Patrick J. Adams on the Making of ‘The Madison.’ Plus, ‘The Pitt’ S2E12 and a TV News Roundup.

18:56episodes.

18:56Andy Greenwald:And you see what Vince Gilligan was capable of. Yeah, and then it's just like, oh, damn. You know, like, and everybody, like, practically everyone who worked on that show is, like, of note, you know? I think it's very cool. I think we should also 100 % go, when this show comes out, we should do a podcast where you're like, the only true text was Millennium, and I could come back with, actually, the Lone Gunman spinoff. I don't think either of those shows are available to watch. We should just talk about them. Okay. I think that would drive interest. But I think it's exciting, and I I'm curious to see the path that, considering two of this year's Best Director nominees were both involved in the very delicate and purposeful rebooting of beloved 90s, early 2000s television shows, we know what happened with Chloe Zhao's Buffy, and so I'm curious to see what happens with Kugler's X-Files.

19:43This episode is brought to you by Volkswagen. It can be hard to do your own thing when everyone else is following everyone else, but that's what some of the best films are about, an outcast striving to make their own way in the world. And this is your sign to be that outcast. From us, from VW, from the other outcasts out there, take a chance. Make the most of every day and don't be afraid to veer off course every now and then. Because if you don't do it now, then when? Learn more at VW.com. This episode is brought to you by The Home Depot. Spring is starting, so it's time to wake up your yard.

20:19And at The Home Depot, they've got everything you need to do it with low prices guaranteed. Mowing your lawn is a dream with top brand outdoor power tools like the Ryobi 40 volt mower with up to 50 minutes of runtime. You can add a pop of color with spring blooms and fresh plants and refresh your garden beds with earth grow mulch, five bags for just$10. Start your spring with low prices now through April 1st. Available at the Home Depot. Exclusions apply. See homedepot.com slash price match for details. This episode is brought to you by Marvel Television's Daredevil Born Again Season 2, now streaming on Disney+.

21:00Charlie Cox and Vincent D 'Onofrio are back, and Kristen Ritter makes her highly anticipated return as Jessica Jones in an all-new season. As Mare Fisk tightens his grip on New York City, he makes Daredevil as his top target. Matt Murdock fights from the shadows, hoping to bring down Fisk's corrupt empire and reclaim his city. Don't miss Daredevil Born Again Season 2, now streaming only on Disney+. This episode is brought to you by the Active Cash Credit Card from Wells Fargo. That's a mouthful, but that's because it packs a lot in. Earn unlimited 2 % cash rewards on purchases with it, big or small.

21:38So whether it's buying tickets to the game and grabbing a coffee, it earns unlimited 2 % cash rewards on purchases. Say it with me. The Active Cash Credit Card from Wells Fargo. Be a 2 %-er. Learn more at wellsfargo.com forward slash active cash. Terms apply. Yeah. Why don't we talk about a beloved show that's on right now? Spoilers for this evening's episode of The Pit, which is 6 p.m.?

22:03Andy Greenwald:I believe it's 6 p.m. 6 p.m. And I think the tenor of the episode is set early on when someone says, smoke them if you got them. This place is going tits up. Yeah, Santos says that. Yeah. this was another banger even with the very like stilted turns to camera and says well you know emphysema is a rising cause of death in the senior citizen community moments it's really coming together man and I I am really impressed with what they are doing with Robbie because for as much as obviously there is a kind of parasocial relationship with TV characters that is a pretty common phenomenon these days and people being like, Robbie is being inappropriate in this workplace, which I suppose he is, but it's also compelling television and it's fiction.

22:52So you can stand at arm's length and watch it. I didn't really get it maybe in the first few episodes or not get it, but I was like, well, this is interesting. What are they going to do and how are they going to land this with him? And I think when I say I didn't get it, I was like, well, he's come in. everybody is immediately keyed into this helmet thing and this motorcycle trip but what you don't really see or what doesn't really become apparently for a few episodes is the lack of his loss of his warm touch that this ability to take somebody aside and make them feel okay or make them feel better or share or be vulnerable or talk about like here we stay you know we we do a moment of silence and we do a debrief and all these things.

23:39Andy Greenwald:And this is a teaching hospital. All the stuff that was like, obviously like principles of the hospital that he had internalized and made part of his like character, essentially. He lost, he's lost it. You know, he is a guy steamrolling through his last work day and is making everybody around him pretty miserable, including people that he's trying to help like Duke, who he's brought in and insists on him getting a scan so that Robbie can leave because now there's obviously a ton of speculation about to what extent Robbie is leaving and what plane of existence he is leaving. And several characters, or at least Dana pretty specifically, is like you are giving off like Last Will and Testament vibes pretty much.

24:24Andy Greenwald:It was nice to see that some of the characters on season two of The Pit seem to be watching season two of The Pit. But that's a very succinct way of the long way of what I just said. Santos says something. Dana goes right at him. I really like Santos's, I feel like I mistyped it, but something about like a grand ego death and RoboDoc over there shooting her in the proverbial dick. I'm like, yeah, that's a pretty, she should be a podcaster. That's pretty good. During the first eight or nine weeks of the show, it seemed like you and many people, myself included, were waiting for the other shoe to drop in terms of the big event that was going to roil the ED.

25:03Andy Greenwald:And that part of that may have been just what the show had taught us to expect, that if they were going to choose a day, they were going to choose an exceptional day, probably due to something beyond, you know, beyond any expectation of what an emergency department can expect to handle. So it's a mass shooting in the first season, and this season sets us up to believe there's going to be something because people are, it's incredibly hot, People are gathering for the festivities, for the holiday. We have seen some fireworks-related incidents. There's the looming cyber attack that actually, this episode reminds us, never came.

25:36Andy Greenwald:They just shut themselves down to avoid it. In the last two weeks, the storyline that has emerged as the central story of this season is Robbie's internal combustion. Combustion. Yeah. and I'm wondering how you feel about, it seems like you're feeling positively about it, but the way that the show, I don't know if it rope-a-doped us or just lulled us into expecting one thing and then suddenly receiving another, but do you feel like your engagement with the show is at the same level that it was last year and how has this resolved your feelings about the first part of the season? Great question.

26:14Thank you. I think that there's a way in which this, what they're doing on the second season is a great leap forward and a great example of how this show is going to be able to iterate and move forward and do five, six, seven, ten seasons, however many they want to do. That being said, the Robbie bullet is in some ways the same kind of caliber of bullet of a mass casualty event. Like, I don't know how many times going forward on the series they're going to be able to do winding Robbie up and having him come apart over the course of a day. so it's an interesting gambit that they're doing this early in what I think we would all assume is at least going to be a four season run right like

26:55Andy Greenwald:I mean I think the nature of the show I know I turned to camera last week and I was like Robbie is not leaving the pit or not dying on the pit in a perfect world this the pit isn't just like a a reboot of a broadcast network style show yeah they want this to run for 10 years so I would imagine in success this show will outlive, not literally, but many of its characters. Well, even, you know, and that was one of the cool things I thought about this episode was as the night shift started coming on and you see Mateo and you see Homeboy with the Coffee who's just the greatest triage nurse of all time.

27:34Andy Greenwald:He's a doctor. Yeah. You're like, oh yeah. And then when Mateo says to Javadi, like, you should join the night shift. It's like... The dark side. Yeah, the dark side. It's sitting right there for them to do that. Now, I don't know if they could maintain the same level of quality that whether you'd want to make season three, the night shift or whether you'd want to spin it off and do shift pit, the pit night shift. I don't, this seems like a very carefully written, important show to the people who are writing it. I don't know if they're ready to franchise it yet. Yeah. But there's so many different directions as it can go.

28:05And it's what I'm saying.

28:06Andy Greenwald:It's Dr. Shen, by the way. Dr. Shen. I feel good about it you know I was glad actually when I think Alashimi says the other two hospitals have paid the ransom and we're going to have like our defenses up soon did you like that she knew that with her own internal wifi she was like hold on I have a signal I've come to like her as well you know I'm a pretty I'm a pretty easy date when it comes to this show well she is doing the part, she has taken on part of Robbie's job and responsibilities and personality and that she is quite calm and seems to be very comfortable conducting and teaching, like a professorial vibe and role.

28:54Andy Greenwald:And that seems to be working with a lot of the younger doctors and residents. Yeah, I think if you think about the potentials, it's an HBO Max show, but it's an HBO show in many ways. And an HBO show is nothing if it doesn't have a morally complicated and conflicted male lead. And one of the challenges to probing and exploring Robbie as a main character, not just as the engine that makes the entire show go, is that as a doctor, he is essentially flawless. Through, I don't know how many episodes it's been, 15 plus nine, so 24 episodes, he is, I don't think he's ever made a mistake or a misdiagnosis.

29:36Andy Greenwald:He hasn't. Other than the slash trach, there's nothing he hasn't seen before. So if you accept that, and I think there might be hopefully room to poke at that in future seasons, what you needed to do in this season was to give him the runway to experience what a crash out would be without the temporary high of a crisis. The first season was about him walking in on a day that was going to be very traumatic for him and memories of COVID and of his mentor. And then in a, I was about to say strange way, but I don't think it's strange at all. The day gave him something that he almost needed to not deal with the trauma.

30:16Andy Greenwald:It gave him a different mountain to climb and he could focus on the thing that he's been focusing on for his whole life, which is what's in front of him as opposed to what's behind him. The smart character misdirected this season is we all thought that it was going to happen again. And in fact, what's happening as this season winds down is he could go now. He could go, it seems. Sure. And he is not going. Well, this is the best scene of the episode to me, very on the nose, but the pit is a very direct show in a lot of ways, was the Dana-Robbie confrontation outside. Mom and dad are fighting. Well, her just being like, I always like when there's a hierarchy to a television show, but then it gets broken by the characters of the TV show itself.

31:00Robbie is the main character of the pit but I liked the fact that Dana reminded him and the viewers that in real hospitals these places and these institutions have to keep running for as long as they can with or without the heroes, the main characters and the fact that she's like it's still here without Adamson it'll be here without you, it'll be here without me

31:23Andy Greenwald:which is what we said about ER when Dr. Green and Dr. Ross left right, and so it's just like to basically if ego death is what you're looking for, like you can get it here. You know? And I really liked that confrontation that they had. It seems like, I would be curious to know whether or not Dana and Robbie's relationship is something that they have basically gotten feedback about like Catherine Lanassa being who she is and being as popular as she is. and been like, we need to make Dana his foil. Yes. Well, I think that there's the potential for this to be the case, but in the early episodes of season one, it's not necessarily a given that these are the two main characters, that these are the two pillars of the show, the North and South Pole, who you're rooting for.

32:17Andy Greenwald:And what's uniquely interesting about that relationship is that we have no idea if they have ever spoken socially in their lives, if they have ever hung out, If they ever have a different valence of their communication. Like, can they chill out and talk about the pirates? We don't know. And so this scene was particularly interesting because they were going at each other with the level of energy and frenzy that exists in the emergency room. I know this kind of breaks some of the central rules of the show, but in that scene, thinking about what they were like together in that moment, it had me wishing that if we ever get another Beers in the Park moment, like we did at the end of season one, like, could we see what they, or is it better for actually finally having a television show where work family isn't really family?

33:09Andy Greenwald:It's just work. I wanted to talk about like the off-ramp of this season because I believe there's like four episodes left, three episodes left. What number was this? It's 6 p.m., but now they're past shift now. But this is episode 11, is that right? Or episode 12, and there's 15. So we have three episodes left, let's say. Four. you're such a stickler to D2 what about a bonus episode like Stranger Things which I know the powers that be are still denying but the real heads know exist I was pretty bummed out that Sora went out of business because I was almost done assembling my Stranger Things secret episode you're super cut wow they didn't even let you back up where Snape and Tom Bombadil come in can I ask you off the record how did we cast Bombadil uh how did I cast him colorblind I have Shrek playing him that's so sick So Scottish representation, finally.

33:57In the first season, they're like, we're going to finish the mass casualty event. We're going to tidy up. We're going to take a look at Pittsburgh from the roof and from the park. And now we're going to go home. I don't know when these guys are getting off work. Like Santos has her paperwork to do. Joy kind of ostentatiously puts up boundaries. Classic Greenwald move there to be like.

34:18Andy Greenwald:One million percent. To be like, I'm off the clock. I respected the hell out of that. Did you really? Yes. God, you're such a Zoomer. I know. That's why I'm the voice of, I'm the younger voice on this podcast. It's just like, then, then, like, do you really want to be a doctor then? Yeah, she doesn't want to be an emergency room doctor. That's been abundantly clear. I like her character a lot, but that was very funny. It was also sort of an abrupt, like, is this a SAG thing? Like, they didn't want to pay her for extra episodes. No, I think they are really leaning into something that we are not used to seeing, which is a complete lack of sentimentality about entrances and exits.

34:53I'm going to go take a nap for four hours. So goodbye.

34:56Andy Greenwald:And we don't know if he's coming back. I assume he's coming back because of his prominence in the show and, you know, night shift and all that. Yeah. But Nurse Jessie might be gone. And I think this is another example of how nimble they are. They know that the show is going to be running for multiple seasons. They know that they have opportunities to give all of these actors and these characters more room to grow. And because they know that, they're kind of being savages. And they're using something that they didn't intend, which is the departure of Dr. Collins to be permanent, like do not disturb forever.

35:26Andy Greenwald:But they're using the audience's surprise of that to their advantage because now there's a sense in the casual fan of like, Jesse might just get remanded to a different country. We may never see him again. Yeah, sure. It does make me think that if I ever get into like a car accident or something, I want it to happen at like round six. Like get the... Get the fresh blood coming in. Fresh blood, but also like cool, maybe like some of my fan faves are still on the artwork. So they're bringing you in and you're like, oh, thank God, Dr. Shen. I bet you're still on that first donkey's high. That guy loves his.

36:02Andy Greenwald:That's so interesting. We should do an RFK Jr. Dr. Shen thing. Dr. Shen loves Dunkin' Donuts. Does RFK love Dunkin' Donuts? He does not. Have you not been reading the news? Oh, I'm sorry. Financial news only for you. Things going well for your portfolio? Yeah, he was like, you can't call this. There's a lot of opportunity. He was like, you can't call this milk in this coffee drink. What are you talking about? Just shut the fuck up and try and fix some other problems. Are you talking to me? No, him. He's worrying about Dunkin' Donuts milk? Yes. Oh, because of this creamer, the flavored splashes that they put in there?

36:37Andy Greenwald:I can't think of a single bigger problem in America right now, honestly. Do you know what, man? You know what's good? Yeah. Is when you go to Dunk and you get a fucking hazelnut infused whatever. Let people do what they want. Yeah. You know? We used to feel that way in this country. Worry about other shit. I think this is really... Dunkin' Donuts. Do that to camera. Hands off. Send this clip to Bill. Because he loves RFK or because he loves Dunkin'. He's from Boston. I thought that he would represent the... I had no idea RFK was coming for Dunkin' Donuts. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, first Dunkin' Donuts.

37:09Andy Greenwald:That being said... Sweetgreen is next. That being said... It's said to you. I don't want to invalidate any contractual obligations I have to Sweetgreen, but it has, you can feel it. You can feel the kale is from elsewhere now. Elsewhere? Something. It's soft. It just doesn't have a crunch yet. What if that's domestic kale? Because the tariffs of the sweet, delicious Canadian kale. That Ukrainian kale that I've been feasting on. What are you talking about? I don't know. I'm just asking the questions. We're getting way off track and we have a tight show today. Oh. Whitaker and Santos, I thought was nice.

37:42I mean, tell me what you want to talk about because I thought that there were a lot of really nice character moments in this one. Did you catch Santos pocketing...

37:53Andy Greenwald:A scalpel? Scalpel and sutured pack, I think, yeah. I did, I did. And that was the moment when, poorly timed moment that Whitaker chose to be like, admit that you like having me in the house and that we're roommates and we can be friends. I thought she admitted it. She admitted it with her anger, but then... Her casual, the classic Santos frustration, yeah. I think Santos has had a really good arc this season. Yeah, me too. She made Garcia happy. She did a good job. I'm trying to look up the name of the director of this episode. It's Amanda Marsalis, brother. She did great. You did great, Amanda.

38:23And she did a great job in the first season. She did. I don't know. This might be her first, second season in the episode.

38:29Andy Greenwald:So just for the record, this was episode 12. There are three left. You were correct. Noted. Every once in a while. Every once in a while, you get one. I wanted to mention Amanda Marsalis is because I thought the part of the filmmaking excellence of the show is surprisingly unshowy. Like we rarely, even though the camera is constantly moving and the choreography is tighter and more demanding than on I think any other television show currently on the air, it doesn't call a lot of attention to itself. You're focused on the patients and the doctors and the medicine, even if you don't understand it.

39:01Andy Greenwald:So I thought it was really noteworthy and cool when they did take a little cinema moment when the firework guy starts to go south. And Robbie says, Perla, get the brother out of here. And the camera in a one-er followed Perla and the brother out. Perla does some breathing. Every once in a while, they fucking do it, man. They flex. Cinema. As far as patients go, coked out golfer. Whoa, he's not beating the allegations. You know what I mean? Like, there was no... Well, I was like, oh, maybe he has like a brain worm that's made him mean. And it turns out it was just cocaine and white claws. Brain worms just make you hate Dunkin' Donuts, as far as I can tell, from my limited study of the field.

39:41Andy Greenwald:But, yeah, it's kind of funny that, again, sometimes with a show like The Pit, with the relentlessness and the pace, the zigs can be zags. Where it's just like, this douchebag who assaults nurses and golfs and drinks all day might be a jerk. And he has no friends. They're just like, yeah, I'm going to come back at 9 p.m. if I have to. Never met the guy. Yeah. And then the only other one that I wanted to mention was like the only other like big plot thing I wanted to mention. I guess it's just Emma's first day, I suppose, paralleling with joy being like, doctors get burned out. It's important to go off your shift when you do.

40:19I don't get paid to be here. This is my internship. I'm not trying to become an ED doctor anyway. was Emma being like, I'm going to stay after being put in the headlock by a cocaine golfer. So I thought that was, they do nice jobs like balancing out like stories with like, well, there's this way of doing it. There's that way of doing it. Neither one is better than the other.

40:39Andy Greenwald:And or just how about Dana carrying around some tranquilizer ever since she got assaulted last year? Same. Not because I was assaulted, just because you never know. You worked downtown? Slam some Versed before I have to talk to you. Taking town a notch. I would say you want to talk McKay at all she had some pretty cheat to camera scenes of like sometimes I worry I've lost access to my human emotions I thought that that was a bit of a I like Fiona Durif as a performer and I just think that that was a little bit of a rigid scene I agree Langdon kind of being like this lost lamb in the trying to connect with everyone but I thought that was good because it would have been like the hour after you get yelled at like that, deservedly so probably.

41:25And I liked that they even followed up with Santos being like, I don't care that he's an addict. I care that he was an asshole, you know?

41:30Andy Greenwald:Yeah, and they also added context in the Dana and Robbie scene where he's just like, he's a criminal and I let him get away with it, which is a level of it we hadn't really been discussing in terms of why he hates him and thus hates himself. Yes. And Dana called him on it. I think that McKay is a really, really good character and presence in the space and they use her well as like a finishing touch in a lot of canvases. but without the ankle monitor drama of season one, she hasn't had as much to do about herself. So I thought it would be interesting. She's supposed to have a date that night, tonight.

42:00She has three hours till her date.

42:02Andy Greenwald:That doesn't seem as ticking clock to me as Jesse got arrested by ICE agents and is now in a detention center. But, you know, I guess everyone comes with their own points of view to the show. But what she says, but she's the one who says to Robbie at the end, I had friends who would go close to the edge. And so it's curious to see, is she going to be the person who gets him at the right moment? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, there's a lot of different... We have Santos kind of spiraling. We have Langdon, like you would assume, is like, quote-unquote, okay, but I don't know. Mohan is having a crisis of confidence in terms of what she's going to do with her life.

42:40And also, obviously, they've threaded through her relationship to her senior patients really well this season. and I think that this show is not like slick but it might surprise us with who needs care at the end of the season it might be us

42:56Andy Greenwald:because the only other note I have is that if and I don't know what members of the larger Warner Brothers Discovery family or the people that make the show do listen to the pit but I would just like to make a personal request for like 20 % fewer elder care storylines going into season three particularly ones so do you remember how like when we would watch, we reference this often, but like we watched four seasons of The Wire being like no show has ever had this level of verisimilitude about the drug war than The Wire. And in season five they showed journalists and we're like, nah, this is some real phony bullshit.

43:30Andy Greenwald:That's the only time I got taken out so far in two seasons of The Pit is when these stubborn old couple who can't live alone accept help thanks to the patient care of two young doctors. Well, they accept help because it turns out like their meds were the only thing in their way. Let me tell you something. Where's the camera? It's probably not just the Mets. You know what I mean? I'm just going to say, like, that was a little bit. Shout out Brittany Young from GLOW, though, as the daughter. That was great. I thought it was nice to see her. I do like seeing friendly faces from other TV shows pop up, like it's the love boat.

44:02Patrick Adams is going to be joining us soon, but I did want to talk to you about Top Chef. Oh, Christ, yeah. We need to get into this. This is the thing. Sometimes I need you to kind of watch the sheet music while you're playing fiddle, you know?

44:15Andy Greenwald:Like Tom Bombadil? I have one thing to say about this whole episode. And if you haven't watched the most recent episode of Top Chef, which is the third episode. Season 23, episode three, True Colors. And it's about the elimination challenge involves using natural dyes. That's what RFK wants to do, by the way. If Nena hadn't been sent home, she seems like a lovely person and I'm sure is an excellent chef. If she had not been sent home, it would have been my January 6th. because they opened it up to the idea that somehow not putting food on a plate wouldn't get you sent home. Like, she just has, like, an onion sauce at the bottom of a bowl.

44:55Andy Greenwald:Which, by the way, for you as a diner, that's as good as no food. I don't really love onions, yeah. I mean, I know that they're in everything, but, like, as, like, a... I fucking hate raw onions. Yes. And I don't really like... And a bowl of dyed yellow onion soubis. No. I would have just been like, I pass. And then they kind of, the judges, which I thought this was a fascinating, and this is an awesome season of this show so far. But I thought it was so interesting because Nana goes a little bit early. I think she's like second or third. Can't finish any of her plates, like does just this stuff because her chicken galantine won't come together.

45:32And she undercooked it, right?

45:33Andy Greenwald:First she undercooked it, then she didn't get it on. She just didn't even slice it. I thought they used the inevitability of her exit as a green light to tee off on all of the contestants. Yeah, we had angry Tom early in the season. And it almost got to the point where I was like, if it's so easy, you fucking go do it. Look at you. Not like in a mean way, but I was like, is there somebody out there who can really easily use natural dyes to confuse but delight the judging panel? And use them in a way, I think the brief was have them be brilliantly colored, which is also very hard. because look, shout out to our health secretary.

46:09Andy Greenwald:I've seen Froot Loops in England. You know what I mean? Oh my God. I've seen them. And what do they look like? Very muted. Very chill. Very chill. It's kind of like Cool Ranch Doritos over there. You're like, what is this? Why does this taste like milk and cheese? And not like I'm just going to keep eating them. But let me ask you, don't you prefer the American version of Cool Ranch Doritos? Yes. Where it's just like pure Versed? I don't. Yes. I don't. You don't need to lie to me. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, I can eat healthy, and I can also like Doritos. I know it's not healthy. I contain multitudes.

46:41Andy Greenwald:I have made a choice here. Yeah. Why do we sound libertarian all of a sudden? Also, ironically, I find I don't like cigarettes over there. Okay. Which is probably for the same reasons, like where they're treating it differently or less or whatever. It's just like tobacco. They had to come here to get it. And they better... The camel company puts smack in theirs. It's toasted, I believe. Anyway, sorry, go back. No, it's a great, first of all, this season has been absolute fire. It's been great. There is a completely renewed pep in its step, and it's really impressive. And one of the things that was so impressive about this episode is they are not hand-holding anyone.

47:18Andy Greenwald:The two challenges of this episode, there's a quick fire with our old pal Emeril comes, and it is a challenge to class up liver mush. If you had a drinking game in which you took a drink of alcohol every time a character said liver mush, my respect and condolences to your family, you died. That was, and by the way, that's basically what you and I would call Scrapple. Yeah, I thought it was going to be more like pate, but it wasn't. You looked real sad when you said it. Well, I didn't eat it, but I didn't look like pate after a while. But I really like that early on, which is often a time because it's hard to track the characters anyway at this point.

47:56Andy Greenwald:This is maybe a more convenient time to be like a Trolls 6 activation challenge, but instead they were like, here's a regional delicacy that many people would turn their noses up at and you have to make it good. Yes. Was cool. And then the dye challenge was another thing where they like actually, in a way that I feel like they had kind of lost touch with the last few seasons. They educated. They were like, this is a hub of garment manufacturing and dyeing. And so we're going to have you do this thing. I actually liked they almost all fucked up because it was a big flashing sign being like, this is hard.

48:28And I know it was television. So I know that they have to kind of entertain that. but Nana had had not gotten her food. Well, she left a mold on her in her first dish for elimination. For her second elimination dish, she had completed some of them, didn't plate them great, had obviously, she was quite upset about that. And then in the third episode, completely messes up her chicken gallantine died dish. I guess very upset, but to her credit, was like, I'm walking out in front and I'm being like, I did not complete my dish. then you get 17 chefs after her and they're all being told like you fucked up

49:05Andy Greenwald:so do you think it was melodramatic television reality show optics at play in which they had to kind of hide the ball and make you forget that this challenge was decided instantly when it started or because I think even if that's the case they pivoted it into an opportunity to just roast everyone in a way that I think which I thought was cool but the last 15 minutes of the show I was like they're not really gonna make some weird like Nana not doing the dish at all was better than somebody making something boring who's the woman was it Sherry who was just like I have studied decades for this challenge I know how to make like beautifully rainbow yeah the black the charcoal pork thing that she made but then she made like rainbow colored spetzle and then downed them in like white sauce and then made black, would she make black parsnip, gray parsnip mush?

50:03Andy Greenwald:Yes. Dude, they fucked up. It was kind of interesting. Yeah. And do you feel, but speaking of your, January 6th was a beautiful day of liberation ideology that you're bringing to this television show. Only for Dunkin' Donuts, though. Fair. Are you justice for Day? Do you feel now that the ring mold debacle... You could say the second guy as well. The guy who made the Vindaloo lamb. Justine. Like he made his cumulative cooking probably stood higher than Nana's. Yeah, it's pretty, it was interesting that they had to. And now Nana gets to go to Last Chance Kitchen and those other two chefs aren't.

50:38So that's interesting to me.

50:41Andy Greenwald:That's interesting. Are you doing the wind horse fingers? Why is that? Why is that happening? This is, I know people, my assumption is that people who don't watch Top Chef or have stopped watching Top Chef have also stopped listening to us talk about it. But I would say, again, this season has the juice. It has the juice. And I think people should check it out. Kaya's watching every week before these pods. Did you watch before the pod? I watched last night. Oh, good. What do you think, Kaya? Season-wise, Nana-wise, January 6th-wise, if you just want to weigh in. Would you have been upset if Nana had won?

51:13Or not won, but if Nana... Yeah, if Nana... Not won.

51:15Andy Greenwald:She was certified the winner. Do you understand what I mean by that? If they did not send Nana home, I would have been upset. Oh, yeah. Just upset. I was like, you're done. Yeah. You're done. Yeah. Well, she has a more reasonable temperament than you. You're a little hot-headed about these things. Let's stop down for a second. Okay. And when we come back, we'll have Patrick Adams from the Madison. Andy and I are honored to be joined by Patrick Adams. It's happening. From the Madison. We've been kind of circling each other. Long-time listener, first-time caller. Online flirtation. I brought this for you, Andy.

51:49I wanted to bring a gift. Thank you. Just like a peace offering. I just want to say, if this is from Taylor Sheridan, and he's giving Andy some kind of gift through you,

51:57Andy Greenwald:they did check it at security, so we're fine. This is actually the Hornet's Nest from the Ad House. This is very nice. Oh my God. I just wanted to make sure you had it for your collection. This is physical need. That's so fine. You know, obviously signed. I didn't sign this in case Chris wanted one, but I feel like you probably need both. I really appreciate this. Famously unavailable on streaming, too. I know you're already off book on this series probably, but I just wanted to make sure you had physical media. That's really kind of you. Any bonus content on here? Yeah, tons. But I don't want to ruin the surprise.

52:33Did you do an audio track?

52:34Andy Greenwald:I think actually that's a good question. I think we did on the first season. Yeah, commentaries. So yeah, you can get the behind the scenes. Could you just bring this back when Megan signs it? Oh, damn. It's going good. It's going good. It's such a pleasure. Thank you. You guys know I'm huge fans. Thank you for having me. It's like we've been aware that you listen. It's sort of shocking. Are you shocked? Are you shocked when people listen to your podcast? Yes. Yes. Really? Yes. I think we just assume. You guys are a big deal. Sometimes I think they just indulge us in that these cameras aren't connected to anything.

53:08No, no, no. I'm there. I'm listening weekly. Except when you're going to spoil a show that I love. Because I'm watching industry now because of you. Oh. So I try to avoid industry talk. Are you at industry? Season two. Season two. It's just basically stuck. There's a lot coming. There's a lot. I was going to ask you, you know, this is sort of the end of your Madison run. Last interview. For S1. For S1. S2 is already in the can. Uh-huh. Do you feel like you are coming out the other end of a shoot of like a kind of Taylor Sheridan promo tour whirlwind? Like, how's it been? I have never experienced anything like this.

53:41I also have a two-month-old daughter, as we just discussed. So I don't know where I am or what's happening. and this press tour like all things with Taylor Sheridan is just like the craziest version of a press tour for a TV show I mean they don't really do this for TV shows your show probably will have this yes but I won't be floating around the country to talk about it so we did London we did New York and then I went to Toronto because I'm from Toronto oh awesome to help sort of prime the pump for the locals yeah yeah we gotta get Canadians excited I bet Canadians are digging Taylor's stuff oh they love it they love it everywhere were.

54:16I didn't know why we were in London, but apparently it's huge. He's a big deal there. Yeah, I can imagine. They watch Landman in a different way over there, I think. This confirms all of our priorities.

54:25Andy Greenwald:Yeah. How do you think they watch it? You let me know how much we can spoil about the television show The Madison. Sure. But I would say that you were doing a press tour with actors whose lifespan on the show are limited. I think we talked about that part the first time. And so we did see some of these actors. Yes. You decide whether we name them or not. We had to walk a bit of a high wire. And some of these actors had to be like, boy, it was really great doing that scene. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We can't. I mean, and a lot of us never worked together. Right. As a result of that.

54:53But you had to be like, yeah, how great it was to be on set with them. No, but we could walk a fine line. I mean, we were given the ability to talk about loss and that there was a tragic loss. They just didn't want to name that loss. I think that's diagrammed in the trailers and stuff like that. And we talked about it when we talked about the first couple of episodes. let's talk a little bit about your character Russell if you don't mind we can do like the sort of more official have you guys watched you have to watch everything we don't have to watch everything but I choose to watch I chose to watch the Madison and it was like you are a Taylor fan yeah I would say that there's like 60 % of it I just sincerely like and then there's 40 % of it I'm just like this is so I'm so curious about like how it gets made how he writes all this stuff.

55:44That was what I was a dork for. When I showed up, that's what I was interested in is how is this man doing this?

55:49Andy Greenwald:Because I suffer from, I termed this the other day, TDS. I have Taylor Derangement Syndrome. Yes, you do. And yet, I'm still watching. Yeah, we've got you still. So it works on either side. I'll be honest, I was probably a bit more in your camp before I started. I hadn't consumed a lot of Taylor. I'd seen 1883, which I think I only watched because I knew that this was maybe in the mix and the director that we had, Christina Boros on the show had done a lot of that. She's really good on that. So I started with 1883 and was really impressed. I watched some of 1923, but I had never seen Yellowstone and then tried it and it wasn't for me.

56:22It wasn't something that I wanted to stick with. But I was profoundly impressed by the production. I was like, something is going on here. So to go and step onto the set and sort of get to see the machine in operation was pretty remarkable. What is the machine like? We're both curious about that. I mean, they've been making shows now for what, 10 years? So this is a group of people who have been working together in an environment that's not easy to shoot in. You know, you're shooting on hills that are like, that's Stacy's Valley in the show. It's just like, you know, technical. I'm a nerd for technical.

56:56And like shooting in that valley is an insane thing to try and pull off and they do it with no problem. You're shooting in the elements. It's raining, it's windy. We shoot five cameras, everything. Everything is five cameras. You're inside in a restaurant. we're shooting five cameras you're out in the field with five cameras so it's just like the a team that has been you know found by taylor and his team over the course of many years they all love it because it's job security they're everybody's so happy to be there and if you're not good at your job you've probably not been asked back so you you sort of step onto that set usually you step onto a set and you feel like everybody's getting to know each other it's like the first day of a new school for everyone but on a taylor set you're the new kid at school they've been at school for years and you're the new kid and they're like what are what do you got the five camera thing is that like the way they used to talk about like friday night lights where it's like there's coverage everywhere so you can kind of do your own thing yes it's friday night lights was a little more on the shoulder you know right they would be handheld and so i did one episode of friday night lights and i remember i mean famously there was no rehearsal even they would just show up and be like go just see what happens which was terrifying um as a as an actor just walking on the set.

58:07This is more prepared. We're rehearsing. We know where they are. But, you know, I'm a camera guy. I'm a nerd for cameras. And I love to know you're on a 50 and you're on an 80. And on Suits, we would never have more than three cameras in a courtroom, two cameras every other day. So I'd always be aware, okay, we're kind of here and here. And as an actor that does something to your brain, on this set, you can't do those calculations anymore. There's too many cameras.

58:30Andy Greenwald:Also, it's not even a set. I mean, one of the things that we definitely agree on about the Madison is it is gorgeous. Beautiful, right? shot after shot is just stunning. Unbelievable. And so you spent years in a courtroom on a set. In a warehouse in northern Toronto. It sounds sexier the more we talk about it. Suddenly you're on this wheat field, golden wheat field somewhere in Montana. Overwhelming. How does that change both the performance and the overall experience of having the job? Well, you arrive with a lot of gratitude. I mean, I remember when we drove out there day one, the base camp is an hour.

59:05you get on the highway from bozeman you drive like 40 minutes you get off the highway you get on the small road then you hit the dirt road then you're on the dirt road for 20 minutes until you get to the base camp and then you're at base camp you get ready and then you do the 20 minute drive down the roads that taylor has built taylor and his not taylor personally has not built the road but they've built the roads to get down to the cabins that they've put next to this um you know next to the river whereas before it was just a ranch there was nothing there before so you arrive filled with like the majesty of nature.

59:37You've watched the sun come up over the river. So that does something to you. For me as the character, Russell's scared of everything. Like, so there's so much to interact with. When the wind would blow in my face, I would get to pretend I have dirt in my eyes. There'd be bugs that would drive me crazy. Like I was just trying to use the environment as much as possible to be as uncomfortable as possible. That's how I use the environment always. Yes. So I'm glad that that became... I can relate to that sometimes. But Patrick's a bit more comfortable in that place. So you'd show up and be very grateful that you get to shoot in this insane place with these people that know how to shoot it.

1:00:11That's a big difference. Because if you could be in that environment with maybe people who are learning it for the first time, I don't know if you've had that experience, but you can be miserable because nobody kind of knows what to do when the wind blows or starts raining. But these are people that have been on the front lines with Taylor for so long. I was reading some old interviews with you last night and I came across one when you were, it was like from EW when you were nominated for SAG for Suits. And you said, talking about the character Mike on Suits, you were like, the thing about Mike is it gives me the chance to embody the energy of somebody who's in a new environment that scares them and that they're not sure that they can survive in.

1:00:47And you were like, you were talking about basically... I seem drawn to this. Well, why? What's going on? I don't know. Yeah, you don't want to be... I feel very uncomfortable all the time. Mike McD at the poker table. Like, I know exactly what's going on. You kind of like to be a little bit on your toes. I think I relate to that more. I don't know. I think the desire, especially as an actor and people want you to be a leading man, is to be super cool and be the Harvey Specter, to be that character. And I certainly spent a lot of time on suits wishing I could occupy that space and be that. But lo and behold, you come off suits and this is what I'm drawn to.

1:01:19It's just what I relate to. I'm much more that guy who's uncomfortable and unsure how to be and how to be with people. And I'm into discovering their confidence along the way. You know, Mike became a much more, I guess he started confident, but he was in a very alien environment. And I thought that was fun. And that was my experience of being on a show for the first time. I had never, I mean, I'd done guest star stuff, but I'd never, you know, been on a series where we're shooting 16 episodes and doing all the things that come with that process. And so I would have thought maybe I'd be more confident now.

1:01:53Sure. But when I read a script like this, I see that character and I just think as an actor, there's so much more to do. It's so much more fun. I'm more of a Lewis Litt guy. He's on Suits. He's a character from Suits.

1:02:05Andy Greenwald:That was the beloved USA series. Fire up the DVD player. I'm more of a Lewis Litt guy than I think maybe a Harvey Specter guy. Gotcha. I think that's more interesting. Like Tom Wamskans is like, you know, that's who I'm drawn to. I know that one. Yeah, you know that one. I do want to ask about the scripts because as you alluded to at the beginning, the Madison has a sort of unique production history. You shot one six-episode season in 24. Yeah. Is that right? Then you shot a second season of six episodes in 25. We just finished it this summer. Before any of it premiered. December, yes, exactly.

1:02:37Andy Greenwald:With a project like this, like all Taylor projects, he's the writer. Yeah. When you signed on to the first season or when you showed up, are all six scripts locked or is it a fluid process? Not even close. Fluid's a word, yeah. I think I got one script and I got to decide whether this was something I wanted to do based on that script. And if you watch the first episode, but Russell does not have a lot to do. So it was really just a conversation with him. One of the few conversations I've had with him where he talked about the part and how he wanted to shoot the show and how he likes to work and what he had responded to in the tape that I had sent in.

1:03:13Did you have to fly to Texas to have this conversation? No, luckily. He does these tests in Wyoming. Oh, okay. Which I don't know why they're in Wyoming. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why not? But strangely, in parallel to the show, So my stepfather passed a few years ago. And we had this, thank you. And we had this cabin out in the wilderness north of Toronto. It's sort of a common thing to have cottages up there. And we'd been going there our whole lives, but it was really his domain. He took care of this place. It's very remote, hard to get to. And we had just bought it from my mom. And I had just arrived at this property, at this cabin and was like, oh my God, I got to take care of this place.

1:03:52I don't know how to do it. When I got the audition for the Madison. And so, long story short, we were in this environment living out the story of the Madison, apparently, in our own little world, when he said, well, I loved your tape, come to Wyoming. And it was like, it's on an island where we were. I was like, I can't leave my family on an island. My father, who's not well, was coming to visit us. It was just like, I know this is an amazing job opportunity, but I cannot come to Wyoming to see you. And I thought that would be the end of it. and to his credit, he was like, just send another tape and my team still thought you're never gonna, this isn't gonna happen if you don't go to Wyoming.

1:04:27Like that's a part of the process. Taylor needs to like see you in person and smell you and see how you do things. And I... Make you do an episode of Naked and Afro alone or whatever. So I thought it probably won't work out and I made another tape and then he called and said, you got the part. So I didn't have to go through that whole process. It sounded very scary. That also sounds like that would appeal. Like you were living the show. That's what I thought. I'm like, I'm in a cabin. Yeah. Having this family experience. My father's coming to visit. Sorry, that's more important to me. Yeah. In this moment than blowing up this whole thing to come to the show.

1:05:03Sure, that's tailor-coded. I think that's good. I was hoping that. I don't know if it ever landed because he never said anything about it. I didn't get it. This is the first he's hearing of it. He only listens to this show. Yeah, yeah. Did you feel like, what was it like to jump into that blind with only the first script and not knowing the full trajectory of the character. Because I think for as much as he's an outsider in terms of the environment, he's a city guy, he's a finance guy, and he's all of a sudden out here in the wild. He's also the only guy among a bunch of women and an outsider to the family, so to speak, because he's the son-in-law by marriage.

1:05:39It was a leap of faith. Yeah, it was a leap of faith. I mean, look, there's worse things than, I mean, I knew, even though I wasn't super familiar with all Taylor's work, I was like, I know this is going to be a big deal. I know that his shows are a big deal. And I know Michelle Pfeiffer's in it. And as an actor, it's like, I'm going to get a front row seat to whatever she's going to do with this part, which is really attractive. And I just sort of trusted that he would become something more than what was in that first thing. I guess I trusted that instinct that I related to the part. and it just sounded kind of like an adventure that I was willing to go on.

1:06:16The Michelle Pfeiffer thing

1:06:17Andy Greenwald:we have to talk about because she's so amazing generally and she is amazing on the show. Isn't she like phenomenal? But it's kind of unique or at least very rare in Hollywood. She took off, essentially took off decades to raise her family and to have different priorities but then she comes back with her 100 mile per hour fastball still intact. Unbelievable. Just paint in the corners. And to watch it on set is to like, it's like I get any great craftsman you know when they paint you're like oh that looks easy i could do that like not that it looks easy but she just it's so effortless right yeah like when you're on set you're like oh that's you just did that like it didn't it doesn't seem to take i'm sure that there's a ton of prep and god knows what she's doing to get into that place but she's just so effortless in the doing of it that it's it's a thing to behold is there was there a specific moment you remember where she went from holy shit that's cat woman to your colleague i never got over it if i'm honest i still get nervous around her.

1:07:12I told her on the press tour and she hates it because it's like the last thing in the world she wants. She's like, we got to get rid of that. She doesn't want any like mystique. She just wants to work. But I was doing this stupid thing where I was re-watching like every movie that she's ever made while I was working with her thinking that that was going to help. Did you go do the Chris Farley interview with her every day? Remember that time in Grease 2? That's exactly what I was doing. I'd watch like Age of Innocence and then show up and have to shoot a scene with her. I'm like, what am I doing?

1:07:36So when you acted

1:07:37Andy Greenwald:with Daniel Day-Lewis, was it like this exactly I'm like call me Russell I'm Russell did you watch Baker Boys when you were going through you know I couldn't I couldn't because it's not available oh okay did you know that it's not available I didn't I hate that is it because of the music you have to get the DVD yeah it's also like one of those things that it might have been like three studios that have since been merged yeah it wasn't because Bo Bridges is like that wasn't mine I think they're just playing like piano jazz I'm sure it's like public domain at this point but it's one of my favorites I was hoping you could get on this as folks at the ringer you can find out Simmons is a huge Michelle Pfeiffer fan.

1:08:09Yes, I've heard. And we've talked about doing Tequila Sunrise and a bunch of her movies. Yeah, Baker Boys is, I remember being one of my favorites, but I couldn't revisit it because I didn't have the DVD. Like, I was curious because, you know, you've also done, you've gotten to work with like Dustin Hoffman, you know, on Luck, and whether or not there is a commonality of people at that stature, like that you are ever like, I wonder, you know, obviously maybe their acting styles, their acting schools they come from are different, but is there something that like, that top of the call sheet kind of person brings that is describable?

1:08:41I've been around some top of the call sheet people that are not people you'd want to be around. But in my experience, especially with those two people, they love acting. That's it. They're really disinterested in being stars or what you think of them as stars. In fact, it's kind of a burden because it's a sort of series of expectations that they're not interested in. I really related to Michelle right off the bat. She would talk about how nervous she was, like real nervous. and I'm nervous all the time, as I've already explained. So to have a person who's delivered those performances say to you, like, I'm as terrified as you are.

1:09:13I don't know what I'm doing. And then, of course, she steps up and throws the fastball and you're like, well, you know exactly what you're doing. But you need that process of saying, like, I don't know. I don't know if I have it this time. Dustin was a little bit less like that. I think Dustin knew he had it. But he's just having fun, though. He just loves it. I was on an elevator with him shooting Luck once, a fake elevator on set. and they had put in the little numbers that change that go up and down to show you what floor it was. And we were alone in the elevator waiting for them to move some lights and I was just standing behind him quietly.

1:09:42And I was watching him watch these lights change as they were like making the floor change. And he was acting the floor. No. Stopping and starting. Like the cameras weren't on him. He was just like staring at it. To feel like his body was like - He just was like, this is fun. How could I pretend this elevator's moving up and down? And he looked at me noticing, he's like, pretty cool, huh? you're like oh yes sir let's do it together no it wasn't the pretty cool what I'm doing it's just like pretty cool it's like movie magic that's awesome they're like kids in a way there's some great stuff in the finale season finale with you and Michelle I was curious about you on the flight back the joke and you guys do the Irish car bombs together but she actually starts to unpack your character a little bit I was curious whether the stuff that's in that season finale about kind of getting at like your character Russell's like what do you like man like what do you think that is totally unexamined yeah and that like if that's a signal towards like what his stuff again I have no idea I hope that's what it is you know it's a leap of faith I took that scene to mean like yeah we're exposing that this character has just lived kind of in fear for lack of a better word of his wife and just sort of getting along and just trying to do whatever he can do to like not cause any waves and I think that scene is her saying like, who are you?

1:11:02What do you want? What are you doing? And his inability to answer that, I hope, plants a seed for him. I think going into the second season, there's some stuff that shows that he's on the path to trying to figure out really who he is in this environment and how he wants to show up for these people. But yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. That's the thing with Taylor. You really don't know. Sometimes we didn't get those final scripts until days before we shot.

1:11:25Andy Greenwald:This is kind of a bigger picture question and it's a little thinky, but you're here on this podcast. That's a different podcast. No, you listen to the podcast. It's a different podcast. To look at your IMDb and your CV, like you've had such a phenomenal and long career, which is hard for an actor to have any time. But it also felt like it was really reflective of the changes in the industry. Oh, yeah. Where if you look at the first few years of your career, you're doing guest spots on really prominent shows and getting your reps in in different styles. Friday Night Lights, Lost, Cold Case, like big shows of the era.

1:11:53Andy Greenwald:And then you get the type of thing that a lot of working actors out here dream of, which is like, I get to play a cool character on a popular show. and I know where my paycheck's coming from and I know my colleagues, I have my parking space or whatever. And then that era of reliable series work has completely changed. Evaporated. And now you're in the streaming era and you may have found it again, but it involves once a year before anyone's seen the show, flying to Montana. Yeah. Almost even, I don't even realize there's a question in that. It's just your observations from he's funky. I feel just scrappy.

1:12:25I think I'm just scrappy. I look at my IMDB and it just looks sort of like patched together because for me, it was all just survival. It's like, what are we doing? I get a guest spot, you know? Like, I feel like I'm always hustling. People always ask you when you do press tours, like, what drew you to this character? And it's like, a lot of times, like, I have kids, I need a job, you know? Like, I want to sound cooler than that. Like, I have all the opportunity in the world and I do have more opportunity than most, but I love what I do. I love acting. And so even at 44 and tired and three kids, I just, I try to take that Dustin story to heart or Michelle, which is just follow, you know, find a script that lights something up in me.

1:13:03Even if it's Russell and it's three scenes in the first episode, I go, I can do something with that. And lucky enough, in this case, you get to do it with like the top-notch people. But I just love to do it. I really love acting. Do you have any like, have you ever like been like, oh, this is a different industry than it was seven years ago, 12 years ago? or maybe it's always you so it's like there's a consistent thing about your perspective but I think Taylor's stuff is this weird hybrid it's hard because he like exists in this like nobody else he's not even in the name but sometimes he's made up his own industry you're watching Dallas and sometimes it feels like you're watching an action blockbuster film you know so it's like this crazy hybrid of like very old school TV principles and new new feature film stuff and everyone's a little different like our show I don't know so many of the other shows I wouldn't say rely on it but like the cartels around the corner and someone's coming for the land don't spoil season two our show didn't doesn't have any of that it's literally it feels yet maybe but it just feels like Taylor is you know I don't know where he writes or how he writes but he sits down he's like meditating on grief he always talks about plot that was the one thing he said in that early conversation was that he's not driven by plot, you know, which says to me.

1:14:24I too have seen Landman. You know, the process of writing a show, as you know, often is let's put a bunch of cards on the wall and figure out story B and story B and you by committee. Now you go write it, but then we're going to put notes on it. And it's this is a guy in a room going like, this is what I'm thinking about. And sometimes for better, sometimes for worse, if you're if you're not a fan. But I will say it's kind of cool to be on a show that's just like one person's vision. And they are allowed to do whatever they want. Yeah. And nobody's coming in and saying, well, what if it was a little bit more of this or that?

1:14:57It's his idea. And he trusts Christina absolutely. And I cannot speak highly enough about her. I mean, she is, when you talk about the visual part of the show, she came up through the camera department. She was a director of photography. So her spirit is as much imprinted on this thing as his is. And to his credit, he really lets her run with the ball. So we're given a lot of leeway. It's like, these are the words. Do with them what you will. So he casts people that he loves. He's put Christina in a position where he trusts her. And then he's like, this is what I've written. Go see what happens.

1:15:31When you read the scripts, when you get them, do they feel different than a typical episodic television script? because like when you watch him, it does this. You have a 20 minute dinner scene. Yeah. And you're like, what? Yeah. Or you're like, wait, Russell's going to go out with her? Yeah. You know what I mean? Like Russell's going to go out with Stacy and like they're going to, isn't it going to be the daughters have like a final, like that's the way the episode should end is they have like this resolution. he doesn't seem to care about the expectations. But that must make it interesting as a, not a script reader and an actor.

1:16:01I think it's fun to play those scenes. Yeah. I mean, it sometimes leaves you scratching your head and sometimes you're like, oh, I thought I'd have a moment. You'd sort of expect you'd get a moment that ends up going to someone else. But I think we all bought into this story early on. We both, we all believed in it. We believed in Michelle. We were all there to support her at this performance, especially given what she had to do in the first season. So, you know, you're kind of along for the ride.

1:16:25Andy Greenwald:Was Taylor with you on the press tour in New York? No. I really wanted to know what going to New York City with Taylor is like, having watched the first episode of the Madison. Did you watch his introduction to the premiere? It's very tender. No, I didn't see that. I told you. He was like, this is like, you know, I lived in New York. I love New York, but New York didn't love me back. It was a beautiful, he's a remarkably, I don't know why remarkable. He's an amazing writer and he's obviously prolific, but the way he spoke from the heart. I want that show. I want a young Taylor. He doesn't do a lot of public talking, speaking.

1:16:56Andy Greenwald:No. Taylor, the early LCD sound system shows, being like, this isn't working for me. Something's off. You only liked other DFA stuff. I wanted to just so you have the three kids you're a working actor but like are you are you an avid TV watcher I'm a pretty avid TV watcher I mean you know we have kids I don't know how you watch what you watch with kids like you're I don't watch that much but you do on the show you're talking about all of it what do you mean I mean you know you're an actor you know it's like sometimes you kind of fake it yes he can do I'm waiting for your Bluey watch episodes oh my gosh because we're deep in Bluey I am held I'm held back by this guy I'm out I'm going to be honest with you come on and we'll do a double-edged episode.

1:17:34April 9th. Go for it. That's right.

1:17:36Andy Greenwald:That's it. Finally cover the real stuff. Yeah, I try to watch as much as possible. That's why I love your show, honestly, because it's a cool guide to like, you guys have set me onto some things that I didn't know about. I tried watching the first season of Industry early on and life happened. I liked it, but I just, life happened. So to hear you guys talk about it, it's like, okay, no, I know. Our tastes are aligned. I'm going to want to watch that show. Watching The Pit. What else are we watching? DTF. We just started. What do you think of that? I like it. I think the tone is really cool. Did you do Patriot?

1:18:06Did you watch that when it was on? I loved Patriot. Wait, is that him? Yeah. Oh, I didn't realize. Yeah, it's Steve Conrad. Oh, that's why I love it. I think it's like the people who love Patriot, I think, are much more. I've tried with Patriot. Maybe I should try again. You know, Patriot's, I'm saying I loved Patriot. I don't even know if I finished Patriot, but I just remember loving the vibe. I was so in on the vibe in his performance. Yeah, I was in. So that's how I felt about this. I was like, I just felt the tone. was different than most things. And that on TV can sometimes be enough because there's so much that feels the same.

1:18:37As a Canadian, have you ever done Shorzy? Have you done Letterkenny or any of that stuff? No, I love them too much. I can't do that. They're too good. No, I mean, but like, do you watch that stuff? I watch Letterkenny. I watch Shorzy. I have not finished Heated Rivalry yet, but my sister is a fan. Okay. Orphan Black was, I guess, a Canadian co-production that I was a big fan of. And then I tweeted my way onto that show for a minute. And now I'm friends with Tatiana Maslany, which is amazing. That's good.

1:19:03Andy Greenwald:Your social media manifests things. It does. Look at us. This is really and they say it's all bad but I don't think that's true. Tried to find our videos yesterday. I have to look them up. Someone has to post this on social so we can get a little history here because I couldn't find the original. It was like a video of you filming your car radio and being like. You have to understand how surreal that was. Because you're drunk. Because I do. I literally listen every week and you guys had never talked about suits ever. Nor did we. Which is what made the video so amazing. Because you did in that case Suits came up and You were just laughing about like why is this show No Chris like it's pretty good and I was basically like Yes I know it starred people like Patrick J.

1:19:40Andy Greenwald:Adams And I didn't watch it I literally said something Just like a drive by As you were driving by How bad was the response You've made commentary about how some people came after you After I made a post Yes no you got the suit stance Were they mean? No they're a polite group They're passionate They want to educate Yeah, yeah, yeah. They lead with open arms. How much Suits have you watched? Since this podcast started? Yeah. Yeah, where are we at? He was waiting for physical media copies. Have you seen one episode of Suits? From what I understand. You did a show on USA. I did. I did. They didn't make you watch Suits before?

1:20:18Is that part of your podcast?

1:20:21Andy Greenwald:Weirdly, they made me watch Royal Pains. Yeah. God damn it. They were like, from the Blue Sky era. We'd prefer you to focus on this. now you you don't have a place to start and you don't have to stream it you get that high quality it's really kind of you we'll pivot because we do like to zag on this show so now three years after it became the number one show in the world we'll do Suits now it's time now's the time but only the DVD versions of Suits yeah and I'll be like actually the episodes are one and a half minutes longer there's a little extra content can we do a Ringer rewatch of Suits that I'll be involved in yes let's pitch it here probably okay yes perfect do you notice everyone yes probably yes probably yes that's maybe not gonna happen.

1:20:59I was thinking about who would want to be on it. Bill Simmons, obviously.

1:21:03Andy Greenwald:I mostly heard from Juliet about my suits erasure. She's a big fan. I don't know Juliet, so. She lives in New York. She's our head of operations. Let's get her in. We've just created a moment for her where she's on the subway listening to it and she hears one of her favorite actors be like, hi Juliet. Thank you, Juliet. But this is how we work. Do you want to know a fun ringer thing that you can cut out? But Adam Naiman, I went to high school with. No way. Yeah. I love Adam. He's the best. Oh my God. he's my favorite film critic can I nerd out with you for a second what's the camera thing you were looking at my shirt I saw that you did you've done some photography exhibits yeah yeah yeah I have a couple of exhibits I haven't done a ton of that but I survived as a photographer when I was an actor I was taking headshots and do you ever get into like the film side of it like the actual like I shoot film yeah I shoot a lot of film oh you mean like moving images because you were speaking so fondly of the photography department but on shows you're on.

1:21:59That's what I'm drawing. I directed some episode of Suits. You'll discover those along the way. Later on. And I love directing. They're perverse, by the way. They're just really masturbating. Very Lynchian inspired. Really dark. What is under these suits? I'm super dry. That's where when I'm on set, I'm always just dorking out with the camera department and trying to figure out. Will you hang out when it's not like a scene of yours just to see what they're doing and stuff? I was shadowing Christina on this and usually when I'd shadow Christina, I'd just go and hang out with the camera department and ask them questions.

1:22:28And I just love cameras. I love visual storytelling. I love getting to understand when you have five cameras, there's so many people who are focused on different things and trying to figure out how you organize all those cameras. Like, well, who's going for the close-up? And on most shows, there's like an A camera and I am in charge of the close-ups. And on this show, it was like so fluid. It was like, no, you're there now. Get that. You get that close-up. You're feeling that. Shoot that eagle that's flying by right now. It was like sort of this beautiful orchestra that nobody really needed to be told what to do and they all understood it.

1:23:01And so, yeah, I don't know. I'm just fascinated by the camera. So it was interesting to me when the actors start to gravitate towards that. I saw Giovanni Ribisi is super into it. He makes the camera. He made the camera that one battle was shot on. Yeah, and he was the DP on Strange Darling, like this really good kind of horror movie that came out a few years ago. I got to work with him once on his show, which was called... Sneaky Pete. Sneaky Pete, yeah. oh yeah we covered that I liked that and it was amazing he's such a trap he loves cameras yeah I sometimes see him walking around in Atwater with like a camera on his neck he would love that just say take a picture of me photograph Patrick man thank you so much for coming on the watch thank you great to meet you thank you for the gift the green light to come on when you finish industry come back on we'll talk about that I would love it good luck with season 2 whenever that comes but congratulations on season 1 let me come back for season 2 please Tell Taylor Chris said hi.

1:23:55I will.