20Sales: ElevenLabs: Why We Set a 20x Sales Quota | How to Structure Sales Compensation Plans | Customer Success: 'Total BS' or Growth Engine? | Building an AI Sales Machine: What Tools & Tactics Must CROs Adopt Today with Carles Reina

24:48How am I doing it for next year being very creative so that I can start putting the right bets? That's what being my quota this year. You'll hit a billion in revenue by end of year. Who knows? I would love to hit a billion dollars in revenues by the end of the year. we have some targets internally. It would be great if we can do it. If not, it will be a little bit later. That's fine. That's absolutely fine. Any big lessons on forecasting? It's freaking hard to do. It's just impossible. We forecast and then we realize usually that we would just like - But that's different. Traditional sales leaders on the show for the last three or four years because I've done 20 sales.

25:22I've been like, oh, I can pretty much get there to three to 5%. Yes. I'm like, wow, now. Impossible. I have a fucking clue. But it's impossible if you think about it from an experimentation perspective. And I always tell my team, like, I want us to test as many things as possible. I only need one of those ones to work really well to give me another$100 million in revenues, or$200 or$300. So when you say things, do you mean like channels, like affiliates, like partners, like referrals, or do you mean like products? Channels, products, ideas, should we be pitching services? And I was like in a meeting with a CEO of an airline very recently, a few days back, and we were talking about like agents and all of that stuff.

26:01And then at some point he was like, but Carlos, like everyone keeps pitching me. I get over a hundred pitches every week of pitch like companies doing like customer support. I don't want to have another pitch on that. And I was like, and you're a hundred percent right. And I hate it. Like, actually don't get me wrong. We do it and we do it really fucking well. But at the same time, it's boring. The majority of companies will start with the bottom line optimization. So what's boring, customer support? Customer support optimization for me is like, yes, Your mindset is like, yeah, I want to automate, increase a bunch of percentage point, my profitability.

26:33So that's what I'm focusing. And that's great. Don't get me wrong. It is fantastic. What I'm actually interested is like, how do we figure out a way to partner with a company and create a lapse area? So it's company X lapse so that we can figure out a way for them to generate new revenue opportunities for them. That's what actually makes me passionate. But we have to prove that that is the right thing. So that is one of the experiments. And I'm spending a lot of time these days on like, how do we prove that the idea of labs for companies where we essentially are their consultants and help them build those agents that will generate top line revenue with new ideas, new products, is actually something that we can scale in general, like hundreds of millions.

27:11How do you think about the tradeoff between doing that? Well, it's maybe a little bit more low margin, given the fact that it's quite hands on. I'm thinking like British Airways Labs, where you have amazing voice agents who call you up and are very personalized, give you tips on how to enjoy New York with your wife. Yeah. Great. Super nice idea. may get more money from it boom versus actually we can do it avatars and we can compete with all the avatar companies higher margin a very adjacent product i don't know i think like i would rather do things that are actually much more complex than the ones that actually like less complex i think we are here as like startups and and bcs to the difficult things i don't believe in like doing the short path like things are actually like much easier if someone is doing it and someone is like super good maybe we should be buying the company great or maybe we should just partner with them.

27:53Fantastic, right? Let's do the things that no one is doing. That is what makes me passionate. And that is what a good CRO, I think, needs to be doing, because we're not here to do easy stuff. I think customer support is uninvestable today. And I get so much shit on Twitter for this because everyone shits on them. But I'm like, CRO and Dakagon, obviously, two market leaders in terms of brand and how much money they've raised. And you've got 16 providers who've raised over 75 million in the last 18 months. And you've got all the incumbents and your Salesforce and Atlassian. and then your intercoms and Zendesk and everyone in between.

28:25OpenAI will do a customer support product if they continue doing new products. I'm not quite sure where that product roadmap is. Maybe it was going to happen. Maybe not anymore. Do you agree it's not investable? I would not personally invest, but I also think that the opportunity for companies that are established and growing a lot to go into that space is good. It's big, right? Why doesn't 11 Labs do it? We do. We do customer support, and the majority of our customers starts with customer support, and we make an absolute ton of money on that. And the ROI for our customers that like use us for customer support is insane.

28:58Insane. Like what percent of your revenue is customer support? Give it 20, 30, 40. We don't share that, but I think like it works really well. It's like the fastest product in terms of revenues that we've ever had. It's just insane. But I also think like you look at like all of our competitors, like you mentioned Sierra, Deck, Gone, and all of the other ones. We power all of them. So we actually make money off like literally customer support with our agents platform, but also we make money from our API foundational model layer across the board. So that's the good thing about Eleven Labs that is like spread so widely.

29:31How do you think about empowering your competitors? I think like it gets to a point where like, I think like fundamentally, like we've been very happy to actually support the entire infrastructure layer because we believe that like the opportunity in the market was like way bigger than anyone was expecting, right? Boys and interactions with humans and human technology interaction, like it is the fundamental piece that was missing in the entire puzzle. Now you end up having a situation where like similar to, I don't know, like a NVIDIA that was like competing with like powering everyone, but also competing with everyone, right?

30:06I think that's actually fine. Like it's okay that the market is big enough for multiple companies to coexist and then try to target the same customers. I'm not gonna deny it. I think like also means that like everyone needs to be aware that that will happen. So when we launch our agents product, I called the biggest platforms, agents platform that were operating in our platform. And I told them like, guys, FYI, in the next couple of months, we're going to be launching our agents product. We're going to be competing with you. Just wanted to make sure that like, you're okay with this. I wanted to make sure that like, you understand that like, we are going to this space.

30:39And the funny part was like, all of the founders that I interacted with telling them this, they were like, yeah, welcome on board. That's okay. And it's good because like if you're able to actually be transparent with that and say like, hey, I'm going to be competing with you. But at the same time, I'm partnering. And in some deals, you will win it. And in some deals, I will win it. And in some deals, we will partner together. That's when you end up creating a good ecosystem in parallel. So I think you have to be unwaveringly aggressive now on BD and sales. Because I think you have an 18 to 24 month period where CIOs, CISOs are like, hey, we have to have it.

31:10We have to have a message for it. That won't last forever. Do you agree? 100%. And our team is dedicated to that. It's like everyone is like selling agents left and right. We've had the best quota ever. It's been fantastic. But people are incentivized to sell agents because we know like we are competing with other companies. And sometimes those companies that end up complaining to us being like, why are you competing with me when you're also like selling me? But the reality is like, hey, if you'd pay me like$1 and I could be charging the end customer like or you're charging the end customer$20, then I'm like, I mean, maybe I'm doing something wrong here as well.

31:43I totally get that. One of my dear friends is Jason Lemkin, who built a game, and he used Eleven Labs for The Voice. And he was like, it was great. Amazing. It was such a beautiful product. So amazing. So amazing. Fuck, it was expensive. And then people started using it, and it became even more expensive. And he's like, this will be the year of substitution, where you try a great product like Eleven Labs. It's amazing. And then you go, oh, fuck, it's expensive. And then you substitute for the cheaper, but 80 % of it. Do you think that's true? No. I think there was a lot of conversations last year.

32:14and i actually and i've i've evolved my mind on all of these things and of course it will continue to evolve right but a lot of people were talking last year about like oh open source models are going to take over like even on the ai voices space like you're going to get commoditized and so on and for a period of time i kind of believed it i was like yeah i mean there is a point in time like open source models will take over like it will be fully commoditized great like we just need to continue going deeper on the product integrations full verticalization distribution all of the stuff. Great. And what I ended up realizing is like, even if open source models become extremely good at the same quality level that we have, like it is the additional hassle, it is the additional components that like make it very difficult for any organization.

32:57So if you're a bank already, you might want to play with the idea of what if I use open source models? The problem is that those open source models are not built for the skill that you would want. You would still need to maintain them. You would still need to actually make them operational. And 11 Labs actually takes that away from you. And 11 Labs agent takes that away from building the entire orchestration and managing it. Everyone can be building anything from scratch. It's just, do you have the time and do you have the resources? And if the priority in the company changes, are you going to be able to continue adjusting and making sure that you get the right funding in there?

33:27And I don't think that is true. And we're seeing it all around the world. We're like, yeah, we could go with open source models. Excellent, do it. You try to operationalize it and they've lost three months and then they come back. It's interesting. 11 Labs is almost a bit like open AI or anthropic in the way that it's like, it's this foundational layer and you can go in any strategic product direction you want from that foundational layer. There's this LLM, so there's this voice. And the question is, will I be Claudified, so to speak? Then there's a question of, will I be 11 Labsified? You can do SDR agents with voice.

34:00How do you think about weighing that off in terms of where your product direction goes? I think it's like it's an evolving question all the time. It's not that simple to decide. Do you have verticalized sales teams? We have verticalized sales teams right now in specific markets. Markets that are much bigger or markets that are much more mature, 100%. We have people that only do like VFSI, only teams that do like healthcare. What does it take to do vertical sales teams? And what have been your big lessons on what mistakes people make? So I will give you an example. In India, I tried to implement vertical sales team too early and essentially kind of depressed the revenues for a single quota.

34:38And it was like an absolute disaster. And then I realized like, no, let's change it. What happened there then? You divided everyone and then it didn't work? It didn't work because A, people were not passionate enough. B, you needed a long time to actually close some of the biggest sales. And C, the team was way too small. And if you do it early on, if you segment too early, then you fundamentally end up screwing things up. So what I realized, like I have this placeholder in my calendar every single week that is called pipeline construction. And that pipeline construction, it's like similar to like portfolio construction that you're familiar with.

35:11But for me, it's like pipeline construction. How do I take a VC term and put it in like in my mindset? How do I design the perfect pipeline for any given market and segment? And that's when you start thinking, it's like, actually, you need like the liquidity, but you also need the big whales. So each one of my account execs needs to have the ability of like closing big whales, specifically on the enterprise segment, but also having like liquidity in the pipeline so that they don't lose their confidence because people were losing their confidence. Towards me, you have pipeline construction. What's the next subsequent step?

35:42You break out how many sellers you have in that market? Correct. Yes. So how many sellers? Let's say we have 20. Let's say 20 for any given market. Doesn't really matter. I mean, we have a lot less than those ones. Sure. Let's just say, but like, what do we do then? 20 average deal size? I look into the average DSLs. I look into like what are the numbers companies in there. What's the average deal size? 100K? Depends on the market. Let's just say 100K because it's easy for our maths. 100K. And then we're like, okay, if I need to hit, what's the maths we're trying to get to? I'm just trying to understand.

36:09So for me, the key item is like how many companies are in that market? How many like very complex enterprises in that market? and how do I keep enough liquidity in that market to close deals every single week so that the team stays motivated and sees the challenges of closing deals? Have you ever had a situation where you're like, shit, the ramp I need to get on my sellers to get to my quota is too high? Yes. I'm not equipped enough to hit that quota. 100%. Government vertical is one of those ones where like we said, you know what? And it was one of the big bets that I made this year. It was like, I don't care how much we make.

36:41Why do government, in the nicest way, hard sell cycles, tough to get in. Yeah. You're crushing in other areas. Why do government? Fundamentally, because one is very sticky. Number two is like, it's a benefit that we make to society. If we can deploy agents for people to have better interactions with like the actual like government and government services, it's an absolute no brainer. And I don't care if I don't make enough money to justify it or like I lose money. It doesn't really matter to me. And then the three is like, it's a hard industry to get in. So the moment you actually get in, then it's just like, you never leave that industry.

37:13When you start mapping those things out, you need to make the bets. And some of those bets will pan out really well. Some of the ones will not pan out that well. But it's literally portfolio construction. How quickly can I do some of these sales so that I can spend time also in the difficult ones and my investors don't call me saying, what the fuck are you doing? I'm going to fire you. And I think that's a fundamental idea of portfolio construction. And you do it at a country level. It's one of the new countries that you actually want to be launching and that is a completely different concept than what the majority of like CROs are actually thinking these days.

37:45If you tap it into like AI agents for like go to market and other pieces then you have like something that is quite unique for your business. So what did you do in India then? You verticalized too early, segmented too early, depressed the market for a quarter. We went back to zero. We went back to like horizontal. Let's do horizontal. Let's allow people to do like much deeper and then we will start segmenting again when the right timing comes. And what ended up happening is like, I would then, we would then give them like, I would then give them like a name account list and negotiate with them based on like fundamentally like how I was thinking about like the portfolio construction.

38:18And that worked really well. Like literally we lost a quarter. We ended up changing all of that from the ground up. And then you could see like people starting closing deals in the first month. And it was like insane because like it was day and night. We had changed the culture in the team, in the local market by getting it wrong let's go back to the basics let's redo it from scratch accept that we made a mistake and then move on does brand dramatically reduce enterprise sales cycle when you can like no offense 11 labs in india i'm sure like a year ago not actually a very big brand no versus in the uk and the us very big and much easier does brand reduce enterprise sales like yes one million percent and whoever tells you now it's like just lying that is a fact and i think like the ideal scenario is like no one gets fired like the idea like you remember like ibm right like no one gets fired for actually buying ibm it's like that is the ideal scenario for any brand it's like literally you become the safest asset in the block great i think like the two companies that today have been able to make it is or three companies if you want open ai and tropic full respect for them cursor the three of them i think for me are like cursed killed enterprise unbelievably well yeah they've done super well it's fantastic like those are the three like brands that are like blue cheap organizations right now in the procurement's like team's perspective and it teams perspective it's fantastic it's great no but everyone on twitter it's one of those really funny ones but everyone on twitter's like no one uses them anymore we always claw code you're such idiots and it's like sure we're going to hsbc in hong kong or wherever around the world like barclays bank in swansea that's i promise you they're using cursor actually in their local dev shop and it is great like it just means like brand will help you solidify your position but also you need to like the bigger But also the stickiness of these big enterprises.

39:59That's also the unwavering one. And it's not that easy to get into the big enterprises anyway, right? It's not that easy. You've done it with the portfolio companies. You know how difficult it is for them. But once you start getting into the motion... As a venture capitalist, I've done it, period. All of the companies we invest in, we basically found. We do all the work, really. That's exhausting. But you do it with LPs. So imagine your LPs. It's exactly the same concept. Your LP is like the big whales. Multi-year-cell cycle. Multi-year-cell cycle. Exactly. I mean, seriously, multi-year sales cycle.

40:27One of our biggest LPs was a six-year sales cycle. I'm not surprised. Absolutely. But how do you create enough FOMO? How do you create enough brand to be able to actually reduce that six years to a lot less? Yeah, brand does that. Exactly. What percentage of your new sellers work out? The majority of them. Do they? We're talking about our churn rate on the sales side is actually not that big. Really? It's because when I make an offer, I tell every single person, like 11 laps is going to be extremely difficult extremely difficult we are a hard company to work for because we have extremely high expectations you're going to work like a huge amount of hours i expect full commitment and people love it so you end up filtering out people that actually don't want to have that type of life and i think that's okay do you think it's possible to retain that at scale you get these soft management people who are like oh no we need to filter down the messaging do you think that's possible at scale i think it is possible but it is possible if you try to retain like a smaller team and you implement the latest technologies to actually like become make everyone more efficient in general of course like the bigger the company then i think you get softer but you look at what mark anderson was saying the other day and like companies are overstuffed by 25 and even more right of course there is a trade-off between like overstuffing and understaffing so like if you understaff and people have like even in sales or like revenue you have too much pipeline they end up not closing nothing how many sales people do you need to hire this year we we're about adding about like another 120 people more or less so it will keep the entire sales team what's your sales team now it's 130 people so we will keep it under 250.

41:58but you're doubling sales team doubling the sales team yeah and the sales it's going to grow much quicker than that do you worry about that yes that's a lot to bring on board a lot doubling the sales team yes what are the pitfalls that you need to avoid one is the dilution like if you're not upfront but the expectation i think you end up diluting because people come with different expectations they essentially like behave in a specific way that it's not the way that you wanted how fast can you correct it i went to a company the other day essentially there was the sales leadership board of all the reps and there were like seven reps and six reps had between five thousand and eight thousand points and just points just thinking that and then the bottom one had two thousand and the next best one had five thousand pretty freaking clear this person is way off do just cut it there and then were you like oh give them time it's only been a month yes and no for us like all of the stats are publicly open to everyone so everyone knows how much revenues we make everyone knows like each one of the reps do you have a leaderboard internally yes we do how does how do you do that to create that competition so people like we post automatically we have a bot that actually will post automatically into the sales channel every single week a summary of like what percentage of quote attainment year to date for that specific order and all of that stuff and on a power rap basis on a perfect basis so anyone can see it anytime and if you're at the bottom then hey you're going to be able to see that you're on the bottom at a practical level for me it's like it's beyond that it's like that's one component but if you have someone that is like building strategic accounts then i'm not too worried if someone is actually building like the right pipeline i'm also not too worried right but they need you need to see the action you need to see like how many meetings are doing.

43:39If I open a calendar and someone has a full calendar that is empty, I'm like, what did you do this week? Do you worry about demoralization or losing? I mean, if I'm looking at the report and it's like Harry Bottom, next week Harry Bottom, I'm like, oh fuck,

43:57Carles Reina:I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, it's so mean. It's like public, you know, I was the fat kid at school and it was horrible because you had running races and your losing in public was so public. because everyone could see how far behind you were. Sales attracts a different profile. Sales attracts the people that are much more outspoken, people that are much more extrovert, people that will actually want to do something different, right? So by definition, you don't go into sales if you're not willing to take the harsh feedback. If you're not willing to actually start - Do you not think most sales reps are softer today?

44:28I think a very large portion of them are because they don't have the environment to actually just push harder or because they've already lost the passion that they just want a normal job. And that's okay. Don't get me wrong. That's absolutely fantastically well. It is not what I'm hiding for. What's your tell for the obsessed wins? For me, like you can get it very quickly, right? Like people that have extremely high energy, that are sharp, that like are thinking quick. And also like there's other people that like will be slightly opposite, but also like they're gonna be very, very deep. And it's like, it might take them a little bit more time to actually like get there.

45:00And those are like less obvious. But once they do, it's just insanely good, right? Like if people are like sharp and they're energetic and passionate and they come across like someone that really wants to win and you can ask them like hey like pitch me 11 laps as if i was i don't know like a fish whatever it is like doesn't really matter right like then you get a sense of like how quickly they're thinking and how passion they have like how much passion how much actually that research the company who are they thinking all of that stuff like you end up having in a very short conversation like i don't need to spend more than 20 minutes to know if i want to hire someone or not and i tell you like the majority of times i end up putting my feedback in ashby we use ashby internally i end up putting my feedback in ashby during the conversation by the middle of the conversation i have my feedback and i'm one of those like crazy guys that like write a lot while i'm talking to someone i hate when it gets recorded then people end up behaving in a very specific way versus actually like being themselves so i write a lot when i'm while i'm interviewing people and then i have my summary and in parallel i'm writing and i'm doing my summary and that's it and it works really well for me and why do you hate the recorded element so for me all our calls in the lunch fund are recorded because it's important for us that we can share them and i can ramp up without being in the room my personal take is like interviews like people behave differently if they think that they've been recorded versus if they think that actually they have freedom to say whatever they think is is best in sales we are always like ask everyone to record it and we have like it's mandatory for everyone.

46:31You use Gong? We use Gong and then automatically fills out our like a sales force. And so we try to automate as much as possible. And by the way, like Lovable has the best CRM that I've ever seen. Those guys have really smashed it. Like shout out to them. Lovable CRM. Yes. Like so Lovable ended up building their own platform. Or like, can you imagine if they didn't? We should be building our own platform as well. But like we're not. Do you buy that? Do you buy the saspocalypse of like you will customize your own software entirely in the future for some areas yes where will you where will you not i think like for like core things yes so a crm i would love to customize it i would love to actually build it myself even like it doesn't really matter you can you don't have to spend that much time it's just like a pool of data you haven't in yourself we haven't we haven't done it uh we use salesforce but for some other applications like i mean why wouldn't you do it if it fits better in your entire ecosystem of applications if it's easy enough then maybe you should would i build an entire google drive or a gmail no i wouldn't like it wouldn't make any sense but for a good amount of applications for sure if i was like a procurement guy i would be building a procurement software for myself so you think the sas apocalypse is over exaggerated i think there is a very large portion that is over exaggerated but i think like there is a real fact that like people will end up building their own applications and i think that's that's key i think it's it's why not what would you like to do with 11 labs today that you're not able to do because of lack of budget oh we've never actually like put any constraints on the lack of budget like you if you want to do something budget is never going to be a problem and that's been since what is the problem if you want to do something and you're not allowed to why would that be it might well be because you haven't proven with a test or experimentation that that is the right thing to do right now so for me it's like you want a budget you want what do you want 100k you want 50k you want 200k to actually prove that things do it don't ask me for a million dollars and ask me for like dedicate an entire team to it don't ask me to actually dedicate six months of your time to for that specific thing i'm not going to do it but if you do it on the side and then you prove me that like you you can actually make it work and i start seeing some results we'll scale it and we'll give you all of the budget that you want you're on the cr and you said that it's so interesting about kind of i want to see the data before I scale it.

48:45You now do paid and you do paid, but you know, on an F1 car. Yes. Audi Revolut F1. How did you weigh up the decision to do that when it's a big investment and you had no data honestly to suggest it would work? It took us a long time to actually get comfortable with the idea. How much did it cost? We spent a good amount of money, like the budget, like we had a budget in mind that we wanted to spend and we went to different teams and we ended up negotiating. We're like, this is the budget that we have, this is how much we want to be spending for year one, for year two, all of that stuff. What are the options?

49:17And then all of the teams that we spoke to, some of them were like, no, like for this, no. Or like for this, you don't get anything. You don't even get the logo. Some of them are like, oh, we'll do all of this stuff. And then we end up like narrowing now into two teams. And then we end up negotiating with two teams in parallel. And then there was one like, which is all the A-Revolute F1. They're like, we were very impressed. But it took us a while to actually be comfortable with the entire concept. Would you rather premium branding on a worse team or secondary branding on a number one team? Premium branding on the worst team, 100%.

49:47You get more exposure and also like you have a lot more creative freedom. And also you're betting. So one of the main reasons why we ended up picking like Audi Revolute F1 is because like if you look at the history of like Audi, it's like every single like sports championship that's ended up winning within five years. And that's fantastic. And like they're building the car from scratch. They build it on like engine. they build like everything from scratch they're competing with like all of the big ones and i'm a big formal one fan and i actually feel that like this idea of like incumbents like very technologically driven with a really clear like mindset drive idea to win and so on it is who we are as a company 11 apps but also is who like who nick and the team are at revolute so it fits really well with your entire narrative as a company if you try to do the way what was the biggest paid marketing event that you did, event slash channel slash activity that you did, that was a mistake?

50:43And what did you learn from that? The majority of them end up producing good returns. But like when I look at like the ones from an enterprise perspective that like have a better ROI for us is like dinners. When we do a dinner with like execs in a given city, that has the best ROI that you could have. If I go to a trade show, the majority of them don't have good ROI. How much does a dinner cost? You could have a dinner with like four, like 15 people and cost you like$3 ,000,$4 ,000,$5 ,000. If you want to go bigger, then essentially you need to like shut the entire place and all of that stuff.

51:12So you will have to spend more. Depends on the city. It's not the same doing it in Mexico City or doing it in Barcelona or doing it in London. But the ROI is actually quite solid. But for dinners, the benefit of the dinners is like you end up, imagine you're inviting competitors. So you're inviting like competitors, like different customers you're trying to close. So like those guys are going to know that you are actually talking to these other guys. So there's a FOMO that ends up being created in place and it just pans out really well. And because they know, they know like it's usually the same ICP.

51:40So they know like who is doing procurement, who is doing like whatever, who's doing like the sales, who's being like the CTO, who is this chief AI officer, all of that stuff. They know each other. That always works really well. The worst like ROI for us has always been like conferences. It's just there's no ROI in there. What's the takeaway from that? We should be spending less on those things and should be building our own events more. You should be building your own events more. That's why we did like 11 Labs. You did this insane 11 Labs event, which kind of reminded me of like some kind of rock concert meets Steve Jobs kind of event.

52:10Do you need to see, ironically, a return on that? Yes, 100%. Why wouldn't you? Because it's difficult to know. No, like, so you end up like having like this concept of like influence revenue and then direct revenue or like close revenue, right? So there's a lot of like different variations, all of this that you can plan it. And the event that we run in London, the 11-labs summit in London was fantastic. Like we wanted to prove that like a European company can actually be running these big events with like, like so many people and then like put up a show that actually people get passionate and talk about it and also motivated and presented.

52:46We presented some ideas, we presented like we brought some like guests to talk in front of everyone else. What is your biggest tip for me? If I, I've been thinking about one company in particular of ours, I solve intelligence, amazing business in London, AI for patent lawyers. They should do an incredible event for patent lawyers, specifically be an amazing close-knit community. If you were to advise, say them, on you should know this if you're going to do an event for your customers, having done it so well, what would you say that advice would be? Bring the right ICPs, design the content really well and think carefully about the content that you want.

53:23What would be your advice on the content? Design it well, what does that mean? It has to be like not salesy. I think it needs to feel natural. Like you should do like a presentation about your company, like some insights, talk about like the things that are coming next, your vision. But if you make it to salesy, people will walk away and never come back. And I think that's the fundamental trade-off. Like for me, like these big events are like, we talk a little bit about 11 Labs. So Matti ends up doing like the big keynote. But then after that, for me, it's all about how do we put those partners, those companies that are building in our platform or are using our technology in front of as many people as possible so we learn about them and i i did my my i did a fireside chat with three amazing companies like bcg and and turgy and connecter for me it was more about like how do we enhance their appearance how do we like talk about like what are they building what they're using it's less about 11 laps it's about like them and i think that's like you need to plan the content in a way that like it feels less salesy you talk about it but also you bring partners to validate that what you're doing is actually right totally get that you said that partners how do you think about partnerships as a channel at 11 labs yes what are the big misnomers that people have around partnerships there is a concept that I really like that we've actually done fairly well I would say at 11 labs which is like the strategy partners and that is through the partners like we put in that bracket is like companies that have a CVC and I'm like this is gonna be controversial but like I actually love CVC is like corporate venture capitalist because they help you navigate big brands they are your champions internally and their incentive is to actually make it work really well for the business just for people to kind of understand that's like salesforce ventures that's exactly like uh deutsche telecom cap uh like t capital which is i think they all of them end up having one like entity tokomo ventures like all of them have like one of them but the good thing is they know their business and they were not sexy up until like a year and a half ago two years ago they were not sexy it was like returns were not there as we know right like cbc getting returns is like really difficult and they were just like trying to like fight to get a location in the best companies but like it's just not possible today we've proven with 11 lamp that like we dedicate the time to actually partner with like woven capital from toyota with the deutsche telecom guys with the telephonic guys with liberty global that actually joined our cup table all of those pieces like that is a fantastic distribution strategy and so you get them to invest a small amount and then you distribute through them exactly and you essentially we we negotiate contracts with them and essentially they end up like depending on the situation you have one side or another one do they have to bring a certain amount of pipe or promises to get a certain amount of allocation uh yes they do we are 11 lamps when nothing is free but i think i think i like it because like it incentivizes is like the way I organized this concept initially, and it was so funny when I pitched it to Matthew, I was like, really?

56:14People are gonna give us money as a contract. And I was like, investors. And I was like, yeah, let's try, right? And I think the reality was that you end up aligning incentives. If the incentive is to only invest, the incentive is only to invest, but your incentive is actually to close a deal. So how do you figure out something that works along the way so that you end up saying, you know what? You will invest for every million dollars that you wanna invest. You need to actually bring X amount of revenues in the next 12 months or 24 months, whatever timeframe you want. And there has to be some penalties and some consequences if that doesn't happen.

56:44That is the way that like... I'm sorry, how do you actually do that? If you don't bring it, like we strike you less, like is that possible? We buy you out. And I think it was perfectly fine. And then everyone is incentivized and the logic, and I strongly believe that is the case. And that's how I pitched it to everyone. It's like, we want the best. So if you invest in a million dollars in 11 labs and you bring a contract, you help us close a contract, then your valuation goes up. So you're making money from the VC side, but also your business is getting more efficient because it's implementing 11 Labs.

57:12It's a win-win for everyone. I totally get that. I think the other thing that you also get is like a public market messaging story, which is like we're closely partnered with 11 Labs, a pioneer in the industry, and four large telecoms providers wherever you are around the world or whatever enterprise you are. That helps a lot. 100%. But also like the beautiful side is like you end up building new products specifically for them because then you get the insights of the industry. So we went into like the telco industry we had no idea about the telco industry. We've actually learned everything about the telco industry, partnering with like KPN, Deutsche Telekom, Telefonica, Entity Docomo, all of those like really amazing brands that like have been in the industry for a very long time.

57:52We work very closely with the Wobben Capital guys at Toyota. We are learning a lot about the automotive industry because they're in the cap table. So everyone is motivated to it. Like in the same with like in financial services or even going into different markets. Like there's a number of advantages of like having corporate VCs in your cap table just because you incentivize and you increase your like opportunities of being successful. What are the biggest mistakes that you think people make with partner ecosystems? I think people think of them as like a silver bullet. Oh, we'll have a partner and then it's done.

58:22I think you need to have people who nurture those partners incredibly well to teach them, train them, onboard them. What would be some others from your perspective? It takes time. It takes fucking long time. Like, and that is the reality. is like if you're coming into like the distribution side with partners or you're building entire partner ecosystem thinking that you're going to be like making another 20 of revenues like in two quarters you're wrong like that doesn't happen that way you need people dedicated to it you need incentives for them because people lose interest and you need your incentives for your own team so initially start using like sqos sales qualified opportunities or sqls as sales qualified leads to be able to actually track how much volume has been generated and what is the actual traction being generated.

59:03And then once you start having a solid like motion in there, then you start tracking and moving towards like the revenues. So each one of the SQOs needs to be generating a certain amount of revenues. Other than letting them invest, how do you incentivize your partners to push you? You can always, and Salesforce has done it extremely well. For me, they had the reference on this. It's like they built a partner ecosystem that like where they get deals from like Salesforce, but they send deals to Salesforce. And in some cases, like in the markets where they cannot be billing the customer they actually do send the deal be like oh you're my partner you will be billing the customer and then i will bill you independently right that's a fantastic ecosystem to be building how do you think about the justification of rep time across account and what i mean by that specifically is like any company that's very large could spend a large amount of money and with plg everyone tends to start small and then the hope is they expand much bigger and bigger and bigger how do you think about what acv is large enough for reps to spend significant time on trying to get it.

1:00:01$1 ,000 a month. When you start spending$1 ,000 a month as a business, your brain completely switches because you don't want to put it anymore in your credit card. And at that point, you start believing like, shit, I'm spending a lot of money in there. And with that software, I do have high expectations. At that point, if you have emotion from a sales perspective that is fast enough, then it doesn't really matter. Are you ready for a weird one? One of my favorite sayings I've heard recently is like, fear is a mile wide and an inch deep and you need to take the step to realize it's not as scary as you think where have you thought the thing was very scary and difficult where it actually wasn't once you did it i had a very clear conviction that like at 11 labs launching india was going to be extremely difficult and we might fail and what i end up realizing is like i didn't know enough the market to realize like if you do it well you can make a ton of money and also generate a ton of us and generate a lot of ROI.

1:00:55Do you have to send OG team members to every market you open? No, but we do it centrally. We always try to build a market centrally from HQ, trying to close some deals. So that for me, it's free to actually deploy a single person on the ground. Sorry, how many is free to deploy a single person on the ground? Because I'm already making revenues, I'm profitable, I'm making revenues in that market. I've proven that it is a market that is getting... So you only go into new markets when you've already got a lot of customers and you can see the PLG? No, not on the PLG. I don't even look at the PLG numbers.

1:01:23I don't care about those ones. I look at like, what are the enterprises? What are the companies in the market? How is my portfolio construction in that market? And how can I close some of those companies to get to a certain level of revenues? At the moment that I get to that certain level of revenues, for me, I've nailed a product idea that needs to grow and needs to prove that like it can scale and it can have like product market fit. But at least I've proven that actually can start selling in there. then that's the moment that I actually, I can get the team on the ground. What market are you not in today, geography or sector, that you would most like to be in?

1:01:54We are everywhere these days. Literally everywhere? Everywhere. I have teams all around the world. Some of them have been announced, some of them have not been announced, but we have teams all around the world, yes. Where are you weakest? I think in general, like we've been weak in some of the languages and that is like entirely my fault on believing that like you could sign contracts, everyone is in the world, everyone in the world speaking english only and then you realize later on that's that's just not possible and don't get me wrong like i said i opened like japan by myself without speaking japanese japan's hard it's really hard my friend is daniel dines from uipath he told me before how hard japan is a major market for them now and it's phenomenally successful but it's hard to spin up it's really hard and i started doing it like two years ago going myself to japan like constantly and meeting companies and we started generating motion.

1:02:44It was great. And then I hired my first rep and then I hired the GM, Jim, and the rest of the team. That was a really hard market. And you could not sell in English everywhere else in the world, but you could also like not sign contracts that are always in English. Like, so if you end up having a team that is mostly, has mostly had experience in the US, their belief is that like, you can repeat that on anyone in the world. The reality is like, you look at Latin America, less than 5 % of the population speak English. If you want to open France and launch in France, good luck if you're only gonna be speaking English.

1:03:14Good luck if you don't offer like French law in your contracts. No one's gonna be signing it. So there's some of these learnings that we've had that are really, really tough. There's like, we wanted to actually sell in France and well, I was not speaking French. Then let's get someone that speaks French, right? So there is some of those things that we've learned by doing. That is my entire fault, but it's also like part of the experimentation, I think. If you think about South Korea is fucking hard. We are there, we have an office. Yes, yes. It's really, really, really tough. But also like the benefit of Korea, and that's why I was saying earlier, like you need to have a thesis on why you're launching a specific market.

1:03:47But the thesis on Korea was they produce a ton of content. They're very innovative when they want, and they're producing products and services, not for the local market, but for the international market. So in reality, yes, you need to be selling in Korean, but the majority of your usage will not be in Korean, will likely be for the international market. So how do you support and map those languages they care about, then you can target those companies, at least for us. Are you happy to be powering the decline of Hollywood? And I don't mean that horribly, but there was a brilliant article the other day on the permanent decline of Hollywood, and I think it was a Wall Street Journal article, but it essentially said about the democratization of content creation and what that's done to consumer attention, and hence the decline of Hollywood that's producing less and less content.

1:04:29You are, in large part, powering that. I can paint a very positive case for democratization, income equality, equalizing content. and also declining Hollywood. Is that a good thing? I don't think that's how I would put it. I think like Hollywood is declining in this model that they have today. We're like very big budget productions that require a ton of people, that require a lot of different things, right? And I think they're going through a crisis. But I actually think Hollywood will come out like even stronger than this. And I think at the end of the day, like it's like imagine that you get a startup and the startup tells you like, you know what, I need$100 million.

1:05:05or need$50 million pre-seed just for this idea. And then it's going to take me five years to get it out. I don't know who's going to buy it. What are you going to say? Like, why don't you raise a million dollars? That's going to be like, raise a million dollars, prove like some points and then start going there. And I think that's the problem with Hollywood right now. I don't think it's like AI voices. I don't think it's AI video. I think those are like additional solutions to make sure that you're democratizing it and you're reducing your cost of launching new ideas to the market. And that is going to be part of the solution.

1:05:33It's actually why I find defense so hard to invest in, which is like it takes five years and 200 to 250 million dollars before you can make your first dollar of revenue on a defense product. Quoting from Matt Stackman, who's the president of CBO of Andro. I think he knows his shit. That's just tough for me as like a seed venture investor to get on board with that cost curve to dollar gain. Do you know what I mean? And that's what needs to change fundamentally. Like how do we create content that takes less money, dollars to actually be created? it you start very slowly but also then you're on pub once you realize that actually there is product market fit in that content and i've spoken with a lot of studios over the past like three years i've spent a lot of time in in la in the industry and my pitch always to them is like hey let's try to create content that like will capture people's attention across like the channels that they operate today and if it works well let's scale it then you have the 50 million dollar budget and i think like what's where ai can benefit a lot but you have and because like you can iterate a You can create content that is personalized.

1:06:34You can create them that is like, is engaged by people. And then we were talking yesterday about this idea of cost per engagement. Why don't we use exactly the same framework? How much is the cost for every single person that gets engaged in your content? And that content can essentially expand to be extremely high quality as you're proving that fundamentally dynamic changes, right? You mentioned a couple of times about also investing as well. Fantastic investors, we've invested a lot together. should more operators be investors at the same time yes yes yes yes it should always but it should like my my thinking here is like it is because like founders want to be backed by other founders they want to be backed by the best operators they also want to be backed by the best investors if you are like an operator and you are willing to deploy time not money time to help a company like navigate and try to be successful at some point you will end up realizing the like why not to actually do it from with institutional money okay because flip side when you take institutional money it's a great responsibility of taking on someone else's money and you have already made a promise to your employer that you will devote your best efforts and all of your energy to making them successful and the company successful if you're suddenly looking at defense companies at seed you are not doing that job to the best of your ability i don't think so i think that you can do like both things in parallel and one contributes to the other one like i don't think there is any conflicts in there fundamentally i don't think so i think you can because you have reached i'm i'm your friend you've reached an echelon that you can but i don't think otherwise like honestly if i was one of your sellers and like i was going home and in the bath time reading about next generation drone companies and the cost curve to launch drone companies you'd Dude, your motherfucking turf is France and it's media.

1:08:23You could ramp that instead.

1:08:25Carles Reina:I would be saying that if I was you. 100%. And I would understand that. No, but I'm getting the best out of myself by doing that. But you know what? But the interesting thing is like, I think you put it really well in the other podcast, which is like, you are the hardest working person in the office. I am the same. And if you want to do both things at the same time, you need to prove every single day that you are the hardest working person in the office. And I think that's when it works. Fundamentally, like you will work really hard for the company, but also you will work really hard for your investors and your LPs.

1:08:54And when I was negotiating my LPA with my LPs, we got stuck in one clause. You know, like always you get stuck in clauses and things like that. What was the clause? I can't even remember. But like, and I remember like that clause, which was like, for me, was absolutely silly. And I was like pushing back. And like for them, it was like core to them. I was like, I call my main LP, which is absolutely fantastic. Like Sindana Capital, they're really amazing guys. But like, I remember calling them and be like, guys, like we need to get over this. Like if we are fucked, if I don't return the money and I don't do all of these things, we're all fucked.

1:09:29It doesn't really matter how we see it, right? It just doesn't really matter. So let's move on. Let's close this thing. Let's make sure that I start deploying the capital and then we will celebrate. And if it doesn't work out, I'm fucked. I'm accountable for all of this. I lost all of this money. We'll figure it out. But I don't think I will lose your money. I think I will do like a 10X and I'm happy with it. And we ended up like moving on. What fund would you be happy with? What do you say to a master? I would be very happy with a 10X. I'd be very happy with a 6X. I'd be very happy with a... I think like for me, it's like the way I thought when I was raising a fund is like I would be very happy the moment that I actually have seven unicorns in my fund.

1:10:07Seven. It has to be seven. I'm not going to be happy. Why seven? I don't know. It's a number that I had. Just like David Beckham? Don't watch football. Soccer, sorry. okay well he was number seven which is why no but i think that's the key like people that like want to achieve something that is different have a very clear idea of like what is the actual like vision that they have like i'll care if you'll see don't they i don't care you don't care i don't care because you do the a of 11 labs with 350k you'll make a ton of money sure i did the pre-seed

1:10:40Carles Reina:no i i get that no need to brag but it's okay i got you i did the pre-precede no but i think like at some point like unit economics like also matters but also like i think it's important to stay within your lane as well right like i get a lot of like a's and amazing companies i just know my area of expertise as a fund investor and that's not what i'm gonna have a lot of fun as a as an investor is it no not not for me i love like the scrappiness i love the crazy ideas i love the companies like the founders are like no one to no one wants to back them I like those ones I love things that are like not obvious we just did a deal together and it wasn't I mean for me it was very obvious for your team it was like Kira and and and for you it was like pretty obvious but I also like talked to a lot of other VCs and they were like uh no and I'm like how is this a no for you I don't understand it those are the things that I really like my favorite though is when we did it But then they had like 10 people call and be like, by the way, super interested to speak about the round.

1:11:39Did you know? That happens a lot. No shit. That happens a lot. Oh, wait. So you were not interested in a week ago. And now that you know that 20BC and blah, blah, blah, blah are doing it, then you're interested? No, thank you. I totally agree with you. Unit econ, does it matter early? You said there it does. A lot of the time with AI companies, it's slightly inverted. And like, actually, if your unit econ is good, it almost means that no one's using your product. I don't think it matters in the early days. I think it's more of like, how do you get speed? But if you're building an entire brand new market from scratch, I think you have like a power of deciding the pricing and that pricing will help you a lot in terms of unit economics.

1:12:14So the key item is like, are you building something from scratch? And if so, then you have like pricing power. If you're not, and you're only looking at like building something that other people already have, then you're going to get screwed. And then you will have to figure out how to actually go deeper to be able to charge more. What's your single biggest advice for me? Pretend I'm an operator at a company. I'm a head of sales. I'm ahead of product, ahead of growth, any of the kind of coveted people that you're born on a cap table. And I'm like, I'm thinking about any more investing. What would your advice to me be having done all that you've done?

1:12:42Be helpful. Like the money that you're investing is not worth it. Like, I mean, it's just not worth anything for any company. Like if you put like a 5K check or you put a 10K check or you put like a 50K, it's not going to make or break the company. And you need to be very clear that like in your mind that that's not the case. One of the most common ways companies need your help. What's the number one way? Go to market. Hiring people. getting sales hiring sales hiring for me like i go into customer calls with my my portfolio companies and absolutely love it i do interest for them i ask them like to send me like their decks at their pitch like record themselves pitching and i give them feedback and i love it because then i can figure essentially how potentially we can change it how like are we in the right market are we not are we getting the right traction or not i absolutely love it and i think that's you can be helpful with your portfolio companies in your own way just forget about the money do small checks it doesn't really matter i always say do the same size check every time do not do the whole oh i think this one's great i'll put 50 this one i'm not sure i'll do 10.

1:13:38no no just do 25 every time whatever it is i think there's like different variations and methods i've not done it in my life i've essentially as my wealth kept increasing then fundamentally started doing bigger checks and that's okay but and you know like sometimes like of course we fool ourselves saying this is the company. And you know how like the majority of times that we do it, like you end up getting disappointed. We get disappointed, but also like we would do it again. What's your biggest investing mistake? Like I've done a few investments where like I was committed on the market, I was convinced on the founders, but I did not check how hungry they were to actually like do go to market.

1:14:16I ended up finding out that like, yes, they were very hungry to build product, to execute, but they were not hungry and actually like iterate on the go to market. How do you test hunger on go to market specifically? I think it's very difficult. I think it's like, for me, it's like if in the first conversation, I want to understand like how are they thinking about go to market already? And if they tell me like, sorry, I'm just like, I'm only thinking about like building research and doing all of these things. Like, fantastic. I love your product. This is great. It's fantastic. Your mindset, your ideas, it's just not for me.

1:14:43Because then you're going to be fighting with them for like go to market. And I have a bunch of my portfolio companies that actually are like that. And it's great. Don't get me wrong. They're doing super well. and I love them and I'm as helpful as I can but at some point the party ends and if the music ends and you're stuck without having a product where you're monetizing it and you stuck with the idea that like we can always make more money later on then you're gonna get fucked you can invest all of your money into one company that you've backed which company can't be 11 labs 11 labs obviously it can't be okay it cannot be 11 you can't be the rebel yeah I love there's a company in spain called teker robotics t-h-e-k-e-r they're doing like robotics for like the manufacturing industry and like uh like warehouses and all of that stuff absolutely the most geniuses guys that i've seen in robotics space ever like amazing i'll just dump all of my money how quickly do you think you know a company is good was it obvious very quickly that 11 yes yes yes 11 i mean like i stopped to matt for 30 minutes and i committed because like for me like you know one of my best from fun one i think was linear well i yes i know sequoia and very early and it all looked great but it wasn't what it is today for a couple of years actually it was a it was a bit of a slow burner do you believe in slow burners yes yes that's absolutely fine like not everyone learns at the same pace not everyone like not everyone's market like grows at the same pace and i think that's okay like life is not perfect why would do we want to have like perfect companies in our portfolio.

1:16:13No, let's do the tough things always. I think like the reality is like for my LPs, I always tell them like, guys, we're going to get it right and we're going to get it wrong. Like, and that's okay. Like if I invest in a founder that like it doesn't work out and the founder wants to do another company and I believe the first time, why not to do the second time? Literally like you are like trying to fall in the same place multiple times. Yes, and I will because I believe in people and I believe in like that they can do something that they can do, like learn from those mistakes and execute and move quicker and quicker and quicker i think that's okay i'd love to do a quick fire so i say a short statement you give me your immediate thoughts so that sound okay okay the reason i look kind of dazed and confused there is i was trying to remember this brilliant quote and it's like what would you need to achieve to be happy in 2026 oh i mean for me like if i get three unicorns and 11 laps crosses a billion dollars in revenues i would be very happy wow three unicorns for the funds i'll be very happy what's the single hardest thing for you today time it's like it's that's not an answer it is like i love you do it's not it is like it is it's i don't have the time and i love it this is like a job interview i work too hard no no no no no it is not and the problem is like if you don't have enough time for certain things then you're sacrificing like your partner your friends all of that stuff and that's the hardest thing for me like it's i choose to actually work like the amount of hours at work and work for 11 labs and work for my funds for my lps but there's a choice and then you're choosing to do things putting aside all the things that are so equally important what's your escape plants like um like gardening i absolutely love it i talk to my plants i have so many plants at home i talk to them all the time i water them i like i take like small scissors and i chop them like it's so nice i really like it and that's when i'm really stressed and i don't understand like how to fix a thing then i start essentially like spending an hour two hours like looking after my plans i can like spend time like looking at them and not doing anything just talking to them that gives me back energy it's very very strange but no no there's no such thing as strange i think we all need to be a bit more strange what is the thing that makes mattie so good what makes him so good is like i think his ability of listening to people and then making a decision regardless of whether he gets it right or wrong.

1:18:30And he will acknowledge if he got something wrong and then change it immediately. And I think that's what I really value because you get CEOs that will tell you, most of the times I need to get it right and then make some mistakes in there. And for me, it's actually the opposite. You should be always getting it right or 99 % right in 5 % of the things that are really mega important. In the 95 % remaining things, you should be getting it mostly wrong. I think that's what Matt is trying to do and he's very successful at that like allowing people to like experiment and get it wrong and then push back but also run with their ideas and if there's a thing that he believes like it is like fundamentally like it needs to happen in a specific way he will say it and he will do it and everyone gets to needs to be aligned and he has that ability of like combining both things in different moments in time and it works really well we've seen it at 11 labs.

1:19:19Final one for you what are you most excited about when you look forward to the next 24 months? I am actually looking forward to the next wave of foundational model companies. I believe that there is a brand new wall of opportunities that we are unlocking or that is going to be unlocked with a new wave. Wait, wait, wait.

1:19:35Carles Reina:You're going to be a next generation of OpenAI? Next generation of OpenAI. But I actually think OpenAI and Anthropic and Google and 11 Labs will end up buying all of the new foundational model companies that will be popping up and creating research and paying just a few billion here, a few billion there, and just swapping them in. But I think it's actually like... rather buy open ai at 8 30 or anthropic at 500. anthropic and i put it online like multiple times i think like i love open ai don't get me wrong they're amazing pushing the boundaries but i really like how do you think they are they still i think they're still like pushing it and i think that they're like they're trying to do things like good things for the world but they were spread too thin and i think it's the the problem like even us at 11 labs we're facing and anthropic is facing everyone in his face is like then when you start being very successful you want to do too many things and then you end up like getting too stretched and then not doing anything correctly right it's like how do you do less and then doing it really well but do you not think that it's been stretched too thin for too long and the anthropic acceleration has been too great yes they need to start from scratch and for me the key item is that it's like how do they start building the experimentation thinking like yes we're still number one we make all of this money but at the same time like let's go back to the basics what do you use antropic i use cloth and i'm very happy like cloth is my best friend like it's it's actually true i use it all personal and everything personal like fun 11 labs everything biggest advice to someone who hasn't got it set up who needs to oh probably i'm the worst one of all of them but like i mean i like the cloth skills for instance and all of that like it's it's really amazing but i see some of my like team members and they're like, they just nailed it.

1:21:13I'm just like an amateur. They're professionals at all of this. And I would love to actually be like, you know what, pack all of this. I'm going away for an entire month and I'm going to be a pro at all of this stuff. I would love to do it. And hopefully one day happens. Dude, I've so enjoyed this. Thank you so much for putting up with me. You've been fantastic. And I actually preferred the second time, if I can say that. Really? Yeah. Nice.

1:21:35Carles Reina:Good. But before we leave you today, a quick shout out to a company I've been genuinely blown away by and have been tracking closely, ROX. I've been watching this team closely and the speed they're operating at and the level of applied AI talent they've assembled, it's honestly remarkable. ROX is pioneering revenue agents for the global 2000, plugged into your data warehouse and CRM, and delivering board-level ROI in just 90 days. These sales and revenue agents handle the end-to-end sales process for large enterprises, from research prep to deal risk, outreach, and opportunity management. So sellers spend more time with customers and less time in tools.

1:22:14Carles Reina:This isn't another productivity app. Christ, we've all had enough of those. ROX gives reps a single interface on top of their GTM stack, powered by a knowledge graph across your internal and external data. So if you want to boost AE productivity, increase revenue per rep, and consolidate your stack, try ROX at rox.com slash sign up. While Rocks keeps retention on track, Granola makes sure the key moments stick. You're in back-to-back meetings all day. You're trying to stay present, but you're also worried you'll forget the decision, the action item, the important next step. That's where Granola comes in.

1:22:48Carles Reina:Granola is an AI-powered notepad for meetings. You jot down rough notes like you always do, and in the background, Granola transcribes and turns them into really clear, useful notes when the meeting ends. No bots joining your call, no distractions, is just a clean notepad that helps you focus. During or after the call, you can chat with your notes, ask Granola to pull out action items, help you negotiate, write a follow-up email even, or coach you using recipes, which are pre-made prompts. It's actually the same technology we use to create our podcast notes. Once you try it on a first meeting, it's really hard to go back.

1:23:24Carles Reina:Head to granola.ai forward slash 20VC. That's granola.ai forward slash 20VC and get three months free with the code 20VC. That's 20VC. After Granola captures the conversation, Framer runs your website. A website should help your business grow, not slow it down. If updates to your.com feel harder than they should, Framer is the shortcut you've been looking for. Framer is an enterprise-grade, no-code website builder that works like your team's favorite design tool, and it's used by companies like Perplexity, Miro, Mixpanel to move faster. Designers and marketers can fully own the site with real-time collaboration, a robust CMS built for SEO, and advanced analytics that include integrated A-B testing, so you're not just shipping pages, but you're maximizing what works.

1:24:13Carles Reina:And when you're ready to ship, changes go live in seconds with one click, publish, without relying on engineering. Plus, Framer is built for scale, with premium hosting, enterprise-grade security, and 99.99 % uptime SLAs, whether you want to launch a new site, test a few landing pages, or migrate your full.com. Framer has programs for startups, scale-ups, and large enterprises to make going from idea to live site fast. Learn how you can get more out of your.com from a Framer specialist, or get started building for free today at framer.com slash 20VC for 30 % off, 30 % off a Framer Pro Annual Plan.

1:24:53Carles Reina:That's framer.com slash 20VC for 30 % off. Framer.com slash 20VC. Rules and restrictions may apply.