Is ‘Alien: Earth’ Stuck in Place? Plus, Emmy Predictions and ‘Big Little Lies’ Season 3 News.

19:26Andy Greenwald:I watch with the people. That's right. Me and Martha Plainton. Everybody says you, you're down there in the trenches. I would say that it's more finely integrated, but incredibly notable for people like us, for people from Philadelphia. Okay, that's exciting. Blend it in though. Blend it in. But there's a couple of Whoa, did I just hear that? I'm very excited about that. Well, tune in on Monday. Thanks for today's show, everyone. Well, I want to talk to you a little bit about the Emmys. I did a little bit of, I would say not extensive, but moderate historical research because I was like, you know what?

20:00Did you really? I've always been such a dick about the Emmys or at least very dismissive of their importance. And I often think to myself. I don't think you've said that before. I just think, you know what the delta between what wins and what people or what I or my, you know, people I talk to about television talk about as great television versus what won a lot at Emmys is just so huge that I find myself often like being very kind of like, who gives a shit who wins an Emmy or doesn't? I know who gives a shit, the people who are nominated for Emmys.

20:31Andy Greenwald:For sure. one thing that I think is tough with the Emmys is that when you look back and you're like ooh I would love for X to win wouldn't it be amazing if Y was recognized for its accomplishments just never really happens in fact the surprises with the Emmys especially over like I would say maybe like the time that we've been doing this podcast is generally like there is something that is really good universally acknowledged as such And everybody is like, oh, it's truly Jonathan Banks' time, and he doesn't win. You know, like something else. The surprise is... Ray Sehorne last year. Yeah, it's like the surprise goes against, let's just say, critical conventional wisdom, if not conventional wisdom.

21:13So I wouldn't get my hopes up that if you're out there and you're like, maybe Andor will shock the world and win Outstanding Drama, which isn't the only outcome that I will allow. I mean, of course, like I love a lot of these shows that are nominated for outstanding drama.

21:31Andy Greenwald:But you're saying people should reset their expectations. Well, not even that. I think I was just talking to myself. I think as I was trying to like kind of look for precedence of was there ever a time when like, like, am I wrong or did Madman come out of nowhere and win? It hasn't really happened that much. There are things where you're like, oh, OK, like maybe the first time. I don't even know, like maybe the first time the crown won. And maybe people were like, oh, okay, so you guys really like The Crown. And then it was like The Crown just wins three times in a row. I think that's exactly right.

22:01Andy Greenwald:There was a time, you know, when the Golden Globes, in their previous obscure shadowy cabal iteration, would, to get headlines, to differentiate themselves, be early anointers. The example I always use is Homeland winning best drama series when I think the first season hadn't even finished airing. Yeah. And then and they would always the Golden Globes, I think, prided itself on being a little bit more radical, a little bit more conversation driving. The thing that the Emmys tend to do is clarify what is mainstream in a way that is increasingly difficult in this super fractured media, but television especially ecosystem.

22:40Andy Greenwald:system. So when Hacks won the first time, I think there was a lot of excitement and celebration, both because Lucia and Paul and Jen are very talented people and very likable people and the show is really good. But I think it was also like, oh, a little Joe Pesci. You guys were serious about that. You're all watching this and you like this? What the Emmys then does is, you know, dust off its hands and just spam the button and only vote for the same thing again and again after that once you've crashed the party. That said, I think there are going to be some first-time, pretty prominent first-time winners this year, but for a show like Andor, which is obviously critically adored by this podcast, but there's no chance of...

23:21Very similar to The Wire, where it's like the ball-knowers know, but I think it's a difficult show to... If you haven't watched all of it and you aren't fully versed with it, I think people are probably like, eh, yeah, but it's Star Wars. And instead it's like, and I also think Outstanding Drama just has so many heavy hitters in it.

23:41Andy Greenwald:But also try and remember in this case, similar to The Wire, created by David, I should say. The Wire existed at a time when HBO was pot committed at that point and they were going to finish the show. Andor is finished. So the Emmys could burnish its long-term reputation or maybe draw a few extra eyeballs to it. Although to your point, like these are very, very textually dense shows. the nomination for a show like Andor I do think, I mean I would love for it to win but I think the nomination is the victory lap on what was already a triumph. Other shows, the needle could be moved in their survival if they do triumph.

24:19I was just going to say that with the exception for Outstanding Drama and I thought maybe we could do Should Win, Will Win here. And let's start with drama instead of comedy because comedy is like a separate conversation about what is a comedy I think. We're the ones to have that conversation yeah i mean that where that's the that's the debate i think we've embraced the most uh for drama i think you could make an argument for every nominee except for probably slow horses that it and i like i love slow horses but it that it could or should win uh with maybe the exception of paradise you know what i mean like i i'm aside from our like incredible affection for one episode of paradise i don't necessarily think it's an accomplishment on this level although So I would argue that Paradise and the Diplomat of these nominees might be, and Last of Us, I guess, might be like the most watched.

25:09I have no idea, like honestly, but like.

25:12Andy Greenwald:Paradise makes sense for me in the same way that Dan Fogelman, the creator's previous show, This Is Us, constant nominations made sense in that like this isn't, you know, it's hanging on. but it is still an industry town and people who work on TV and work regularly on TV do and get to vote do like to celebrate something that feels more meat and potatoes. Like we used to make things in America. Like this is a TV show that takes wild swings, goes for it, is not aimed at the ivory tower and is going to be back in 11 to 12 months. Like that, that matters. So I understand why it's there. So I'll just say that the outstanding drama nominees are Andor, The Diplomat, The Last of Us, Paradise, The Pit, Severance, Slow Horses, and joining us in a regular drama series.

26:03I believe it had two seasons of being a limited series, right?

26:07Andy Greenwald:I think it had jumped for this last season, but I could be wrong. Okay, The White Lotus. First of all, pretty solid. Yeah. Pretty solid list. I think the outlier is Last of Us because it... I don't know. I am not, despite my Sunday night viewing habits, I am not a reliable voice of the people on this, but it did not seem like it matched the audience approval level of the first season. Very hard to tell because of the gamer community, with all due respect. Their outrage at the lack of fidelity to the video game I think is tough. I also think that it was barely a season. It was, truly though, like it was very short.

26:53Andy Greenwald:It peaked early and it demands the second half in order to tell a fuller story. That feels more like entropy to me. Like, well, the first season was an accomplishment and ratings. And so here we are. You know what? That was a very like astute summary of I think where that season ended up, even though I think I liked it more than you. It's weird, though, because even 10 years ago, this category was when you voted for best show, but it was like, what's the analogy? It's like MVP season of an ongoing career. The sense was that a lot of these contenders would be back in the arena next year. And this year, West Wing got the best of.

27:39We don't need to do LeBron this year because he's going to be up for MVP for the next 10 years.

27:45Andy Greenwald:But now we are in a sort of a strange mix of shows that we are celebrating because of their reliability and their consistency. In this case, it would be Slow Horses, The Pit, and I would imagine Paradise. And then shows that are kind of sort of still in the wrong category, but it's okay, like Andor and White Lotus. And then there's Last of Us, which is on a two to three year cycle. And Diplomat sounds kind of an offside. Diplomat is more traditional in its entertainment goals than its reach, but it's had kind of a herky-jerky release schedule, too, if I'm not mistaken. The first season's about to come out.

28:20Andy Greenwald:So it caught up, so maybe that was strike-affected. But the second season was shorter than the first season. Anyway, we don't need to—but Severance also is another example of it. It's like, when it pops up, it's going to be continued here. See you in 28, brother. Exactly. What do you think should win here? This is— And this can be different than what do you think the best show in this category is? I mean, I think that of these shows, the best season of television, the best across the board is Andor. But I'm going to say should win, will win is The Pit. Me too. Because... But I'm saying I don't think winning Outstanding Drama is not bringing Andor back.

28:59That's right. Andor is perfect. Andor will probably be my favorite show of the year. Yep. I just think that I want the most amount of people possible to watch The Pit.

29:10Andy Greenwald:I think we're on our way. And The Pit is coming back in January. And it's like, let's keep it rolling, you know? Yeah. So maybe that's, yeah, that's kind of what I'm saying. It's not about, it's not a aesthetic kind of like critical judgment on what the best show is. I just think it would be great if The Pit won Best Drama. Well, I think this is also an example of one of those like tweak categories that we sometimes come up with when we're suggesting how they could do it differently. It's like a, I don't know if it's like a record of the year versus album of the year. Is it achievement in television, which would be best show of the year, which would combine things from across categories into one category of excellence and or is the best achievement.

29:47Andy Greenwald:But I think that, again, it's like this season was absolutely jaw-dropping, but it's hard not to think of it as one whole across two seasons. We can go through the other categories a little bit quicker, but it's Outstanding Comedy is Abbott Elementary, The Bear, Hacks, Nobody Wants This, only murders in the building shrinking the studio and what we do in the shadows.

30:13Should win, will win. I think the studio will win. The studio is going to win. And I think...

30:25I think the studio should win. Yeah, it's my guy! You know, we are consensus builders. Do you want to know why? Yeah. I'm tired of having the Hax the Bear fight. that's exactly right. You guys can't figure it out between the two of you work it out. He's going to get it.

30:39Andy Greenwald:I think that's right. First of all, you'd be a great dad. That's exactly right. I, I agree. I'm going to have a third kid to see if that works though. I don't know. Oh, great, great point. Right now. I'm just, I just take the conch shell from Lord of the, from Lord of the flies and just give it to one and then give it to the other. They love it. I tell them about meme stocks. We have a good time. Um, I, I agree. I also think that we need fresh blood in this category. Like, but again, I don't know. Maybe it's circling back to your point about like how seriously we take the Emmys. I would be fine with Nobody Wants This winning because it was new.

31:17Andy Greenwald:It was popular and it is changes. Pretty fun. Yeah, it's fun to watch. That's fine to me. What we do in the shadows of these shows is probably the funniest on a consistent like joke to joke basis. but the studio if there was that best show category I think would be in that category just in terms of the achievement and the filmmaking and the style and the personality and the vibes and in addition to the performance and the comedy so I think it's really impressive I think the creative arts Emmys last week made it clear that this town loves shows about this town and the studio is going to win Outstanding Limited to wrap things up Adolescence Black Mirror Dying for Sex Monsters The Lyle and Eric Menendez Story or the penguin.

32:01I can't believe how chalk we are here. Should could, should will is adolescence, I think.

32:07Andy Greenwald:Adolescence should. It's no disrespect to the other shows in this category. It's not even a conversation. Do you think that the penguin's going to win? The penguin has a chance to win this, yeah. We don't... I could actually see adolescence dying for sex or the penguin winning. People love dying for sex. Talk about these people. Who are you talking to? People who have watched Dying for Sex are like, this is a very important story to me. I did not engage with it, but I'm just saying. I think that that is a similar argument you can make for adolescence, and I think this will be the test of how many people...

32:45Andy Greenwald:I won't watch adolescence because I have a feeling it's going to fuck me up, upset me. We don't know how big that voting block is, but it's not insignificant, and that would be the impediment to it winning, and I think it's similar to Dying for Sex, So people are like, this also kind of seems like a bummer if it's more the first word than the last word, which would clear a lane for the Penguin. Can you imagine you giving notes? Can we get more of the sex? Can we choose one of the other? That's fine. Guys, guys. That's the note I gave to Twisters. I'm very happy to give that note again. it is really interesting the way the penguin which costs upwards you know 200 million dollars or whatever a major major show costs these days on a top tier streaming service has become weirdly like an underdog in the way that it is discussed and championed um that's a testament i guess to the to the job that was done to make the show what it was like again we didn't i think because onto it.

33:44Because it was, it has all the hallmarks of what would be a kind of classic HBO crime show that just happens to take place in Gotham with a guy wearing a prosthetic suit. And Colin.

33:57Andy Greenwald:Yeah, right. They're great. I just really hope, and I think this might be too much to ask, I would really like to see new winners. Like, no disrespect to Jean Smart, who is no less good in season four of Hacks than she was in seasons one, two, and three. It would be nice to see someone else win. I think that would just make for a better broadcast, but also would be a healthier sign of an industry. You know, I think we didn't touch on it, but like we both think the pit should win and will win. It's competition of severance, which I think would also be fresh blood and would tell. But it would I think it would tell a different story about the industry right now.

34:34Andy Greenwald:And I'll say that, like, this isn't breaking any news. But on the other side of the glass, the show everyone is chasing now is the pit. Sure. like industry wise that's the show people want to be making and i just top of your head they're probably the answer is they're probably both bad but would you rather see a b minus knockoff of the pit or b minus knockoff of severance it's really hard to say those are completely different flavors and they are both unique in in the ways they are successful the answer honestly is we're probably going to get a lot of both um but i don't know if one is easier or better to watch or more preferable?

35:12I guess probably I would say The Pit because the breath of fresh air that it is to see a kind of like a story grounded in reality even if it's a heightened reality or even if it's a compressed reality is so cool and refreshing and it's like I think even for how harrowing adolescence is like seeing something approximating real life depicted on screen has been like such a boost for me that I don't really need another allegory for what life is like. I'd kind of like to see a little bit more of what life, but that's just where my taste is. It's a good segue to Aurelien talk, honestly, because I'm feeling that the only

35:55Andy Greenwald:other thing I'll say is the funniest outcome to look for, um, on Sunday night would be in the supporting actor, supporting categories in drama in supporting actor and drama series. We have, one, two, three nominees from Severance, one, two, three nominees from White Lotus, and James Marsden from Paradise. All these dudes cancel each other out, and Marsden victorious. Marsden walks away as the prez. Same thing could happen. The Wildcat. You remember, Wildcat Cal. President Cal. Also, it would be amazing for a guy to win an award for a role in which he dies in the first episode. That is not a spoiler, I don't think.

36:33Andy Greenwald:He's in the whole season. I think that's in the commercial, but I don't know if that's true. so there you go whatever do you want to just like beep that i think that would be fun for people he blanks in the first episode just to say that could happen what would the alternative be it's either dying or sex the whole world baby two doors what are you choosing don't start looking at rogan to give you advice for that too joe what do we do supporting actress in a drama series it could go the same way we've got uh we got patty arquette severance we got carrie coon white lotus parker posey white lotus natasha rothwell white lotus amy lewood white lotus the queen katherine lanassa for the pit but what if julianne nicholson just emerges from the wreckage much like her character what's her name jazbo what is it coltrane coltrane okay sure isn't it yeah yeah uh she could win she won last week for a guest appearance so what if it's guest appearance on hacks guests in a comedy.

37:33Andy Greenwald:Wow. But doesn't that bode well for Hacks' acting chances? Hacks could win comedy again. People love voting for Hacks. This episode is brought to you by Welch's Fruit Snacks. Back to school season can be tough on parents, but choosing a snack you and your kids can both get behind doesn't have to be. Stock up on Welch's Fruit Snacks, made with whole fruit and now made with no artificial dyes. It's a snack kids already love and one you can feel good about giving them. Go back to school with Welch's Fruit Snacks, now made with no artificial dyes.

38:09This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast instead of doom scrolling? Smart move. Another smart move? Getting help from one of State Farm's 19 ,000 local agents when you choose to bundle home and auto. Bundling. Just another way to save with the personal price plan. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state.

38:59good. Offers worth bragging about. Sell your car today on Carvana. Pickup fees may apply. Let's talk about Alien Earth, episode six, The Fly, written by Noah Hawley, directed by Ugla Hawksdawcher. Icelandic. Written by Noah and a co-writer. Oh, yeah, and Lisa Long. Sorry. I'm going to give you three choices.

39:19Andy Greenwald:Spoilers for this episode. Okay. Also, spoilers for the first season of Paradise, just sprinkled in ways that you can never possibly predict. And apparently dying for sex. It's in the title. Yeah. You think that had a happy ending? Sex sometimes does. Sometimes. Not always. Everything that we just saw over this last episode was one of three things. Okay. It's either Noah Hawley as the writer, creator of this show, having very little interest in proper lab techniques, workplace safety. It's true. the monitoring and oversight of multi-billion dollar investments in terms of these synthetic kids or hybrid kids that are now like super soldiers but also super scientists but also trauma survivors just kids you know so it's either he's like don't worry about it so much dorks like it's fine this is cool to watch a fly spray acid in a robot's face now it's door one door two is this is all being orchestrated by the character Kirsch.

40:34Yes. The Timothy Oliphant character who is observing much of what we see over the entire season, really. He's second screening this whole show. Yeah, he is second screening this whole show. And is one of the most delightful creations, I will say, in the Alien Universe non-xenomorph category. And it's unclear as to whether or not he is just taking this all in as a synthetic and watching humanity and its creations at its worst. Or if he is perhaps a double agent working for Yutani or maybe is working on behalf of something even greater. Unclear. And then I guess door three would be Noel Hawley thinks everything he's doing makes total sense and it just doesn't.

41:24Because this was an episode that I found, I think some people were like, I hated watching the fifth episode because people were so dumb. And I was like, I guess I can make some excuses of like, what kind of level of scientist decides to spend the rest of their lives on a spaceship? Or perhaps these are kind of like the, you know, not the best and the brightest, like we talked about. And like, there's something kind of interesting about watching people being overwhelmed by their circumstances in this incredibly extreme environment. But this was just kind of like, too loosey-goosey for my taste to the point where I don't think that the season fell apart.

41:58I'm very engaged with what happens. I'm so into Morrow. I'm so into Kit Kirsch. It's really exciting. That stuff is really fascinating to me. And there's still some really great, cool filmmaking and vibes going on. But I really don't want to turn into a lifeguard being like no one would ever do that in real life. But there's just some gaps and jumps here that get made where it's like, how does Wendy know that Nibs was saying to people that she was pregnant? Since Nibs basically only tells the therapist and then gets put into a battery recharger. You know, like, there are certain things that I think were just done out of convenience or maybe out of, like, stitching things together.

42:39Andy Greenwald:Yeah. And then just, you know, do only four people work at this place? Like, what's going on? Well, God, there's a lot to unpack there. I think that... What do you think? Which door do you want to walk through? I think we might need to reno the whole house because I think that it's clear that Kirsch is up to something and there are other cards left to be turned in the rest of the season, which I'm curious about as you are. um i think that uh the it's no fun to sit around and like pick logical nits throughout all of this but that's kind of where we are because increasingly the show seems determined to tell us what it's about and the showing feels a lot more rote like well this is happening because this has to happen to get us to that.

43:33Andy Greenwald:Now, biggest caveat of all, we touched on this at other points in our conversation about the season. I'm not a horror movie guy, but I feel like I get the gist enough to understand that part of the magic trick, and it is a magic trick in a way, of getting people back to the theater again and again for horror movies is obscuring the fact that it's a bad decision to go into the basement where the lights go off. Yes, but those people tend to not be... The best and the brightest billionaires. No, assembled from a large language model computer and indestructible bioskeletons. Those people tend to be teenagers or idiots who are like, I guess I got to go down this hallway.

44:18Andy Greenwald:I think a marginally compelling bit of water carrying for how the season has gone to me, like I'm willing to hear out this argument, is the idea that, and this ties into the Laughmore Dorks reading of it, is that in some ways this is all a satire of... Our current technological overlords and stuff like that. And end times tech lord capitalism stuff, where you can have trillions of dollars, but no common sense, or no actual connection to humanity, and thus we are always going to end up as chum for something smarter or savvier or more vicious. Okay, that's fine. I think the problem that I had with this episode was the cascading decisions just don't add up.

45:11Andy Greenwald:And so even when you have a scene that is... So use the example of Nibs. Nibs is powered down. they're doing the old Super Nintendo trick of unplugging and plugging back in seeing if it works that's how I used to get Mortal Kombat to work and it did for a time and it costs the Sylvia's their marriage and then also one of the Sylvia's his life this rupture over what they're going to do about this although I think that he would have gotten got anyway doesn't seem like there's a lot of boats off that island fair point what was so bizarre about it to me was like we are going to do this radical thing and sensibly in the service of protecting this child who is in this body.

45:57Andy Greenwald:And then the second she awakes, we will make sure to have someone next to her going, remember all that sick shit that happened last week? That was so crazy when the eye touched your eye. And you were like, I'm pregnant. You were pregnant. That just seems like poor personnel management. And that is a thing again and again, where it's like it is a plot point that every one of these hybrids is being monitored at all times, externally and internally. that the... Or that even their, that their literal, like, vision and hearing is, is like being reflected back to the, to the, yeah. Now, the first time we picked that knit, it was revealed that, well, Kersh is, is watching, and he's allowing this to happen.

46:38Andy Greenwald:Yes. okay, that's fine. But when, what's his name? Tweet, Tweet, Tweetles? Tweetbot? I think it's Tweetles. Something like that, but he changes his name. To, now it doesn't matter. but yeah. Rest in, rest in pieces. is my metal king.

46:57He is wildly off script

47:01Andy Greenwald:and then extremely offline for what seems to be more than enough time for someone in a multi-trillion dollar armored... I think Kirsch orchestrated that. So you think he turned off some cameras so that Sylvia isn't watching? I don't know, but I think Kirsch instructed him to do that with being... And he has been watching that sheep for a long time and being like, this guy can follow. Yes. He's tracking people. He is doing stuff. Something weird is going to happen here. And I think he also knew, obviously, that the other kid slightly was going to make a run. Because he clearly can hear everything he's saying.

47:42Yeah, yeah.

47:42Andy Greenwald:I'm with you on the Isaac was set up to die there. Because he's like, is Crowley there? And he's like, no. And he's like, good, go. But there are a lot of things, like there's just like a lot of domino falling coincidences and misfortune that has to happen to these people that can only happen in a completely empty building. And I think that the show's, maybe a better way to frame it is, the show's interest in the largest possible metaphors and arguments I find compelling and admirable and noteworthy. The problem with that for me in terms of how it's executed on screen is that when you have a cavalier with his feet up at the table and Yutani at the other end of the table and they have like a kind of a mid collision where they're tossing around billion dollar figures.

48:35Andy Greenwald:I don't have much of a dog in this fight. I don't feel any sense of humanity. I don't feel any, I'm not really compelled as to why anyone wants these murderous monsters other than the fact that they will be useful for the future alien movies. the metaphor which is being drummed into our head quite explicitly in the text about like what is humanity what is consent um who are the real monsters it feels a little bit it's not uninteresting it's not uncompelling it's not poorly executed it just feels untethered i think from a more human story especially because the things that i find jarring as a viewer interested in the human emotional stuff is the like the sense that no matter what we are going to get scenes where cavalier is reading peter pan to us and there's going to be something analogous happening or the fact that the characters are going to keep referring to each other as the boy genius and dame sylvia which feels very affected sure and very much like no no you will watch what i want you to watch here and not particularly organic yeah i mean i think honestly it's a place where without Babu Sisay and Timothy Olyphant I think I probably would be on the border of being like I can't watch this.

49:52Andy Greenwald:Yeah. Should we talk about that scene? But they are so good and their characters are so interesting that I almost feel like it gives me hope for like future seasons of the show. We should have started there. The scene with them in the elevator was maybe the best scene of the season so far. Yeah. Everything about that scene was wonderful also i mean i also love the elephant uh alex lother scene oh he's just like it's like onion and the star yeah i i love those actors it was a good scene but but the idea that is this my sister is it not will i play will i get to take her home like that feels established to me yeah the thing because that's all in the realm of the theoretical and in the past and also potentially in the future beyond the season the thing that feels extremely present is the tension between the full machine and the half machine who are on opposite sides maybe or maybe not or maybe not of some sort of like end stage capitalism world war that's super sick yeah the dialogue was sick where he says what does he say i'll see you soon old toy hell yeah that was awesome yeah and it's hard to go from from the highs of that to everything else But look, this is the nature of contemporary TV where you were referring to it.

51:09Andy Greenwald:And I think you're right too. Like, how much is table setting? We don't know. We don't know the health of the show. We don't know the long-term prospects of the show. We don't know where this is going. I do find myself yearning for more of what's going on right now. Speaking of things that are going on right now with the show, as the resident alienologist, I have to get your read on the Tinomorph, I want to call it. The sort of baby Groot. Oh, yeah. That Wendy likes sweet singing to. Clicking and chattering to. Just clicking. Look, no one in this room understands how quickly kids grow up more than I do.

51:50Andy Greenwald:It does seem... They grow real fast. It seems really fast. Is that canonical? We have now either moved way past my grasp of alien types. Yeah. and what they are capable of. And I didn't know they talked, you know, like I didn't know there was a fly. You didn't know they talked? Yeah. What'd you think they did? Fucking slammed their chompers into people's head pieces and then cocooned them and make babies out of them. Okay. Yeah. But what do they do when they get tired of that? I don't know. It seems like they're in eggs until dipshits find them, like all the time. Like it never occurred to me that these things were like, like I like.

52:30Andy Greenwald:You don't think they like to like stream Netflix at the end of a long day? brand Altman, like kind of really tough to find Altman movies. So it's, we're beyond my expertise here, you know? It's funny because, again, this is the, I find the show really fascinating also because of what it says about what we are making and what we are capable of making and what the limits of it on television, the ideas that, and look, the way, the way a lot of jobs go, like Noah as a very established Emmy award winning proven track record creator, he doesn't need to like pitch for things or be in a bake off, right?

53:04Andy Greenwald:He does what he wants to do. And he has a good relationship with FX that allows him to do it. But a lot of the way the industry works now is, you know, they have the studios or the streamers have a project or a property or an old movie or an IP or something, a book, and they hear takes. And it is very much about the power and the stickiness of the idea and the takes that you deliver in that emotion. And that initial meeting. And although the actual work is stitching together those takes and big ideas into something that flows and entertains and inspires or whatever, one, two, five years down the road, a lot of the initial enthusiasm and the green lights and all the money flowing comes from that very first burst of ideas.

53:45And we were not there for that.

53:48Andy Greenwald:We can't actually know what that was like in terms of Noah talking to the bosses at FX and the rights holders. But his ideas are really great. You know about this kind of artificial person, there's going to be a third kind of artificial person. You've heard of Weyland-Yutani, there are four other corporations, the Earth is run that way. You think there's one kind of alien, there's also the absolute sickest shit pulled from the nightmares you wish you'd never have, and I'm going to put that on screen. Each one is going to be delivered like a... You know what's creepy? The way lambs look at you.

54:21Let's get those guys on screen.

54:23Andy Greenwald:Weirdly, maybe this is just my TV brain collapsing, but there's a moment in the fourth episode of the paper where Esmeralda tells Ned that he has goat eyes. And he spends the rest of the episode with a non-eyeball alien, but like with a goat's face on his screen, comparing it to his own face. Like, I don't want to underrate the stickiness and effectiveness of those big touchstone beats that are in the series. Honestly, like, you know, I can complain about the quote unquote stupidity or like the lack of logic in certain decisions or even just like I just don't think even in the most move fast break things company, only one person would be watching the shit.

55:06you know but in the first alien film it's Ash in the second alien film it's Burke but these characters who are like A working with different instructions than everybody else and B you know essentially like like undoing the work that the other characters are doing to make sure that the aliens are kept and brought back for study and for exploitation what if you had a show full of those people like what if everybody was essentially you know off in some way or had their own agenda and it's just that's a really good idea there's not a ton i mean even i would go as far as say is that hermit is the least interesting character and he's probably the most

55:50Andy Greenwald:like the heroes of past alien movies yes it's again you can feel the pivot and the strength of the zag in the initial pitches about what the show is going to be you are used to you being the audience, certain archetypes being in these stories and in these films. I'm going to focus on children in robot bodies. Now, in practice, when it's already way too far down the road to undo it, it seems, at least as far as I think we're both concerned, that that's the weakest part of the show, which is frustrating, honestly. It's a passion project, clearly. I will say this. Noah Hawley has not traditionally shown a ton of interest in doing the same thing twice and I do wonder well whether or not as this show moves forward whether it takes any kind of time jump or what if certain characters go by the wayside don't know I haven't watched ahead I'm just saying like think about Fargo and think about yeah where he's like yeah there's connective tissue and there's maybe things from but I'm interested in something else yeah now I want to move on I respect that can I make one small like fantasy baseball type pitch for the show which is it doesn't work like this but i kind of wish that all of the boy cavalier boy genius scenes had been outsourced to jesse armstrong like i think there was a i wish there was a little more mountain head in my alien earth yeah um because the character is to my it's not working this many episodes in and it could just be a real estate problem because there are a lot of characters and there's a lot going on.

57:23Andy Greenwald:And so far what he does is just sort of giggle about how smart he is and let chaos unfold and think it's going to work out for him. I have not watched it. I feel fairly confident it's not going to work out for him in some pretty horrific ways. The alien timeline would suggest that's the case. Exactly. That said, I would like more to that character who is, you know, the driver of a lot of the story and that he's like created these children robot baby people who are also trillion dollar investments in interstellar travel. uh and is also like orchestrated the ship crashing and is being very fast and loose with the creations i would like more to it than i just want someone smart enough to have a conversation with me and i put my feet on the table i would i just there's i completely agree with you the feet is a thing that you could be like if they just had him always be barefoot but acting like sitting like a normal person you would be like that's an interesting thing that he never wears shoes i notice that and instead he's like by the way i don't wear shoes you know and it's like it's always like everyone in the room is like please yeah or wow that guy really what an iconoclast yeah it's look we it's fun to talk about the show and it's engaging to to to even even the it's got something to it critiquing it it just strikes me as an example of something that has remarkably good ideas and good.

58:48I can tell when I'm dragging you to, you know, we got to keep doing this. And I know that you're not doing that with this. So deep down, you're just a little lamb with a third eye.

59:00Andy Greenwald:It's a second eye. It's a second eye, but it's the third one he got. A lot of eye talk. Kirshen and Morrow are like, oh, no pain. Like even when your eye explodes, like that'll be more fun. Yeah. You know, once you're just, again, we can wrap up, but I, you, you, you, you wear a lot of hats literally on the podcast, but also here at Ringer, Spotify, HQ, you're more of an office guy, you know, than, than I am in the office. Yeah. So just generally, what do you think of the office vibe at the boy geniuses? At prodigy? Prodigy retreat. Like there are a lot of cameras. Yes. So not a lot of privacy.

59:40Andy Greenwald:That said, people do seem to be able to make their own hours. And you have access to everything, you know? Like, there's no sense that, like, like, I don't know if you could walk into Bill's studio next door as easily as all the characters walk into the secure lab. Yeah. I just think that, I think that there are things that they're doing on this show to, like, just facilitate plot happening rather than be, like, wouldn't there just be more security? I guess the idea is that they're all preparing for an attack by Yutani. From the outside. So that's why it's so empty in there. But pretty frequently I find that it's a room with just Arthur in it.

1:00:20Yeah. And so I wouldn't fire him. No, exactly.

1:00:23Andy Greenwald:It's like 50 % of the staff. And for personal, just to bring my own personal experience to it, I only got a badge today to get in here. Don't get too comfortable. I couldn't be less comfortable. This is year 13 and a half of the podcast, you know? So I'm just saying. We'll break there. We'll be back. Thank you to Kaya. Thank you to Kai. Thank you to John. Thank you to everybody. We are going to come back on Monday and do TASC and Emmys. It's going to be a good day for us. You are going to have to sit through a night of Napragazzi and be delighted. Is he hosting the Emmys? Yes. Sorry. I'm not following him on social media, so I didn't know that.

1:01:01Andy Greenwald:But I assumed you followed CBS Sunday Mornings, which has been running their little takeout piece on him. Want me to send it to you? Yes, please. Thanks to everybody. We'll talk to you guys on Monday.