‘Project Hail Mary,’ ‘Marshals,’ ‘Jury Duty Presents: Company Retreat,’ and ‘SNL UK.’ Plus, ‘Paradise’ S2E7.

19:23Andy Greenwald:Everything up to touching home. Yes, yes. Sorry, when you said third base, I thought about how J.P. Crawford ripped a triple before his call up to the major league. So that's the secret life I'm interested in. I thought you were thinking about the gas face. No. MC Search and Pete Nice. Do you watch the Bachelor and Bachelorette franchises, Kaya? So I used to, but I haven't tuned in in a couple years. But I was all set to tune in to Taylor Frankie Paul's season. So is this a sign? Give me my easy older man hot take. Prep me. Is this a sign of the debasement of this once romantic franchise that now they have to dumpster dive for celebrity weirdos?

19:57It was Disney's effort to fully vertically integrate because Secret Lives of Mormon Wives is like a Hulu show, bachelor's ABC thing so they were like we're gonna take somebody from a reality show that we already have and even further upstream them and she had a pretty serious domestic violence incident I guess is the best way to put it in which some footage was leaked of her like going off

20:21Andy Greenwald:yeah and so they pulled the season the entire season they filmed the season but they're like fully like they've shot another Mormon Wives season or not or they were shooting it. The fifth season of Mormon Wives just aired. They were in production on season six, but the production, shortly before they canned the Bachelorette season, they had stopped down production on season six of Mormon Wives. To let her go do Bachelorette. No, she had already wrapped filming because she had more, um, she was having more issues and more domestic violence issues with her partner. Yeah. And so they had paused production on season six.

20:59But there's, like, also, like, a sublayer of it. It's like what's real and what's not. And we're like, she's, she is, is she, was she still with this guy for up until the point of going on?

21:10Andy Greenwald:Kind of a semantics guy, but I realize now it's tough to go from being a Mormon wife to a bachelorette without some bumps in the road. Right. Like you can't, I think that would be the pitch for this season. Yeah. Yeah. Put me in coach. I'm ready. I'm ready to market this. In any case. Wow. I read about that this weekend. Okay. How was that? I mean, it was an interesting New York Magazine profile of her. Quite well-timed. And I watched Michael Powell and Emmerich Pressburger's A Canterbury Tale. Wow. It was quite good. You contain fucking multitudes, dog. That's incredible. You did both those things, high and low.

21:44I did. What would you like to talk about? The shared experience of watching Paradise?

21:48Andy Greenwald:No, let's end with a shared experience. Let's run through a couple shows to give people a sense of what they should or shouldn't be watching. We used to do that. We used to offer a service. I'm going to talk about Marshalls real quick. take your time do you feel like you still need bad TV in your life uh well I feel like I've been getting a steady diet no that's not what I mean though I don't mean TV that aims to be good but winds up missing the mark right uh I don't mean 57 minute shows that like yeah you're just kind of like maybe I just don't really care about these people or what happens to them or whether or not this works out for X Y or Z I mean straight up like I'm watching this yeah I can't really like it's it's essentially shot like an episode of the Drew Barrymore show.

22:29I can't really tell like seven of the characters' names, but I remember with one guy's name. But there is just enough of a story that will be resolved in the 42 minutes that I am watching this.

22:42Andy Greenwald:Yeah. That I will blithely have it on. Now, Sam Esmail always used to make fun of us for the idea of a laundry show, like a show that you're walking in and out of the room for. But I think I found it. Talk to me. It's Marshalls. Now Marshall's is part of the larger Yellowstone project. I'm not going to get into like a huge reading of the state of the Taylor Sharon universe because I know that there's like only a select group of people who listen to us really give a shit about it. But this is an interesting expansion because it is one of two, this one and then the Dutton Ranch, which is coming in May.

23:17Andy Greenwald:And what's that coming on? That's Paramount Plus, and that's Cole and... Cole Hauser and Kelly Riley extending the Yellowstone story. Okay. But this is on CBS. This is on CBS. Both shows are not written by Taylor Sheridan. Okay. Both shows are more of like based on characters created by Taylor Sheridan and executive produced by Taylor Sheridan. But written by Claude. No. I would say that the first two episodes of Marshalls is actually like made me mad because I was like a more prestigious execution of this story would be interesting. It's very, very reminiscent to me of the times when I've been, you know, when I would be at my mom's house and like Chicago Fire, 19 episodes of Chicago Fire would be on and I would be like, for some reason I am following this even though I'm like in the room one-tenth of the time.

24:08It's basically about the character Casey was my favorite character on Yellowstone, which is why I give Marshalls a shot. Just all of a sudden becoming a Marshall, which honestly they handle in about three minutes and I'm totally fine with. That's fine. And he's in a high-intensity guns-forward part of the Marshalls with Logan Marshall Green, a couple other people. And the second episode is actually really cool. It's kind of Sicario-lite Aryan Brotherhood and Mexican cartels are doing a fentanyl deal in the zone of death, which is like the Montana-Wyoming border. Is that what they're calling it now?

24:42Well, that's where they used to dump bodies on Yellowstone.

24:46Andy Greenwald:Oh, so it is referencing. It does. It does make some references. And it's actually like a pretty good episode of television. But it did strike me that like there's so much stuff, not only that's on right now, stuff that is on recently enough. Like I've mentioned a couple of times my shame at never catching up on Dark Winds, you know? Yeah, it seems like something we would really like. Yeah. And I'm like, well, I'm watching Marshalls, which has some stuff to recommend. And then there's parts of it that you're just like, I need to be put to sleep. But there is a weird extra layer of guilt to watching bad television when you know you could always be watching something that at least has a promise of being really good.

25:33Andy Greenwald:Yeah, but there's also a reason why we eat snack food and like dependable, like comfort food. That's fine. I think that the rhythms of that, and when we talk about Paradise, this will come into play too. because Paradise is so broadcast television, it's DNA, that it is possible to skate along the surface of the show. It is possible to, dare I say it, at least consider doing a load of whites while you're dancing between the bunker and the outside world. But you're right in the sense that because that part of my diet is, I'm lacking in that part of the diet, even in RFK's inverted pyramid. I def I there's just too much other stuff for me to catch up on even though I would probably find that reassuring the the sensation that I'm basically chasing is like coming home yeah after a long day of doing something that had nothing to do with television yes and it's like 5 30 and while I'm making dinner I put on a show and that's the show that comes on but I had no choice you know I was like I'm just putting on TBS or I'm putting on USA and that show comes on And I'm like, you know what?

26:42Like, out of order, I wind up watching these Marshalls episodes. But now, at any given moment of your life, between standing on grocery lines or making your dinner or any hours that you're going to spend watching stuff, you could theoretically be watching a Canterbury Tale or Dark Winds or whatever. It's kind of hard to negotiate with stuff that's just like... Look, 18 million people watched an episode of Marshalls. they don't need my my cosign signature um and i'll probably keep watching it because of my dedication to casey dutton but um it's it's strange it's a really nice thing to just kind of relax

27:24Andy Greenwald:into something i i don't think we've talked about this but you know what i started watching with the girls is fire up jeopardy really jeopardy is just you could just they're all streaming yeah you could just watch it whenever you want without the commercials yeah right and then you just watch Jeopardy. And they like it? Yeah. Because you know what's good? Jeopardy. Like it's completely the same except sometimes like Claro will be an answer. But other than that it's very very very pleasant to make the machine do what it used to do. Yes. And have those rhythms of like well this is a fine thing. This is a fine thing to do together.

27:58So like I would just I would I guess like if you're really desperate for more Yellowstone Sheridan stuff it's interesting to watch someone kind of write what they think Sheridan sounds like. Spencer Hudnett wrote and created this one.

28:14Andy Greenwald:Yeah. And the first two scripts are good and Greg Utanis directed the first two episodes. Great director. And they have some verve but I just you know for as much as we knock Netflix for like the Netflix effect of the visual language that we are kind of all speaking now man CBS procedurals really they look diff. Can I ask you though and maybe this is going to be useful for some of our listeners as well. I think it's time to come to reckon with this. And I think it was clear for anyone who listened to our last show from Thursday, but I'm willing to admit that I suffer from TDS. Taylor Derangement Syndrome?

28:51Andy Greenwald:Taylor Derangement Syndrome. And if anyone else is suffering from that, is it a healthier experience for them to watch a show that is just straightforward? Oh, you shouldn't watch this. No, no. Which camera's not? I wasn't going to. This is all just Canterbury Tales, though. I've just added to my criteria. I don't think you'd be as triggered by this as... That's what I'm saying. Because maybe the issue isn't the dudes riding horses to the zone of death in 40 minutes and back again in time for supper. It's that in the middle of it, there isn't a large conversation about pronouns and ferrets. Yeah, there's not.

29:22They don't have any time for discursive conversations in Marshalls. It's all like a lot of skeletons out there. Sometimes they should stay buried. That's right, brother. And then they go do their thing.

29:34Andy Greenwald:That just seems like good advice. Yeah, sure. Sure. One thing I will say about Logan Marshall Green and the cast is that very convincing wearing the tactical vest. I am curious. They obviously did a lot of weapons training and stuff for this show. I don't know if they did weapons training while you're on a horse because there's a scene in the second episode where he seems rather uncomfortable. And then there's a lot of very far away shots of guys on horses. Do you think you'd be comfortable on the horse without the tactical gear? Or do you think it's the horse? Maybe it was just lack of kind of movement.

30:12Yeah, yeah.

30:13Andy Greenwald:I'm just trying to look out for my guy. Give me a show that you watched over the weekend. You know, one of the things I love about contemporary television landscape is the ability to be surprised. Not necessarily surprised by the quality or tenor of programming, because we pretty much ticked all the boxes and there's nothing new to invent. More that we can still be like, wait, what is this? And it's on where? and that was my reaction when I heard that there was a sitcom that was already five or six episodes deep starring Kevin Kline and Laura Linney and it was airing on MGM Plus which I have to admit I thought was like freebie and then it's not it's what epics used to be and you have to pay for it this doesn't even sound like a real conversation I know and so the idea and the show is about a titan of Broadway do they still do freebie?

30:59Andy Greenwald:I don't know I don't think so a titan of see don't Jeff's not giving that away for free anymore. We're keeping it all in. But just like the idea of people pitching a television show that is about a titan of Broadway being brought low and then returning to his rural hometown to save his local theater with the help of his family. I'm like, first of all, okay, grandma, come back to your rest home. But also, that sounds like a great, great thing for pilot season on Amazon in 2013. Is it a period piece? No. It's a contemporary show. It is a contemporary show. Oh. It is a contemporary show made by the director Michael Hoffman and the comedy writer, musical theater actor Bob Martin.

31:49Andy Greenwald:And it stars Kevin Kline, as I said, and Laura Linney, and also a sparkling constellation of Broadway greats. and it's so bizarre to me that it exists. Like you watch it and I genuinely feel happy for people to do what they want. I'm not trying to rag on this show. I think it's kind of a small miracle that it exists. And any show that's trying to make it about like how we should support local theater is clearly fine with me and how I see the world. I want to talk to you about Kevin Kline. Sure. Kevin Kline doesn't need us to big up him Still married to Phoebe Cates. You think you got to you're still working on your angles there?

32:31No, I was just asking if he was still married to Phoebe Cates. 100 % he is. Okay.

32:36Andy Greenwald:And happily, I might add. Okay. It's just that like It would be amazing if Kevin Kline showed up before Project Hail Mary was like, I am still married to Phoebe Cates which some people might find as amazing as space travel. Enjoy Project Hail Mary. The problem with movie theaters is we haven't given an idea is big enough, including the majesty of my relationship with Fast Times at Ridgemont High star Phoebe Cates. Kevin Kline, one of our great American actors of the stage and screen, recently watched one of my favorite Kevin Kline films, Dave with my children. Absolutely hits, close to a perfect movie.

33:16Andy Greenwald:Loved it. I have to say that as he's aged, he definitely, his approach to performance seems to have changed slightly. And we just watched, was it called Disclosure? The Cuaron? Was that Cuaron? Who directed that? Yeah. That's weird. It was. That happened. Was it no disclaimer? The Disclosure. Disclaimer. I think it was. That was another show. It's like this really exists. And in that show, remember, he played a grieving British pensioner. I remember. Who endeavors to ruin Cate Blanchett's life. Yes. Oh, yes, we did. I know you did. I think you were like, I'm kind of like committed to this. I hope you did too because otherwise it was a lonely walk.

33:58Okay.

33:58Andy Greenwald:And he was, what's the word for not subtle in that show? No. And in this show, which seems to be created around him, he plays an extravagant aging line of Broadway who likes a tipple named Richard Bean, who in the opening performs Lear with someone reading his lines to him in his ear and then at the party afterwards finds out that he has received bad reviews and he basically, not assaults, but has a viral meltdown moment yelling at the New York Times theater critics. So this is finger on the pulse stuff. And I would say there is broad as a barn door and then there's whatever he is doing in this.

34:35Andy Greenwald:In this, in American classic. In American classic. And then it also takes me out slightly when he is forced to return home because his mother has died. This is his brother, John Tenney, a great working actor for many years is in it. He's really good. Calls him and is like, Richard, you have to come home. Our mother has died, but our father is still alive. And at this point, reader, I have to confess, I did Google Kevin Kline age. Kevin Kline is 78 years young. And Sam Elliott plays his dad. It's fucking that again. It is. Is it? No. First of all, when they shot the first season, first few episodes of the show with Harris Ulan playing his dad in his 90s.

35:11Oh, that lead Harris Ulan, yeah.

35:12Andy Greenwald:He passed away and they recast with Len Carrioux, legend of Broadway, who's basically nine years older. It's the Sam Elliott corollary. and it's just kind of I'm willing to accept any framing you can't get Kevin Kline's dad like there's no man who's alive I know and so these are the kind of thoughts where I'm like maybe cast Kevin Kline as the dad or let's just give the whole thing kind of a think I'm willing to accept we're going to talk about on Paradise how there is a young boy on that show named Bean who has lived in a bunker for three years and has frozen at nine years old and I feel like they should be studying him for that reason.

35:51Andy Greenwald:But I'm willing to accept some versions of like, okay, well, you know, it's the magic of theater or magic of the movies that these things don't happen. But it does beggar belief a little bit to be like, this nearly 80-year-old man has a few more acts in his one-man show, including dealing with his troublesome parents and marrying one at that age. But they've tried to address it. Like there's the young Laura Linney who's married to John Tenney who plays Klein's brother. Okay, so it's his sister-in-law. His sister-in-law. And they have a past at this local theater. And I wonder what Phoebe Cates thought about that.

36:28Andy Greenwald:And John Tenney and Laura Linney's daughter is like, I want to go to New York and be an actor, Uncle Richard. And like you Google her and she's like 30. So they did try to like... You're really fixated on people's ages right now. I wonder what that says. I think it says that I'm fixated on our age and how much longer we can continue to be the hip voice of young television. of Mormon wives are right there for us. Mormon wives are honestly Starfleet, the next generation academy. That's us. We're recruits. So this was a tough watch, but it was kind of a fascinating watch. So not fully thumbs down, but not a passionate recommendation.

37:04Andy Greenwald:I would say it's not a passionate recommendation, but like it's fun that Len Carriu and Steven Spinella and Aaron Tvite and like all these people are having a good time. I do support people working and enjoying what they do and the message of like, let's save small town theater is a good one. Snoring, gasping during sleep, feeling fatigued? Wake up to ZepBound, Terzepatide, the first and only FDA-approved prescription medicine for moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and adults with obesity. ZepBound is an injectable prescription medicine that may help adults with moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and obesity to improve their OSA.

37:42Andy Greenwald:ZepBound should be used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity. Z-Bound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, or 15 milligram injection. Z-Bound contains terzepatide and should not be used with other terzepatide-containing products or any GLP-1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Z-Bound is safe and effective for use in children. Do not share needles or pens or reuse needles. Don't take Z-Bound if allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer or multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck.

38:13Andy Greenwald:Stop ZepBound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes, depression, or suicidal thoughts before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. If you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills. Taking ZepBound with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-5979 or visit zetbound.lily.com.

38:44Andy Greenwald:Zetbound and its delivery device base in QuickPen are registered trademarks owned or licensed by Eli Lilly and Company, its subsidiaries, or affiliates. This episode is brought to you by Volkswagen. It can be hard to do your own thing when everyone else is following everyone else, but that's what some of the best films are about, an outcast striving to make their own way in the world. And this is your sign to be that outcast. from us, from VW, from the other outcasts out there, take a chance. Make the most of every day and don't be afraid to veer off course every now and then because if you don't do it now, then when?

39:19Learn more at vw.com. This episode is brought to you by the Active Cash Credit Card from Wells Fargo. That's a mouthful, but that's because it packs a lot in. Earn unlimited 2 % cash rewards on purchases with it, big or small. So whether it's buying tickets to the game or grabbing a coffee, It earns unlimited 2 % cash rewards on purchases. Say it with me. The Active Cash credit card from Wells Fargo. Be a 2 %er. Learn more at wellsfargo.com forward slash active cash. Terms apply. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast.

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40:21Andy Greenwald:You're going to watch something on MGM Plus? No, actually, it's just broadly the Prime Video umbrella because I assume you didn't watch it on MGM's standalone app. You watched it on Amazon, right? No, I'm committed. I want to see the experience from the inside. So I downloaded the app. I signed up. And I'll tell you one thing. They've really updated the roaring MGM line. Do you ever open Prime Video? Do I ever open it? Yeah. Why? Because it's right there. Yeah, I know. I was watching LA Confidential on it multiple times this weekend. Multiple times. I believe you. I believe you. Don't get nervous.

40:59Andy Greenwald:It's going to be fun. It's about Los Angeles. It is. I watched something that was on Amazon, which is you could probably watch American Classic on Amazon because like a lot of those are like fed into the Prime Video umbrella system. I don't think that's true. Okay. And I watched something called Jury Duty Company Retreat, which is the second run around the block for the Jury Duty concept. Did you enjoy the first season? I think that this is one of the ones where I might be wrong, but I did not. Okay. Now, I thought the first season was really funny. Yeah. And it brought us the beginning of the James Marsden-sense that we are still living through.

41:33The Bradshaw administration is the president of my heart. He was obviously fantastic in that. I've only watched the first two of the season, which got dropped in its entirety on Amazon. And it's really funny to watch a show for its second season. The first one, I was just like, how are they doing this? This is so kind of like strange to like be like a voyeur.

42:00Andy Greenwald:Explain the conceit. So it's about a sequestered jury where one of the jurors is being put in the center of like a social experiment slash TV show. And all the other jurors. I think that's why I tapped out. Are actors who are playing jury. And it's supposed to basically be like, how is this person going to react to all these different crazy situations? and they found like the one guy in the world who had like a really good heart and a really good sense of humor about the whole project. And it was a really, I think it was a successful show and very funny and touching in places. Watching Jury Duty season two, so the idea is basically a temp arrives at a hot sauce company to work for the CEO and the HR department as like a, you know, assistant.

42:45And he finds out like, we're actually doing our company retreat. It's like a couple of days in Agora Hills. and we're going out there and like you'll be helping with that and he's like cool okay and of course as soon as he gets out there it's like um it's just like everything that could go wrong and all the funny like you know a guy is drinking out of what he thinks is a complimentary uh water bottle and it turns out to be a used fleshlight that someone had left in his hotel room i see uh that kind of thing um so it's not really press burger and emmerich level of i feel like watching it i am pretty highly aware of all the people in the show acting yeah you know what i mean and doing bits and and also creating having predetermined like hopefully this person will be the um pam to his gym or the that kind of like constellation of office archetypes that they are trying now i could be wrong obviously there could be lots of twists and turns that happen on this show and who really knows with the character like i think that there's a version of this show where it goes off the rails because the guy who's the protagonist the unwitting protagonist would be like i don't fucking like this you know like uh i imagine that wouldn't get aired uh because it's not a heartwarming comedy right but i guess i was just a little bit aware of the puppet strings this time around but i will probably keep checking it out to see the episodes are pretty short um the the whole season's up.

44:12Andy Greenwald:Can you watch it on MGM Plus, like reciprocity wise? You would know, man. You would know. Do you have it on your computer or is it only an Apple TV? Or did you get a separate Apple TV box just for MGM app? The MGM app. I wanted to really focus. I took this seriously. Because Amazon owns MGM. Yes. Yeah. Yes, and so that's why this has been a very MGM-coded podcast because Project Hail Mary is also, I believe, an MGM picture. The lion still roars. I'm proud of that lion because I have to say, no disrespect, like it is a legendary movie house, but I don't know if it's, it's, Star has lost its luster a little bit.

44:49Andy Greenwald:So the fact that they've like MGM Plus. Yeah. Do you have a favorite movie studio opening? Like it's the Paramount Mountain or it's the 20th Century Fox Reverie? What about the Columbia lady? Isn't that what that? What does she do? Isn't she standing there? This, Columbia Pictures. Oh, her, yeah. The woman, she's holding the fleshlight. Yeah. Trying to put her head. statue isn't like the statue of liberty lady but she's not yeah but she looks like it well I mean first of all not all women you know standing there is she like the Greek god of story like who is that I wish I had an answer for you I like that one I like I like old school Warner Brothers do you know what I really like I like when you get that little scratchy Janice films oh yeah cause you're like oh damn this is gonna be so real about to cook up some shit we're going to the mean streets of Oslo today Canterbury.

45:41Let's go. Okay, so. I love that. Jury duty. And then we have two things. Well, we have one thing that we watched. We actually did watch a little bit, or I watched a bunch of, and you watched some of Saturday Night Live UK. Or is there another one that you wanted to show us on?

45:53Andy Greenwald:Oh, I would just say that I know that this isn't, this probably isn't to your liking, although you did say you've been tippling a little bit more of the noble grape recently. Yeah, but we're getting out of red wine season. It's a little hot, you know? It's true. A little foggy today, though. You could have kicked the day off. A little sort of a chewy gamay. There's a character on Marshall's. It's really funny, actually. I don't know. It's obviously probably corporate sponsorship, but Logan Marshall Green's character on Marshall's drinks Blue Moon. Come on. Wait, he puts on... Why didn't we lead with this?

46:23Andy Greenwald:So you're telling me that a Marshall who rides horseback with tactical gear into the zone of death drinks Blue Moon. sips a little wheat beer with a lemon floating in it? There's another character on the show, a lady who, when they go to the cowboy bar and there's always like a surprise performance from a relatively up-and-coming country star. Amazing. She drinks red wine. At the country bar? Yeah. But it has to be branded, right? Or is that just telling us something about her? No, she's just like, it's like her usual because the bartender is always like, tough day. Is he in the bottle? No, like a glass.

46:56Andy Greenwald:It would be really amazing that if in this honky-tonk bar put like a perfect Riedel stem glass in front and then like had the little thing that like just decants the right amount without spoiling, oxidizing the wine. So it's like squirt. Oh my God, I would literally give my entire life savings if you could be a day player on Marshall's. Be like, this is quaffable. Marshall's Sommelier? Yeah. It's all plonk, unfortunately. Speaking of wine. Speaking of wine, one of my favorite shows from a few years ago, we touched on it a few weeks ago, that it was back, Drops of God, finished its second season on Apple.

47:31Andy Greenwald:And I really, really enjoy the show. Good. And I really thought it was a fascinating example. Look, if you aren't into the show from the log line that it is a kind of lovely, kind of gauzy international production that is equal parts Japanese, French, and English. And very, very deep into these vineyards about like varietals and the importance of and the artistry and the humanity of wine. You might be out on it. But if you do, if you're one of those people who listens to our show and is interested when we talk about like the scaffolding behind the shows that we like, I really thought that they made a lot of smart choices on how to turn a show that was very concept driven.

48:16Andy Greenwald:First season is a young woman inherits this legacy from her father, who is the most prestigious and feared wine expert in the world. And basically, he has left her as his legacy a competition to earn his cellar and his mantle. And she must compete against her father, her late father's protege, who's a Japanese man. It turns out, spoiler alert, is her half-brother. It's always the way. That's how we met. And your father was the most discerning film critic in Philadelphia. and he put us on this podcast together. Rather than make it another competition, they made the season half kind of a chase to find a missing wine and then a much more like character-driven story about the depths that we will go to find out the truth about our past or whatever.

49:02Andy Greenwald:And it was really well done. And it set the show up in a way that would allow it to run future seasons. Okay. Did they go to the cellar? Did they finally let somebody win? In the first season, they did. Oh, who won? you want me to no you don't spoil it for the listeners for me you can spoil it after we're done recording I'll spoil it okay but the but the second season it's an interesting thing if you get a chance to make a second season do you go super conservative and run the first season back because honestly in this climate it's a miracle that you got two maybe you won't get three or do you do the work that might not be alienating but might you might see some of the seams as you transition the show from a one season thing into potentially a multi-season thing And it was pretty unsentimental about that in a way that I appreciate it.

49:46Andy Greenwald:It was very entertaining. Before we get into Paradise, let's talk briefly about Saturday Night Live UK. How aware of this project were you? I was very aware. Because it was probably brewing when the last time you were over there was, right? Yes, and no one was talking about it. In a nice way? No, I'm just kidding. It wasn't like, you know, we weren't at the Devonshire being like, you know, another round of the black stuff. And also, have you heard that Lorne is bringing his trademark rapier wit over here? It's interesting to see it be franchised. So Saturday Night Live, the first episode, their premiere episode aired Saturday night in London, in England, and then was available on Peacock, I think, at 6 Pacific, 9 Eastern last night.

50:25Tina Fey was the host.

50:27Andy Greenwald:American. And Wet Leg was the musical guest. And I thought they were real good. Yeah. It had some of the usual kind of Saturday Night Live cameos, although here are the cameos that happened during Tina Fey's monologue and I think are indicative of the spirit of the show. So, Nicola Coughlin from Dairy Girls and Bridgerton. Yep. And Michael Cera. Mm-hmm. And Michael Cera was like, why are you here? And he was like, it's part of the Commonwealth, you know? And Graham Norton. And Graham Norton. So, what does that tell you? It tells you that, like, it's a little offbeat. It's very British. Mm-hmm.

51:00And it's very United Kingdom. And there was a lot of jokes about, like, why is Tina Fey hosting this? and she made a, with an F word, she said, because none of you fuckers would do it. Yeah. Speaking to, I think maybe some of the cynicism or apprehension that the larger, you know, UK comedy community might have had about the series. That being said, I follow a bunch of primarily Irish comedians like, and they were all pretty like, it was really funny because some of them were like, I auditioned and didn't get it. Yeah. But they were all like, that was pretty good. And, I got to say, say it had a quality that I kind of miss from SNL which is a lack of it wasn't as self-conscious as I feel like SNL is now where a lot of the time you feel like they're trying to get to a viral moment or trying to get characters you know actors to break so that they can have like this hilarious experience and even watching Weekend Update with two people that I had no familiarity

52:01Andy Greenwald:with they were good and we're doing all Keir Starmer jokes and it was much more intellectually rigorous, I think, maybe. Well, I felt smug that I got the David Walliams joke. Yeah. You know, I was there long enough to get that. Sure. I thought they were, who's the guy? It's Patty Young. Is that the guy who does the, who had the mustache? Yeah. Great delivery. I thought it was really interesting to see the way the structure of SNL is so entrenched in the way that it was just actually quite easily transportable and made you think, why did it take 50 years to even try it. Seriously. From the not very good, but fine political cold open to the opening credits of people I have mostly never seen before having a bit of a laugh with the pedicabs in central London, you know, or bringing too many drinks back at the pub to the band, to the cut, to the no commercials this time, but to a fake commercial and then Weekend Update.

53:02Andy Greenwald:Like, it's a very, very familiar and easy format. And just the nature of it, made me realize you don't need Tina Fey to justify it because the rhythms were so familiar that we knew very clearly what they were doing. It also seems like not that big of an ask because the UK comedy scene is amazing and distinct and doesn't need this. At the same time, the UK comedy scene is like the UK theater scene or the UK TV scene, slightly smaller than it is here. Quite incestuous. Everybody knows each other. everybody's putting on a show, come see me at Soho Theater, come see me at the Edinburgh Fringe or whatever.

53:39Andy Greenwald:An opportunity to be on TV once a week and kind of drive conversation, drive culture or potentially go viral just makes too much sense. The fact that it's not obviously for Americans, it's, I imagine, not going to be on linear television. No, but I think there was, I saw some talk yesterday when I was first looking for it that it wasn't available within the window some people thought. Like you said, it came on later. Yeah. And that there was clearly a lot of interest. Because the desire to see something funny. It could just go on. Obviously, I don't think they want to put it up against a Saturday Night Live broadcast.

54:09Right. But I was sort of surprised that it wasn't up on Saturday night at some point because I don't think there was a new Saturday Night Live this week. Right. It just would have been nice to have been able to watch it at some point before Sunday night.

54:23Andy Greenwald:The other thing is, American Saturday Night Live is famously incredibly expensive. and weirdly has almost now justifies its insane price tag because it is also, I believe this is still true, the highest rated show on linear NBC at this point. I think so. Which is insane considering when it airs. But the idea of making another version of Saturday Night Live that can fuel the larger NBC brand and provide it with viral opportunities, potential stars, just something people are clicking on, on Peacock or on the in-house YouTube channels for the relatively cheap price of a lot of relatively unknowns, it seems like a no-brainer.

55:06My last observation about this, I liked the David Attenborough's last dinner sketch and the Hamlet or the Shakespeare sketch. Yeah. But my last very American observation is this was... I'm not like a huge Game of Thrones person about Saturday Night Live. Like, I don't really know. Yeah. But it did make me wonder whether Tina Fey is going to replace Lauren. To see her be the kind of flagship ambassador. Yeah. And I was like, she's still really funny. I mean, obviously she's still really funny. But also watching her play, she seemed to have a feel for how a show should work. Yeah. And I wonder whether or not she worked with them at all in terms of structuring it or in terms of...

55:50Andy Greenwald:I would guess. Yeah. But I think the impediment to Tina taking over is why would she want to do that? why would she want to be the person after the person why would she want to blow up she might be like she might be better for sure but also I don't know her personally but she seems like she has a pretty good life doing what she wants I don't know man I mean I agree with you but like I mean she's not married to Phoebe Cates but none of these people are ever like I'm good I'm done you know like yeah that's a really hard life I think possibly one of the things that she could institute is a different like kind of framework for how to make the show I know that it's basically...

56:26You don't have to stay late. It's a ship that runs itself. I mean, it's baked into the premise that it's going to be late nights. But I wonder whether or not there are certain elements of it that's like a chaos factory because of the way Lorne is always... I have no idea.

56:39Andy Greenwald:So to investigate the note behind the note, how would you run the ringer differently if you stepped in? Like, would you change the... From Bill? Yeah. Would you change, like, the hours? Would you change the catering? I would definitely change the catering. Like, you would get some? Yeah. Because I'm very hungry. I will say about SNL UK that did you know anyone? Did you recognize anyone in the cast? I didn't. Hamid Anemashan, who is someone I've been watching for a minute. He's really funny. Good shoot. Joe Black Ops. But that was also cool where like I don't, genuinely I mean this as a compliment.

57:10Andy Greenwald:Like there's a democratization of culture there that I don't fully understand. Whereas here, country so big, the money-making opportunities are so vastly disparate that we would be like, why is that guy on TV when I saw that guy in the movies? or why is that movie star doing a play now if he's not trying to - Why does this comedian have a podcast, but it's not very funny? Well, 100 % that. There, like the pathways from doing a, you know, a day player role on a TV show, like Papa Esadu being on, who's one of the best British actors of his generation and is going to be Snape in Harry Potter. He did a one episode turn on Joe Barton's show, Black Doves, because he had been in Joe's other show.

57:51Andy Greenwald:And then he's also on stage And he very well could start a podcast or show up on SNL UK too because you just work. So I kind of think that might speak well, both for the cast and future cast of the show, but also Michael Cera aside, people are around. People are around and will be willing to show up on the show in a different way. Also, a lot of stuff is shooting in London. Most things are not shooting in London. And so people will be in the mix. Like we could go full circle, like Gazi. that's what my English co-workers were calling Ryan Gosling when they would see him on the Heath when he was moved there for a year to film Starfighter Gosling might drop in let's talk about Paradise before we get out of here spoilers for last night's episode of the final countdown is the name of the episode spoiler they play a slowcore version of Europe's final countdown so spoilers for the episode going forward because it's very difficult to talk about it without talking about what happens in it we have certainly entered an interesting zone with this show that everybody who I've recommended it to recommended it to is like, oh my God, they killed that character?

58:56And now we apparently are hitting the no one ever really dies part of Paradise where if you were wondering why James Marsden was so extensively featured in a continued flashback role in season two, there's now a world where Cal's just in a different reality, I think is probably what's being suggested by the end of the episode.

59:18Andy Greenwald:Talk me through that. Well, it seems that Link, the character played by Thomas Doherty that we like very much, who had that lovely tryst with Shailene Woodley at Graceland, and she gave birth to his daughter. Yeah. It seems that he has come to the bunker in Colorado with his militia to kill Alex. Whatever Alex, whoever or whatever Alex may be. It seems more like a what. and at the end of his conversation with Sinatra, which has been this negotiation about, like, we want one of your nuclear reactors and blah, blah, blah. He is referred to as Dylan, which is the name of Samantha's late son, right?

1:00:02At the end of the episode, she goes into a room. We don't see what she's looking at. She seems to need to put on some kind of lab coat. I don't know if it's to protect from radiation or whatever. And she says, did she say it worked? Alex?

1:00:15Andy Greenwald:No, she just says hi Alex. Hi Alex. Oh, she tells her husband everything worked. Everything worked. So my guess is that Samantha, while also creating a safe haven for society in the Colorado bunker, has also been working on a multiple reality time... So basically the idea that you're suggesting here is that she created a safe haven for the remnants of society, but potentially created another pocket safety that kept everyone alive or restarted people or... Or that people are out there that don't know that they're... You know what I mean? That are a part of some other strain of reality or a strain of time that are now...

1:01:02Maybe they were brought forward by the end of the world.

1:01:05Andy Greenwald:And Link might be a link between these worlds. Now you're picking up on it. So did you not feel that way when you saw the end of the episode? I gotta be honest with you. I don't, I really like this show. But you don't care. I don't care. Right. But I don't mean that in a way that's to be dismissive. I know what you mean. I genuinely am like, okay. Let me know next week. Can't wait. I always say this because this episode also featured what looks like the death of Jane after her standalone episode.

1:01:34And, you know, I think that for as exciting as those character deaths can be, they may or may not have any consequence.

1:01:41Andy Greenwald:Well, they also are like, the interesting the interesting thing about the show is it is very self-aware because Dan Fogelman with This Is Us really really a pioneer in the field of doesn't matter if characters are dead they have a lot of stories still to explore in flashbacks sure and so he carried that forward into the show the idea that he is iterating on that idea being like they may be playing future alternate versions of themselves too so we're going to keep them in the call sheet I find that fascinating I find that compelling I find that interesting I didn't go as far as you did, but that does make sense because as we were saying last week when we talked about the show, there are these, you know, Xavier's having these little flash forward dream things as if there is some sort of time travel element.

1:02:24Andy Greenwald:It is absolutely, this is not, this wasn't subtle, like I didn't, this wasn't buried in the mix that this is clearly her son. Is this a version of her son that she has yet to meet or something that proves the success of her program? We don't know. But this brings me to my observation, which is everything that you're saying and that this was a this is this is the last card turn of the show's big plan. Oh, I don't know about that. But I'm saying if it is, if that's where we're headed in season three. Time travel, multiple realities. that would track with the fact that all of the reporting and the announcing of the renewal of the show for its third season was that this was always intended to be and was pitched and conceived as a three season show that would suggest that you know that we're not that it's revealing this big card turn right on schedule for wherever the ultimate end game of the show is paradise being maybe the afterlife, Paradise also being the third book in Dante's trilogy.

1:03:29Andy Greenwald:You know, so we're seeing that that is a framing that seems to be consistent with what the show has always intended to be, apparently. I would say, though, in my viewing experience of this season and especially the last two to three episodes post Shailene Woodley, it is not carrying itself like a three-season show. If it is a three-season show, and I say this especially because Paradise is so, so, so fast. And so like move fast, break things and worry about it later in a way that I find admirable. And unlike a lot of the plotting prestige stuff that we generally cover, everything that you put on screen has to be vitally important.

1:04:08Andy Greenwald:Sure. In terms of the larger end game and thus maybe why we have the Shailene Woodley Messiah baby looming, even though Xavier just left that baby a couple episodes ago. Okay. I buy all that, but I also feel just as a viewer, where everything you put on screen then ought to be really, really compelling, not just important for the plot. And by that metric, I think the last few episodes have kind of failed. Not just because I don't really care about Jane's I'm a killer backstory, but also President Cal's adventures, President Cal's son's misadventures in the underworld are so boring and so uncharismatic and compelling.

1:04:45That part of the people who are in Paradise Prison, the bunker prison, and all like there are several teenagers that I'm like I know you're somebody's child and you seem to be working with Xavier's former partner yes and the guy who built this whole thing yes let me know when you guys get get to where you're going you know you are like the

1:05:07Andy Greenwald:I'm sorry that happened or I'm happy for you I ain't yeah it's it's just like when there are a lot of there are several you I'm sure there are a paradise podcast that are granular and dedicated to every movement. When it comes to the teens, I'm out. I'm just like, I'm like looking. Yeah, like Sinatra's daughter is a hacker who can provide wristband access to anyone, anywhere. Oh, that's right. I forgot Sinatra's daughter is one of the outsiders. there's just a lot of like, it's funny to watch all these strands of like, we're going to make an incredibly compelling serialized genre show, but also that part that I'm not necessarily against, but that sort of lizard brain broadcast part of the brain trust of the show that is like, if we make Julian Nicholson this Machiavellian character who seems to be pulling all the strings, we also very, very much have to have her say early in an episode, what does she say?

1:05:58Andy Greenwald:At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I'm not a monster. Yes. And then also we see how her intimate sex life with her husband has fallen by the wayside since she got shot in the clavicle and ended the world. Right. Shout out to that guy. That's just like, that's a working actor's paycheck. He sort of sits on his couch I think because I don't really understand like if you're not Does everybody in the bunker have to have like a job that keeps society moving? Man, he's a plus one He's a plus one. Do you think he's like maybe I'll get back into my real estate career? Like do you sell properties in real estate is limited?

1:06:36Andy Greenwald:I feel like that would be but would you try to like? Keep some semblance like there's a whole nother level here. It's an emerging neighborhood it is near a prison technically and it is near a power plant. And it gets no fake light. And it gets no fake light. It sounds like my first New York apartment. I think, I feel like there ought to be, see this is the problem with a show like this. There's actually a lot more stuff they could be doing but then it would be a lesser different show. But I do think that if you got into the bunker as a plus one, which by the way, we've all discussed, I would be dead day one.

1:07:09Andy Greenwald:But if I did somehow manage to blag my way into like plus one, I feel like it would be incumbent on me to then become a surgeon you know or like learn something useful. Yeah I would try to teach English at the high school or whatever. That'd be cool. Cormac McCarthy died that day but also his books The Road is very useful in this circumstance yeah. Do you think that's why the librarian was an important job in the first season. Do you think they have all the streaming services down there just frozen at the moment they only have MGM Plus as a long time subscriber I can really help I can help people navigate the MGM Plus UX so two more episodes of this season it's just like they're doing a fascinating I think one more a fascinating and sometimes workman like job of like well we gotta keep these plates spinning and sometimes plate spinning is like Xavier spent three plus years and one and a half seasons trying to find his wife and then he has her for 24 hours and he's like yes by all means go have a one on one heart to heart talk with the man who tried to explode me with a bomb last episode that's right Gary and again it's just like that is the weird beat that maybe speaks to what you were saying you kind of like in Marshall's and I wonder what people's appetite is for it and what I mean is Cameron Britton an actor we like playing Gary the mailman a character who really I feel like has reached the end of his road in terms of like, but they don't kill him at the end.

1:08:40Andy Greenwald:They don't kill him, but also some part of their lizard broadcast brain is like, we need a redemption arc for Gary. We need to hug him. Yeah. Yeah. I could have moved on, frankly, like it's okay. You want Gary dead? No, we don't. I would have been like, that's, that's cool. And then she's like, I must go get my son. Yes. My, my bunker son being whose growth has been stunted. You know, you know, the one thing though, I will give it, uh, Oh, wait, I have two questions before we, before we wrap up. sure one not even question just really more of a comment i really like the thing where where terry's like how are my children how are our children and and she's like it's a two-part answer just like well he sort of is complicated about she's dating someone and then he's just she's like oh you're saying he's white about their kid's boyfriend yeah i thought that was funny wait where's the baby the baby he left the baby with the people of the train people with the with the the married couple the women who read to the baby and they're gonna get on the train and go to colorado they have to get the baby.

1:09:37Andy Greenwald:He was like, how do you feel about babies? Oh, right. Right, right, right. How are they going to turn the train? Are they going to lay the track to get the train to the baby? What was your other question that was more of a comment? You don't want to focus on train travel? It just makes me think about how... Guess what, brother? We're all going to get focused on train travel pretty soon. It's probably the only thing that's working. One of my favorite low-key details about our beloved Lonesome Dove is that after it came out and won the Pulitzer Prize and was a huge sensation, Larry McMurtry admitted that he had forgotten about trains.

1:10:06Andy Greenwald:Yeah. There probably would have been a lot of train talk in that book. Probably. But, no, the other question was just to your altered reality thing. I think that we, as a storytelling people, need to come up with something other than nosebleeds to signal supernatural or metaphysical shenanigans. Like scanning? Remember? Do there were scanners? The heads explode? Well, that would limit Julian Nicholson's participation in the current reality. It does make me wonder. We've seen so far... Xavier has nosebleeds right Link has nosebleeds mm-hmm did Jane ever have a nosebleed I mean Jane's covered in blood all the time but somebody was texting back in time during the Jane episode somebody's like texting the the Best Buy guy you gotta kill this baby right yeah I mean it wasn't text I think it was AOL instant messages yeah oh excuse me sorry I think we did a great job today we covered a bunch of shows nosebleed uh and we're gonna go back in time and do it all over again on Thursday, honestly.

1:11:08Andy Greenwald:We do the pit, something else maybe. Top Chef? Top Chef, that's right. Got anything else? No, I feel like you're parking the car. Yeah, I'm parking the car. Thank you to Kaya. Talk to you guys on Thursday. I can't wait.

1:11:30Andy Greenwald:Two teams, one cup. The primetime stage is set for the TGL presented by SoFi Finals Los Angeles Golf Club vs. Tigers Jupiter Lynx. Keep up! It's playoffs! Tune in Monday, March 23rd, 9pm Eastern on ESPN2, and Tuesday, March 24th, 7pm Eastern on ESPN and on the ESPN app.