‘Pluribus’ Penultimate Episode and ‘Landman’ Episode 5

0:05I need support staff to clear the room. Stand up and walk now.

0:37as one hand. You didn't say a master and commander themed dinner. That would be amazing. All the fellows show up for a master and commander themed dinner. Greenwall, great to see you today on the show. Pluribus episode 8. Landman, I think it's episode 6, but it was Sunday's episode called Pirate Dinner. We will get into some news at the top. Some programming reminders. Today, obviously, our show. Then Monday we're going to do a special year-end mailbag, which I'm very excited about. Then later next week, we will be releasing an episode timed to the pluribus finale that's some special guests so we're very excited about that and that will be some uh x-mas listening for folks what's cool is we didn't get access to any of the creative team but anybody can be another from that show that's right so we just grab some folks from the lobby um and then we're gonna be off uh for that week in between kind of the after christmas before or after new years and we'll be back on like the second or fourth i believe it is how are you feeling about you know we released our top 10 our year-end episode into the wild how are you feeling about how it's been received do you feel like do you feel like you've been heard do you feel like so i don't know if you did probably didn't have a chance to tune into the sure thing rewatchables which went live last night in honor of rob reiner bill opened the show by discussing watching us in bed while his wife played a video game on her phone i'm gonna unpack that we were in bed no he was watching the watch on his big screen television oh in bed and thought that we had too much opening banter but had really like some good ideas but that's been the note for the last 13 or 14 years he was like you guys i needed to get to honorable mentions faster that's baked in at this point i know i don't mean look do we have to re-record no uh i enjoyed our best the year i think it was warmly received i want to know how you feel about this because I don't know how many more ways we can explain that Sam Esmail is our friend and no longer wants to appear on these podcasts and that those things are both true yes but maybe it's better to print the legend because we I read texts from Sam at the beginning of the podcast oh like I think we should just put his face up there with a Ghostbuster like slash through it because there's still comments like on our stuff being like you are hiding from Sam or you fired him because he disagreed with you I need you to accept the fact that a lot of the people who comment about work that we do, do not actually engage with the work.

3:05That's humbling to think about. That's work. You don't, wait. It's sort of like your relationship to television. And sports. And sports. And the entire NBA season. Yeah. I'm not sure if it's been played or not. They're game casting our pod. You know, they just want to see the results. They don't really care about the process. So they're looking at next-gen stats, and they're seeing that we've vamped. Like, we're doing right now for, like, 20 minutes before we get into the content. The reason why I'm vamping with you right now, the reason why, first of all, it's Funky Thursdays. It's Fun Thursdays.

3:38We still don't have the right name for that, but yeah. Casual Thursdays? Chaos Menu? I don't know what to call it. The reason why I'm doing it is because we're not going to have the luxury of doing this in January. Because January, weirdly, strangely, is going to be among the busier months of our podcasting careers. So rough. Now, look, how we cover this is yet to be determined, but I just mean in terms of sheer volume of shows that we are really interested in and could be interested in. Okay. I don't think I've ever seen a January like it, and I don't understand it. I don't, usually, like, you get, like, a rush of shows kind of in the spring to get under the Emmy wire, right?

4:18Like, we've had, like, crazy April, Mays, but I don't remember coming out of a holiday season into January. And here's just a list of some of the shows that are premiering in January. Like within the first two weeks, right? And we're going to talk about some of these in detail. The Pit. Season two. Season two. Industry season four. Yeah. His and Hers on Netflix, which is a John Bernthal, Tessa Thompson thriller. Crazy. Riot Women, which is the new show from Sally Wainwright, an incredible British writer who did Happy Valley. Gangs of London season three. Okay. So, it's ebbing a little bit. I'll give you a download on what happened on the first two seasons.

4:57Thanks. Ponies, which is a new show on Peacock that I was kind of intrigued by. It looks good. Yeah, which is like a spy comedy. It's a period spy comedy with Hayley Lou Richardson and Emilia Clarke. Yeah. And Ponies stands for Persons of No Interest. Yes. And I'm not one of them. I'm interested. I'm interested. I'm anti-pony for ponies. Night of the Seven Kingdoms. God damn it. What? Shrinking is back which we have not engaged with in the past but is a notable big Apple release to just be like let's slide this in there I just feel like I spend most of my life either in therapy or in Pasadena and I don't need a show about both of those things honestly that's probably the most that's the best possible answer you could possibly give for why we don't engage with Shrinking I'm trying to be honest about things you know like when the rehearsal came up on Monday and I was like I can't get over the fact that someone took a picture of me thinking I was him that's why I don't watch it simpler, simpler, simpler just be honest Yeah, it's cringe and all that, but like, really?

5:53And then finally, season two, 10 years after season one of The Night Manager, which is Tom Hiddleston and Olivia Colman in an extended Le Carre universe piece about... Your vigil paid off. That candle has been flickering on your mantle for 10 years. I now think we are no longer allowed to make fun of Severance for taking too long. Oh. We kind of checkmated ourselves there. because we're excited about this? Yes. Well, it was a long night to manage. What of that group of shows do you think you're most excited to have back? Well, I mean, the fact that Industry and The Pit, which are two of our favorite shows, full stop, are coming back within a week of each other is diabolical.

6:40That's incredibly exciting. Yeah. And both weekly releases. And both weekly releases, which is good. The Pit season two full trailer was released. Yeah. I would say my main observation is it has like more swagger than the first season trailer than the first like the way that the show was presented which I think I can't even really remember but I do remember it being like oh it's just kind of weird is this kind of betwixt in between HBO show and a Mac show and is it going to be just like a heart like a straight procedural or what wasn't prepared for the you know the emotions it would stir and also just the excitement it would stir this one has a little bit of like they did the gritty in the end zone.

7:20You know what I mean? The coach didn't like that. Coach O 'Connell was not happy about that. Yeah, he didn't. Do you think that you would swagger a little bit if you had an undisputed touchdown? Would you have the presence in mind? I would be like Dan Lanning. I would want all my guys to party and celebrate. Oh, so I would run through the back of the end zone. I'd run through the tape. You know what I mean? Then you just hand the ball to the ref. No showboating. That's classic white wide receiver shit right there. that's some real McCaffrey shit yeah just like here you go sir thank you for the opportunity it's expected that I score it's what I'm paid to do it's what my father told me every night before I fell asleep yeah yeah I mean well the pit season one had to sell audiences on a lot including just like a vibe like do you guys remember a show that litigiously we're not legally we're not going to mention right maybe we could give you some more of that and the fun of returning for a second season with the kind of success that it's had is remember these six people that you love, they're back.

8:16Right. And you get to look at them more. And that's a winning strategy for a TV show. Speaking of like the severance delay or the night manager delay, like not just that we got the season two trailer, not just that we got the season two trailer two weeks, two and a half weeks before it returns. There was something in my brain that was like, are they giving away too much? Do they actually have all of this filmed? It's like I'm not used to such a full plate. Yeah. I thought they would just give a little like beep, beep, beep Robbie's face. That was the teaser that they did like like a couple weeks ago and everything.

8:45But now they're like, oh no, they shot this. Yeah. There's no mystery here. It's done. Yeah. They're not like burning the midnight oil over at the studio. Yeah, I mean, it's kind of fascinating. This show, I think, will be one of the most anticipated releases of the year, I would imagine, both critically and sort of like on that TV addict way. But also, I think, on a general, like, I watch four shows a year level. This is one of them. And, you know, this returning cast, we see a little bit of Langdon, we see Mel, we see all of our faves. I wonder, you know, how much turnover there will be on this cast?

9:18Because they're going to obviously push the limits in terms of story about what Dana and Robbie and these people can take. You've got people fan casting the Pitt night shift, you know, like the Hadassi version. Yeah, which I think people want. And the biggest tragedy for me is that Dr. Collins still has her phone on Do Not Disturb. I know. I mean, she must be living a blissful life. Can I ask you something about putting your phone on do not disturb because i do it and calls just blast through um i don't really get it maybe kaya can help us on this like i know lots of people who have their phone on do not disturb and and still have like a full texting life what is the upside well you can program it so some people can break through right let's let's talk to our youth correspondent so the trick with do not disturb is that if you call twice in a row it breaks through all right is that real indeed Oh my God.

10:09Okay. Well, who breaks through? Your kids? No, it's set to, they can always reach me. What about me? My kids can always reach me. One fun thing that my, my parents' relationship with telephones and all technology is still pretty Jurassic. So they do call multiple times and sometimes forget that they've just called or they're not aware that it's, so one call from them normally involves three distinct ringing episodes. so that's probably why I can't, uh, in the spirit of the holidays, block them out completely. Right. I see. Okay. Yeah. Well, I'm always, cause you know, it got in my head a little bit that there was a time when you would awake to a number of spirited messages from me, alerting you to the events or trailers that dropped between one and 6am.

11:01But now I'm a little bit, you know, I don't know your waking schedule, but I also don't want to, cause you don't put it on do not disturb. I don't I often will leave it outside of my room because now I kind of mechanically wake up at the same time every day so I don't need an alarm but I do get disoriented if I don't see what time it is I you know I don't want to I don't want to rush you yeah you used to send me a lot of shit in the morning just like well let's look at the trades and I'm like okay I haven't had coffee yet and also you pay Richard Rushfeld to do that Matt Bellany to give you the updates I do I thought that I was providing a bespoke service I wish okay um yeah but anyway like what else you got from this like what are your what's your power listing what's your power rankings of interest level you know i'm looking i'm i'm excited for this mixture of returning and new uh so ponies and uh his and hers and riot women i'm very curious about uh this is a bernthal television show yeah this is made for you maybe uh well they all are all those bernthal shows are uh did you see did i send you the video i've talked about this before of bernthal there's a clip going around because it's from an old podcast that you do with Shia where Shia is like, I want to work at Home Depot.

12:11And Bernthal is just like, you think you can work in Home Depot. Do you really think you can do that? Do you go to Home Depot? And Shia's like, that's my church, bro. That's where I go. That's I have mad projects. Whoa. It's so funny. That is, first of all, that is a similar tone to what you take with me. You think you can work in Home Depot. That's something that you think you can do. One of my favorite things about this is Jon Bernthal, like us, went to a Quaker school. I think he saw a different side of Quakerism, though. The rough and tumble side? Well, I just don't know how. He's just too authentic.

12:46I'm not saying he's phony. It wouldn't work for him to play these parts. That said, he is a suburban Jew who went to a Quaker school. It'd be awesome to have a podcast with Jon Bernthal called Another Side of Quakerism. And it's all about... the shit we got into while we were in Quaker school sometimes that light within can burn disrupting meeting for worship were you a big stand up and meeting for worship guy? I don't think I ever did it I don't think I ever did it I mean I also was of a generation that I don't think really prioritized meeting for worship like in the way that it should be like it would often be this is a cool free period if we can get out of meeting early like you know what I mean like once meeting ends there's like a little bit of playtime.

13:31So when people would stand up and start talking about their dead turtle, we would be like, fuck. Yeah, I mean, so for people who don't know, the hallmark of a Quaker education is once a week you have a meeting for worship where you sit in quiet reflection in the traditions of the Quaker religious ceremony. And then if you feel moved to speak, you could speak. But in retrospect, like when you're little, like kids would stand up and be like, meeting is a time to think about God because they thought you were supposed to say that. Yeah. That's like the kindergarten move. But then - Did you do that in kindergarten?

13:55I didn't. Okay. No. but because I was like in kindergarten I was like what if Rancho Man Randy Savage fought Optimus Prime in a neutral site that's what I'm thinking about I'm just wondering if your school because we didn't know each other then we went to rival Quaker schools it's kind of like our version of Quakerism and John Bernthal's version of Quakerism you went to a place in the suburbs why you gotta say it like that I'm just saying that's where it was located okay it physically was located in the suburbs I was on the parkway you were you were right in the shit right by love park you know me and harmony green talking about transformers talking about gummo but did it get like i just feel like the rules were bent a little bit because i remember in middle school when like earth day became a thing yeah we would have like themed meetings where someone would be like we're gonna begin meeting for worship with a song about how the environment belongs to all of us and they play like an ed brickell song and we'd all sit in silence be like what the fuck are we listening to and then i guess think about the whales for 40 minutes.

14:55And that feels a little directional. You know what I mean? Like, what if I didn't want to think about that? Oh, you like to have an action. You like to have like... No, I didn't. Oh, you don't. You want to have it just be like, I'm thinking about Randall Cunningham right now. Yes. Or, you know, will the city ever appreciate Scott Rowland? Or whatever was relevant at that era. I, yeah. I mean, I kind of miss it though. It was kind of nice. Yeah. There's a period every week where you did nothing. It's like therapy, but you don't have to talk. Wow. So you'd fit right in with Shia at Home Depot. Yeah, I think I'm very excited.

15:26I was curious what your temp check on Night of the Seven Kingdoms is. I mean, you haven't dipped into these screeners, right? I don't even know if we're even allowed to mention that we have them. Yes. I'll mention it. Okay. I don't care anymore. Yeah. Clip this, Kaya. I don't care. I got screeners, but I haven't watched them yet. Too busy. It's fine. Got nothing to hide. well I guess I'm open minded about it because the entire pitch of the show as we understand it as non book readers and non house of our we don't live in the house of our we're fans is that this is I summer there do you? yeah the summer you turn pretty that this is this is not the same tone it's a series of novellas that he wrote that I think are a little bit less high stakes is my understanding but also quite good and some of the best work he's done writing wise.

16:20This is George R. R. Martin. Yes. And that these episodes, I believe, are only a half an hour long. Why? Don't quote you on that. I didn't know that. I'm fairly certain that they're like, it's like six 30 minute episodes. It's almost a little bit more British style. Sounds great. I think. Okay. I could be wrong. I'm very much looking forward to it. That sounds nice. This is a series that actually didn't get strip mind in the great streaming wars of the early part of this decade where people were taking Star Wars and Marvel and DC and just being like, we got to get as much stuff as possible up on the services.

16:56Like Game of Thrones, for whatever you think about the ending of Game of Thrones and whatever you think of House of the Dragon has been relatively modest. Modest. And I think that the HBO team has been good stewards of making sure that whatever goes up is going to honor what they've accomplished so far. Okay. Yeah, I'm eager to see that. I'm, did you, do you have any thoughts you'd like to share about the industry season four poster that was just released? I'm just, I'm just ready. Yeah, no, we're ready. We don't need trailers. We are on board, but I do really enjoy the real time retconning of what the show is.

17:29That's about Yasmin and Harper. Well, which is awesome. Yeah. And, but I, I am a fan of the fact that the show took a very nonlinear path to maybe uncovering what it quote, unquote, has always been. The central relationship, yeah. And also that your man and Kit Harington is just in the poster. Yeah. Because he's a pretty big draw when he's on an HBO show. We can get to Pluribus first. We could get to Landman first. Is there anything else? Did you want to talk Night Manager trailer? You wanted me to watch it? I thought it was quite good. I think that there are going to be many people. Some may be like, what a great excuse to revisit Night Manager, which I thought was an excellent series, if I remember correctly, from 2015.

18:06But that is a lifetime ago. It's hundreds of television shows ago. So it's multiple vacations. That must be nice. Wow. Want to list your top three? Croatia? Wow. 15. Portugal, 17. You were ahead of the crowds on that one. I did. I didn't get a golden passport there. You're not Sephardic. Is that a big thing over there? I believe Portuguese government was offering citizenship to Jews of Sephardic descent. due to their treatment during the Inquisition period. What that half was. Nah, you're shtetl like me. Come on. You're not like... Why are you turning into Mel Brooks all of a sudden? Because that's what happens to all of us, inevitably.

18:57I just don't remember what happened on The Night Manager. I know that Hugh Laurie's Dickie Roper is an arms dealer, and I don't remember his fate. I'm fairly certain he's not with us, but he's in the second season trailer of Night Manager. Here's my slant on this. Does it matter? Like 10 years ago, it was a completely different show and a completely different television ecosystem and moment. It was on a completely different network. Totally different global chessboard. The show was for AMC. Now it's an Amazon Prime series. And I just don't get the sense from the trailer, which looks beautiful.

19:31It's full of many delightful British actors who we've seen in many other delightful things. And the first season, even for those who didn't watch it, know that it was primarily a show about linens. and blousey suit jackets and hot temperatures. You still, you remember. Yeah, I remember how the way those shirts were fitting my guy Loki. Debeki. Looked great. Yeah. And our guy Debeki. She's amazing. I don't think it matters. I think that what Amazon bought here and resurrected here is this is a Marvel star looking cool in a action espionage show. And so let's go. So I don't think there's a big barrier to entry here.

20:08Hey, speaking of trailers, have you spent any time on your for you tab on twitter recently i i don't i don't frequent twitter anymore um you say that but you do send me tweets only on game day okay um there's like a thing going on right now where everybody is like oh my god the the doomsday trailer or whatever like all the avengers trailers because something's coming and it's all like either ai or it's like vague posting where they're like you're never gonna believe this and then it's like nobody can understand it they're putting out are they really putting out four trailers in the over the course of the next couple weeks with Avatar is that true?

20:43We don't know I mean I do think does Avatar need that much help? Well you're the guy that should I'm just I'm concerned trolling Avatar Did you see that Big Jim Cameron responded to you? He didn't respond to me he responded to a sentiment that I think some of his fans share he also okay you're a passive voice guy you are literally the face of the you're like the QAnon shaman being like, you know, there was a gathering of ideas. There was. He perhaps is the figurehead of that gathering. Sure. There certainly were more than just one guy at January 6th. Right. He just happened to be the one wearing the fucking animal pelts.

21:20And that's you on Pandora being like, this sucks, shut it down.

21:29First of all, everything needs all the help it can get. Sure. Other than the Zootopia franchise, apparently. And by the way, you're not ready for my takes on that. Have you seen it? Of course. Opening weekend. Two? Yes. Zootopia. I am not ready for your takes on that. It sucked. Okay. Sorry to all of China who's apparently boosting it with their collective wealth. Did you see that movie? I did. It made a billion dollars in like six days. I did. Anyway, Avengers thing is it does feel like it's all disinfo campaign because it's not just, I mean, you responsibly source your information from the For You tab on X whereas I just get fed a steady stream of slop on Facebook.

22:09And by the way, one thing that I don't think you're aware of, but definitely like your one uncle with the email account is aware of is how the slop is fed to us now on Facebook, which is not just like, you know, fake news. It's, I'm sure AI generated content that takes like a moment, which is just like, I don't know. what's an example of like um Taron Killam leaving Saturday Night Live and they were like it's like quote guys I'm done the room the room at Studio 8G was chilled by Taron Killam's announcement but they knew the show they loved would no longer be the same that's what it does for like the most banal really celebrity information oh because they're like make this of the most like sticky kind of story this as like some yeah and one of the things I'm getting is just like beat by beat breakdowns of completely invented trailers for a movie yes yes so i saw i watched one that was uh it was like multiple people from avengers but then also sigourney weavers ripley and a predator you wrote this like you're more interested now totally the disney team is coming together totally like what uh do you feel like Avengers Doomsday is a distressed asset right now?

23:34Um, I think it's in the Zootopia zone. I think it's - So it's gonna be big in China. I think it's gonna be big, but I think it's gonna be, I think they need to end this. And I think that they, I think that this is like steering into the skid where they're like, you know what, this, the whole Kang thing didn't work out. Let's actually put good money on top of bad money. Sure. Sure. end this, get back in people's faces with these characters and some of these other things. But honestly, I don't really know what's happening. You know what I mean? I don't really know what's happening. I assume they're going to be building towards secret wars.

24:10Yeah, I think the problem... But it's going to be weird if people are like, Rebecca Romaine? Is that what we did? No, that's what I mean. There's no story here. So these movies have to do so many things and potentially impossible things, but one of which is make a case for its own existence and story momentum because it's not really building on anything. Like even the most optimistic among us, like me, who... You are very optimistic. About this. I liked Thunderbolts and I liked Fantastic Four. You are kind of weird that way. I believe I'm in the minority. And so you see these set images and it's just like, oh man.

24:40I just love Reed Richards and Jay Kelly. That's just who I am. What's wrong with that? But it's just like Shang-Chi and Eben Moss Bacharach, that's one's a character, one's an actor, sorry. And Ben Grimm palling around in London. And I'm like, I see the vision. Sure. But I don't know if I see the... So maybe Avatar's helping them. I don't know. Yeah, no, that actually... That's a good zag. Do you like that take? Yeah. It's actually the Na 'vi are helping the Avengers. Let's do Pluribus first. Before Landman? Okay. We can do whichever one you want. All right. Let's do Pluribus first. I weirdly think I have more to say about Landman.

25:17Okay, me too. But I've also... I've also liked Pluribus, I think in the last couple of weeks, like... I certainly, obviously, I think it's one of the best shows of the year. I think the second half of this season has been remarkable. So to talk about this episode, episode eight. Eight.

25:38You have been, and I love the show as well. You have been much more patient, I would say, and dialed in to the particular rhythms of this show. Yeah. Maybe even more so than I, and I'm a big advocate of Jay Kelly and other slow food entertainments. Yeah. so this episode which really as it often does like with a fine filigree articulates carol's changing relationship with the situation with the collective with the others with social specifically what was it about this journey with her in this episode that that that grabbed you and i'm not trying to be like concern trolling like i i really enjoyed this episode and but i'm where you are with it.

26:22I just don't really see TV that is delving into these kinds of emotional realities, even if the reality of the show is almost science fictional. And so the depiction of loneliness and the depiction of longing and the depiction of needing companionship is so incredible. And I think that sometimes there are shows that are challenging, and I'm like, well, you just don't get it. I know that this is challenging, and I know that there is a kind of time-lapse thing going on here and a focus on things that most TV shows, most movies even, would be like, this happens in between the cuts. Or this is what would happen as we transition from interior to exterior or from this to two days later when something else important happens.

27:10And instead, this is very carefully choosing certain days in this woman's life and showing almost all of it. and I think the cumulative effect that I am feeling is that all of that stuff all that work every time you listen to the voicemail message every time you've watched her do something domestic inside of her house is like piling up so that breakthrough moments like like the diner scene which I think is yeah amazing the idea that somebody would do something so kind but also so creepy yeah and that she would feel both of those things at the same time and that it would mean so much to her. It's the happiest I've ever seen Carol.

27:52Yeah. And then immediately, she becomes incredibly alarmed at that, you know? Yeah, there's something, the show works on so many levels and one of the things that I think makes it ultimately successful is that you can look at it in the macro of what's happened to the world and what are these massive swings in our society or specifically that have happened to us recently that we're using as mirrors to reflect what's happening in the show, but then also like the emotional minutiae of what's happening with Carol. and the diner scene reminded me of a moment also in the episode when she's like would you like me to after she slept over in the hockey arena or whatever that is and she's like would you like me to make you breakfast and she's like no no you don't have to do that it's okay and there's this idea of asking people for things which for some of us is hard to do and then the extra level of it where it's literally nothing to them whether it's power washing her street or having sex whether it's making her breakfast whether it's having sex with her or whether it's spending untold weeks to completely creepily recreate a long-burned business.

28:59Clearly, there are people who don't have that kind of moral quandary like Diabate, and then Carol is somewhere in the middle of it. And it's interesting to watch someone who has issues, but then also some sense of, like she doesn't actually want that kind of labor done for her, but she also doesn't think she deserves it. And so it's a psychological story at the same time that it is a societal story. Yeah, and I think I always looked at Minusos' character as this