Michael Jordan: f*** them kids | Part two

0:00So after Maradona destroyed England with his hand of God and then that worldie in the infamous 1986 World Cup The England players after the game could like barely look at him. They were so angry. There was one England player who didn't mind cozying up to him though, Steve Hodge, who managed to persuade Diego to swap shirts with him in the tunnel. Steve then came into the dressing room wearing Maradona's shirt and all his England teammates were disgusted, especially because Steve Hodge is the one who hit the looped back pass that led to the hand of God. Although Steve had the last laugh because he sold Maradona's shirt four years ago, but seven million quid.

0:33Seven million. Yeah, in an auction. Wow, okay. Yeah. memorabilia is like very valuable. Look, most people don't have Maradona's Hand of God shirt, but if you own a piece of World Cup history, now is the time to cash it in because Bud's, the auction house, they're holding the largest World Cup memorabilia auction ever. They've got some good shit. They've got, actually, they've got Peter Shilton's shirt from the Hand of God. Oh, really? Nice. So if you want to get your free valuation, just Google Bud's, which is spelled B-U-D-D-S, World Cup. Just Google Bud's World Cup's first result. Amazon presents Jeff versus Taco Truck Salsa.

1:06Whether it's Verde, Roja, or the orange one. For Jeff, trying any salsa is like playing Russian roulette with a flamethrower. Luckily, Jeff saved with Amazon and stocked up on antacids, ginger tea, and milk. Habanero? More like habanere, yes. Save the everyday with Amazon. Zootopia 2 has come home to Disney+. Let's go! Get ready for a new case. We're gonna crack this case and prove we're the greatest partners of all time! New friends. You are... Gary the Snake. And your last name? The Snake. Dream Team. New habitats. Zootopia has a secret reptile population. You can watch the record-breaking phenomenon at home.

1:54You're clearly working at it. Zootopia 2. Now available on Disney+. Rated PG. Welcome back to our two-parter on the great man himself, Michael Jordan. Zach and George still here? Still there. We've just been shooting some hoops during the break. Measuring our son's cocks. Mourning your cat. All the hits. At the end of part one, Michael Jordan was an Olympic hero. He's NBA champion. But scandal was beginning to engulf him because his gambling problem was getting out of hand. He'd lost over a million dollars to some fella on a game of golf. and he'd just been caught writing a check to a cocaine dealer, which did not look good.

2:36So suddenly all these rumors are swirling that America's biggest star might be some sort of inveterate lowlife. So how is he going to recover? Well, on the check in the coke dealer's pocket, Michael Jordan is interviewed by the police and he tells the cops, don't worry about it. It was just a business loan. To a cocaine dealer. Which given the guy's business is selling cocaine. Who is his lawyer? That is just about the worst excuse you can give. Well, we're going into business together. I guess, but you reckon the guy's probably like, he deals coke, but he's also got other businesses. Yeah. Yeah.

3:09Import, export. Yeah. Don't worry, officer. I'm not guilty of purchasing drugs. I'm also guilty of supply. Investing in an operation. Well, actually, later, this whole thing goes to court, the coke dealer, and Michael Jordan has to testify under oath, where he admits it was actually money he owed him from a poker game. Right. Which I think would have been, just say that from the start. That's fine. I think he's worried about this gambling problem becoming public knowledge. Gambling's illegal in a lot of states, right? Yeah. And it's quite, organized crime and gambling are quite intertwined in terms of like loaning money and stuff.

3:41Yeah. And also, yeah, it's just, he's like so much of his income is based on his positive image, right? His brand. I have to say, writing a check was silly. Yeah. Jerry Springer got done. He wrote a check to a prostitute. Yeah, he did. He visited a brothel and then wrote a cheque, which... I mean, that was just how it was back then. You can't be... This cheque was, what, 57 grand? Yeah. I mean, Michael Jordan probably does carry 57 grand in cash. Almost certainly, but yeah. But, you know, still, if you don't have it on you at the time. And so obviously he testifies in court, says that it was a poker game.

4:16And this confirms long-held rumours about Mike. And stories about his gambling go public. look at a picture here of him playing cards on a flight with his Chicago Bulls teammates it does look great they're at a really good time perhaps though it does verge out of the sort of fun pastime territory so the paper has come up with a few examples of Mike's gambling so he apparently once lost $100 ,000 on a game of rock paper scissors that's real better than anything if you're getting to the point where you're betting 100 grand on that then you just go rock every time good old rock, nothing beats that

5:03another time he bet his teammates $900 that his luggage would come out first at the airport that's great but unbeknownst to them, he had paid the airport staff, he'd bribed them to put his luggage out first so that's not even scratching your gambling itch, that's just scratching you're making money yeah it's just stealing like that is stealing isn't it yeah how much is he making a second from air jordan sales more than that it's interesting it's just it shows the kick that he gets is from is from winning winning yeah yeah yeah yeah he's a he's a ruthless bastard and that all comes back to i think his dad and his brother yeah do you ever cheat in like monopoly or anything or i don't i really hate it when people do really yeah yeah me too I have subsequently found out that some people do cheat and what's your method you're just going stealing the money when my mum goes to the toilet you're nicking up properties stealing money from the bank or from other players I found out the other day like have you ever played that would be low have you ever played much golf no I used to play a bit of pitch and putt with my mate and he revealed to me recently that he used to cheat all the time like Donald Trump style he was like kick the ball to a better position like move mine apparently that's fair game moving yours that's a piss take I'm sure I'm sure Mike could be up to those kind of I reckon Michael Jordan tips the board up in Monopoly though doesn't he yeah yeah oh he just flips it yeah if he's losing yeah do you think he's sort of like gold finger just golf balls definitely cheats at golf down his trouser leg definitely cheats at golf yeah he cheats at getting your luggage more more Michael gambling stories he once spent 36 hours straight playing spades with Antoine Walker who played for the Boston Celtics apparently at one point they were$900 ,000 down what is spades?

6:56is it complex? because I find quite often the games he's playing like the luggage are just like chance he doesn't care it's not his spades like snap probably but you know you can see his gambling is getting pretty out of control luckily though Michael is able to justify his habit as he does in this interview do you have a gambling problem? no I enjoy it's a hobby if I had a problem I'd be starving I'd be hocking this watch my championship rings I would sell my house I would do this my wife would left me on she'd be starving my kids would be starving I do not have a problem I enjoy gambling I do not have a heroin problem I enjoy it I like shooting up it's a hobby two things I said on that video one I sort of agree with him he can afford it it's an expensive hobby so what yeah that is basically it it's like I'm rich so it's alright but that's kind of fair enough isn't it it's just like do your thing secondly he looks fucking sick he does because he's got his he's got those those kind of wayfairy sunglasses that really suit him and then he's got the baggy suit yeah yeah that's his classic look he's also just he's so cool he's so composed always in his yeah because that's a lot of elite sports people again are not that great talkers like Messi yeah to pick one bad boys bad boys whereas Michael Jordan is he's good in interviews, isn't he?

8:16I guess that's why Nike made him. He's a star, yeah. Yeah, no, I kind of agree. But then I guess that's the thing, isn't it? Like he can't afford it until he can't. Yeah, but he's always fine, isn't he? He's so rich. The baggy suit, what happened to them? They're cool. Bring them back. I feel like they'll, yeah, they'll be coming back. Is he getting them made in like a special shot, I guess, of Taylor? Yes, he is. Again, he comes back, he's rich. there's something quite like WWE about them yeah it's just because he's a big guy it works for him I think it's a good look it works for basketball players but not for wrestlers no I think it works because he's gone crazy baggy with it whereas wrestlers like Dwayne LaRoc Johnson would just go like too tight yeah he looks like he's in a porn film yeah sure that's where my mind's gone so he's basically being like I'm doing nothing wrong He's basically saying that gambling is my hobby.

9:12I'm rich. I can afford it. It's not a problem. It's not like, it's not destroying my family or my life. So give me a break, basically. But despite that argument, the NBA do decide to launch an investigation into his gambling. So, you know, you'd think, considering this investigation is open, Michael would probably be on his best behavior going into the 1993 playoffs. You know, the Bulls are attempting to win their third championship in a row. the three-peat historic. But instead, the night before the Eastern Conference finals, Michael was spotted gambling in Atlantic City until the early hours of the morning.

9:50Kind of sounds depressing then, doesn't it? Have you been to Atlantic City? No, it is depressing. It's just a shit Vegas. I mean, I would argue Vegas is fucking shit as well, but Atlantic City is that, but tired. More to warn and solid. Genting's Casino in the UK, is it that sort of level? Not quite that level. It's a bit more, you know, it's got a Bobby Flay steakhouse, but like it's depressing. Yeah, it's not really where you want to see your star player in the early hours for a massive game. But the Bulls win it regardless, setting up a third straight NBA final, this time against the Phoenix Suns.

10:25But then on the eve of the series, there's another scandal to hit MJ. So Richard Esquinas, remember he's the golf buddy, the one that Mike lost$1.2 million to on a game of golf. he reappears he pops up with a self-published book called Michael and Me Our Gambling Addiction dot dot dot My Cry for Help which that is a damning title it is a damning title I do kind of feel like he's shoehorned Michael into that this is My Cry for Help I mean he probably sold more books that way a lot more yeah self-published self-published in the 90s that's just a bloke handing out like a staple printouts yeah yeah yeah business secrets of the pharaohs um yeah so this this book it goes into these high stakes golf bets that he'd made with jordan and reveals that jordan never paid him that 1.2 million pound debt well in a way then what's the problem yeah i don't have a gambling problem i never pay the people i don't have money what money um yeah so i don't know how much this book is him trying to to sort of address his demons or just to my cry for help give me the money about michael jordan um anyway jordan he doesn't seem too bothered by this and the bulls of course win the finals they complete their first three pete historic so he's sort of achieved everything in basketball at this point yeah um so he's on top of the world but actually that is when things in his life turn really ugly.

12:00So he's got this gambling investigation going on. There's all these rumors about his personal life. And amid all of that, his dad is murdered. Jesus. Horrendous. So they find his dad's body in a swamp, um, in, a body of water.

12:23Sid is swimming track. I don't know if you guys are keeping count, but I think that makes it through. Yeah. Broken hand. Must a cat. Yeah. So the mad thing about this is that no one had reported him missing. Right. Which, you know, you think someone you know or your family would have. And this leads to a conspiracy theory that it's related to Michael's gambling debts in some way. So there's some suggestions that maybe organized crime did it as a sort of punishment for Michael. Right. Actually, those are just conspiracy theories. They're bollocks. It was actually a carjacking gone wrong. And James was shot in the chest by two teenagers who were, I've got to say, they were extremely incompetent car thieves.

13:01Right. Because after the murder, they immediately used James's car phone to ring their relatives, which is dumb. I was going to tell you the crime a bit. They then made a two-minute phone call to a sex hotline. Well, you know what it's like. There's nothing like, you know, a bit of homicide and car jacking. Gets you in the mood, doesn't it? Get you horned up. I guess teenage boys. Any situation, any excuse. Are those still a thing, sex hotlines? I don't know I imagine it's all it's all online these days yeah chat rooms yeah I actually remember ringing one as a teenage I was I was sort of early to mid pubescent and the woman immediately goes how old are you I was like oh fuck put the phone down you would have got charged for that four quid charged to my parents nice sorry Jack of the producers just googled sex hotline number which has just come up with cheap phone sex oh yeah I reckon there's still the market for that i don't think the internet i guess it's webcams isn't it yeah it'll be ai now yeah that's genius anyway it's back of the magazine phone number stuff right smart lines which um so it did just quickly did your parents see the bill and know exactly what it was or that's a good question i don't remember so i think it would have shown up as something discreet right okay you know just like world processing yeah sure yeah four quid for like a minute but anyway these killers then go even stupider because a week later one of them records a rap video and in it he's wearing Michael Jordan's watch and NBA All-Star ring which they'd found in the car he'd given them to his dad so yeah it's pretty damn I've got a clip of it but there's no audio this was shown in court so I'll link to it this is the rap video yeah this is the rap video but you can't hear the rap unfortunately but you can see the guy doing it yeah so look here he is I think that's Jordan's watch he's wearing we can see right I can't see the ring but it's a shame oh he's wearing a ring yeah yeah I don't know what the lyrics are it's a pretty shit rap video although he's in like quite a plush hotel suite yeah which I guess if you sell personal effects of a rich man you murdered yeah you would say it doesn't look like a sort of he doesn't look like a gangland assassin no he looks like he's in Fresh Prince of Bel-Air yeah just a little teenage plonker yeah he is I think he's still in jail for the crime.

15:18Well, yeah. Yeah, good. Anyway, even despite all that evidence, rumors still swirl among people who sort of want to believe there's more to it than just straightforward carjacking. And then a few months later, Michael Jordan drops a bombshell. He announces he is quitting basketball to follow his dream of playing Major League Baseball. Right. It's very unexpected. Yeah, because he's at his peak. How old is he now? he's early 30s but still he's in his prime he's just one of the three he's clearly in his prime but a few things firstly he said that even prior to his dad's death he had made the decision that he was sick of the like fame and his board of basketball and he wanted to do this secondly he'd always dreamed of being a baseball player right that's what his dad wanted for him as well so maybe his death sort of spurred something on yeah it is still very weird I mean it's like yeah Messi or Ronaldo quitting in 2010 to do like UFC?

16:19Yeah, I don't know. It's odd. There's no real parallel. Harry Kane wants to try NFL when he's done. What does he say? He said, I don't know if he's, yeah, guess, yeah. I don't think he's going to be quarterback, is he? I'll kick it, surely. Yeah. Anyway, I don't think there's really another parallel. No. Yeah, that is bad. Anyway, meanwhile, the NBA investigation into his gambling is dropped, which... Yeah, you can see why there's conspiracy theories. A lot of people basically say, was his baseball season a secret suspension where the NBA were like, just go away for a bit and we'll bury this. Maybe.

16:57As for the baseball, it doesn't go great. So he wants to play Major League Baseball, but first he's got to play in the minor leagues or feeders because he's not at that level enough. He actually, looking at the stats, 300 batting average, that's not bad. It's not going to get him to Major League Baseball, but... Now at McDonald's, a McDouble is$2.50. So you can get your gym gains on. Or just get lunch. For only$2.50. Get more value on the under$3 menu. Limited time only. Prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher for delivery. Ba-da-ba-ba-ba. What if you could have the most reliable Wi-Fi at the same price for five years?

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18:09Now, a teenager who calls them vintage will offer that same small fortune back. Sell them easily on Depop. Just snap a few photos and we'll take care of the rest. Who knew your questionable music taste would be a money-making machine? Your style can make you cash. Start selling on Depop, where taste recognizes taste. Anyway, the press aren't so kind. So after his first preseason game, Sports Illustrated run an infamous cover, which shows him, I think he's being struck out, and it just says, bag it Michael yeah what's the caption under as well says Jordan and the White Sox are embarrassing baseball yeah harsh kind of White Sox with the team he was going to play for I think it was a bit harsh but I mean it wasn't there I mean he also he must have sold so many magazines by being on the cover of Sports Illustrated he's actually done more for his fame I think yeah by just like doing something unexpected and weird I can kind of see that baseball stars would be a bit like is it devaluing that sports just have like a bit of a gimmick is he playing with a load of sort of pimply teenagers I think so yeah apparently he was sort of acting like them he's like a real keynote in practice which you'd expect it's quite cute I think he's like I bet you can't how big's your car yeah did anyone make any million dollars any large gambling wins in 1993 like baseball or on Michael Jordan retiring to take up baseball good question it's not a conspiracy theory for the mix what do you think is actually going on?

19:41I think, yeah, it's like you say, I read a similar thing. Like his dad had always envisioned his son being a baseball player. His dad dies. Maybe there's a bit of grief and yeah. I think it's like this quest for glory and greatness. And like, if he, I mean, if he had done it, if he'd been the greatest basketball player and then gone on to have like a successful baseball career, it's difficult to then question whether he's the greatest sports person. I think I believe the secret suspension thing. Do you think? I think it has been debunked, doesn't it? You know what I mean? How can you really debunk that?

20:14Because it's like meant to be a conspiracy. But I kind of believe they might have been like, can you just go away for a year? And he was like, I'll do this. Yeah. Anyway, it doesn't quite work out for MJ on the baseball field. And in 1995, he starts quietly attending Chicago Bulls training sessions again. And then he announces his return to the NBA with a two-word press release. I'm back. That's fucking sick. Rate that. That's aura, as the kids say now. Yeah. You can imagine the city of Chicago goes crazy. One radio commentator quips that the city was in a state of jorgasm. Good. Yeah. It's a good line.

20:55And pretty much straight away, he's back to his best. That season, they get to the playoffs, ultimately lose to Shaquille O 'Neal's Orlando Magic. But it's pretty clear that Jordan is still a force to be reckoned with. It's also clear, though, that he's still got a problem with gambling and infidelity. So the MTV host, Lisa Kennedy, has a story about hanging out with Jordan that summer. She said, Michael and I were playing dice at a trendy bar in Manhattan. I was a virgin at the time. I was losing and he said, baby, if I win, you come to my hotel room. But if you win, you can have Nets tickets.

21:36That seems like a fair swap. Thankfully she won. Oh yeah. How'd you lose your virginity? I was playing dice with Michael Jordan. Yeah. It's quite grim that one actually. Yeah, a bit grubby. Does she tell it finding it funny or I don't know. She tells it. She tells the story. It's a good story. ended well so that's a bit of a grubby one but his antics are also rubbing off on other people on a new generation of stars so one night Jordan's in this nightclub in New York and in the same nightclub that evening is a fresh faced upstart by the name Tiger Woods and Tiger he's fresh on the scene at this point and he's bowled over by how easily Michael Jordan is chatting up women in this club.

22:29And eventually Tiger plucks up the courage to go up to Jordan and asks the question that bugs pimply teenage boys across the land. Mr. Jordan, sir, how do you talk to girls? And Jordan, I'm picturing Jordan taking one more puff of the cigar, blowing the smoke in Tiger's face. He was spluttering. And he says, go tell him you're Tiger Woods. In that booming Michael Jordan voice. It doesn't work if you're not Tiger Woods. Just leave me. Just FYI. Tried it. It just confuses people. Yeah. But I like to think that that is sort of the origin story of Tiger Woods. Yeah. The rest is history. Look at him now.

23:17Yeah. Yeah. So that was, he's sort of passing the baton on to the next generation. but then all right so just sorry to sound like an absolute incel but what do i do if i'm tiger woods practically i then go up to a girl and i'm like hey i'm tiger woods i'm like the next big thing in golf you just brag i think so yeah yeah i imagine it i mean it worked for him didn't it yeah famously um hi you might recognize me i'm zach upshot from hbo's series four industry trying it doesn't work yeah anyway back on the court another friend of the pod is about to enter the scene because that season the bulls bring in dennis rodman so he'd been at the detroit pistons so dennis he'd been a thorn in the bulls side uh for many years but he'd now joined them and he turns them into an unstoppable force once again so part of the reason that the bulls become so unstoppable that following season is that jordan steps up his already insane competitiveness so a teammate recalled that the training was training was like a war that year one time Jordan attacks a teammate, Steve Kerr, who he thinks isn't training hard enough.

24:26Steve says, I was like the kid in Jurassic Park who got attacked by the Velociraptor and had no chance. He's a menace around the camp, but you know, having been assaulted and terrorized during training, the Bulls emerged from their camp turbocharged and they win 72 games that regular season, which is an NBA record. It's also this year, 1996, that Space Jam comes out. Yeah. Hey, come on. The iconic film. Trailer? We've got a trailer of it here. When the world's greatest athlete, Michael Jordan, teams up with the world's best loved cartoon character. Such a shit proposition. You won't believe your eyes.

25:07Go! Go! Go! Pardon me, Mr. Jordan. Can I have your audio? Your John Hancock. What's going on here? So now he's a movie star. So he's a movie star now. He's threatening to leap over Zhu Enlai in China. So that year, the Bulls faced the Seattle Sonics in the NBA finals. And they won, despite some very enjoyable mind games from the Sonics coach, George Carl. So George, he'd attended the same college as Michael years back. And he arranged for Michael's old dinner lady to fly to Seattle to cheer on the Sonics. So he turned like, so basically Jordan, Jordan ran into her before the game. And obviously he hasn't seen her for years.

25:57And he's like, Mama D, what are you doing here? And she's, she replies, I came to cheer her on for George. What? Yeah. It's a, that's a real mindfuck. Did you make up the name Mama D or is that her actual name? I think that's what she was called. Yeah. And he starts what he, Mama D in it lady.

26:18Mama DL. I'm a dinner yeah

26:24yeah it's quite it's good good mind yeah decent effort now considering what a penny pincher Michael Jordan is when he jets abroad he's gonna want to save some cash isn't he oh big time wherever he can save a few pennies I'm sure yeah you know say he's jetting into Guangzhou to bollock the kids on some poorly placed stitching on the new You fucked up again, didn't you? Didn't you, you fucking idiot? You fucked it. Are you going to apologize? I was coming out of your paycheck. All right, well, when he's on that trip, he's going to want to get some cheap data so that he can reinvest his money into card games and whatnot.

27:07So when he's on that trip, he's going to want some cheap data. In which case, Mike, if you're listening, may I recommend Saley, a new eSIM service app brought to you by the creators of NordVPN. So say, Lee, it's the best way to get cheap data abroad. You download it once, it's an app, and then you get cheap data plans for 200 countries. Couldn't be easier. Cheapest, easiest way to use your phone abroad. There aren't that many stories of Michael Jordan going abroad. I was looking at this episode so I could insert this ad. Yeah. No, it's all pretty US-based. Barca Olympics. Oh, Barca Olympics, true.

27:42And aren't they chagging loads on that trip? Yeah. Gambling and chagging. I would be surprised if they weren't. It was him and Magic Johnson, right? Hopefully Magic's keeping it to phone sex. In which case... He'll need that. He'll need it easily, definitely. Yeah, when you're chirpsing the local girls via phone. Saley, Magic, Michael, if you're listening. Yeah. So if you, our listeners are going abroad as well, I highly recommend it. I've just been abroad recently and the data could not have been cheaper. So easy to use. Especially because there's a 15 % discount for Upshot. Yeah, I mean, if you aren't already sold on just the easiness and just being able to use your data at that 15%, it makes a difference.

28:28Michael Jordan would be all over that 15 % discount. Yeah, he'd break your fingers for that kind of saving, wouldn't he? You'd be drowning in cash. All right. If you do want to use Alien, claim that discount. and get cheap data abroad, then just visit the app store and download Saley. S-A-I-L-Y. Use code UPSHOT at checkout. 15 % off. And we've also put these details in the description box. Get on it.

29:03So the Celtics do win that game. It gets to him. Ultimately, though, they do lose the series. Should have had her at every game. Mama defense. Yeah, they win it again. And then the following season, Jordan is unplayable. The Bulls win 69 games, so pushing close to their record. There is the odd blip in their march to glory, like when Dennis Rodman disappears to Vegas mid-season, and Jordan has to go and get him. So this is told quite well in the last dance of the documentary, but Michael Jordan flies to Vegas and goes straight to Dennis Rodman's room and literally drags him out of bed where he is with Carmen Electra.

29:42we covered the I really recommend Aldenis Rockman episode it's mental his story and the Carmen Electra relationship is really good that's I think that's the exact same bed where she shoves pasta up his arse sure yeah I was gonna ask that was when he's like he's asleep right and she just yeah and Carmen Electra just pushes a bit of pasta up his arse and he loses it yeah there is in that episode if you if you're already questioning whether or not to listen to it there's a long discussion of which type of pasta is best to pop your bum. Yeah. I'll let the episode do it. Yeah. We won't go into it again.

30:16We'll be here all night. Anyway, that season, the finals are against the Utah jazz, which I got to say as a very, very casual basketball watcher. I've never been sure about their name. Sounds a bit, a bit like a euphemism. Yeah. Disgusting sex act. Or like a greedy Eagle. Yeah. The Utah jazz. Yes! It's a bit rusty trombone, I guess. Sure. I don't know, it just doesn't sound right for me. Actually, on Euphysims, have you ever seen that University Challenge clip where the guy, I'll just, I'll actually just play it to you. Can we get it up? The nicknames Cheesemongers, Cherry Pickers, Bob's Own, The Emperor's Chambermaids, and The Immortals are or have been used for which groups of men?

31:04You're Miss Bright. Homosexuals?