consensus was that this was an accident like if you learned about the uss liberty at school which you probably didn't but if you did you would be taught that this was a case of mistaken identity, that the Israelis thought it was an Egyptian ship. Well, I suppose you could claim that the Israeli pilots were colorblind. The Egyptian ships are painted black. Ours are painted gray. You can't jam the structure frequencies by accident.
48:54You must know your target. So that falls by the away side. The machine gunning and the life rafts, that's pretty obvious. That's a violation of accepted law.
49:12How did it make you feel as a survivor of the attack to hear people dismiss it as a case of mistaken identity? Well, at that time, I had a small trucking company, and you pretty well had to work around the clock. I had a grain haul in business, two trucks, three trailers. When I wasn't booking loads, I was hauling loads. I wasn't booking or hauling loads. I was under it, changing the oil or fixing this or fixing that. I barely had time to think. It really wasn't until sometime after that where I happened to get a job with a union company. I had a little more income coming in. We were able to attend a reunion in Washington, D.C., and that's where I began to really find out about Penalty.
50:03taking place that was um later in the 1980s early 90s and what what did you find out
50:17um i didn't know the names of any fells that i pulled out or was credited with saving their lives and joe lentini um even though i kept him from brownie i didn't actually get him out of there and dave mcfagan it was not until uh 1997 a reunion 1997 i found out who that was it's pretty ironic uh he was in the hospital at naples italy he'd taken some travel in his privates doctors told me he'd probably never have any more children well he did have he had a boy and a girl at that reunion one of the other fellows that I thought that I had brought out of there was Harold Six, Gene Six Gene was his nickname and he and I were having a beer kind of joking around and someone else came in the tub in the bathroom was full of ice water and beer we were in there yakking and someone came in and said hey Sarge there's another guy here too who saved his life really went out into the other room and there's dave mcfagan in a wheelchair was daughter born later after the attack pushing him in a wheelchair now uh the the anniversary the 59th anniversary of the attack on the liberty was just the other day within the last week and it was a topic that was discussed in public and you heard people defend the israeli government by saying they didn't know it was an American ship and anyone who says otherwise is an anti-Semite, hates Jews.
52:00How would you respond to that? Anyone who knows anything about international recognition of ships at sea
52:10would conclude differently, would have to conclude differently. It's very obvious that it was a dual-a-vert attack. Dave Lewis, prior to his death, was giving an interview and he said, if it was an attack, it was a best planned attack in the military. The ammunition that they were using, the targets that they were doing, heat-seeking missiles designed to knock out all of our heavy transmitting antennas. It had to all be planned in advance.
52:49The upshot, in my opinion, of the whole thing, Israel is grabbing Palestinian lands.
53:03Gaza Strip, in total rubble. 70 ,000 documented killed, probably twice that many, buried in the rubble that could never be recovered from the time it's elapsed. United States supplying the bombs Israel invading their neighbors to the north Lebanon there are a million Palestinians in the Gaza Strip homeless as a result of Israel's actions Lebanon southern Lebanon whole towns destroyed and leveled a million Lebanese refugees without a home Where is the humanity? Shouldn't that be on the conscience of every American that we're supplying the bonds? That we're supplying Israel with$3.8 billion a year in foreign aid?
54:06Shouldn't that shake our conscience? well if our leaders were able to ignore an attack on an american vessel the the liberty almost 60 years ago clearly this is not a normal relationship between the united states and israel what country ignores an attack on its own navy tucker in 2005 stephen rosen who was then a senior official with the american israeli political affairs committee was dying with Jeffrey Goldberg at that time. He was with the New Yorker magazine. I believe he's with Atlantic magazine now. He said to Jeffrey, you see this napkin in 24 hours. I can have the signature of 70 senators on this napkin.
55:05does that tell you something about who runs america how does that make you feel as someone who is wounded in the service of the u.s military in the service of the united states disgusted
55:25yeah why are you saying about thomas massey uh yeah His political career was over. The president and his political affairs supporters literally threw millions of dollars at Thomas Massey's primary campaign and got him pitched off the ballot. and Congress of Nassi stuck his neck out by speaking publicly from the floor of the United States Congress there were roughly 15 perhaps 17 of us survivors that were there family members sitting in the gallery when he gave his 5 plus minute speech on the USS Liberty urging the Congress to take action Article 1 Section 8, U.S. Constitution to, this is not exact wording, investigate acts of piracy on the high seas and offenses against the law of nations.
56:32And Congress has ignored that for the past 59 years. Now here, Thomas Massey sticks his neck out. The gentleman took us all to lunch afterwards at the Bull Feather Restaurant there in Washington. I think that name is rather ironic. Bullshit Bull Feathers. Treated us to lunch. Personally met each one of us. While we were there, that day's Speaker Pro Tem of the Congress, Daryl Issa, came in, personally shook hands with every crew member, introduced himself around, made a few jokes about that jarhead it was of order. Another congressman also came in, Congressman McGuire. Same thing, introduced themselves around.
57:26It left me with a wonderful feeling. Perhaps something can be done after 59 years to wake Congress up to their obligation to humanity to do the right thing. What would you like to see Congress do? An open investigation. While some of us are still alive to testify. Let all the dirty laundry hang out there. If there are charges to be charged, bring them forward. Just air it out and let the American people, the world's public at large, make up their own. when they see the facts laid bare. It's the same thing with the Epstein files. Hiding them. Let it hang out. Let us all look at it. If someone's guilty, fine, charge them.
58:29Sure, there's going to be some big-time names. Sure, there's going to be some billionaires involved. I'm just a little guy. I'm not even a millionaire. Fine, come get me. Do you think that'll happen? I don't know. Don't care. Well, I'm grateful you did this interview, Mr. Lockwood. Oh, Tucker, this is such an honor. It's an honor for me.
From the publisher
USS Liberty deniers will say Israel’s 1967 attack on the U.S. spy ship was a total accident. Marine Staff Sergeant Bryce Lockwood was on the Liberty and says there’s no doubt Israel meant to kill every American on board. (00:00) The Story of the USS Liberty
(11:14) What Really Happened During the Attack?
(29:14) How Many Americans Were Killed in the Attack?
(32:51) When Did Lockwood Realize the Attack Came From the Israelis?
(47:25) The People Dismissing the Attack as a Mistake
Sgt. Bryce Lockwood is a retired United States Marine Corps veteran and one of the last surviving crew members of the USS Liberty. A Russian linguist and intelligence specialist, he was aboard the virtually unarmed intelligence ship when it was attacked by Israeli forces on June 8, 1967, during the Six-Day War. Despite suffering severe burns, he displayed extraordinary heroism by rescuing three trapped sailors from flooded compartments below deck, earning the Silver Star for gallantry and the Purple Heart for his wounds. He later served in Vietnam and retired as a Gunnery Sergeant.
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