Why Preparation Is the Most Undervalued Skill in Sales Negotiation (And How to Use It)

0:00Most people walk into a negotiation thinking the goal is to win. They prep their numbers, they sharpen their pitch, and they walk in ready to take. That is exactly why they leave the table empty. Today's guest has done what most operators only talk about. Walker Thrash has closed public, private real estate deals that others could not figure out on their own. He doesn't just build buildings. He solves problems by mastering the one thing every negotiator avoids, self-interest. Not yours, everyone's. On this episode, Walker breaks down how the best deals are never about price, why the most dangerous assumption you can make is walking in thinking you already know what the other side wants, and how the operators who close the biggest rooms are the ones who learn to look in the mirror first.

0:54Let's unlock it.

1:04We're live. Today, we got Walker Thrash, the real estate negotiator, the tycoon. I'm happy to have you on the show. I'm excited to deep dive into obviously your experience in real estate, but really unlocking, when we talk about unlocking in the vault unlocking those things that must happen or that must be implemented or employed when it comes to real estate deals and real estate negotiation. Walker, welcome to the show.

1:34Walker Thrash:Happy to be here. Thanks, Kayvon. Yeah, this will be fun. Just so the audience knows a little bit more about you, why don't you explain a little bit, tell us a little bit of who you are and how we got to, you know, how you got into this role. Sure. So my company is called Vertical, spelled with a K. But we are really we're a public private partnering firm. So our emphasis is all real estate transactions, real estate development. But we really, you know, we don't just build buildings. Our intention when we walk into the room is really trying to solve either a city or at the state level, solve a development problem.

2:16Walker Thrash:We specialize in, I would say if you boil it down, ultimately, we try to place risk on the correct sides of the table. And then what sets us apart a little bit from a lot of people that, you know, kind of quote unquote consult in the public private realm is in almost every project. We actually invest all or most of the private capital that goes into the private side of the development. Okay. And how did you tell us the history? Like, how did you get to this point? because I don't think you just wake up and just start investing and becoming the tycoon of negotiation when it comes to real estate.

2:56So tell us a little bit of the history here.

2:57Walker Thrash:No, my family, my grandfather was involved in both grandfathers in the lumber business. My father, very involved in real estate, mainly in apartments. So I kind of grew up around real estate, right? Real estate deals, talking through that. For years, spent time in my family business with my father and younger brother, but really started to have somewhat of a passion for hotel development, hospitality. I ended up forming a small brand. It was part of the group that's formed a small hotel brand that's in six or seven states at this point. And what you learn in putting together hospitality projects, because these hotels were full-served has had restaurants in the bottom is that financially, a lot of hotels have some kind of public incentive to make them work.

3:49Walker Thrash:So somewhat cut my teeth putting hotel deals together, learning the public private nuances where those buckets of capital were. And really, I'd say more importantly, learning how to navigate the public side of negotiating real estate deals. interesting okay so we're the navigation on the public side tell me a little bit more about that well i and i think this is true in private deals as well but it's highlighted when you're dealing with the public realm because to simplify it's no one at the table is their personal checking account on right when you're in a when you're in a public arrangement these are hired people, either it's city or elected, right?

4:37City manager, mayor, city staff, state staff,

4:41Walker Thrash:they're trying to put a deal together. Their number one objective is to execute and deliver on whatever promise they've made. So what you don't see in the forefront, or what I would say is really the tripping hazard in a deal is to make it all about dollars and cents and price, because that's just a commodity in the deal. It's really more about execution, delivering on vision, aligning the party's interest and understanding. And the more deals you do in the public-private realm, the more you somewhat kind of understand the intentions and motivations of the different factions or parties around the table.

5:24Well, it's interesting you say that because we're talking about, I know we're talking about big real estate deals, but that just goes to everything, even the smallest little deal. Like people will buy not because the price is wrong or the too high. It's because they don't see the value. And what you kind of just indirectly said there is if you can execute their vision, execute the speed, the time. So if they see the value in what you're doing, the price is never an issue. Yeah.

5:55Walker Thrash:And prices, I don't want to pretend that price isn't important, right? It's real estate. It's going to be the capital that trades hands, but it's almost never the most important thing in the negotiation. Like you said, value and money are not equal. There's a lot of different value that can be traded around the table. That's nothing to do with dollars. But I would even put in the sense of if you just kind of set aside, and you may not think this way. I do. I'm a believer. Everyone is self-interested, myself included. Yeah, absolutely. I don't. That's not a negative thing. I say this all the time.

6:37Walker Thrash:I mean, that feels like a negative comment. The reality is we're all just trying to make it. We're taking care of our families. We're trying to reach the next step, next rung in the ladder, whatever that is. if you can walk into the room and understand that everybody around the table is the same as you, they have their own self-interest and your objective at some levels to deliver their interest in a way that creates the value you need in the deal, it's a better starting point. To pretend like you're the only one who really needs to have your interest met is, again, that's just a stumbling block.

7:11Walker Thrash:We all need to get past quickly. i couldn't agree more i mean i correct me if i'm wrong i've not i haven't done a lot of like you know studying of negotiation and all that but uh the one thing i remember an old mentor said the best negotiation is when both peoples are like are leaving i'm like almost like not like just satisfied they're not happy they're not ecstatic they're they're almost they're almost like he made it seem like it was almost like they're they're leaving okay because if you're leaving he said if you're leaving happy that means they're leaving upset and that's not a good negotiation if you're leaving upset they're leaving happy that's not a negotiation a good negotiation is when both parties can leave on you know with a with a neutral kind of feeling and i always thought about that i would agree with that and that's that's a really good negotiation and oftentimes that's the best it's going to be if you add one thing on top of it a great negotiation is when the parties leave the table and they feel like they created more value than they thought coming in.

8:15Walker Thrash:And those are the best deals you'll ever do. That, I love that. I love what you just said there. The best negotiations are when not one, when both parties provide more value than they thought they were getting into. Tell me about that. Tell me how there are, I want to unpack that Cause I think that's so important because that can be translated through so many different things in life. It's like, you know, the whole camps, you know, the campsite kind of theory, right? Leave the campsite better than when you last found it. It's the same thing here to me is like leave the negotiation better off, more value, more excitement, more output than what everyone thought it was.

8:57So tell me a little bit, how does, how do you get to that place in negotiation? How do you find that place when in negotiation to look for those things of value?

9:07Walker Thrash:Well, one, I'd say it's over time you do gain experience. You learn the questions to ask. Right. But just in starting off, if you're if you're fresh and you say, hey, what's just a way to change the mindset? And I've been guilty of this as much as anybody is walking into the meeting and assuming I understand what everybody's interests are and I've got a great idea and we're all going to agree on it. And if you can turn that 180, it's, hey, instead of talking about the deal, here's my pro forma or whatever that is, opening up a conversation, asking questions, assuming you have no idea what their interests are when you open the room.

9:51Walker Thrash:You'll end up teasing out things that you didn't think were there. And then, you know, and everybody's in such a hurry. It's like, let's get it all done in meeting one. Sometimes meeting one really is just uncovering, turning over rocks, trying to get information you can take on and think about. But in that question asking, and if it's genuine, there is an appreciation around the table. You'll see that, you know, those questions will come back to you. But the other party really sees and appreciates the fact that, hey, you're trying to understand what they need and want. That is that's just a much more open dialogue.

10:28Sounds like sales 101 to me. Ask the questions first before you speak. Learn. Really try diagnose. Try to figure out what is going on. What do they need? What does success look like? All of the things before you start projecting, like I say, projecting your own opinions, your own facts, your own BS onto the prospect. Yeah.

10:51Walker Thrash:I mean, you know, the more you quote unquote, no going in and want to teach everybody in the room, I mean, the worse off you are. Right. You're not getting their idea, especially you're going to frustrate whoever in the room has the biggest ego. And those are those are real like dynamics around the table. but I if you talk about asking questions this is one thing I have seen a lot I think we all we dismiss the generation beneath us and we shouldn't because there's some tactics that I believe that they actually really good at bringing to the room that you should take note of and if you find yourself in the room let's just say you're not the center of attention you are not getting the questions you're not you know the guy or the woman in the room that that's fielding everything and you're trying to figure out how to get that edge and get into the conversation, here's a novel idea.

11:49Prepare, right?

11:51Walker Thrash:Put together whatever the math is that's going to be on that deal. Or if it's the slide deck, if you have information in your hands, it's amazing. The direction of the questions will start to flow to you. You'll get to ask more questions because of that. And all of a sudden you're a, you're a player in the game, you know, and you may not have been. But if there's a rule beneath all of this, preparing for your negotiation and preparing for your meetings, it may be the most undervalued skill in the game. Wow. This is super important because you said most undervalued. I mean, to me, maybe I'm too naive or maybe just who I am, but I'm thinking, how do you go into a negotiation not prepared?

12:39How do you go into no negotiation not having all the facts.

12:44Walker Thrash:I mean, I just, I'm shocked when I go into meetings and we're busy. I'm going from one meeting to the next, the other two or three people, five people in the meeting are doing the same thing, especially now. I mean, you're going from a team's call to an in-person meeting, trying to grab a bite to eat in between. I see it all the time. I mean, everyone in the room walks in and says, all right, what are we talking about today? Wow, yeah. And if you're holding the singular parts of information, the questions do get, you know, they start to be directed to you. You get to then direct questions back.

13:20Walker Thrash:Preparation. I think part of it is that we like, you know, we watch too much TV or our phones. We just, we feel like you got to be smart, quick, and the quips have to flow. I mean, the best deal makers and the most authentic deal makers, I know they just do a lot of preparation. so preparation i would assume that's a huge opponent i wouldn't that's not surprising me so you know i'm just kind of writing these things down as we're going because i'm just thinking about hey how can i extract the process of of the the art of the negotiation and one of the ones that i'm hearing is for sure without a doubt you need preparation so if we talked about preparation because now i'm going you know thinking about okay how deep are we talking about what level of preparation are we saying here?

14:05Are we talking about knowing the surface level stuff? Or are we talking about going deep and knowing not just the surface level stuff about the deals, but knowing about who you're playing, the preparation of the player, what they like, what they eat, where they live, all of those things?

14:20Walker Thrash:Look, I think there's a little bit of both. But I would say this. I would caution one thing. It's just like I said, I never think it's a great idea to walk into the meeting with everything figured out. Now, it's also the preparation is different as you progress through a longer negotiation. Some of the deals we work on take a year, right? Yeah. 18 months. So you may have several meetings, but let's just put it in. Let's drill it down into something tight. So let's say it's a land deal. You may walk into the first meeting. It would be helpful to know all the comp sales in the area. what the zoning is, like some very baseline things.

15:07Walker Thrash:And I know, you know, half the people listening are thinking, well, obviously you would. I can't tell you how many meetings I've walked into where that information wasn't there, you know, and something that baseline. But when you, when someone has the information, like I said, they become a critical part of the conversation. They get to ask more questions. I think the power is in the people that get to ask the most questions in the room. Well, they say, right. The loudest one in the room isn't the strongest, the weakest, right? And the strongest one in the room isn't the one that has all the answers, is the one who asked the right questions.

15:40Walker Thrash:Yeah, and the quantity of questions matters. You ask enough, you'll ask some good ones. Yeah, absolutely. But it is helpful. I mean, again, at a baseline, preparedness is critical. But I think once you're prepared, being able to speak from your authority is a skill. And it's something you should contemplate before you walk into a meeting. Because give me any business situation, the authority shifts and you may have a different authority in a different situation. but you know if it's real estate related and i walk in and let's just i will do like comparable sales if there's an appraiser in the room he or she is the authority on value right um i then may speak from a different angle and my authority in the room is historical knowledge of deals that have happened in the area.

16:47Walker Thrash:Right. But, but understanding, and everyone has an authority. I mean, the lowest ranking member around that table knows something at a higher degree or at a better level or in more detail than the rest of the people in the room. You need to think about that before you have, you know, a prolonged protracted negotiation. It's important. I'm loving it. Cause like now I'm seeing it right in here is like, okay, preparation to asking the questions and you can only ask the questions if you have the preparation. Number three here, it's, it's really, it's about, no, I put knowing your audience, but really knowing your authority, knowing what the authority is in the room, who's in the room and where they kind of lay in the authority hierarchy.

17:32Absolutely.

17:33Walker Thrash:Okay. Because even if, if you walk into a room with somebody you admire, Like they are just far beyond where you are in your point in life. You know something around that deal at a more greater level than they do. And it may be understanding that authority is born from your preparedness and you understand some of the nuances of the math or the research that's been done. You can create that authority, like I said, by being prepared. And then as you speak from it, you will start to gain a little more traction in the meeting. And like I said, questions start to flow to you as well. This is, it's nuanced, but I've just seen it play out over and over again.

18:19Walker Thrash:And it doesn't matter what your title is. what would you say some of the uh some of the reasons or some of the things that stick out to you when you think about all the negotiations you've done that have stopped deals right in their tracks that like taking deals right off course and um assuming interest and being misaligned with where you're trying to take the deal is a great way to get one off the tracks. By that, I mean, you think it's all about this and it's really about that. And you fail to really take the time to tease that out on the front end. And I mean, we've all been guilty of that where I'm like, here's the carrot.

19:06Walker Thrash:This is going to be the one that really moves the deal forward. And you just realize it's never been about what you thought it was day one. Happens a lot. So is that as simple as just asking the negotiation, a conversation and just saying, whether it's the beginning, the middle or even here, the end is what does success look like here for you? Yeah. OK, it's that's that's I think there's 20 ways you could do that. Um, but in, if you were going to figure it out in a, maybe a few questions, I'm trying to just arm a listener with, okay, let's, let's keep it tight, simple. What do you need in the deal?

19:54Walker Thrash:And that can be a question. That's also a question you need to ask yourself. what do you need what would you love to see happen in this deal which is different than what you need and again i think these are more important asked of the other party than asked of yourself but you need you need to understand both sides of that and then this is the one i think people don't ask themselves enough what does it matter to you at all and that is that's also an important one It doesn't matter to you. Yeah. We assume everything matters. And so often there are deal points that are on the table that they're like, I don't care about that.

20:37Walker Thrash:But you find value in it. And really the nuance there is trading value that's not all about dollars and cents. and understanding what's not important to them is one way to start to figure out where you might be able to capture value and then push value back to them for what is important. Well, I like it because by understanding what's not value about, you know, to them is getting you closer to the one thing that is valuable to them. And they might be holding their poker cards close to their chest where they're not going to tell you what's the most value to them. So it's an indirect way of getting to there, I would assume.

21:22Walker Thrash:Yeah. And in large deals, I've seen a lot. You talk about what kills deals. I love to talk about things in the negative.

21:34Walker Thrash:Again, I'm a big offender, have been in my career on this one, holding the cards too close to the vest in a long drawn out. negotiation or a higher stakes negotiation, oftentimes you do it to your own detriment. And one of the ways I've seen that happen is price is such a sensitive subject. Once you get there, it's always, everybody tenses up and says, what are you willing to pay? What is that? When it's not, I'll give you my, where I think you can take the tension out of the conversation is to make your math objective. And the way I've seen to do that in real estate is, here's how I'm underwriting this deal, and here's my gap.

22:28Walker Thrash:Let's not make this about a secret that I've got tucked away in the closet. Here it is. Let's figure out if we can solve this problem. And when you bring the other side around to helping you solve the problem that you see, I just see that's a much more successful path. It's interesting because people get tense, you said around price. And I was going to say, well, really, is that true? Is that true or not? And then I was thinking it's probably because you read in the books, the person who says the price first loses, right? And you think about that. And it's true. I mean, the science shows that.

23:03But there's a way in discovery, I believe, to figure out what the price range is so that price has to be or needs to be such a shocking thing.