Graeme Souness: for me that cat’s done nothing wrong (with Vittorio Angelone) | Part two

9:41Graeme Souness:I think because that's the Gerard Owen cohort.

9:43Vittorio Angelone:But it has Fowler and David James. I think David James was in that treble winning team. That's a bit of a changing of the card. Yeah, yeah. Maybe he was like a last round of the... I love them calling it the treble.

9:54Graeme Souness:That was the shittest treble ever. What were those three? It was the League Cup, the FA Cup, and the UEFA Cup. Come on. It's the shitmunchest treble.

10:01Vittorio Angelone:Come on. It is a treble though. It's an absolute 2-1 of a treble.

10:05Graeme Souness:Do you think it's a treble if it's league title, Champions League, and then League Cup? because that's what Sunas won in his last Liverpool season as a player

10:14Vittorio Angelone:I'll call that a treble what do you want the third trophy it feels like a

10:20Graeme Souness:minor

10:21Vittorio Angelone:that's quibbling over something yeah but I think it's got to be the Champions League Champions League and league is you've got

10:26Graeme Souness:to yeah you have to win those didn't Pep always try and say that he won the quadruple with Man City because they won the community shield as well which is yeah shut up

10:35Vittorio Angelone:and anyone who includes the club world cup in any of their pebbles or jubbles can fuck off.

10:41Graeme Souness:Although would you have the badge on the kit like Chelsea have? No. They won the tournament.

10:46Vittorio Angelone:I'd scrap the whole tournament. Yeah, get rid.

10:50Graeme Souness:Anyway, despite bringing through these promising youngsters, Liverpool struggled to keep the pace with United, Leeds. This is the start of the Fergie era. And it becomes a very stressful job for Graham. This is his club that he identifies with. There's unique pressures to being Liverpool manager anyway, particularly when you're trying to preserve this era of success and it's all crumbling. Has he got the palm back at this point? No, this is when I think the hair starts to straighten. The times change and he stops perming. The pictures I've seen, but he's got the moustache. It wasn't just as soon as he got back to Liverpool it was like the palm's back out again.

11:25Graeme Souness:Yeah, we're back in business. He ends up needing heart surgery though. The stress gets so big and he has a triple heart by heart.

11:35Vittorio Angelone:Do you think this starts Like a curse On Liverpool managers Because Jared Hulia Had heart surgery Didn't he Was he the next manager After Sunez No Roy Evans Who the fuck Yeah Roy Evans And You know Roy Evans Was there not a brief moment

11:50Graeme Souness:Yeah Roy Evans Did co-manager With Hulia Didn't he We did the sequel To this episode The Spice Boys Oh wow And I'm pretty sure There's a Roy Evans He's only ever had Two managerial jobs And both were as co-managers Kill him as well Embarrassing pathetic Yeah that's He's Nick Clegg. That's being cut, isn't it? He's absolutely Nick Clegg. Player manager, very cool. Co-manager. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

12:12Vittorio Angelone:Because you're getting double paycheck, player manager.

12:14Graeme Souness:And co-you're getting half. Yeah. Anyway, he ends up having this triple heartbite pass. It's very scary. He has to sort of step back. There's a caretaker in place. And meanwhile, Liverpool go on this run in the FA Cup, 1992. While he's away? Yeah, while he's not managing them. You know, he assembled the squad. Season plan. they get to the semi-finals against Portsmouth and the game goes to a replay and Liverpool win it on penalties meanwhile Graham has just recovered from his heart surgery he's convalescing is that the word? convalescing he's convalescing from his heart surgery and he's you know he's pretty happy about the state of affairs he thought he was going to die and he's struggling at work and suddenly he's in the FA Cup final and he's his heart is recovering and he gives an interview to the Sun celebrating these two two things and this this was this was given in advance but because the match finishes late due to the penalty shootout the sun have to hold it for an extra day which means they published the interview with liverpool manager graham soonest on april 15th the two-year anniversary of the hillsborough disaster what are

13:19Vittorio Angelone:you doing fucking idiot two years two years yeah so recent i mean i would actually say that the

13:25Graeme Souness:the sun um like the sun's role is like the villain in or one of the villains in the hillsborough story that actually builds over time even more yeah because as they're seeking justice there's

13:35Vittorio Angelone:yeah but even that even back then even still it's just such a stupid thing yeah and actually

13:40Graeme Souness:he himself had told his players you can't speak to the sun so it's a bit fucking rich yeah i suspect some money changed hands for that interview yeah but also it's particularly bad it's like him kissing his girlfriend and there's like the players celebrating and the liverpool fans well he wasn't He wasn't even on the bench for those games. He was... No, you know. He watched it from his sausage. Those were all bad boys. He'd go to the whole squad. If Phil Thompson hadn't gone... His reserve team manager was probably...

14:05Vittorio Angelone:He blooded a whole squad of the prettiest boys he could find. Yeah, exactly. Those Spice Boys. He's the prettiest man. He's got the sexiest young boys. And made a beautiful team of them. He sacked their boss because he was too rough with the beautiful boys. I'm looking after my beautiful boys.

14:21Graeme Souness:Leave them alone. My heart breaks for the beautiful boys. maybe that's what the sun had on him because they did used to out people they were like we will tell everyone what they already know that you're gay or you can give us an interview on the Hillsborough anniversary anyway the Liverpool fans are furious for myriad reasons and they're basically saying we want him sacked even though they're in the FA Cup final he actually later admits he probably should have gone instead he apologises and meanwhile Liverpool got this FA Cup final to play in where he's not going to be the manager he's got his caretaker but that's Ronnie Moran his assistant is the standard but Graham he wants to go and the doctor's like you can't fucking go you've had too much stress this is the last thing your heart needs but he goes and not only that he sits in the dugout with a doctor next to him which is a bit stealing Ronnie Moran's thunder I think yeah yeah so he's just sat there not doing anything he just wants to yeah but I bet he's muttering yeah I can't believe he's doing nothing is he John Terry full kit at the Champions League fight yeah and he's a bit you know Ronaldo when he got subbed off for Portugal he's standing up directing he's definitely muttering like oh you need to move Phil Bab out of left back and Phil Bab was there get Robbie Fowler on get the young boys on anyway Graham's presence isn't too much of a distraction and they win it FA Cup which I guess he can claim as his honour you counting that?

15:47Graeme Souness:yeah if you're in the dog

15:49Vittorio Angelone:I think you can take it

15:50Graeme Souness:Roy Keane doesn't count his Champions League win with United in 99 because he was suspended for the final. He's like, I don't count that. But surely if you play most of the games through the... Yeah, he was mad at the match in the semis. I bet he still has the medal. Kind of respect it. Anyway, although Graeme's sort of won the FA Cup, it is the high watermark of his reign because the following season they finish sixth, which is the first time in 18 seasons Liverpool have been outside the top two.

16:19Vittorio Angelone:That is a crazy run. I said the top two for 18 seasons.

16:24Graeme Souness:And excluding when they were banned from Europe, it's the first time they haven't qualified for Europe since 63, I believe. Wow. And back in those days. So he's crashed Liverpool, really? Yeah, I think he was the full guy. Yeah, I think he was brought in. Del a shit hand. He's David Moyes. Yeah. It was Phil Thompson who didn't do well enough with building up that reserve team. Exactly. They should have promoted Phil Thompson.

16:46Vittorio Angelone:They should have players coming through.

16:47Graeme Souness:Yeah. Apparently when Phil Thompson, like six years later, Phil Thompson gets rehired under Luleå in the 90s and he said I love Liverpool more than I hate Graham Souness so I'll come back he's really making it about himself

17:01Vittorio Angelone:also Souness wasn't there so why didn't you mention him at all yeah because Souness you're so sad

17:07Graeme Souness:yeah it wasn't your choice to leave him I guess he means I'm so bitter about how it went down last time Phil Thompson's like he grew up standing on the cop he's like proper proper scales anyway as for Souness by the following season it gets to December 1994 and they're 14th in the league and the following January they are knocked out in the FA Cup by Bristol City and the game's up he gives up the ghost and Graham Souness quits

17:32Vittorio Angelone:is that like he says at hindsight he should have left amongst like the Hillsborough scandal thing is that a better time to leave because then your leaving will always be associated with you interviewing with the Sun rather than just like yeah I also separately fucked it I think maybe maybe morally he should have left after the Sun interview but for this one like it's a bit like for his own reputation it's like probably just get out and be like oh yeah it didn't go well yeah if he'd resigned

17:58Graeme Souness:at the time of the Sun thing would it have helped it would have been it would have made it yeah the defining it would have been like a scandal you could probably you could then yeah you can sort of take it as like yeah I've really learned from this I've stepped away it's sort of like an honourable and everyone would always say he could have done really well yeah they won the FAQ yeah it would have been unknown

18:15Vittorio Angelone:yeah yeah yeah true

18:15Graeme Souness:I mean what he should have done is not give the interview to the Sun yeah And not being shit. Don't get knocked out by Bristol City. I've sold Peter Beards and Peter Everton, which he did do. So after leaving Liverpool, he spends a year out of work. And his reputation at this point, he's not done well at Liverpool. You're sort of wondering, is his managerial career going to fizzle out a little bit? But then an intriguing offer drops into his lap from Galatasaray. You know, Galatasaray is one of the most passionate, most hot-headed clubs. in world football, really. So them and Graeme Cunas is a bit of a match made in heaven.

18:55Graeme Souness:Is the Turkish league also closer to... You know what I mean? Has the gap got bigger or smaller since then? I kind of feel like Galatasaray were big. Yeah, I think they were big. Basically, everything was more widely spread.

19:08Vittorio Angelone:Yeah, I think Turkish clubs have been on sort of gradual decline because Galatasaray, like even 10 years ago, were like... Can they win the UEFA Cup or something? Yeah, and you know, drug bull went there didn't he yeah they did yeah they still get quite a few sort of retirees

19:26Graeme Souness:um and when he takes over they they had a decent squad then as well so they had hakan suko uh two guy who later ends up at blackburn and then he also signs dean saunders saunders and a young brad friedel with hair with a full head of hair wow what the heck he doesn't look that young yeah i know so yeah yeah he's just got one of those faces yeah still it's already it's already thinning by that point who's the uh turkish gent on the right i don't know who that is

19:54Vittorio Angelone:that's like the photo on the side of the barbers yeah yeah sort of coming back the glory days of the american goalkeeper where have they gone what happened yeah tim hard brad friddle yeah brad

20:05Graeme Souness:what happened um anyway there's a there's a few culture shocks for graham when he rocks up in turkey so he later recalls in in his book this one incident where the players went into the games room put some pillows and cushions at one end got their guns out and created a shooting gallery 30 30 meters long and fired live rounds it so for their saturday night entertainment even in Istanbul I had to discipline them so sick even in Istanbul yeah yeah that's fucking it's just mental like the players are just bringing guns into training that is my perception of Galatasaray yeah

20:41Vittorio Angelone:just guns they always have guns in their socks yeah

20:45Graeme Souness:on the pitch though it's a bit of a disappointing league season they finish fourth which for Galatasaray that's pretty shit yeah they should be

20:52Vittorio Angelone:walking that

20:52Graeme Souness:but Graham's spell in Turkey is best remembered for one very famous incident so it's the Turkish Cup final and Galatasaray up against their hated Istanbul rivals Fenerbahce and the final there is played over two legs and Galatasaray win the first leg 1-0 at home but of course for the second leg they have to go into the bare pit of the Fenerbahce stadium and Fenerbahce claw it back, they win 1-0 which sends the game to extra time it's on a knife edge and then in the 116th minute who pops up but dean saunders i was really expecting graham soon as that yeah yeah yeah is that man again aggie moffat dean saunders pops up crashes home a winner and gallus asserai and their fans are delirious in the away in the away and one corner one corner of the stadium the rest of the stadium filled with felibache standards incandescent with rage and the final whistle goes and there's jubilation on the bench and from somewhere Graham Sealy manages to get hold of a huge red and gold Galatasaray flag and he charges onto the pitch and plants it in the centre circle.

22:10Graeme Souness:I've got a video of it here.

22:12Vittorio Angelone:It's just so crazy.

22:18Graeme Souness:Such a big flag.

22:26Vittorio Angelone:immediately immediately immediately is that him running off I think as soon as he does it in the Turkish league this is actual risk of death yeah that is crazy

22:38Graeme Souness:he knows exactly what he's coming from so he legs it instantly to the tunnel as he's running into the tunnel and the police have to make a protective shield with him because the fans are just like lobbying anything that they can find at him and he so he heads down the tunnel gets into a scrap with a Fenerbahce fan who's somehow made his way into the tunnel as well but the Galatasaray fans love it apparently part of the reason why it was so like evocative for them was because it reminded them of this story from from Turkish folklore so during the Ottoman siege of Constantinople in 1453 which I'm sure you're familiar with a guy called Ullabatli Hassan was killed killed as he netted a winner against Fedobache he planted this Ottoman flag on some fort in Constantinople and so doing this planting this flag at the Fedobache Stadium earned Graham the nickname Ullabatli Sunez

23:45Vittorio Angelone:that's so sick little known fact about that story he planted the ottoman flag just in front of the sofa flag um that's a little furniture joke for you there we go oh hey take that with you keep it

23:59Graeme Souness:so any planting of a flag is is a reminder i'd say that's pretty yeah i think it's it'll be like i don't know maybe it's the turkish equivalent of like um who is it that takes the stone out of the the sword out of the stone yeah maybe it's that sort of king arthur yeah excalibur excalibur yeah yeah it's the turkish equivalent of that maybe i don't actually know to be honest but i think they've reacted yeah i like the nickname yeah what is it all about um anyway after that graham doesn't emerge for the trophy lift which is probably wise it was a pretty timid trophy lift by all accounts apparently the Galatasaray players were surrounded by a ring of riot police

24:49Vittorio Angelone:you're crazy it's a two leg final maybe their national stadium isn't as good as either Fenerbahce's or Galatasaray's but it's like it's so like that's risky is this why we have mutual finals yeah I like that they all

25:02Graeme Souness:you know normally if the other team wins all the fans will just fuck off and let them lift the trophy to the stadium but they're all there they're just there

25:09Vittorio Angelone:just like lovely stuff yeah the guy was at the euro final in the italy end obviously like it was empty by the

25:16Graeme Souness:time i left it was crazy i was there i left yeah and it started to rain as we left yeah and we were delighted yeah you were singing it's coming rome or whatever it's coming to rome yeah yeah it's a good one it's good yeah it's just a little oh just a little didn't england women beat the italian women in the recent was that was euros final as well wasn't it yes and loads of people being like that's revenge I was like is it yeah if there's ever a country

25:43Vittorio Angelone:that doesn't care about women's football it's Italy yeah

25:49Graeme Souness:so Ulobato Sunez Ulobato Sunez doesn't emerge for the trophy lift but he does head up to meet the directors and you know he's obviously done this pretty provocative act and he's sort of wondering like how is it gonna how are they gonna react are they gonna be like Graham you fucking idiot what have you done like this is dangerous in fact he says I've never been hugged and kissed by so many men in such a short period of time. Don't believe it.

26:11Vittorio Angelone:Don't believe it. Wilson's chariot sauna. Not since he signed all those young boys.

26:20Graeme Souness:Yeah, the bar was high for him for that, really. But that's what he says. He was loving it.

26:29Vittorio Angelone:He's in his element.

26:32Graeme Souness:Ripped his shirt off and he's just... In the back.

26:40Graeme Souness:yeah it still doesn't stop them getting rid of him at the end of the season oh really yeah he just does just does one year there so what he comes wins a cup comes wins a cup sucks off all the directors they've got they've got what they wanted from him

26:56Graeme Souness:apparently he still gets death threats from Fenerbahce fans today really which I find hard to believe I don't know what is Fenerbahce yeah letters to the Sky Sports office yeah yeah after this incident one Fenerbahce fan hid in the Galatasaray stadium and waited until cover of darkness and then got revenge by planting a Fenerbahce flag in the centre circle there he was armed with a kebab knife very well he did it Turkey is such a stereotype and it's not just a knife what is it I mean kebab knives are like they're like floppy almost they're like slightly curved like a lolly stick yeah that's the one yeah sorry sorry and the kebab knife so they're like with the kebab plants a fenevace flag in the galaxy i strongly suspect that the english tab inserted the word kebab into that story and it was just a knife yeah yeah yeah yeah i'll take it i like it so what does he get anyone or he's just he's just rocking around with his flag no he's i think it was just for defense there's something quite pathetic about being so triggered by flat it for me it's a bit queen's portrait in the dressing room you know i am

28:05Vittorio Angelone:from belfast so people being triggered by yeah my whole childhood yeah yeah um so i get it we said about lee griffiths in the last part he once i think at an old firm tied like a celtic scarf around the rangers like like crossbar after a game and i think there was a celtic fan definitely broke into Ibrox a little while ago and planted a flag or did something recently in the middle of the pit. So it was like a few years ago. Kebab knife? No kebab knife. Kebab knife. Electric or otherwise. Just a fucking teapot.

28:41Graeme Souness:Bad Mars bar. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, Graeme Sounez goes from one bear pit to the other and he joined Southampton in 1995. Wow. And his reign there, again, not massively successful but defined by one infamous moment. So Graham is sat in his office one day when the phone rings and he picks it up and the caller introduces himself as Mr. George Weir, the AC Milan and Liberia star who's just won the Ballon d 'Or. And Graham doesn't bat an eyelid at this. He probably expects George is just called up to compliment him on his Butlin's Beauty Contest win. And George Weir has a recommendation for Graham.

29:26Graeme Souness:he suggests that he take a chance on his cousin a player called Ali Dia

29:32Vittorio Angelone:this is so ten putt it's crazy my cousin's so good

29:37Graeme Souness:yeah surely by the 90s it didn't work like that yeah this is sort of the last time something like that Premier League football yeah anyway Graham's chatting to who he thinks is George Weir and George tells him that Ali's an excellent striker he played alongside him at PSG Ali Deer had scored five goals in 13 appearances for Senegal. He's, you know, a real up-and-coming prospect. The reality was slightly different. Ali was actually on a short-term deal at non-league Blythe Spartans. And this weren't George Weir on the phone. It was most likely, it never really got to the bottom of it, most likely it was either Ali Deer's agent or friend or just Ali Deer himself.

30:22Graeme Souness:Yeah, not sure he has an agent.

30:23Vittorio Angelone:Yeah, not sure you have an agent if you play for Blythe.

30:27Graeme Souness:If you do, get a new one. Yeah, yeah. Graham, though, falls for it, hook, line and sinker, and invites Ali Deer down for a one-month trial at Southampton. So apparently, Tony Poulis and Harry Redknapp had both received the same call from George Weir, offering Ali Deer up, but they'd both, you know, instantly just been like, who the hell is this?

30:52Vittorio Angelone:I mean, how are you being outsmarted by Tony Poulis?

30:56Graeme Souness:at least get someone to go and watch him play yeah sign him yeah check whether he plays for the teams that he's saved yeah mad yeah graham's graham's quite uh quite the gullible character it seems and ali comes down he does one training session with the southampton first team when apparently the players joke that he's a competition winner he's so shit um but they've lined up this reserve game against Arsenal and they're planning to throw Ali Dia into that see how he does but it ends up being called off because of a waterlogged pitch and so instead having never seen him play a match Sounez decides to throw Ali Dia onto the bench for a Premier League game against Leeds and after 32 minutes Matt Letizia goes down injured and Sounez turns his bench it's a vaccine yeah

31:50Graeme Souness:get down injured it makes you think

31:56Vittorio Angelone:players didn't used to go down injured after 32 minutes tell you that for free yeah

32:02Graeme Souness:it was a strange one really strange and Souders turns to his bench and he's scanning up and down who is there who you turn to and he sees this Ali Deer you know he's banged in five goals for Senegal George Wears played alongside him and he signals for Deer to warm up and he throws him onto the pitch in the Premier League and it is an absolute disaster. It goes down as possibly the worst Premier League appearance of all time. Soon as later says that Ali looked like Bambi on ice and he subs him off again after an hour. Although that is basically the end of the game, isn't it? Another hour. Yeah, it was like 85 minutes.

32:43Graeme Souness:But the fact that you're still getting subbed off

32:44Vittorio Angelone:is crazy. You must be so bad. Five minutes left, you're like, he is going to score an own goal. You can just imagine all the other players

32:52Graeme Souness:are just like, yeah, get rid. Yeah. Because I always think if I was thrown into this scenario, would I be that obviously shit? I mean,

32:59Vittorio Angelone:I reckon I think in the prep. Yeah.

33:01Graeme Souness:Yeah. You guys are probably better at football than me. Do you think you could hide? Like it just be that sort of game. All right.

33:07Vittorio Angelone:I know Mike Berbatov. Yeah. Yeah.

33:11Graeme Souness:You did. You'd not make Berbatov. What was the game?

33:14Vittorio Angelone:Charity football match in Belfast. Their team included, uh, Ryan Giggs, Demetri Berbatov, Jermaine Pennant Jermaine Beckford Jason somebody used to play for Ireland McAteer yeah McAteer he high-fived me after not making Berbatov I did a lap of the pitch celebrating yeah

33:35Graeme Souness:I would do the same but then surely you'd I'm not trying to suck your cock here but surely then you'd back yourself in a Premier League game do you think it would be obvious no I mean I guess they were in their 40s

33:46Vittorio Angelone:yeah although Berbatov now is very similar to Berbatov when he played. Also, after I nutmegged him, he just switched it on and scored five. So it was a bit fucked. Also, I only noticed when I watched the footage back of me nutmegging him that I was the last defender. Like, I was, it was high risk. It was like, you're in a row. Yeah, it was high risk, high reward.

34:07Graeme Souness:You're a Rolls Royce of a defender. Cannavaro at the back. That was great. How did you get, were you just, what was the charity match?

34:17Vittorio Angelone:Comedians against footballers was like the thing. Oh, Okay. It feels like an unfair. What was the score? Can you not mix up the teams? It was vaguely close. I think line of the day goes to a comedian, Chris Kent from Cork, where learned from that day, former professional footballers are insane. They're so competitive, like still. And I think we scored first and it was like a debatable offside. And having watched the video back, not offside at all, but at the time we were like, that was probably offside. but we are comedians and they are footballers. So I reckon, let's give us a goal while we can get a goal.

34:57Vittorio Angelone:And Giggs and McAteer and a couple others, I come over to the linesman and I'm like, right, there's like, you know, there's given them a chance and then there's just like cheating. And then Chris Kent turns to the bench and goes, I had a Giggs to complain about cheating.

35:17Vittorio Angelone:that was great so sick fucking amazing yeah yeah just absolutely unbelievable

35:23Graeme Souness:it does seem like a bit of an unfair matchup comedians against professional yeah they probably should have

35:28Vittorio Angelone:mixed it in a little bit so we could have played with some fucking footballers soccer aid is so on I mean I think every podcast I do I talk myself out of getting anywhere near soccer aid but I would that is so on the bucket list so on the bucket list to just get involved with that also like they do charity games at Celtic Park all the time and that is very much on the bucket list as well but if you're listening

35:48Graeme Souness:whoever runs soccer just let me cross the unicef or steve bartlett are listening he's involved isn't he bartlett does he plays get involved get me alongside alessandro del piero oh and chunks

36:05Vittorio Angelone:although if they do it there is a thing where they occasionally like getting like an irish player or celeb and sort of put them in the england thing just to make up the numbers and i if worth it i swear to god if they offered me england i would not take it genuinely i would not do soccer if they were like it's england you can't be in rest of the world you have to play for england i'd be like you can keep it yeah keep it what if it was called like is it always england

36:30Graeme Souness:could it be UK and Ireland

36:32Vittorio Angelone:I don't think I would be I don't think I would be behind that I don't think I would be behind that I'd play for Team Catholic yeah

36:42Graeme Souness:at Celtic Park bring it in bring it in smash those Sikhs it's a knockout tournament yeah yeah where are we Ali did so Ali therefore seriously surely you could hide in a game I mean he must have been a decent player as well. Up front? I guess you're coming up from Matt Letizio who's like the whole fulcrum of the Southampton team.

37:06Vittorio Angelone:They keep trying to pass it to you.

37:07Graeme Souness:Yeah, exactly. Just give Ali the ball. But like he would, I mean, he was playing non-league football, but like he, you still got to be pretty handy to play non-league. You would think it wouldn't be that. So he's hauled off. I guess Greg has that moment. He must have been like a spit for Gamble, but if this works out, it'll be great. And then you have that moment of like, fuck. Yeah, brutal. Just calling up George Weir at this time. It's not getting through. What happens next then? So he actually turns up for training the following day. So is it. That's the audacity. But by Monday he's gone. Nobody hears of him again in the Southampton dressing room.

37:41Graeme Souness:He ends up joining non-league Gateshead instead which is probably more his level. I guess he could be like I played for Southampton. He's done it now. Yeah, yeah. Make it till you make it. While he's at Gateshead the whole fake George Weir cool story comes out in the press. and actually he sticks to his guns. So the Gateshead posts track him down and he says in an interview to them that he's recently scored for Senegal in a 3-1 World Cup qualifying win over Guinea. Nice. Which again, completely untrue. Don't track that. Don't track that.

38:12Vittorio Angelone:This guy is such a legend.

38:14Graeme Souness:Apparently Senegal would already be knocked out of the qualifiers at this point and he was nowhere near the squad.

38:21Vittorio Angelone:Questioning the journalistic integrity of the Gateshead post.

38:26Graeme Souness:as for graham soon as he leaves south hampton at the end of the season as she falls out with the owner of rupert lowe um who fun fact is now a reform yeah mp elon musk sport isn't it they probably agree on more stuff nowadays

38:39Vittorio Angelone:graham soon as and rupert lowe reform mp as soon as uh

38:46Graeme Souness:he's quite um soon as it's quite labour party isn't he oh is he's quite like new labour Oh, yeah.

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40:20Vittorio Angelone:Bad advice? You talking to me?

40:22Graeme Souness:Kayak. Got that right.

40:27Graeme Souness:Anyway, Graham, he thinks that Rupert Lowe is just a bit of a posh twat, really. He doesn't understand the game. You've hit the nail on it. Yeah, he once says, you tell me if there's anyone else in football by the neighbor Rupert.

40:40Vittorio Angelone:All right, Graham.

40:44Graeme Souness:yeah to be fair to Rupert he probably wasn't too impressed by Graham Suda's signing players off prank calls yeah who else did he

40:54Vittorio Angelone:sound huge ass and starting at left back Seymour Buz Ivana score a lot Levin Golsky actually turns up

41:09Graeme Souness:yeah I think it was what you'd regard as mutual consent when Graham moves on from Southampton. And after that he does a short spell at Torino in Italy and then a season and a half with Benfica where he fools out with the owner again. Graham says that the owner lies when he looks in your eyes. Be careful that man is dangerous.

41:31Vittorio Angelone:Man, why is it so dramatic? It's also like Netflix drama. It's been Jilted Lover I thought. It's dangerous.

41:38Graeme Souness:Look into his eyes.

41:41Vittorio Angelone:too many snakes these days just me and the kids from now on

41:45Graeme Souness:it actually turns out this time that Graham is onto something because that owner is later jailed for money laundering and embezzlement so he'd been he'd been stealing money from transfers just for himself skimming it off the top I think he actually signed Dean Saunders again Dean Saunders paid for a new villa for this owner he brings Dean everywhere with him doesn't he yeah he signs him

42:05Vittorio Angelone:a few times who was like that Red Nav had players Nico Granshaw was yeah Deadline day wasn't that thing of like Bayern signed Eric Dyer just to be mates with Harry Kane

42:18Graeme Souness:Dennis Rodman had a guy like that as well so funny after that Graham heads on to Blackburn where he's reunited with Tugay, the Turkish midfielder he managed at Galatasaray, apparently Tugay smoked like a chimney for his whole career this is the story at halftime of a Blackburn game when I think they're losing at halftime and Graham comes in a bit of a strop and the dressing room just stinks of smoke. It's like, where the hell is Two Guy? And they just see this swirl of smoke coming up from the toilet cubicle. Which kicks over the door. This is far too recent for him to be smoking in the toilet.

42:58Graeme Souness:It's like 2000s. Also, what's the point of being in the cubicle? You might as well be smoking.

43:03Vittorio Angelone:We're in the Premier League era. You can, this is mad.

43:06Graeme Souness:He was like sat up on the seat. um yeah also during this time graham develops a slightly weird penchant for taking meetings with players with his cock old greg wallace yeah the harvey weinstein boy yeah um so jason macketeer your your your man my high five buddy um goes into graham's office i think he'd been he sort of dropped out of the team and he goes into graham's office to ask for a transfer and soon is in there with just a tiny towel wrapped around his waist and as jason takes a seat graham puts his feet up on the desk and macketeer has to do this whole meeting just facing graham's cock and balls which he says it was like looking at a grandfather clock wow is that a compliment

43:54Vittorio Angelone:long balls i think it's long balls is that what it is i was trying to work out the grandfather clock has like a long the swinging thing yeah it could be the balls i thought that meant saggy

44:04Graeme Souness:old man balls.

44:05Vittorio Angelone:I'll ask Jason next time I see him. Yeah. Whether he meant cock or balls. Yeah. How saggy are

44:10Graeme Souness:Graham Sooner balls? Why was he naked? Uh, yeah. Is that a power player? Is it a... Yeah. I mean, I think he's still just like... Yeah. Yeah, maybe. This is coming back to your theory. He's gay. He's gay. He's just... He's just testing the water. You want to be back in the first team, do you? Another Blackburn player said that Graham once came Came into the canteen for lunch, wearing only a towel around his waist and then smart black dress shoes. Creepiest outfit ever. That's really bad. Creepiest outfit ever. Shoes and socks and then nothing else. Yeah. He said after that, we knew our manager was a vain man, but this was taking it to the extreme.

44:51Graeme Souness:Is that the extremes of vanity?

44:54Vittorio Angelone:To wear a towel and dress shoes? Yeah. Broke.

44:57Graeme Souness:It's a bit, is it, is it a bit pampas grass? Yeah. You've got your dress shoes on. How obvious do I have to be, lads? anyway he also doesn't do his popularity the players too many favours when he nearly breaks their striker Dwight York's leg in training so again like you're the manager he just like flies in two footed on Dwight York leaves him with a gash so deep you can see the bone like what the fuck York like screams at him in the canteen doesn't he yeah they almost get in a fight quite rightly people are always like why didn't it work out for Dwight York and Andy Cole at Blackbird. Man, you're too footed me in training.

45:41Graeme Souness:Yeah, he does alright at Blackbird, I think, but it doesn't They were trying to recreate the United Magic. Oh, you mean Zunet? Yeah. Yeah, I think he has some cup runs, doesn't he? Yeah. He's quite a good cup manager. Yeah. Around this time, he also has quite a funny run-in with Roman Abramovich, who at this point was sort of wanting to get into the Premier League. He hadn't bought Chelsea yet, and he was coming to a game at Old Trafford and Graham Cedars was going to it as well with this agent who's a friend of his and the agent is like oh Graham is okay if we uh we go and pick up my friend uh as a Russian friend of mine is coming to watch the game we collect him from the airport so Graham's like sure drives there drives his minivan over and collects Roman Abramovich from the airport Roman gets into the front seat with Graham and Graham's driving them to the game and he keeps trying to make small talk with a brownish just you know asking about football and roman's just like it's just like just leave me alone like fuck it's like trying to talk to me why are you talking why are you talking and it's yeah turns out he's uh he's mistaken graham for the chauffeur so funny there is a

46:47Vittorio Angelone:chauffeur like there's something chauffe-free about graham's you know it's like there's something about him just like definitely in his later act that yeah quite like straight

46:57Graeme Souness:stony faced yeah yeah yeah no emotion just very well get the job done

47:00Vittorio Angelone:does the job very discreet you know you can have private conversations the Uber setting of conversation

47:06Graeme Souness:level low yeah that's what Brambridge wanted is that a setting on Uber on the expensive Uber you can choose the conversation level well you have to pay extra for them to shut the well I think you get a nice car you get more leg room yes the exact one if you pay for the real premium can you get Graham Souders to come and pick you up gotta be that's gotta be

47:27Vittorio Angelone:an option.

47:27Graeme Souness:I can imagine Graham Sooners is quite dented. Ubo Ulobalti. I imagine Graham Sooners is quite dented by someone not recognizing him thinking he is. Yeah, yeah. And to be fair, he is hanging out with the creme de la creme of society. He's best mates with Dale Winton in this book. Yo. Oh, yeah. He's host of Supermarket Sweep. Fellow Permatan. There they are together. Best mates with Dale Winton. Right. Just stick that in the four column of signs he might be getting.

47:55Vittorio Angelone:I am so spot on with this. he was best mates

47:57Graeme Souness:with the campus man on tape okay yeah there's quite a funny story of how they met apparently they became friends because Dale told Sooners his wife Karen you're gorgeous and then turned to Graham and added and so are you I'm telling you there's something to do listen to me they're genuine mates aren't they yeah they were so Graham was best man at a fake wedding that Dale had on BBC3. Yeah, that's a sentence that makes sense. It's him and Nell McAndrew or something. I don't know what the context was. Yeah. Anyway, he leaves Blackburn. I think it was like mild success. Some cup runs. And nonetheless, Newcastle fans are collectively groaning when he's appointed manager because they just have Bobby Robson.

48:51Yeah.

48:52Graeme Souness:A generational. Yeah. You love Bobby Robson. Then Graham comes in. And it's like he's going to be the disciplinarian for these spoiled kids. And he certainly does bring a different vibe to the training ground to Sir Bobby. At the first player's gym session, they're all working out. And Graham, who's 51 by this point, rips his top off and hits the chest press. They're all quite impressed. So Kieran Dyer says in his book, I was in awe. He was doing the chest press and it was like, boom. I was thinking, my God, this guy.

49:20Vittorio Angelone:Kieran Dyer also. Yeah, stick him on the fucking list. Also great, get him on the list.

49:25Graeme Souness:so once you start looking for us yeah but while Kieran is salivating over Graham's sculpted pecs not all the players are fans so Craig Bellamy from day one they hadn't got on he played him out of position and during one game he subs Bellamy off and Craig's fucked off about this and as he's walking off he just mutters fucking prick which Graham does not hear but it's caught on camera and you don't have to be a lip reader to see that he's slagging him off. And so Graham leaves it until the following Tuesday when he calls a team meeting and sits them all down and he starts the meeting by listing all the clubs he's played for, all the trophies he's won, which is a bit pathetic.

50:09Vittorio Angelone:This is real David Brown stuff.

50:10Graeme Souness:I've got to remove one item of clothing for every trophy I've won. Turkish cup.

50:14Vittorio Angelone:Until he's just in a tile and dresses. Coppa Italia.

50:19Graeme Souness:And then apparently he then turns to Bellamy having listed all these clubs and says, and then someone like you calls me a fucking prick. I'll fucking knock you out.

50:32Vittorio Angelone:Unreal.

50:33Graeme Souness:And Craig Bellamy continues in his book. He says, he was absolutely raging. He came over to where I was sitting and tried to grab me. I pushed his hand away and he lost his balance slightly and stumbled. That made a couple of the other boys laugh, which made Souness even more furious than he was anyway. You can really picture that. That's, again, for a vain man, that's tough. at which point soon as apparently like sort of gathers himself and then goes in the gym me and you now which is he's demanding a fight which we saw do you think it's a fight

51:01Vittorio Angelone:or do you think he wants like chest press battle a wrestle I honestly think they're just gonna like who can lift more weights it's just so to prove that I yeah

51:10Graeme Souness:get the baby oil out yeah apparently craig bellamy refuses it's kind of laughing just like what and to be fair you're not backing yourself at the chest press against no against him and soon as then storms out and gets rid of him he loans about Celtic not long after that

51:25Vittorio Angelone:Craig Bellamy one of the most like Rangers-y players to ever play for Celtic in my mind he's got absolute Rangers he's real bulldog yeah I do see that something so British and aggressive it just doesn't it never makes sense in my head that he was a Celtic player

51:39Graeme Souness:yeah he was great in Newcastle it's a real shame but anyway he's not the only one who Graham falls out with he falls out with half the squad he's constantly like squaring up to them rowing in training and as the chaos mounts the players begin to turn on each other wow so end of his first season it's been a shit season Newcastle are losing 3-0 at home to Villa and Lee Bowyer and Kieran Dyer they're both rivals for the same position on the right they're both on the pitch and Bowyer starts complaining that Dyer's not passing to him at which point Dyer says something back and the two come to blows we've got the video of it they suck each other off it is Kieran Dyer

52:22Vittorio Angelone:Oh, I know this clip. Oh, yeah.

52:25Graeme Souness:Oh, there's a fight going on here between two Newcastle players.

52:27Vittorio Angelone:And the Villa players break it up. Garth Byrne? Yeah. Pacemaker.

52:32Graeme Souness:What on earth is going on? I have never seen such a thing. Lee Bowyer and Kieran Dyer suddenly were at each other's throats. So funny. You know when the opposition is separating your own players that you've got. serious serious problem they both get sent off mad for punching each other yeah that's so funny apparently they both get this huge bollocking from Shearer from Souness and then Lee Bowyer gets charged by the police what with assault what

53:02Vittorio Angelone:on her head he threw the first punch he pleads guilty

53:06Graeme Souness:he gets a conviction that's mad has he got has he got a criminal record yeah I think Lee Bowyer already had a criminal record didn't he quite a nasty incident oh yeah but yeah another one yeah Yeah, apparently he was like, I had to take the rap for Kieran Dyer as well. I don't know what Kieran did in return, but it's not a match of a public record. Anyway, the Newcastle run just gets worse after that. They have a cup run, but they finish 14th in the league. It's the lowest in the Premier League era for Newcastle at the time. And morale's collapsing. The following season, they spend big. That's when they get Michael Owen.

53:40Graeme Souness:They spend 50 million in that window. Apparently when the deal is done for Michael Owen, Dean Saunders drives around to Graham Souness' house and wakes him at 1am by throwing stones at his window. So cute and gay. Yeah, I was going to say does Graham's wife catches them. He's like, I just wanted to say that Michael Owen's joining. He's just informing

54:00Vittorio Angelone:of a transfer news.

54:03Graeme Souness:Important club business. But yeah, no, Owen, it doesn't really work out famously. And by February, their 15th and the game is up once again and he is sacked by Newcastle. And that is the end of Graham Souness, the football manager. apparently flirted with the Scotland job after that and a return to Blackburn a return to Newcastle but nothing happens when you say flirted with a return to Newcastle that was purely his he was the one flirting I think Mike Ashley was post Kevin Keegan was sort of considering him yeah because he I think his reputation as manager is not that bad Blackburn he did quite well anyway why bother with all that stress when you can just sit on the Sky Sports sofa where he does, he becomes a mainstay as the grumpy bastard role.

54:50Graeme Souness:Yeah, yeah, yeah. The hardest man to please. And actually, he's even arguing with his colleagues sometimes. There's a clip here of him turning on host Dave Jones. Do you think Liverpool played well today? I thought they did. I thought they dominated the ball up until 18-yard box and Man United. And why are you looking like that? Are you not agreeing with me? I'm just wondering if they're agreeing with you. No, it was the way you looked.

55:12Vittorio Angelone:That's so embarrassing. I feel like the host is immune from that shit

55:16Graeme Souness:That's so embarrassing Don't ever fucking look at me like that What? Like, grow up The host is not in the game Neither of the other pundits, really Crazy

55:30Vittorio Angelone:So aggro

55:32Graeme Souness:He is capable Of showing a human Caring side Famously, when Kurt Zuma's Cat-kicking video surfaces Graham is invited to comment on it And delivers this line I've got zero sympathy for him I've got major problems with this Have I got time to talk about it? Just quickly yeah I've got major problems with it For me looking at that video That cat hadn't done anything wrong It was picked up And it was abuse for entertainment For me that cat's done nothing wrong It's actually like it failed to deploy an offside trap Looking at that video for me She'll never have been booked It is so good It is so funny.

56:13Graeme Souness:I guess when you're always doing the punditry talk, you just slip into the cliche. And if you look here, he's just like drawing a circle around it.

56:21Vittorio Angelone:He's in acres of space.

56:25Graeme Souness:Zoom has picked him up. Fair enough. And then in later years, I'm really glossing over a lot of punditry, but in later years, he really becomes known for his hounding of Paul Pogba. Fucking handsome. Which kind of becomes his undoing, I think. Because it's just like, there's a good clip, I haven't got it here, but where he's talking, they're talking about a game and he's like, I just want to highlight how well Marcus Rash has done. They're like, hang on, Paul Pogba just set up four goals. Are you going to mention him?

56:54Vittorio Angelone:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

56:55Graeme Souness:How did it start? Is there any, is there an origin story for it? Well, the transfer fee puts pressure on you, doesn't it? And his argument is always that.

57:02Vittorio Angelone:I think what it is, and this is sort of inside whatever, I've spoken to people who've interviewed Sures, and they're like, he hates the fact that he has to do all this shit. Because he was like a good football player. And in his mind, like if he'd been a footballer 15, 20 years later, he'd be sitting on a pile of money in Italy somewhere. Must be annoying. Like he is just furious that anytime he's interviewed, or like is a pundit, that he has to be a pundit. he's looking at somebody like Paul Pogba who is like to be fair like can be accused of phoning it in a lot of the time with such an obscene amount of talent and he's going to be able to retire to a mansion like could retire right now if he wanted to and soon as he's just there like fuck you

57:47Graeme Souness:and that's it 2023 he hangs up his mic and now he's doing sort of a little bit of charity stuff after dinner speaking yeah yeah I think he's doing some TV I think I was thinking he would be good on the Celebrity Traitors I think that will go so badly

58:03Vittorio Angelone:but it'd be quite watchable yeah but I also think he would make a lot of celebs really uncomfortable yeah he'd probably square off he has such a vibe it's a game mate at the round table why are you looking at me like that well because I what that's the game yeah what do you mean do you not agree with me no but that's what we're supposed to do here why do you

58:20Graeme Souness:me outside now what the fuck you do man yeah the thin skin ones who don't like you know when they're at the beginning they're just like well it could be you and they're like me yeah yeah that'd be him

58:29Vittorio Angelone:they should do like like there's celebrity traitors but then also like mad celebrity traitors you got him also earlier Craig Bellamy being like soon as he's mad right you did hit John Henry with a golf club so let's not fucking

58:40Graeme Souness:there are two Craig Bellamy's I think they should do celebrity traitors but just with cancelled celebs wow we had that one before cancelled island yeah sort of love island

58:50Vittorio Angelone:but traitors traitors is better

58:51Graeme Souness:traitors because they're all in their own ways

58:55Vittorio Angelone:who have you voted for and why well I've voted for him because I do think he's a pedophile I'm tired of that I mean Rolf Harris

59:04Graeme Souness:it's hard to call him 100 % faithful just something about you Rolf I'm just not believing you

59:15I have

59:15Graeme Souness:and have always been a nonce

59:21Vittorio Angelone:celebrity nonces what about the game three of you are nonces one of you will be banished

59:33Vittorio Angelone:and the challenges all involve kids and it's like I just didn't like the way you were acting around there I felt overly familiar

59:41Graeme Souness:just felt like you weren't really trying to rescue them from the water

59:44Vittorio Angelone:Graham you kept telling them about when you won beauty contests at Butlins and it just felt a bit off to me I didn't like it

59:52Graeme Souness:and I'm only saying it because you're so talented

59:54Vittorio Angelone:and I think he'd be great at being a nonce.

1:00:01Vittorio Angelone:But maybe it's a double bluff. Maybe you're pretending to be a nonce. Maybe you fucked that kid to make us think that you wouldn't have fucked that kid. What about that? What about that? There's layers! And Claudio's just there.

1:00:18Graeme Souness:The Nazis are laughing at you.

1:00:22Vittorio Angelone:And it's just pictures of kids on the wall and access through them.

1:00:30Vittorio Angelone:Faithful, you have to do better.

1:00:37Vittorio Angelone:Maybe someone's been recruited as a nut.

1:00:44You know the one

1:00:45Graeme Souness:where it's like you have to touch their face without any of them realising. One of these kids will get a shield.

1:00:52Vittorio Angelone:One of these kids will get a shield and they will be protected from noncing for one night. For the night.

1:01:00Graeme Souness:Under cover of darkness, the nonces will retreat to Epstein's tower where they will commit another crime.

1:01:11Vittorio Angelone:Oh, no, that's a good riff.

1:01:14Graeme Souness:That's a good riff. Got there in the end. Well, all right, we've slagged him off a lot. Good looking man, I would say, for Graham Sooner. Give him that. Vittorio, thanks a lot. Thank you for having me.

1:01:24Vittorio Angelone:Come and see you live. Buy tickets for the tour. Where are your audience? All over the place. Oh, yeah. UK and Ireland. I'll be coming near you, I promise. Doing a big short. Hammersmith, Apollo, Gemball.

1:01:35Graeme Souness:Yep. And all the others. Link in bio. Avatar Angeloni on Insta. All right. Thanks a lot, guys. Thank you. Cheers.

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