Is ‘Sterling Point’ the Show of the Summer? Plus, ‘Tires’ Season 3.

20:54Andy Greenwald:Yeah, I think it was Elizabeth Bones. Bones, the Bone Zone is Bones and Rizzoli and Isles. I have seen 200 episodes of the last 10 minutes of those episodes because they would be on before basketball on TNT. Oh, what about Law & Order reruns now? Not as much on TNT as you would think. Yeah, that was more of a TBS or USA thing. It's a USA thing. But when you tune in for the first of a doubleheader on a Wednesday on TNT with Chuck and Kenny. You do the work. Rizzoli and Iles right there. All of this to say, this sounds pretty great and much more interesting, I think, to me than like a retread of the show that, to be frank, I never watch.

21:34Andy Greenwald:So I think it's kind of exciting and it's a fun idea and the cast is clearly into it. And I do think that there is potentially good precedent here. I mean, you never want something to be super navel gazing of just like celebrities hanging out and enjoying how funny they are together. But until Chris walks into the room. What if the premise was the cast of Sons of Anarchy at a convention and then you walk into the convention? I was like, you guys all meeting up? You guys here to see me? Yeah. I'll be signing you. That's not what I mean. I just mean that I try in my head to be like, that's just a normal person.

22:09That's a different way of saying it. I'm like, you're the diplomat. I'm just like, you know, you're just chilling. You're shopping.

22:15Andy Greenwald:You saw Emily to Chanel and you're like, holy shit, that's bones. Forget it. She's just like, she's just made of bones like the rest of us. I think the idea of a show like this is an interesting and potentially promising precedent instead of just doing a reunion of the show. Yeah. Like, did we need that last season of Frasier that they tried to reboot? Honestly, from what I know about Sons of Anarchy, from reading interviews with cast members and stuff like that, I do know that the bonds made on that show were quite deep and quite passionate. And there was a lot of testosterone on that set. I think if you can play with that, if you can discuss that, it'll be worthwhile.

23:04More than even Galaxy Quest, It is interesting to see FX dig in the crates a little bit. Oh, of their own IP. Network that, you know, has been, they've kind of fallen under the Disney umbrella broadly, but more than that, like, you know, their work is available on Hulu and Disney Plus, and they have a linear, at least a cable presence, but not a one that I think people think of them for.

23:34Andy Greenwald:Anymore, yeah. And I was just interested to see that, like, I wonder if this thing would make people, the folks who worked on The Shield or the folks, you know, they've done some justified stuff, but is there other stuff to do here? Well, what are also, though, the cast's ensembles that have, like, the highest Q rating and approval rating? And your friends, who's nothing to you, Kerry Russell and Matthew Rhys, for example, like, I feel like the interview that they did for the Variety cover story probably had more views than Widow's Bay did on Apple TV. You know what I mean? Like, I think people love them together.

24:12Andy Greenwald:They're delightful. so a show with them doing something as themselves would probably be more entertaining and honestly creatively fruitful than the Americans but this time in Russia 20 years later like I don't hold on now let me just type that down you know what I mean but there are other like there are other casts where they just famously have an interesting rapport that it might be worth seeing them try to bounce off of who they were whether it's like Parks and Rec because you know Kaya's overseen some of these mini reunions on Good Hang and these guys love each other and they have an interesting history and some of them are in different places now with their lives and careers.

24:49Andy Greenwald:Mad Men, like Ham and Slattery, I know were just in that movie that I didn't see. Gale Dockery, yeah. Did you see it? No. But like, they're fun. But I think the ultimate example, correct me if I'm wrong here, I think the ultimate example of a show that would benefit from getting Galaxy Quested would be The Good Wife. Okay, why? Now, I want to be clear, I never watched it. I thought Christine Baranski was great in it. Sure. You never watched an episode of The Good Wife? No, we're being honest here, just between the two of us. You never watched Galaxy Quest. I never watched The Good Wife. Did you ever watch The Good Fight?

25:21Andy Greenwald:No, because I felt like I wouldn't get the jokes, you know. But isn't that the show where Julianna Margulies and Archie Punjabi allegedly fell out so intensely that they never appeared on screen together again? So I'm suggesting a Galaxy Quest type reboot where the actors have to investigate what happened. I've been dying to ask you about this for like 12 hours. Oh, okay. That was a huge controversy when it happened. Yeah. Everybody was like, wait a second. Not only like that, were they not sharing screen time for maybe multiple seasons before that last, that episode? I don't remember. They were always on the phone.

25:59They were like, these are two people who would, every other character finds a reason to like go meet this other character for coffee. Right. But the Julianna Margulies and Archie Punjabi character would only talk on the phone when they were talking uh since then one thing that drives me crazy when watching tv is when i feel like it looks as if the distance the two characters are not in the same setting like they have shot their coverage like on different there's no establishing shot no two shot and this was my big thing with um the morning show which is what you know watch the morning show you know I understand the De Niro Pacino heat, like you only want Aniston and Reese facing off ever so often, but they have a lot to do with each other.

26:45And I did feel like there were some scenes where I was like, who is Marion Cotillard talking to? Like, it's like a shot of her talking and then it would be like, the person's reaction felt almost incongruous to what was being talked about. And there would be a lot, like a complete absence of master shots where you would be like, oh, these two people are in the room together. I was watching, I was fucking on Instagram yesterday. And like some SAG panel was coming up or something. And Paul Downs was talking about how...

27:14Andy Greenwald:Paul Downs, the co-creator and co-star of Hacks. Was talking about how that is like now a production tool, which is to digitally, like basically take... Hannah Einbinder's take of this take of one of her coverage. I know, I understand like, it's like, yes, you can do like different... That's how you cut shows. Yeah. But like basically digitally replacing or digitally manipulating the way those scenes are shot. Yeah. Even taking the actual, I don't know if I'm explaining it right. Do you know what I'm talking about? Kaya, can we do this for podcasts? Like not be in the same room? Just asking for the future.

27:54Andy Greenwald:Well, to be like, yes, they mix and match. Yeah, I understand editing. But I mean, like, I think he was referring to a more significant. It's possible. I mean, it's certainly technically possible. And I think the level of, I think the discourse around all movies and all television shows must be purely analog or we have outsourced ourselves to the demon known as Claude. Like, I think there is a middle ground, some of which is also worrying. But I think that that middle ground has, that's where we already exist in terms of what's possible and what you can mix and match and what you can slightly tweak.

28:30Andy Greenwald:I mean, you can manufacture. I think I read a story about this too I mean you can manufacture facial expressions on actors which SAG is quite concerned about oh I was talking to an indie filmmaker the other week and I was like I was like well they were talking to me about like their post-production schedule that they were doing but they were also working on another film and they were like oh the VFX of this movie were you know I had to basically approve but I couldn't be there for it I was like VFX and they were like yeah VFX everything is VFX and it wasn't a movie where you'd be like obviously they've used a bunch of VFX in this.

29:02Andy Greenwald:Yeah, I think that's further along than anyone realizes. But in terms of something like The Morning Show, again, based on no actual knowledge of it, my assumption with a show like that has always been the production challenges of juggling not just a massive cast, but an incredibly top-heavy cast of pretty big actors used to doing their own things demands a, let's say, creative blocking structure where actors might not be available at the same time. Right. I mean, and I mean, I think that the as production, as TV production. In my day, no, historically, a TV production would be you are blocked out for the four months that the show is shooting its season and you are available and you might work Thursday and you might work Tuesday.

29:45Andy Greenwald:You might not work again until July, but you can't cut your hair and you can't shave or whatever. You have to have continuity. And now it's a lot more like we've got this person. We're going to shoot them out in nine days. Right. It's more that we have to because yes, because or we lose them. And also just the nature of television production is like, like a show that I've been working on, you know, shoots for months and months and months longer than many movies do. Right. And then the gymnastics of just getting people who are available onto the show is just outrageous. Yeah. And I think you can sometimes see the seams in good ways and bad on different shows where you're like, it feels like they had to shoot this person out and they had like to make that work.

30:23they were like we're going to shoot a lot of your stuff on this set and then a lot of your stuff on this set and you're all good

30:29Andy Greenwald:I actually I will say not to brag but I did have to have the uncomfortable conversation with someone an actor once that he couldn't shave his mustache for another role. Is it me? Yes. It was a continuity week to week Would you want a Galaxy Quest any show? Did anything come to mind? We can circle back No I mean I'm kind of a romantic I don't really like the, I don't really like, it's not like I want to know, like, I don't want Lost to be shattered with like a convention with the cast of Lost, you know what I mean? Or, you know, find out that the cast of Deadwood are all really like normal guys, you know?

31:13Andy Greenwald:Just chill bros talking about NA beers. I want to have the suspension of disbelief where I'm like, no, it's Al Swearingen. It is the, I mean, I don't know how many Deadwood conventions there are because I haven't heard of you going to any. So I'm assuming there are none. But that lifestyle is interesting. I think there are conventions where like Titus Welliver will go and be like, I signed autographs. And some people ask for like Bosch. Bosch and some people ask for. Bosch legacy. And some people ask for Deadwood. And the two parts I played on Deadwood. But he's like mostly Bosch. Yeah. I saw that Sherilyn Fenn was beefing with the organizers of a David Lynch slash Twin Peaks convention about not showing up, but basically being like, I didn't want to appear there because some of the actors barely knew David and didn't work with him.

31:56Andy Greenwald:And now they're all like sketching on his legacy. Didn't name names. She was appearing at a Twin Peaks season two screening that was happening in Portland when I was there. Did you big time her? No. I bet she's wondering who I am and who I played on Twin Peaks season two. Yes. It's me, the log lady. The perfect lunch combo. That first bite of your favorite sub followed by ice cold Pepsi. Add a couple of friends and now that's next level. Suddenly the laughs get louder, the stories keep flowing, and the food tastes better. Because Pepsi brings out more flavor, more fun, and more of the moment. Food deserves Pepsi.

32:37Grab a Pepsi Zero Sugar today. This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at chatgpt.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro plans. A couple other things. I just wanted to mention that Sterling Point, probably unremarked upon other than our first initial comments on the show, has kind of become the show of the summer in some districts.

33:23Andy Greenwald:Yeah. In Kai's district, in my house's district, where I have, I would say Sons of Anarchy style, passively participated in the show. Okay, meaning it's been airing. I know what happens. In the waiting room of your home. I can tell when there's a sex scene. There's very specific music that these YA shows use during sex scenes that I can only describe as Hollister safe trap music or something. You know what I mean? Sure. So I can always hear like, oh, it seems like all the dialogue has dropped out except for the weekend. And then you come running with your binoculars. Is there a kick in the door?

34:05Andy Greenwald:Kool-Aid man in the room? Yeah. Is the reverse also true? Meaning when Phoebe is in the other room and she hears system of a down, she knows that the lionesses are in the tub together again? They don't do that. That's not, first of all, that's disrespectful. They'll play SOAD. Okay. Sorry. Second of all. Yeah. Those are two women who've given a lot to this nation, you know? And frankly, they're a little dirty. Right? So they're considering more than just their own needs. And right when they're about to consummate their relationship to get called back to duty. No. Yeah. Who called them? The president.

34:41Andy Greenwald:The president was like, ladies, pick up the soap. Your country needs you. Sterling Point has been renewed. You want out of that. You just fucking. I'm waiting for Van. I don't want to use all my good material on you. Okay, fair, fair. Can we edit Van into this? yeah let's talk sterling point for a second Megan Parks YA series set in a lake in you know very scenic Canada an intoxicating summer show I will say and this is now a couple of summers in a row I mean like obviously summer I turn pretty I'm wearing my cousin's beach t-shirt today I thought you were hiding it well I wore it because I wanted to make this point which is like we're now in like fully like amazon puts a a summer like teen post high school high school show on and it seems to run shit yes my the the expression on my 13 year old's face when i told her that the outer banks s5 screeners had dropped in our netflix queue was memorable does she know about that uh outer banks prequel that's coming that will thank you for asking this go to the origins of the social divides of this town it's gonna actually finally explain class and how it functions in america uh i texted her that information yesterday when she was at a friend's house stony silence stony not even dots and that's modern parenthood yeah you know i guess i have to she'll have to learn about class the old-fashioned way from scott besson from scott I don't really have a ton to say.

36:22I found the... Kaya, please feel free to jump on mic here.

36:25Andy Greenwald:Because Kaya, what was your... The whole season dropped, right? On Amazon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Kaya, where are you? And how quickly did you... I think I'm like four, four, five episodes in. They're like 45 minutes. And out of eight episodes, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think I'm like the halfway mark. There's a lot of confusing storylines about parentage in this show. Like there's a little bit of like... you could sometimes tell when these series start or series start and they're like, let's throw five plots out here and let's see what three we want to continue in the second season. But there's like an inheritance.

37:02There's a bunch of confusing, like, is this my half sister or like actually my sister or what?

37:07Andy Greenwald:Because the main character played by Ella Rubin, is that right? Something like that? Yeah, I think so. No way of us finding out on air. I'm trying to be less, I'm trying to be more present. I appreciate that. She is a... Annie. She's from... She's going into her senior year of high school. She has a twin brother. They are adopted. Yeah. And motherless. Yes. Their mother passed away. Their adopted mother, or so they think. And they are living a life of antiseptic luxury in a white box in New York. This was my biggest bump on the show that no one had ever set foot in until they showed up with set deck and a bowl full of pears.

37:43This really wasn't the problem for me. This was a huge problem for me. Just a physical and you burn it. My biggest problem is when you're like,

37:50Andy Greenwald:teenagers live in this house. Would you like a pair? Just come on. Just scuff up the floors a little bit. And then she finds out maybe there's a mystery of her lineage and her grandfather has left her an island and she flies 45 minutes to Toronto. That's the first episode. Then a lifetime of adventure. Yeah, and she meets a lot of characters out there. But your point, she doesn't know who's related to her? That's the question? Like who her... No, she's inherited this island, but when she goes around asking people about her grandfather, there's a lot of like, oh, well, I knew him. There's a lot of like, he seems to have, and there's just a lot of stuff about her mom.

38:27And look, it's also a love triangle. And there's Rory and what's the other guy's name? The hot guy or flies? Ellis.

38:36Andy Greenwald:Rory and Ellis. Do you know what it sounds like the show needs to sort of sort things out? Mr. Sinister. Because his whole thing is genetics and who's related to who. So do you know what I mean? Like Nathaniel Milbury from neighboring Ontario has arrived. Trying to build the perfect yuppie. Yes. Hmm. Plenty of pairs. But from what I watched, I found it very entertaining. Yeah, I had a different experience with it, which is I was like, I'm excited to watch this with my 13-year-old because she likes these Amazon shows. We basically made it mostly to the end of the first episode. It didn't click with her yet.

39:12Andy Greenwald:my guess is that she will then discover, like it's maybe, it will be more of a solo journey later. Okay. But the really positive thing about it was we immediately launched into the OC. Now I don't know if you, like, so this is Megan Park's show. She made the film My Old Ass a year or two ago. And I thought, and she's got another feature coming. And I thought a bunch of the behind the scenes stuff I saw from Sterling Point, I really dig how she works, which I wonder is not dissimilar from the way Josh Schwartz worked, which is who you're going to mention in a second. where she seems to very much like bring the actors playing these younger people into the process so that the dialogue sounds realistic, that the blocking feels real, that the, everybody, I think they're trying to make it feel as sort of like organic as possible.

39:58Andy Greenwald:So this show was shepherded by, executive produced by Josh and his longtime producing partner, Stephanie Savage. They've both been on the pod a bunch. And it was really fun to use engaging briefly with that show, maybe to return to launch into the OC, which my daughter had never seen. And I had not checked out in 20 years and it really holds up. It was really fun. Now, how long does the OC hold water for, like seasons wise? Canonically or in a rewatch? Canonically. I think canonically it began to, I mean, they made something like 26 episodes their first year. It's outrageous. It's, you know, that is approaching three plus seasons of Sterling Point in a very brief period of time.

40:41Andy Greenwald:that they made those episodes. As someone who was, I mean, I first met Josh writing about the second season of that show for GQ and it was in a bit of a lull, I would say creatively. And then from what I remember, it rebounded closer to the end when future Terminalist star Chris Pratt joined in his first role. Right. And Summer went to Brown, you know, so then I could finally like kind of really feel seen on the show. So it's important to you. It's important to me. Representation matters, Chris. I mean, at that time, you remember, putting brown people on a Fox show was rare. So it was good. Did you...

41:21Andy Greenwald:No, so I think canonically, but again, it's really interesting watching this. This is something we always fall back on, but I remain intrigued by it, that young people watch everything, no matter what era it's from, as if it was Summer I Turned Pretty. So, for example, the other day, she's like, oh, my friends are really into modern family. I guess I better start at episode one. Yeah. like it is a and I was like you don't have to have to season one's quite good season one is great she was laughing it up but my point being the consumption you don't have to watch this thing as if it's like you know I missed an episode of True Detective now I don't understand the mystery that said in the OC when Carcosa emerged from a hill mouth in Newport Beach was a really weird dip no but I also think that time can be kinder to the growing pains of a very intense production period in the sense that if you like the OC, you're going to like all 56 episodes one way or another, maybe more, maybe some more, maybe some less, but you are not waiting for it.

42:20Andy Greenwald:And you don't have that same expectation. Disappointment rollercoaster is what I'm perceiving as she's plowing. I think it would be a fun project for us. One of these days to pick not at random, but a season of TV or a show that we liked that we used to like, what is the experience of watching 22 episodes of this? Like to just look at like how the storytelling structures have changed, how the mechanics change, how does the show feel now? But just like more from a nuts and bolts perspective rather than like, oh, does Miami Vice season two hold up? The degree to which, I mean, plot was everything.

42:59Andy Greenwald:Plot was like spice on Arrakis, basically in the classic TV days. we watched the first I think two or three episodes together and then then by the time by the time we were sitting back down on the couch she was on episode like 15 and is she watching them at faster speeds? no but she's watching them like when the TV goes off I think then it goes on the phone and then she's just still grinding them but not even 15 by like episode 8 or 9 it's like Luke who I last saw punching Ryan you know with his puka shell necklace as being like, welcome to the OC, bitch, is now sleeping with Marissa's mother, dealing with the fallout of his father being gay and like friends with Ryan.

43:42Andy Greenwald:And then Jimmy is now opening a restaurant with Sandy and also sleeping with Caitlin's sister, who they discover as a stripper at an LA party that they're invited to when Colin Hanks, playing a lightly metafictional version of Seth Cohen, invites them to. Dude, it's just November. Do you know what I mean? Like that's how fast they had to service this beast. Let's talk about another show that I think has legs to be long running. It's already in its third season. It's on Netflix, and it's tires. Okay. It is Shane Gillis and John McKeever's sitcom set at a tire shop in Valley Forge, Pennsylvania.

44:20Andy Greenwald:A place. A place you and I have been on many field trips. Yeah, field trips. I don't know that I've ever spent a lot of time in Valley Forge, but it's very recognizable to me. this is a show that uh i think had like a fine first season an excellent second season and a very very so far so good like on same level third season um here's what i like about it okay there is no reason for shanguilis to make this show it's not 1995 anymore stand-up comedians don't need sitcoms to be their platforms shane gillis can sell out the link uh so he's good i think he's got more money than he probably knows what to do with and there's no reason for him to do this show and there's no reason for this show to be this good or to look this good or to feel this like lived in and it's just fucking i mean aside from the fact that it's so fucking funny i love the usual what the what what they're doing with this is the same thing that they do with great sitcoms which is like the first season is usually very star and 1a star dependent and then as it goes on like you start getting more and more character beats for like the tertiary the secondary characters and at least in the first few episodes of this season my mvp is is stavi yeah he's amazing um who plays a not rival but like another tire shop manager in the in the valley forge tire shop family who's in recovery for sex addiction and also trying to bring down Will and Shane their shop.

46:01Andy Greenwald:Now, I don't want to begin our conversation by talking about factionalism, but is that okay for you to come out as pro-stavvy being very firmly in the Adam Friedland camp in the Comptown divorce? I think it's all love. Yeah. You sure? Yes. I think it was a conscious uncoupling, not a... There's nothing to read into this because I know you're deep in those streets. With Adam or in the streets of Cumetown? Just the Cumetown diaspora. The basin, if you will. That's kind of where you've set up shop. Adam might be a guest on this show pretty soon. Is that a threat? I'm just telling you. Adam and I want to talk about the Jose Mourinho documentary and the Pep Guardiola documentary.

46:41And I think this might be the platform for it.

46:43Andy Greenwald:I think that might be. Yeah, that's fine. What did you think of Tire Season 3? well I did you watch season two at all no we watched season one and I didn't it was like six episodes it was dropped and I thought it was fine and I didn't feel particularly motivated to go into it also back then you know I was really really a resistance lib and I thought it was really important to signal that this show wasn't for me yes it's been a vibe shift as we said at the top yeah and now I'm you had a lot of Amy McGrath stock that didn't pan out I'm you were upside down dude Amy McGrath Who's your favorite lost cause that you gave money to?

47:18I don't know, but a friend who shall remain nameless. Yeah, I know who he is. Put some money into a billboard in Utah trying to bring down, I believe, Jason Chaffetz.

47:28Andy Greenwald:Sure. I'm still trying to figure out what went wrong with Sarah Gideon. Okay, that's my true detective season five. She's going against Murkowski? No, she was the one who ran against Susan Collins and like all the polls. Like, Act Blue was like, we will make a difference. And I was like, well, it's New England. I'm sure they're reasonable. and Susan Collins won by like 16. Somehow Susan Collins has returned. So no, jokes aside about that, what I was, so I didn't engage with season two. I watched season three, or beginning of it, I watched the first few episodes and instantly like there are just some things that are very clear and it's what you said, which is that if there is any orthodoxy or ideology of this show, it's of a classic workplace hang sitcom.

48:09Andy Greenwald:Yeah. And in a very strange way, the comp that I was feeling after watching the first few was really more like more to industry, which is this show has nothing in common with industry, although they do talk about dicks a lot in both. It was really more that one of the pleasures of watching industry was watching people who were incredibly talented, who had a very strong point of view, figure out the capabilities of the vehicle they were driving. And watching the beginning of season three and seeing them discover in real time how much mileage you can get out of putting some of these characters in upside-down, unexpected situations, how much you can get just from a certain cutaway and a look at a certain time.

48:52Andy Greenwald:Just what you can generate from mining these little runners of possibility within characters that they now feel very comfortable playing was really, really pleasurable. And then I got to the end of the first episode. The episode ends. And I would say if you are on the fence about the show, you could probably advise people on the right episode to start with, It might be season two. I would just go, I mean, I'd say season two is a marked improvement on season one, which felt like almost an extended pilot. Yes. Of them being like, look, we can make this. Exactly. And I thought that the season premiere of season three was lower on jokes.

49:28Andy Greenwald:So if you're watching it to be like, I want to see a fun You thought it was lower on jokes? Than two and three of season three. Until the episode ends. It says like, you know, McKeever or whatever. It says at the end directed by it. And then it cuts to a bit from 2021 in which a man working at the Valley Forge tires is like, I think I'm going to take off next week and go see my president give a speech. And Gillis is like, you should definitely do that. You should go. And then the other guy's like, don't go into the Capitol. And Shane's like, it's your building, man. It's your house. It's your house.

50:03Andy Greenwald:You should go. It's the people's house. And he's like, you know what? You should bring a gun. and the guy's like yeah it's my second amendment right yeah i'm gonna go and he's like you might need to stay longer than a day then he was like you can have the sixth off and you might need a few weeks after that it's really funny so so i stavi stavi's yeah run in the first episode where he he plays dave and he's in a yeah that's a sex addict anonymous not so anonymous class session and it's just really good man it's just really good work you know he's in he's we haven't talked about it but he's also in Tony he's amazing in Tony yeah he's a great I'm very pro savvy I think he's great in everything he is he's in but like the thing that I was really appreciating in these few episodes was that Shane Gillis is the reason I was I really wanted to re-engage was because the thing that has become my comfort binky in low moments is his couple of beers commercial from SNL last year, a year and a half ago, which I think is so funny, but also he's incredible in it.

51:09Andy Greenwald:Like, I think he's a really good and funny performer. So I was eager to see this. And what I appreciated from these first three episodes was there is a self-awareness and kind of a sly winking about what people think of him and what he's actually doing that's woven in these episodes in a way that I kind of, that I really appreciated. Your point about he doesn't need to do this, he definitely doesn't need to, but it does seem like a really really successful way for him to communicate a fuller picture yes than if he's doing one joke in a stand-up bit that gets aggregated or if he's he or if he just like any good citizen attends like a sporting contest on the white house lawn like who among us wouldn't do that i just get the impression that the the plus for him in this is that it used to be your stand-up you start to develop an audience yeah somebody from the network comes and says what if we made a show called Shane?

51:58And it was about a guy who's, you know, like a substitute teacher, but is also like trying to get his life together in Philly or whatever. And it's like shot on a soundstage in Studio City. And instead of getting noted to death and all this stuff and all this process, it seems like more and more guys like Gillis can go ahead and be like, I'm making this show. For sure. We're like outfitting a garage. We're going to shoot all this like on location.

52:25Andy Greenwald:He could have done this on YouTube. And then I will sell it to you for an exorbitant price. Yes. And my guy is directing all of it. We are writing it together. Steve Gerben, who probably would not be the lead of a sitcom. Correct. Ordinarily, but is an extraordinary performer and character within the context of Tires. They made all those creative decisions and bet on themselves and it paid off. And I admire that. I think the vibe is more, it's always sunny. Not just because it's Philadelphia adjacent, but it's like, these guys were going to do this anyway. But seriously though, like the thing, Steve Gerben as Will, like the third episode in the third season when they go to a women in business thing and he's the happiest he's ever been with the more traditionally, like the women and the wives and he's wearing, he gets, they dress him up.

53:15Andy Greenwald:Yeah. And he's very happy. And I genuinely feel this as a fan of comedies and why we like to watch these characters. The fact that he was really happy was a sign that the show knows what it's doing on a deeper level. It was not just pointing and laughing at him, although Shane shows up and points and laughs at him. Did you like the B plot of that episode where Shane and Cal are trying to revisit their old haunts and it turns out to be a family fun center? Yes. And they're like, can we get beers? I felt like there was a real Pattinson primetime kind of overlap possibility there in that scene. So you know I'm there for that.

53:46But he was like, this is the best, man. We're just two guys going to rip some cigs and drink some beers and no wife to tell us what to do. And they're like, yeah, but it would be cool to have someone who loved you. What about when they go?

53:57Andy Greenwald:But then when they're in the bathroom and they're at the urinals, and Shane talks about how he feels like he's shrinking as he grows older. And when he was a kid, he thought he was Simba and going to grow up to run the jungle. And then a small child emerges from the stall. It's fucking, it's funny. It's funny, man. It's funny, but it also is, like, rhythmically, like, they just know what they're doing. And I really, it's smarter than I was going to give it credit for. Nobody gives a shit, but it's a gauntlet, I think, thrown to other comedians who are like, I'll do a sitcom. You know what I mean?

54:27Make something cool like this. Make something kind of...

54:30Andy Greenwald:With your pals? Yeah, make something with your pals. Try and make it look interesting and make it feel lived in and we'll be watching. But do you know what I mean, though? I don't mean that there's anything calculated about this in terms of he's not trying to sane-wash himself. I think the vibe from the show is a pure... I imagine. I don't think he cares at all about that. That's what I'm saying. I think it is a pure expression of he's like, I want to make something with my friends. It is fundamentally insane that people put microphones in my face and ask me about things that I only think about when they ask me about them.

55:04Andy Greenwald:And I'm going to run at that a little bit in a kind of a teasing and winking way and disarm you with what we actually end up doing. Right. I think that there, because he's not, it's not a successful or believable brand to be like, I don't know, I'm just a guy. But I mean, that's, although honestly, you've been fucking crushing it. kudos but it's not for everyone but I think that he I think that it is cannier than people give him credit for and I really enjoyed it I don't need to have an opinion on everything do I? no wait you mean politically or tires? yeah like when people are just like I fucking hate when restaurants do this I'm like yeah I've never thought about that first of all I have text receipts that you do care about what restaurants do okay restaurants is a bad example yeah I guess I do have a lot of opinions you have so many opinions but I I agree with you that I think that as the stunning fall of Alexander Vindman proves, we may be turning the page on an era when everyone has to be the fucking avatar.

56:00Andy Greenwald:I didn't say that. You said that. What? About the resistance. Is that what you're talking about? That's always been your thing. No, that's your bit. No, no, no. You're the one who brought Alexander Vindman up. I mean, yeah, but you're the one who propped up his campaign. Well, I had to look for an interesting place to put my money. You know what you care about? Electability. Let's wrap it up there. You sure? I think it's been a cool pod. and we have some other stuff to take care of for Monday's show. So thank you to Kai, Kaya, and Sarah. And we'll be back on Monday with a full boat of lanterns, lionesses, and furioses.