You Need To Move To Linux Today - WAN Show July 17, 2026

17:51Luke Lafreniere:200 whatever tilde some crap and then tilde like what function did that serve

17:58Linus Sebastian:that i have i have no idea what you're talking about to be honest and if it doesn't serve a function then could it just not i feel like that's the kind of thing that there's got to be like it

18:10Luke Lafreniere:there's got to be a way i could make linus linux and that could be like the one thing i change that would be like my fork of like mint it would just change that control v would just work in the terminal and then it would be fine it could be a box in the settings that you got to pick yeah yeah mac os users are just freaking out and for me even suggesting that sorry guys i can hear them screaming oh that's amazing what the heck is an option

18:49Luke Lafreniere:anyways uh should we talk about another topic yeah sure want to pick one yeah i want to keep

18:55Linus Sebastian:it kind of on topic a bit, though, because I want to jump to On Topic WAN show?

19:00Luke Lafreniere:Who are you and what have you done with the WAN show?

19:04Linus Sebastian:I've been around San Francisco for too long. I want to talk about AI. Oh, no!

19:12Luke Lafreniere:They got him! They got him! Look how they massacred my boy!

19:21Linus Sebastian:It is, dude, you know what? Okay, we'll take a quick aside before we go into there. we're nice normal man show we're back we're back baby um it is so weird being here man oh you like you drive around for a little bit all the billboards are like this is the ai to rule all the ai use this for your cicd development pipeline like it's where am i even the airport is always like alien space you walk through the airport and it's like

19:51Luke Lafreniere:advertisements for like hosting stuff and like yeah like there was a there's a digital ocean

19:57Linus Sebastian:billboard yeah like billboards sure thing man like there's there's probably a tiny amount of people in bc at all that even know what digital ocean is like oh man it's it's very interesting being here it's very like you are palpably in nerd land uh oh yeah brother which is kind of cool but it's a weird space. And then you're driving around and you see like just Adobe building, Oracle building, NVIDIA building. I remember the first time, like years ago, the first time you and I were down here, I remember seeing the Zynga building and being like, what? Like the Facebook game company? Really? I guess they would have a headquarters somewhere.

20:42Linus Sebastian:Yep. Why not here, I guess. Sure. Anyways. Okay, back on topic. Proton 11. Yeah. Valve has released Proton 11, expanding some game compatibility, which is awesome, with certain titles including Universe Generator, The Golden Sword, DCS World Steam Edition. That will get some more nerds over to Linux for sure. Resident Evil, Resident Evil 2, Dino Crisis, Dino Crisis 2, From Dust, Metal Gear Survive, Warhammer Vermintide 2, Gothic 1, Classic, and X-Plane 12. What's a bigger deal is it includes an integration to FEX, I'm not sure, 2605 for ARM64 EC. Oh, that's cool. As well as several core dependencies.

21:29Linus Sebastian:I'm going to call it FEX. FEX is the compatibility layer responsible for the ability to play x86 games on ARM, like we talked about in our initial Steam Frame coverage. That is exciting.

21:41Luke Lafreniere:so i'm gonna say this because i don't know anything yet um but i hope that this means

21:50Linus Sebastian:steam frame is coming really soon oh i didn't see this as a time frame thing but that makes sense

21:57Luke Lafreniere:well they recently started updating some games with a works on frame badge okay proton 11 is here with effects update there's a new steam uh vr ui update yep so the things are like things are firing like every week there's a new um a new prerequisite for the steam frame launch that seems to kind of land and it's all kind of working its way up to a lot of the a lot of the initial steam machine stuff seems to be mostly resolved like they've got that red bar thing um that's getting patched really shortly. Uh, like we're, the dust is settling on steam machine and it looks like we're gearing up for steam frame.

22:42Luke Lafreniere:I am legit so excited for this thing. Uh, once I actually know anything, then I I'll have to, I'll have to clam up, but I don't have a shipping date. I don't have an availability day. People keep asking me, dude, it's crazy how much hype there is about steam frame i literally googled steam frame release date rumor i'm gonna i'm gonna see if i can find this again um frame coming in july is this the one hold on uh no this doesn't seem to be the one but i came across i came across a uh a discussion on reddit where something was pretty strongly upvoted that it must be coming pretty soon because Linus had marks on his face in a video that seemed to be indicative of that he was wearing the Steam frame recently for testing.

23:40Luke Lafreniere:I'm like, bro, I just had a mark on my face. You need to calm down. I do not have a Steam frame.

23:46Linus Sebastian:I think it was an early release version of the Steam frame.

23:48Luke Lafreniere:Yeah, sure. Sure thing.

23:50Linus Sebastian:I think they're right. I think they're right.

23:52Luke Lafreniere:Sure. Sure thing.

23:55Linus Sebastian:Now, what about our information on Half-Life 3?

23:58Luke Lafreniere:Yeah, yeah, for sure.

24:00Linus Sebastian:Well, that's releasing on...

24:06Linus Sebastian:Okay. Are you pretending to be looking it up? No. Linus and Luke, how are your current Linux experiences been going since the Linux challenge? I think it's actually been a while since we've talked about this. Are you still running it? Okay, we should, but I found it. You are still running it on.

24:19Luke Lafreniere:Hold on one sec. Any rumors about YouTubers reviewing the frame right now? This is from eight days ago. Are there currently any rumors before this? Okay. I like how the question's not even, are the rumors true? Just do they exist? Like people are so freaking hype for this thing. I heard LTT has it and loves it. I also heard he's convincing Valve to wait another month to stick it to the fans. Like only leak I found is Linus having some VR headset imprints on his forehead. Might've been the Pimax Dream Air. It wasn't that either. Like what, what do you guys, what are you guys talking about you're just the and to be clear like it's fine sure like you know as far as rumors about me go those are pretty those are pretty tame maybe it was the big screen beyond three i yeah must have been must have been i'm gonna get my big screen beyond three before luke even wears his big screen beyond two it's gonna be great um but just like seeing how how rabidly excited people are just to talk about this, just to even meme and post about it.

25:24Luke Lafreniere:I think the frame is going to completely eclipse the already smash hit success of the Steam Machine. Valve has another winner on their hands here. This is crazy.

25:39Linus Sebastian:Anyway, what were you going to say? So are you still running Linux anywhere, bro?

25:45Luke Lafreniere:uh yeah so i've been i've been i have transitioned off of pop os well it depends what you mean i am running a steam machine and i am also dailying a steam machine

26:02Luke Lafreniere:yeah see he's having a real hard time with this that's why i'm gonna remind him oh of an ad okay no i'm switching away from that i'm not endorsing roundup yeah why does the lan account always get roundup ads oh what is this i got two ads okay we're gonna have to buy premium for the wancho accounts don't do that i'm not spending money on that they use it once a week it's fine oh man two unskippables get out of here okay so So Jordan and Justin, with some guidance and a little bit of help from me, this was a team effort alongside, I think it was, was it Disappearing Inc. that flagged this thing for us?

26:54Luke Lafreniere:Or was it FreeGeek? I don't remember, but one of the local computer antiquity slash recycler people, I'm pretty sure it was disappearing ink, got their hands on one of the original steam machines that Valve seeded out to media, not including us. But that's fine. I can wait. I'm patient. And then we built the sickest little small form factor build in it that ended up just, oh man, being so good. Like it's so good. And the specs are so good. I think we ended up with, what was it? A 7800X3D and then a, I want to say it was a 9070 or a 9070XT or something like that. So that's what I'm actually using for my daily driver machine right now.

27:44Luke Lafreniere:I'm running SteamOS. It just gets like normal SteamOS updates. everything's working great the only thing that i don't have that a steam machine has is i don't have the built-in dongle for the steam controller but frankly i don't really care about that i i like the steam controller for what it is i think that valve did an outstanding job of executing on their vision for it but it's not something that i need at my desk where i already have a keyboard and mouse it's just not necessary for me so i don't care about that and then it also doesn't have support for CEC, but I'm using it as a desktop PC anyway.

28:17Luke Lafreniere:So that also doesn't matter for me. So it's way more powerful. It's louder. Um, but that doesn't matter because remember I have fiber optic cabling running through my home. So I just put it in the basement and then I don't have to look at it or think about it or listen to it. It's just, it's just a pristine, immaculate SteamOS experience and I am freaking loving it. It's a steam machine, but faster and better.

28:39Linus Sebastian:and uh and i've been how was the install of steam os uh it was kind of a pain in the butt but i

28:44Luke Lafreniere:didn't have to do it jordan did it that machine has literally just been sitting there ready for me and uh and i'm i'm loving it so for the first week of my daily driving steam machine challenge i was actually carrying my steam machine in my backpack to and from work so that it was the only computer i was using and then i wanted to like ride my motorcycle one day and i was like oh oh, it's such a pain with the steam machine because it's like on your back and the posture on my bike is like...

29:14Linus Sebastian:Yeah, yeah.

29:15Luke Lafreniere:Yeah, it's not comfortable to have a ton of weight on your back and I already have my tech sack in my bag and I was like, oh, I really don't want to weight. Why am I doing this? I should just have steam machine at home.

29:26Linus Sebastian:Because now it's almost less of daily steam machine now. It's more just daily steam OS.

29:32Luke Lafreniere:Yeah, and I spent the first week...

29:34Linus Sebastian:You're still spending a lot of time with steam machines.

29:35Luke Lafreniere:Yeah, I still spent the first week only with the steam machine which did make me notice some things i missed in my review yeah and honestly i think you know steam os is the truly interesting part of this whole situation

29:49Linus Sebastian:oh yeah in my opinion oh yeah so like that seems fine 100 but yeah that's wicked yeah yeah i was like especially after hearing your feedback about it i was pretty tempted to get one but man they're so expensive and i kind of wanted like a little bit more power yeah and i'm kind of in the just use the os build your own computer again camp so cec is an interesting

30:19Luke Lafreniere:thing because you have a desktop computer so there ain't no way you're planning to use your steam os machine as your desktop i'm thinking this would be a console right yeah home theater yeah So we're actually sourcing pretty much every CEC adapter that we can get our hands on right now for Short Circuit because I really want to solve this once and for all in my theater room. I'm playing around right now with the CEC adapter that Jordan got for this video that we did not get working properly on SteamOS at the time. it works pretty well on windows for me but it's like it's not a silver bullet either like i ran into a situation where something i'd never heard of before called a cec storm was causing my computer to wake up when other devices were chatting over cec so it turns out it's a it's a really weird architecture it's like it's like a ring topology or something or it's like it's more It's less like a switching architecture and it's more like a hub architecture where it just like blasts out shit.

31:29Luke Lafreniere:And then if the right shit hits the right fan, then shit gets real. Like it's just CEC is a mess. It's an absolute mess. And so I'm still kind of struggling with it. And every device has different degrees of customizability and control. like a device that does it really well is the nvidia shield it lets you really get in there and say okay allow this device to turn on other devices allow other devices to turn on this device wake other devices when this one turns on wake this device when other devices turn on or don't do those things you can you can configure all of those with a pretty significant degree of granularity but then my av receiver is just like cc on cc off what does that mean and you can't tell it on which inputs and outputs it's just like you gotta be kidding me you guys do this for a living this box costs like four thousand dollars are you have you got have you gone mad

32:39Luke Lafreniere:so it's just it's pretty um yeah it's pretty annoying uh sharaf 2k says just use the silver stone key fob sharaf 2k tell me you're not married without telling me you're not married like it's gotta be kid friendly it's gotta be like the wife and the girls wanna watch a movie otherwise literally no one will use it that's the whole point of cec is that it took this whole crappy multi-remote thing and solved it except that it's a giant piece of shit um man what a life goal that would be to like fix CEC if someone wants to do that like I'll invest I'm gonna say it right now if you can give me like a credible plan and like, like show you've done the work.

33:33Luke Lafreniere:I think I'm in, I think that could be my third investment. Crystal says, you know, girls can figure that out. Um, I'm, I'm, I'm a let you in on a little secret crystal. It's not that they can't figure it out. It's just that most of them don't give a shit and don't want to in my life. And I gotta, I gotta work around the people in my life i can't change what people what people are and what they're interested in

33:59Linus Sebastian:and what their preferences are they have the intelligence to do so they just don't

34:05Luke Lafreniere:those particular ones don't care that's right and in general if our demographics are anything to go by they're not they're not weird freaks so we do need to have solutions for people who don't care and don't want to figure this stuff out and don't want to deal with multiple remotes it's it's just that simple i i know some people do care but i don't get to pick and i know the names and i know the preferences of everybody my wife would have over for a girls night and none of them include determining which hdmi input is correct literally zero they're not interested and so so i gotta i you know i that that's the thing that's how that's how consideration works right is i don't the golden rule is not really that great you know do unto others as you would have others do unto you it's like no actually do unto others as they would have you do unto them like that's the that's the right way as a reminder yeah in case people get confused he's talking about the the women in his life of course yeah of course and also the demographics on the channel again it's not like it's not a great mystery there's zero doesn't mean there's zero not as calm but it means the odds it means the the odds are and remember i mentioned like my kids too and some kids are super tech savvy too and don't mind it emma's better with the tv than i am because i watch so little tv that actually doesn't surprise me at all yeah not one bit luke yeah like i i would be i would actually be surprised if you could even find the tv remote

35:43Linus Sebastian:in your house uh do you know where she keeps it the only reason why i can is because she got this really cool manipulatable like sculpture of two hands where you can move the fingers and she has it like positioned so that the remote like beautifully gets held by the hand holy shit

36:02Luke Lafreniere:I just had the coolest idea Okay No, no, wait Oh boy Hear me out Okay, you know how Yvonne does like craft night sometimes? Okay Okay You know those things that you can do Like with kids or like as a couple Where you create like a mold of your hands And then you like You put plaster in it and you like Make your hands You and Emma should make your hands like like a next level one of those holding a tv for the remote because because that way that way you could have like uh like a piece of decor that's also like uh like a special like memory thing and then yeah and then yeah luke and then luke can find the remote that'd be dude that'd be so freaking cool uh yeah i mean it sounds like a fun craft night

36:56Linus Sebastian:I just feel like

36:58Luke Lafreniere:I knew we were going to get to craft night at some point

37:01Linus Sebastian:I have to be there because my hand has to be molded that's clever I was going to say I feel like she would just immediately use the like if I ask where the remote is she's like it's in your hand nice that's hilarious

37:16Luke Lafreniere:that's great you're already holding it smart guy

37:21Linus Sebastian:that's not bad alright yeah sure that sounds fun

37:24Luke Lafreniere:just be happy that she didn't ask you to mold your butt where's the remote

37:34Luke Lafreniere:okay that would be a pretty funny remote holder too just like a cheek

37:45Luke Lafreniere:just on the side table just a pair of cheeks you know what you know what that could end up being is like a dirty cooking spoon holder. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

37:58Linus Sebastian:It like shrinks down.

38:00Luke Lafreniere:That'd be sick. Oh, dude. Okay, so we make like, instead of just doing like sentimental hand things, we make like hand things that do stuff. Yeah. Oh, okay.

38:15Linus Sebastian:It's actually not bad.

38:16Luke Lafreniere:I'm actually messaging Yvonne now. I'm messaging Yvonne. Okay. All right. You want to pick a new topic?

38:25Linus Sebastian:I just wanted to say, I realized while sitting here saying that like, oh yeah, I'd rather kind of build my own steam machine just to make it a little bit stronger. That this finally gives me an excuse to build in a Fractal Terra. This isn't in no way sponsored by Fractal, but I always loved the Fractal North and the Fractal Terra is super cool. And the green Fractal Terra with the wood accent is just like... Yeah, that looks nice. beautiful and has that you know appeal that we were just talking about like i think emma would be much more okay with one of these sitting in the the home theater like center console thing

39:02Luke Lafreniere:than uh most other options it's so funny how the the terra with wood accents went from being like unique to being the case that everyone buys i had actually built in like four of them before I even realized that I had built in four of them just because everyone and their dog was picking them for their ultimate upgrades.

39:23Linus Sebastian:Oh, yeah, that makes sense. It's a really nice case. Oh, cool. Yeah.

39:27Luke Lafreniere:It's a great case.

39:29Linus Sebastian:And I love the North, but the North is huge. Oh, I don't want it in this case. I generally don't mind computers that are decently large, but at the home theater setup, no. If I can avoid it, no.

39:43Luke Lafreniere:Yeah, no, you don't want something that big for like a living room. It's like, what are you in college still? Like, come on. Yeah. Even with the wood accents, it's just, it's not for, it doesn't go in the living room. If it was next to a computer desk that is in a shared space, 100 % valid. I've got one as my workstation PC. You can't put a giant thing like that. It ain't going in the living room. No.

40:07Linus Sebastian:Hell no. Beautiful case though. Yeah, I agree. Anyways, okay. You said next topic.

40:16Linus Sebastian:let's see well okay yeah what what no no no i'm not gonna do it i don't even understand why it's

40:23Luke Lafreniere:in the doc so i'm not gonna do it do it no i want to know do it come on okay because i'm confused

40:27Linus Sebastian:but i haven't read the whole topic intel releases major driver update for windows 11 oh yeah how is this a land topic no this is a land topic intel released new wi-fi and bluetooth drivers wow that include enhancements aligned with when microsoft's driver quality initiative initiative or DQI. Microsoft recently told Intel, AMD, Qualcomm and other partners that drivers need to stop hurting Windows 11's reliability and reputation. Damn. Yeah.

40:56Luke Lafreniere:We talked about this

40:57Linus Sebastian:on WAN Show. I do remember this now. DQI is Microsoft's attempt to raise the floor and includes Microsoft authored class drivers.

41:07Luke Lafreniere:Less unnecessary kernel mode interference and more user mode drivers where possible. This is good.

41:13Linus Sebastian:That is good.

41:14Luke Lafreniere:this is real progress this is actual shipping drivers from intel that are designed to make windows 11 less of a steaming pile of this is good no that is good okay yeah that was it i just

41:26Linus Sebastian:so the the the point of note is that someone actually did it yeah which is great real actual

41:32Luke Lafreniere:that matters concrete action is happening and it's fast i mean they announced this driver quality initiative what like a couple months ago or something like that yeah that was pretty quick So we are already getting, it's, it's the only question is, why did it take you so long, Microsoft, to care about this? You know, no, no, no, I'm not going to dwell on the past. Good job, progress. Okay, sorry, go ahead, Luke.

41:53Linus Sebastian:Good job, progress. Also, we figured out what you're tracking. So see you later.

42:02Linus Sebastian:you know the the dqi group probably had no idea i don't know you know maybe they're cool

42:09Luke Lafreniere:huge companies like that it's yeah you'll get these groups or these individuals that really do have the best intentions like yeah really deeply care about the user experience and then i'm sure they are reading stuff like that over on windows latest and making the exact same face that we are like what what is even the point of the good work that i'm doing over here when you're gonna go and do that with it like come on man yeah um hotspot temperature sensor on nvidia's

42:41Linus Sebastian:blackwell gpus is still accessible if you have access to nvidia's internal mods tool okay since

42:48Luke Lafreniere:that headline was written uh this has gotten a little bit more complicated uh let me do the read for this one just in case they missed something when the rtx 50 series came out reviewers noticed that hotspot temperatures were missing from tools like hardware info and msi afterburner and while it looked like nvidia had gotten rid of the feature like it was no longer reported by the die turns out the sensor was still there it just wasn't accessible through the usual software Well, Paulo Gomes, I assume, a Brazilian repair technician and YouTuber, investigated a customer's Gigabyte RTX 5070 Ti that was mysteriously throttling despite showing normal GPU temperatures in Windows.

43:34Luke Lafreniere:In Linux, Gomes was able to use NVIDIA's internal mods, so modular diagnostic software, to discover the hidden hotspot sensor was hitting 107 degrees Celsius, even though the standard tools reported only around 68 degrees celsius average gpu temperatures and this was exactly why enthusiasts cared so much about being able to access hotspot temperatures because it would reveal if a bad mount or a bad pace job was making it so that overall the die was cool enough but the hottest zones the the most compute intensive parts of the chip were overheating. He disassembled the card, found poor thermal paste coverage.

44:20Luke Lafreniere:Okay, yeah, there you go. So that's exactly what I was talking about. He reapplied the paste and confirmed that the hotspot temperature dropped and the throttling disappeared. Linus comment, oh, okay, so they did put that in here. This seems to have been starting to make its way into regular tools. So I think hardware info, 50 series hotspot. Hold on, I'm just gonna Google this live. I think, yes hardware info this is two days ago according to video cards adds rtx 50 hotspot temperature reporting rtss can display it now too so i'm a little frustrated because while i'm not sure that nvidia ever said formally that it was removed they certainly didn't do anything to

45:11Luke Lafreniere:correct the speculation that it had been removed um and it's a really useful tool for for diagnosing especially if you're if you're doing aftermarket cooling like mounting something like a full coverage water block can can be a little bit hazardous because there's so many surface level components like it'll it'll directly it'll directly cover with thermal pads. Although, again, that's a great example of why this matters because if you have too thick of a thermal pad, it's making contact with all these other components on the board like your memory modules with your VRMs. And if you screw up something or you put on too thick of a thermal pad or you don't tighten something down enough, it can contact the die enough.

45:59Luke Lafreniere:Remember, this is a water block. So it's moving heat away really fast. So it can contact the die enough to carry heat away, but it can not be in good contact with one small area that could be a very crucial spot that you know uh like paul like paulo saw that could cause the card to thermal throttle and if we don't have access to that temperature sensor then we have no way if that knowing if that's happening so taking away useful tools that help us diagnose hardware is just like not cool apparently roughly

46:35Linus Sebastian:two-ish years ago Roman from Derbauer asked NVIDIA about it not being there anymore and got a response of saying it was no longer accurate and no longer relevant. He obviously you know had thoughts about that but that was what they said.

47:00Luke Lafreniere:Oh man.

47:03Linus Sebastian:yeah there's some comments saying effectively exactly this but i had the thought of like man telling telling der bauer that some thermal measurement doesn't matter is a

47:13Luke Lafreniere:what if they knew who he was i mean if it's not accurate then that's one thing but this this proves though that they're taking action on the behavior of the gpu based on this number yeah well okay which one is it nvidia is it inaccurate and irrelevant or is it actionable

47:38Linus Sebastian:because it cannot be both there's a lot of speculation yeah but it makes sense to me uh but it is still obviously speculation saying that maybe you know the the modern cards run really hot and maybe it would have been bad for um perceptions or sales or or marketing or whatever to have these hotspot sensors blasting out crazy numbers bad for marketing is the only real reason that i can think of for them to no longer relevant to the interest of selling more graphics cards maybe not no longer relevant to the user i see but yeah this is just one thing i found i don't know if they've had a more recent statement on that i doubt it i think everyone

48:24Luke Lafreniere:just kind of accepted it and moved on.

48:26Linus Sebastian:Moved on, yeah.

48:28Luke Lafreniere:Well, either way, I'm glad to see that this is out in the open now because it's a very useful tool.

48:41Luke Lafreniere:Speaking of useful tools, oh, never mind. I will do this after. But it's really cool. I'll tell you in a minute. First, I'm supposed to do the CW announcement.

48:56Luke Lafreniere:this week we launched the investment disclosure t-shirt oh boy how do i i'm not going to be able to screen share and also there it is it's the one i'm wearing it's pretty cool it's designed to save me time and effort because if i just wear this shirt then surely uh the investment disclosure will be all done. Amazing.

49:20Linus Sebastian:Are you actually going to do that?

49:21Luke Lafreniere:No, no, I'm still going to try and remember. I just, I very occasionally do forget. So, we were like, haha, why don't we just do a shirt that's like investment disclosure and then if you forget, then whatever. This is great. Went and got a framework laptop for the shoot. Anywho, now available lttstore.com, printed on our classic polyblend tea, soft, breathable everyday fit high quality print that lasts uh this is a shirt about investment disclosure that's it that's the bit fantastic uh thank you cw team and if you guys were looking for an excuse to pick one up then hey while we're live is a great time to do it all you got to do is add an item to your cart and you'll see checkout messages these are the way to interact with the WAN show.

50:12Luke Lafreniere:We don't do Twitch bits or Super Chats or anything like that because we think when you throw money at your screen, you should get high quality merchandise and apparel in return, not just, you know, internet peen. So when you go ahead and enter your message here and check out, it will go to producer Dan. There he is. Who will curate your message or who will reply to it or who will pop it up on the stream. Do you want to show them what it looks like when you curate it, Dan? Yeah, sure. Well, I mean, I can't show it to them, but I can demonstrate it. Nice. I think. Solid. Hi, DLL. What's something the audience thinks is easy about running LMG that's actually quite hard?

50:52Luke Lafreniere:And conversely, what looks hard but is easy? P.S. UV hoodie, so good in UK heatwave. More colors, please. Scheduling. Scheduling is by far the least intuitively difficult or intuitive difficulty aspect of lmg like all the moving pieces camera operators uh you know getting the getting the the hardware you know tested and in the right place with the right software loaded on it um like a perfect example is this this is the razor fold we shot a short circuit for this today and compared to when we used to do a short circuit for a phone a couple of years ago like back then we would just have the phone it would come in and it would just like appear on set and then when we sat down to shoot the video it would like not be set up it wouldn't be logged into the wi-fi so you'd waste like 20 minutes just dinking around like signing into google accounts or in some cases it wouldn't have any battery left um so you'd have to like plug it in and wait around for it to charge or like go shoot something else so getting all those all those little pieces um pre-organized like nowadays when this phone arrives on set it's signed in it's connected to the wi-fi it's got a couple apps on it that you might want to run like if you decide to run a game on it it has like fortnite on it so that we can just you know have some over the shoulder gaming you know to to cut in while we talk about our uh like our gaming performance measurements and stuff like that um i think that's the i think that's the biggest challenge that people kind of take for granted and it's always in flux it's always thrown for a loop like a perfect example of this would be when our steam machine arrived we we had a bunch of other stuff on the go but it just arrived like brands do not consider that maybe you have a life you just you're just i don't know you're just a thing they might be right but like come on bro you don't have to tell me like that you send it over and magically content appears and that's all they kind of know a lot of them some some are really good others just completely kind of take what you do for granted and the difficulties of what you do for granted it's like well we did all the hard work we made the product and all you have to do is glaze it like come on how how long could that take right um so that's um yeah i'm gonna go with that i'm gonna go with that yeah so we just had to drop everything we were doing so that we could put together and execute on a content plan for steam machine and actually i don't think i've said this publicly yet but like bravo to our team like putting that together we had one steam machine sometimes for like a really big launch.

53:54Luke Lafreniere:We managed to get our hands on more than one so that like labs can be testing it while we're shooting the short circuit unboxing. And then it can, that one can make its way to someone to have like, you know, the experiential daily driving experience with it. And then we get the labs numbers in and then that one goes in for B-roll while the host is holding the other one for A-roll. Like when you have a lot going on, it can be really useful to have more than one. But we managed to get a short for LTT, a long form for LTT, a follow-up long form where we did like a steam machine killer and compared it against it for LTT and a long form short circuit all like within a day or two of launch.

54:30Luke Lafreniere:It was pretty crazy. The team did an outstanding job.

54:33Linus Sebastian:Yeah, chat has a good question. Why is the smiley face in Disclosure like dead or something?

54:41Luke Lafreniere:I don't know. Don't worry about it. Don't overthink it.

54:45Linus Sebastian:Okay.

54:46Luke Lafreniere:Why is this a dollar sign? Who knows? It's a mystery.

54:49Linus Sebastian:Also, when did it? Well, I mean, That one makes sense. Stonks. Why did the... When was this first released on the store? Today. Wow, I think... Am I reading this right? Your regular large is already sold out?

55:09Luke Lafreniere:I don't know. Maybe?

55:17Luke Lafreniere:Good chat.

55:19Linus Sebastian:Nice. Nice. How about another?

55:22Luke Lafreniere:Oh, not on the global store. Largest in stock on the global store.

55:26Linus Sebastian:I'm on the global store.

55:27Luke Lafreniere:Okay. I don't know then.

55:29Linus Sebastian:It says it will not be restocked.

55:33Luke Lafreniere:Oh, it won't be restocked, but that doesn't mean they're all gone. I think.

55:37Linus Sebastian:But it doesn't say they won't be restocked on everything.

55:41Luke Lafreniere:Um, all right. Well, I will flag that for the team. okay good chat nice nice all right dan uh oh yeah this one's for luke yo what exhibit or creator are you most excited to see this year at open sauce did you bring anything to show off yourself hoping to be there sunday myself i didn't bring anything to show off myself but the creator

56:05Linus Sebastian:warehouse team is here and they brought um some cool stuff they brought the fire they brought yeah they brought some pretty sick stuff. They brought, I think, two different super large screwdrivers. I think they might both be 3X scale. I'm not sure. I think one of them is a translucent one and one of them is the just normal screwdriver. They also brought, my favorite thing that they brought really is they have like the history of the normal standard screwdriver, the scribe driver the pen a pen uh and then also the precision screwdriver um and they have those on like big boards where you can see the different prototype versions along the way and not like

56:48Luke Lafreniere:pictures of them like they have the actual ones yeah they have the they have the like the like lathed out shaft that sebastian put a plastic like generic pen top on and just taped it on

57:03Linus Sebastian:it's the like proof of i had never seen that before i saw that today that prototype is actually

57:09Luke Lafreniere:sick it's the actual it's the actual one that he handed me and said hey what do you think yeah which is pretty cool the one there was not two yeah very cool they're there they're literally

57:23Linus Sebastian:physically there so like if you're talking about it they might even like pull it out and kind of show you more up close and stuff uh so that's wicked they have some of the actual engineers there um uh which is which is cool because you can talk to them it kind of fits the theme of the show a little bit and then they're selling a shirt and the like nuclear green uv reactive screwdriver and then they have some deal going on i don't remember the exact details i think it's if you spend over 50 bucks you get a coupon for free shipping on the store and the reason why they did that what totally makes sense to me they didn't want to bring down every freaking product we have because that's kind of unfeasible.

58:03Luke Lafreniere:It's like a thousand SKUs or something. I forget what the number is.

58:06Linus Sebastian:So they were like, okay, well, we'll make it so you can kind of have shopped everything by you can just get free shipping instead. So that was a cool, seemed like a pretty smart idea. Yeah, so I did not personally bring anything, but LMG did through Creative Warehouse.

58:29Linus Sebastian:particular booth or particular creator I'm excited to meet honestly every year I meet random new creators that I've never heard of sometimes that are like massive like gone is the time where as like a casual YouTube viewer you would just know the top 100 YouTubers like not only does is the top 100 YouTubers completely irrelevant to me at this point in time but because who cares but but also there's like huge creators doing amazing things that I've just never heard of all the time and I spend a lot of time on YouTube and there's not huge creators doing amazing things I've never heard of so I just have fun meeting people doing cool stuff on YouTube um in terms of favorite booth my favorite area tends to be the like hobbyist rocketry area which apparently NASA is just here officially this year and they brought heat shielding from, I think it's Artemis 1 and Artemis 2 which is super cool, so I'm excited to check that out.

59:29Linus Sebastian:Yeah, usually it's the rocketry stuff. Last year there was a really, really cool booth where you played Counter-Strike but they made it so that a bunch of the grenade effects had a real-life equivalent.

59:41Luke Lafreniere:It was like a leaf blower and things and smoke machines and flashbangs. Yeah.

59:47Linus Sebastian:Yeah, that was a lot of fun. They did like the inverse for an incendiary grenade. So if you walked into an incendiary grenade, they would spray water on you. If I remember correctly, if you walked into a smoke grenade, it would shoot a leaf blower in your face. And you had to like deal with that. What was the flashbang? Do you remember a flashbang?

1:00:08Luke Lafreniere:It was a big strobe light like xenon discharge pulse.

1:00:11Linus Sebastian:It's this crazy light that makes it difficult to look at your screen. That was fun. But yeah, man, I don't know. I think it's impossible to look forward to anything in particular at OpenSauce other than just OpenSauce. It's just so different every time.

1:00:27Luke Lafreniere:I've never been. This will be my first one.

1:00:29Linus Sebastian:I think you'll have fun if you can move at all. You might want to bring some form of disguise for your face. There are multiple creators that do that here. I'm not kidding.

1:00:40Luke Lafreniere:Really?

1:00:41Linus Sebastian:Yeah, I would probably recommend that. There's just a ton of fans around. You won't be able to go anywhere. Yeah.

1:00:45Luke Lafreniere:I don't even really do maker stuff as much.

1:00:48Linus Sebastian:No, but this is... It's not going to matter. I can't move. Yeah. Oh.

1:00:52Luke Lafreniere:Yeah.

1:00:53Linus Sebastian:You're not going to be able to move. You might want to bring something.

1:00:57Luke Lafreniere:I need to be able to move. I'm down for just the one day we're shooting a video. We actually have kind of a fun video concept. It's going to be like a break my cable sort of concept. and not like like use a hammer no no no no relax it's okay um but basically i'm gonna go find cool the coolest stuff i can find that people brought that needs a usb cable and then i'm gonna like see if my cable can can make it work which it should because it's true spec um and then basically it's just an excuse to highlight like a half a dozen cool projects at open sauce that need a

1:01:35Linus Sebastian:cable sounds like a great idea and legitimately we have had multiple booth people because it was an industry day today yeah run up to the booth being like can i buy a cable really oh yeah did

1:01:48Luke Lafreniere:anyone keep track of who any of them are because it'd be great for me to pop in on them tomorrow

1:01:52Linus Sebastian:i think i think uh someone knows was uh i know i was like they were having a bunch of issues with the creator shuttles today so this morning when i went to the event i got an uber and i just stuffed a bunch of random other creators in it. And when I had to come back to do Land Show, which I'm obviously not at the Crater Hotel, but when I had to go back to get my laptop and stuff, I did the same thing because the shuttles were also not working again. And while I'm in there, I'm just like whipping stuff on my pockets like, we make all these different things. Look at our pens, look at our fidget spinners.

1:02:25Linus Sebastian:I mean, have you trapped in the car? But it's, I mean, it's it's interesting because the you know i i was talking to someone earlier today about this of the like 2010s era of like every single youtuber is just selling one to two shirts and one to two hoodies at a time they're all probably from teespring like that is over and lots of people are getting into products now so every single year since i've been coming to open sauce the like behind the scenes conversations from the creators has been for everyone not just for for me or us has been like what's going on in the product space what are you working on what are you thinking about how are you approaching it how do you work with manufacturers how do you like it's a ton of it is product stuff because that's where the external funding seems to be going for a ton of creators and it's really interesting because i was talking to someone recently about like you know if you tried to make if you weren't a youtuber and you tried to make the ltt screwdriver

1:03:22Luke Lafreniere:and get it on the market oh my god i don't know how i'd do it it'd be so difficult yeah and the

1:03:27Linus Sebastian:The screwdriver is a little bit maybe more like mass appeal, but there are some YouTuber products that if you were a standard company, it would be so hard to make this niche product really make sense because it would be so difficult to actually hit a huge portion of people in that niche. But there's market data out right now that as the generations progress, more and more people are doing purchasing decisions based on online creators. Gen Z is at 41%. And if you are a creator within a niche, you already have the attention of the whole niche. So it might make something that that niche has wanted for a long time and actually viable product because of your existence.

1:04:11Luke Lafreniere:It's almost like people followed you and glommed onto you because they had common interests and alignment in terms of what they want.

1:04:26Linus Sebastian:So if there's something that that community wants, you might be able to make it. And because of your natural marketing of already having that audience, you can make products and product lines potentially make sense that might not have otherwise, which is just super interesting. So it's a lot of the behind the scenes conversations are about stuff like that. Genuinely, most of the conversations that people have with me at OpenSauce are about like our stuff that we make. That's hilarious.

1:04:55Luke Lafreniere:else which is interesting so you know it's funny i actually shot a video today uh just doing a tier list of of science and tech creator merch i and again i shouldn't be using the word merch i don't want to use the word merch to describe our products because they're not merch anymore and frankly none of the things that i checked out today were merch dude you go back 10 years ago and

1:05:20Linus Sebastian:that would have been unheard of t-shirts hoodies and maybe one water bottle yep and now it's a ton

1:05:25Luke Lafreniere:of really unique very interesting dude i had a barbecue scrubber a meat thermometer so those were very those were those aligned extremely well i cooked my meat and then i cleaned my barbecue with creator products uh i had an end table that was in the shape of a of a like a like a like a sewing thread uh spool i had no no no i'm not bottom bobbins a little one um it was a it was the shape of a spool oh the big one yeah um i had although a bobbin ottoman to go with it would be amazing so no one if you're watching uh what else did we what else did we have going on i don't uh oh dude the the green the green brothers are involved in like laundry detergent It was like a collab with technology connections.

1:06:15Luke Lafreniere:I was like, okay. Oh, that's amazing. Yep. That's perfect. Yep.

1:06:24Linus Sebastian:Wait, is that out? I remember hearing about that. Oh, I don't know. Well, I have it.

1:06:35Luke Lafreniere:Wait, did I say, did I say, I said dishwasher, right?

1:06:39Linus Sebastian:I think, I think you said laundry, but. Sorry, not laundry, dishwasher.

1:06:43Luke Lafreniere:Dishwasher detergent. Dishwasher detergent. Sorry. Sorry, guys. Dishwasher. I said laundry. Sorry. Sorry. Oh, apparently both are out. Okay, good. Making sure I'm not getting that wrong. Yeah, so the one that I checked out is the dishwasher detergent. Yeah, very cool.

1:06:58Linus Sebastian:That's awesome.

1:06:59Luke Lafreniere:Heck yeah. Oh, I was supposed to say one more thing for the Creator Warehouse part of the show, callouts. We have our end of season apparel sale with discounts up to 40 % off running right now. So it's a great time to pick up some underwear, the lightweight packable jacket, the lawsuit hoodie. This one's particularly on topic right now. Excuse me. Yeah, so go check it out. that's at just if you go to LTT store, I think it's the, yep, it's the second banner in the, in the banner carousel there. Just feel free, feel free to browse. There's lots of good stuff in there. All right. Oh, wait, Dan, was that only one comp?

1:07:50Luke Lafreniere:No, you did too. Oh, nice. Okay. Thank you. You're actually ahead of schedule or schedule. I don't know what you North Americans say anymore. I have lost the understanding of which is the wrong one. It's schedule. Schedule. Yes. Like Jeff. Gotcha. Yeah.

1:08:07Linus Sebastian:It's a silent beginning of the whole word. Yeah.

1:08:09Luke Lafreniere:Thank you, John. Continue. Ouch. Oh, that hurt. Okay. What do you want to talk about next? Should we talk about YouTube's class action lawsuit? I,

1:08:22Linus Sebastian:yeah, honestly, I was looking at that. Uh, yeah, let's do it. Let's do it. proposed class action has hit Google stating that YouTube Premium is false advertising because they market ad-free, but you will still see sponsored segments in videos. Specifically the baked-in ads that creators include. The lawsuit is citing other claims in YouTube's marketing, such as no interruptions or most videos are ad-free in the case of Premium Lite.

1:08:54Luke Lafreniere:so our discussion question is do you think there's an argument to be made here for this class action because clearly google is not serving the ads and not profiting from them but they're also representing the service that they are providing as an experience that people are not really having like i just i with my built-in ad block like i'm aware of you know if i'm watching oversimplified or whatever i'm aware that there's like a giant two-minute ad read in the middle of it or whatever and i'm like tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap and and like i don't um like it doesn't bother me but also if you don't have that ad block in your brain um yeah i can see i can see encountering that and going well what am i even paying for then well youtube premium has built in ad skip yeah but i don't think and also i think the precedent

1:09:58Linus Sebastian:here is not that and the re the argument that i would make uh is that like on on all ad free platforms that i know of there's still um and what is it called product placement advertisements and lots of other forms of advertisements. Just because it's not full screen roles doesn't mean there isn't other forms of advertisements. So that has been true for a very long time. There's also been native integrations on other platforms that are ad free for a very long time or non-native integrations, I guess. I don't know. I'm losing the terminology. But when the hosts talk about a thing instead of it being like a cutaway to an ad, that has been true on other platforms for a while like a plug you mean yeah yeah exactly and yeah i don't know i i as a very long-term premium user myself ad skip bro like what's the problem yeah because

1:11:01Luke Lafreniere:it does the way that youtube does that is they they put up a prompt to skip frequently skipped chunks of the video, right?

1:11:11Linus Sebastian:Yeah.

1:11:12Luke Lafreniere:Which generally corresponds to almost always the read.

1:11:16Linus Sebastian:Because the way to do it before that was if you looked at the timeline of the video, it gave you this like waveform and the waveform was essentially a retention graph. And you would look at the dip and then this like massive surge. And the massive surge was because people would click on that. So that was just the old form of it was you would just very clearly see where the ad ended by They're looking at the waveform of retention. And then they added, as people are pointing out, a little white dot, which is the end of the frequently skipped area. So you can just click on it on the timeline. Or there's also a button that shows up in the corner that says jump forward or jump whatever.

1:11:56Linus Sebastian:I don't know. And it'll just skip it for you. So, like, I don't know. I understand the argument that the class action is making is that the ad is there at all. Not that it isn't easily skippable. But I do think there's quite a bit of precedent for it being the type of thing that they're talking about is platform inserted, unskippable, like pre-rolls, mid-rolls, whatever. Not stuff that's baked into content naturally by the user that generated that content. I'm going to both sides this one.

1:12:32Luke Lafreniere:I like if YouTube says in their marketing, no interruptions, right? I could see that both ways. On the one hand, as a viewer who's, you know, getting a two minute read for, oh man, I'm trying to think of what's that, what's a company that advertises on YouTube a bunch. Honey. Thanks for that. Sure. Let's go with honey. You know, I'm getting this, this long read about, you know, honey or whatever. I have been, I've been interrupted. But on the flip side, YouTube has delivered the content that that creator uploaded in its entirety to you with no interruptions. How is it, how is it their problem or even their role to decide what to serve you and what not to serve you?

1:13:21Linus Sebastian:I think an interruption in the perspective of YouTube is them interrupting the video that you are watching by inserting an ad. They're not doing that. They're not. Yeah. The video that you are watching is just becoming an ad. It's uninterrupted. Very easily skippable. Yep. So I don't think the interruption thing, I think a lot of it depends on like, where are you placing the perspective in this conversation?

1:13:52Luke Lafreniere:Yeah.

1:13:53Linus Sebastian:I mean, Flowplane isn't ad free then because, you know, WAN Show has sponsors and product places and it's got to get that dough for me.

1:14:00Luke Lafreniere:Yeah, exactly. Just like, I mean, I could tell you all about TrueSpec Cables on LTTstore.com.

1:14:07Linus Sebastian:And that's on FullPlay now.

1:14:08Luke Lafreniere:They're super flexible. They support, you know, very high power and data rates and are designed to be durable and UV resistant if you like using them in your car, for instance. TrueSpec Cables, LTTstore.com. Right, like, should YouTube cut that out? if somebody pays for premium on youtube should they not see that and this is actually a really good question from sydney broke it over in floatplane chat if the entire video is a sponsored video should youtube not serve it then to premium viewers what is it what exactly is it that they're asking for like what should google do you know this is interesting i don't know if we

1:14:58Linus Sebastian:say anywhere that floatplane is ad free actually no we don't it doesn't tend to have ads like there's usually a floatplane cut not usually it's always i think we try there's a floatplane cut that doesn't have the sponsor spot in it to the point where some people have actually complained because they think the more creative ones uh they actually want to see it which is kind of funny um but i'm looking through and you know i might be wrong this one might have it somewhere well Well, we leave it up to the creator. Yeah, because the platform wouldn't say it. Yeah. Because we leave it up to the creator, like you said.

1:15:32Linus Sebastian:But then I don't think the Linus Tech Tips plans actually say, hey, there's no ads, even though we do cut them out.

1:15:38Luke Lafreniere:Well, we've tended towards a promise less, deliver more approach. Because we ran into trouble in the earlier days sometimes when we would promise more and then someone would make a mistake or it would not be viable for some reason or another. or we would, the business reality would change and we'd have to backtrack. And it's a lot easier for us to just under-promise and over-deliver as best we can versus like promising the world and then f***ing it up sometimes.

1:16:10Linus Sebastian:Yeah. Unless it's full-sponsored videos like AMD Upgrades. Yeah, that might be why we just don't use the verbiage.

1:16:17Luke Lafreniere:This is really interesting just seeing. Now, obviously there's a bit of a sampling bias here because this is coming from people who subscribe on float plane, which is like a very support the creators platform. Like you, you get extras and we'll actually, we've got some really good extras this week. So we'll talk about that a little bit later, but you get extras. But other than that, it's just like throwing coffee money at us to help us support the team and, and build the platform. But, but seeing the conversation in here, like, man, this, this blows, this is a dumb lawsuit. This, are they trying to, you know, destroy creators?

1:16:52Luke Lafreniere:It's like, way to go. This is dumb. YouTube doesn't create sponsor spots. This is basically just saying, you know, screw the creators, but I don't know. Like, it's really interesting seeing the hostility toward this lawsuit when, I mean, you must remember this, Luke, from back in the garage days, how angry people in the community would be that we had the audacity to try to make a living at this.

1:17:21Linus Sebastian:literally any form of advertisement whatsoever or the video being monetized at all yeah and it's youtube monetization was on because you still just turn it off and there would actually be no ads which was psychotic that that was possible on the platform i just want to say that was crazy i don't know how they ever thought that was gonna work but whatever sounds good thanks google uh

1:17:46Luke Lafreniere:uh yeah but yeah mr assister makes a really good point like as much as i am obviously coming at this from a pro creator standpoint i've got three children oh he's not there to ding me whatever he said it he said oh whoops i pressed a button good lord what am i doing um so yeah i'm coming at it from a pro creator like perspective um but i actually agree with mr assister here this feels like when cell phone companies advertise unlimited data it's like yeah it's not actually unlimited and everyone understands what they mean by that and there's an argument to be made that it's unlimited but like no one forced them to say that nobody forced youtube to say no interruptions they could have just they could have just said it in a because by the time youtube premium existed so did in video sponsor reads so it's not like this was some new thing that came about after the

1:18:41Linus Sebastian:fact this is a perspective conversation and i understand the argument you're making but

1:18:46Luke Lafreniere:from their perspective there is no interruption no i get it i see both sides 100 but i don't think the unlimited data thing is to me the unlimited data thing feels more egregious well i understand the comparison you're making in a lot of cases it's unlimited it's just at a it throttles to such a speed that effectively you could figure out how much data it is because it would be the maximum data rate over the amount of time again they just actually don't interrupt

1:19:12Linus Sebastian:videos like actually they don't not that it like it's not that they don't interrupt 80 videos a week and then they'll start interrupting them a little bit like no they just actually never interrupt videos i get it the the interruption is coming from the ugc on their platform but they

1:19:28Luke Lafreniere:don't say they don't say we won't interrupt the video they say no interruptions which is a is a broader statement than they had to make so he he's right that they didn't have to make such a broad sweeping statement they could have said no youtube ads and that would have been true so i i totally i totally i can both sides this one pretty pretty comfortably i could sit and argue with myself about this for the next 10 minutes yeah pretty easily um to be clear i don't think this lawsuit going anywhere like i don't think you're going to be able to to to make this argument in court that youtube is somehow liable for the user-generated content that they are to your

1:20:13Linus Sebastian:point not interrupting right like yeah like google isn't so archangel of death hell of a name in full plane chat said no interruptions added to the creator's videos yeah they could add some like they could make it a longer qualifying sentence yeah uh to me i personally i think you know i don't think anyone actually thinks red bull gives you wings i mean that was a problem though yeah but like maybe we don't need to worry about that get hurt or something

1:20:46Luke Lafreniere:hold on what's the actual history because i don't know how much of that is just like urban legend gives you wings lawsuit here we go oh wow ai overview but hear me out in 2014 red bull agreed to pay$13 million to settle a class action false advertising lawsuit. Filed by consumer Benjamin Carathers in 2013, the suit claimed the slogan Red Bull gives you wings and the drinks marketing misled customers about the beverage's energy and performance benefits compared to standard caffeine sources. So like... Ah...

1:21:31Linus Sebastian:That's insane.

1:21:32Luke Lafreniere:They didn't admit any fault. And this is one of those cases where, yeah, the corporation should, even if they settle, they should not have to admit any fault.

1:21:45Luke Lafreniere:But if Red Bull can get in trouble for Red Bull gives you wings, then I think YouTube might be, maybe could be in more trouble than I thought here.

1:21:53Linus Sebastian:Maybe. Well, I think the safest thing is to just never say anything.

1:21:56Luke Lafreniere:Well, I think the safest thing is for YouTube to say YouTube premium gives you wings. And then anyone stupid enough to believe it can go jump off a building. I like that. It solves itself, really, if you think about it.

1:22:08Linus Sebastian:I do think they could, you know, I think they could have more clarifying language. I just, I also worry about like, okay, is every advertisement going to be a, I don't have a bleep button here, but a legal document at this point? Like, I mean, yeah, I don't think anyone wants that.

1:22:26Luke Lafreniere:Like, that's the thing that I think people got to ask themselves. Like, do you want that? like there's a there's a there's a balancing act here we don't want misleading advertising but we also don't want to read a 30 page legal document just to understand what a product is there's got to be there's got to be something in between we've got to make this happen all right why don't we jump into oh yes dan he moved the mic toward himself so he's preparing

1:22:54Linus Sebastian:to say something dan speak okay that's a good point for flow plane chat why am i resisting this and i think the red bull gives you wings thing is really stupid but i also think that the pepsi jet is legendary i don't know feel free to unravel that one for us is it i feel like i feel like it is different because in the pepsi jet thing they they like they gave it a point amount that you would need to get to

1:23:27Luke Lafreniere:they were very specific and it was like in the tv commercials it was in there

1:23:32Linus Sebastian:i think it's different really i think it's i think so

1:23:42Luke Lafreniere:i mean youtube you pepsi promised a jet and youtube promised no interruptions no interruptions no interruptions

1:23:55Luke Lafreniere:i could you i think we really could both sides this one for like the rest of the show

1:24:00Linus Sebastian:Maybe. Maybe I'll just shut up and we'll move on.

1:24:05Luke Lafreniere:All right. Why don't we have another just kind of free-flowing conversation topic? This came up in writers' meeting actually last week. And I was like, yeah, I don't know if it's a video essay for the main channel. But what I really think it is is a really interesting conversation on WAN Show. Elijah brought this up. There was a post on the subreddit, and I'm relying on the writers to bring it to me. I think I'm actually one month sober from even looking at our subreddit at this point. And quite frankly, I'm happier for it. This topic comes courtesy of user Zeizen553 saying we should review more mid-range tech.

1:24:49Luke Lafreniere:It sparked some conversation both in the comments as well as here internally asking, like, what exactly is mid-range? And we saw people debating things like whether the$200 TV that we just did a video on is mid-range or entry-level. On a recent short circuit, Elijah referred to the Nothing 4A as Nothing's budget-slash-entry-level phone, and some people got quite upset in the comments saying that's not budget that's mid-range so i guess the the question here is like you know what what does the community want or like what is our team's understanding of mid-range and i think this answer is going to really vary depending on the product category like a perfect example of a product category that i no longer like i'll admit to you as somebody who does this for a living for my profession for like 15 plus years now total going back to when i was at ncix something i don't understand right now is how to classify gpus what the fuck is a mid-range gpu anymore because i can tell you how i used to do it right like back when i was at ncix entry level was the like the the actual like garbage total waste of money like like gt 6 6 10 literally is worse than just upgrading your motherboard to something with better onboard graphics why are you even buying this that was entry level it was like i need a secondary display output that was entry level and that made its way up to like probably about a hundred dollars nowadays you can't buy for under a hundred dollars so what are what even so entry level doesn't exist and you know what that even started to happen throughout my time at ncix where the entry level went from being something that even made any sense to buy to being something that was just manufactured e-waste then your mid-range would have been like your hundred dollars to i would say like two hundred dollars because as soon as you went beyond that you got into like no this is a serious discrete gpu for like serious gamers it wasn't a given that everybody put a graphics card in their system if you weren't gaming you didn't put a GPU in your system.

1:27:30Luke Lafreniere:There was no purpose for it in general use software. Not everybody was a content creator and using the Adobe suite. Like, I feel like I'm very old man yelling at clouds right now, but it really was a totally different environment. And so by the time you got up to, you know, I'm buying something like a GTX 460 or something like that. I'm spending in 220 250 300 like that was starting that was getting into like mid to high mid to high end you know and then by the time you got up to like a 70 class card that was high end but here's the kicker that 70 class card was like 350 400 dollars right and that was high end and then anything above that you had like almost like you would have in like your ddr rankings where you've got your alphabet and then you got s tier so you had like your enthusiast tier where basically everyone in in putting it in that category everyone's acknowledging that nobody needs this that this is not necessary this is like we know we're spending twice as much to get 10 better performance or you know whatever the numbers work out to you're buying an extreme edition you're buying an 8800 ultra nobody needs this this is an enthusiast tier you just want to spend the money because you want the biggest e-dick that's fine and that's totally valid but let's all be honest with each other about what it is nowadays a thousand canadian dollars right because i'm talking cad back then a thousand canadian dollars buys you what in terms of like the like the class like the numbers attached to the back of the gpu i i would have called like a mid-range gpu back then okay maybe not quite but like mid-high you know somewhere in that range like a thousand canadian dollars barely gets you like a 50 70 now and so i have no idea graphics cards

1:29:18Linus Sebastian:for graphics cards, RAM, a lot of modern compute. To me, it feels like there maybe isn't an answer.

1:29:31Luke Lafreniere:Yeah, 5070 is about 650 US dollars. So times 1.4. So that's around 900 Canadian dollars.

1:29:40Linus Sebastian:I think mid-range is now used.

1:29:44Luke Lafreniere:I don't think you can say that though. That's such a hack. That's a cheat because people are still buying something. People are still buying brand new across the entire range of NVIDIA's products. So there has to be an entry level. But it seems like the answer is just no. There just isn't. NVIDIA stopped making GT. They stopped making anything that wasn't GT. It used to be that GT and GTX denoted gaming cards. Now, I don't think they have a product that isn't RTX. that isn't gaming. Like their product line starts for the 5060 at like 300 US dollars, is it not? Actually, I think it's a little more than that.

1:30:31Luke Lafreniere:What's a 5060 8GB? Yeah, it's higher. 5060, oh no, these are TIs, hold on. 5060 8GB. Gotta double check. I can't find any non-TIs right now. What's going on here? 50 68 gig yeah well it's because the ti's are the same price so yeah their product line starts at the cost of a secondhand playstation 5 which is freaking insane like there's no other way to describe that and people are like linus is just discovering inflation but it's it's not that right like you can look you can look at the look at the die sizes and look at what those die sizes are available for in other product categories like an intel you know k-series gaming cpu or whatever still costs the same in dollars today pretty much as it did back when i was working at ncix 15 years ago so no this is not just that obviously it plays a role absolutely and the and the memory ramageddon prices price crisis that's going on right now that's obviously a factor as well um but i'm just i'm looking at this going i don't understand how to classify this because if i looked you in the eye right now and i said yeah i'm building a system with an entry-level gpu a 5060 ti 8 gig for 370 us dollars you'd be like what the f**k you've you you're out of touch but i i'm i'm not out of touch it's it's the it's the children who are wrong and nvidia is the one who's out of touch i don't make the rules that's their entry level product shareholders who are wrong like is it is does entry level mean an amount to spend because i think that that aligns with what you said where you're like okay second hand is entry level or it's mid-range right or or is it or is it based on what the price bands are of products you can actually buy.

1:32:30Linus Sebastian:I know it's like a meme on the show that I'm cheap boy, but like I was talking to some people lately and looking into some of my own stuff for buying computer hardware and like my god man, it's a wasteland. I was trying to look into some decently high-end stuff because I want to start running some pretty good hardware at home for running local LLMs and in Canada, it just doesn't exist so that's cool like the used market is just not a thing you can go on ebay.ca you can say I want it to come from Canada you can do the search term and it will say well you can get it from the states or China good luck there's like it like literally shows no results for a bunch of the stuff I was looking up in Canada very disappointing and when looking at other people wanting to build user systems and like if I want to build this Steam machine that I'm talking about I'm not getting new stuff man.

1:33:36Linus Sebastian:Like I was looking at the stuff that I could find on Facebook Marketplace or whatever else compared to retail prices and I mean it's terrible there's a reason why Scraphead Wars is not very interesting right now I agree with not making Scraphead Wars this year, it's just terrible out there, it's still better on the used market than it is for retail. Especially if you're cool with it, and you probably should be, because it's actually probably fine going back to DDR4 platforms and accepting some stuff that would probably feel weird if you're used to building computers over the course of the last 10 minus two or three years.

1:34:20But yeah.

1:34:21Linus Sebastian:this is wild go back again deal with some stuff some of the old zen platforms that were ddr4 are

1:34:27Luke Lafreniere:still smoking uh we actually um labs is working on an article that they sent me the first draft of and i wrote up a script um on the on the plane on my last trip i've just got to tweak it and then we're going to probably record it on monday when i'm back in office but um it's like a retrospective looking back on the goat um the 1080 and 1080 ti and uh and talking about now that driver support has been dropped it's no longer getting new feature drivers um now that there are games that exist that literally will not launch on these cards because they don't support ray tracing and the games require ray tracing how viable are these cards still in 2026 and i was actually i was like kind of blown away by the answer it turns out they're actually still pretty viable it was uh it was a pretty cool little exploration i've been saying forever now that my my buddy's son was

1:35:27Linus Sebastian:playing arc raiders on a 1080 not even ti and he like actually was and it was actually really good

1:35:34Luke Lafreniere:and and they're and they're they're okay they are don't bite on the first ebay deal you see because there's a lot of people out there going on who would i got uh but there's a lot of people too that are more realistic i found on facebook marketplace uh deals there were deals to be had like 1080s for under 100 uh us dollars 1080 ti's under 150 us dollars like 120 130 i was when i

1:35:59Linus Sebastian:was perusing stuff pre that article being worked on i was finding 1080s at like the 80 canadian range when you were like kind of lucky.

1:36:10Luke Lafreniere:Yeah.

1:36:10Linus Sebastian:You know, not all of them. They're out there. They're around 100, but you can find them down to the 80 range. And I didn't spend as much time looking for the TIs, but yeah. And like the TI has 11 or 11 and a half gigs of, no, yeah, 11 of VRAM. Like it's pretty wicked cards.

1:36:31Luke Lafreniere:It's relatively slow by modern standards. So you got to understand that VRAM is not the be all and end all. but it's it's a viable gaming card for literally tens and tens of thousands of games on steam

1:36:45Linus Sebastian:you don't have to play very likely a lot of if not all of the games that you're playing yes

1:36:52Luke Lafreniere:there that that's key especially if you're coming from you know if you're if you're upgrading from something older right although i don't know if too many people are upgrading to a 10 series at this point it's been 10 years i wrote a really fun intro for that video uh it was like um oh wait

1:37:08Linus Sebastian:did you read it no i'm just sure i had a conversation yeah let's not get into it but i'm i am not surprised yeah we can talk about it more later oh okay whatever the point is uh i i wrote

1:37:20Luke Lafreniere:up it was like a thing where like talking about the goat in gpus is a lot like talking about the goat in women's tennis like there's there's room for outlier opinions but there's no way that the 1080 sisters and the Williams sisters are not in the conversation. And it just kind of builds on that. And there's actually some fun parallels in that one of them came first and blazed the trail that the other one surpassed anyone's expectations for what could be done. Like the older sister set a bar for greatness that only the younger sister could surpass. I don't know. It's kind of fun.

1:37:57Linus Sebastian:honestly i went to uh steam stats most played top 100 games by current players and i feel like the 1080 would do totally fine in the vast majority of this yeah what are we

1:38:16Luke Lafreniere:looking at here okay we got pal world cs2 dota 2 are you kidding me taskbar here some idle game uh pub m is gta 5 it'll play pub g no problem right like gta 5 is literally from that era like what are yeah what are we even what are we even talking about here i mean i i don't know uh football club 26 uh might have some tech that would be weird or something yeah that might be demanding probably fine i still feel like its rating is also 49 with 91 000 reviews so maybe Maybe just spare yourself the frustration. Destiny 2 is pretty demanding, but should run. Overall, it's not like you're not going to be able to play Mecha Chameleon.

1:39:08Linus Sebastian:Apparently, a GTX 1080 gets 64 FPS at 1080p Ultra in EA Sports FC26. There you go. There you go. What a crazy card, man. It just doesn't care. It just goes forever. They're amazing. There's this clip, and we link, I think it's a video cards article or something like that, in the Labs article that links to, I think that article then links to a video that's from Computex from this year, where someone hands Jensen, I think it's a 1080 Ti. And you can see in his face that, like, I think he actually really cared about, like, that generation of cards. because then he talks about like when he receives it he's like oh this was a good one and you can tell like there's probably a little bit of hamming up there's 10 trillion cameras around or whatever but you can tell he was actually kind of like really reminiscing on it and it's man unfortunately that's all we can do is reminisce about it yeah i do miss the pre-rtx era but yeah seriously scrolling through this top 100 games by current players you're gonna be fine with most of this There's a couple standouts where I'm like, ooh, yeah, that might be kind of rough.

1:40:24Linus Sebastian:I remember running Tarkov on a 1080. I remember it kind of sucked. And I remember I was happy when I moved on. Tarkov is number 79 on this list. Nice. But, man. Oh, man, Civ V is there. That's so funny.

1:40:45Linus Sebastian:Is there any other civilization? Six is there. okay five and six are both there seven is not

1:40:54Linus Sebastian:yikes oh that's a yikes both of your older games being in the top 100 is sick your newest game not is that's unfortunate

1:41:06Luke Lafreniere:um i got a question that i've been holding on to for a little bit here from athan immortal and this is going to break your brain um athan asks what is the modern equivalent to something like just a matrix i just need a display card well it's funny you should ask because the modern equivalent is just the equivalent we have not moved on to this day from the geforce 210 which no longer carries the gt uh modifier apparently i think it used to although i could be wrong it's been a while This is a card that has, I shit you not, PCIe 2.0 and one gigabyte of DDR3, all for the low, low price of 45 US dollarinos.

1:42:05Luke Lafreniere:what the actual fuck nvidia just straight up stopped making entry-level gpus which honestly kind of makes sense because they were stupid and onboard graphics is so much better than them already but also just what like when did the when did the geforce 210 come out

1:42:30Luke Lafreniere:release date oh i'm looking it up i'm looking it up to get your loud keyboard out of here

1:42:39Luke Lafreniere:2009 2009 so are you saying they're making new ones still as far as i can tell that was an in stock item brand new so there ain't no way that it's leftover inventory from 17 years ago so that answers your question.

1:42:59Linus Sebastian:Drivers for it?

1:43:01Luke Lafreniere:I mean, there must be. It's a brand new card you can still buy.

1:43:12Luke Lafreniere:2009.

1:43:16Luke Lafreniere:That's insane. You know what's really crazy about that? Linus entry level GPUs. Remember, we've done that video twice where we basically just call out don't buy entry-level gpus they're a waste of money uh so here's one of the times okay i don't even know what card we were talking about cheap does not mean good value okay this was a 10 30 okay so we called out that there was one we did way way earlier that like what does this have to do oh sponsored like search man search on freaking YouTube what is even the point of using it at all I swear I can't find like anything on YouTube anymore okay I'm gonna have to try and find this and then part of it

1:44:14Linus Sebastian:this is another interesting conversation at at open sauce with different creators and stuff, but part of it's just modern packaging. You know, I'm going to complain about it. We have to do it, so it is what it is. But title and thumbnail. Title and thumbnail needing to be the way that they kind of need to be makes search atrocious. But it's so heavily promoted. The impact, like, I mean, creators have been talking about okay I understand you don't want clickbait thumbnails but if I put up a non-clickbait thumbnail I get freaking owned and if I put up a clickbait thumbnail or not even a clickbait thumbnail if I put up an enticing thumbnail then it actually works and you guys actually watch the videos but it's like way more real now talking to creators here even about like oh yeah I put up a better thumbnail and my retention went up by eight percent and it's like what like just viewer behaviors are wild and yeah yeah someone said nah it's clickbait i'm like yeah you can call it clickbait all you want it's completely necessary it's not going anywhere that's that's the problem

1:45:27Luke Lafreniere:that i'm pointing out here um but what's dumb about it is youtube has so much metadata on these videos that there is no reason and i'm about to prove it that they couldn't release the right that they couldn't give me the right result what was the linus tech tips video where he said entry level gpus are a waste of money boom here's one of them if you're thinking of an older video linus and luke ranted about it in this video oh my god it's another ad for roundup you've got to be does the ad pause if you switch tabs it does that's that's demonic see they don't do that with premium let's go hold on there's an older one low-end video cards rant okay so that was based on the R7 240, your one from 10 years ago called out the GT 210, which, oh my God, was cheaper then than it is today.

1:46:29Linus Sebastian:Is it time for another one? Do you have to do another video? Do we need to make it like a fourth or whatever it is now? No.

1:46:41Luke Lafreniere:This video is from 2016. Yeah.

1:46:48Linus Sebastian:I mean, it's been a lot of years.

1:46:51Luke Lafreniere:It's bang on, I guess.

1:46:52Linus Sebastian:It's been a decade.

1:46:54Luke Lafreniere:Oh, man.

1:46:55Linus Sebastian:Yeah, so inflation would have brought that up by$10. Crazy.

1:47:03Luke Lafreniere:But let's see. Okay, so I searched for low-end video cards, Linus, on YouTube. Okay. and it literally finds the one it brings up 50 50 i guess that answers our question about what entry level is according to youtube and then what is this okay youtube made me review this budget gpu that's actually a pretty on topic one terrible news cloud gaming is good now what are you talking

1:47:29Linus Sebastian:about people also watch what is this can you do an experiment for me can you take the exact term uh phrase whatever sentence you typed into google well that's what i was trying into youtube okay so

1:47:39Luke Lafreniere:low-end video cards was exactly what i searched for low-end video cards it couldn't bring up that

1:47:45Linus Sebastian:video what you put into google search oh sure copy the entire thing uh no it's gone sorry

1:47:53Luke Lafreniere:uh yeah i closed that tab already history uh

1:48:00Luke Lafreniere:oh no you're gonna find all my stuff uh okay i've apparently reused that tab okay uh darn all left arrow does not oh yeah okay yeah control shift t people are saying that should bring a tab back if you close a tab yeah but i didn't i reused it this is red bull gives you wings lawsuit sorry guys i i computed wrong maybe don't worry about it yeah i just i've been

1:48:23Linus Sebastian:wondering if uh and i haven't actually tried it myself but i've been wondering if youtube has been moving more towards natural language search as they uh you know insert gemini and everything

1:48:34Luke Lafreniere:okay here's the original finally found it oh

1:48:42Luke Lafreniere:sorry another ad came up low-end video cards rant radeon r7 240 unboxing and review and our thumbnail for this literally was a stupid product no one buy it and here we are all these years later, do you think you can still buy an R7 240?

1:49:04Linus Sebastian:I feel like that one, maybe not. I hope not.

1:49:08Luke Lafreniere:Holy f***ing s***.

1:49:10Linus Sebastian:Wow.

1:49:11Luke Lafreniere:Okay, okay, hold on, hold on, hold on though. This looks like this has got to be an old listing. These are just like old garbage. You gotta be kidding me. I can buy a new one from Ilmo Proing brand. That's not as bad as the Nvidia one that's like still available from actual authorized AIBs. I'm dead here. Can you imagine back then, back in 2016, anyone with a straight face trying to sell a GPU from 2006? Like trying to sell you like an X800 Pro or something.

1:49:53Linus Sebastian:Yeah, I was gonna say, what would that even be?

1:49:55Luke Lafreniere:Yeah. Like a 70, yeah, well 2006 what would that even be that would be like geforce 6

1:50:13when did the 6800 gt come out i feel like that must have been around then oh 2004 so that would

1:50:23Luke Lafreniere:be like a 77 ,000 that would be like a 7 ,000 series but this is right I'm looking at like a timeline of Nvidia releases yeah and then what would have been current in 2016 that would have

1:50:39Linus Sebastian:been like 780 series and it would have been a low-end card from back then too which is crazy

1:50:49Luke Lafreniere:No that would have been later That would have been like 980 GPU hold on let me double check No dude That was the 1080 So that would have been like someone trying to sell you A 6800 GT When the 1080 existed For$499

1:51:14Luke Lafreniere:That's Crazy And now that I think about it the 10 series also happened to be the last generation to get a decent entry-level gpu the 1030 in the right ram configuration was actually not crap the the 10 the 10 is just the goat it's just the goat you look at it you look at the 10 series compared to what came 10 years before it and you look at it compared to what came 10 years after it and the difference is just staggering in both cases like how well it kept up with what came 10 years later and how far ahead

1:51:49Linus Sebastian:it was of what was 10 years before i think 8800 gtx technically launched in 2006 i think it was november oh did it all right all right i'll allow it i'll allow but i mean for most of that year it would have been 7000 series crazy but yeah yeah november 8 2006 how much do you think it was

1:52:15Luke Lafreniere:the 8800 uh which one gtx the gtx hold on i might actually remember this i think it was uh i think

1:52:21Linus Sebastian:it was 699 if i recall correctly yeah six six hundred bucks is what i'm saying is it 599 but probably the ultra was 999 though oh yeah yeah yeah also that it was 600 us so you might be

1:52:35Luke Lafreniere:remembering canadian prices i i probably just forget i i would you i would have been thinking in u.s prices back then as well because all of our pricing at ncix was just derived from u.s pricing anyway because we were buying in u.s dollars but then selling canadian dollars so we constantly had to be like hedging for exchange and stuff it was the whole thing the 8800 gt though that was goaded for value that thing was incredible it was almost the performance of an 8800 gtx but it was like$350 or something like that when it first came out or like$299 or something. It was crazy. It's crazy. Like if you talk to people who have been in NVIDIA long enough, they like still remember the trauma of accidentally releasing a product for like$150 less than what they should have been charging for it because you don't actually like win because the handful of people that were able to get their hands on them, like they're happy, but everyone else who's getting it scalped or just who can't get one is just mad at you.

1:53:40Luke Lafreniere:Like it's actually not good to price something too low. It can end up causing more backlash than it causes goodwill with customers, which is a really unintuitive thing that I think consumers, if they just focus on sort of their own feelings and forget that there's like a lot of other customers out there and not all of them are going to be able to get one at that price, I could easily forget. Like I don't envy, you know, my girl Taylor Swift, right? She has her concert ticket prices. If she goes too low, nobody can get one. Everyone's mad. Scalpers rejoice. If she goes too high, she's a money-grubbing bitch and how dare she price it so high?

1:54:25Luke Lafreniere:Like nailing the exact right price. And then back to our what's entry level, what's mid-range. Part of that conversation we haven't even gotten into yet is that it's all relative. It's all relative to your income, which by the way, whether you have an entry level or a high end income is super relative to where you live and your cost of living. And so everyone's got their completely different perspective on it. So no matter where you price something, someone's going to be mad because you're pricing it like a premium offering and someone else is going to be mad because if you just charged a little more for it, then I wouldn't have to stand next to all the riffraff in line at Disney or, you know, well, like whatever their perspective is, right?

1:55:04Linus Sebastian:Yeah,

1:55:06Luke Lafreniere:man, I, uh, that would be a hell of a move for the Disney theme parks to have like one day a month where the ticket is like$2 ,000 and they're just like, yeah, whatever, you, the, the park is practically empty. You basically walk

1:55:21Linus Sebastian:onto every ride i bet people would pay it you know they would i promise you they would yeah oh man back to the 8800 though it's one of my favorite generations of graphics cards yeah i i just looked up the ultra as i remember i like i think it was just so obviously never going to happen that i just like almost erased this from my memory because i remember being like when i was shopping for cars at the time like i was not gonna be able to afford an ultra so i think i just kind of forgot about it the shroud version which might have been all of them i don't think so but the shroud version that had like the bump that's the ultra for the fan yeah was that every ultra was

1:56:01Luke Lafreniere:every ultra like that uh every i believe so because that was one of the early examples of nvidia having almost like a founders or reference cooler yeah and their aibs were not allowed to really modify it so all you really got was um like kind of stickers on this they yeah they all looked like this with the first time i saw one of these in person was when i started working with you oh yeah okay and i just remember being like damn she was a she was a thick girl yeah by the standards then like extending like small extending beyond the top of the pcie slot bracket thing was crazy at the time two power connectors like for contrast uh here's what the 8800 gtx which was basically the same damn thing just not clocked as high here's what the gtx looked like which was

1:56:56Linus Sebastian:pretty cool but it didn't have like this was like that's a big cart but it didn't have that big

1:57:02Luke Lafreniere:full coverage shroud on it hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm or or or or

1:57:33Linus Sebastian:us and So sweet. What a time to be alive. Anyway, cool. That was a cool, fun conversation. We still don't have an answer as to what exactly the crap mid-range tech is. I don't think it exists right now. I think it's a lie. Well, it does exist. I think it's completely contextual based on whether you're willing to buy used stuff where you live right now. Because there's actually surprisingly different pricing geographically right now.

1:57:38Luke Lafreniere:And the product category. Mid-range TVs 100 % exist. Entry-level TVs that are worth buying 100 % exist. But not every category has a functioning entry-level or mid-range. And so I don't know what us covering more mid-range tech necessarily even looks like. It's good feedback. It also doesn't work.

1:57:59Linus Sebastian:We've talked about this a bunch. It can. It doesn't. It can. Yes.

1:58:03Luke Lafreniere:So one formula that I've been bugging the writing team for us to get on is I want to make a habit of going to Costco like once every quarter. And if we don't have a video on a tech item that's in Costco, we basically consider that a failure. Because if it's mainstream enough that Costco carries it, people need information about it. And if people need information about it and we're not providing it, then we suck. And that's sort of the mentality I want us to have about it.

1:58:29Linus Sebastian:You know what I'd watch? Linus helping somebody buy a TV at Costco. i'd watch that too taking you taking like some employee from lmg that's like thinking of like they want to buy a tv yeah and you just take them on a trip to costco and then they can ask what different tvs oh i think i like this one you can tell them like why it's you know good or not yeah sure that i would i would love you don't like that one that one has tyson what's a tyson

1:58:57Luke Lafreniere:Yeah, sure. But seriously. It's the devil.

1:59:04Luke Lafreniere:In all seriousness, though, man, I hate that some of Samsung's TVs are so good because I do find myself recommending them sometimes, even though I know that you're going to have to deal with that. But at the end of the day, image quality is king for me. So it might be hard for me to recommend something necessarily because my priorities are not the same as someone else's. But what I can do is demystify. Like if they ask a question, I can explain like, oh yeah it has that or it doesn't have that um the the whole just like linus goes shopping with people format has actually been really successful and going in and reviewing the videos like i can see why it's really enjoyable and i also just i really enjoy teaching people this gets us really well into the floatplane announcement so we can get that out of the way but uh we did a floatplane exclusive this week that is probably the most fun that I've had shooting one in quite a while.

1:59:59Luke Lafreniere:Oh, actually, there's a couple banger floatplane exclusives this week. We have episode two of Pull the Trigger. If you get a tech question wrong, catchy name, Sammy. Good job. But basically, it's like tech roulette, and you have to take a chance at soaking yourself if the other person gets the answer first was Luke versus Nick Harris from the lab. And then the other one is episode two of LMG Learns Life Skills. So episode one, I think was Elijah learning to ride a bike. And episode two is Colton and Nicole, who I did not know, did not know how to swim. But I give them a swimming lesson. And it was, it was actually really fun.

2:00:49Luke Lafreniere:It's been, it's been fun reading through the comments um just because like this reminds me of how linus can be awesome at teaching stuff to people we don't get to see him do this very often but we can clearly see how professional he is while doing this um that's literally my job is to teach people about tech i think you just it's one of those funny things where it's like if you saw your school teacher teaching someone piano you might go wow you're a really good piano teacher um but like teaching anything follows very very similar principles and it's a really similar process um so like when you're teaching a physical skill it's just demo describe do correct um and you just you just repeat that cycle and as long as you understand how to do it pretty well and you have an analytical eye it's it's actually okay maybe this is this is me then uh maybe not everyone feels this way but it's actually really fun it's really rewarding um and it's it tickles exactly the same part of my brain as like luke you described the joy of like troubleshooting a tech problem um or like uh like uh like debugging something and like like that aha moment of like getting it working it's exactly the same thing it's the aha moment of getting someone to uh process that they need to be blowing bubbles and kicking at the same time.

2:02:17Luke Lafreniere:Otherwise they are going to sink and they are going to die. And seeing that now that will no longer be the case and they might have a chance of not unaliving themselves if they fall into water at some point. Like it's exciting, it's fun. And I had a lot of fun with it. And it's just one of those things that is funny for me too because I talked about it a lot more in the early days of the channel, but I often forget that a lot of people watching today were not born. When we started this channel, I literally am a very professional swimming lessons teacher because I literally did it for a job. Like that was my first job was to teach swimming lessons.

2:02:56Luke Lafreniere:I'm a professionally trained water safety instructor. So yeah, it's not that crazy for me to be able to teach people to swim. But yeah, I don't know. It's fun though. It's fun. I had a really time. Uh, but yeah, happy Merlin says, I really liked this video, especially that this time the instructor actually had a plan how to instruct them and seemed competent doing it. It's like, yeah, I have like, like many, I have like hundreds of hours under my belt teaching swimming lessons. I know how to do it. I was just, I was a little rusty. Uh, but actually because I had planned to teach my kids and then I never got around to it, I ended up hiring someone.

2:03:33Luke Lafreniere:Um, I went and I got my hands on like an old WSI like workbook. It wasn't the same one. It was like the American one and I had taught the Canadian one, but the principles are pretty much the same. So I was able to follow it along and and put together a nice little program for Colton and Nicole. It was good though. And like Sammy did a great job of filming. We've got like this underwater footage and everything. So it's a fun little exclusive. What else am I supposed to say about float plane? Blah, blah, blah. Open the link. First one being Tech Relay. Show the thumbnail. Sammy's got a bunch of instructions in here.

2:04:10Luke Lafreniere:I don't follow the instructions, but whatever. And we have some mouth-watering early access. Sell the video, Linus. Sell the video. What does he mean? Ooh. Oh, this is a fun one. This was actually a media team labs collaboration. so we tested a bunch of the top gaming distros to determine hey is there a gaming advantage for one over the others and uh it was it actually has a companion article over on the ltd labs website where they get into some of the more um daily drivery like setupy details in addition to just the performance benchmark. So it's a really nice little one-two content piece that I think you guys are really going to enjoy.

2:05:00Luke Lafreniere:So that's live on Floatplane. Now, you guys can get wet with us at lmg.gg slash fpwan. Alrighty then, Sammy. Thank you. Oh, I get it because both of the exclusives were water-themed. All right, sure, fine. I'll allow it. All right, what are we supposed to be doing next? Sponsors. Sponsors. No, I think we should do a topic or two before we do sponsors again. Then why do you ask? Wait, have we done any sponsors yet? Holy crap, Dan, you gotta tell me earlier. We've been live for two and a half hours. The show is brought to you by Vessi. Just because it's summer doesn't mean you don't want to be caught in a surprise storm with soggy socks.

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2:07:34Linus Sebastian:are you meditating over there no i was just well i was thinking i don't know okay so then

2:07:41Luke Lafreniere:that's kind of the same thing don't hurt yourself uh back to more topics strain a brain brain cell strain of thought.

2:07:50Linus Sebastian:I used the brain cell for too long.

2:07:52Luke Lafreniere:Mom says it's my turn. No. I used it out.

2:07:56Linus Sebastian:It's burnt up. Topics, I guess? Sure, yeah, why not? Yeah, let's do this one. 75 % of all PlayStation 3 games are now playable on PC as RPCS 3 nears full preservation. The open source PS3 emulator rps rpcs3 it's like designed to trip you up earlier amazing that one's tough uh just announced that 35 of the entire playstation 3 catalog i by the way i read that i think like four times before i got there never saw the c anyways makes sense that it's there pc but whatever Yeah, the PCS3. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You got this. The entire catalog is now playable on PC. That's 2 ,681 of the 3 ,559 games it tracks marked playable, meaning they run start to finish with acceptable performance and no game-breaking bugs up from 70 % in January.

2:09:01Linus Sebastian:That's huge. This is an aside. that might be a nicer way for ProtonDB to talk about things because I'm at the point where I just assume gold means not worth my time but anyways moving forward a few big exclusives like The Last of Us God of War 3 and Metal Gear Solid 4 are still in the in-game tier which in-game tier which makes sense since those pushed the original hardware hardest.

2:09:32Luke Lafreniere:Yeah, in-game just means you can get past the menu, but you can't rely on it to be stable or not have any bugs.

2:09:40Linus Sebastian:Okay, sure.

2:09:41Luke Lafreniere:So they can get in-game, but you can't. In-game, yeah.

2:09:44Linus Sebastian:Yeah, you can't play all the way through for sure just fine. This comes right after Sony confirmed it's shutting down the PS3 and Vita stores by 2027, which turns RPCS3 into the de facto preservation tool for a generation Sony is actively sunsetting. The team also just re-implemented a chunk of the PS3 system software in open source code, inching towards the goal of running games without needing Sony's firmware at all. Wow. Wow.

2:10:16Luke Lafreniere:Our discussion question is a hot one. Every time a company pulls the plug on old hardware, it feels like it's the volunteer emulator scene that actually saves the games. Should preservation really be falling entirely on unpaid communities? Uh, no. Yeah. Yep, not much of a discussion question, but certainly a good point for us to talk about. And our other discussion question is, if emulation is the only thing keeping some of these games alive, is it still fair to call it a legal gray area? Yes. Yes, it is.

2:10:52Linus Sebastian:Unfortunately.

2:10:53Luke Lafreniere:Unfortunately, yeah.

2:10:55Linus Sebastian:Also, this is... Hmm. does this make complete sense the argument that we're making because most ps3 games had physical releases did i make an argument oh no every time a company pulls a plug on old hardware so the plug on the old hardware the thing about the old hardware though fine they do but does sony provide replacement parts for them okay but that's a different then there's a

2:11:22Luke Lafreniere:that's not open source communities there's a finite amount of hardware that will and there's a finite lifespan of that hardware before sometime in the future when it will all be gone there is other than emulation and other than preservationists no other way to use that aforementioned disk and so i think i know i i think i don't think it's that i don't think it's a disingenuous point to make because that's exactly what they're raising is when the plug gets pulled on the hardware and there's various stages of plug pulling like one of the plugs that gets pulled is we're not selling it anymore another plug that gets pulled is there's no longer any under warranty then there's no replacement parts then there's and so on and so on and so on and so forth until someday there will not be a single playstation 3 that is left functioning i just i

2:12:13Linus Sebastian:just don't know if it's the same argument like there's um like okay when we're talking about like should it be entirely up to unpaid communities so what are we expecting them to do i guess is my question so they made this console yeah they didn't they didn't stop it from working i mean they they sold these games with physical copies lots of them i still suspect the majority of ps3 games were sold physical oh definitely people had switched over at that time so there's an incredible amount of physical copies out there there's 80 million ps3s out there what is the company supposed to do when they start you they are expected to create an emulation port for a completely separate system also known as the play the computer does that make sense um is that fair

2:13:04Luke Lafreniere:i think we've talked about this in the past and i think that you and i kind of both settled on well, if I have some way to buy it at a somewhat reasonable price and forever, then yeah, we consider the emulation a lot less necessary.

2:13:24Linus Sebastian:Like if... Oh, I'm not against the emulation.

2:13:26Luke Lafreniere:Like if the PlayStation Store still... If you were still able to buy those games and run them on modern hardware, then I don't think there's any preservationist argument to be made. But in a lot of cases, you can't.

2:13:39Linus Sebastian:That's not what I'm arguing. Oh, okay, sorry. That's not super clear. I'm not against the preservation here. I didn't say you were. My specific line is the... Yeah, pulls the plug. Should it be fully on unpaid communities? That's the line that I'm looking at. It's like, what are we... By saying that, what do we expect? What is the action we're looking for PlayStation to have taken here?

2:13:59Luke Lafreniere:Well, that's what I'm saying. The action that I think you and I have talked about in the past and that we agreed that they could take and that would make all of this unnecessary is if you could still buy these titles and still play them on modern hardware because that would completely get around any kind of future where playstation 3 hardware is no longer viable or no longer available but a lot of in a lot of cases that doesn't happen it doesn't go down like that and so in those cases you know i look at something like uh like a chrono trigger for snes and i go okay well like fuck you nintendo like you don't make this available to me in any other way so like you're not it's not like you're profiting if i go buy a secondhand snes cartridge anyway so what are we even talking about here um actually i don't know if chrono trigger is a great example is that available on other platforms chrono trigger buy like can you can you buy it today for any other oh no it's on steam okay so bad example but there there are many titles that were never ported to future platforms.

2:15:03Luke Lafreniere:And if it was me today, and I was like, I want to play Chrono Trigger, I would buy it for 15 bucks. I would think it is, no, I would think it's not great to pirate that for me. And everyone can make their own choice. I'm not passing a judgment if you decide to download a ROM of Chrono Trigger and play it that way.

2:15:21Linus Sebastian:Still, we're talking about different things.

2:15:23Luke Lafreniere:Well, the only thing I'm trying to answer is, should it be falling entirely on unpaid communities? and I'm saying if the paid people like the software engineers at Sony were making it so that you could play these games on the modern hardware then it wouldn't be falling on unpaid communities Sony would be doing it but if they don't do that then it is falling on unpaid communities because otherwise nobody's doing it yeah yeah

2:15:51Linus Sebastian:I think we're having different conversations so what do you mean then? I was never questioning like if this isn't happening then this happens if this doesn't happen or if this does happen then this doesn't happen like yeah sure it's the should so that's why i keep coming back to like what should sony do in this case so are we expecting them as a company to permanently emulate every single game that ever gets released on their on any console they've ever had

2:16:24Linus Sebastian:is that the action i think the thing that i'm questioning is what is the action that we're asking from them because you're saying it should be available so okay so sony not necessarily the individual studios but sony needs to emulate 3559 games forward to every single console or pc and make it compatible until the end of time and then do that for playstation 1 and playstation 2 and PlayStation 3 and 4 and everything?

2:16:56Luke Lafreniere:I mean, I think that a lot of people would also settle for... Maybe they can contribute? Yeah, I think a contribution would go a long way, yeah.

2:17:05Linus Sebastian:Maybe there's some threshold where, like, if you sell a certain amount of consoles or something, you're expected to contribute... Once you sunset that console, you're expected to contribute some amount of software development hours or something towards an open source project.

2:17:26Luke Lafreniere:Or at the very least, they could just screw off and not make life miserable for the people who are doing it.

2:17:33Linus Sebastian:Are they doing that?

2:17:35Luke Lafreniere:They can be very litigious around certain things, like the firmware, for instance, is one of the ways that Sony fights emulation by going after anybody hosting firmware files, which are copyrightable, even if there's other aspects of emulation that are considered to be, you know, a separate independent work and non-infringing. So it's, you know, in response to our other discussion question here, it's absolutely a legal gray area because you can download an emulator and it's not illegal to host an emulator download. No one's going to be able to go after you for that but as soon as you're hosting like the.scph or whatever like firmware files then you're in real trouble so tracking those down is just like a it's like an endless maze of cross-referencing reddit posts to where there's an active download link for it because it all ultimately gets pulled down and if it wasn't sony doing it then i don't know who it would be um i don't know i think i think there's given the financial incentive to like keep making these games available and how with all the tools that sony has to build forward and backward compatibility which they clearly you know have done so that no i actually don't think it's that unreasonable to ask them to continue to do that i mean they have done it

2:19:07Linus Sebastian:yeah i think there's actions that could make sense i uh i like the idea it's it's it's interesting interesting approaches yeah i'm wondering like like one thing i'm wondering is okay if the firmware is a problem like all right once they once they get rid of the store okay they're they're shutting down the ps3 store in 2027 the vita too so i think on on the date that they ditched the store if they open sourced the firmware i mean is that is that an action that

2:19:41Luke Lafreniere:would like work for people that'd be that'd be a pretty bro move i mean i think there's a lot more documentation that um would be extremely helpful so that it didn't all have to be reverse engineered

2:19:54Linus Sebastian:they would never guys we're not talking about if they would do it i'm talking i feel like i'm not communicating this clearly. We're talking, should preservation be falling on the unpaid communities? Okay, everyone's effectively being like, okay, no. So then it's like, all right, then in that case, what action do we want them to take? And then I'm trying to figure out what thing, not what they would do, but what action do we want them to take? Maybe the firmware is too much. Okay, maybe they don't want to do that. It's trademarkable. It's a little bit too far. What other step is then going to work i would accept them contributing to the open source code

2:20:29Luke Lafreniere:i'd accept a little far sony doing the work and continuing to commercialize it and if they aren't going to do that then i think that's where we get into some of the solutions you're talking about where they contribute to a preservationist society or they uh or or do do something they they they they even if it's cost prohibitive right like i okay here's a compromise that i could see someone like a sony potentially agreeing to is they basically go okay well here's the cell architecture and you can port it to an fpga if you really want to by the way that fpga is going to be like an eight thousand dollar you know thing because cell architecture was ridiculous or whatever um you know good luck doing anything with this because at least what that would do is it would create a future 20 30 years from now when again it comes down to when are all those ps3s going to die when all those are actually starting to die maybe it becomes viable by that point to to do an affordable fpga ps3 like at least you're making it more reasonably possible give us some point on the horizon that we could look toward and go okay there's our target that's what we're sailing toward to to ensure that this entire generation of gaming history isn't lost but right now they're doing nothing they're actively working against those efforts and and quite frankly i mean i understand why because in a lot of cases this is software that is still available and does still contribute commercially to the endeavors that sony is undertaking like i i get that obviously they're going to be anti-piracy they make money selling software um but there's got to be there's got to be an eye toward okay tens of years in the future how do we make sure that the efforts today to block piracy don't prevent it from being preserved where's the middle ground

2:22:40Linus Sebastian:yeah yeah okay uh a fun topic oh pc gamer turns steam games into

2:22:48Luke Lafreniere:you want to talk about something i knew you were gonna love this i picked this just for you i

2:22:51Linus Sebastian:didn't really care it's so sick i i actually like kind of even just want to do this myself because it sounds incredible. I knew it. I knew it. Even just having like, oh man, I wonder how absurd they would become. But if you could make like an e-ink display that shows the art of the game, because these are 128 gig SSDs. Like I don't want to have a trillion of them. But if I had like maybe five that were some of my more recent games and then I could update the art on it, that would be so sweet. Okay.

2:23:26Luke Lafreniere:Okay, Luke, do you want to read the thing? W Calderini says, um, tell us the topic.

2:23:32Linus Sebastian:Fair enough. I got too excited. My bad. Redditor Jabril Sama built a Steam game cartridge system by loading individual games onto used two and a half inch SATA SSDs, then 3D printing custom cartridge shells with cover art so they look like oversized Switch carts. It works by triggering a script that auto-launches the game when it detects the SSD has been put into the dock, or alternatively, just drops you on the correct Steam page so then you can click play. The whole thing runs on Linux using a UDEV rule to detect the drive and a systemd service to run the script. No, you don't care about any of that kind of stuff.

2:24:14Linus Sebastian:But it's recreatable on Windows without the auto-launch part. But I mean, you're probably switching to Linux anyway, so you can make it the coolest version. it's a novelty more than a practical setup the the notes say this doesn't seem that impractical to me and the games are still digitally licensed so it's not true preservation yeah it's not preservation it's just fun but the timing struck a nerve it's landing yeah that's a good point it's landing right as the playstation disc death news has everyone talking about physical media again and it scratches the itch of physically picking a game off the shelf one of the reasons why I would want to do this is it would be fun to like, I don't know, once a quarter or something be like, you know what?

2:24:58Linus Sebastian:These are the games I would, I would love to like get off the backlog.

2:25:01Luke Lafreniere:Yeah. And then you're intentful about it.

2:25:04Linus Sebastian:Yeah. I sit down the computer. What do I want to play? Well, I've got these four or five in front of me. Which one do I want to put in? I put the card in, it just starts the game and I'm going. There's not the like steam library fatigue that you run into yeah this is the paralysis you want to hear the best news you want to hear the best part 128 gig like old sata ssds can be had for like as little as 15 bucks yeah here's some old sand

2:25:33Luke Lafreniere:discs you know so you could you could get your five games for 19 canadian dollars each so it would be a grand total here we go of 115 canadian dollars for all your game carts if you wanted to build something like this i think it's cooler to have the game on there

2:25:57Linus Sebastian:and then that keeps some you know some storage off your actual drives that are in your system and stuff like that so it's like very likely worth it but realistically if you already have a big game drive you don't have to have an ssd for each one of these you just need the launch script so you could have some really tiny storage um it could probably be like an sd card effect you know you wouldn't like it as much that way no i want to do the ssd that is sick it was fantastic i'm not even talking for me i'm just talking to somebody's like yeah you know i don't necessarily want to do that or maybe used ssds are more expensive where i am i knew you were gonna love this i just i saw

2:26:37Luke Lafreniere:this headline and i was like i was looking into it i'm just like all right i gotta i gotta put this on the way and show doc i'm gonna bring this to luke yeah yeah somebody said usb drives yeah

2:26:46Linus Sebastian:you could use like old usb drives it's just a little tiny auto launch script you can put on

2:26:51Luke Lafreniere:like anything you could use an rfid chip you could just you could just put a card on it on it you could like boop a card in order to launch the game like you could do this with anything but

2:27:01Linus Sebastian:having the actual having it actually chunk in it actually has the data on the drive that's it's cool i like that a lot yeah that's really that's that's wicked cool um this paired with the the operating systems that that dude at whale land did oh yeah yeah yeah yeah he had

2:27:20Luke Lafreniere:windows and linux operating systems on ssd cartridges for his like old school modded

2:27:26Linus Sebastian:system is so cool didn't he make it look like uh like nes carts or something yeah no i think it

2:27:32Luke Lafreniere:was for an nes uh modded system so then they looked like nes carts and they like went in but they were like u.2 drives like they were like crazy i have to do that for my server no you don't have to do anything no i have to do that you have to do that can you explain he actually was just sitting there like this he wasn't even on camera oh my god i gotta i'm leaving um i have work to do i must go i have been compelled um on topic um you know to do with playstation and game preservation um sony is planning to stop producing physical game discs in 2028 okay we know this this points to a digital only playstation 6 um unfortunately that's a huge problem for like a big chunk of the world a hundred and today 121 countries cannot officially create psn accounts or access the playstation store so in a disc-free future players in those regions would have no official way to buy playstation 6 games at all so this is the same problem that we had with

2:28:42Linus Sebastian:helldivers right i'm remembering i think this is the exact same problem that helldivers had

2:28:50Luke Lafreniere:this whole discussion about how 62 of countries are locked out of playstation was kicked off from a reddit user pointing out that georgia has no playstation store meaning that georgians would not be able to buy games after 2028 it is important context on that 62 number though this is counting countries not players and not revenue uh so the excluded list estonia jamaica kenya pakistan vietnam zimbabwe venezuela and others is mostly smaller markets and roughly 70 percent of sony's gaming revenue already comes from north america and europe where access to the ps and our playstation network and playstation store is not a problem um but these other regions have historically leaned on physical media precisely because psn isn't available so losing discs is going to hit them the hardest even if they're a small slice of sony's balance sheet this lands Hence, while Sony is already under pressure on the digital ownership front, facing a$450 million lawsuit from a Dutch non-profit and a planned antitrust complaint from Mexican lawmakers, Sony has not announced any plan to expand PSM to those 121 countries before the 2028 cutoff, and there's unconfirmed speculation that the PS6 could offer an optional external disk drive.

2:30:10Luke Lafreniere:Our discussion question is, sony is asking the whole world i'm not really asking demanding that the whole world go digital when a big chunk of the world quite literally can't is dropping discs a reasonable business call or is it a giant fu to the gamers who relied on physical media the most by the way i'm doing a really quick tally of populations can it be both and it's billions of people from we're talking

2:30:39Linus Sebastian:about smaller countries it is billions of people from a business from a business standpoint i

2:30:47Luke Lafreniere:see the logic but from a human standpoint it's very clear how problematic the behavior is i

2:30:57Linus Sebastian:think i think both of those things can be equally true yeah sure because maybe yeah there are billions of people but how many of them are getting playstations there are billions of

2:31:08Luke Lafreniere:especially playstation 6s how what's a ps6 gonna cost yeah how reduced are the prices they're

2:31:15Linus Sebastian:playing they're paying on those stores because of currency stuff blah blah blah blah that that all converts into business value whatever but like oh my god just have physical freaking discs bro what wasn't it like almost 20 of playstation sales were still physical like do we really have to

2:31:36Luke Lafreniere:cut this off i mean it was less that it was still 20 or 25 or something like that and it was more

2:31:43Linus Sebastian:how quickly it was trending towards all digital right that's right yeah like it's it's it's moving

2:31:51Luke Lafreniere:fast gamers are making a lot of noise about losing physical media and then a lot of action about lining up to buy digital media and i am i am an an early adopter of digital media i basically like stopped buying physical games when steam became a thing i have a choice i know computer games

2:32:13Linus Sebastian:computer games stop being available physically i still had a choice i i switched over well before

2:32:18Luke Lafreniere:i didn't have a choice oh well you're a fart then i'll deal with it yeah what are you what are you gonna do about it i do i do miss my old warcraft 3 reign of chaos box that was like well maybe you should have kept buying that was the last cool full-sized game box that i bought and i like had

2:32:35Linus Sebastian:it up on my shelf it was that was cool i kept buying them when i could the the pc games disappeared from stores really fast oh yeah like like really overnight man yeah i went from like when we were

2:32:49Luke Lafreniere:at future shop i wanted to like go see the pc game aisle to like what is even the point why is this

2:32:54Linus Sebastian:even here like so fast i only stopped buying physical games because they just literally were not available and then for a while there you could only get them if you bought the collector's edition and then even the collector's edition just turned into digital codes um yeah i don't know

2:33:10Luke Lafreniere:gambler says i also switched over digital seemed so much more convenient that was before i knew the evil that would then happen i mean evil is a strong word but anti-consumer i could get behind yeah um okay okay I'll do the sponsor spots in a minute Dan first I want to do this I have something called Linus bonus topic I got tagged in a tweet this week from something that almost certainly is the most AI thing that I have encountered in quite some time uh so here's some ai person that's about the most ai profile picture i think i've ever seen with a generic um you know handle how an ncix dropout built linus tech tips into youtube's biggest tech channel uh that's pretty debatable but sure whatever um and basically basically it's like uh it's like just like an like an ego thing so they generate these pages tag the person and then presumably try to get you to talk about them and it's like a lot of awards are like this where you like you pay to be considered for an award and then because no one like pays for it you like win the award and then you get write-ups about yourself and it's like anyway the point is i was like okay what is this i'll bite let's have a look and basically what i came away from this with is that this is in a nutshell the the death of the internet luke the end of being able to find reliable information on the internet because this is like snake eating its own tail content generation that is ultimately only designed to feed into LLMs, which is going to create more content, which is going to pull.

2:35:22Luke Lafreniere:So, so let's go through here for fun and find some of the things that are wrong, uh, in this, in this article that if you, if you dig into who these guys, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. If you dig into who these guys are, um, they are claimable and collectible. So you'll, you'll, uh, one true page for everyone making something real, claimable, correctable, and built to be found. This is really important. Built to be found by AI. Okay. And then, so who the crap were you guys again? I forget. I forget. I looked it up and basically it was like two, it was two people from, I want to say, you I'm not going to say where they were from because I forget.

2:36:13Luke Lafreniere:Hold on. Where are they? So the company is based in Peterborough or something like that. And yeah, it's two Pakistani nationals that maybe are related because they have the same last name that are listed as the founders over on Endul Open. So make of that what you will. Who knows? Maybe everything's fake. but let's go ahead and let's have a look at just how many things are wrong here before we even have to go too far at the very top, not too bad negotiated a YouTube channel worth millions for exactly one dollar actually I lied, that's pretty terrible because it wasn't worth millions at the time built a media company from the garage with his wife that's a nice name for you Luke no just kidding, my wife was involved at the beginning okay I'll give them a pass on this clause and still gets on camera to handle the hardware himself okay fair enough the most famous tech reviewer on the internet not sure about that is also the one who drops the most gear okay so it's ai generated but it got what like 70 right which i guess is about on par some of this 70 how do you how did this okay here's

2:37:17Linus Sebastian:a fun question how are you quantifying that by words by word character or sentence i'm giving

2:37:24Luke Lafreniere:if they have the word the and it's in the right spot in a sentence that is mostly correct then And I'm counting that.

2:37:31Linus Sebastian:To me, that isn't a fact. Here, here, hold on. I'm going to... The word the is not a fact. So I would go based on how many facts they stated.

2:37:40Luke Lafreniere:Okay, here. All right, we'll work on this together. We'll mark it up together. Okay, here we go. Okay, so I've got my... This is actually a very interesting debate

2:37:48Linus Sebastian:because people talk about error rate and it's an interesting conversation.

2:37:53Luke Lafreniere:So he did negotiate a YouTube channel for exactly$1.

2:37:58Linus Sebastian:I'll argue against myself real quick. Yeah. He could even be wrong. The word he could be wrong. But it isn't. It's right. I did. Right. But it's something that could be wrong. Okay. So the fact that they got it right could, like, it's, it's, it's the whole error. It's a very complicated conversation.

2:38:19Luke Lafreniere:So actually, I think I was going your way because it's more than 70 % right. If we just look at it by word count. uh i disagree the most famous reviewer on the internet but he drops the most gear so what i give them i give them a 70 so maybe they're a little bit um closer to 50 if we do it by

2:38:43Linus Sebastian:youtube channel worth millions for exactly one dollar if we encapsulate that as one thing then it's wrong correct yes built a media company from the garage with his wife yes correct that is not entirely correct but it's it's not it's it's maybe i would say i would say that's a solid

2:39:01Luke Lafreniere:like 66 right i could agree they got two out of the three people

2:39:11Luke Lafreniere:oh no ed ed too so 50 at least 50 right we can give them 50 credit for that one okay and and i mean realistically like if they're if they're talking in terms of like the the shareholders then they're not wrong then it's correct then it's correct

2:39:27Linus Sebastian:still gets on camera to handle hardware himself totally totally correct most famous tech reviewer

2:39:33Luke Lafreniere:no pretty debatable i'd say it's probably marquez if i had to pick one um i mean oh man there's a there's an argument to be made for aaron at this point but it's like are we talking lifetime or are we talking active like what are we talking about boss yeah yeah i think i think in regards to like household name you're still going to be marquez you think so i think so because he gets in front

2:39:56Linus Sebastian:of more mainstream media stuff anyway yeah i think so it's tough they're both huge um is also the one who drops the most in your i mean we got to give them that one either way i think we can agree that

2:40:12Luke Lafreniere:there's a lot of ways you can break it down and it's it's i'd say it's more correct than incorrect but there are already some glaring issues i think that's a pretty low bar but yeah this is pretty pretty good um but i think this is just like taken from wikipedia probably this is a bs number that means nothing anytime you've ever read like a forbes thing or like how much the top creators are making or whatever remember guys these are people that i know in a lot of cases and also i know myself um what yeah y 'all not even y 'all not even close y 'all guessing so don't even worry about that yeah add a couple zeros idiots well no i didn't say that um some of this is some of this is pretty good you know combined whatever negotiated the ip from ncix for one dollar when he left to start lmg yeah like some of this is pretty good but this is where things go absolutely crazy.

2:41:05Linus Sebastian:NCI's cameraman.

2:41:09Linus Sebastian:That's wrong on like multiple levels. What?

2:41:14Luke Lafreniere:What are you

2:41:15Linus Sebastian:talking about? Right? That's awesome. I like that. Yeah. That's wrong because there was someone called the cameraman. That was like a nickname for a specific person and it's wrong because he wasn't a cameraman oh yeah it's wrong for both

2:41:39Luke Lafreniere:reasons and it has the classic ai issue of being like just right enough to make you um to make you feel like it's all got to be right like this whole paragraph actually nails it better than almost any other summary i've seen sebastian grew up on a hobby farm in maple ridge british columbia the kind of childhood that doesn't suggest youtube billionaire okay first of all your very your own your own value here uh whoops but anyway you just need more zeros it's not a big of a problem he was named after linus pauling the only scientist in history to win two unshared noble prizes which either set an impossible benchmark or a very canadian one not sure what that last bit means but whatever we're pretty close diagnosed with adhd as a child he channeled into a restless curiosity about how things work, the kind that gets you hired at a computer retailer.

2:42:33Luke Lafreniere:I mean, that's probably fair enough. The hyper-focus on electronics and then the touch of the tism that made me prefer computers to people, it probably resulted in my future career. But here's where things get a little bit stupid. All of this mostly made sense. October 12th Linus Media Group Incorporated January 2013th Operations launched from a garage in British Columbia The co-founder on the business side was his wife Yvonne Ho So far so good A former Hong Kong actress With approximately 50 TV appearances Who pivoted To become CFO of a tech media company Really?

2:43:23Linus Sebastian:Good so far

2:43:23Luke Lafreniere:good so far what's the nicholas cage meme you don't say i didn't know that i married an older lady so or a tv star yeah or a tv star so yvonne hoe the actress is over here totally different person uh okay i was hoping for a picture so that we could see actress okay yvonne ho the actress completely different person not to be confused with yvonne ho my wife yvonne ho actress yvonne ho actress yvonne my wife yvonne my wife and this is like this is a piece of misinformation that only exists on like weird message boards and stuff like that like it's uh where is it getting this stuff and then and then so anyway i don't think we have to like keep going down this whole down this whole thing but like the fact that this kind of quote unquote resource is being built with the goal of being AI findable and AI searchable whether they'll achieve that goal or not at that I don't know but I just feel like we're doomed man how are we going to find how are we going to find accurate information man yeah yeah

2:45:04Linus Sebastian:I'm interested in if it's going to come up.

2:45:16Linus Sebastian:Okay, so I search it up. I get a Reddit thread. I get Wikipedia. Another random junk. I mean, it's not surfacing that high on Google.

2:45:32Linus Sebastian:So maybe they're not succeeding in that part.

2:45:35Luke Lafreniere:This is amazing. Ados posted this in the chat. How to confuse machine learning. This is so cursed. Thanks, I hate it. That's brutal. All right, anyhow. All right, well, we can move on. I came across that and I was just like, oh my gosh, we're doomed. Like we're so done. because that is for a lot of people that is actually canon that i am married to a hong kong actress who is i think like 10 or 15 years my senior that's a good move yeah yeah it's it was really helpful to leverage her experience in show business uh yeah she was born in 1974 so she's 12 years older than me and also I don't think has ever lived in Canada so that's it's a long distance long distance relationship there's challenges but we make it work you know hey oh oh I never talked about the Mac app okay this is so cool what cable is a free Mac app that lets you figure out what your mystery USB-C cables are you just plug one into your Mac and it shows you things like charging limit data speeds and display support unfortunately the app's creator daryl morley told the verge that he doesn't plan to make a windows version because quote windows apis don't expose what what cable needs but i just thought that this was super cool and i just wanted to highlight it for mac people so that they could just like see this look at this how great is this port connected carrying both data and display device runs at 10 gigabit per second videos going through an hdmi adapter here's all this like really whoopsie doodles here's all the damn it here's all this really that's for nerds but about usb cables yeah so then if you you know don't have true spec cables or you have a bunch of cables already then you can go through find out what their capabilities are and label everything freaking awesome i love it that was it that was all i just wanted to talk about that and i believe the free version is free.

2:47:51Luke Lafreniere:And you can unlock advanced diagnostics with WhatCable Pro. Oh, this is cool. I don't know what advanced diagnostics

2:47:59Linus Sebastian:means in this case.

2:48:00Luke Lafreniere:Yeah, your monitor is stuck at 30 hertz, the dock's charging at half speed, Pro tells you which part is lying. Which part of the link is underperforming. And apparently, Mac reports all of this in like a plain text, easy to read fashion that he was able to turn into this really useful little application. love it yeah yeah super cool um someone tried to roast you in chat said i believe the free version is free is great analysis linus thanks yeah it's funny it sometimes is great analysis

2:48:33Linus Sebastian:though because not everything labeled it's free actually really is yeah maybe it ends up being free for a time or it's free but there's micro transactions yeah it's free to download but if

2:48:43Luke Lafreniere:you want to have any like like go go try and find a data recovery software like a partition manager that's free that actually does anything before you put in a credit card is the uh is the expression free as in beer i think that's kind of like i've heard that before i haven't heard that before what does that mean that's basically what you're saying is like it's free as it and as it's free which mean it really is free as in beer would be like the data recovery software where it's kind of like

2:49:11Linus Sebastian:you know there's a catch like you're you're you know it's like a timeshare i actually never has free beers interesting yeah i might be wrong that's kind of how i i know it i think i just interpreted it so i don't know that i'm right either but the way i've interpreted it was usually like you know like if you get your friends to come help you move you provide free beer pizza and snacks it's got free beer of course no you're moving a couch up 15 flights of stairs it's free free beer yeah you want to come over and have some beers and pizza and they're like yeah and Also, I need you to use half my stuff.

2:49:46Linus Sebastian:Right. Yeah.

2:49:49Luke Lafreniere:Maybe that's right. I don't know.

2:49:52Linus Sebastian:I'm not sure. One press the button.

2:49:58Linus Sebastian:OnePlus.

2:50:02Linus Sebastian:No longer making phones for North America and the EU.

2:50:05Luke Lafreniere:See you later, markets.

2:50:07Linus Sebastian:Wow. OnePlus and parent company Oppo confirmed the brand will stop launching new phones in those locations. This will end a run that began in 2014 with the OnePlus One. Wow. Existing owners won't be cut off right away since Oppo says warranty, after-sale support, and software updates are all guaranteed. But over the coming months, OnePlus phones will drop their OxygenOS software for Oppo's ColorOS, starting with the Android 17 update. Yeah, but why are they leaving, though? OnePlus framed this as a global strategy adjustment, but Ars Technica is tying the retreat to the memory crunch with RAM alone now accounting for more than a quarter of the phone's bill of materials.

2:50:51Linus Sebastian:And I suspect if you're not selling in at least the States, you might be able to use Chinese RAM.

2:51:01Luke Lafreniere:Yeah, even a dude. apparently people are lined up out the door for cxmt memory at this point like it's any supply that they can build is getting immediately absorbed i think it was apple's asking for an exemption to use it for global devices and like things are things are getting things are

2:51:22Linus Sebastian:getting crazy it is very interesting with sk hynix and samsung making so much money on memory right now because it kind of feels like and micron yeah it kind of feels like they're um

2:51:35Luke Lafreniere:they're almost inviting feast they're almost inviting their own demise here like there's a

2:51:41Linus Sebastian:known famine coming and they're just sitting gorging themselves uh interesting yeah i think

2:51:50Luke Lafreniere:that the ultimate winners are not going to be them but that's not financial advice and i have no idea how long you'll have to stay solvent in order for the market to become rational memory is still a commodity even if today it's an expensive commodity this is going to get interesting at some point yeah scrappy dp says they're inviting competition and the competition was like waiting in the wings and freaking ready they're not just inviting it man when there's like anytime there's that much money involved someone will see it and go hey hey, investing in chasing this unicorn is worth it. And they'll try.

2:52:45Linus Sebastian:And they like, they cooked like steak and garlic bread and potatoes. And then they put a fan that blew out the window and they put a big glowing sign. And they're like, there's also free money in here and everything else you ever wanted. And all you have to do is just do the thing you're already doing. And we'll completely, honestly, get out of your way and leave the house. And you can just have the house as well. that that's yeah that feels honestly like i don't even think i'm exaggerating by the way my wife's a great cook yeah you'll like her like just yeah it's it's wild i've personally never seen something like this and i mean there's a great book i recommended to mr brandon lee recently i don't remember the name of it dan siegel recommended it to me um but it's on how like apple basically sold uh you know american ip how to make modern electronics and stuff to china they exported making phones and stuff there and then also protected chinese interests for like years by lobbying to the american government so they could keep making all of their stuff there and then basically teaching them how to make all this stuff and it's it's a very it's a very interesting like right for over a decade apple was like yeah come on make sure you get better at making all of these things and having all of these uh skills and production lines and everything all over there um is it just called apple in china yeah i don't know it's a fascinating book but i mean it's been not just asked for it's been begged when's the sequel when's the sequel about tesla yeah no seriously though like it's and i mean we we talked about this recently like the the chinese model where companies over there have to be predominantly owned by chinese companies and like if you want to sell there you have to produce there and you have to basically teach them how to do it it's all um it's fascinating man yeah there's this um it's a quote i i got it from something within the last few weeks.

2:54:54Linus Sebastian:I don't know if it was an audio book or a podcast or a YouTube video or what, but it was from something. But it's chaos is a ladder. And it's just been in my head a lot lately. Because you see what's happening right now. Like there is more chaos than I have personally experienced in my lifetime right now, concentrated in the right now. wars all over the planet very active Are you sure you're not just more aware of it? I don't think so I think I think

2:55:34Linus Sebastian:When has there been more sustained economic chaos than now in our lifetimes?

2:55:40Luke Lafreniere:I mean, 2008 was a pretty wild ride.

2:55:43Linus Sebastian:The thing was huge.

2:55:44Luke Lafreniere:Millennials really did get to ride the roller coaster, man.

2:55:49Linus Sebastian:Oh, yeah, yeah. But I feel like 2008 was very concentrated. The right now seems persistent. The right now seems like a new future.

2:55:58Luke Lafreniere:Remember, though, that we were in Canada for the 2008 financial crisis, and it was a much softer blow here. Like, the U.S. got shrecked during the 2008 crisis, whereas we, like, especially in Vancouver, we barely even saw our property values dip. Like, it was a totally different game. Am I remembering this wrong? It was a massive, massive hit, and then it was growing out of that hit, right? Yeah, it was a relatively short-term hit. whereas like right now COVID plus the, a particularly tumultuous period in American politics. Um,

2:56:39Linus Sebastian:which I'm not talking. This is the most chaotic moment. We also lived through nine 11. Sure. I'm talking. This is the most chaotic, like large period of time. And I could be wrong. It just kind of feels like it that way. It might be recency bias. It might be a lot.

2:56:55Luke Lafreniere:I wonder if every generation feels that way. I mean, like from my understanding, the period around like the Vietnam War was like absolute incentive. Oh, in your lifetime. In my lifetime.

2:57:03Linus Sebastian:In my lifetime. There's way, way more chaotic things in history.

2:57:07Luke Lafreniere:I mean, didn't the Berlin Wall fall within our lifetimes? Or no, that might only be me. When did the Berlin Wall fall?

2:57:18Luke Lafreniere:1989. So yeah, I don't think you were born yet. I was. Nope. Okay, so in your lifetime, I'm trying to think, man, most chaos in your life. Yeah, probably.

2:57:28Linus Sebastian:then there's war all over the place right now there's extreme instability geopolitically um i mean we've got we've got countries talking about taking over other countries like constantly right now and both of the really big ones are doing so i remember having this conversation with you

2:57:44Luke Lafreniere:like a while back like years ago on wanshow where i came across um a risk map um like a risk game board that my friend Tyson had in high school and it had like it had like Persia on it or something or like the Ottoman Empire or something and I was like what the f**k like like the countries change because post-World War II that's like not a thing it's like illegal you know and um and it occurred to me I think this must have been around the time that Russia annexed Crimea it occurred to me that But like that was all just kind of not normal that constant conquest and war was not a thing. Like this period of relative global stability that our generation enjoyed for a while was not the normal.

2:58:42Luke Lafreniere:and it almost feels like although you and i might describe what's happening now as chaos it almost feels like a return to how it like you know really worked for a really long time like you look at you look at you know what happened in the lifetime of someone like a napoleon right like how you know within one and remember people didn't live that long i mean the like inventor

2:59:07Linus Sebastian:of total war is maybe not maybe not the fairest example but yeah I hear you. Within one

2:59:13Luke Lafreniere:short French guy's lifetime there were like multiple campaigns that were attempts to take over the known world you know? Yeah yeah yeah. The fact that we've made it to you know almost 40 here and what you're 35? 36? I can never remember how many years younger you are. Somewhere in that range.

2:59:35Linus Sebastian:I'm 90.

2:59:37Luke Lafreniere:okay yeah so four years younger than me um so the the fact that like we've made it this far and there hasn't been like uh like uh like a gigantic land war in europe um is kind of insane to be clear there is a land war in europe right now but the fact we made it this far and there wasn't one was kind of wild and i don't think dude i don't think it's ever going back i don't i don't see a path to it right now man we're getting way off like tech topics

3:00:14Linus Sebastian:right now how did we even get here what were we talking about one plus hell yeah oh right because of sanctions and whatever else i i don't know i could i could see a future where we get away from this um could you will the middle powers unite will that actually work the middle powers might unite i think there's i mean there's there's been a lot of talk about like china taking um taiwan but i've been looking into that more recently and how how a lot of the people on mainland feel about that and it's actually quite nuanced where a lot of the people of the mainland do want Taiwan back, but they don't want Taiwan back with bombs, which is interesting.

3:01:04Linus Sebastian:Because with my previously even more external and ignorant position than I now have, which is highly external and highly ignorant, it felt like they were just trying to find an excuse to just roll the tanks in. But it feels like they want to do it politically. Here's my problem. They might, you know, cloak and dagger politically. Here's my problem with that.

3:01:28Luke Lafreniere:Xi Jinping is 73.

3:01:32Linus Sebastian:They might want to get it before he goes away. It's the same thing as Putin. But then that's the other thing. You said, I don't know if we'll go back. Xi Jinping, old. Putin, old. Trump, old.

3:01:43Linus Sebastian:There may be an expiry date on some of these problems.

3:01:47Luke Lafreniere:Okay, let's start with Russia. You know, Russia has been Russia since long before Putin was involved. Yeah. Russia be doing Russia things. I think all bets are off as far as that is.

3:02:02Linus Sebastian:I do think there could be a lot of pressure, though, if, say, Putin did pass away, for someone coming in to economically turn that place around by not doing the stuff that they're trying to do.

3:02:12Luke Lafreniere:But the most Russia thing ever would be for someone to promise to economically turn Russia around.

3:02:17Linus Sebastian:Or throw more people at the wall anyway.

3:02:19Luke Lafreniere:And then support the oligarchy. Yeah, that's true. So, sure.

3:02:28Linus Sebastian:I can be hopeful.

3:02:30Luke Lafreniere:China, I have no idea. China, I don't understand the history well enough to make any kind of useful prediction. The only thing for me is Xi Jinping is 73. he has from my understanding said pretty clearly that his plan is to reunify china he that he will do it and so that gives us not a lot of time maybe a bit of a timeline yeah

3:03:00Linus Sebastian:yeah i just i don't know i don't i don't give up hope that uh people might be tired of the bad um and bring in some good it does seem to be that things have to get really really really really bad before that happens um so we'll see what that is yeah we won't i mean there's stuff

3:03:20Luke Lafreniere:happens like every week it feels like that would have qualified as really really really really bad within our lifetimes i mean i don't know if you i don't know if you saw this but there the plan for truth social is to sell api access to the banks to get market moving truth social tweets earlier than they are posted publicly through the yeah like that that should be like administration

3:03:48Linus Sebastian:ending um that's just open blatant fraud well it's insider trading more so than all of the other

3:03:57Luke Lafreniere:open blatant fraud well corruption i don't know if it's specifically fraud but it's certainly corruption trading fraud it's certainly insider trading um probably i'm probably using the word

3:04:08Linus Sebastian:correctly oh no insider trading is securities fraud okay there you go then it's it's literally openly selling market moving information um and nobody i it's it's been

3:04:26Luke Lafreniere:it's been remarkable watching the transition that has taken place in my lifetime um like i'm trying to imagine if obama did this instead of wore a beige suit for instance what the uh what the reaction might have been it's yeah it's remarkable i remember bill clinton's uh

3:04:56Linus Sebastian:the the work that was going on under his desk like i i think that would last for a day or two right now.

3:05:02Luke Lafreniere:I don't even know if it would. I mean... Or a couple hours. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe. I don't even know if it would register. I mean, remember, this is the grab-em-by-the-pussy candidate, right? Like, it's... It wouldn't even be... It wouldn't even be surprising at this point.

3:05:23Luke Lafreniere:Hold. Want to see something disheartening?

3:05:28Linus Sebastian:Yeah.

3:05:29Luke Lafreniere:All right. Here, I got this for you. I got this for you.

3:05:35Luke Lafreniere:Hold on, hold on, hold on. Okay, we're going to go US. We're going to go past five years.

3:05:51Luke Lafreniere:And we're going to go like this. Here we go. Guess what people forgot about already?

3:06:01I can't

3:06:03Linus Sebastian:through my screen I can't see this I know you're supposed to guess oh Epstein

3:06:09Luke Lafreniere:you better believe it yeah

3:06:13Linus Sebastian:like okay

3:06:17I remember when people

3:06:22Linus Sebastian:didn't like pedophiles

3:06:24Luke Lafreniere:I do too I remember it fondly yeah

3:06:29Linus Sebastian:It was pretty cool. That was a good time, you know? It was a pretty good time. That was a pretty good time.

3:06:36Luke Lafreniere:Like, I remember when an affair with a grown-ass woman was a scandal. Yeah. Yeah.

3:06:50Luke Lafreniere:Anyway, Microsoft is testing a co-pilot feature called PC Insights that can answer questions by reading your CPU, RAM, GPU, and storage. It's spotted by Windows Latest, and it lets the AI tell you things like, why is my PC slow? Or, what GPU do I have? Or, do I have room for a 100 gigabyte game? And then it taps Windows APIs to check usage, along with storage, battery info, antivirus status, connected devices like printers or USB drives. is opt-in, requires permission each time, and it can't read the contents of your files unless you specifically allow it. It is, however. Yeah, okay. So that was a W.

3:07:35Luke Lafreniere:Are you ready for the L side? It's worth pointing out that Copilot for Windows now ships as a standalone spinoff of the Edge browser and can eat close to one gigabyte of RAM while sitting completely idle, regularly showing up among the top memory users and task manager. so it can tell you why you're out of memory but the answer might be

3:08:00Linus Sebastian:it would be really funny if you could tell it and like oh can you solve the problem with why i have no memory left and it just closes itself

3:08:11Luke Lafreniere:that would be awesome this is rolling out slowly in the u.s only with no timeline for a wider release and lands right as microsoft is separately promising to cut windows 11's baseline memory

3:08:22Linus Sebastian:usage honestly as long as it's opt-in specifically and has the option uh to uninstall it if it has

3:08:32Luke Lafreniere:both of those things sounds great like to be clear i'm not actually hating on this i think it's pretty

3:08:37Linus Sebastian:cool uh but the fact that if this was default all the time and it's reporting back to microsoft because of course it is and it's being tied to your whatever the the gd id whatever thing blah blah blah blah it's gonna blow and i'm gonna be pissed off but opt in people can make their own

3:08:57Luke Lafreniere:choices by the way just the last follow-on point to our discussion of the epstein files uh luke i'm not feeling suicidal are you no okay i'm chilling i would ask dan but i'm afraid of the answer.

3:09:18What?

3:09:19Luke Lafreniere:Maybe I'm feeling murderous. There you go. See, you never know what he's going to say, Luke.

3:09:26Linus Sebastian:He's right, though. I see. He might have trolly answers. I was like, what do you mean?

3:09:33Luke Lafreniere:New York has banned new hyperscale data centers for one and one year. They became the first U.S. state to hit pause on new hyperscale data centers with Governor Kathy Hochul signing an executive order that blocks state environmental permits for up to a year. It applies to any campus that draws 50 million watts or more, which for a modern data center actually isn't that much, since all the big flagship ones are running into the hundreds of megawatts or even gigawatts. Projects that are already approved do keep going. This only hits new ones. the reason comes down to pushback on the ai building boom people are worried about rising utility bills strained power grids and the enormous amount of water that these places use for okay this says for cooling but that's not actually all of it a lot of the water is actually in the construction process um but yes they they can use a lot for cooling especially if they use evaporative cooling but not all of them do there is a nuanced conversation around the water usage So I want to make sure that we are properly representing that a lot of them do use a butt ton of water.

3:10:42Luke Lafreniere:And a lot of them, once they're running, actually use very little. Anyway, during the pause, the state is going to write up a proper regulatory framework. And Hochul is also pushing to make data centers either supply their own power or pay more for it. So regular customers aren't stuck covering the cost. Okay. Yeah. This is one that - That should be obvious. Blows my mind is not the default. Okay, so Luke, I don't know if I've, have I talked to you about when I tried to get into crypto mining at some point? Yeah, okay. So I was -

3:11:17Linus Sebastian:I don't know if you've talked about it super publicly.

3:11:19Luke Lafreniere:I was blown away. Like, when I was looking into it, I was blown away that it is cheaper to get power to an industrial property. Cheaper. literally it's a business subsidy nothing else in life is cheaper for the business version oh it's pronounced hokul sorry guys i i don't know american names um what business laptop more expensive business windows more expensive business camera more expensive business electricity that's cheap it's not from like all the things you listed before electricity were not from the government though okay fine um let me think business land not cheaper business permit not cheaper there okay also from government uh the land from the government uh my taxes sure are property taxes i don't think those are cheaper okay

3:12:31Linus Sebastian:well what's going on here cheaper and also a tax claim yeah it gets weird yeah business tv

3:12:40Luke Lafreniere:not cheaper says etzine or etzelm whatever that is i know a lot of people in bc that do crypto mining basically just scam farm power oh that makes sense that's even cheaper than industrial isn't it i think so i'm not certain is crypto mining still a thing uh a lot of people well

3:12:57Linus Sebastian:i shouldn't say a lot some people especially that have more modern cards for mining have just

3:13:03Luke Lafreniere:pivoted to ai training ai training but is there like crowd you rent it out crowd ai training really shut up

3:13:16Luke Lafreniere:they're now mining pearl what is pearl curious bread

3:13:23man

3:13:26Luke Lafreniere:pearl mining gpu like is this gpu

3:13:30Linus Sebastian:well there's a bunch of these

3:13:32Luke Lafreniere:proof of useful work for ai compute no way of course there's something

3:13:37Linus Sebastian:instead of like crypto mining where you can just run it for like however long you want usually you rent out like a block of time because if you wanted to do something like training or a law a big working task you can't have it just you know be taken from a random pool it needs to actually complete the job right so it's it's a little bit different and now there's a little bit more pressure on like you know do you have a ups do you have a backup generator do you have whatever to make sure that this person's task actually completes oh interesting and there's like reputations tied to things and um it's funky yeah curious brad

3:14:19Luke Lafreniere:says the pearl crypto is just doing useless ai inference matrix it's not actually useful ai training work there's a paper exposing pearl just doing random math for no reason okay yeah i mean i mean i maybe either of us name pearl i don't know no no i i did because i was uh because someone mentioned it in chat um yeah no it was curious bread who is posting that now that that flag pearl to us um okay trey's interesting people are always going to be looking for something to do with all of the extra gpus they have i guess yeah yeah i also know there's like um

3:15:00Linus Sebastian:some people uh even even independent miners that have like pretty solid clusters of gpus views are doing like individual contracts with certain companies and stuff really companies that want a um like this thing we've been talking about of like a siloed like local llf but they don't necessarily have the know-how or access to the hardware or whatever else um man do you

3:15:32Luke Lafreniere:remember luke when i found that uh that property in like white rock that was zoned data center and i was like we should buy it and build like a tiny data center that would have actually been that would have actually been like a banger business move that's that's the extra zeros you needed man you would have made it it might have been fun too though actually like building I wouldn't have wanted to do anything large scale, but building like a small data center. I feel like people are so desperate for compute these days that they would rent anything anyway. So you could be a small player and probably still be functional.

3:16:13Luke Lafreniere:Noki says, we bought a data center, might be the next April Fool's. Nice.

3:16:19Linus Sebastian:I mean, maybe. Like, just to be transparent with people, Well, Flowplane's staring down the barrel of a lot of price increases in regards to our infrastructure costs. So hear me out.

3:16:29Luke Lafreniere:We move it on-prem.

3:16:32Linus Sebastian:Didn't I already pitch this to you? Did you? Have we talked about this though?

3:16:35Luke Lafreniere:I mean, I'm down.

3:16:36Linus Sebastian:Let's move it on-prem. AJ's been doing a ton of work. Let's f***ing go. There's a potential plan where our, have we named our ISP publicly? Probably.

3:16:47Luke Lafreniere:I think so, yeah. ITEL.

3:16:49Linus Sebastian:Yeah, okay. so itell has apparently some like fiber that's basically direct from us yeah into vancouver

3:16:56Luke Lafreniere:yeah into a co-location so no that's that's like that's like what we pay for like we have so that's why our internet connection is so expensive it's because we effectively not quite but effectively because of the provisioning it's it is an unshared link effectively yeah so that

3:17:15Linus Sebastian:link we are 10 gig connects with a co-location data center that we could put servers into yes um so we are looking at and this isn't even like i'm to be clear i'm not mad at ovh yeah we're going to this but ovh's prices are being postured to like erupt and because of normal business things just to be completely honest the the cost of new hardware for them is absolutely skyrocketing. And there are big clients wanting to spend lots of money that want to come in. So this is normal business stuff. But we're looking at what could happen. We don't know that it's going to happen yet. OVH has not said this is going to happen to us or anything.

3:17:58Linus Sebastian:But we're looking at what could happen and going like, okay, well, we're closed. So trying to figure out how we can be not closed. And one of the ways you might be able to be not closed is to put something on Prematvanix. Yeah. That'd be kind of cool. actually. And AJ started looking through a lot of our hardware and apparently some of these servers were just inventoried as the name of the server without all of the individual details of the hardware. So there's actually been a ton of hardware that's been found. And it's becoming much more real. I'm down. As a possibility. There are major problems that I need to talk to you about.

3:18:45Luke Lafreniere:We would need like a proper diesel generator. Like we'd need a proper backup. We'd need...

3:18:53Linus Sebastian:Well, it would be at the Colo Center.

3:18:55Luke Lafreniere:Oh, so you wouldn't put anything here. I thought you meant like take advantage of the 10 gig pipe. I think it has been mixed.

3:19:01Linus Sebastian:It might end up being a three-tier system. Okay. Some's at the Colo Center. Some's at LMG. I think we'd leave some at OVH. Some is still at OVH.

3:19:10Luke Lafreniere:Yeah.

3:19:10Linus Sebastian:Yes. So the main thing that we would want from OVH is probably their public cloud. So the idea would be that we could spill over to resources that are at LMG. But then if we need to spill over even more, we would spill over into scalable stuff at OVH. And that's going to be expensive. We just minimize the use though. Yeah, we're minimizing the use. And if we're spilling over that much, hopefully it's something good that's happening. And then it's okay. And then we'll just scale up the stuff we have and it'll be all right. And that'll just be a strong indicator to like, hey, up your hardware. Yeah.

3:19:43Linus Sebastian:But yeah, there are problems we should chat about off camera. But there's things. But it's a plan. Basically, you know, it's trying to make opportunity out of the bad.

3:20:00Luke Lafreniere:We just have to not throw a USB drive at it and then everything's good.

3:20:04Linus Sebastian:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's crazy. You know, I mean, our server rooms on-prem are pretty okay at this point.

3:20:16Luke Lafreniere:They're actually less trash than they used to be. The one here in the studio sucks. It's just really hard to work in. But the one over at Labs, I think really all I would want to do with that one is I would want to double up the cooling so that if one of them fails, you still have cooling. and then the other thing that i would want to do there is um i we lose power here so much and sometimes for like an hour five hours at a time is we would need to have like on-site

3:20:49Linus Sebastian:diesel generation backup but then we might not because if the primary hardware is at the colo and we still have the spillover at ovh is it more economically reasonable to buffer lmg that much and make it that resilient or should we just rely on the spillover to ovh and then you have to do a calculation of like how often do we expect the colo to go down the colo is not as reliable as ovh is

3:21:19Luke Lafreniere:yeah but then it's pretty good you've also got a factor in as good you got a factor in the economics that are unique to us where anything that we build to be a video change our infrastructure

3:21:32Linus Sebastian:is content baby like if you this is it's a it's a surprisingly complicated question that aj's

3:21:38Luke Lafreniere:working on so if you come to me and you say hey i want to buy a thirty thousand dollar diesel generator i tell you that you can f*** right off and then if you tell me hey i need a thirty thousand dollar diesel generator and we're going to do a two series two two part video series and oh by the way we've got a great sponsor who wants to come in and sponsor it for us i'm like let's

3:21:59Linus Sebastian:go like it's a completely different we're gonna turn off the mains power and see if anyone in the building can notice for an hour yeah and that'll that'll be like the challenge of the video that's a that's banger content dude yeah like that's so cool yeah but there are there are more questions than that but we'll we'll get into it's a longer conversation um it's a little little dead conversation for Wancho. It gets less interesting than video ideas. Hear me out. Hear me out.

3:22:31Luke Lafreniere:For the backup power generation, we used the fire truck that we still haven't managed to sell.

3:22:38Linus Sebastian:So we permanently wire the fire truck into the building.

3:22:44Luke Lafreniere:Did you guys ever read that book? The old steam digger that dug in the big skyscraper and then when it couldn't get out of the hole, they turned it into the steam boiler and it powered the building? No way. That's basically what... That's what we're talking about. That's what we're talking about. That's what we're talking about. That's awesome. Let's go.

3:23:10Linus Sebastian:That is kind of sick. I don't know how I'd feel about losing all that parking permanently.

3:23:16Luke Lafreniere:Put it on the roof. This man. this man are you stupid we'd have to reinforce the roof again we already did the coolest building

3:23:27Linus Sebastian:this is this huge fire truck on the roof he's like why i mean we could gut it and shell it and no yeah it's worth it no you should definitely make it that you could climb up a ladder to the roof and then go into a fully functioning fire truck no we have that we have that roof uh that

3:23:44Luke Lafreniere:roof top thing it could open up into the middle of the fire truck and so you you go up into the fire truck on the roof and then to get on the roof you have to exit the fire truck

3:23:55Luke Lafreniere:oh lordy um anyway yeah i i fully support moving more on prem um on top of prem also i have no idea how viable it would be but um you know you know hetzner right we've done some sponsor spots

3:24:14Linus Sebastian:for them how much do you know about them no i mean i'm aware of them i don't i don't actually

3:24:19Luke Lafreniere:know like a ton okay i was in germany this week i don't know if you know that um yep i often don't

3:24:26Linus Sebastian:know where the heck you are but i did know about that trip just because we were talking about the

3:24:31Luke Lafreniere:yeah so i was in germany and um i went to see hetzner's flagship location in oh god i'm gonna i'm gonna butcher this hetzner dc location uh falconstein falcon yeah falcon no falconstein falconstein falconstein so i was in absolutely buttfuck nowhere germany this week checking out the hetzner data center and as i toured the place i didn't actually say this in the video I don't know if it would have come across the right way to them. But as I toured the place, the one thought that I could not get out of my mind was, this feels like how LTT would build a data center. So, no, no, but I mean that in the best possible way.

3:25:29Luke Lafreniere:So... Yeah, what does that mean? Okay, okay. So, you know how most people would build a data center with 19-inch racks? and probably Dell's or HP servers, right? Sure. Okay, well, they thought, why would I buy a 19-inch rack from a 19-inch rack supplier who needs to make money for building 19-inch racks when instead I could buy four posts and sheet metal? Yeah. Hey. Okay, hold on, hold on.

3:26:00Linus Sebastian:Yeah, okay, that's cool. I like that.

3:26:02Luke Lafreniere:It gets better. why would I use loud obnoxious 40mm shrieking fans on like super skinny builds when instead I could do like a 2.5U so that I could just put a standard 80 or 92mm fan on the back of it pull that air from the cold aisle directly through the CPU heatsink and just make the racks taller

3:26:35Luke Lafreniere:why would i use enterprise hardware when i could just put ryzen 3600s in the rack and people can rent a bare metal ryzen 3600 in fact it's up to them if they even want ecc memory i just let them choose get this get this the cooling the cooling for the entire building So I asked this right when I came in. So the building, instead of being like square with a flat top roof, is like steeply inclined. So it goes to a high point on one side. And the reason for that is that they actually have that entire end of the top of the building open to the air. and the way they get away with this is they have forced air intake that goes down into the the raised floor in the bottom of the raised floor that's chilled that comes up into your cold aisle which exhausts out into your i'll call it a warm aisle because it's not that hot and then that heat naturally through convection makes its way to the top of the building goes right out and it farts it out is how much like is that amount of force of that air able to keep like rain out yes how does that work keeps out the rain keeps out the snow um it gets better like so by having the building shaped like that about they say about four to five days out of the year they have to turn on the um the evaporative coolers but those sit in the lee of the building they sit under the high side and they're on the north side so that the sun never hits them it's just like there's so they they designed their own hvac systems because i don't know they could because buying it from someone else would have been expensive like it's just the whole thing it was the most it was the most ltt that's cool data center that i've ever seen and it just it made me happy touring it it's going to be a really great video you guys uh it i i hope you enjoy the heck out of it i had a ton of fun checking out their data center that's sweet oh yeah here's a

3:28:49Linus Sebastian:good shot of the shape of the buildings oh yeah okay so instead of doing crazy things like building

3:28:56Luke Lafreniere:their data centers in like a densely populated metropolitan area and then building them up they just built it in the absolute farmland country ass countryside and they're just like yeah land is cheap so we just put up these structures next to each other and anytime we need another one we just build another one it's honestly the most based approach to data center building that i've ever seen it's not necessarily like the most cutting edge like they're doing almost nothing with gp multi gpu servers yet um so you know there's a lot of customers that are going to look at this and go yeah that doesn't make sense for me but in terms of just bare metal hosting you can you can get an epic server if you want or a zeon or whatever they'll they'll they'll put anything in your shelf right and i just i don't know i think it's i think it's really cool uh so they i don't know they might be worth us worth us looking at because the rates looked really reasonable when i was checking them out yeah so if we needed something in europe then that may be a way to go like the like the co-location at vanix it would have the challenge of maybe not being as reliable as something like an ovh i mean to be clear they have redundant power they have redundant cooling like it doesn't seem we've had actually like i don't know

3:30:17Linus Sebastian:i don't want to get way too into stuff but yeah it'll be it'll be if it happens which i think it's pretty likely because costs everywhere, not just OVH, everywhere are projected to like in a lot of cases just double when contract renews this year. It's likely we're going to have to be pulling stuff in-house. And it's also, interestingly, likely a decent amount of places will need to in order to keep costs reasonable because just because there's a lot of AI money floating around does not mean that a lot of companies have anything to do with that at all. And if their cost of sales in regards to their infrastructure is just doubling out of nowhere, that's going to hurt some people.

3:31:04Linus Sebastian:So we'll see how it goes.

3:31:05Luke Lafreniere:All right, cool. Sounds like a business meeting later that we can continue not on WAN Show. People love it when we do business meeting on WAN Show though.

3:31:14Linus Sebastian:That's true.

3:31:15Luke Lafreniere:I think they do. I actually haven't checked how viewership is tracking. People used to like it when we did it in the past yeah yeah um hey i thought this was another fun one for you on saturday japan's space agency jaxa successfully launched and landed its experimental rvx rocket in the country's first ever reusable rocket test flight i assume you saw this yeah the flight was pretty short with the rocket rising about 11 meters moving 16 meters sideways and then touching back down in under a minute the goal is a cheaper reusable successor to japan's current single use h3 rocket jack says co-developing the rvx with mitsubishi heavy industries and is separately working on reusable rockets with france and germany jack's next test flight is aiming for a much higher 100 meters discussion question do you think government agencies like jackson will be able to catch up with the likes of blue origin and spacex i mean i think this is speaking of

3:32:09Linus Sebastian:blue origin and spacex check that link out oh

3:32:14Luke Lafreniere:Chinese engineers using wires to perfectly catch rocket booster. Oh, hello.

3:32:28Luke Lafreniere:Oh, that's actually like super smart.

3:32:31Linus Sebastian:Yep.

3:32:34Luke Lafreniere:But hey,$3 trillion company, right? I mean, this is one of those things. it's almost like what we were talking about earlier with the memory memory manufacturers it's like when you when you put a big enough target on yourself don't be surprised when everybody takes a

3:32:52Linus Sebastian:shot well and it's like it's interesting there's there's some questions on like did elon know and is that why they push for ipo when they did um who knows i have no idea um the concept actually just kind of makes a lot of sense. Apparently it had been like theorized by a variety of people in the past because it's like, it's like almost 3d printer logic.

3:33:16Luke Lafreniere:Yeah.

3:33:17Linus Sebastian:Like it kind of does actually make a lot of sense. If you go as far as to think of catching a freaking rocket,

3:33:24Luke Lafreniere:which is crazy at all.

3:33:28Linus Sebastian:Once you go that far, you think about how would I do this? huge chopsticks coming in actually feels kind of crazier than wires on like effectively 3D printer rails and that also allows you to do it at sea instead of on land which there are benefits to doing it on land because you could theoretically reuse that rocket faster it's in place other good things about it um but this is a potentially very cheap route and failures should also be cheaper

3:34:07Luke Lafreniere:blobby bleep bloop um bedhead says lol chinese using string americans using chopsticks

3:34:17Linus Sebastian:oh my god guys i was not okay you need to know like with the stuff that's going on the spacex thing is called chopsticks uh anyways whatever way to go luke yeah it's there's i mean there's a lot of interesting stuff happening in space i was talking to someone at uh open sauce last night who's in a hobby rocketry club in bc which go figure all right i didn't even know there like was any so that's interesting and he was talking about how their school is planning on defunding their hobby rocketry club. And the thing that was interesting to them was they were saying, you know, I'm getting one side of the story or whatever, but they were saying that, and hopefully I'm quoting this all correctly, but they were saying that they were willing to fund themselves.

3:35:07Linus Sebastian:And the school was like, no. And that seems crazy to me because I'm going to do that thing again where I say at any point in time in my life, but it feels like space stuff is getting so extremely active right now including globally

3:35:24Luke Lafreniere:um i mean did you see this uh this wasn't in the doc but did you see the uh leak slash report slash investigation whatever you want to call it that apparently since 2023 the chinese and russians have been working on a way to disable or worst case scenario destroy starlink

3:35:45Linus Sebastian:I mean I'm not surprised no it makes sense if you look at what's happening in Ukraine it's like one of the most important you know accessories to war in that arena at all yeah yeah yeah crazy why would they defund that like my local robotics club that I did in school which is not supported by the school either which is crazy. Yeah, I don't know. It's just the thing that stood out to me was specifically that they've like had it for a while and they want to defund it now of all times. And I'm just like, man, what are you doing? Look at the stock market. Look at whatever. What are you? You're a school.

3:36:28Linus Sebastian:You're supposed to be preparing people for like the jobs they might get into. This is highly applicable. Like what are you doing? It seems like such a weird time to do that. I don't know, maybe the school's on hard times or something, but then at least let the people involved self-fund and still like support it as a thing in the school. I don't know, whatever. It's just very frustrating.

3:36:53Luke Lafreniere:Space race is back, baby.

3:36:54Linus Sebastian:Space race is back. I mean, China and the US have both proposed dates for when they're going to be boots on the ground on Mars again. The States is currently falling behind their timelines. China's pushing. there's it's it's it's interesting to me because neither of the countries seem to want to like really like declare it or acknowledge it but we are absolutely in a space race right now like it is no question it is absolutely fully active it's too bad only one of the competitors is

3:37:25Luke Lafreniere:increasing funding for space and the other one is decreasing it which is yeah sort of seems like it's gonna determine the outcome but uh yeah hey maybe it'll maybe maybe it'll get lucky

3:37:39Linus Sebastian:yeah we'll see how it goes but it's it's it's a very interesting time hey you know what else

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3:40:02Luke Lafreniere:We're going to have a link for you in the description as we always do. All right, I think it's time for After Dark, Mr. Luke and Mr. Dan. All right. You're not going to do your... I'll do that next week. Okay.

3:40:21boop burp

3:40:22Luke Lafreniere:there we go solid I was unprepared let's do this one as well I just have a couple for ya actually it's more than it was earlier wow look at that hello com1, com2, and com3 Luke, on a past WAN show you said you were considering using kagi kagi do you have any updates?

3:40:42Linus Sebastian:kagi kagi

3:40:43Luke Lafreniere:I was right the first time kagi

3:40:45Linus Sebastian:I have dabbled with it honestly I've been not actually searching an incredible amount over the last bit and I have it set up at home. I don't have it set up on this laptop but I have used it a little bit. I've also used it

3:41:07Linus Sebastian:I've been poking around

3:41:12Linus Sebastian:I've been trying something recently called Waterfox and Waterfox recently switched to some open source something search that I've had some success with. I feel like I might end up right now going the coggy direction. It does kind of hurt my brain paying for search, but at the same time, not paying for search kind of hurts my brain a little bit. because again the whole like if you're not paying are you the product I don't know if there's other alternatives outside of Kagi Kagi was just recommended to me by I don't know if he wants the fact that he recommended it public so I'll just say a buddy

3:42:01Linus Sebastian:so I've been enjoying it so far I don't have a ton of experience with it it's not DuckDuckGo Waterfox has been using something else I got a notification saying like oh we're going to start using this whatever search engine and it's it's actually been pretty good inside of there um but i have personally found like the best quality search and this is not this is not a comprehensive review of all the different search engines whatever relax quant that's it yeah q w a n t quant that's the one that uh waterfox has switched to want search and i to be clear i know nothing about this but um search engine that values you as a user not a product oh ray cool um okay i need to look up whoa

3:42:55Luke Lafreniere:okay well it managed to it managed to find one of the oh my god this roundup commercial again for f***s sakes. It managed to find the 10-year-ago one, but not the 12-year-ago one and not the 3-year-ago one. That's better than YouTube search.

3:43:17Linus Sebastian:So Quant, I looked up how does Quant make money. It's in their FAQ. Quant is a free search engine open to anyone. Our main source of revenues comes from ads displayed in Quant result pages. Therefore, every ad that Quant displays fully adheres to the values we defend and our quality standards, blah, blah, blah. We use Quant, no personal information whatsoever is neither captured or transmitted to advertisers in details. No third-party cookies, no trackers, no behavioral targeting, etc. So I suspect a lot of people watching this might align with Quant faster than they would align with current Google search.

3:43:55Linus Sebastian:And I've actually had pretty good luck with the results from Quant. I'm kind of on the side of I've been actually enjoying Kagi because of the lack of those ads

3:44:13Linus Sebastian:it's pretty nice I've been a YouTube premium user for a long time I was trying to watch something with somebody the other day and we were skipping through a few YouTube videos and it was on their phone and they did not have YouTube premium and I was like, I don't know how you survive. Watching tons of ads all the time drives me freaking insane. And I think I'm just really not down with the amount of ads that are everywhere. And if I can pay YouTube Premium to have no interruptions, maybe I'll do that. If I can pay for Koggy and not get ads in my search results, maybe I'll do that.

3:44:53Luke Lafreniere:Quant actually did pretty well. I've been evaluating that search result. so pretty happy this is the one from 10 years ago this is returning our channel which is pretty reasonable for a search that starts with the channel name this is the forum thread for the one from three years ago this is another page of that same thread reasonable enough here's watchplex tv season 2016 episode 64 i didn't even know this was a thing uh like i know colton was working on like free ad supported what is it fast so free ad supported television um i i didn't even know this was a thing but apparently that's a thing anyway it found that and then here it found a reddit thread that got the one from 12 years ago so it managed in the first six or so results to surface every video in some way about low-end GPUs suck from LTT, whereas I was really struggling earlier with Google and with YouTube search.

3:46:04Linus Sebastian:Again, this is not a comprehensive thing on search engines. No, not at all. I found Quant just because I happened to install Waterfox, and Waterfox was like, hey, we're using Quant. And I was like, what the heck is Quant? And then I did a few searches, and I was like, hey, Quant is pretty good. Right now, I would rank Quant above Google search just by default, and Quant is free. so I mean I would just do that automatically and then if you want to be a super premium boy maybe you go the Kagi search direction and pay and then just not have any of the ads which I'm currently leaning towards. I think it seems pretty sweet but Quant, you never know how long these things will last but Quant feels really good right now.

3:46:52Linus Sebastian:DuckDuckGo was the thing for years. And then, I don't know necessarily. Someone asked in chat, why doesn't DuckDuckGo get recommended as much these days? I don't remember what happened. I feel like we talked about it on Wancho a hot minute ago.

3:47:07But, yeah. They're just not recommended as much.

3:47:11Linus Sebastian:I don't know what it was.

3:47:15Linus Sebastian:Yeah, Quant.com. Good stuff.

3:47:17Luke Lafreniere:Okay. More? Yes, Dan. Hello, sir, Danlott and co. You are passionate about your jobs. What keeps you engaged and coming back for the long days? Thanks for the cables and threads. I feel like I've answered this enough times. I can let you guys go.

3:47:40Linus Sebastian:There's an old meme. I don't want peace. I want problems.

3:47:47Linus Sebastian:Well, we got those. I think that's part of it. I don't want to just sit at home and do nothing. I want to work on stuff. I want to try to make things better. And also the people. I really like my teams. I like working with the people I work with. And I would like to try to keep working with them best I can. And then in order to do that, you need to try to create an environment that is cohesive with that. So, yeah, I don't know. I think, you know, there's been topics of conversation with my parents recently about what does retiring look like. And I've had this question of myself for a long time, not that I'm anywhere close, but like what would I want my retirement to look like?

3:48:35Linus Sebastian:And there's a bunch of different versions of it. One that I really like is like an inverse week. and I don't remember whose idea this was. I think it was my mom's. But where you work two days and you have five days off. So your weekend is when you work now and then your entire week is off. Because, you know, the weekend always feels so short. It's like, okay, well now the work week is super short. You have these like really long weekends. I think that'd be pretty sick. It's kind of a cool way of like retiring because I really think it's good cognitively to keep active and stuff, right? You have to know what day of the week it is, you know?

3:49:18Linus Sebastian:Yeah, I think that's actually pretty important, yeah. But then, do I need to do minimum 40 hours every week for the entire rest of my entire life? Maybe not. That seems like if you could avoid it, it'd be nice not to. The other idea I've heard of that sounds pretty cool is the, like, seasonal focus. but maybe i work and fully work yeah three months of the year and then i take nine months off

3:49:51Luke Lafreniere:that'd be that'd be tougher to schedule though because like inverse work week is like yeah you could have a part-time job where you work weekends and you know everyone else who doesn't want to work on the weekend easy we'll have luke do it right whereas like yeah you know i'm thinking yeah maybe October, November, December I'll come in this year and then see you later for nine months like that seems like a tougher conversation.

3:50:19Linus Sebastian:There are some places like you know BC this doesn't happen enough but I used to know a guy I played games with a long time ago who would do landscaping in the warm months okay and would do snow plowing in the cold months. Well I don't

3:50:32Luke Lafreniere:think you're gonna do landscaping but sure do go on.

3:50:35Linus Sebastian:But I think you could I think you could some kind of seasonal work though there are there are some routinely seasonal jobs okay um yeah i don't know how relevant this is with online shopping but i remember when i was growing up you could get a job in high school in the summer or uh in the like holiday season not the summer at all in the holiday season at retail stores because they you know stores would just sell way more stuff so they would hire seasonal employees no there's still seasonality to retail for sure no for sure i just don't know how much a lot how many more okay yeah oh yeah definitely still a thing yeah that was my first entrance into best buy i started as seasonal

3:51:15Luke Lafreniere:ludwig the mad they kept me on posts uh ski instructors are often also river rafting instructors that actually honestly makes sense so you ski on the snow until it melts and then

3:51:32Linus Sebastian:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, so I mean, that's an interesting idea. I think there's a variety of interesting ideas. Someone said freelancing. I think for me, the problem with something like freelancing is, maybe if you've like absolutely made a name for yourself, and then you can get work easily. But if you're not super active in the freelancing space, that might not be the easiest thing to keep doing. when you're only doing it two days a week.

3:52:03Luke Lafreniere:People's memories are very short. And you're competing with people who are pushing.

3:52:08Linus Sebastian:That too.

3:52:08Luke Lafreniere:You can't just be like five days of radio silence in the modern era? Come on.

3:52:15Linus Sebastian:I mean, if you're super famous in a space, you might be able to demand the patience or whatever. If you're anyone else. That's tough. That's tough, I think. I think that's tough. When a board of directors going to politics, politics I don't know if I'm made of the right

3:52:34Luke Lafreniere:metal for that world no but I think that's the problem right is the kinds of people who are attracted to politics are generally not the kinds that we want involved in it yeah so you know maybe you should just do it anyway

3:52:49Linus Sebastian:yeah I do think there is a variety of options though I think I mean at that point in time I would see volunteering routinely and at a place that had like fixed goals and whatnot like it would need to be a fairly serious position of volunteering but i could see you finding some form of non-profit where you're contributing quite heavily in your effort yeah that'd be fun and you're working two days a week or something as as the same level of applicable thing you need something external to yourself that you could pour a lot of care into that needs it and takes effort and has problems and has problems that are naturally created and are important and impactful to overcome.

3:53:32Linus Sebastian:All of those things are important to keep the brain juices flowing.

3:53:36Luke Lafreniere:We're wired so hard to care about things that we invest our own time and our own energy in. And the more time and energy we invest in them, the more we care about them. It's like you can fight it, but it's there.

3:53:54Linus Sebastian:I talked about this I think on the last WAN show but Emma and I have been doing this thing where at night we'll go for a walk and we walk around this really nice park and there's chess tables at the park and we've tied bags to the chess tables and put chess sets inside the bags and at night we'll go by and I'll set the chess pieces back up and we'll make sure that they're all there. And if they're not there, we'll fill the chess pieces back in. One of the thought processes that got us to do this, because the park never provided the chess pieces because obviously people are going to steal them or lose them and then they'll be gone forever.

3:54:36Linus Sebastian:So it's impossible, but you still want to put a chess table there. But it's such a classic problem. I've genuinely seen this a bunch of times where like play areas or parks will have chess tables or one that I've seen too is like the chess thing where it's on the floor. It's like painted on the floor and it's huge as if you have like people-sized chess pieces as if anyone's ever actually really going to engage with that properly. So I was like, man.

3:54:58Luke Lafreniere:Actually, there's one at the Fraser Heights Rec Center that is like a giant chess set that people do. Do they actually have the set there? They actually have it and it's amazing. Is it outdoors? No, it's inside. I've seen one outdoors and you have to go and like request them from the office and they give you like one of those little garbage picker-upper things. You can grab the pieces by the neck and move them around. That's pretty cool. That could work. I could see that working. It's supervised, so you can't make it. Yeah, this place doesn't have an office.

3:55:26Linus Sebastian:All right. So it's not going to happen. Carry on. But anyways, yeah, we tie the chess pieces there. They're there. We go by every night just to make sure. The first couple days, there were a few minor problems. We've had some really cool moments where we lost a bishop, for example. And we couldn't find it in the dirt or anything. Did you ask the cardinal where he went?

3:55:48Linus Sebastian:so we we replaced the bishop with one of the ones that we had in the bag and we went home and then we come back the next day and we check all the pieces and there's an extra bishop nice so someone found me faith in humanity restored it's actually it's actually been fascinating like the very first day some kids tried to steal the bag uh and then emma caught them because she had just put it there yeah and gave them a little like don't do that and they're like oh it's my friends and they're like Like, she's like, no, it's not. And then, but then after that day, no one seems to have tried to steal them.

3:56:21Linus Sebastian:And they've basically just been, you know, probably some little kid accidentally hit them and they went flying. And there's some dirt near it. So especially the black pieces just kind of get lost in there or whatever. But, like, it's been pretty consistent. And a big part of the idea that spawned this is that it's super old. I think it's Chinese or whatever. where it said you should plant trees you'll never sit in the shade of.

3:56:46Luke Lafreniere:Yeah.

3:56:46Linus Sebastian:Part of the idea is that we don't... We do it at night. We're replacing the pieces when nobody's there. Nobody knows this is us. Right. We're just trying to make the park better. I've never actually played chess at those tables. To be honest, I basically only play chess on my phone. Whenever I play chess over the board, it feels very strange. So I'm just used to seeing it digitally. but it's like, I want to do more stuff like that. I don't know what opportunities there are for that, but I want to try to do more stuff like that because it's really cool.

3:57:21Luke Lafreniere:I mean, never forget that what you do here is very important for that. I got this message today, which is pretty much, pretty much made my day. Dear Linus, hi. I know you'll probably never read this, but I wanted to thank you for the role you've played in my career. One of the first videos I've ever watched from you was when you unboxed a quantum computer at D wave for holy shit. Um, well, that was cool. Last week was my first day as an intern at D wave. I'm currently working on multicolor annealing their most cutting edge, uh, qubit control technology. And I'm really excited for where this industry is going without you and your team.

3:57:58Luke Lafreniere:I would not have had as much passion for technology as I do now, let alone even know what a D wave was. Thank you so much. Like that's, uh, we're, I'm going to, I'm going to send that to HR. I'm going to have them print it and put it on the fridges and stuff because I think that a lot of the time it's really easy for us around here to forget. Like I always say it. I'm like our job is to go around and start little fires. And if even a handful of them burn, then we've succeeded, right? But we have so little visibility like your chess sets. You don't see who's playing with them. You don't actually know.

3:58:36Yeah.

3:58:38Linus Sebastian:just to jump in one of the things that's really cool about doing it at night too is we always have this question of like is anyone even playing with them yeah every single day the bags are mixed up that's cool and you'd think it's like a little bit annoying because i have to reset the bags and like sort everything out but it's actually just amazing yeah because every single day i mean it's not like you know one person played with it one time it probably got played with a bunch and that is how they ended up getting mixed up and it's just i don't know it's cool i i've been thinking i want to do like some you know i'm doing pretty well for myself i want to do some type of like budget of sorts because i'm so happy with this chess thing we've been doing of like you know a yearly or monthly thing where we try to like do something like that or we just try to improve the community in some way some tiny little tiny little way i mean you don't small

3:59:37Luke Lafreniere:stuff genuinely small stuff every day someone is touching grass getting some cognitive exercise and interacting with another human being that is you have no idea what that might snowball into compared to what they could have been doing in that time.

4:00:00Linus Sebastian:Yeah, and then realistically, the chess sets... Yeah, it's small.

4:00:02Luke Lafreniere:You talk about how small it is, but I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't think random acts of kindness are ever small.

4:00:09Linus Sebastian:But I think that's why I want it to be small.

4:00:12Luke Lafreniere:Right.

4:00:13Linus Sebastian:You know what I mean? I do recognize that too, but I think it's why I want it to be small is because I want to do the stuff that I think a large organization, like a government or a huge charity or whatever, would never think of because it's a$15 cheapo Amazon chess set. yeah it's whatever there's no way people aren't even taking the pieces sorry there's no way you

4:00:34Luke Lafreniere:bought it on amazon i think oh emma bought it so all right okay yeah i did not um you know what it still counts it still counts still making the world a little better um i was thinking about

4:00:48Linus Sebastian:being able to get away from that by by 3d printing them or something i'm not yeah right um i i'm not stoked on that part but it is what it is um it's but it's like that plus the combination of the fact that people aren't taking them yeah is like this was effectively a 30 investment and it's been like incredible man like i just i don't know it's been it's been super it's been very fulfilling selfishly it has made me feel very good so it's like you know what's funny with the 30 bucks like

4:01:22Luke Lafreniere:dude absolutely i have i have met people that take that to a toxic level where like their whole like it gets to the point where the charity they do is all about being the best at charity and that's their like whole identity to be clear i'm not saying you're anywhere near that i'm just

4:01:41Linus Sebastian:saying i'm sure i can imagine the person growing up in the church you you find some of those people

4:01:47Luke Lafreniere:where the whole point of it is how much more Jesus loves them than anyone else. And it's just like, oh man, dude, it's not about that for crying out loud.

4:01:55Linus Sebastian:It's actually, I think, like, very not about that.

4:02:02Linus Sebastian:Yeah. Yeah. Not the point.

4:02:06Luke Lafreniere:Anyway, hit us up, Dan. Happy Friday, Dan, Luke, and Linus. Why does the future keep being worse than we were promised instead of better, sad face? let's turn it around I blame the internet I think I think to a degree the connectivity and the communication and the interaction online has turbocharged our process our progress I also think that it has turbocharged our worst instincts and our ability to harm each other. I think that it has amplified everything that's great about humanity and at the same time amplified everything that's bad. And unfortunately, cancer grows faster than healthy cells.

4:03:02And I think we're reaching the point where that is becoming,

4:03:10Luke Lafreniere:it's hitting like a tipping point of being extremely problematic. there that's my you asked that's the only reason I'm talking about it

4:03:22Luke Lafreniere:Hello, Dune, Lunas, and Lake. Okay, apparently I'm the only one who's going to answer that. Sure, fine. Oh, sorry. Was Luke going to butt in?

4:03:32Linus Sebastian:Honestly, I was so focused on Linus' answer, I don't remember the core question at the beginning.

4:03:35Luke Lafreniere:Why is everything garbage now? Oh, yeah.

4:03:39Linus Sebastian:I mean, the internet was a really good answer. I think it's because people aren't like Luke, and they're not giving people chess sets. Oh, my God. I have dark sides. No, if we had more of that. Just do one thing.

4:03:53Luke Lafreniere:We should do a new shirt. Be more like Luke. Oh my god. I'll wear it. Except 99 % of the stuff that he does. I still wear my Luke Newcomb shirt very regularly. It's like one of my weekend shirts. I've seen you wear it before. Oh yeah, I ran into it Bubble World and I was wearing it, right? Yeah. Yeah, nice.

4:04:17Linus Sebastian:Bubble World is great. crap what was I going to say I think it's not this is so true for so many things it's not inherently the internet it's what the internet has kind of become I remember the

4:04:37Linus Sebastian:my first foray onto the internet it was so much goodness there was pretty much always bad stuff on the internet, but there was so much goodness. And now with the mass commercialization, with the amount of insane amounts of money being poured into trying to control your brain as much as they possibly can with infinite scrolling and physical addiction to hand movement and maximizing humanity's constant draw towards anger and hatred and how that has killed a lot of journalism, to be completely honest, and how we're i mean we talked earlier in the show about how even what remains of good information on the internet is rotting away because i generated articles and the erosion of trust

4:05:26Luke Lafreniere:and experts which is has been a fascinating one for me to to watch like i i believe my dentist when they tell me when she tells me about something about teeth and that's like not to be taken for granted anymore i believe my doctor when she tells me about a vaccine or about a treatment um and it's like that doesn't mean that she's perfect or whatever or that she'll always get it right but like in general i'm i'm asking her not a podcaster and that's not to be taken for granted anymore and it's been wild for me to watch that in my lifetime jay schmied says i miss good news when okay okay we'll bring it back a little more good news next week sorry you guys yeah yeah there was some bad

4:06:12Linus Sebastian:parts earlier in the show but this was this was a question which you know not much we can do about that we're doing we can but yeah i think i think i'll still say the internet but i'll say what the internet became not necessarily how it started okay hello dune lunison lake what if your whole

4:06:30Luke Lafreniere:game was your nft that you could buy and resell on a marketplace like an online game stop would this help the ownership problem that we are facing okay i'm gonna let you finish but why does it have to be an nft yeah what oh no no no i understand what they're saying basically they're asking for a transferable digital license it doesn't have to be an nft and there's no way that you know the microsoft's and sony's of the world would would allow it to be managed off you know their own authentication chain so to speak but um no i mean if if a digital asset was transferable yeah sure if a digital asset was was tracked and transferable in a central location versus a decentralized or whatever i don't think that matters and yeah it would totally help the ownership problem we're facing but it also sort of wouldn't because you still wouldn't own the zeros and the ones that would still be um inactive without a central authentication server at least in the current sort of way of things working.

4:07:32Luke Lafreniere:So I just kind of talked around it, but yes, but also no, but also yes, kind of, but also no, not really. Does that make sense?

4:07:46Luke Lafreniere:Last one I've got for you today. Hello, Linus, Luke, and Dan. Love the DMS home theater video. This one is mostly for Luke. When is a non-essential tool or tech purchase worth it

4:07:59Linus Sebastian:just because it makes life easier oh uh makes life easier if you can afford it often yeah i think they kind of answered their own question yeah if it genuinely makes life easier yeah sick i mean i've done a bunch of that i mean a a guilty a guilty purchase that i have would i say that i have an eight sleep i don't recommend an eighth sleep because of a variety of things we've talked about on a way and show very extensively so i'm not going to go over everything again but um it makes my life easier uh when it's when it's not set up i am sad and i don't sleep as well and when it is set up i am happier and i sleep better that's yeah that thing was expensive as hell yeah and deeply problematic and very deeply problematic I don't think I'd buy another one.

4:08:57Linus Sebastian:I would search for alternatives immediately, though, because it's like they're pretty sick. Yeah, I don't know. Making life easier is a pretty strong reason to buy something, to be honest. You made it sound like it's like so minor. That's why you should buy something. That's like what it's all about, man. You just got to make sure you can afford those things.

4:09:23Luke Lafreniere:Like if you ask Luke, like, when can I justify a plastic doodad? You know, he'll be like, never put away your wallet, brother. But when can I justify something that makes my life easier? It's like, yeah, you're not going to get a lot of pushback around here. $20 ,000,$40 ,000, you're worth it, sister.

4:09:45Linus Sebastian:I'm even like, again, people call me cheap, man. But like, if you can buy, like, there's some expensive things. where like if it's a if it's um i don't know like my grandpa used to talk about boots all the time yeah boots pretty traditional where he's like you know buy a good pair of shoes buy a really good pair of shoes because you know not only should they be comfortable but you also want them to last for a long time and yada yada yada it goes into all these different things like have a good pair of shoes don't cheap out on your shoes buy like expensive but he doesn't mean expensive go buy Louis Vuitton thingies with the red bottoms or whatever.

4:10:25Linus Sebastian:He means like buy a good quality, well-constructed pair of boots or shoes.

4:10:29Luke Lafreniere:You know, what's really funny is, uh, I leaned really heavily on, um, what is it? Sam Vimes? Yeah. I, I, I leaned really heavily on that, um, for the launch video for our socks. Oh yeah. Yeah. I was talking about how, um, like being able to afford better socks up front was saving me overall on socks back when the uh the champion ones that i used to get at costco became in shitified people are calling me out because i have ratty shoes i

4:11:04Linus Sebastian:do have ratty shoes but those are the most that's a whole that's a whole thing with him you can't rebuy them yeah there i he would buy 10 of them today if he could it's not a question of whether he'd spend the money it's i was quite genuinely on ebay last week trying to find more of them.

4:11:22Luke Lafreniere:Yep.

4:11:23Linus Sebastian:Because they're not new. You can't buy them. I have a newer pair of shoes. I do wear them. I find them very annoying in a variety of ways. And I often go back to my older ones because they are significantly more comfortable. So really what it comes down to is Luke

4:11:38Luke Lafreniere:wouldn't mind buying things, but nobody builds anything that lives up to his standards.

4:11:43Linus Sebastian:Yeah, yes. I'm just too discerning. He'd rather own nothing

4:11:49Luke Lafreniere:and be happy. Then buy something inadequate, something lesser.

4:11:55Linus Sebastian:I think that's noble. To be completely honest, that is often kind of true. I know. Do not lower your standards.

4:11:59Luke Lafreniere:Dude, I was like 8 % joking, like not negative.

4:12:03Linus Sebastian:It's like a little bit joking, but it's not that much. That is pretty real. I'm pretty happy buying like a quality craftsman, whatever, nice thing that I can keep basically forever. If I have to buy something that's junk, I'd really rather not. I'd really rather like, okay, can I like rent this thing or borrow this thing? Always.

4:12:27Luke Lafreniere:Go ahead, Dan. Sorry. Yeah. The other nice thing is generally the more expensive or high quality something is the more repairable it becomes. Yep. They're easier to service. There's more parts available.

4:12:38Linus Sebastian:Not a rule that always works. No. It is a rule that sometimes works.

4:12:41Luke Lafreniere:Never a rule. Like washing machines, you get industrial stuff. We were talking about this. You were looking for a fridge or something like that. I was like, there's a repairable fridge. that will last for 400 years, it's probably$40 ,000. Yeah. They exist. You just probably can't afford them.

4:13:00Linus Sebastian:Yeah, I found this. Our washer and dryer was having issues and it's fine right now. So I'm no longer in the market. But I was trying to find like, okay, what's a very reputable, high quality, repairable washer and dryer? Nope, they do exist.

4:13:15Luke Lafreniere:Oh yeah, they do. Yeah, how much you want to spend though? It's a lot of money. and i'll tell you working on them it's a lot of money a dream they're like designed you like you you undo two screws and then you pull the thing out and all the circuit boards like fold down and lock and all the wires are long enough so you can get to the whole thing and the company support is amazing and they'll just tons of people in chat speed queen okay i'm

4:13:40Linus Sebastian:looking this up sorry dan i was listening no no no totally i'm just rambling built better

4:13:44Luke Lafreniere:to last longer.

4:13:46Linus Sebastian:They do exist. I didn't even say the name of the brand, and like four people got it in a row, and no one said any other brand. Okay. Okay, scroll all the way down.

4:13:58Luke Lafreniere:No prices.

4:14:00Linus Sebastian:I'm in a condo. I need vertical stacking units. So let's scroll all the way down.

4:14:04Luke Lafreniere:Okay, all the way down. Stacked washer, dryers. Okay, so these are dogs for scale, but then also sometimes a cat. Oh, these are just different colors anyway. so let's go electric electric no i think yeah okay only four stars i guess depends on what people are expecting from is this is this us dollars uh probably that's actually less than that's less than i thought yeah i mean is this a this is still about double what you would pay for like a regular one double to triple mine was made in 1970s it's gonna outlast me nice so i don't know it doesn't have anything electronic in it i also don't know 100 like

4:14:43Linus Sebastian:is the is the stacked are the stacked versions of as high regard as the individual units or whatever get a front loader ever yeah and this is a front loader wait these top loads are not even

4:14:58Luke Lafreniere:like that bad here's their top load washer it's like 1600 bucks it's american i don't think they

4:15:03Linus Sebastian:sell them in Canada, you'd have to import it so you're paying duties and everything else. I'm fairly certain they're not in Canada. They might be, but I don't think so.

4:15:12Luke Lafreniere:You must allow functional cookies. Okay. Functional cookies. Confirm my choice.

4:15:19Linus Sebastian:No, you aren't looking at the good one. What's the good one then?

4:15:22Luke Lafreniere:Okay. What's the good one? Well, why do they, why do even these guys have a bad one? Yeah. That's the TR7. That's the like, that was the one on the far left.

4:15:32Linus Sebastian:I don't 100 % know if I

4:15:37Linus Sebastian:You know

4:15:38Luke Lafreniere:Like higher number more better right

4:15:41Linus Sebastian:I mean I think so

4:15:43Luke Lafreniere:Am I missing something here Okay TR3 no that's like the same Price

4:15:48Linus Sebastian:Yeah Ross I think people just Import them

4:15:57Luke Lafreniere:Surf and Sam asks hey Dan Why never get a front loader just because they leak right And if there's a problem and it's full of water and the drain is broken, where the pump goes very traditionally on a washer, now it's full of water. What do you do? Oh, I see. You can't get a bucket in there or a wet dry vac and suck it all out. It's not a good idea. Got it. Not a good idea. There's a brand that we used to work with a bunch. They're called Splendid. They're very expensive. They're like compact spaces. So it's a washer-dryer combo, but it doesn't have an exhaust hose. So you can put it, like, in a cupboard.

4:16:46Luke Lafreniere:Because it recondenses the, like, dryer exhaust. And so you can fit them in, like, a space that's the size of it. Oh, this is, like, for boats or something, right? Yeah, but I mean, they're in domestic places too, but they're like really high end. That's crazy. Splendide. S-P-L-E-N-D-I-D-E. Splendide. Splendide laundry centers. Designed to fit where others won't. I don't know what the accent that's supposed to be. Don't worry about it.

4:17:24Linus Sebastian:I mean, they are. That was great.

4:17:28Luke Lafreniere:okay that's probably not how i would do it but sure our collection premium detergent vented combo compact washer okay all right most reliable okay whoops that was a mistake all right

4:17:53Linus Sebastian:anyways we can probably stop talking about washers and dryers yeah sorry hyper focus.

4:17:58Luke Lafreniere:I think we can stop talking about everything. We'll see you again next week guys. Same bad time, same bad channel. Bye.

4:18:08Linus Sebastian:So sudden. Conversation over.

4:18:16Luke Lafreniere:This was a nice visit. Get the f*** out of my house.

4:18:22Linus Sebastian:I'm going to start saying that in my guess.

4:18:25Luke Lafreniere:Alright everybody watching