20VC: Tinder Founder Sean Rad on Lessons Scaling Tinder to the Fastest Growing Consumer Social App in History | Leadership Lessons Scaling Tinder | The Future of Love, Dating and Social Media | The Secret to Your Relationship with Money and Marriage

26:33Was it international expansion, new city? If so, what city, what country was it, new product? If so, what product? What segment was the hardest in unlocking the next? Yeah, so international expansion was one of the hardest things because, first of all, building a global organization is not these. Building a global team and making people in another country feel like they are a part of the team, even though the executive team isn't there, sitting with them, that's not an easy thing. But it was particularly difficult around the Tinder product because in the beginning, in the early days, we thought localization meant that the language of the app had to adapt to the language of the user.

27:15But localization is much more early Because particularly around social human connection and relationships, there are cultural differences in everywhere in the world which means the product had to adapt to meet those cultural differences, which means tinder was slightly different as a product in every country which means we had many product organizations servicing the same core product. What was the strangest product alteration that you had to make? I'll give you two stories. In Korea, group dating, that's like the socially accepted norm. It's actually very rare that I would go out one on one. It's usually friends or double dates.

28:00Like we're going out as a group. So group dating was a huge thing. Which like, so we had to like really think about that experience. Like reorient tender as a group dating. Not as an individual dating. But then what was interesting is we, as we reorient that it got us thinking like, like, well, could that be a thing everywhere else? Maybe that's actually more effective means of connecting. So can we bring group dating? Can we make that a thing? Can we make that easy? I mean, naturally a lot of times we go out with our friends, you know, but, you know, we did really double date until it's later into the relationship.

28:33So that was one thing that was interesting to tackle. Another thing was that in India, it was not really a system of dating and marriage that was very much curated by your parents. Your parents decide. And I think that was a moment in time where we were like, Hey, we could adapt the product to that, but actually no. We're not going to because we believed in empowerment and we believed that you should be in control of your own fate when it comes to law. So that was actually sort of a moment where we're like, no, we're not changing the product. Even if it means we're going to have less users, because it was socially less acceptable.

29:15So it's like unique things like that, where it's like, wow, the social norms and the dynamics are just completely different. Okay, in hyperscaling, you have so many decisions coming at you so fast. What did you do that you wish you hadn't done? I'll give you two lessons there. I would say the Tinder team was is maniacally good about focus and prioritizing and saying, no, and keeping the product simple. Well, we believed in simplicity. I think if you look at the tender product, it's very simple. I would always reiterate the Albert Einstein quote, which is like, if something isn't simple enough, it's because you don't understand it enough.

29:55The more you get an essence of something, the simpler it actually becomes. And it's like, fools make things more complex. So prioritizing and picking our battles was very critical. That became a little harder as we scaled. In the early days, we were very much one team, all building towards one product. Everyone was involved in one release. We all knew what everyone was doing. Even by the time we were like 100 people, that was still the case. And then there's a certain point once we expanded, you had to sort of divide and conquer. and you had more capabilities and you had more teams. So you wanted to feed them with projects, so you lowered your bar of what you would do.

30:37And then I think the clarity and focus started to dwindle and then we had to figure out how can we divide and conquer but all map towards one cohesive vision, which became the next challenge. We had an environment where we really wanted to give people freedom to execute. like I heated the top down bureaucratic approach to creation. Now I can come to the company and say, here's my vision, here's where I think we should go, but I'm not gonna solve it. Everyone sort of bottoms up, come up with solutions and take ownership. So we really wanted to instill that bottoms up. Everyone has a voice. The best ideas will win mere, mere credit culture.

31:20And then sometimes the bigger you get, that could lead to a little bit of drift and people doing things that maybe they shouldn't be doing, or they have nowhere the company has no business doing, as you scale, you have to build new systems to protect against drift. All this is a thing that didn't work biggest and what did you learn from it? In the early days, very few people know this, but we had every user sort of got to point where they had a lot of matches, where it was almost like you would open the app and you're like, I don't wanna meet someone new, I need to make sense of all the people who already wanna connect with me.

31:53So we started shifting our focus to like post -match. What we wanted to do is create more moments where you could get to know your matches and find opportunities for connection. So we created this product called Moments, which was sort of Instagram Stories before Instagram Stories. You could share a moment like something you're doing in the real world and it was an expiring 24 hour moment and people could reply to it and your matches could be like, oh, you know, great. And we all love the product so much. that we were like, you know what? Maybe this could be for friends. Maybe we let Tinder be more than just romantic connections.

32:32Maybe you can add your friends and you can share moments with your friends. So we started, we started to try to shift from a dating product to a social network and we very quickly learned we have no business to me. Our brand, our mission, our thesis is very much about creating new connections, introducing here someone new, we worked in the business of connecting you with your friends. And our users did a one. At some point we also said, hey, let's create an app to help you make friends. And we very quickly learned that no one wants to open an app to make friends, like that's a very desperate, weird experience.

33:14And then we said, well, could we apply Tinder's mechanism to business connections? And then we quickly learned, well, no one wants to swipe and match and make new business connections. And so that was a real realization actually that that wasn't what people came to for. Yeah, it was a reminder, I think, the more we scaled, the lessen was always focus. Focus on your mission. Focus on what you're good at. Stop trying to be something you're not. Every company needs to continuously fucking relearn. It's like even when Steve Jobs left Apple and he came back, what did he do? He killed a bunch of products because he said we have no business doing these other products.

33:54This isn't in the DNA and the soul of the company. So I think when you get bigger and you have more money and you have more resources, you fall in this trap of, oh, we could do more things. But you have to stop and ask yourself just because we can. Do we have any business doing those things? Does that map to our core competencies? Is that why the thousands of employees we have actually joined this company? And if you're going to change that vision, there better be a very good reason. And it's got to be bottoms up. It's got to be start with because your users aren't asking for that. None of our users ask for a friend -making app or a business -making app.

34:30How effective was paid in the early days? I'm just thinking about what you said there on constraints. If you don't have the constraints, you've got to spend a lot of money on paid. It was highly effective. Our perspective on paid features was the only reason we would charge you is if charging you for that feature made the ecosystem bet. Meaning, if we gave that capability to free to everyone, it would actually dilute the quality of the ecosystem. The first feature we launched that really started making a lot of money was the super like. So we wanted to have this signal that you're not just someone I swiped for up the right right on your extra special.

35:12It's sort of like in the real world, I can walk up to someone and say, hey, what's up? Or I can walk up to someone and maybe this might not be a good idea and say, you know what? I feel the strong connection. I really like you. There was sort of like the next level of romance. That was what the super like was. But if we actually gave it to free, it would have no value. So we gave one free to everyone and then we charged if you wanted to super like again. What the one free did is it took away the desperation. So someone didn't know, did I use my one free on you or did I actually spend money to get your attention?

35:47Which could make me look desperate. So it gave me the sort of excuse like the out, but then I can spend money to buy more super likes and super like we're often. But again, charging for that not only allowed us to build better products, it created more revenue, allowed us to fulfill our mission, and built the business, but it also made the product better because it created a new feature where it made sense for us to church. The free is smart because it removes the desperation. The hard thing is you don't want to be like, you paid Fred and it's too desperate. I am intrigued. You said about kind of the curation on liking.

36:22How do you feel about the league, which takes it to the extreme, which has like three per day, and that's all you're gonna get? Look, I don't subscribe to anything that's elitist. I think in many ways a lot of these dating apps are elitist. Living in a world where one person or one group is better than another. Bumble is elitist. Why, you know, women go first, women have all the control. Why? I'm actually not even sure that's good for women. It was always a weird concept. I'm like, what? It was a good marketing gimmick, but I don't think it actually ever made sense. And then, you know, the least perspective is, you know, you have to be, you know, some educated, highly educated, or Raya's perspective is you have to be cool and rich.

37:10Like, fuck that. Tinder was always, you're yourself, we're gonna find and match you with people who love you for you. And everyone deserves love and everyone deserves a match. We wanted to solve core human issues. We didn't want to give a leg up to one group or another group. Are you proud of the Tinder product today? I haven't been there in a long time, so would I look at the product and say, I'm proud of the existing iteration of the product? I think I look at the product now and say, fuck, like all the missed opportunity, because when the core team, when I left, and then others left, there was a lot of unfinished business.

37:49We had a roadmap that I would say was like 10 years long. We knew once we achieved this, it's going to open opportunity to this, it's going to open opportunities to this. So I think I would look at the product right now and I would say, it looks the same as when I left. That makes me sad because when I was there, when the team was there, actually we had a rule that every year we had to redesign the entire product. That was a rule. We would redesign the entire experience every year because we didn't want people to get bored and stagnant and we didn't want to become complacent as a team. So we would have to have one major redesign every year which then forced us to reimagine all the futures And I think it was a brilliant exercise because it kept taking it to the next level the energy the passion Maybe isn't as strong as it was in the early days, but that's also again natural course of business as you scale Do you agree with Whitney's take that we're gonna have essentially a eyes talk to each other go alas, see if you like me and I like you, AI.

38:52And then we both like tennis for a match. Is that how we'll have like a virtual dating self? That is a very sad idea. The journey is part of the reward. Me actually talking to someone, getting to know them, helps me learn about myself, helps me learn about them. It's not about a transaction. Romance is a journey. It's not just an end to a means. I think abstracting away the journey is a stupidest idea I've ever heard. And you learn a lot about that journey and look, it's like addiction is when something is too easy, when you get a free dopamine hit without doing a lot of work and you actually feel worse about yourself.

39:34When you have to work for something, the world war is even greater. I didn't have money when I grew up and I read on the tin that when you got money you would be happy. I got a little bit of money, no, why did it as much as you did for Tinder? But I wasn't very happy. And it was a very awkward time of like, shit, if the thing I've always been chasing isn't actually the thing that I was promised it was. What do I do now? How do you reflect on your relationship to money? Number one, you said it. Money does not buy you happiness. I mean, up to a certain point, you want freedom. Money brings you freedom.

40:12freedom does enable happiness. But after a certain point, it doesn't make you happier. If you're not careful, it could actually complicate your life a lot more. You can accumulate more shit. It could change your relationships. What stage does it complicate? Because at some stage you have to have a family office. And then you have to be able to manage your family office. And then taxes become a complete nightmare. And all of this becomes change. For me, and it took me a while to see this, but I live a life that is much less than I can afford to live because I don't want change, I don't want stuff, I don't value those things.

40:55I don't care about a yacht. My friends are my childhood friends. Building, creating products, solving problems is what makes me happy. And I think there's a lot of other things when you have a lot of freedom, you can kind of get crushed by the paradox of choice and possibilities. When I achieve that freedom, it was also very hard because what do you do when at least financially and to some extent as entrepreneurs can kind of do anything? So it's sort of a harder problem, harder to find meaning when you're living in a world of ineffited possibilities. And I actually think that's why globally there is a little bit of a crisis of meaning because we're out of moment in history where regardless of your wealth by any means we are all way wealthier and have access to way more resources than previous generations.

41:48Which also has expanded the options and possibilities and who we can be cut. Do you think that's actually the case? So I don't mean to be provocative, but you know, when we look at the price of food today, when we look at the increasing homelessness, when we look at the increasing levels of drug addiction, does not feel like the standard of living is getting much better? Yeah, we can get. No, I didn't say the standard of living is getting better. I said our access to resources are getting better. The more abundance we have, if we're not careful, can actually impact our quality of life. Because more choice isn't necessarily better.

42:27It's like when you show up to the restaurant and you have a book this big of Items it's not easier to make your choice of what you want to order than if if it's just one page of something that's highly cure You know in a world where more than ever any time in history you can get on YouTube and learn anything You can become anything We're more free than any generation. We have more possibility than any generation I think it also becomes harder to identify who you are, what you want, and meaning in your life. And I think at a different scale, success sort of created that same challenge. My whole life was building companies, trying to make money, getting to the point that I wanted to be.

43:06And then when I got there, I was kind of like, okay, now what? Who am I? What do I do with my time? And I could do anything with my time. So what is meaning? And that requires you to look inward and really self -explanatory. or you can look outward and replace it with a bunch of noise and shit that actually distracts you from answering that question meaning. In a sense, that's why I say, you know, kind of getting what you want can create the next challenge. Life is a journey of challenges. There's never, you're never going to get to the end of the road. Yeah, I think I'll just buy the big assy.

43:38Much, much better. You'll buy the Bugatti, you'll enjoy it for two weeks, and then you'll get over. I won't actually, because I'm legally in order. I'm not allowed to drive Sean, so I'd have to sit in it stationary, but I wouldn't enjoy it. So then you decide, okay, I'm going to do a family office and I'm going to invest a lot more work, a lot more hands -on with many more companies. Why? Why not do another company? You said you had a tiny... I've done both. So I have a family office where we've invested in over 100 different companies and funds. And I enjoy that because it allows me to meet other great entrepreneurs to give back, to mentor, to learn myself.

44:20But at heart, I'm a builder, I'm a problem sol. That's what gets me up in the morning. I don't talk about it, because I've started four companies since Tinder, but I just kind of purposely, I think I kind of learn, like it's a little easier to build without a lot of attention. Post -success, do you have a lot more leverage? Anyone who has accumulated experience and wealth also accumulates freedom in my fridge. No matter what stage. So of course I would say I have more options. I can think bigger and so you have a CEO for each business Yes, that runs day to day and then you finance and do strategy with them.

44:57Yes I think it's really rewarding position to be in because I can focus on strategy and trust others to run the business Doesn't mean that I don't come in and get detailed and help in the areas where maybe I'm the best person to do something but I've found a lot of meaning in building. So I'm not gonna stop building. What were the biggest lessons you had in setting up the family office? Investing is hard. And it's a whole life job. Investing requires a lot of discipline. It requires you to really experiment, understand what works for you. You know, at a certain point, you have to build an organization.

45:37It's like building a company. Carries all the challenges of building a company. You have to have a vision, a thesis, you make mistakes and learn, you iterate, you become better over time. So, you know, the family office is no different than building a company. We're just in the business of investing. Did you have a clear strategy from day one? I'm going to put 25 % in directs, 25 % in funds, 25 % in cash, 25 % in property. I had a high level vision, but I was also, I iterated the more I learned. What did you start with and what did it change to? Most of what the family office does is we invest a lot in real estate, because I think real estate is an amazing asset class.

46:20We invest a lot in venture. That's direct or through funds. And we invest a lot in public equities. We invest a lot in credit and debt. There's different things. And then there's a lot of things we don't... There's a lot of things that we don't do either, because I don't feel like we understand it enough. We're not good at it. You know, for me, it's really focusing on the areas where we can add a value where we have an edge and you know Who knows it morphe's you know, his new opportunities present itself We're optimistic but for the most part it really is following Passion and love and the things that I enjoy working on and I want to work on and I want to spend time on and Eliminating distractions as much as possible.

47:04Well, it's been the single -bast investment and probably SpaceX. You've asked that a lot in SpaceX very, very early. That'll do it. The thesis there was actually very simple. I was, I admire Elon. I think he's a once in a lifetime entrepreneur. I was just willing to let him investment. What was the worst investment and lessons from it? If you don't want to say what it actually was, by all means. But what were the lessons from it? The worst investments were... I chased the idea and not the team. So there were moments where I'm like, fuck, this idea is so good. I'm not really sure about the team.

47:43Like do they have the passion, the energy to go and execute? Is their heart really in it? And I kind of ignore those elements, because I'm like, oh, my idea is so good. I don't wanna miss out. And nine times out of 10, never works. So the number one thing is team and passion. I think you want a team that their heart and soul Is in it like you have a founder market fit. They are building the product for themselves. They are the customer, they understand it. It's coming out of some personal problem or experience. So they won't give up when times get tough. They'll power through, they'll iterate.

48:20They're law of teams that are humble, self -aware, are able to recognize when they made a mistake and adapt versus constantly make excuses. This didn't work out. Let's blame the market. Let's blame the circumstances rather than let's look at it. Will you invest in someone you don't like? Not anymore. Why not anymore? Because it never works out. I think I have the luxury, the gift of being able to work with people that I really enjoy working with. And again, that's what life is about. It's about relationships. The money doesn't matter if you don't have great friendships, relationships, partnerships, and loves it in what you're doing.

49:00It's like love is the energy that I think produces the best outcomes and the greatest results. Good segue, thank you for that. That's very nice to you, team me up perfectly because I think you literally must have facilitated more love in the world than anyone else in human history. 50 billion matches, according to your Twitter bio. My question to you is, you have an incredible relationship with your other half. What are the most non -obvious secrets, pieces of advice on how to have a thriving relationship. No, no, obvious. It is very, very hard. Relationships, I think, for you, when they're good, to become better as a person.

49:41But in order to become better, you've got to stick through the hard times. Not give up. Do you think we give up too easily today? I think because we have more options than we have had in any moment in history, that increasingly we have the ability to switch and give up. You go back in some moment of time, it's like you were in a tiny little village. If you're lucky, there was one person that you loved and cutting bait. I mean, where are we really gonna go? You've had to stick through it. Now, you could quit and you could say, okay, I'm gonna treat this for something better. But I think the reality is, every relationship comes with challenges.

50:21It's just a question of which challenges. Once you stick through all the hard moments and you keep getting better and elevating, and then you look back and it's like with my wife, it's just like what we said about companies. Like all those challenges made us better. They brought us close or stronger as a result. We're more resilient. The other day, I got into a little thing with my wife. She had this moment, she's like, oh, like, is this gonna always be a problem? I didn't, you know, are we gonna get through this? And I kind of looked at him like, Babe, we've been through. We've overcome all these challenges.

50:55So the answer is yes. I mean, if this is like, you know, we've overcome every other challenge, every other moment where it's been like, oh, this is so hard, we've prevailed and we've become better. So this is no different. When you have the mindset that every challenge is working for you and is bringing you closer, that's when you grow. You can't grow without challenges. You know, that's the thing of life. I mean, if it was all rainbows and butterflies, what's the point? Sacks, honesty, trust, and laughter. The four pillars, sex, honesty, trust, and laughter. I think that's a good formula. Yeah, where would you put one through four?

51:32Sacks, honesty, trust. To me, it's like one thing leads to another. When you have honesty, you have trust. When you have trust, you have laughter. When you have laughter, you have sex. I wish. I made lots of girls laugh. There's one thing I want to discuss before we do a quick fire. And it's you said kind of cavalierly almost that things end. It almost seemed quite natural. A question that I have for you is, how do you think about your own spirituality? How do you think about dying? Just talk to me about that. I think it's quite an important one. Well, I don't believe I'm going to get really spiritual with you.

52:12I don't believe our soul dies. I think our soul carries on and our soul through many lifetimes, including what we leave behind in the memories. We're sort of always contributing and always growing and always facing new challenges of elevating and maybe a soul level. But our body dies, our presence on this earth dies. But I think our soul dies. You scared of that. No, you can't have lights without darkness and you can't have life without death. If you would never die, and that means you're never willing to die for something, and that means you don't have a life of meaning. And if you never have darkness, that means you're never overcoming anything and you're never risking, and you have a very bland, monotone existence.

53:07is dying for something the ultimate form of meaning. Standing for something and willing to take risks for what you believe in, and really love, I think the energy of that is love, right? So love is what makes me overcome obstacles, what makes me stick through. That to me is a meaning for me. What was the hardest thing to stick through? Building a company is not easy. you have moments when you're getting crushed. Any entrepreneur knows this. When you're losing it. You don't have a nae underpound gorilla come into the room and that's Benji. People tried, but money doesn't solve, money doesn't create innovation.

53:49If money resulted in innovation, then you would never have disruption. I think so, it's like just because you have more money, does mean you can beat us. Because this is mean you're the most creative. In fact, I would actually say sometimes constraints This force creativity forces you to focus, forces you to prioritize. When your resource constraints, you automatically don't do the shit you shouldn't be doing, you're forced to make a decision with your time, with your money. So I don't think necessarily more money. In fact, there's many startups that actually failed because they raised too much money.

54:23And they threw money at the problem, and they threw people at the problem, and they didn't actually tussle or force themselves to think out of the box or get creative and find new ways to solve a problem. So I don't think more money necessarily solves problems. I agree with that completely. I think it also makes for problems in relationships. Did making a lot of money change the dynamic of your relationship? I'm fortunate enough that I was able to navigate all of that to kind of... Did you take money out the way through Tinder? I didn't mean that too invasive. A little. A little bit. We took a notion, I'm a big believer in this, that take a little bit along the way to live and be comfortable.

55:02I think the more you can create freedom, the more you can give to what matters, which is your company or your relationships, and sometimes money buys that freedom, and it allows you to focus even more. So we did take money along the way and our investors wanted us to do that because I think they realized that That if we alleviated some of that pressure then we can go even harder But we didn't take too much. Sorry. I'm being specific, but a lot of founders go like I didn't get it Like is 5 million in secondary for a founded too much would you say whoa Harry? I think I think it's a better way to think about it in terms of percentages is Is 5 million too much if you're having a billion dollar company?

55:45No, it's 5 million too much if your company is worth 20 million and someone you know That's a different scenario What do people not understand about wealth that they should do? China one so for first of all wealth does not bring you happiness Meaning brings you happiness wealth can create meaning up to some point Or it could give you freedom to sort of create meaning up to some points but wealth on its own, does not bring happiness. And I think the other thing people don't ask enough is what is wealth? If I have great relationships in my life, I have a job that I absolutely love. I feel like I'm making a contribution to those around me.

56:24I'm living the life of meaning and purpose in my wealthy, even if I don't have a lot in my bank account, I would say, yeah, you're wealthy. I think people also have to question what is wealth? Is wealth the Bugatti? Is wealth the yacht? But if the person sitting in the yacht has cancerous relationships is secretly really lonely and isolated and has a lot of noise and has no freedom and no time to be thoughtful, then is that well? I get to watch you all day, but I do want to do a quick fire round. So I'm going to give you a shot. Okay. So what do you believe that most around you disbelieve? That America is the greatest country in the history of all countries.

57:02Do you think you want a good spot right now? I think we're going through growing pains, but I think we're still a greatest country in the world. I know you're in the UK, UK is pretty great too. No, no, no, no. We are an ailing economy that is slowly moving into complete irrelevance, but I find it funny, because you, wonderful Americans, still love to spend your wonderful US dollars on our soil, and go, ah, Hermes on Bond Street. You, you, you, you, you, you, I want my favorite places in the world. There we go. We welcome you. We should just embrace hospitality is the only thing that we have and recognize.

57:35That means here. So, you know what, fuck it. Just take everyone's dollars and get them all to come here. But you feel America is in good shape. Do you think the AI is bullshit? And the, my and viruses is cancerous thing for Vading Society. Look, I think diversity is important. Diversity of perspective, diversity of thought, creating an environment that is mere, mere, of credit is equally as important. Do you know what a laughing of that diversity invade my autocracy? Now I think we've got identity politics invade meritocracy. I think we wanna live in a society where I am judged not based on my identity, my age, LAN, but I'm judged based on my contribution and the merits of my work.

58:23And what's beautiful about tech and innovation is that you have an ecosystem where in my case, you could be a young kid, or in my parents' case, they came to this country with $20 in their pockets and had the opportunity regardless of their background to work hard and succeed, and that is the American dream. It's the underdog story that you can overcome obstacles and pursue your happiness without your identity being a limiting factor. I don't think we're a perfect meritocracy. I think we need to improve our meritocracy and we need to have more equal opportunity, but I think equal outcomes very bad thing.

59:06What concerns you most in the world, St. John, that we lose America's fragile, the ideals that built America fragile, and that we easily take them for granted and we lose those values, such as freedom of speech, such as free will, such as meritocracy. Do you feel you have freedom of speech today? I think we do have freedom of speech. It is under attack now, whether people actually use their freedom of speech and feel safe to speak up is a different story. I think your courage, there's a great Winston Churchill quote, courage is the strength to stand up and speak, but also sit down and listen. So I think we need more of that.

59:51We need the courage to speak up, but we also need the courage to listen. And one thing that makes America the greatest country in the world is our openness to debate. And debates leads to better ideas. And it leads to a stronger merit -talkers. And when you have a cancel culture where people don't feel safe to speak up and speak their views, or you have a culture where people are not willing or tolerant of other people's views or sit down and listen. then the outcomes never gonna be great. We've seen that story before. And I also think we're losing, I think something that scares me, that we talk a lot about freedom speech, but we don't talk a lot about free will.

1:00:31I think right now, social media platforms are to some extent violating my free will by algorithmically picking what content I see and not giving me choice in that equation. It's the equivalent of turning on the TV and Comcast deciding what I see. But I can't switch the channel. Can't switch from CNN to Fox News. There's no opt out button. There's no opt in button. When social media was a follower based economy, I think it was a lot healthier of an ecosystem. This move to an algorithm based economy has its benefits. There is some amazing things about that, but I think we are slowly sacrificing free will.

1:01:11And if you have free speech, but you don't have free will, then there's no point of having free speech. When I plot out 10 years, Sean, Why do you want to be in 10 years? Doing a job I love. Having meaningful relationships, family, children, enjoying every moment, good or bad, having fun. Dude, as you said, there's not many questions that I haven't asked here. I can't thank you enough for being so open. This has been incredible and I really appreciate it. Thanks, buddy. This was really fun. Now, shows like that are why I love doing what I do. I interviewed Sean many years ago. we stayed friends and having the ability to have that great conversation is just really special.

1:01:50You can watch the full video on YouTube by searching for 20VC, that's 2 -0VC. But before we leave you today, when a promising start -up files for an IPO or a venture capital firm loses its marquee partner, being the first to know gives you an advantage and time to plan your strategic response. Chances are, the information reported it first. The information The translation is the trusted source for that important first look at actionable news across technology and finance, driving decisions with breaking stories, proprietary data tools, and a spotlight on industry trends. With a subscription, you will join an elite community that includes leaders from the top VC firms, CEOs from Fortune 500 companies, and esteemed banking and investment professionals.

1:02:32In addition to mastery journalism in your inbox every day, you'll engage with fellow leaders in the active discussions or in -person ad exclusive events, learn more and access a special offer for 20VC's listeners at www .theinformation .com slash deals slash 20VC. And speaking of incredible products that allows your team to do more, we need to talk about secure frame. Secure frame provides incredible levels of trust to your customers through automation. Secure frame empowers businesses to build trust with customers by simplifying information security and compliance through AI and automation. Thousands of fast -growing businesses, including NASDAQ, ANGEL list, DUDELE and CODA, trust secure frame, to expedite their compliance journey for global security and privacy standards such as SOC2, ISO 2701, HIPER, GDPR and more.

1:03:24But by top tier investors and corporations such as Google, Client of Perkins, the company is among the Forbes list of top 100 startup employers for 2023, free, and business insiders list of the 34 most promising AI startups of 2023. Learn more to date at Secureframe .com it really is a must. And finally a company is nothing without its people. The global law firm built around startups and venture capital. Since forming the first venture fund in Silicon Valley, Coole has formed more venture capital funds than any other law firm in the world with 60 plus years working with VCs. They help VCs form and manage funds, make investments and handle the myriad issues that arise through a fund's lifetime.

1:04:06We use them at 20 VC and have loved working with their teams in the US, London and Asia over the last few years. So to learn more about the number one most active law firm representing VC backed companies going public, head over to coolee .com and also cooleego .com, coolees award winning free legal resource for entrepreneurs. As always I so appreciate all your support and stay tuned for an incredible episode coming this Wednesday.