Microsoft Admits Everyone Hates Copilot - WAN Show December 19, 2025

32:12But like I'm just saying to skip a lot of the like steps, it should be not that hard. I think, but I don't know much about GameDuel. William Comartin says, I used to try to name the make and model based on the headlight shape at night. That's pretty cool. That's tough. Yeah. That's pretty tough. That's a lot more knowledge than I would have had. Yeah. And with my eyes. I'm not making out headlight shape, dude. I'm just getting... WebDude says, For reminders and alarms on Android, there's an app, A Calendar, which can handle about five alarms slash reminders with noise or email. Why is it five?

32:50I don't know. Maybe it's just not quite explained properly. Anyway, yeah, we can explore that another time. I just switched over to the Fold 7. Unfortunately, this is not the new Tri-Fold, and it took a grand total of one day for it to not fold completely flat. Yep. So I need to add that to my notes. i want you know what overall i still am really really loving it a lot so far um

33:29it's it's like dude i haven't daily driven a fold in years now and it's like it's like going back into the warm embrace of an old friend, honestly. Really? Yeah, I had a Teams meeting today that they were screen sharing on, so I had a giant thing that I could read text on, and I was like, oh yeah. Yeah, I remember why this was way better than literally anything else. And it's not for everybody, right? Like, the battery life is going to be a bit of a downer for some people, although with that said, I'm sitting at 97 % today, but I did plug in on my way into work, so make of that what you will. Um, but if, if your use case, if your use case benefits from the fold, there's just, there's no question.

34:15I've already run into a weird thing. Uh, Plex, the, the interface, if you tap your, um, uh, your, like your, your user icon at the top, uh, in candy bar mode, it's supposed to, uh, do something I forget, but in like the more tablet mode it slides in a thing from the left and it accidentally did the tablet thing when i was in candy bar so my screen was just going dark because i couldn't see that it was sliding a thing from off screen yeah so just you know that's annoying it's still not perfect i was gonna say i wonder if that's more on the phone i feel like it should be reporting what's the phone it's the phone it's the phone it's android it's apps it's it's just the the poor integration between all of them yeah yeah um it's a plex problem it's just a shitty app yeah sure but that doesn't and this is a take that i i have i have gone to war for a lot of times and i will continue to go to war for um it doesn't matter yeah it's true when at the end of the day right when people choose a device whether they're choosing a candy bar android a folding android an iphone a windows phone i don't care you know whatever it is that people are choosing just keep going um what matters is the user experience and so you know back when i was on some of the early folds and i couldn't use youtube stories i didn't care if that was samsung's fault or google's fault or father christmas's fault it just didn't matter what mattered was that device was not suitable for my use case.

35:57That's all that matters. And so that's, and everyone else, I am the user. I am the one giving the money to have this experience and everyone else needs to accommodate what I need to get done on my device. So like, you know, let's look at, Elijah's actually working on a video about his switch to iPhone, which was made actually for predominantly contact sharing using AirDrop. because he went and was doing some networking at an event and missed out on some really good contacts because they were just like, oh, I have to type something. You're a lesser being. You know, oh, that's way too much work.

36:35I only tap my phone with people. I only interface with highborns. Whatever. The point is he missed out on some contacts. And so he was like, okay, I'm just going to have to do it. But over time, he's found there's other benefits as well. And one of them is that for creative-oriented apps, sometimes they'll get cool new features before they're rolled out to other platforms and at the end of the day is that the fault of the app creator is that the fault of the the phone maker is that the fault of the operating system owner in this case you know google doesn't matter why elijah he says iphone is so much better for creators it's kind of scary why what makes a difference uh the thing i was talking about that you weren't listening to because you were reading chat.

37:22Nice, cool. I wasn't really... And he's going to do a full video about it, so, you know, he'll be talking through a lot of this. Wait, the contact sharing? No, not the contact sharing. Okay. You missed a whole other thing that I was talking about just now. Alright, alright, alright. Yes, we do need to do that. Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, Larry and Topic. So, apparently we all... Perfect timing! Oh! Hey! Hello! Now that's an early Christmas present. I have lots of things to say. I love video games. But this isn't even for me. Last time I did this, am I stepping on a mic? Riley, you don't have a mic yet.

38:02Hold on. There's supposed to be one here. Dan promised. I know, but you don't have it yet. You can't talk yet. I have to wear the... Wait, did we have a place for him to sit? What do you mean? He's just squatting. The world is my oyster. Well, I can't hear myself through the mic, but... Oh, my God. I don't know if it's working. Guess why I'm here, though, Linus? I can literally see it. I can see him talking. Why can't we hear it? They can hear him. They can hear him. If they're good, I'm good. You're here to talk about the Larian thing. Can they hear... Is it coming from this mic or is it coming from something?

38:35Yeah, yeah, yeah. Guys? I got it. Oh, there it is. Hey! I'm here to talk about Luke. Yeah. Because you haven't let him talk about AI enough. Except today you guys talked about AI a ton. So, like, what the heck? Well, I'll tell you what. While you talk about Luke, I'm going to go get you a stool. What? No, no, no, no. He specifically requested no stool. I'm a non-stool user. You know how AI doomers are like, no AI, ever. That's me with stools. He believes in no stool ever. I think stools were trained on other people's work and their copyright infringement. How about an Apple box? It's basically just a chair.

39:14Stools are just chairs, but worse. Why would you ever? He's going to use an Apple box. No, I asked, okay. Now you're going to make me ruin the meme. I asked Dan to remove the Apple box. This is so much worse. Oh, but I do like, if I sit back here, then I kind of look like I'm - You have dramatic lighting. I'm lit by two - hold on. It's okay, I'm lit too. I'm lit by both sides and it's like I'm the duality of man. A neutral party. Okay.

39:49So should I talk through this and then you guys can have your conversation? Or how does this work? You can go. Sure. All right. Certain corners of the internet lost their flipping minds earlier this week when Larian Studios CEO Swin Vink told Bloomberg. Vinky. Yeah, of course. That's what I was going to say. Vinky. Told Bloomberg that the Baldur's Gate 3 studio uses AI tools to help explore ideas and speed things along early in the development process. I hate how much of my life is reading text and then trying to say it out loud. And then having an AI train on it? It's Vinky, right? I have no idea.

40:28Thanks. In the same interview, Vinky made it clear. I like it. It sounds more like a pet name. This has got to be Sven Vinky. This can't be Sven Vink. I don't know. I don't speak Swedish. I don't know if I've heard it said out loud. Vink sounds like a woodland creature. Google it and then you'll get one of the pronunciation Vinky sounds like also a woodland creature, just way cuter and fluffier. Vinky? Yeah, maybe. From like a fantasy world. Okay, it doesn't matter. The point is that Vinky made it clear that there will not be any AI-generated content in Larian's upcoming installment in the Divinity series saying that everything is human actors.

41:05We're writing everything ourselves. Jordan, who prepped this topic for us, said, but that was toward the end of the article, so the odds that anyone read that far, pretty low. Nobody has time for that. After the inevitable backlash for saying anything even vaguely positive about AI, Vinky took to Twitter to try to clarify. Ahem, this is a quote. Holy f***, guys. We are not pushing hard for or replacing concept artists with AI. The post notes that Larian employs 72 artists, 23 of whom are concept artists, and that they're in the process of hiring more. Yeah, the concept art is really what this centers around.

41:48Vinky also linked a GameSpot article from April of this year detailing Larian's use of machine learning for tasks that he said, and this is a quote, nobody wants to do. This uproar has apparently reminded people that Game of the Year winner, Claire Obscure Expedition 33, was accidentally released with AI placeholder art, which was quickly patched out of the game back in April, adding an additional target for the rage of the anti-ai camp daniel vavra vavra whatever vulva i think the did you just say vulva it's what that's not a it's a but it's a biological important landmark if you're trying to find certain things

42:37we're not gonna get demonetized for that the point is the co-founder of kingdom come deliverance to developer warhorse also waded into the mess to defend larian's honor saying this ai hysteria is the same as when people were smashing steam engines in the 19th century vinky vinky said larian was doing something that absolutely everyone else is doing and they got into this insanely crazy shitstorm. Everyone else is doing it. Vulva adds, hold on, I'm not quite done. Vulva adds, I'm no fan of AI-generated art. But anyway, it's time to face reality. AI is here to stay with us. As frightening as it may be, that's the way it is.

43:20Now I'm going to kick you guys off by throwing back to something that Luke and I were actually talking about earlier in this show. Larian sits at the apex of the curve. They're big enough that they're an attractive target for the hate, but not so big that they'll just be like, what are you going to do about it? All right, go. Yeah, one thing I was going to throw in just right off the bat is another game that won awards, because right now we're talking about Larian, who took a ton of Game of the Year awards and many other awards, and then we're talking about Expedition 33, which won everything as far as I can tell.

44:00Another game that won awards, the Multiplayer Award of the Year, Ark Raiders also has a ton of AI stuff going on. All of the movement of the AI enemies in the game is all machine learning. Really? Yeah. And you can hear more about that. Oh! We forgot to, did we even say that? That part's not in the video, but... We can learn about something. But you can learn about something. yeah yeah there's Luke Week on Flowplane there's three episodes one's a Q &A one's a gaming video uh which is like a follow-up to the last gaming video I did on on the first Luke Week and then the other video is something it's us talking about AI which is why I'm here and I felt bad that I didn't I was like we're here for Luke but then I didn't like we didn't even do the call out just wanted to get that clear it's luke week on flow plane yeah but anyway machine learning arc raiders yes so it's it's it's kind of it's in a lot of places um and if you want to be mad at something for ai stuff as far as i can tell the like biggest use of it is largely in arc raiders interesting that's what see hmm they have a lot going on machine they also defend their stances because of things like that but one of the problems is that everyone's throwing everything under the same banner and then it's kind of difficult because where's the line well this is an interesting because with uh sven vinky he on his tweet where he's like guys seriously like you know we're the good guys he links to a game spot article where he talks about how they use machine learning for like the kind of rote menial tasks that no one wants to do but the debate isn't really around like oh okay you used ai to like smooth out your your mesh or whatever i don't know i'm not a developer i don't understand but like stuff that isn't like oh the artistry involved in that it's just kind of like okay you have to reduce the amount of polygons or whatever and it's annoying in a way his argument is that it's actually accomplishing what a lot of people wanted out of it which is that it's allowing for people to focus more on the artistic stuff that they want to do instead of the like menial annoying tasks that they don't want to do which is like but but that's why the backlash isn't about the machine learning the more traditional it's about what we called ai back then sort of it's about the concept art the problem with arc raiders is people don't know where the line is there's a lot of questions for like that thing looks like it might be ai generated be it like generative ai generated because there's little like what do you call it greebles what's the term for when there's just like random stuff added to things to make i call them grubles grubles uh this Star Wars is really well known for this.

46:48They just like, they'll put like vents and pipes on things. Yeah, I know what it's called in the context of a garment, like an embellishment, but that's not what they're called. I think it's Babu Frick. There's a word. So there's a lot of Babu Fricks. Greeblies. Greeblies? Yeah, I don't know. Is that right? Oh, okay. Greebling. Yeah, it's like a term. I don't remember what it is. Babu Fricks though, I'm down with that. So there's tons of Babu Fricks in Ark Raiders where there's just like a tube that'll go from one place to another place that makes no sense at all. and people are wondering like was this someone just adding a tube because it looks cool which totally might be a thing sometimes you like tubes or is this just generative ai just doing stuff and it's it's it's where is the line what's going on the most interesting aspect of the debate here for me was uh basically whether we are going to preserve the practice of like concept art i think people are scared that if you because the most concerning part was him saying oh for the early concepting phase only in the early phase we kind of are throwing ideas at the wall and seeing what sticks so like we're like hmm would it be funny to have a frog with it wearing a top hat or something and then you like find an image of a frog or whatever and you tell a i put a top hat on him and then they do it and they're like hmm it's not so funny maybe we won't go with that you know it is funky and the alternative to that would have been hey a concept artist can you draw a frog wearing a top hat now i feel like in that situation i can easily see a concept artist kind of taking that idea and making a top hat on a frog look funny and look interesting in a way that ai wouldn't be able to but couldn't a concept artist also put that prompt in and go yeah yeah it's funny but i think i could do it better and draw something well the counterpoint to that is that you're basically like starting from if you if you if you prompt ai and you get a result back and you're like okay i'm gonna do that but better i'm gonna like iterate on that you're okay you're starting with the thought process and and that's that's part of the human you know creativity engine but this is a studied phenomenon people are more creative and they think better through problems if they do it themselves from scratch or if they learn how to do it themselves from scratch And like this might be a solution.

49:08This is the whole problem with AI. It's a solution to do something faster But you're probably gonna get a worse output at the end of it And maybe even if so if you have a super experienced concept artist today They could use potentially they could use AI to accelerate a quality job but if you are losing out on the the development of your ability to think through these problems because you've always had this crutch but then i mean oh man see now we're going back to the calculator argument well you won't have a calculator in your pocket so you need to be able to start things from scratch but yes if a calculator had the result of like the cumulative output of human knowledge being reduced like in mathematics if our ability to do advanced mathematics at the highest levels was reduced because of calculators Maybe it has been.

50:03I think there's also a problem here where you have the movie adaptation to a book problem where once you've seen the movie adaptation to the book, when you read the book, your brain is kind of filling in like, oh, this is what this person looks like. This is what this place looks like, whatever. Where if you're just reading the book, I've never seen any of those references, you kind of make it up yourself. If I've seen a frog with a top hat. There are definitely people who are not susceptible to that. I mean I wouldn't have thought it would be possible to read The Hobbit and then create such a sh** movie they clearly completely reimagined that, not for the better yeah, I think there's a whole other set of incentives and problems there have you seen it?

50:46they recast Aragorn in the new Gollum movie you guys haven't heard about this? he's younger yeah, but Gandalf's in it, like Ian McKellen has Gandalf in it, wait, what? but Viggo's too old, anyway They should have just done it anyways. They should have just used Vigo. I'm pretty annoyed about that But I mean that is what it is. I mean the movie's gonna suck anyway, so does it really matter? Mmm. Did you watch the War of the Rohirrim? I yeah, it's so bad. I couldn't make it through it I really wanted to. It's funny cuz it's like oh Peter Jackson's returning for the Hunt for the Gollum movie So it's like but that doesn't mean anything cuz he did the Hobbit movies and they're horrible.

51:22Didn't he come in? But wait it's not

51:28Ah, nice. Didn't he come in late on the Hobbit movies? Did he? I thought he came in to like try to save them. I have to admit that I don't, I know hardly anything about the Hobbit movies because I went to see the first one in theater and I was like, this is horrendous. I saw it also in 48 FPS and I was like, this is horrendous and I just didn't watch the next two. I did the same thing. You did the right thing. I watched the next two because I'm a completionist and masochist like that, I guess, but they didn't get better. Maybe I did, but I don't think I did. They didn't get better. Yeah. I would watch the heck out of like a fan cut, which probably exists.

51:59I think there is one. One movie. Because I complained about this on Wancho a while ago. Someone mentioned that I think there is one. Yeah. Okay. I don't want to take us too far off the rails. Back to AI stuff in video games. Yeah. I mean, like it's, it's, it's also a tough line because we're at a spot and I, and I think, I think this has been addressed actually by potentially Larry and I'm not, I'm not sure, but we're at a weird spot where like a lot of people are demanding, stances of different tools and technologies that people companies really will not use and they're looking for people to make permanent statements on those things and none of us have any idea what's going to happen to the landscape moving forward and that could put companies that are actually going to bother potentially responding to any of this and having open dialogues with people like larian at potentially extremely disadvantageous positions in a field that is incredibly mind-blowingly cutthroat and competitive and you have companies that are not laying people off that are actively hiring that are making games that people like and those companies are the ones that are getting critically looked at when there's companies that are laying people off and are in some cases known for using even more ai stuff and those companies are being ignored in this case and it's just like i think we need better targets for this energy i saw a really a tweet because i can't be here very long i saw a really good tweet uh where someone's like gamers are like they don't want games to be delayed they don't want uh studios to force the developers to crunch either uh they don't want people to use ai uh but they also want the games to come out and play them and like it's like they can't have all of these they want everything gamers are a difficult bunch yeah i i take the opinion that like look if you want to use ai for uh small parts that isn't like and like according to your principle you talk about no output no output don't use the unaltered output you know uh never which is what larian's saying if they want to do that as part of the pipeline you know go for it i don't think we should jump down their throats for that given how ai is here already however i will have way more respect for a company if they do everything without ai and take a freaking long time it's just like is that possible do the economics work sorry what would you i was just gonna say that ai is i don't know if anybody noticed this but ai in for a person who runs a company that has been to a fault transparent and taken stances on a lot of things.

54:38AI is one of the ones that, if you've been listening very carefully, I have never made any kind of commitments for for Linus Media Group. For, against, I think. We, like, barely use it internally. Even when Microsoft came in here and offered to replace all of the employees for free. Every single one of them. Yeah. You were like, you know what? That didn't happen. Not today, Satya. I'm trying to have a serious conversation and you guys are completely taking it off the rails, which is fine. Because I wasn't going to give an answer anyway. Honestly, this conversation was way more on the rails than it should have been.

55:13For me coming in here. And I don't think I even have time to be part of the Mozilla one. Because I feel like I wanted to combine those two with the Larian and the Mozilla. Because they're both just being attacked. We can talk Mozilla, but first I want to do something fun. So I had... You said he doesn't have time. Well, no, you guys can talk about Mozilla. So there was a little comment here in Floatplane from Velocet that I had highlighted I wanted to talk about. yeah biggest problem here is that for a vocal minority it's binary there's no nuance to this conversation and and that's one of the reasons that i haven't taken a stance because people are going to expect me to take like a hard line stance when even if i did it wouldn't be something that i could fully control anyway i don't know if i even want to say this but hot take I'm AI.

56:00There's companies like... i am a i uh there's companies like i don't remember the name of the company behind it but they made silk song uh they're like three people team cherry team cherry has like three people maybe they can control for this at bigger companies like larian has hundreds uh and and they're not even seen as like a big studio um all of those games if it's a binary that you're looking at this set will be made with ai yeah i think i can pretty confidently say that statement And I don't, even if the, even if the head of the company is like, don't use it, it's still going to happen. Do you remember?

56:38Because employees are going to try to take shortcuts. Do you remember when we had a minor controversy? When one of our... I had taken... Do you remember that one time?

56:58No, sorry, I don't. I have no memories. You legitimately might not remember this one. It's not ringing a bell. So we had a minor controversy a while back where I had, on WAN Show, said that I didn't feel that in our industry, working the way that we do and relying on ads the way that we do, that we should use Adblock. And I had made it a policy at our company that we don't install it on our computers. and I got called out like a couple weeks later or something for using Adblock because I screen shared on something and I was using a laptop that someone else had set up, someone else had configured.

57:36That is a perfect example of what you just said. How in a company of more than one person or even in a company of one person, someone can forget a thing that they said at some point and do something, but especially in a company of more than one person, you can have a stance on something you can have an opinion you can even have a policy but at the end of the day not everyone is going to follow it so you could say no ai will make it into anything that we do all you want i i had to i had to read a sponsor spot that was clearly ai generated not that long ago because it was like it was in the form of like uh like rhyming couplets um with all the sponsor talking points and i'm like okay two things one one if you used AI for this um bad and two if you did this without AI double bad because what a waste of time it was like passable but not good yeah it was AI yeah okay there's one other thing some concept artist is gonna have a a bad week and be really frustrated and have a deadline for frog with top hat yeah or have whatever the like oh my god I just I can't get the pose right for some reason but generate okay cool yeah i can make that work whatever the artist equivalent of writer's block is they're gonna use a tool brush block sure okay the other thing i wanted was you guys were talking about greeblies or whatever and i was like oh i wonder what an ai response to the right number of pieces of flare is like will it will it get the office reference or will it will it come up with something so i typed how many pieces of flare is the right amount and it literally is like new try ai mode search whatever's on your mind in your face in your face ai powered responses you literally gave me the ai response well whether i consented to it or not okay well i can if you click not interested what happens the way the way it's a different thing the way it's still like what the heck the way they're branding all this stuff is so insane annoying to me especially as like covering tech news and like it's like google updated this and They have a new mode, and I'm just like, and I have to read through and be like, okay, so this is like the four other things that they call, because they have Gemini, they have Google regular search, they have Google AI overviews, they have AI mode, which is basically just using Gemini, but it's more searchy.

1:00:03It's like... All right, so let's find out what this does. Sure. It's like, yeah. Oh, okay. Okay, so now it just comes up in a different interface. It's basically Gemini, except it's like what we're doing here is searching the web for stuff. Yeah. So it's just Gemini, but focused on search, I guess. What? This is such a stupid... It was doing really well. The running joke, blah, blah, 15 pieces of Flair, blah, blah, et cetera, office space. Outside the film, there's no set right amount to Flair. The term has come to refer to other things, including Flair Airlines baggage allowances. No. No, it hasn't.

1:00:42Hey, haven't you ever taken a shot? You know, just like it took a swing and it missed that time. Yes, it did. It's got a chutzpah. Good Lord. I wanted to say, well, I already said it. Okay. Well, you wanted to talk about the Mozilla thing, right? Do you have time? Okay. I really need to go. But basically, my main, I wrote this, I wrote the tackling story. Somebody. a probationary employee wrote uh notes they're almost done um wrote notes for it and then i kind of edited the notes again but basically the gist is that mozilla got attacked because uh they have a new ceo firefox uh is going to evolve into a modern ai browser is what he said but he also really emphasized trust and user agency and stuff and people like jump down their throats for adding AI.

1:01:39There were so many articles and tweets and stuff where it was like, Firefox is adding AI now? No! I'm out. Guys, Firefox has had AI features for a long time. All the things that I listed there. And people have been talking about this for a while. Alt text generation for accessibility, translation, automatic tab grouping, link previews with summaries, chatbots in the sidebar, an AI window that's currently in beta that you can open, like a private slash incognito window. Yeah, and I noted that most Firefox users may not have noticed these because they're all optional features and you can turn them off.

1:02:16And this is something that they're going to continue doing. I feel like I'm coming out here and being like, guys, don't be mad at AI. You can be mad at AI. I don't like AI, just on a principle. But I understand that what Firefox is saying here as well that it's out of the bag. It's out there, and if they don't add some kind of features in a thoughtful way, they're going to be left behind. And they are being left behind. Yeah, I mean, Vivaldi had that mic drop where they were like, here's our press conference. There's no AI. And then they like walk out of frame. And it's like, yeah, that's nice, but you're like...

1:02:57There's barely a Vivaldi. Yeah, what's Vivaldi's market share? You looking it up? Ask AI. I think it's like 1%. But Firefox has gone from 30 % around 2010 to like, I think it's 4 % or so on desktop and across all platforms, it's like 2%. It's crazy. Yeah, Vivaldi is like, but like, I also want to say - That is the AI overview though, I don't know. Maybe, you know, I feel like there totally could be a future where Vivaldi or whoever is like, hey, all these browsers, like they've been overtaken by AI slop. We're the browser that doesn't have any AI. We're the human browser. And like, you know, people go for that because of that.

1:03:38Like that's their marketing angle, you know? And then if that becomes popular, cool. I just feel like, I don't like the jumping. I didn't like the thinking that Firefox is adding AI for the first time when like, you guys say that you're Firefox users, but you don't even know what the browser is. And B, like, you know, this is where we're at now. I don't know. And I think it's important to understand all of our various perspectives as we come into this. I'm both a business owner as well as a creative. I don't use AI for writing, not because necessarily it's out of principle. I can recognize how it could be useful for some people.

1:04:20I just don't need it. And I don't feel that it makes, even if it makes something that I'm writing better, what it can't do is make it more me, at least not at this time. You know, if we could train an internal LLM on every script I've ever written or edited, maybe it could. Maybe it could literally, like, perform some manner of, like, editing for me. But a big part of how my brain works is just, like, being kind of ADD and going in a different direction all the time. You know, Luke's coming at it from, he manages a team of developers where AI-assisted tools have been just, like, a thing. Everybody's been doing it for a while.

1:05:01For a long time. This is old. You know, Riley's coming at this from a very, like, creative-minded headspace as well. So we're all going to have. Wow. What? I'm creative. I think you're very creative, Riley. Go on. And anyone who's watched your creative sponsor reads, which are literally called that, CSP, creative sponsor placement. I was just doing a bit. We don't have to. I don't know what the P is. I was wondering about this a while ago. Creative sponsor production. Production. All right. Anyway, the point is, like, this is our perspective. And you don't have to share our perspective. but what you're going to have to kind of come to terms with is that everybody is going to have a different perspective that is motivated by their own personal interests and the people around them and what all of those things are going to need to mesh with is that it's here it's happening the steam engine is not coming back you know the ice box harvesting the ice from a cave or whatever refrigeration happened and okay we're not going to do that anymore technically people still do that oh yeah people still ride horses too yeah but it's a thing that people are very passionate about and they very much do but it's not just like tiny uh you know one two three bit studios that just like the process and want to do it and they do it and that's fine just want to jump in i don't think luke meant like two-bit studios like like crappy no i mean amount of people cool yeah yeah so thanks for the clarification because yeah it has kind of like a negative connotation oh yeah i know i i meant in a actually very positive connotation i'm thinking again of team cherry i get it i get three people yeah amazing game i feel like that usually goes the other way that was interesting i'm just saving us here i don't yeah i don't know that one he saved you from something that's good you were about to be canceled right away expressly probably Probably not as major as the hard R incident, but...

1:07:02Yeah. I feel compelled to point out before I leave, I'm going to leave now. I feel compelled to point out that, like, in my attempt to straddle the line between both the blue and the red here, you know, to be the only one who walks in both worlds, like Ghost Rider, played by Nicolas Cage, I feel like I come off as, like, too pro-AI, and I feel like I am very much in the middle. The way I see this is like alcohol legalization. Or legalization of most... Prohibition won't work. Yeah, it's not going to work. It has to be legal so that it can be... Regulated. Yeah, but we aren't regulating it. Well, and it won't be.

1:07:46But I just feel like you can't put the cat back in the bag, but we also don't have to yell at the cat for being out of the bag. Every time it shows its face, we have to be like, okay, the cat is here. I don't like cats, but I'm not going to... You know the right thing. I don't think either of us are particularly, like, pro-AI usage, to be clear. No, I don't think any of us are now. Just in case anyone's interpreting that way. Yeah. No, I mean, I think I brought up... We're all perfect centrists. I think I brought up my OpenAI account on stream a little while ago, and I had, like, three or four chat windows with it.

1:08:16Like, it's... I don't use it, but I also... You know, it's in the same way that... Okay, we did an AMD Ultimate Tech upgrade where one of the first things that we did was make a joke about how Colton's brother-in-law has kind of serial killer vibes. And then we went down to his garage to find a shovel so that we could do a take of me talking about, because he works for our customer service. And I was saying, you know, when you contact us, he'll make sure you get taken care of. And so we went to find a shovel so he could be like patting the earth behind me as I did the line. and in his garage we found a tool that um uh had a handle kind of like a hammer and then on the one side it had a hatchet blade that was sharp on the end and on the bottom so it's like a two-sided like hatchet blade and then on the other side was a meat tenderizer and um so i so i found that that tool processing game couldn't tell you okay um and and what i realized was it's for murder that's a really that's a really interesting tool that could maybe be useful to someone it has the potential for great misuse um and it's not very useful to me and that's how i feel about ai you could use it for ice carving it's like a it's like a hatchet meat tenderizer sure yep yeah yeah and you know Hey, power to the hatchet meat tenderizer users.

1:09:46If anyone knows what that tool is called. Depending, by the way. I'm like super interested to know. I have to go. Okay. Thanks, Riley. Thanks for joining us. This was a much less chaotic experience than the last time I crashed, you guys. Yeah. So have we grown up or have you? Disappointing or good? What's that? Is that good or disappointing? It's both. I feel like I like discussions, but I also just like disrupting you. Okay well godspeed Bye That was not the best for the audio I mean Okay Fantastic It didn't look like this quite But this is sort of the This is sort of the idea I think The tenderizing axe The tenderizing axe That sounds like a Super weird like It's a good band name yeah actually genderizing acts I like that clown metal um anyway we should do sponsors maybe uh let's do our CW announcements oh we have CW announcements and sponsors after that it's the magicalest time of the year hooray where the calendar is almost empty and somehow we're still doing deals from now until December 25th when you buy a commuter backpack you will get a bonus 50 dollar gift card you will get a gift card that is redeemable in the new year after january 1st 2026 you can spend your 50 dollar gift card also and this is crazy our original black shaft screwdrivers are back for a very short time we we found like a thousand of them in the warehouse they were sitting there all this time how does this i don't know how do you just find incredible amounts of things it is a significant source of consternation for me this is this is ignorance i've never done something like that but i just i just don't like i might find something in the back of some closet I haven't gone into in a long time.

1:12:08Or like, you know, that box of like keepsakes from high school. But theoretically, we digitally track our assets. But yeah, how do you lose a thousand screwdrivers? Oh, it was more than a thousand. I just said a thousand. Is it more than two thousand? I don't think so. So it's, so just for argument's sake, let's say twelve hundred. Sure, let's say that. That's a lot of dollars of things oh yeah yeah i wasn't like stoked to hear about it but i was stoked to have you know a cool little drop for for people for the end of the year so uh do you want to fire up the the site we can show people where to find it just to be clear guys this is the same coating that we had before so it will have the same chipping issues that the original coating had if you do not like things to patina then don't buy it please please don't buy it um but if you if you do like that then then that's great i would you know love for you to love it i'm just trying to find i hate the way that um chrome on android it just opens up a news feed instead of just taking me to the last tab that i was using and you have to like click continue to this tab i gotta find that setting and turn it off assuming that it is a setting um oh wait is it is it on the site i don't know uh oh did did anyone check i don't see it uh oh it's like on the home page okay no one put it in the screwdriver category okay well we could maybe fix that yeah yep cool Sounds good Oh is it only on the global site?

1:13:59I mean that would make sense I checked on both It is for sure on the front page though So that yep Okay cool Well apparently we still have stock And you will also receive a$10 gift card with this Which will be emailed to you on January 1st 2026 Or thereabouts It's also on the US site? How is it on the US site if we just found it in the warehouse? Because we probably shipped some down yeah what a wild what a time to be a what a time to be alive uh commuter backpack for sure 50 this is like one of our best reviewed products ever people flipping love the commuter backpack um absolutely great product go check it out you get a 50 gift card with your order usable in the new year and we will have plenty of cool stuff for people to check out next year uh since we're on the subject of screwdrivers this is probably a good time to remind you guys that the prismagic transparent screwdriver series is one week away.

1:14:57I'm just going to pull up the sign up sheet here so you guys can see all the colors. I just go to Prismagic sign up. Oh, that's so exciting. Do we have a vanity URL for this? Yes. LMG.GG slash sign up Prismagic. Okay, that is not... Oh, that's tough. Oh man, is there an easier way to navigate to that? Okay, look, there... Is there two Ps in it? We're pretty new to being a retailer. Okay? Dan's gonna link it in the chat. The point is what is it? Sign up. SIGN UP P. Okay, stop. Riz Magic. You're really not helping. You are the Riz Magic. I'm putting it in chat. Riz Magic actually sounds like a sick DJ game.

1:15:47Hey, DJ Riz Magic. Back in again with a background house. Okay. It'll be available in plasma purple. All the time. Carbon black, molten orange, and cryo teal. Those are my new singles. Got them on Spotify. Here's my SoundCloud. I can't spell my name, though. And there may be a special surprise when they launch. Special surprise. What does that mean? They're launching on December 26th, so that's on Boxing Day, which for our American and global viewers is like Commonwealth Black Friday. Before we just also adopted Black Friday and now we just have both. I have to, this is extremely unimportant, but I just really enjoy that when you refresh this page, it feels like the space where you're supposed to put your email in just like screams into existence.

1:16:46Thank you, Luke. That's very helpful. Once you see it, you cannot see it. Anyways, moving forward, more topics?

1:16:58Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah, sponsors. The show is brought to you today by MSI. This script was supposed to have something about how the sky is clearing up, and I was supposed to tie it into MSI's new MAG 272QPX50 monitor. But the weather has been so unpredictable that this line was rewritten three times. what is predictable though is the stunning image quality that you're going to get thanks to wait what uh

1:17:32no I'm just wondering what gen QD OLED panel it is third gen okay thanks to its third gen QD OLED panel and display HDR true black 500 games will not only look great but feel great too thanks to 0.03 millisecond gray-to-gray response times and a clear MR21000 certification. Oh yeah, and it's got a 500 hertz refresh rate. 500 hertz. I'm just going to take a moment to let that sink in. 500 hertz. Plus, if you're worried about the longevity of this bad boy, It comes with MSI's OLED Care 2.0 to drastically reduce the chance of that happening. And it's also covered by a three-year burn-in warranty.

1:18:20So get your game on today and pick up an MSI Mag 272QP QD OLED X50 monitor using our link in the video description. The show is also brought to you by Skoware Asapesa. Whoa! Whoa! What? What? Launching a business doesn't need to feel like rocket science. Okay, this has to be AI. Is this AI generated?

1:18:51Oh, okay, cool. Launching a business doesn't need to feel like rocket science. Thankfully, Squarespace can help you get your business off the ground. It's an all-in-one platform that is straightforward and new user-friendly. Squarespace's design intelligence uses AI to empower anyone to build a beautiful, personalized website that perfectly fits their mission. And if you need to monetize your business, they have built-in payment tools that work with DirectEbit, Klarna, Apple Pay, and more. Once everything's taken off, Squarespace comes with a full suite of analytics tools so that you can keep track of the state of your business.

1:19:24There are millions of URLs for you to choose for your business, and all of them come with privacy and security features.

1:19:33Glizzyrollercentral.com. And it's sold. we've even used Squarespace for our website linusmediagroup.com so don't wait start building your website today and get 10 % off your first purchase by visiting squarespace.com slash WAN we'll have that link down below Dan I do want to do a couple topics before we do more sponsor spots I also want to double check what generation of OLED panel that monitor is using so maybe Luke could pick a topic while I just check something sure um blah blah blah blah blah do you want more water I'm good. Thank you very much. The RAM-pocalypse continues. As RAM prices continue to rise, Dell, Lenovo, and Framework have all announced price increases and other changes due to DRAM shortage.

1:20:20Framework investment disclosure for Mr. Linus Sebastian says their DDR5 memory configs for their DIY edition laptops are going to go up by 50 % with possible plans to increase by even more later on. Dell sent an email to internal employees informing of price changes, including their Dell Pro and Pro Max notebooks, going up between$520 and$765 for the 128 gig version, or$130 to$230 for the 32 gig models. With TrendForce even predicting that Dell and Lenovo may be going backwards and limiting devices to only have 8 gigs of RAM and smaller storage community?

1:21:08Discussion question. Good luck, everybody. How do you stay excited about tech? It seems like it's bad news after bad news, whether it's hardware pricing, shifting subscription-based models, or even frustrating video game news. What keeps you motivated to make tech content? Well, that's the world, I think. I think it's bad news after bad news whether it's pricing of things everything in the world searching to subscription based models or just frustrating news about the things that we like I'm gonna I'm gonna come in here with a hot take that may actually end up being a full video on the channel because this is gonna this is gonna ruffle some feathers oh boy but I think that we in as tech enjoyers might just need a bit of a perspective adjustment in the grand scheme of things.

1:22:00And maybe this is, again, I'm coming at it from my perspective, right? As a 90s kid, a gaming computer was like, started at thousands of 90s dollars. And today, today, in 2025 dollars, thousands of dollars will get you a sick gaming computer, even in the midst of a Rampocalypse. there are other challenges that are putting pressure on disposable income uh yeah i mean you can say it sucks but like if you compare it i don't think saying we need a perspective adjustment makes sense though when when people's incomes are lower relative to costs when things that are required for living like uh health insurance housing um food all those types of things those costs are going way up 100 relative money to spend on things is significantly lower so we don't have the luxury of spending that much on a for fun computing device that someone may have had in the past.

1:23:01Let me expand on my point. Sure. Here's another big difference compared to when I was a kid. When I was a kid, if you were using a computer from 10 years prior, it was literal garbage. But now you can play relatively modern games. Like I have told the story a few times, I forget which game it was, it might've been Ark Raiders, but I've been telling the story a few times but uh the son of a buddy of mine who's playing on a 2500k and playing some modern game i don't remember which one it was um so so here's the so so so that's that's the thing is a kit of ram way too expensive right now am i paying so here hold on are you guys making that video because i've been refraining talking about the thing you're making that not the one you just mentioned but the the one i messaged you about the marketplace one um possibly it turns out it might be stale already ddr4 prices are skyrocketing and more importantly um like am4 x3d chips are skyrocketing apparently 5800 x3d is going for like figuring this out i just was hoping we'd make the video before then but so right now a 16 gig kit of ram is around 200 us dollars what that means to the budget for like the$550 gaming PC that we built a little while ago that we did a video about with an ARC GPU and a reasonably priced CPU, a kind of value power supply is that you'd probably be adding about a hundred to$140 to that budget.

1:24:34So today in the midst of the rampocalypse you can still build like a high-end 1080p mid-tier 1440p gaming pc for like 700 which is a lot of money and stuff but compared to just about any other hobby tech and gaming have been more inflation proof like name one name anything this was this was a really interesting conversation around yeah uh the price of video games going up yeah it's like it's really it's just i i don't know i can fully understand people still being frustrated you're right 100 i think what you're saying is fair but people's ability to buy it is still non-existent so it like doesn't really matter well hold on like it can be as reasonable as it wants if i don't have the money to buy it it's still well no way hold on hold on hold on because like yeah but you also don't need to buy something brand new, which is something that we have talked about so much on this channel.

1:25:35So that's where... But then you're saying price increases for those things are happening as well. Yes, if you go after the hottest items. So if you want to buy a 5800X 3D, sure. But if you know what to look for. But if you know what to look for, which is what we're here for, right? I feel like DDR4 RAM, though, you're not really looking for specific parts. Everybody's just going to search DDR4. I don't know that it's the RAM that's as bad as the way that the... The platforms are also going up. Accompanying components are also going up. So I need to look into it some more. This is one of those ones that we've kind of scrummed what we basically want to talk about, but we haven't sort of nailed down what the exact concept is for the script.

1:26:15I mean, I can tell you this much. A secondhand kit of DDR4 is definitely going to cost you as much as like$60 to$70 less than a brand new kit of DDR5, which is a significant savings. That is a meaningful savings. I don't know if it was right when, but relatively short after the announcements of these RAM issues. If you went on stuff like Facebook Marketplace, whatever, you could get a lot of DDR4 for not a lot of money. Somebody in the chat talking about DDR3, you're starting to get pretty old. I wouldn't go back to DDR3. I also don't think it's necessary to go back to DDR3. It depends where you're at and stuff.

1:26:57Fire Panda Sasquatch asks, where are you pulling that from? I'm looking at eBay right now.

1:27:05So, yeah, I don't know. I think it's one of those things where we can look at what's going on, where we've got the COVID crypto winter. So we had the crypto winter, which was exacerbated by the COVID silicon shortage. and then we had basically a multi-year sort of recovery from that, that as soon as it happened, literally, I think it was three weeks, two or three weeks after we recorded the MSRP PC video. But we were like, holy crap, for the first time in years, you can buy a PC where every component is at MSRP. The RAM shortage hit, right? And so we can look at this and we can go, oh, well, building computers totally sucks and we should never do it again.

1:27:59Or, hear me out, just a second here, if we actually track compared to quite literally anything else, right? Like, look at what a board game cost. I don't even necessarily disagree with you. Sure. I would be remiss to not point out that it doesn't mean it doesn't suck. It doesn't mean that it's not going to push things out of acceptable ranges for people. Of course it doesn't suck. Of course it sucks. It totally sucks. I think your opening of people need a reality check or whatever it was is just not... It's more that I wish people were a little bit more appreciative of the work that goes into keeping these things as affordable as they are.

1:28:50We did that recent tour of Keoxia. They're fab. Anytime you see a fab at all, it's just like, dude, how the hell do I buy one of these things for the amount of dollars that I get it for? It's crazy. It's amazing. And so basically what I'm doing is I'm coming fresh off of the actual literal miracle, like the wonder of the world that it is, that we can make a microprocessor at all. And then I'm going over into like, I'm so angry that the$500 computer is now$700 when a$500 computer is a miracle in the first place, and so is a$700 computer. That doesn't mean you can't be annoyed about constant extreme collusion and all these other things going on.

1:29:45But it is still neat that our hobby is surprisingly cheap. And the fact that over the last several years, we've gotten to the point where you literally do not have to give Microsoft a hundred of your dollars on top of all the hardware you bought anymore. Linux! That's so cool. Like, can we just take a breath for a second? It could be... And look at the positives. It could be interesting, too, because I think this event, as hot as the used market has gotten at various times, it was mostly just for GPUs. I think this event is going to crank the used market for practically everything. I've done some searching since I sent that message.

1:30:25doing a Scrapyard Wars right now would just suck, I think, to be completely honest. But I think it would be interesting maybe, I don't know if we get the clicks, but making a video on how to try to validate hardware when buying stuff from a used market. I've done it. As best as you can. No one cared. No one cares? I try so hard to bring people to the secondhand water. There's good water here. There's really good water here. Like I did that. You just got to drink. I did a video called I Solved the GPU Price Crisis or whatever, where basically I just bought a 3080 secondhand and showed what to look for to not get scammed and how to test it and how to validate it before you take it home and how to pick one that has a transferable warranty.

1:31:15And basically, yeah, it was like a mini Scrapyard Wars of just buying a GPU. How to? Absolutely bombed. Video bombed tank. No one wants to hear it. dude i was i was at willow yesterday yeah willow video in in langley based used place uh and i was i was showing emma like somewhat of this phenomena because we were there together uh i don't know if i think she's been there before i'm not sure uh but i was pointing out like look there's spider-man 2 for ps5 right there behind the desk all sealed or there's spider-man 2 for ps5 right here uh on the other side of the counter unsealed and there's like a 30 something dollar difference it's the same game come on and people will still walk in there and just buy the new one it's like damn i can't i can't yeah i can't fathom it it doesn't um it doesn't compute for me yeah um something that you probably can fathom even though it does also suck uh nvidia reports a planned 30 to 40 percent cut in geforce gpu production in early 2026 it's being reported that nvidia plans to slash that production uh you know of course it's being assumed that this is because of the run on memory chips uh i think it's a lot more than that personally but okay uh the reports come from the chinese board channels forum and news site bench Life, whose supply chain sources claim that NVIDIA's production cuts will first hit the RTX 5060 Ti 16 gig and the RTX 5070 Ti.

1:32:57Oh, the ones that are like... Yep. Well, the 5070 Ti is the one that kind of makes sense in NVIDIA's lineup. Very cool. We've used it for two recent build guides. NVIDIA could use the GDDR7 from those aforementioned mid-range cards to make more of their higher and more expensive cards and ultimately make more money. That's for sure part of it. Discussion question. How might this indicate NVIDIA's pulling a reverse AMD by only manufacturing gaming GPUs focused on the top end of the market? Is that the future we have to look forward to... What? My ability to can. Oh, I see. Very good. Ugh. I think they also just, man, don't care.

1:33:50I think they feel like a requirement to care about G-Force because of, I don't know, pedigree, history, old times, the horse that got us here type mentality. I think it's a tenth of their revenue now. When is the last time they talked about it in a way that is like, we care about this a lot. we care about raster performance and gaming even last ces it was all just like how much ai enhances g-force yeah so why and then like look at how and you know i'm totally including myself in this but look at how annoying we are compared to enterprise customers that'll just pay whatever oh yeah and just want it as soon as they can get it and if there's like weird problems, they'll just like work with you on it.

1:34:41They'll hire engineers to help fix it. Yeah. Enterprise customers that are getting crazy Boku bucks investment dollars aren't going to care. Yeah, so they're spending someone else's money. Yeah. Right? A customer who is spending their own money is always going to be an order of magnitude more difficult to deal with than a customer who is spending someone else's money. Yeah. Always. and especially when they're spending someone else's money to make money for themselves and that that is like a default for companies at pretty much any scale because you're an employee to company you're just spending your company money it's not as like you're not going to be as careful with it um but also especially at this scale where we're talking like uh hello yes i will take this many like container fulls of graphics cards please um yeah just remember you know just try to remember a little bit on the hopeful other side of this um how different companies acted and then if you care vote with your wallets uh zergom asked an interesting question how much has your badminton inflated uh in compared to pcs over the time that you've been doing it so since i used to play back at NCIX, badminton has gotten substantially more expensive.

1:36:03Rackets, actually, not too bad. So they have benefited from increased economies of scale and better mass production techniques and more automation. Probably not the birdies. Actually, shuttles are brutal. Yeah. So badminton shuttles are... This is what I meant. Oh, I see. Are being impacted by a major worldwide shortage in goose feathers, specifically the ones off the left wing of the goose because the shuttle has to spin a particular way. And if you use the feathers from the right wing, they'll spin the other way. And also court time. So I'm going to shout out some of my buds who run or work at some courts in the lower mainland.

1:36:43When I got into badminton, it was about 20 bucks an hour to rent a court. So ERSC, where my buddy Jason Shum works, They are now charging$30. That's weekdays before 5 p.m. That is like the garbage time, the slow time. So it's$36 an hour. So that's over a span of about, so this would be about the NCIX time. So this is just shy of 20 years. So this is going back to like 2008 or so. Why does it just say? What's up? Package. Oh, yeah. if you buy if you buy a bunch then you can get a yeah it's a it's a slight deal it's honestly not that much i'll showed up my buddy ringo uh how much does uh does a court rental where the ringo where the heck is your court rental price wasn't that what we were just looking at yeah it was a different site oh stringing service lesson faq where's your where's your price ringo okay well trying to oh court there we go all right it's hiding wait I just call uh oh here we go here we go uh yeah 34 bucks uh going up going up in January clear one shout out my boy Daryl uh let's see the yeah Richmond here we go so yeah 20 bucks has gone up to oh sure why not oh my god here we go court rental 30 bucks and Daryl's if you can get a court there because he's really focused on training at his facility he actually runs the training programs for us at smash champs I would use smash champs as an example but what's the point of that that's a facility that I control the pricing of and that doesn't have a long history but all of these places would have been closer to about 20 bucks an hour back in the day and a tube of shuttles would have been like 20 25 bucks whereas now um a top tier yonex shuttle is like i think approaching a hundred dollars canadian retail for like goose feather so very few people are playing with goose feather and like the lower end ones are more like uh 40 plus you're talking a tube yeah yeah 12 12 shuttles yeah it's been it's been absolutely brutal i was chatting with um a buddy who runs a bunch of clubs in taiwan and he's like yeah this is gonna this has the potential to kill our sport if it just gets too unaffordable would would people accept lower quality shuttles yes are you talking about court rentals um navy reymar says shouting out a competitor is based i don't i i have always a different view had a bit of a different view on competition i think that competition is healthy i think it is good for the consumer i think that you can have competition without animosity i think that you can have friendly rivalry do i compete with ringo and jason and daryl yes can we collaborate yes there's also this idea that like if you all together make the sport of badminton more popular in the area you just all win this is the the whole rising tide thing it applies to so many different realms and people realize it's this is not um smash jams also isn't in you didn't open one next door yeah yeah different different market why should i yeah and i'll shout out my boy melissa whatever boy don't worry about it the point is yumo pro shop good shop we're competing with them hard we're probably going to go into e-tail and we're gonna we're gonna compete with them online that's fine i can still respect the hell out of melissa's hustle and and ideally you're bringing more people to space and we can both make each other better and it'll be great everyone will be happy yeah and sometimes someone will not be happy and they will get out competed but i think then they need to they need to reflect they need to look in the mirror i i believe in healthy competition and if that's me then what i need to do is i need to look in the mirror and i have to figure out how to do it better so yeah no i'm uh and i walk this walk in a lot of healthy competition environments people will help each other compete against each other often like it's because it's not about crushing the other party it's about doing better and if you're all like just killing it it's very likely that your industry is just going to grow yes because if you're all actually doing that well it's probably going to be an exciting place to be for for consumers and everyone else there and your industry is just going to grow it's just gonna be really good yeah okay what do you want to talk about next i'm scrolling through i can save my story time about nine bots terrible customer service for next week It's not even terrible customer service.

1:41:54Their customer service was pretty good, but I'm not happy with the resolution. We should talk about that, but maybe, yeah, let's do that. Ooh, next week's probably also not going to be super long. Well, we'll see how it goes. Okay. My whole thing has changed. I can just do it at the normal time. It's fine. Okay. You do whatever works for you. Oh, what day of the week is it next week? Are we going to be spending Christmas together? No. Oh, no, Boxing Day. Yeah. 20 next year is Christmas Day. Okay, cool. Actually, that'll still be fine. Okay. There's, I mean, there's the tech house plans. There's a 3D printing farm.

1:42:31Oh, LTT sells fake PTM 7950. Just kidding. Igor's lab published a review of our PTM 7950 titled Linus Tech Tips PTM 7950 review. Original OEM product or fake. proud to say that we got igor's lab uh badge of approval it's the genuine article thanks for the extensive testing and also uh the the writers of this included a quote which i also love so i'm happy they included this quote this pad is from the edge of the cake among the ptm 7950 products not intended for industrial showcases but fully fledged powerful and in practice at least as good as what is otherwise lying perfectly cut in the display.

1:43:20And sometimes, as I knew even as a child, these are the pieces with the best bite. I actually love that. TLDR, it's all good. Yeah, I exchanged a handful of emails with Igor about this. You know, from my point of view, I appreciate his passion for the subject. That is what I can say is, you know, if there was ever a concern that you had that there was nobody out there like obsessively validating thermal compound, you can lay that concern to rest. because Igor is obsessively evaluating thermal compound. Sick. I wouldn't have thought it possible to write a five-page review of... Because it's just PTM 7950.

1:44:23Like, we just... We're pretty... I think as transparent as we can possibly be. I did not develop a thermal compound. No. I do not have the engineering and or manufacturing expertise or capital to develop an industry-leading thermal compound. I accept that. I accept that about myself and my business acumen and resources. So what I did is I took a thing that exists already that someone told us was good and that we validated, we thought was pretty cool too, and then really smart people have told us is really good, and then we made a box. really skinny box it's so skinny it is a skinny box it's a skinny box colorful too it's got orange on it we made it three colors we put it right on there yep we did it yep go reddit um and uh and so i wouldn't have thought that it was possible to write a five-page article about our endeavors to put a box on a product that existed, but he did it.

1:45:26And with flair, as Luke pointed out, maybe even with the minimum 16 pieces of flair. I thought it was pretty great. And honestly, it's a fair enough question, because apparently this is like a thing that it's faked often and it's like hard to find. Which is why we sourced it in the first place. Difficult to get it from the official company and all that jazz. But we didn't source it from a fake source. So there was no concern in my mind that we were selling fake PTM 7950. Yeah, but if someone's asking the question, I appreciate that Igor answered it. Yep. Yep. I mean, yeah, that's good. Nice. And sick quote.

1:46:15It's so awesome. It's actually just a great read. are we talking about your wikipedia article in floatplane chat right now yeah i didn't know this was a thing yeah i uh i caught this earlier this week uh so someone attempted to create a wikipedia entry for mr luke lafreniere um who was declined for not being notable enough but i actually take no hold on a second i actually was it actually which one's that that's what people said on reddit i actually don't see that in the uh that's funny though hold on that is they do not show significant coverage about the subject in published yeah yeah basically yeah pretty much paste um however however however i actually i i think that that might be a self-promotion issue for you so one of the things that makes someone notable is how often they've been covered in third-party media but i we've talked about this a fair bit in the past where i will often get like spam to my inbox that's like hey we're publishing a list of the top 10 tech influencers or you know the top most influential people in in technology and media or uh social media or whatever um do you uh we'd love to include you that'll be 500 or whatever so I actually strongly believe that with a little bit of effort you are very influential with a little bit you're saying I could I could very broadly known by influence I think we just I think we just need to play the game I just think we need to play the game a little bit you know if it's third-party sources that they need which is what I'm seeing here the only thing that I think they need to include is the handling of the hard hard event and then you'll have infinite third party sources yeah well i mean you don't want your entire wikipedia article to just be like he saved linus's company yeah but that's what that's what gets it through the door and then you can add the fun stuff what is it like early life rise to fame strife downfall notable controversies yeah controversy and then array one two three four five six i don't know i think that with a little bit of effort and i'm gonna throw this i'm gonna throw this back to the community a little bit oh no we could maybe you know we could maybe prod some publications or maybe maybe just uh you know get get some invitations get some invitations for interviews no no like being interviewed by people is important okay like um um i'm trying to remember because i i my initial couple of those the community tried to get me on there a number of times before they ultimately succeeded and i don't remember what the threshold was but it was also i was rejected for not being notable until such time as some arbiter of who's notable on wikipedia decided i was notable right i mean here's something that here's something that could potentially um that could potentially i do understand like if there's a wikipedia page for everyone then it just gets a little bit ridiculous yeah that's and that's fair enough yeah should we should we talk about the thing i don't i'm not offended by this uh talk about uh what you know the thing oh uh i 30 minute warning this might not be the show i'm not even i just i think it's maybe not.

1:50:02I think we do it the one after next week maybe. Dr. Gizmo says the thing. So that we have more time. Luca 103 says yes. We haven't done After Dark. There's 30 minutes left. Crystal says thing?

1:50:16I'm just saying. I think there's not time. I think we do it the week after next week. I'm not even, I don't think I'm But we have to do after, there's merch messages I'm sure we have to do After Dark. And I suspect that might end up, I suspect that'll either be a very short or very long conversation. Have we even told people how to send merch messages yet? No. Holy crap. This is what I'm talking about. We don't have time, brother. Did I finish the rest of the sponsors? Good Lord. We do not have time. This is not the show. Hey, it's that time of year to buy something on LTTstore.com. You could pick up some of the new deals that we have right now.

1:50:57Buy a commuter bag today. Get$50 to spend. Or hey, we've got a limited, very, very, very limited number of black shaft screwdrivers. So you could go ahead and add a commuter bag, add to cart, boom, head to the cart and you'll see, ah yes, the interface to send a merch message. It will go to Producer Dan, who will probably this week mostly not curate too many of them because I do have a hard out in a little bit. And I mean, or you guys could hang and do some merch messages after I leave. Either way, he will also maybe respond to you or forward it to someone who can help with your message. You place your order, and then instead of just throwing money at your screen, you can throw money at amazing merchandise like our quality commuter bag or a cool hoodie like the one that I'm wearing or a cool shirt.

1:51:40Oh, Luke's wearing the Glitch shirt. So you could go into your cart and you could be like, Glitch, please. And then you'd get a Glitch shirt. That would be quality. Dan, why don't we do one merch message to show people how merch messages work? Sure. Hey DLL, when considering the tech house, were you afraid that having the easiest house would affect your ability to make entertaining and more quote-unquote universal upgrade videos for others to watch? No, because there will be, in my mind, the tech house is just the beginning. Nice. In my mind, we... Tech town. No. In my mind... Tech small city.

1:52:23Hmm. interesting rv park oh in my campsite in my mind this is just the first one so we want i wanted to it's just like i said at the beginning of the video i wanted to have something that is somewhat relatable that people could follow along at home a bit where we have to solve real world problems you know we're gonna have to be we're gonna fish wire up through through walls we're gonna we're gonna solve real problems whether we do it intentionally or unintentionally because like we might i'm honestly really excited for this we might pull a bunch of the drywall off to make it easier to run a lot of the wiring and then we might realize that oops we got to run another one and we're gonna have to figure that out we're gonna what if you find a mold then we're gonna have to solve that oh my so we're gonna it's gonna be challenging i'm not worried it's not gonna be challenging enough but i did want one where i kind of had a pretty good vision of like what it kind of might look like and how we might tackle these challenges if this goes well if it's a huge success then i could totally see us doing something very similar with a condo something very similar with a more challenging house you know with a with a rancher that's right on a slab where we have to like really dig deep and find solutions uh no i'm i'm super excited about it and I think it's going to be flipping awesome, pun intended.

1:53:56Um. Oh, sorry, what am I supposed to be doing? Oh, yeah, right. The show is brought to you by Saley. For many folks, the holiday season comes with a lot of travel, often to other countries. And phone companies just love to hit you with fees when you travel. Well, thanks to our sponsor, Saley. You can stay connected for less when you're away from home. They'll hook you up with an eSIM plan that is custom tailored to wherever you're going, no matter how long you'll be there. They have plans in several countries that are starting at just a few bucks, which is way cheaper than getting hit for even one day of roaming.

1:54:26Don't worry about going over your data limit, though, because Saley offers unlimited plans so you won't have to miss an episode of the WAN show. They really know who they're talking to here. And if you end up staying at the family's house a little bit longer, Saley makes it super easy to change and add a little bit more time to your plan. So download the Saley app or go to Saley.com slash WANSHOW where you can get 15 % off a plan just by using code WANSHOW at checkout Finally, the show is brought to you by Vessi. Last week we had quite the downpour here in the Vancouver area, which is common this time of year, but it was worse than usual.

1:54:59The point is, quite a few people were doing holiday shopping with squelching socks, I think, and if you don't want to be a wet sock Wendell then check out our sponsor, Vessi As always, Vessi claims that their shoes are 100 % waterproof. And if you're looking for a gift for the favorite puddle jumper in your life, you can check out their Stormburst collection. They have removable soles for all-day comfort and a rugged grip that's perfect for winter walks. And you can snag a pair of Vessi's high-quality gloves to go with them. As an added bonus, the first five people... The first five? Oh, wow, that's really not a lot.

1:55:34The first five people to use the following code will get up to$250 to redeem at checkout. are you ready here it comes uh okay vip everyone hates squilching socks so save some money hope everybody got that good luck way to go vessie you're distracting people from watching our show that's fine they probably had it on the second screen anyway all right what do we want to talk about next uh we are really getting into not a lot of after dark territory but um a school security ai flagged a clarinet as a gun and apparently it was supposed to do that a florida middle school went into lockdown after an ai security system flagged a student's clarinet as a gun sending police rushing to the campus for what they believed was an active shooter situation officers later confirmed there was no threat and the weapon was a banned instrument carried by a student in a holiday costume the ai system made by zero eyes scans security camera footage for firearms and alert school officials and police despite the false alarm the company said the system worked as intended arguing that it is better to act on uncertainty than to risk missing a real threat a position the school appeared to support critics say that incidents like this highlight the risks of ai-based school security pointing to past cases where similar systems have mistaken harmless objects for guns and caused panic they argue the tools are expensive unproven and may increase stress and police confrontations rather than improve student safety sending a bunch of extremely high stress people with firearms into a situation where they think kids are being shot at because of a mistake well i support this because i just plain hate the clarinet i'm just i'm kidding it was just a joke but we need to move on anyway hopefully it was uh called off before they got there um yeah anyways uh a former amazon oh you know what Let's do this one next week, too.

1:57:34Okay. Yeah, I'm moving this next week. Yeah, there's a lot of topics, dude. Yeah, I don't know what happened because I... I thought you messaged saying there was, like, none. I did, and I don't recognize a lot of these. They weren't on my thing. You say that every single week. I do not say that every week. I just say it many weeks. Every week, yeah. That's not true. Oh, there's no topics. I have not seen this Facebook one. Facebook has apparently tested limiting users to a maximum of two shared links per month unless they pay for meta-verified. links in only two organic posts per month if they're not verified users who hit the two link limit are prompted to subscribe to meta verified if they wish to share additional external links they are in the business of getting scammers to pay the money we talked about this earlier in the show maybe it's just more of that the trial currently focuses on a subset of independent creators and pages that are using professional mode notably traditional news publishers are excluded from this specific test for the time being.

1:58:32Though it is worth noting that in many countries, they can't share news on Facebook due to attribution and compensation laws that Meta doesn't want to deal with anyway. Okay, cool. That was all I had to say about that. Facebook sucks. Cool. Let's move this one to next week. I'm just going to highlight it. Next week. This is weird. Sure, go for it. YouTube is letting creators make playable games with the gemini 3 tool youtube is testing a new feature that lets creators build yeah uh the the project called playables builder is launching as an open beta for select creators the tool works through a web app that lets creators describe a game in plain language with no coding required youtube has already been experimenting with small games on its platform since 2023 and added multiplayer support last year so this is an expansion of that idea with ai doing most of the setup work youtube says that the goal is to make quick bite-sized games that viewers can play inside youtube why on on desktop or mobile not full-scale releases think simple interactive experiences rather than polished story-driven titles or console style games Critics point out that while AI can help generate basic game mechanics, making a game that's actually fun Usually takes iteration, design skill, and human judgment Because AI can create a game doesn't mean people want to play it Okay Okay So it's like really bad frog game I guess But you're blue now Nice

2:00:15So it's gaming slop You are running in dirt So the name of the game seems Oh that was it I can't tell what are obstacles and what are You died Yeah Um Okay Well that was something Uh Cool I um I guess for me The big question is Why yeah that's for sure that's my same question as well netflix tried games i don't think that worked out i don't feel like youtube needs games study zone my new task is to finish the when show like what am i do i check it off achievement unlocked first steps my like biggest concern about youtube right now is that they seem to be pushing towards shorts quite a bit and oh god it's so much it's getting so bad are literally called by a lot of people like slop or brain rot or something else like that and youtube was always known as a like wholesome community platform that is like some is questionable but definitely community in a lot of ways i think it's seen community and wholesome i have a lot of paired connotations this is my home page right now an ad it is more than half shorts two live streams five shorts that's all that's above the fold zero vods i get three vods one of which is an ad so that i can shop i get this youtube playable garbage stupid then i get another live stream finally a vod and oh my god i got rickrolled that is the first two no no no no that's a mix these keep coming up as well more shorts that's a mix it's different more ad the rickroll is like something different it's not like a video full width ad like this sucks and i'm i'm worried that uh youtube is going down a not good path in regards to I've raised this.

2:02:30It's like future legitimacy. I've raised this. The ability for outside companies to encroach on its part of the internet. I can't raise this any more often than I already raise it. You're dumping mud into your own moat. Like. How about just let someone else be the brain rot platform and you can you i think you can have shorts on it i don't think shorts existing on youtube is the problem i think it's the promotion level of them make it trying to make it the primary part of youtube i think is actually a very very bad idea um

2:03:16yeah to the point where if you really want to do that i almost think it should be a separate app anyway um trying to do too much trying to be a gaming platform you're trying to be v shorts platform trying to be a live streaming platform trying to be a vod platform trying to be a post comment thing platform trying to be tv and what i mean by that is like old school tv not the fact that it's on a tv to be clear um it's it's rough i have within the last like year i think i've never heard so much negative sentiment about what youtube is yeah and what i mean by that is again attaching to words like brain rot ai slop things like that i've never heard that type of stuff generally people are very positive about what youtube is and might be very negative about things that are on it or how aggressively they monetize it sure something like that but youtube at its core everyone was always very positive about yeah and then that is now changing and that's a and they resisted the urge you know back when vine was a thing youtube resisted the urge to just be vine or be snapchat or be you know whatever more um digestible rapid fire content was you know they didn't have to add you know dming uh they didn't have to add you know short form vertical videos that you can swipe through they they really didn't have to add this game thing.

2:04:49They really didn't have a lot of extreme addiction, actually extremely bad for you things. Yes, people would spend way too much time on YouTube, whatever. And yes, that was their business model and still is. For sure. But there are rather extreme levels of manipulation when it comes to short form content, which is like actually bad for your brain and like extremely hijacking, dopaminergic blah blah blah blah blah things that I don't understand. Go watch someone else talk about it. I don't know anything about medical stuff. Please don't hate me. It's it's yeah, there you go. But it's it's it's they're not they're not like good for us shorts are Highly questionable as a thing and algorithmic tuning to was was something that I feel like they were more thoughtful about in the past Yes I remember having a long conversation with them back when you remember that trend when it was just red hot knives cutting through things was like half of the stupid videos and the other half were like how many how many M &Ms can you flush down a toilet?

2:05:43And I was basically like, I talked to them and I was like, look, I'm not just sitting here whining and moaning because, you know, my more technical actually requires a little bit of cognitive load. Content is like getting fewer views right now. Obviously, that's a concern for me. I do wish to be promoted, you know, on the platform. Right. But if your bar is going to be that anything that doesn't get the click through. If you are this platform now. Gummy bears in a toilet or red hot knives cutting through watermelons or pieces of feces or whatever it is. If I can't achieve that level of click through, then I just like don't get my videos served.

2:06:27Is that going to be good for your platform in the longer term? is that going to be good for the creator ecosystem that you're trying to build where people can have predictable stable performance that allows them to hire people and build businesses is that what you want and i feel like they've lost track of youtube felt like it was being built for the forever and right now again over the very relatively short period of time maybe a year somewhere around that it really feels like they are it's been rough diving extremely hard for the short term which is not a game they even need to win they were effectively a hundred percent of the market share of the forever video platform win that you already had every eyeball of everyone on the planet basically you know how they they stopped reporting like user change because it It was effectively population change.

2:07:24Like, dude, you won.

2:07:31Please don't grasp defeat from the jaws of victory. It's not necessary, and you can still not do it. In other news, the ChatGPT app store is here. OpenAI has opened up app submissions for ChatGPT, letting developers publish apps that run directly inside the chatbot and appear in a new app directory. These apps can extend conversations by taking actions, like ordering groceries, building slide decks, or searching for apartments without leaving ChatGPT. Oh, good. Developers can build apps using the Apps SDK in beta and submit them through the OpenAI developer platform. Approved apps will begin rolling out next year and can be discovered through ChatGPT's tools menu or triggered directly in conversations.

2:08:13For now, monetization is limited to linking out to external websites or apps, while OpenAI says that it's exploring future options like digital goods. All apps must follow safety and privacy rules, that shouldn't be too hard, with clear data disclosures and easy ways for users to disconnect. Canva, Expedia, Spotify, and TripAdvisor are already available with app integration, although the new store is being launched with an open call for developers to put new apps on the platform.

2:08:44Cool. I really just don't want to talk about that. so why don't we do some rich messages yeah sounds good

2:08:52hamnetics says number one selling app girlfriend no way is that true no it was a mrs uh krabappel honk uh they're calling me a goose

2:09:09this is this is why i have to play on my phone the whole time otherwise it takes too long okay yeah i got a couple here for you let's see hey dan tell linus and luke i say hi uh calder says hi technically you did that yourself i recently programmed some automation dockers and without chat gpt it would have taken four times as long are there any better ways to learn to code am i stuck with chat gpt luke's face

2:09:39i can i can feel the the cringe from here i mean uh man i really enjoy this person's channel sometimes when they release videos because i think there's big gaps between them but i might be wrong i might just not see them that often but um basically homeless we've talked about him on my show before oh yeah i'm certain he had a video out recently that i i thought was fantastic which is this one i tried switching to linux for yeah there's some big gas for new videos okay i'm not crazy um the i tried switching to linux for 157 days very interesting video uh fun ads i'm used to youtube premium so whenever i see ads on youtube i'm like what that's not allowed yeah um but yeah great great video in general go watch it but um one of the topics that he brings up is that the accessibility of running linux is actually kind of a lot higher thanks to if you're like hey i'm having this problem and it's like oh just copy paste this into command line and you're done and it's like oh cool command line's a lot less scary and i mean there's questionable things about letting you know ai run your command line but a command line is a lot less scary when you just you don't have to learn what every little part of the command means when you're just copy-pasting it.

2:10:57It's a very interesting video. Go check it out. And in the same way, this makes it easier for you to do what you're doing, but it's questionable whether you're actually learning Linux. Are you actually learning that? Or actually learning coding. Yes. And if your goal isn't necessarily to actually learn it, okay, you can also prompt things in a way where you make it like, you know, don't actually give me the answer. Yep. just like you can make it try to teach you but it won't do that by default no and i think the vast majority of people are not using these things in that way so like if we're being realistic um in a lot of ways it's actually stopping you from learning the thing and again that might be okay depending on your objective um but yeah i mean there's who's ringing uh that's me sorry um it's it's um i don't know there's lots of there's a what's that one company i've heard they're cool they do like larian yeah um no it's i i don't remember what they're called but they do there's like a very gamified way of learning to code how pathetic is it that i'm sitting here struggling to think of another cool company oh the ones that have the kind of like friendly Cano?

2:12:15Do they still exist? Maybe that's it. I don't know. Elijah said boot.dev. I don't know much about them. I haven't used their service. I think you're talking about this one. I've heard they're cool. This is the kid version. I think I was thinking of boot.dev, but I think this is the kid version. Okay. Does Scratch have like a learning thing? I think it does. But that's a little before programming. It is very intro, but if you haven't done any learning yet on programming, Scratch is really cool. you can actually do some surprisingly good things to scratch um i think it's turning complete

2:12:51um but so it's powerpoint before okay i don't know i don't pay that much attention that isn't why i brought them up to be clear um but yeah i i think it's kind of a neat idea um to to make it kind of a game so that it's fun especially if you're doing this just for fun. I know we've done spots for boot.dev. Yeah, I just didn't remember. Coding game? Somebody said coding game? I don't know. Yeah, there's like near infinite ways to learn how to code these days. There are so many different services that you can subscribe to that have cool different angles on it. There's tons of free information out there.

2:13:32There are YouTube tutorials more than you could possibly imagine. With nine minutes. There's everything. You mentioned that one that was like the 11-hour Godot tutorial. Amazing video. Incredible. Unlimited knowledge out there. All right. Any long-term plans to either partner with or create your own brick-and-mortar presence for LTT store products? If memory serves, did Micro Center have the screwdriver for a while? How about a Best Buy? Retail partnerships are tough because this may surprise you, but retail requires significant margin on the product that otherwise we could take for ourselves.

2:14:14And retail also has a lot of baggage. Retail, especially with a relatively small entity like us, will demand very challenging purchase terms. So they'll pretty much say, yeah, we'll pay you when we feel like it. any returns you will simply eat them we will just destroy them we will not bother to return them to you and things could be returned for reasons as trivial as a little dint on the packaging and

2:14:49yeah like it or lump it and if we had the kind of clout that we could negotiate a better deal than that or if we had really deep margins on our products then we'd be able to absorb that but there's a reason that the direct to consumer model works um and so we looked at it pretty recently and based on sort of our anticipated we haven't talked to anyone about the specifics but based on our anticipated expectations for the margins and the and the oh yeah loss too like there's a lot more theft in a retail location than there is in a secure warehouse somewhere and they're not going to eat it. We're probably going to end up eating that too.

2:15:30So that one I don't know for sure, but I do know the other ones. The point is just that we ran sort of some preliminary estimated numbers and we compared that and it would probably cost us less to just subsidize shipping on our key SKUs versus to give up the margin and overhead of having them in retail. there's a reason the detail is competitive yeah all right linus and luke do you think we will see another in another couple years of game performance stagnation because the user base will be running older hardware longer like what happened during covet uh i.e ps4 and ps5 um the performance stagnation is an interesting for me it's it's it more comes down to because there's always a cycle right with with consoles and you're going to see a new console is going to come out that's going to push the boundaries in terms of what game developers can can build to run on it and then for a while there will be pretty much no point for any cross-platform game targeting anything other than sort of approximately that but plus or minus some bells and whistles um and then you'll get a new console and there'll be like kind of a two to three year leg as games that were actually started development targeting that console start to come out and then uh you'll see sort of a benefit to having a higher end pc there so that that's part of it but the other part of it is that for i feel like almost kind of two super cycles now uh we've reached the point where the gating factor is just how much bloody work it is for developers to build bigger and bigger games you can't just expect a bigger prettier game every time unless the company is you know rockstar where they will spend literally the better part of a decade working on a game.

2:17:22Hundreds of millions of dollars, you know? I don't know if you want to say it's a bigger game, but looking at, again, Embark Studios for Arc Raiders in the finals, those games run really well, actually, and look pretty great. So it's still possible. I think there hasn't been a ton of incentives for companies to focus on that in a long time. Yeah, that's true. And that might be changing a little bit, maybe, potentially? I don't know, RAM? I was wondering about the impacts on Chrome. Like, does Chrome development change a little bit because of RAM limitations? Right, like if your product just isn't competitive because the install base is...

2:18:01I would rather use some other browser that's less memory hungry. I don't think that's going to be enough to destabilize Chrome, just to be clear. But it's just an interesting thought experiment of like, Like, we're hearing companies significantly limiting RAM on devices. Like, wasn't one of them limiting to 8 gigs? 8 gigs in 2026, bruh? Dang. Yeah, it's not great. Like, that's... I can get Chrome to 8 gigs real fast. There's also... Man, another major factor is that the lead times on all this stuff is so long that if I was starting the development of a game today, I wouldn't even be accounting for the RAM shortage.

2:18:36Nope. By the time I release my game, the RAM shortage will be in the rearview mirror. so yeah and then anything that was already started is going to be wasn't accounting for it anyways and you can tune you can optimize I don't I don't think that it will be a major factor I also don't think that your even your premise is necessarily correct Nvidia's gaming revenue is up 30 % so this entire premise of that everyone's running older hardware so you know no they're specifying ps4 and ps5 because games often target console performance they see they say older heart like what happened then no no they're saying it's happening now because of prices going up we'll be running older hardware like what happened during covid i.e ps4 and ps5 yeah so so i don't i people are not not buying computers right now.

2:19:36They are. And the thing that I talked about earlier, where I understand why people are angry that RAM is more expensive, and that's totally valid, but buying a computer relative to everything else around us in the world is also more affordable than ever, just like TVs. TVs and computers have been shockingly inflation-proof over the entire span of my lifetime to the point where I feel like we just take it for granted. we can't so I guess maybe that's what I didn't explain very well earlier maybe that's the perspective adjustment we need is like do not take this for granted the fact that things are as good as they are is actually a modern miracle it could be so much worse we know it can be and we're looking for it to get back there we wish it were better but it could be so much worse I think the don't take it for granted thing is probably a stronger angle personally um all right last one i got for you today hello wan.dll i've heard a lot of debates surrounding msps and whether or not they are effective what are your opinions on using an msp instead of doing everything in-house medical services plan managed service provider i think is what they mean um so like uh out of house it is i think what they're referencing.

2:21:01I've heard places that have done it very effectively. I've also heard a lot of stories of places switching to something like this and then being like, oh no, it's really bad. And then trying to go back to what they had before, but now they fired all their people so they can't get those people back because they've gone other places now and then things are just really rough. You lose your tribal knowledge. Yeah. I think at large companies, a mix probably makes a decent amount of sense. Okay, comments in chat. Really on. We have an MSP. It effing sucks. Vanok working for an MSP. I want to die.

2:21:40Fox Jacon. I worked for an MSP. Nope. Yeah, I think the, like, oh, we can just outsource everything and put everything in the cloud and nothing has to be local anymore ever, even people. That whole idea didn't turn out as well as people hoped. And there's a pretty big benefit to just having your own IT people that understand your space, understand your environment. Know your people. Yep. And can adapt things well and understand the needs of individual people and people who might be working in different departments doing specific things, etc. All right. Unfortunately, everyone, I have a hard out right now.

2:22:19I've got to go. And I got work to do. Nice. Yeah, it's so weird when we do WAN early. It is extremely strange. My brain starts to shut down, actually. It's, like, not good. Oh, it's, like, conditioned. Yes. Like, we have not missed a Friday WAN show since, like, the start of COVID lockdown. Yeah. Like, it's been five years. So, on Friday, when I say the thing. Yeah, which hasn't been said yet. Hasn't been said yet. Don't do it! I, like, I have this, like, energy letdown that is, like, relatively extreme, actually. Yeah, I don't know how to not go lock up the building. Yep. and like go home and sleep.

2:22:57It's weird. Yeah. It has happened where I've just like wandered for a second and then been like, oh yeah, I guess I'll go to my desk. Yeah. Oh, it's super trippy. It's very odd. Yeah. It's probably the same for a lot of them too, actually. Wouldn't be surprised. Like if they're used to the WAN show at a particular time in their time zone. Screws up the ritual. Yeah. Because like, I mean, it's, you know, we're not like the biggest live stream in the world or anything, but there's like probably a solid 10 ,000 people watching. and I would say out of those just based on the names that I see a lot of regularity there's a lot of people for whom the WAN show is like part of their Friday routine it's just like yeah we'll try to get back to a more regular schedule it's just Q4 and the holiday season and all that stuff things have been a little wild we'll try and get things going for you and we'll see you again next week same bad time same bad channel bye

2:23:52we're gonna get right here do I I

2:24:07you