‘Pluribus’ Episode 6 and ‘The Chair Company’ Season 1 Finale

23:19And it's like funny.

23:20Andy Greenwald:I'm very badly burnt. that it's not funny, that it's really funny, that it's not as funny, and that it is hilarious. And that's kind of how I feel about some of the rhythms of this show, where it's like, there'll be five minutes where I'm like, what the fuck am I watching? And then he'll just do one thing. He'll react to Barb in one way, or make a face, and I'm IRL LOLing. Here's the thing that I might even suggest to you, and we've talked around versions of this. what if the show isn't really totally a comedy oh this is what i think i was worried about earlier in the season where i was like i think they think that this is like like well this is like twin peaks the return or something i mean you you brought that up i think it's the best comp i think that this is the closest television has ever gotten to having the spirit of twin peaks just full stop i think because of the comedy i think because of the extremity of the oddness I think because of the underlying sense of horror in the banal.

24:19Andy Greenwald:Like it just, and in just in terms of a absolutely unwavering aesthetic vision that Tim Robinson has with Zach Kanin, Aaron Trimberg, who's directed a bunch of the episodes clearly in on it as well. Like the degree to which they, like in the scene in this finale, when everyone at the, not the chair company, at Ron's company, they're sitting around the table talking about what to do about Ron. It's so fucking funny, dude. and Lou Diamond Phillips is just getting more and more pressed. It could have really hurt him. It's eight absolutely weird randos who are not necessarily, quote unquote, and I say this with love and respect, traditionally good actors, but they're not bad.

24:59Andy Greenwald:And then there's also Jim Downey from Jeff Epstein with the Island fame, by the way. Fun documentary on Jim Downey on Peacock right now that I watched. That would have been better if you had done a fun documentary about Jeffrey Epstein that I just watched. you know but i heard joe wright has a has an epstein series coming on movie and you don't really know which side of the island he's landing on um and lou diamond phillips and it's just just watching aesthetically what they have done with this casting with this tone with this rhythm is there's such commitment to the bit and like i would i would love to talk to those guys for example but i don't know if you noticed they did no press they went on seth myers together but Otherwise they're like, look, this is what we, this is what we do.

25:42Andy Greenwald:It's like, it's like underdogs winning an NBA game and just pounding their chest and leaving the court. Like we really do this. Yeah. Um, I, I don't know. I, I just definitely, I loved every second of it. I was glad it got the early renewal because there was no resolution whatsoever. Uh, there is very weird. It's like, I don't even know. Are we, are we still talking about the chairs? now we're talking about a telekinetic woman in his office and her boyfriend who wears a baby mask uh-huh at their old high school yeah yeah and it's revenge for something ron like some basically like unremarkable thing that ron did when they were in high school where he spit a gummy bear up into the air and it landed in her cleavage and and mike uh is a troubled if sympathetic man dude the mic thing killed me the mic trying to get with the daughter like the girl who has his heart or is it the heart he has the heart of a man who died and he showed up at the girl's wedding so that her father's heart could hug her and he hit on the mother and then he hit on her and he was like the heart doesn't count i i love it i love the commitment to the bit so much and i just think that like we're on a different kind of ride i think and i don't think i don't know if anyone who's not watched the show is listening to us rave about it but i'll say if there's even a percentage of you who are like it'll be like when detroiters hits netflix we'll just catch up with it and it's a funny hang or even i think you should leave it's just a collection of really good jokes or or even friendship which i loved um which is an extended bit they're doing something that is so completely different.

27:28Andy Greenwald:They are not trying to stretch those bits into a show to see if it works. They're making a show that they are fully committed to. I wonder whether the second season... So another show that I think might show up in some people's 10 best lists, I don't know if anybody on this podcast, but the rehearsal season two, which had this central premise was still the same, but was about a completely different thing. I wonder if that's where this show goes. Will Ron just get into something else? Or are we going to stay in this kind of world of anonymous, benign office drones and Ron kind of getting obsessed with something for five minutes?

28:15How much of what's in the first season, like the dog, the carvery, how much is transporting over to the second season?

28:22Andy Greenwald:What about Asher with the face mask? is seth gonna get into risdy it's expensive it's expensive when is wendy's gonna introduce its carvery concept for ham like there are a lot of pressing questions but like i don't think it's hyperbole to say that the hbo that we love that will soon be relocating to riyadh is historically been at its best when it's been in the business of hey we are finding you at the right time when you are ready to grow with us. And whether it was like, you know, a David Simon on the drama side or a Danny McBride. A Brian Ben-Ben on the comedy side. Yeah. You might want to call a couple of those plays back, but I'm just saying like, we're investing in you and you go and run with it.

29:07Andy Greenwald:This is one of those. It really is. I love the show. This episode is brought to you by the Active Cash Credit Card from Wells Fargo. That's a mouthful, but that's because it packs a lot in. Earn unlimited 2 % cash rewards on purchases with it, big or small. So whether it's buying tickets to the game or grabbing a coffee, it earns unlimited 2 % cash rewards on purchases. Say it with me. The Active Cash credit card from Wells Fargo. Be a 2 %er. Learn more at wellsfargo.com forward slash active cash. Terms apply. This summer, FanDuel is the best place to bet on goals. Including equalizers, volors, headers.

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30:13Well, Boris Head just did that. Bursting with flavor, perfectly seasoned with that indulgent taste that usually means planning your whole day around it. Presenting the Friar's Turkey Breast only from Boar's Head. Backyard tradition now available behind the counter. Visit your local deli today. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite. Boar's Head, committed to craft since 1905. Are you looking for support in your weight management journey? ZepBound Terzepatide may be able to help. ZepBound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with obesity or some adults with overweight who also have weight-related medical problems to lose excess body weight and keep the weight off.

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31:34Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. if you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills. Taking ZepBound with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-5979 or visit zepbounds.lily.com. Okay, let's talk about a show that I'm fairly confident will be on both of our 10 best lists at this point, Pluribus, which we haven't really had a chance to discuss in...

32:14I think we missed the previous episode. So the last time that we talked about it, was it Carol Please? Was that what that episode was called?

32:21Andy Greenwald:That's right. We didn't talk about the fact that the voicemail box is Patrick Fabian, who played Howard on Better Call Saul. And it was a nice little Easter egg for fans, as well as for Ray Sehorne. The other Easter egg that I didn't know from that episode was that the woman who says, may we save her life about Xosha at the end of the episode apparently is the real life emt who saved bob odenkirk's life on the set better call saul yeah oh that's so funny i just watched maron do a video about like not do a video but he was clipped when he was on a talk show talking about like talking to odenkirk right after his heart attack odenkirk sending joke texting jokes in the hospital yeah um let's talk broadly about where this show's at and then we can get into the specifics of this episode that just aired um and also like the previous one, which are kind of tied together because it's Carol's discovery.

33:12Andy Greenwald:First of all, I love the show. I am completely dialed in. I think these past two weeks have been among the best episodes of the season so far. And in fact, it really hasn't been a dip. What I particularly loved, and we can sort of zero in on this before we get into any bigger details, but I love the way when you're watching a show made by one of the masters of the form in Vince Gilligan, but also just a master of tempo and expectation that the end of the previous episode, which is really like a hard cut from a gasp of horror or fear or discovery, there is the anticipation, right? And you were texting me about this, that, oh, next week is quote unquote, the big one, that the way that we engage with these prestige shows with limited season lengths, eight to 10 episodes is that inevitably there will be quote unquote, the one that explains things or flashes back or, or, or turns everything on its head.

34:10Andy Greenwald:And it was all set up to be that. And what I loved about this episode, this week's episode is that it gave us that it was a legitimately horrifying discovery. Um, you completely understood Carol's reaction in the immediate term. And then also in the longer term, I'm just immediately driving with this information to Mr. Diabate and in, the casino. And then it does what this show does, which is subvert our expectations, which is turn down the temperature, which is to cause us to consider things from a perspective we haven't, knowing that we are A, students of prestige television and how it works, but also B, students of dystopia, right?

34:51Andy Greenwald:That there has to be a horrific twist in order for her quest to feel heroic or in order for us to have something to root for. And it wasn't. It was John Cena being like, look, we know it's a little bit gross, but we don't have any other, we don't have any better ideas. I thought everything that we eat people, we should just say. Sure. Yeah. I mean, I think everything that happens in six is like one of the more perfect executions of a fake cliffhanger that I've ever seen. So often what will happen, especially in the era of binge streaming, when you have, you want people to stay engaged with the season is that you throw something in there.

35:26and this has been the same as it ever was since we've started potting, that you throw something in there in the last 10 minutes of an episode so that people click next episode on their streaming service. And Pluribus is not too good for that behavior. They put things at the end of episodes that are certainly like, I cannot wait till next week. At the end of five, Carol discovers this giant locker, this giant freezer in an agricultural goods facility and she looks underneath a tarp and we are left to wonder for a full week what could possibly be under that tarp? Is it an alien carcass? Is it Helen?

36:03Andy Greenwald:Is it all of her books? What is it? Where were you with it? I think the most obvious... I think I was like, is it aliens? I really was like, is there a being that is running this kind of thing? That's just where my sci-fi brain took me. Or like not to step on... Well, there was another show that we liked a lot this year, sci-fi that might end up on our list in which there is a discovery that the people we see might be replicants basically that like maybe everyone is on ice and that the others are recreations of them something along those lines the fact that the next episode the sixth episode picks up right afterwards so we're not gonna pretend like we're not gonna do a flashback we're not gonna do somewhere else in the world like it's really carol bursting out of this uh the door of this freezer and then going right back in to film it and then this whole um mid-season gambit they've adopted of carol as a vlogger i think is ingenious because it's obviously like learned behavior from youtube without explicit explicitly referencing youtube and the internet but we get to kind of come to grips with it and the funny thing was is that when she did the reveal and as like she i was like i wonder what this is going to be because i can't really think of what i would myself be scandalized by at this point in carol's journey and she reveals that it's human body parts and i noted the uh care and cleanliness with which they are restoring these people and and their remains and i think what the show is asking and what the show is sort of somewhat about is that one person's dystopia is another person's utopia.

37:44Especially this past episode with Diabate reenacting Casino Royale in the Westgate and living in a harem of women and really obviously having the time of his life, whereas Carol is at this kind of end of a rope state of loneliness and despair and alienation. And what Carol thinks is this gotcha moment is in fact like this guy's like yeah i i find it troubling but they they do have a pretty good explanation for it you know and the the show is kind of about how what i think what we used to think of as these sort of like universally agreed upon occurrences like what would happen if there was an alien invasion what would happen if you know there was an outbreak of a virus in this world and we all had to deal with it what happened in the last couple of years is i think we've shattered this idea of a collective response.

38:42We've shattered this idea of a collective experience. And this show is very slyly showing us how that happens, even without the distortion of social media and the internet. It's like, well, I don't know. I'm actually enjoying myself in this experience. So it's not my obsession to reverse this.

39:01Andy Greenwald:I think that's really brilliantly observed. I feel like one of the great, um, communal fictions of like post-World War II culture has been like, we are just one crisis away from a rallying cry. Like we could do this again. We can roll up our sleeves and make Rosie the Riveter posters and defeat evil again. And it's like, yeah, if we had to make jeans in this country, we could do it. No problem. Independence day would happen if given the right, uh, spark, I guess in that case, the destruction of the major cities and Bill Pullman elected president, we could take care of this stuff. I could get behind that.

39:36Andy Greenwald:One of the many things that the last few years have proven to us is that none of these, these are all complete fictions that like we are always going to be ourselves and our worst selves. And maybe sometimes we stumble towards some shared moment of enlightenment, but increasingly that's harder and harder to come by. We all know people or maybe even parts of ourselves that didn't mind aspects of the pandemic. Like there are parts of that, that, that ring true that are so well represented in the show. I think the other thing that is so compelling about this past episode in particular was that Diabate isn't just, he's not written as a, um, hedonistic Lothario who is taking advantage, who is only taking advantage of a situation because let's be clear.

40:21Andy Greenwald:He is a hundred percent taking advantage of a situation, but the, the underlying text of it that we see when she spends more time with him is that he does seem to understand the rules of the game he's chosen to play. Like he talks to them. He also has sex with many of them, but he also listens to their point of view and treats them as a collective, um, which is relatively advanced, I would say, you know, much more so than a hastily written version of that character ever would be. A couple other points I wanted to make about these last two episodes, specifically six, is the old Aristotle chestnut actionist character.

41:03And the idea, you know, obviously Gilligan has always been obsessed with process, has been delighted in showing the minute movements of a character as they put post-its on a wall or make meth or whatever it is that they're doing. But I don't know that I've ever seen him tie character to behavior in a more successful way than he is with Carol. Because we have to talk about this seahorn performance. I was talking with Kai before we started the show. He was like, I cannot believe how much of this show is just her. On her, yeah. Yeah, and is on her. And I'm starting to be mesmerized by the littlest things that this person is doing on screen.

41:45You know, how she exits her house, how she packs, how she waits for that phone message to be over. The look in her eyes when she finds out that the other survivors have been meeting on Zoom without her. Her reaction when the Westgate billboard flashes that they understand and hear her and they won't be doing stem cell research on her without consent. you don't need any flashbacks with carol because you kind of understand everything about her from her movements and her actions and from like the little just you know it's been interesting to go along this journey with her about her substance abuse issues and like her invoking heroin when she drinks how she drinks like what happens to her when she drinks but everything that they're doing with her is such a master class in in in writing in that way i think and in performing i

42:41Andy Greenwald:It's beautifully said. I think that like the point you make about the voice message, like one of the luxuries that being Vince fucking Gilligan buys you is that you see her calling again and you're like, well, they're not going to play the message again. Right. Yeah. But he's like, no, we're not going to cut away from it. And one of the reasons he, you don't cut away from it is because he can tell Apple what he wants to do with the show. But the other reason you don't cut away from it is because of the actor you have reacting to it. And one thing that I am glad, I'm glad I have an opportunity to circle back to that we didn't mention two weeks ago, is that when she does the, when Carol tests the sodium pentothal on herself, it is a masterclass in comedic acting that we have not seen her do, I think, since Ray Sehorne's glory days on the sitcom Whitney, which is when I first became aware of her talents.

43:32Andy Greenwald:She's super fucking funny. And again, it's just, she has a camera on herself, but we just have a camera on her.

43:42Andy Greenwald:What do you, where are you, tell me about your feelings about Paraguay and that journey because now these stories are clearly headed towards an intersection. Well, so that's a really good example of the A-B test of it's okay when Ray C. Horn does it but when another performer, it's not even about the performer. Let me rephrase what I'm saying although I don't cut this but I just mean you sit there watching him go through these dials And there is a little bit more of like an urgency of like, yes, but you will hit something that you can't explain or that will be like a radio signal, even though we don't understand what that radio signal is going to be.

44:16I felt fine about it. What I'm really marveling at is did they shoot in Paraguay? Is this Albuquerque? But, you know, with tile, like, are they shooting on plates? Like how do what are they doing? Like, where are they shooting the show? And I want to get to that in a second. But the final moments of episode six. and this guy I think that's his mother has been bringing him the food the entire time but maybe he couldn't quite see that it was her or maybe he didn't know that it was her but his mother comes out of the shadows in Paraguay and tries to stop him before he drives off in his car that I do not think is going to make it to New Mexico

44:56Andy Greenwald:it seems unlikely although he does have some maps she's just like what can we do for you just tell us can we answer any questions Yes. And his reaction is, you're not my mother. My mother was a bitch. And that, first of all, like on a character spectrum, locates him right next to Carol. These are two very hurt people. and the skepticism that he has about this project that he's seeing, this idea of a collective, peaceful, harmonious society of people who are operating under one consciousness, even if they can represent themselves as loved ones or whoever, Carol doesn't have the benefit of having Helen showing up at her door.

45:44Who knows what her reaction would be if Helen was there. but this is the example of like maybe be careful what you wish for because he's just like my mother was meaner you know like this isn't the same it's wrong this is yeah this is wrong and i thought that those closing minutes were just sublime you know and also let's just say this show looks fucking exquisite uh like they obviously have been getting so dialed over the last 15 years with how they want to shoot things in the Gilligan world and how they're going to look. And he's got in-house directors and talent that he recruits to do these things with him.

46:20But this show uses its budget in such a wise way where the sets that they build or the locations that they choose to film in, they let their actors fully explore. And so they feel huge. Like maybe they got to shoot at Westgate, I don't know, or a different casino or however they did that. but it felt like they could have gone into one of a hundred rooms in that casino that I felt like we could have followed that guy all over, uh, whatever city he's in in Paraguay. And it's just like, it's such an incredible use of like money for the point of creativity rather than just like, well, we'll, we'll just make some huge set piece soon.

47:00Andy Greenwald:I also just continue to be in awe. And I think we're going to talk about this in the year end episode as well, inevitably, but like what he's choosing to show us and the vessel that he's chosen, to deliver his thoughts and observations and story within. You mentioned the Leftovers. We were joking about the Leftovers at the top of the show and how, as Damon Lindelof says it, and he said it to us, the change between season one, which has its fans, shout out Mina Kimes, like people love season one. But Damon says that the difference to him between season one and season two is that he remembered that people sometimes laugh at funerals.

47:36Andy Greenwald:Sure. And that there is a different way to react to even extreme situations that can be both surprising, but also ring emotionally true in our human experience. And so much of the more expensive television of the last few years and decades has been about, well, what would be the most human way to react when your family is burned alive by a dragon or whatever the case may be? And it's generally because of the necessities of plot or the limits of some creative imaginations. I'm not trying to do a drive-by. I just mean, it's hard to make this shit. It's often the most expected reactions, often done exquisitely.

48:15Andy Greenwald:And what I love about this scenario is what you were saying. It keeps surprising us. Like, what if there are the people who are the wrong people to be the heroes of a story? What if this is a story that doesn't require heroes? What if, and I'm thinking back to Jeff Hiller, Emmy award winner, Jeff Hiller's cameo a couple of weeks, two weeks ago, when he's saying what Helen thought about her books, or he's saying what he thinks, what they think about all books or all art, or is Carol as good a writer as Shakespeare? And I'm like, yeah, this is the internet. Yeah. The internet is hateful and mean and et cetera, but it is also responsible for this, I think, pretty toxic flattening of criticism and understanding and appreciation of art.

49:00Andy Greenwald:And we're saying this during like wrapped week when everybody's being told like, good job. You listen to the same thing as everybody else. It's like, that's also part of our culture. And it's, it, it's easy to pillory something for all the more obvious negative characteristics of it. But I love that the show is also willing to look at the potentially positive things and look at them a little bit sideways and to continue to be like, maybe as you said, as you said a moment ago, like maybe the end of the world, isn't the worst thing for some people. okay then what what do we do then i thought that the um the diabade scenes uh were excellent uses excellent executions of what in a sloppier set of hands might be exposition dumps he's privy to information that she's not it's obvious that he's getting this information because he's simply more adept at talking to the others or the them uh the they and uh so it didn't feel like somehow he was like a scientist all of a sudden he was just like yeah i just asked you know they're not happy about this information but it is the case um carol's relief that she would retain bodily autonomy was interesting to me there's an element of physicality there's performance i'm very curious about i mean i i'm watching this show uh so delighted i'm not getting ahead of myself to try and figure out like where it's going or what it's doing it feels very organic like it does feel like we're obviously on the path to these two characters meeting uh at some point these two people who are are are the only two who are against what's happening in the world but i like how moral and philosophical it is um and the idea that we can't do anything unless you give us their permission?

50:46You give us your permission.

50:47Andy Greenwald:I really like how anti-Reddit it is. Now, I personally am not anti-Reddit. I'm learning a lot about London food and also trains when I log on these days. So that's great for me. Oh, you mean like anti-fan theory? Yes. What I mean is the questions here are very simple and the answers are also so far relatively simple. Not saying that a great joining of human consciousness is not complicated, what I mean is oh my god they're eating people well yes here's why what else could they do and then we move on from there we're eating people because we can't harm anything yes and and and try and find fault with that and I just think that it is such a rare let's talk about this more in your end and you're if you if you believe this already about us you're right that like sometimes we are rooting for and getting maybe overly excited about things that speak to a larger trend or anti-trend in an industry that we care about and that we cover.

51:45Andy Greenwald:But this show feels organically built from questions about character, about emotion, and about humanity, and about our moment. And I am going to do a drive-by now. It is not a fair one. And I don't, Kai, don't clip this the wrong way. But compare the elegance of this show so far to Severance, which is another Apple show that has its partisans, that is complicated, that is asking big questions, that is beautifully shot. It's using an element of science fiction as metaphor for contemporary dislocation. And all I mean is just think about the development process and what it's become. I'm not even going to argue the collective use feelings about Pluribus season one versus Severin season two because they have their merits.

52:32Andy Greenwald:And I'm not even interested in a one-to-one A-B comparison here. What I mean is Severance was a brilliant spec script that was retrofitted into a three, four, five season spanning Odyssey driven by an aesthetic madman in Ben Stiller. And there's a lot of labor. And we've talked about in episodes that we've liked and didn't like about the actual storytelling labor to get to a place where Mark and Heli running mean something, both in terms of the season and in terms of the series going forward. And look, no one can walk into the streamers and be like, I want to do this and get it greenlit like Vince Gilligan can at this point.

53:14Andy Greenwald:But I got to respect how elegant it is because of how he did this. He's had a long-term partner with Sony, right? He has decades of experience across multiple eras of television at this point. He tells stories and now is partially, I think, if not fully responsible for the visual as well as the written side of what we're seeing on screen. And I think has the right instincts in that he bet big on Ray Sehorne that she could be what Bob Odenkirk was in the early seasons of Better Call Saul. Bob Odenkirk has talked about it. He's like, I had no days off. I shot every day. I was in every scene of Better Call Saul except for the episode I directed.

54:08And Ray Sehorne is essentially doing that here. She is creating a probably pretty indelible television character right in front of our eyes. It's really cool. It's really cool that I think that you can go through a year of television and we'll talk about this, but Like you can have things that are good for what they are or nice executions of previously experienced material. And, oh, they did a nice little twist on that. Or I didn't, this was way better than it had any business being. This is, this is different. This makes me feel like there's still a lot we can do with this medium.

54:45Andy Greenwald:I think you said it brilliantly. That said, Landman 203. No, we don't, we can, we can circle back next week. I actually did have. I just want to, did you like Andy Garcia's finally getting to? Yeah. Also, I really, you know what I really respected? They made him Cuban. They let him be Cuban, which is, which is true to Andy Garcia's life. And I think that was nice in heritage. I have, I do have a nice thing to say that maybe is a segue to what you were saying, which is that when the show does things that are maybe to a, you know, 4D chess player, like Taylor shared and kind of obvious and basic, like have many of your cast members share a scene together and a balance screen at the same time.

55:27Yeah, for sure.

55:28Andy Greenwald:I'm like, there's a reason why TV shows do that. It works. It's charming. It's interesting. It's moving things forward. But second, the other thing that I have to say, and I mean this with no snark, when the show commits itself to showing us the process and peril of work in a field that I have absolutely no knowledge of. Chemical spill is gripping. it was the pit-esque. This show is not as good as the pit, but in the sense of here are people who are trained to do something, reacting to something that, hope to God, I never, ever, ever encounter. I found that incredibly compelling and gripping. And you can't have a chemical spill every week, although I can't ever tell him what to do.

56:09Andy Greenwald:It did remind me that there's still just like, there's stuff here that is of interest. You just have to wade through so much shit to get to it half the time. I agree with you that there is a procedural show about just Tommy fixing stuff every week that I would still watch. It doesn't even need all of the family soap operatics, Cooper inheriting things, whatever trip the Michelle Randolph character is on. I would just be there for the Tommy fixes a well this week somehow. Great. With Boss. I like Boss. The extra stuff is the extra stuff. And sometimes it hits and sometimes it misses. You famously are much more liquid than I am.

56:51Andy Greenwald:So maybe you can answer this better than I can. But like, if you are over leveraged, like Monty was, on a scale of like one to 10, in terms of just like fiduciary savvy, how smart is it to walk into a public place, break a beer bottle over the head of your financial advisor and say, where's my money? It's all gone. Well, Tom, it's not Tommy's money. It's Cammie's money. You know, like he's like... I know, but I'm like, That's just how they do in the Serengeti, brother. That's how they solve problems. For me, if I'm Monty, I just start to lose track of the shell corpse. Do you think that's what David Ellison is doing in Riyadh right now?

57:30Is he in Riyadh?

57:31Andy Greenwald:At the Cattlemen's Club? I just, he's shaking down Saudi wealth. I don't know. Where's my money? It was great to see you. I gotta find out what happens in season two of The Chair Company. I'll let you go, let you dry off. Thanks to Kai for recording us today. We'll put this up on Friday, and then we'll be back on Monday to discuss, I'm sure, more Landman, whatever Thames boat shows. Yeah, Thames Talk. Thanks to everybody for listening. We'll talk to you soon.