20VC: Scott Galloway on Are Billionaires Happy & The Impact of Money on Psychology and Self-Worth | Becoming a Better Father & Husband | Why We Should Drink More and Not Work From Home | The Tinder Effect & How it Makes Young Men Radical

23:20Our manufacturing base was unbelievable. In the autonomous cl - and basically you created a ton of very attractive men that women were attracted to and we had the kind of middle class to car home. And the homes are so productive and so successful they thought, let's bring women and non -whites into this prosperity and they created a huge tax base, educated populace. And what we have now is I think we're reverting to the way the majority of history is and that is a small number of men who can demonstrate wealth or signal wealth online, whether it's through a Rolex or through slip streaming into the information age economy can have a date every night.

23:54If there's 50 men on Tinder and 50 women on Tinder, 46 of the women will show all of their attention exclusively to just four men leaving 46 men to fight over four women. And the scary stat I saw, I think you referenced, is it in order to get one coffee a man of average attractiveness on a dating app has to swipe right or try and connect with 200 women to get one coffee. And then if he's fortunate enough to get five coffees, which took a thousand swipes, four of those five coffees will reconsider and ghost him. Neither not show up or cancel. And what this creates is a lot of resentment among men of average attractiveness and then they become much more prone to misogynistic content, much more prone to nationalistic content.

24:30And this is a story as old of time. If you talk about young men who've been radicalized throughout history, generally they have a lack of romantic and economic opportunities. What I see is a group of men who women find undatable, not economically or emotionally viable. And when a woman doesn't have a romantic relationship, she tends to channel that additional energy into much more productive things, her friend network and her professional life. When a young man doesn't have the guardrails of a romantic relationship, he often times channels that energies in the video games, porn and conspiracy theory.

25:00And back to your point about women feeling like they screwed up. What the data shows is distinctive the kind of the trope of the woman who's lonely and ends up with cats who's a partner to law firm and is miserable. The majority of the data shows it actually men benefit more from relationships than women. Widows are happier after their husband dies and widowers are less happy. that men actually get more from a relationship than women. The absence of relationships, the absence of young people, hooking up and mating and committing to each other actually has more downside impact on men. If a man hasn't cohabitated or been married by the time he's 30, there's a one and three chance he ends up a substance abuser.

25:41And men really need guardrails. What I think young men, I think there's a lot of data that shows that while they're physically stronger, they're actually emotionally and mentally weaker than women. And without the guardrails of a romantic relationship or strong male involvement or a strong culture and a good job They're much more prone to substance abuse. There must more prone to risk aggressive activities including gambling. They're much more prone to lower their risk aggression and find their friends through Reddit or discord jobs or trying to make money through crypto or Stock trading and you're a good looking guy.

26:12You care about the way you look you care about your career you signal a lot of very positive things that take a lot of work and energy. And I worry a lot of men are not making those efforts because they think why make those efforts, why go through that when I just have porn. So I worry a lot about young men and the lack of opportunities for creating a middle class through what I would hope is economically an emotionally viable man. I think remote work is a disaster for young people. I think they need to meet each other, learn how to read the room. I think a close second is the anti -alcohol movement.

26:42I think the risk to a 25 -year -old liver of alcohol are dwarfed by social isolation. And when I was your age, I was drinking a lot, and it helped me find friends, and it helped me find potential romantic partners. As I got older, and I got more serious about my career, I wound down my substances, because like you, I said, our shit just got real. For me, it was my mom got sick. I didn't have enough money. It was very humiliating for me, so I thought, I need to really, really serious about my career. And then, about a lot of things in my control, including dramatically reducing my consumption of alcohol hall and THC.

27:13Six percent of kids are teenagers are clinically addicted to alcohol or drugs 24 % are addicted to social media. So I jokingly say put down your phone, go out drink more and make a series of bad decisions and might pay off. If you ask people to reverse engineer their closest friendships and their learnings around dating and romantic opportunities, did alcohol play a role in that? Almost everyone says yes and then you say was it a positive or a negative. They thoughtful and they slowed down. Most of them say it was a positive. I worry that this anti -alcohol movement and people at home with Netflix, people at home, because it's gotten so expensive to go out, that people aren't bumping off one another.

27:55And if someone had said to me, here on a dating app is a list of the attributes and a picture of who ultimately ended up mating with. I would have never chosen them, but it was being in the presence of them, getting to know them at work, hanging out with them in a friend group or a sports league, having an opportunity for me to demonstrate excellence. If you talk to people who've been very longer than 30 years, 80 % of them say one was much more interested in the other at the beginning and it was always the man was more interested in the woman. Women have a much finer filter for mating because there's so much more downside to sex and there is a man.

28:26But where do young men have an opportunity to demonstrate excellence? So they're all on the dating apps and all of a sudden it's about height and perceived resources. You've seen the trend on TikTok where they say, all right, describe your minimum height and your minimum income. Six feet, six figures. That's 2 .6 % of the population of people who aren't married, aren't obese or under the age of 50. Whereas, when you talk to married couples, they're like, yeah, I wasn't interested, but he was so good at what he did at work that I fell in love with him. I was at Temple with him and I saw how kind he was to his parents and I fell in love with him.

28:58We were in guitar class together and I liked his hands. Where does a young man demonstrate excellence these days? social media. And then it comes down to hide and money. Well, trying to be someone that you're not exactly. And my feed is school peos or some bullshit making us club by the Rolexes on and it's my filter that gives me a six pack. And here I am on my jet. By the way, anyone who takes a picture of a jet does not own that jet. And we're creating unreasonable expectations for young people around what it means to be successful. And also, you always know who you are. I know it sounds like a weird one.

29:30I've done what I've been doing since I was 17. So I've never really had adulthood without running my business. And so I don't really know who I am. It's why I never go on holiday because you're forced to reflect on life. And I don't really want to reflect on life without work because I don't know who I am. Did you know who you were? Did you learn who you were from tough times, good times? It's interesting question. I think you're being hard on yourself. I think you've decided that your first time. It sounds like you're a very blessed and that you knew what you wanted to do at a young age. You know, when I was very young, I thought I was going to be an athlete.

30:00At 17, I thought I was going to be a pediatrician. At 22, I thought it was going to be an investment banker. And then by 24, I was living with my mother and had no idea what I was going to do. So you're sort of blessed that you had that kind of focus and drive at such an early age. That's a gift. Similar to you, once I got going, I got some professional traction. My entire self -worth and identification was through my professional success or lack thereof. That's how I identify who I am. That's where I get my confidence. Can I be blunt? What was, I can normally security fee. Yeah, I had a number two.

30:28And I just, I wrote a book on financial security for me. It was like I wanted to assume that 4 % of my number would give me passive income that would be way more than I needed to live well. My number was 150 million because I thought it would be hard for me to spend half a million dollars a month, although I figured out how. And 4 % of 150 million is 6 million half a million dollars a month. I got there about 10 years ago and I'm very open about money because I think when rich people don't talk about money, it's an accidental or purposeful means of keeping lower and middle -income people down.

30:58If you want to be great at tennis, you should talk a lot about tennis. Young people need to speak to each other about money, their fears, their anxieties. It's helpful. I was very stressed out about money when I was your age. I didn't have a lot of it. So I think it's really productive, educational, and cathartic to talk about money. But when I got to my number, I was still very ambitious. I got all of myself worth through money. My friends, my mating opportunities, and all the incredible experiences and my power came through money. So I just naturally assumed that the more money I have, the more of those things I'm going to have.

31:25And then I had a couple fairly close friends pass away unexpectedly. That happens to your young. When you hit 50, you'll lose a couple of friends randomly, like strange genetic time bomb just go off and you'll have a dot friend I have six months in leukemia or some rare nerve disease. And it does inspire some pause or it didn't make. And I thought to myself, I was in the midst of raising a private equity fund because I thought, you know what, just deep down? I want to be a billionaire. Scott Gauley billionaire had a really nice ring to it. And I thought, I need to get to a billion. I raised some money or I got some money commitment and then I had some losses in my personal life and I thought why on earth do I need to be a billionaire?

32:02I can do anything I want and so a huge unlock for me was Financially deciding okay, and I do this every year. I look at my number I know pretty much how much I'm not worth gold. I managed my money to give me a number every year and anything above my number I either spend it or I give it away. I love to spend money. I'm really good at it I'm an indulgent person, I do crazy fun things. And then anything that's left, I give away. Because I think hoarding wealth is a virus. And I think it can train you to do the wrong things and focus on the wrong things. And then I thought, okay, I need a new purpose.

32:34My purpose used to be to establish economic security so I could take care of my mom, have fun, be interesting, be important, find a mate, take care of my kids. And I thought, I need a new purpose in my life. And I really spent a lot of time thinking, what is my purpose? and try to establish a new purpose other than just being really rich in a baller, which had been my purpose up until the age of like, you know, called 45, 48. But what you're going through, it sounds to me like you've been very successful, you professionally identify yourself. And when you get to your number, what I think is really helpful is to say, okay, money is the income I pen, it can write new chapters, it can make certain chapters burn brighter, but it's not my story.

33:11And so to really think about, what is my story, what is my purpose? No one's going to remember you in three generations, but in one, what would you like them to say about you? What would you like the other than he was really successful, which it sounds like you are? What are the second and third things you would like them to say about you? I think it's a very healthy process to go through. What would you like the next generation to say about you if I were to tell not only? I think about what are the three things you want on your tombstone? I want to be known a generous patriot and dad. My purpose now is I want to raise patriotic loving men.

33:42I have two kids, two boys. Do you have kids? No I didn't. So once you have kids, everything kind of changes. That for me has given me purpose. It's given me a sense of, okay, that's why I'm here. I'm here to produce two men who are generous, loving, kind, patriotic, young men. That has given me a sense of purpose. It's a nice grounding for me and I'm good at it. I don't think I'm great at it, but I know I'm good at it. And it gives me a sense of comfort and being such that I'm just not constantly thinking about about how I get more AIM and go buy a company or something like that. What would you say to me who's scared about having kids whilst maintaining being like top performance and work?

34:19Like kids, my brother has a child. He's knackering. They cry at night. You have to give them time, emotion, love. I can just be ruthless these selfish right now. To what extent do kids impact performance? Hold you? 29. I see your kid. So at the age of 29 with a little bit of money living in a city or a good looking guy, you're going to have a series of empty, meaningless experiences. but as far as empty meaningless experiences go, they're going to be pretty good. So I'm not sure you need to be in a hurry to get married. What I would say to you, though, is that for most men, kids are motivating professionally, because you realize it's no longer just about you.

34:52And you need to think longer term. You need to be thoughtful. You need to maybe pull in your horns a little bit. If you hit a big, diversify a little bit, start finding reward and different things, reward in raising kids with a competent partner is really rewarding. Well, I was not in love with my kid when it came rotating out of my girlfriend. I thought the whole thing was gross and weird and all I felt was fear that I wasn't making enough money. So it wasn't like angel singing and bright lights everywhere. But you fall in love with your kids and then it gives you a sense of purpose. It was very motivating for me.

35:21I was making just enough money to go to same parts and date and give the perception of wealth and success. And I wasn't motivated to do more than that because I didn't have kids. Once I had kids, I'm like, okay, it's no longer about me. I got to make a lot more money. I found it very motivating. And also there's something comforting. I don't know if you're going through this, but when I was single and making good money, basically Thursday and Friday was about lining up fabulous experiences with fabulous people on Saturday and Sunday. And it was like a monster or a dragon that could never be sated.

35:48I wanted more money, more experiences, more incredible events, hotter women, more sex, more events, hotter women, more interesting events, more money was never enough. I was like, I want more, I want fucking more. And having kids for me, and I didn't want kids, I was forced to have kids because my partner basically said I'm out of here unless you're having kids. But now I do have moments for my boys mom into the room and we're watching some show or football and they throw their legs over mine naturally just sort of instinctively and the dogs roll in and that's like the only time in my life. I thought, okay, this is it.

36:22This is enough. I can't imagine nicer kids. I can't, I just can't imagine better dogs. Like, this is it. It's the first time in my life I've ever felt, say it it and I can't communicate it to you. I can't convince you of it. The only way you can do it is to have kids, but what I would tell you, and I think those research here, is that if you have economic security and you can find a competent partner, having kids is just an incredibly, it's the most rewarding thing I've ever done by a long shot, and I didn't want kids. And also professionally, I found a very motivating. So the notion that somehow it's gonna slow you down.

36:54No, I think my guess is that's bullshit to excuse the fact that you're still in a arrested adolescent stage having a lot of fun, and have at it, have at it. But what's challenging there is how do you know when you found the right person? And what I mean by that is like no one is ever going to tick all of the boxes. How do you know when to settle with compromise versus look for perfection? Oh, I don't know. I think everyone's different, but for me it was willing to throw up the deck of cards that was my life and let them land anywhere because I did want to lose this person. I had no dessert out of kids.

37:25And this person made it clear to me that, okay, if you don't want kids, I got it, but I need to move on because I want up kids. And so I was willing to reconfigure my life because the idea of not having that person in my life was really upsetting to me. You know, that either happens or it doesn't. The hard part is as you get older, you become more sad in your ways. I would imagine what happens to the majority of us will happen to you. And that is you'll meet someone and you'll decide that the sacrifices are worth maintaining that person in your life. I think most men were successful, like the optionality of not being committed or married or having kids.

37:59And then I think what happens a lot is your partner is not up for that. And basically says, okay, it's decision time and you make that decision. And then hopefully you look back and think that was a good idea. That was the right decision. How many of your extremely successful billionaire friends have great family lives? I asked my mother on a walk the other day. She said to me, what gets worse with money? I said, the only thing I can think of is family. I don't know. Actually, the majority are really wealthy people I know. I think there's a bit of a cartoon that wealthy people are crawled over this sort of Bernie Sanders, I don't know how much you know about Meghan Paul.

38:34Yeah, sure. This Bernie Sanders Elizabeth Warren that all billionaires crawled over people to get there. I have generally found the wealthiest people I know, I probably know maybe I don't know, a dozen billionaires. Generally what I found is that they're really good people. And the key to being a billionaire is establishing allies along the way. And that is people put them in a room of opportunity even when they're not in that room because because they're really high character good people. So I think the cartoon of Monty Burns starting the nuclear power plant and being a weirdo in me and I don't find that's true.

39:01I find that the majority of really wealthy people I know are generally speaking, especially once we're self -made, generally speaking are high character people. Now they're aggressive and can be brash or whatever, but generally I generally find their high character people and pretty good family men married more than once, but generally speaking, I don't know if it's proximity bias. I got lucky with some of the people I know. but I have found that the unhappy billionaire who has a shitty relationship with his kids and has been married five times, that I find that's mostly a cartoon, that there's so much anxiety injected into relationships when you don't have enough money, that those are the people that have really dysfunctional families.

39:39My experience has been that actually wealthy people are both a high character generally speaking and generally speaking have pretty good partnerships and pretty healthy families. Have you ever felt as a fall of a light you didn't meet the great? That was a period where you didn't meet the grade you were performing like you should have been, you let them down as a father. Oh, I feel that almost every day. The two people that make me more insecure than anyone in my life or my boys. Like, every day I wondered to my boys like me. And then when you recognize in a moment of clarity as a dad is like, they're not necessarily supposed to like you.

40:10You're not supposed to be their friend. You're supposed to be their dad. And I handle situations incorrectly. I over -parent, I under -parent. I know I'm a good dad, but I aspire to be a great dad. And I still don't think I'm there yet. It is something I have not figured out. I'm hugely insecure around my fathering. It's something I struggle with. I have a kid who's applying to college. He's taken the ACT. I don't know how to thread the needle between telling him it's go time. Success is about knowing when to turn on the jets. This is that time. And at the same time, not putting too much pressure on a 17 -year -old who is already like studying all these subjects, trying to make the football team get his IB scores up.

40:50The position I find most rewarding, but also the people I most insecure around in a weird way are my son. So I think I just decided that's part of it. Maybe dads, there maybe there are some dads who just think, oh yeah, I'm a great dad, no dad about it. But yeah, I struggle with what it means to be a good dad and how to manage it. Did you have a good relationship with your father? This is very interesting, cheap therapy. No, I mean, my dad was fairly absent. And my dad was handsome, strong jawline and a Scottish accent, which meant in 70s, Southern California could not only think with his dick, he could listen to it.

41:23He's been married in divorce four times. And as far as we know, and he's on his fifth wife, which is a woman I basically paid to be as kind of home health aide. He basically started his third marriage while I was still married to my mom left, moved to Ohio. It was a different age. It was the 70s. Kids were sort of like furniture. They we didn't revolve our lives around kids back then. So I saw him holidays and summers, so he wasn't very involved in my life. But where I have forgiven my dad, and I'll put the question back to you about your relationship with your father, what was a big unlock for me was I think we have an evolutionary obligation to just be a better dad than our dad was to us.

42:00And my dad was that. My dad was physically abused by his alcoholic father, and when I recognized how his father treated him, he was actually very good to me. And that means he checked a box. I used to resent my father and have trouble, you know, sometimes being nice to him. When my biggest unlocks is recognizing, like, try and imagine what kind of son you want to be. Imagine what kind of friend you want to be. Imagine what kind of boss you want to be. Imagine what kind of partner, romantic partner you want to be, boyfriend, and live up to that standard as opposed to doing what I did all the time.

42:30And I managed my relationships like transactions. Where if I wasn't getting as much back for my emotional dollar, I no longer continue to patronize that establishment. And there's a problem with that because you'll always inflate your contribution of the relationship and minimize theirs. So I found it just much easier to say, what kind of Sunday I want to be? I want to be a generous loving son that's really good to my dad. In the moment, I just said, that's my benchmark, not trying to measure all my better son than he was a dad to me. Could he have been better and I'm angry? I just found that such an incredible unlock.

43:01So you're willing to still be giving even if it's not maybe deserved or odd? Yeah, because I feel like that's the whole fucking point. That's the shooting match. You want to die like Ideally like I was a better son than my dad was to me. I was a wonderful husband I was so wonderful to my kids. I got a lot of joy back from them But on a balanced scorecard. I'm still in the net positive. I think that's the whole point So you don't agree with cut out people from your life who are negative energies who are negative forces? Oh, sure. You don't be, I mean, I shed friends all the time. I shed relationships.

43:34I used to be focused on business, your finance. It gets pretty brutal sometimes. And I've been, in my opinion, sort of not abused but treated poorly by business partners, venture capitalists. And I get, I struggle with anger and I thought, oh, I'm going to serve this guy called lunch some day. And it lives around free in my head. And one of my mentors, Hamid Mogadom, said to me, he said the best, he's like, you really want to get it this guy? I was a VC, the most powerful VC's in the world, washed me out of my stake in my company, kicked me off the board. He's like, you really want to get back at him?

44:04I'm like, yeah, what are we going to do? And he's like, lead a fucking amazing life. That is the best revenge. And so if I have a bad business partnership, it's something I'm proud of. I have never sued or been sued by anybody. If I have a bad relationship with someone, or I feel like I've been wrong, I just don't work with them again. There are some friends in my life that slowly but surely, I just do a slow fade from. I've never been tolerated, abusive relationship romantically. But generally with your important relationships, I think a healthy way to approach it is just say, I'm going to put away the scorecard and I'm going to focus on this aspiration of the kind of person I want to be in this relationship and hold yourself to that.

44:38How did your relationship with you evolve and change how you are as a father? Are your parents still together? Do you have a good relationship with your mother? Amazing. And do you feel that some of that is that when your mom and dad broke up, what I did was I sanctified my mom. My mom took care of me. She was in my mind and died early, so in my mind she was the saint. And my dad was the that guy off banging a steward of some continental airlines who didn't spend, didn't show up for my soccer games and abandon me. That's how I saw it. And the reality is it wasn't that black and white. And my mom, to a certain extent, unwittingly maybe kind of turned me against my father a little bit unfairly.

45:17And so as I've gotten older, I realized that nothing is black and white, that people aren't perfect. But you are in a situation now where you just have to decide where would you get the most reward in terms of your relationship with your father? An amazing relationship with your mother goes a long way. I had an amazing relationship with my mother and when someone I'm convinced that when someone tells you and I trust and hope your mom did this for you, when someone tells you you're wonderful and loves you every day, you begin to believe it. And that's what my mom gave me. But in terms of the takeaway for my dad, in terms of what I've decided to do, I just try to spend a lot of time with my kids.

45:50I don't believe in quality time. I think that's a concept invented by wealthy people with no time who don't want to spend that much time with their kids and pretend they're good dads. I find them the most important time with your kids and you have some time to figure this out is what I call garbage time. And that is the really amazing moments with your kids happen unpredictably. Driving them to school and they're not looking at you and they're like, Dad, I like this girl. And you're like, OK, and you don't say anything because those moments don't come very often and you just let them talk and you don't look at them for fear, you're going to intimidate them.

46:18and you have like one of those nice moments with your son. And the only way you get to those moments is by spending a lot of time with them because they just happen totally randomly. But the way I have tried to overcompensate the thing that really was rough for me with my father is my dad just wasn't around a lot. So I just wanna be every day at 9 p .m. Greenwich Meantime, no matter where my kids are, one of my kids is a tennis camp in Florida, one is a boarding school. At 9 p .m., I call my oldest, at 9 .15, I call my youngest. And a lot of times they block my collar. They're unavailable. But I know when they're older, they're going to go be like, yeah, dad was self -absorbed and into his own thing and flew off the handle sometimes, but called me every day.

47:01Called me every day no matter what. So what I would say is just take from your father the things that upset you and try and correct those for the next generation, right? Try and compensate and make sure that you don't fall into that same trap. Did you fund that money changed the relationships around you? My father's 95 and not doing well, so I can say this because he's like a baby now. He has no cognitive. He's not there any longer. My dad loves me more than my sister because I have more money than her. My dad was raised in Depression Era Scotland and was so obsessed with money because he lived in Glasgow in the 30s and 40s.

47:35You could starve if you didn't have money. And he had some very weird things happen to him. He was in the Navy for two years. Send his money home because he got his money stolen his first two weeks on a ship. sent all of his money home to his mother, came home and his mom had spent it on whiskey and cigarettes. So my dad just had a very unhealthy relationship with money. And it scarred him. And it scarred me because my dad was that guy who he'd be in town for the weekend and he'd take me and my friend to go see a movie. And then he'd lined up, he'd asked my friend for two bucks at the end of the movie to pay him back for the ticket.

48:06The closest my father ever came to physical violence was when we went to a hotel and I'd never seen anything called a minibar before. And I decided that I should eat and drink everything in the minibar. Yeah, so he had a very unhealthy relationship with money and the reason he came to be really impressed with me was because I made a lot of money. That's fine. I just recognize it for what it is. But for the most part, it's been a real nice thing in my relationships. It helped me take care of my mom, which was one of my objectives. And probably the most rewarding thing about making some money was I was able to take care of my mom towards the end.

48:35It removes stress from your life in terms of your kids and your partner. So on the whole, it's been a really wonderful thing for me. I enjoy it and feel like I'm good at it. You don't feel that way. I do, but I do feel that people treat me differently now than they used to. People don't argue as me as much. People stop talking when I talk when it comes to family decisions. My voice matters much more than anyone else's. Life is okay for it. But even the fact that you're self -aware enough to know that, I'm on constant editorial calls and then joining my team is 24 or 25 and some will disagree with me or say something to me.

49:07I'm like, I'm going to self -fire that motherfucker. I get angry because I have such a big ego. And then when I realize, with just a few minutes of reflection is, it's really important you keep those people around you because you can start to believe your own press. And that's also one of the wonderful things about kids. Your kids are not impressed by your professional success at all. At all. As a matter of fact, they're totally on the press of you. Like, dad is lame. I'm literally the unclosed person in the world in their eyes. But I definitely agree with you once you have money, people laugh at your jokes, people find you interesting, people want to know you.

49:37And it can lead to bad places. I have found as I got as I've gotten older, I don't make as much of an effort with people. I went to this thing at the date last night when these fancy gay lives. And I'm so used to everyone wanting to know me and starting conversations with me. And I was sitting with these artists and I thought, I need to be less arrogant. I need to be more friendly and not expect everyone just to be asking me questions and wanting to know more about me, just because I have money. Maintaining finding people in a practice that keeps you somewhat humble and grounded is really important.

50:08But even the fact you even recognize that means you're well ahead of where I was at your age. Do you feel like the public snippets, the media, TikToks and reels that go around a view or representation of who you ask or like just being transparent? I love your content coming into this. What I want to do this show, but the person that I'm interviewing now is completely different in an incredible way to the image I had of you. Do you feel like the image is not aligned to who you are? No, it's an aspect of me. So I'm an introvert. I'm happiest after an edible at night alone with my dogs, knowing my kids are safe, writing, and just being alone.

50:49And when people meet me, they're generally disappointed. I think I'm going to be some fascinating guy full of interesting data in a spurs with dick jokes. I'm an introvert. I'm fairly intense. And so that side of me is a reflection or a personality, or a side of my personality, but it's not. It's not me. And also social is the algorithms just love moments where you're making a puncturing statement or someone's calling you out. I don't think anybody who knows me, I don't know if you feel this way, would say, oh yeah, that's who that person is. I try to be authentic. I try not to put on an act, but there's no doubt about it when the cameras go on and it's show time.

51:24My favorite thing is to be around my kids and not say a word and just listen to them and just be in the company of people. my partner consistently asked to ask, encourage me, it's like, make conversation for God's sakes, you're so fucking boring. I've been paid to be an extrovert, and a few feel this way. I'm paid to be an extrovert, so how I relax is I just like to listen to other people and be an observer as opposed to participant. I'm paying to be an extrovert too. Can you help me out, Scott? I've so enjoyed this. All my relationships say, I've had enough of brand Harry. The show's not on now.

51:53The lights are off. You can turn off the facade. And I've actually, in many ways, lost who I am because I'm always on show that I've just become the on -show version. Even when I'm at home on the sofa, they'll be a show. I mean, you're at a stage in your life. You're so young and you strike me as so self -aware that you're just well ahead of where other people are. Just the fact you're asking these questions of yourself. I also think you're being a little bit hard on yourself. You've been very successful. You're in good shape. You're smart enough and self -aware enough to know about these, you know, ask yourself these questions.

52:28The only advice I would give to a guy your age that I did not engage in, I wasn't very kind. All of my energy, all of my focus was how I become more awesome and rich. Not thinking about, well, I'm in a unique opportunity to accelerate people's careers. I'm in a unique opportunity to pay people a lot of money to overcompensate them. Young people admire me because I'm the head of this company. I have a unique opportunity that when they do a good job to water them and make them feel great about themselves and just make their day. You know, you're an impressive guy. You have people who work for you.

53:02It's just such an incredible opportunity to just make people feel great all the time. And instead of paying someone a hundred thousand pounds, pay them a hundred and forty. And that makes such a difference in the world. I wish I'd taken more advantage of the human capital I was possessing to improve people's lives. Everything was about fucking me and I feel as if I like I just wasted so much opportunity. What would you have done differently? Just given more? I just would have been kinder. When someone did a good piece of work I should have called them out publicly. I wasn't bad. I was never mean.

53:36You don't know how much power you have to improve people's lives when you have some success. Tip them a hundred bucks. Give some money away. Tell people you love them. Call your friends when they do do something cool and just tell them how impressive they are. You know, men have a tough time doing that with other men. If you're in a good relationship, telling someone how much they mean to you. That's one final thing for you, quick fire. We haven't done much. When you think about sustaining a marriage through wealth creation, through kids, through kids going to boarding school, what have been your biggest lessons on what it takes is to sustain a truly loving marriage through very different cycles of life.

54:13It goes back to that first thing. first thing is put away the scorecard, say like, what kind of husband do I want to be? Like write it out, what kind of husband do I want to be? And then live to that standard. Instead of saying, well, your parents are in town. You weren't very nice to my parents, so I'm not going to be nice to yours or decide what kind of husband, don't keep score. Just decide, I want to be a wonderful husband. What does that mean? And live to that standard. Notice their lives. You're so successful that you're going to get so used to just everyone applauding for you. you need to take time to figure out a way such that your partner has stages that strangers and other people are plotting for her.

54:48I really go out of your way to try and give her venues and arenas and environments where strangers can applaud for her. So it's just not always about your success and you all the time. Always express physical affection and sexual desire. It says, I choose you. I think women want to be wanted. I think that's so important in a relationship. Like whenever you're feeling affectionate, whenever you want to hold their hand, whenever you want to, more than you can, whenever you want to have sex, express that hunger, express that love, express that affection. I think it's really important in a relationship.

55:19And then try to take time to just appreciate and articulate, you know, what you've built together and really appreciate one another. I think the reason we get together is not to make more economic security or make children. I think it's such that we have someone to witness our lives, to notice our lives. And I've been married before and I think one of the reasons that I wasn't a great husband the first go around I didn't witness her life I didn't notice her life. I didn't Whenever she was upset about something I just wanted to manage my way out of it because I didn't want to deal with it as opposed to really listening and witnessing and noticing and noticing What was going on in her life and celebrating her victories and just taking notes because I was just I was in a Hall of mirrors.

55:57I looked outside the window and I saw myself so Not keeping score or expressing physical desire, recognizing what you've built together and witnessing their life. Have you found a stage of marriage harder than others? Be it kids going to boarding school, be it changing countries, be it refining a chapter of yourself, becoming parents? Oh, there's a lot. I mean, the first time I realized I wasn't going to be able to have sex with other women, that was a real bummer. I miss that a lot. Do you tell her that? Oh, yeah. I mean, I think she feels the same way. Little kids are hard, very stressful, especially if you're both working, really stressful.

56:36I barely remember those two or three years, but I remember being really stressful. She was working, my partner was working a gold man. I was starting a business. It was a lot. She was up at 5 .30 in the morning with two babies. I was trying to build a business. That was really hard. Do you agree, navigate to that angry? Yeah. Would I have a practice with my partner is that I get in bad no matter what time it is. I stay up late and it sounds very hallmark. I spoon her. So yeah, we don't go to bed angry. We, and my partner, so vocal and willing to tell me everything that's, that's not ideal that we don't.

57:09It's almost impossible. Things, things very rarely go un -set. I would just say try to be more motive and tell people what you're thinking. And if you're upset and be generous and listen to them and hey, everyone has their own dynamic. I don't know. I get that the northern Europeans just walk around Marose all the time and it seems to work for them. I think a lot of it is just situational, but I'll go back to one of the things. I think it's just so important to articulate how fortunate you are and we've built together and I send my partner pictures of my kids when they were younger and I constantly highlight, well, I wasn't a great that we can do this and she will say to me, you know, I'm really happy right now and that makes me feel really good because I've seen it as a reflection on my confidence as a man that she's really happy.

57:52But all of this is situational, you know, it's, it's the biggest decision you'll make. It's not where you work or where you live. Your biggest decision you make is who you decide to have kids with because you're in that person's life, whether you want to or not for 25 years. And so it's a really important decision. And I have a lot of very successful friends that have a really lovely spouse, but not a real partner and their life is full of unnecessary anxiety. And then I have friends who aren't that successful professionally, but have a real partner and everything burns just a little bit brighter.

58:21So it's hands down the most important decision you'll make. And for a young man like you, all you want to do is be out a lot in meaning as many people as possible, but also giving stuff a chance and seeing where it goes. People would pray for your problems. You have everyone you listen to, everyone who hears you talk about your problems is going to go, I would kill for those problems. I'm not exaggerating. I'm embarrassed. You're the first person I told about this. I've been in a funk for the last 72 hours because there was a hugely successful IPO a few weeks ago. And I had a chance to invest and I got the CEO texting me.

58:53I was going to get allocation of the IPO and it was just too fucking lazy to follow up. And this was a monster IPO. And all I can think about is the fact that I'm just so angry and upset. And I'm embarrassed because I don't need more money, but I'm still just so fucking angry at myself that I miss this opportunity. Why, though? If you don't need more money. Because you know, it's hard to get off the hamps or wheel of identifying yourself as team and your worth with money. And also I would love a bunch more money to give away. And a capitalist society, it's really sad that the more money you have, the more power you have, the more virtue you have, we're willing to forgive a guy who this owns his children on podcasts and is being sued by two women concurrently for sole custody of their child and cuts off food stamps to kids and benefits to veterans because he's the richest man in the world.

59:39I mean, in a capitalist society, every signal is telling you there's never enough. So I think it's sort of a natural or an understandable instinct. Is that anything you would do differently if you had a billion dollars? What would you do differently? Oh, I'd give a lot more money away. I'm not sincere. Anything above my number now I give away at the end of the year. I don't do it out of ethics or virtue. I do it because it makes me feel important. Will you give you money to your children? Would you believe in in actions? Yeah, I'll give them some money. I'll give enough money so they can always have a house.

1:00:10I was a Ford education. I'll give them a start, but they won't hurt. I won't give them a ton of money. I'll give them... I love a warm buff. It's said I'll give them enough such that they can do anything, but not enough so they can do nothing. I'll give them enough money so that they always know they can afford a home for their kids' education. You know, it's a lot of money. I'm not even building a dynasty or anything like that. I know a lot of rich kids. They're not any less happy than other kids, but they're not any happier. I know a little of rich kids in London, and they all... They all marched us happy.

1:00:37It's no reason to get up. They put most of it up their nose. And there's no passion. I can get the Ferrari. I can get the Lamborghini. Why would I bother doing the work to get it? The joy is in the work. Having money is great, but it was the getting it. It was really rewarding, right? Did you go up with money? No. So you know what it's like? It's just so rewarding. I didn't either. It's so rewarding now to spend money that you made and have some success. That's just such. But I had this anger at society. I saw a family home be taken away and I had this like ruthless dissolve to revenge against what I thought was a brutal Anomphas system for taking my family home.

1:01:14You have had those fires in that anger. You were talking about rich kids. If my dad had been rich and I knew I was gonna have money The only two things I know I would have in my life were a Range Rover and a cocaine habit. I'm not a self -motivated I'm a fundamentally lazy person and not having money and and growing up in America and just seeing how important it was and also feeling humiliation around not being able. My mom got very sick and not being able to take care of her and having that amount of stress in a capitalist society in the US where you're undershirt and if you don't have money it's really difficult to deal with real illness.

1:01:51That was really, really motivating for me. And I think probably the same that same disappointment and anger, those are embers that have burned and motivated and probably been net net positive for you. So recognize that those things you it sounds like you channeled into very productive ambition and now take the gratitude and try and extinguish that anger. Can we do a quick far on? I've so enjoyed this. I'm going to say a short statement. You give me your immediate thoughts. Sure. What one belief do you have that most people think would be insane? Well, on a practical level, that young people need to drink more.

1:02:26I get a lot of push back from that. But my source of power that most people don't engage in is I'm an atheist. I'm 100 % convinced at some point I'm going to look into my kids eyes and know our relationship is coming to an end. But it's hugely empowering for me. Knowing that everyone I'm worried about what they think, worried about being shamed, worried about being embarrassed, it doesn't matter that they're going to be dead soon and so am I. So my atheism is like this incredible source of courage and comfort that I think a lot of people don't have the joy of participating in. How does knowing that you'll be dead soon in the Atheism change how you act in a Dady basis?

1:03:01Most people don't start companies because they're worried about public failure. Most people don't approach a strange woman much hotter than them because they're worried about embarrassment. Most people don't ask for 30 million dollars for their VC fund because they don't think they're qualified or they're worried about public embarrassment. Most people don't tell other people they love them because they're worried about it not being reciprocated. We're all going to be dead soon. It doesn't matter. Why wouldn't you take all sorts of risks with the even if it has a very outside shot of paying off?

1:03:31Why would you be scared? Why would you care what the downside? And you know, her people, as long as you're not taking stupid risks, if you want to score above your weight class economically and romantically, get out of big spoon, get ready to eat shit, endure rejection. And if you ask someone for money or a job, and you don't get the money or the job, or you ask someone out on a date and you don't get the date, you're all going to be just fine, you're all going to end up dead, but the person who is unafraid and asked for all of those things every day ends up wealthier and with a higher character mate than there appears.

1:04:04What were you most afraid to ask for? I'd say mine was like, we raised $400 million last year. I was fucking nervous about that. It was at $140 to $400. If it went wrong, I would have been McCoolie Culkin, the kid who failed and where is he now. Yeah, I've always had that. I've always had a certain level of impostor syndrome. So I didn't think I was going to get into college and I didn't and then I got in and I felt like I fooled them and then I got into Morgan Stanley and I felt like it fooled me. But I've always done it, but I've always felt like impostor. If you don't feel impostor syndrome, you're either arrogant or not reaching far enough.

1:04:36So I'm consistently kind of embarrassed to ask for stuff, but I'd never got in the way. I don't, I got past that pretty early. One of the best things that happened for me was I ran for sophomore junior and senior class president in high school and lost all three times and based on my track record, I decided to run for student body president where I lost. I asked seven women to prom while seven said no. And I think that is built to level. It didn't traumatize me. It built a level of calluses and scar tissue where I'm sort of, I'm just not afraid of rejection. If I could teach my kids any skill would be one to communicate but two to be able to endure rejection to be able to mourn and move on.

1:05:12What do you think is great communication? The ability to make people feel something. The communication that resonates for me with people is when I write about putting my dog down. When I write about coming home from a long business trip and noticing that my kids had grown and wondering if I'm what's the point of all this success if I register my kids growth because I'm not home for two weeks. Something that makes people feel something where you talk about something in a very real vulnerable way and it makes people feel something. You mentioned your father, Adieu. What do you biggest lessons from your mother?

1:05:41You know unconditional love is is is everything I giving I said this before if you tell people you love them and that they have value every day They can't help but at some point believe it. That's what you gave to me Do you tell your boys you love them every day every day? What if you changed your mind on in the last 12 months? I'm very open to change But I can't think of like any one big thing where I've changed my view on it. I'm drinking less I've decided that I've always said I love alcohol. I've stopped I've just substantial reducing my alcohol because I realized my 60 year old liver isn't what it used to be.

1:06:13I'm very passionate about being a good interview. I care deeply about telling people stories and bluntly having a great experience. When you reflect back on the many interviews that you've done, for people that listen to you say, and go, fuck, he was great. What would you say other than this is the best reflection of you in an interview in a piece of writing, in a article in your mind. I started with happiness. I started with anger and depression. I wrote a book called The Elder Repariveness. I read every book and study on happiness and it's my least best selling book and that's what I want my kids to read.

1:06:48Scott, as I said, it wasn't the show I was quite expecting but this was incredible and it's one of the reasons why I love what I do doing shows like this. So thank you so much for doing this with me. Thank you and congratulations on all your success and don't be so hard on yourself. Forgive yourself. I mean I have to say shows like that really remind me why I love what I do so much. A huge thanks to Scott for being such a fantastic guest there. If you want to see the episode you can find it on YouTube by searching for 20VC, that's 2 -0VC on YouTube. But before we leave you today, I love seeing the team come together to make this show happen.

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